Author Topic: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?  (Read 12661 times)

Offline bhu

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What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« on: June 13, 2016, 12:09:28 AM »
I've been thinking about writing an rpg, and wanted to try something that hasn't been done to death, but not so niche no one would have interest.

So what could actually be a draw without being cliche (i.e. kill people and take their stuff).

Offline ketaro

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 01:51:02 AM »
WWE the Tabletop Game

Offline Kerrus

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 02:12:57 AM »
I've been thinking about writing an rpg, and wanted to try something that hasn't been done to death, but not so niche no one would have interest.

So what could actually be a draw without being cliche (i.e. kill people and take their stuff).

There are lots of things which have been done, and the trick is to find things which haven't been done not because nobody has thought of the elements contained within the concept, but rather, haven't been done because they include elements that run contrary to what people expect out of specific archetypes.


I mean lets take Wresting video games. They have your three basic features: Your dudes, your wrestling techniques, and which rules are are applicable and which ones aren't. Can you grab chairs out of the audience to beat your opponents down with? that sort of thing.

But there's something that every wrestling video game has lacked, something that nobody's ever really considered because it's just sort of an assumed thing. One of the big appeals of wrestling is fantasy. The thematics of it all, the crappy storylines they run, like that time Hulk Hogan died and then crawled out of his own grave to take revenge against the Undertaker. Or when a particular wrestler is blessed by god, or raised by an evil coven of wizards, or travels in time from the future to stop the cataclysm by defeating a specific set of opponents or whatever. 

And within wrestling video games, we have the view of the audience, who hears all that stuff, but visually just sees a couple hot sweaty guys tumbling around in a wrestling cage.


So what, then, if all that fantasy stuff was presented as real, and you made a game- video, or hell, tabletop, in which that stuff can actually happen. You can actually play as the revenge besotted revenant of a long dead Wrestler returned to defeat his arch nemesis one last time. Where you can actually be that time traveler,  come to save the worlds from the depredations of your evil foe.



Making new game concepts within what has already been done is about finding what people take for granted, or what they might try not to think about, what they put out of mind, and use that to make something interesting and evocative.

Offline ketaro

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 04:02:22 AM »
See? I was so hoping some one would run with my idea! :D
Because now I hella wanna play in some sort of high fantasy wrestlemania-like game.

Offline bhu

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 02:49:41 AM »
WWE the Tabletop Game

You have the WWF Adventure Game, Know Your Role, The Squared Circle, Wild World Wrestling, World Wide Wrestling, Lucha Libre Hero, Uncle Cucuy's Lucha Libre, Modern Day Gladiators, Zombie Smackdown, Piledrivers and Powerbombs, Colin Thomas Presents Rasslin', Luchador: Way of the Mask, Lucharan!, Kayfabe: The Inside Wrestling Game, Big Time Professional Rasslin', XSW: Impact, an expansion for Aberrant whose name escapes me, and prolly a half dozen or so more indie games.  At least 5 of those are pretty popular in that niche.

But since KYR is d20 adding races and adventures to it as a supplement wouldn't be difficult...

Offline Amechra

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2016, 07:19:26 AM »
Mobsters. The 1920s kind, you know?
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 07:52:02 AM »
I've been thinking about writing an rpg, and wanted to try something that hasn't been done to death, but not so niche no one would have interest.

So what could actually be a draw without being cliche (i.e. kill people and take their stuff).
Do you have any ideas yet, or anything set in stone? I'm working on an RPG now that is basically a heavily 3E-inspired d20 game where I try to dump the sacred cows I don't like, and create my own cosmology (and possibly setting). This certainly doesn't fall into the "breaking new ground" category, and pretty much nothing I've worked on has.

Are you planning on making a d20 game or something else? Depending on the type of game you make, that can help drive the mechanics you want.

Other than that... ideas that hopefully aren't too niche...
  • A zombie survival game... before the outbreak spirals out of control. You are tasked with killing the zombies and/or finding a cure. Would feature a research mini-game that's as important as the combat engine.
  • GTA: the RPG (with RPGs!). Might be too much like d20 Modern. If you came up with a satisfying car chase mini-game, this could be fun as hell.
  • Mad Max: Fury Road shameless ripoff. The satisfying car chase mini-game would probably be the core mechanic. Still, it'd be bad ass.
  • Borderlands shameless ripoff. I've thought about doing this several times. I love the IP and the aesthetics. I'm not sure if you could get the aesthetics into the game, or not. This is actually pretty close to the Mad Max: Fury Road ripoff game, but minus the solid driving mini-game, and with psionic girls.
  • Some D&D clone where your core classes are Ninja, Pirate, Zombie, and Cat-girl (or whatever).
  • Epic Meal Time! A game where bacon is a competence bonus... meh, probably too niche. :p
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Offline Vladeshi

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 09:39:04 AM »
Borderlands shameless ripoff. I've thought about doing this several times. I love the IP and the aesthetics. I'm not sure if you could get the aesthetics into the game, or not. This is actually pretty close to the Mad Max: Fury Road ripoff game, but minus the solid driving mini-game, and with psionic girls.

Actually my brother and I have done this one before.
We just changed some of the rules(and massive refluff) to Star Wars: Saga Edition.
If you look at some of the talent trees they start to look similar, and the psionic girls are just refluffed force users where all of their powers must follow a theme.
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Offline geniussavant

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 09:39:42 AM »
D&d has always been where I get my fantasy fix, but I've never found a sci fi game that I can really get into. Splicers is great but there is almost no support for it and the setting, while interesting, really limits a lot of the things I would like to do mechanically. Not to mention it's a palladium game's mega damage world ala rifts. Personally, I'm a sucker for point based character creation. Think d20 future's  mutations or splicers host armor. I was writing on a sci-fi game about aliens that got stranded on another world. Each player would be able create their own alien race using a point buy system. I kicked it sound for a while, but never really got anywhere without help. The goal of the game was to either find a way to escape the planet or to set up long term survival on the planet.
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Offline altpersona

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2016, 09:42:53 AM »
somewhat off topic / just bragging on an associate.


[hijack]
a guy in our local table top gaming group made a really great White Water Rafting game.

he needs to move it to production.

[/end hijack]
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 12:23:06 PM »
@OP
If you're just starting from scratch, two things that I think are consistently lacking are these.  A game with really rich social mechanics that are well integrated.  That can be almost any setting, but you pretty much never see that as a real feature of a game system.  And, a game that is truly mythic in a lot of interesting ways.  The thing that attracts me to concepts like fey or gods or whatever is that they have a core concept or bailiwick or nature.  They are bound by that and it helps define them.  Being the Dweller at the Crossroads or the Queen of Air and Darkness tells you important things about those entities.  But, even if you go to the White Wolf games that purport to do some of this, you kind of get nothing really that works and helps you develop what I'll call a personal mythology (for lack of a better term). 

Other than that... ideas that hopefully aren't too niche...
  • Mad Max: Fury Road shameless ripoff. The satisfying car chase mini-game would probably be the core mechanic. Still, it'd be bad ass.
I actually ran this in Savage Worlds, but adding a supernatural element as well.  Figure pretty much Mad Max meets Deadlands.  That was my campaign, and I was pretty proud of it.  Savage has pretty good vehicle rules, they're lite enough to wrap your head around at least, and we had a pretty good time. 

  • Borderlands shameless ripoff. I've thought about doing this several times. I love the IP and the aesthetics. I'm not sure if you could get the aesthetics into the game, or not. This is actually pretty close to the Mad Max: Fury Road ripoff game, but minus the solid driving mini-game, and with psionic girls.
I've always thought ORE, probably in its Wild Talents incarnation which is the version I know best, would work well for Borderlands.  Savage would work ok, but BL characters can do more superhuman crazy things.  Savage doesn't have quite the mechanics to allow a player to invent mechanics for their insane powers and guns.  It's really hard to build the beautiful awe-inspiring lethality of, say, Krieg in Savage. 

Wild Talents, as an effects-based system, does.  And, while I love M&M as a system, I'd want something grittier and faster than it.  Wild Talents has nice initiative and hit location rules that I think would simulate fast-paced gun battles. 


D&d has always been where I get my fantasy fix, but I've never found a sci fi game that I can really get into.
...
Scifi games do seem to uniformly suck.  And, for the life of me I'm not sure why.  I think there's a setting problem.  Fantasy is relatively well-defined, and while D&D has a very idiosyncratic take on it, we're all so familiar with it.  Scifi runs the gamut from Blade Runner to Lensman.  So, scifi games tend to be either appallingly generic, or have 1000 pages of setting material.  And, they do just generally seem to really suck. 

For scifi games, I tend to look at IP and source material that inspires me.  That helps limit the vastness of the genre.  I would kill for a great Warhammer 40k game (I find FFG's almost uniformly terrible).  I would also love a solid Dune-esque one (Fading Suns came out ages ago, and I think was kind of along those lines, but I don't remember loving it). 

I was writing on a sci-fi game about aliens that got stranded on another world. Each player would be able create their own alien race using a point buy system. I kicked it sound for a while, but never really got anywhere without help. The goal of the game was to either find a way to escape the planet or to set up long term survival on the planet.
Not to pimp Savage Worlds, and I'm not in love with the system although it does do a few things pretty well, but it sounds like it might be a decent fit for what you're aiming at.  Although I'd be worried that various subsystems like food and settlement building would bog down the game and make it feel like a boring tabletop version of Civilization.  At least that was my experience when someone did a kind of post-apocalyptic version of this.[/list]

Offline geniussavant

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 01:46:44 PM »

Scifi games do seem to uniformly suck.  And, for the life of me I'm not sure why.  I think there's a setting problem.  Fantasy is relatively well-defined, and while D&D has a very idiosyncratic take on it, we're all so familiar with it.  Scifi runs the gamut from Blade Runner to Lensman.  So, scifi games tend to be either appallingly generic, or have 1000 pages of setting material.  And, they do just generally seem to really suck. 

For scifi games, I tend to look at IP and source material that inspires me.  That helps limit the vastness of the genre.  I would kill for a great Warhammer 40k game (I find FFG's almost uniformly terrible).  I would also love a solid Dune-esque one (Fading Suns came out ages ago, and I think was kind of along those lines, but I don't remember loving it). 

If somebody could figure out a way to do so, they could likely hit upon a market not yet tapped.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 02:02:01 PM »
Exalted has integrated social mechanics (not very good ones, but...); so does Reign (kinda). On a different side of the crunch divide, Monsterhearts is practically built from social mechanics.

Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine is... pretty much what you want for mythic stuff. Crossed with slice of life. Especially once you hit the Miraculous Arcs - pick the right ones, and you can do stuff like chillax at all the crossroads at once, offering people dubious trades for smooth, smooth jazz. Or be both the Seelie Court and Unseelie Court, simultaneously - their legend is, after all, defined by their opposition to each-other.

It's terrible at combat in general, but that's fine - you get XP by getting closer to people and experiencing life.

Yeah. Do I have to start an Amechra tries to sell people on Chuubo's and fails miserably thread?



Edit: Sufficiently Advanced does transhumanist scifi really well. And people have used it to stat out everything from the Imperium of Man to the Culture to the Millenium Kingdom. And it has a SRD!

But yeah, scifi without a stupid amount of setting buy-in is really hard to find. Gives me ideas, though.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2016, 03:20:20 PM »
Sufficiently Advanced does transhumanist scifi really well. And people have used it to stat out everything from the Imperium of Man to the Culture to the Millenium Kingdom. And it has a SRD!

But yeah, scifi without a stupid amount of setting buy-in is really hard to find. Gives me ideas, though.
OK... I really want to play a game using this engine... I've been getting more and more into transhumanist stuff, and I just listened to the audiobook of Consider Phlebas. ;)
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Offline geniussavant

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2016, 04:03:15 PM »
I second that notion. Maybe I'll spend enough time learning the system to try and run one some time. I've got two pbp I'm dming note and I'm a player in two more, but we'll see what happens.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 04:03:38 PM »
Sufficiently Advanced does transhumanist scifi really well. And people have used it to stat out everything from the Imperium of Man to the Culture to the Millenium Kingdom. And it has a SRD!

But yeah, scifi without a stupid amount of setting buy-in is really hard to find. Gives me ideas, though.
OK... I really want to play a game using this engine... I've been getting more and more into transhumanist stuff, and I just listened to the audiobook of Consider Phlebas. ;)

That was an interesting read but super vague on rules interactions....

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 04:54:50 PM »
be a PopRock Star / Jackass / Mythology combo

Ruin hotel rooms , pee in mop buckets , pull a "peekachew" on the youtubes , scandalize the Grove Of Oghma , etc
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Offline Lordxeno06

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2016, 06:15:31 PM »
WWE the Tabletop Game

I'd have to agree with Ketaro (Hai Ketaro~!) on the Wrestling thing, especially after such a vivid description by Kerrus - but as you said there are already a number of existing ones that are pretty popular. If you can come up with a ground-breakingly awesome mechanic, setting, or gimmick that makes your game better than them, absolutely go for it.


Scifi games do seem to uniformly suck.  And, for the life of me I'm not sure why.  I think there's a setting problem.  Fantasy is relatively well-defined, and while D&D has a very idiosyncratic take on it, we're all so familiar with it.  Scifi runs the gamut from Blade Runner to Lensman.  So, scifi games tend to be either appallingly generic, or have 1000 pages of setting material.  And, they do just generally seem to really suck. 

For scifi games, I tend to look at IP and source material that inspires me.  That helps limit the vastness of the genre.  I would kill for a great Warhammer 40k game (I find FFG's almost uniformly terrible).  I would also love a solid Dune-esque one (Fading Suns came out ages ago, and I think was kind of along those lines, but I don't remember loving it). 

If somebody could figure out a way to do so, they could likely hit upon a market not yet tapped.

^This. IMO the two main themes of any Sci-fi setting are usually that there is some form of advanced technology (or alien race) in play, and the audience comes to discover how this interacts and changes the rest of the world. Blade Runner has the Replicants, Lensman has the eponymous Lens(and aliens), like a gazillion space ones have FTL drives, and aliens. Science fiction is still fiction, but it shouldn't forget its roots in realism - taking a semi-mundane world and adding something that could reasonably(sort of) exist, and then illustrating how its inclusion changes that world.
Rather than supplying an overwhelming amount of lore, rules-info, and options right off the bat(some is still good), and risking ALIENating *rimshot* the players, make it more of a "discover as you go" sort of thing. Too much content all at once leads to either skipping over important/useful information, or boring players to death. People do enjoy discovering things, and they do enjoy lore, but it needs to be at their own pace. For this reason, I cannot stress enough that I feel like any good Sci-fi needs to be a hexcrawl.

be a PopRock Star / Jackass / Mythology combo

Ruin hotel rooms , pee in mop buckets , pull a "peekachew" on the youtubes , scandalize the Grove Of Oghma , etc


You know what, I actually LOVE that idea! You have to balance out three things - your "Fun", "Health", and "Fame". Doing something that boosts one might lower the others, like drinking until you drop at a party would fuck up your health but give you a bunch of fun points. Your popularity is basically your experience points and the driving part of the game - making your fans love you. Your health is obviously your HP(so no explanation needed there), and the Fun is like your MP - you can expend it in order to pull off crazy fame boosting stunts at concerts or whatever, and do stupidly dangerous shit to EXPONENTIALLY increase your fun, at even MORE risk to your health. You regain health by doing boring shit like eating properly, getting enough sleep, and visiting the doctor, but they can decrease your fun and popularity.
Damn bro this is actually some really hot shit now that I think about it. MAKE IT A THING.

And now for an original suggestion of my own... Phoenix Wright, the RPG. Now I know what you're thinking - this is some boring ass lawyer shit, and its probably been done before... Well, maybe, but it could still be cool. It would heavily rely on having smart players, and a solid, prexisting set of cases to go off of... Actually I don't like this. Make the Rock/Pop star game bro.

Offline bhu

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2016, 10:55:49 PM »
I've been thinking about writing an rpg, and wanted to try something that hasn't been done to death, but not so niche no one would have interest.

So what could actually be a draw without being cliche (i.e. kill people and take their stuff).
Do you have any ideas yet, or anything set in stone? I'm working on an RPG now that is basically a heavily 3E-inspired d20 game where I try to dump the sacred cows I don't like, and create my own cosmology (and possibly setting). This certainly doesn't fall into the "breaking new ground" category, and pretty much nothing I've worked on has.

Are you planning on making a d20 game or something else? Depending on the type of game you make, that can help drive the mechanics you want.



I do have some ideas.  I've posted this here and elsewhere, and I'm collecting all the possibilities (I figure I'll post it in a few days).  Some ideas are d20, some aren't.

Offline bhu

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Re: What hasn't been done (or at least done well)?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2016, 11:01:32 PM »
@OP
If you're just starting from scratch, two things that I think are consistently lacking are these.  A game with really rich social mechanics that are well integrated.  That can be almost any setting, but you pretty much never see that as a real feature of a game system.  And, a game that is truly mythic in a lot of interesting ways.  The thing that attracts me to concepts like fey or gods or whatever is that they have a core concept or bailiwick or nature.  They are bound by that and it helps define them.  Being the Dweller at the Crossroads or the Queen of Air and Darkness tells you important things about those entities.  But, even if you go to the White Wolf games that purport to do some of this, you kind of get nothing really that works and helps you develop what I'll call a personal mythology (for lack of a better term). 

Myths i can do assuming I find the appropriate source material.  Social mechanics might not be the game for me to write as I have limited social skills due to the fact that I have long distanced myself from society due to the locals being monsters in human form.