Author Topic: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.  (Read 7703 times)

Offline Amechra

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Alright, here is the build:

Human Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divinations ACF)/Red Wizard 5/Dragon Disciple 10.

All you need are the pre-req feats, and 3 Innate Spell feats taken at 12th, 15th, and 18th levels. I suggest Embrace the Dark Chaos, Shun the Dark Chaos, and Shapechange, for starters.

How does this work? Dragon Disciple gives you bonus spell slots of any level that you can cast, your choice.

Circle Magic allows you to cast 20th level spells (Thank you, free Heightening!)

So therefor, you can grab 20th level spell slots.

Now, what to use them for? Metamagic, Reserve Feats, Arcane Transformation, Draconic Feats (a 40d8 breath weapon would be brutal; or a +20 to saves for one round, to really save your hide.)

Or, my favorite, Innate Spell; it gives you the ability to use a single spell at-will, once per round, as a SLA (iirc, you still need to supply the material costs and experience). However, it costs you a spell slot 8 levels higher than the spell you want at will.

This is no problem here.

Once you get at-Will Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos, use all the bonus feats you have undoubtedly collected to give yourself some more Innate Spells. And some Extra Spell Slots, so that you have more room for Innate Spells.

Any nitpicks anyone can see?
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Offline mthor

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 10:52:05 PM »
I'm not sure that you could use circle magic to get innate spell. I kind of doubt it but I could be wrong. I do know that you need spells not SLA to use draconic and reserve feats.  Also even If you could spend the circle magic you would still need to know the spell you want. So you would need to get the spell off some powerful wizard Which means a DM will be involved and will have the ability to limit you if they want ( and they usually do)
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Offline linklord231

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 11:31:13 PM »
He's not using Innate Spells to fuel Reserve Feats, he's using his bonus 20th level spell slots granted by Dragon Disciple. 
Since this is Theoretical Optimization (we're in the You Break it, You Buy it subforum), we're operating under the assumption of a mythological, perfectly "rules-as-written" DM who will never intervene and prevent something that is allowed by the rules. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline mthor

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 11:51:44 PM »
hmm I see.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 11:52:32 PM »
Yeah, this would never fly in a real game.

A fact for which I'm happy.

Opinions on validity otherwise?
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Endarire

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 03:18:03 AM »
You're already level 12.  Not much to say there.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 08:05:43 PM »
So ... (thinks for a bit) ...

Cleric with DMM Heighten
takes Dragon Disciple 1 as soon as possible
needs some of your support structure
possibly squeeze in some early entry method
takes Nar Demonbinder 1 as soon as possible
takes DD2
needs a lot more of the details ...  :huh
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 02:13:18 AM »
Quote from: SRD
(click to show/hide)

Looking at this one way, it doesn't work because of the "as if from having a high ability score".  High ability score doesn't automatically grant 20th level spell slots.

Looking at it another way, you could dip cleric, archivist or whatever and add high spell slots to those....
"to any level of spells the disciple already has the ability to cast" + "must decide to which class he adds each bonus spell as it is gained"
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Offline Endarire

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 02:48:04 AM »
If you can SLA this, wish.

Offline betrayor

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 02:54:40 AM »
It won't work with dragon disciple because it gives you bonus spells as if you had high ability point but it would work with wonderworker(sp?) from BoED which does what you need.....

Offline Amechra

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 11:53:53 AM »
Alright, Wonderworker would work. And is probably a better class overall, since it is more of a dip. (There. I said it. BAM!)

Now, we're going to need to go Halruan instead... (Red Wizards can't be good, Wonderworkers )
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: *Yawn* I have Shapechange. At will. As a SLA. At 12th level.
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 05:34:12 PM »
Circle Magic allows you to cast 20th level spells (Thank you, free Heightening!)
So therefor, you can grab 20th level spell slots.

Now, what to use them for?
minor tangent ... the UA/SRD Recharge Magic
wants this and wants it bad.  The whole idea
is to get higher level spells onto recharge via
the higher than 9s level spells/slots. 
I'm shaky on the details.
Your codpiece is a mimic.