Min/Max Boards
Gaming Discussion => D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder => Min/Max 3.x => Topic started by: Nanashi on December 22, 2018, 01:35:59 AM
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These tend to over cost some really specific abilities or be of inferior armor types and thus nobody will buy any of them. What are the useful ones?
Ones I know of:
Both:
Mithral Shirt: Weighs less than Mithral Chain Shirt by 2.5 pounds for some reason.
Luck Blade (0 Wishes): Luck Bonus and rerolls.
3.5:
Rod of Defiance (MiC): Undead have four levels less for turning
Hank's Energy Bow (Animated Series Handbook, but more likely that random mention on Wizard's website): Easy way to solve most of 3.5 archery's issues
Sunblade (EtCR): +1 Bastard Sword that counts as a light weapon and only needs short sword proficiency is worth 3000 GP.
PF:
Elven Chain, Celestial Armor, Celestial Plate Armor: Doesn't have PF's Mithral nerf. Actually are one category lighter for all purposes.
Shield of the Mage: Unlimited arcane spells of third level and lower, albeit a random one each use. Insane out of combat. Most of the SRDs don't detail it for some reason, but the old official one did (http://legacy.aonprd.com/ultimateEquipment/artifactsAndOthers/intelligentItems.html).
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Somebody at giantitp did a whole spread sheet of armors for the best cost + function.
Of course I forgot to link/bookmark it, and it's quite complicated.
I'd bet the dreamscarred guys build series, include when
to get on time the appropriate PHB2 schedule magic weapon.
Personally I prefer lagging that schedule for a golf bag
I'm not a fan of taking Craft Arms+Armor right at 5th level.
PsyRef allows it at effectively no cost at level 7.
But such a 'tude contributes to more caster supremacy.
Shield of the Mage = wow
Make a scroll with CL 5, and trigger the Shield for the spell.
Then psicraft check it, as to what the spell is.
Decide to probably write it into the spellbook.
Repeat
Profit
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Shield of the Mage only includes spells you already know. It could be a ghetto Scribe Scroll for non-Wizard/Magus selling spells known to a Wizard/Witch/Magus though
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Reads more closely = ahh right , nope.
Still , quite near a Warlock if you plan around the random well enough.
Heal nova and Buff nova, are do able.
Move the Combat "nova" to wands, gish it up,
some bfc is harmless out of combat.
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Reads more closely = ahh right , nope.
Still , quite near a Warlock if you plan around the random well enough.
Heal nova and Buff nova, are do able.
Move the Combat "nova" to wands, gish it up,
some bfc is harmless out of combat.
Crafters can have a field day with it. Noncombat spells are generally harmless to spam, and every free casting of Fabricate is a wonderful gift.
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Fabricate is too high level for it.
Nothing however says the scrolls exclude spells with expensive material components. No 0-3 spells with particularly expensive components (Anything 100 or less is pointless since False Focus could dupe those) I'm aware of beyond Sepia Snake Sigil and Symbol of Exsanguination (500).
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Fabricate is too high level for it.
Nothing however says the scrolls exclude spells with expensive material components. No 0-3 spells with particularly expensive components (Anything 100 or less is pointless since False Focus could dupe those) I'm aware of beyond Sepia Snake Sigil and Symbol of Exsanguination (500).
I see no level restriction.
This caster's shield always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
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Raptor arrows from MIC are probably up there. Everything-bane arrows that you can feel comfortable with enchanting with additional properties while still at ammunition prices for said enchanting are a great bargain.
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"... everything Bane arrows ... "
Yeah. That one has some history. Non-c.o. thought it was borkt enough, to warrant it's own warning in the various early Artificer handbooks. I think the version 3.0 guide (as in not 3.0e but 3rd version of 3.5e arty, probable confusion was intentional and never fixed 12 years later, my kitty avatar can handle) (ahem) ... still has that bit in there. Bane all the time doesn't change an Arty's tier at all, whichever interpretation you're using. It'd be like having a Recharge Wilder but on 1 power only , And you wouldn't pick Metamorph or Schism or Dominate or Anyspell or ...
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Pretty sure it's not Bane all the time unless you add Teleporting to it: It only returns once per round.
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Pretty sure it's not Bane all the time unless you add Teleporting to it: It only returns once per round.
Or have multiples. They're relics, not artifacts, after all. And even enchanting 6 of them is pretty cheap (not counting the 36k base price for the arrows).
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Or have multiples. They're relics,
Exactly. You have to expend a 4th level Spell Slot per Relic and the True Believe Feat allows you to use a Relic without expending a Spell Slot. So you need a Feat, 36,036gp, and five 4th level Slots to pull that off.
That's quite a bit for +2 to attack & an average of +7 to damage.
And it doesn't even work with Hunter's Mercy or Energy Bows.
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So you need a Feat, 36,036gp, and five 4th level Slots to pull that off.
Wouldn't that be 36,036gp and (a Feat OR five 4th level Slots)?
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They're relics, not artifacts, after all. And even enchanting 6 of them is pretty cheap (not counting the 36k base price for the arrows).
You have to expend a 4th level Spell Slot per Relic and the True Believe Feat allows you to use a Relic without expending a Spell Slot.
Wouldn't that be 36,036gp and (a Feat OR five 4th level Slots)?
No.
I also italicized the text for a reason.
This feat also allows you to use a relic (see relics, page 88) of the deity you worship.
This feat also allows you to use a relic of the deity you worship without sacrificing a spell slot.
The MiC is quite clear the Feat only subs for a Spell Slot, singular term and not infinite access, which is an editorial rules update that provides extra clarification compared to before.
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Thanks for the explanation.
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Thanks for the explanation.
Your welcome.
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Or have multiples. They're relics,
Exactly. You have to expend a 4th level Spell Slot per Relic and the True Believe Feat allows you to use a Relic without expending a Spell Slot. So you need a Feat, 36,036gp, and five 4th level Slots to pull that off.
That's quite a bit for +2 to attack & an average of +7 to damage.
And it doesn't even work with Hunter's Mercy or Energy Bows.
I don't see how you could come up with that interpretation and think it's even close to correct. The True Believer feat does not have you select relics to use with it. As such, it would apply for any and all of them.
Otherwise, you're saying that Weapon Focus (longsword) only applies to one specific longsword. Heck, you have a better argument saying Weapon Focus (longsword) only applies to one specific item rather than any and all longswords.
This same logic says that Weapon Finesse will only apply to one weapon. It's the same wording, after all, right down to the lack of selecting an item.
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I don't see how you could come up with that interpretation and think it's even close to correct.
And I'm not sure why you think Weapon Focus, a Feat that selects a single weapon type and applies it's benefit to all attack rolls of that weapon type, is a good comparison to hyperbole my statements out of context with a terrible example. I mean, how would you feel if I said your message claims holding four daggers lets you apply your Dexterity Modifier to attack rolls four times?
But I'm talking about no less than three rule entries that need to align in order to work. Relics which were written in singular form that says you need to tank a Slot to form a divine connection Relic and very clearly explains it's balance intent is per Slot. And how a Feat very clearly says it can be used in the place of one of those Slots for one of those Relics. And a third entry that contextually believes you're barely able to own one of them, let alone six at once, anyway and also very clearly requires that proper divine connection to even work in the first place.
And I get where you are coming from. You are trying to apply the Feat's benefit to each individual Relic because you think "a Relic of your Deity" means "all Relics of your Deity" and then trying to say a single nonstacking Feat can be counted multiple times. I simply disagree with that for what I feel is obvious reasons.
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I don't see how you could come up with that interpretation and think it's even close to correct.
And I'm not sure why you think Weapon Focus, a Feat that selects a single weapon type and applies it's benefit to all attack rolls of that weapon type, is a good comparison to hyperbole my statements out of context with a terrible example. I mean, how would you feel if I said your message claims holding four daggers lets you apply your Dexterity Modifier to attack rolls four times?
But I'm talking about no less than three rule entries that need to align in order to work. Relics which were written in singular form that says you need to tank a Slot to form a divine connection Relic and very clearly explains it's balance intent is per Slot. And how a Feat very clearly says it can be used in the place of one of those Slots for one of those Relics. And a third entry that contextually believes you're barely able to own one of them, let alone six at once, anyway and also very clearly requires that proper divine connection to even work in the first place.
And I get where you are coming from. You are trying to apply the Feat's benefit to each individual Relic because you think "a Relic of your Deity" means "all Relics of your Deity" and then trying to say a single nonstacking Feat can be counted multiple times. I simply disagree with that for what I feel is obvious reasons.
Relic Power: If you have established
the proper divine connection, a raptor
arrow also gains the bane property (DMG
224) against the targeted foe.
To use the relic power, you must
worship Ehlonna and either sacrifi ce a
4th-level divine spell slot or have the True
Believer feat.
That's it. Having the feat is all that you need, replacing the need to sacrifice a spell slot. It does not say "Have selected the Raptor Arrow for the True Believer feat" or any variant thereof. It's a true/false statement; you either have the feat and automatically satisfy the requirements, or you don't and have to sacrifice spell slots to satisfy the requirements. Using a relic of Elhonna does not consume the feat, preventing it being used with a second relic. You still have the feat, and nothing ever says that you are limited to a single relic.
But let's look at the True Believer feat and compare it to Weapon Finesse. I assume you agree that Weapon Finesse applies to all light melee weapons, rather than just a specific one, despite no selections being made.
True Believer
Your deity rewards your unquestioning faith and devotion.
Prerequisite: Must choose a single deity to worship. Must be
within one step of that deity’s alignment.
Benefit: Once per day when you are about to attempt a saving
throw, you can declare that you are using this feat to gain a +2
insight bonus on that saving throw.
This feat also allows you to use a relic of the deity you worship
without sacrificing a spell slot.
Bolded the relevant part, as the rest has no bearing on relics.
Weapon Finesse [General]
Prerequisite
Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit
With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special
A fighter may select Weapon Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.
"Allows you to use a relic of the diety you worship" and "With a light weapon..., you may use your Dexterity modifier" are quite similar in terms of syntax and meaning of the word "a." These are general explanations, recognizing that the singular will be most common, but plurals are a possibility that should be anticipated.
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Fabricate is too high level for it.
Nothing however says the scrolls exclude spells with expensive material components. No 0-3 spells with particularly expensive components (Anything 100 or less is pointless since False Focus could dupe those) I'm aware of beyond Sepia Snake Sigil and Symbol of Exsanguination (500).
I see no level restriction.
This caster's shield always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
This +1 light wooden shield has a leather strip on the back on which a spellcaster can scribe a single spell as on a scroll. A spell so scribed requires half the normal cost in raw materials. The strip cannot accommodate spells of higher than 3rd level. The strip is reusable.
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Edit: Nevermind
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Fabricate is too high level for it.
Nothing however says the scrolls exclude spells with expensive material components. No 0-3 spells with particularly expensive components (Anything 100 or less is pointless since False Focus could dupe those) I'm aware of beyond Sepia Snake Sigil and Symbol of Exsanguination (500).
I see no level restriction.
This caster's shield always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
This +1 light wooden shield has a leather strip on the back on which a spellcaster can scribe a single spell as on a scroll. A spell so scribed requires half the normal cost in raw materials. The strip cannot accommodate spells of higher than 3rd level. The strip is reusable.
We are looking at two different items then. The Shield of the Mage (http://aonprd.com/MagicIntelligentDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shield%20of%20the%20Mage) has no references to the strip's limitations.
I see what happened. One reference used them interchangably, but they are entirely different items.
Caster's Shield lets you hold a scroll in it.
Shield of the mage is a caster's shield that regenerates scrolls from your own spell list, and one could make the argument that it inherits the limitations of the much weaker base type.
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Edit: Nevermind
No idea who you were replying to or what you said. But if we're moving on I have a cool closing note.
The phase "Forgive me father, for I have sinned" says the same thing as "Liberate me Daddy, I've been naughty".
Also I think a certain someone might like to know about the Bow of Solars out of the A&E. It's a 100k bow but it does have a +5 Enhancement Bonus so really it's unique costs about 50k. Anyway, every arrow fired from it is a Slaying Arrow prompting a DC 20 Save or Die with each shot.
And who can forget the Manyfanged Dagger? Every attack with it deals quadruple damage and this effect costs roughly 30k.
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Found it :
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?490116-The-Budget-Armor-Online-Calculator-with-Shields-Amulets-Rings-Gloves-and-more!
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Also I think a certain someone might like to know about the Bow of Solars out of the A&E. It's a 100k bow but it does have a +5 Enhancement Bonus so really it's unique costs about 50k. Anyway, every arrow fired from it is a Slaying Arrow prompting a DC 20 Save or Die with each shot.
No, it has a +2 enhancement bonus, making the unique worth a little over +5 (or +91,200). The +5 is its Strength rating. Also, whoever calculated the bloody thing forgot that Large weapons cost twice as much, because it seems to be a 99,200 enchantment on a 900gp base and a masterwork Large mighty (+5 Str) composite longbow doesn't cost 900 gp (it costs either 1,000 or 1,500 gp depending on how weapon size interacts with mighty composite bows).
Nice job finding that, though; I was a bit bemused when I looked at the Solar entry in MM, thinking "and how much is that bow worth when the PCs inevitably loot it?".
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Sunblade (EtCR): +1 Bastard Sword that counts as a light weapon and only needs short sword proficiency is worth 3000 GP.
It's called the Sunsword, and it's not quite that good. Without the bonding ritual, you can wield it with short sword proficiency, but it doesn't count as a light weapon (it doesn't have the magic words "wielded as if it were a short sword"). 700 gp for Weapon Familiarity is probably still too cheap, but it's not as egregious as if it were a light weapon.