Primal Scholar trick for the Spontaneous Wizard

[Nifft]

I wanted to comment on this handbook: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=474

... but I can't find any commentary thread, and I don't have permission to create one. So I'm making this thread instead.

Here's the trick:

Primal Scholar (Secrets of Xen'drik, p.127) is a 5-level PrC that has a class feature choice Secret of Power, which allows you to spend an Action Point as a free action to recover a number of spell levels equal to your Primal Scholar class level.

Unfettered Heroism (Races of Eberron, p.190) is a level 5 spell that gives you 1 bonus Action Point each round for 1/level rounds; if unspent, the bonus action point disappears right before a new one is given.


The Eberron-canon way to use this trick is simply:
- Take all 5 levels of Primal Scholar, and choose Secret of Power as one of your Ancient Secrets. You can do this by level character level 12.
- Learn Unfettered Heroism.

Round 1: cast unfettered heroism; use your bonus AP as a free action to immediately recover the 5th level spell slot.
Round 2: cast any combination of spells with spell-slots level 5 and under; use your bonus AP as a free action to recover up to 5 levels of them. This may mean quickened magic missile + fireball, and you only recover quickened magic missile this round. You can regain the fireball any time later today, and you can do this an unlimited number of times per day.


= = =

We can do this earlier than 12th level, of course, by mixing in other setting material. For example:

Wizard 5 / Incantatrix 3 / Primal Scholar 2 (character level 10) with Secret of Power can use her Incantatrix 3 feature to cast Persistent Unfettered Heroism once, and then use the day-log bonus Action Points to recover all level 1 and 2 spells all day.

There's good synergy between Incantatrix and Primal Scholar, so after you take all 5 levels of Primal Scholar (for freely recovering up to 5th level spells all day) you'll probably want to finish out Incantatrix, too -- and then proceed into Epic Incantatrix.

= = =

We can break it more horribly, too:

Wizard 5 / (filler 2) / Primal Scholar 5 / Legacy Champion 8 is effectively an 11th level Primal Scholar. That means you can spend an Action Point to recover an expended 11th level spell. You don't have those at level 20, but you will soon. Oh yes you will. If you finish out Legacy Champion (to get 20th level casting), then at character level 22 you can recover expended 13th level spells.

After that, you can take 3 levels of Supernatural Trickster gets you up to 15th level spells, but maybe you'd prefer to take Epic class levels for a while first, so you actually have some spell slots higher than 9th level.

[SorO_Lost]

Nice, technically still on vacation (work emergency drew me back) so I'll get it added soon.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Wow that's >>> +++ psi recharge.

Legacy Champ + Uncanny Trickster probably don't work, on a 5 level with no epic prog.
Bloodlines do work, so that's basically the same thing/idea.
(except the getting there sooner !)
Recharging 8s at ecl 12 , requires some PLZ to take advantage of it.
Could stagger levels 4 and 5 with another prc.


The class ability next to it (afb) is nearly as "power point" efficient as psi
and better than having to pay for augmenting.
Level 4 slot to recharge level 3 spell, cast at CL 10 ... versus
Level 5.5 "slot" to recharge level 3 power, -fested at ML 10.

That's got to be the next pick of the class.

[Nifft]

Nice, technically still on vacation (work emergency drew me back) so I'll get it added soon.

Cool. Ping me if I can help further.

Wow that's >>> +++ psi recharge.

Legacy Champ + Uncanny Trickster probably don't work, on a 5 level with no epic prog.

What does 5 level "no epic prog" have to do with the ability to extend class features past the end of the class?

Primal Scholar clearly says:

- "Spellcasting: At each level, you gain new spells per day (...)" -> so you get that

- "Ancient Secret: Beginning at 2nd level, a primal scholar's study of the secrets of Xen'drik grant particular benefits. Choose one ancient secret from the table below each time you gain a level. Add your class level plus Intelligence modifier to determine which ancient secrets you can choose. You cannot choose the same secret twice." -> so you get that, until you have all 8 of them, and then the behavior is not explicitly defined but probably you just don't get any more of those perks. This is fine.

- "Secret of power : Spend 1 action point to regain a number of spells (or spell slots, if you cast spontaneously) that you have already cast today. The total levels of the spells or spell slots regained can't exceed your class level." -> so if you boost your class level, you get more spell levels back. I *think* that if a new class advances the features of previous class, then you count that new level as a level of the previous class.

If I'm wrong about this, please let me know what contradicts it.

Thanks!

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Bloodlines will work with any level calculation (as PLZ defines it).

RAI , I totally agree with you.  And were I graceful I should have led with that.
Legacy Champ has this wording: At each level except 1st and 7th, you gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in a class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
I may be wrong, I should have demurred for more precise language from Soro, who certainly has put way more work into it than I have.
iirc there has to be an actual class level, for LC to work.
I do remember arguments about level 10 prcs needing an epic prog (and usually I'm the wild-eyed optimist on these things, I feel off ).

[SorO_Lost]

I may be wrong, I should have demurred for more precise language from Soro, who certainly has put way more work into it than I have.

*shrugs*

There is little direct rules in this area and it's a result of two rules interacting with each other. Sort of like jury nullification when you think about it. The closest opposition is Epic Progression but that has it's own limitations of use and generally when we talk about adding virtual levels no one tries adding extra Epic Feats or using Epic Attack bonuses either becuase through some kind of mutally agreed opinion we're not using Epic Progressions. Rather we're just trying to figure out what happens when a later published supplement's "+1 existing level" is applied to something, and there just isn't much text for doing that.

[Nifft]

Bloodlines will work with any level calculation (as PLZ defines it).

Bloodlines are so poorly written that a lot of arguments could be made about what they do. I consider them useless.

RAI , I totally agree with you.  And were I graceful I should have led with that.
Legacy Champ has this wording: At each level except 1st and 7th, you gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in a class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.

That's just what I want from the class.

- You gain class features => yay spellcasting +1

- You gain an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in a class => now my Action Point buys back expended spell levels equal to my Primal Scholar level, which is (5 + LC bonus). Yay that's exactly what I wanted.

I may be wrong, I should have demurred for more precise language from Soro, who certainly has put way more work into it than I have.
iirc there has to be an actual class level, for LC to work.
I do remember arguments about level 10 prcs needing an epic prog (and usually I'm the wild-eyed optimist on these things, I feel off ).

I don't expect to gain any Epic features from Legacy Champion, nor do I expect any kind of Epic progression from Primal Scholar.

I just want more effective levels in Primal Scholar, so the one big ability which keys off my Primal Scholar level gives me a bigger benefit.

I *think* it works correctly.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Well there went my 1 shot as devil's Dis-advocate.  I like it.


So ... a touch of early entry casting or fast advance casting, to take even more advantage of it?

[altpersona]

by 'early entry' and 'spontaneous', do you mean Beholder Mage?

[SorO_Lost]

So ... a touch of early entry casting or fast advance casting, to take even more advantage of it?

You can't early entry it. It requires two Skills to have ten ranks and per CAr CL requirements are based off fixed or Class Levels. You're stuck at entering it at level 8 or something with some LA.

But that doesn't mean you can use advanced casting, Ur-Priest is a good one to bring up. There is also the kind of cheesy idea on advancement, basically you take the first level of Legacy Champion before the intended PrC to advance and it gets hung up on the binary check (pick a class before beginning a legacy champion) and it feels pretty dirty to pick something you're not though.

The better thing to point out through is you don't need repeatable 9th level Spells, we've have a thread several years ago over how most of the combat ones suck anyway and you still getting 9ths irregardless. I'd say if you can hit 6~7 that's all you really need. It gives you enough room to metamagic the good blasting spells, quicken most of the good CC-effects, as well as open up the possibilities of free interplanar travel and such.

[Nifft]

So ... a touch of early entry casting or fast advance casting, to take even more advantage of it?

You can't early entry it. It requires two Skills to have ten ranks and per CAr CL requirements are based off fixed or Class Levels. You're stuck at entering it at level 8 or something with some LA.

But that doesn't mean you can use advanced casting, Ur-Priest is a good one to bring up. There is also the kind of cheesy idea on advancement, basically you take the first level of Legacy Champion before the intended PrC to advance and it gets hung up on the binary check (pick a class before beginning a legacy champion) and it feels pretty dirty to pick something you're not though.

The better thing to point out through is you don't need repeatable 9th level Spells, we've have a thread several years ago over how most of the combat ones suck anyway and you still getting 9ths irregardless. I'd say if you can hit 6~7 that's all you really need. It gives you enough room to metamagic the good blasting spells, quicken most of the good CC-effects, as well as open up the possibilities of free interplanar travel and such.

If you're interested in lower-level spells only, then there's another dirty trick you can use.

Sorcerer 5 / Chameleon 10 / Primal Scholar 5
- Silverbrow Human gets you (Dragonblood) ACF and Disguise as a class skill, but a regular Human could just pick up Draconic Heritage (silver) + Able Learner
- You must take Practiced Spellcaster (advancing Sorcerer) at some point before level 16, unless your DM allows your Silverbrow Human SLA caster level to count.

Nothing says you can only restore expended spells from the class that you're advancing with Primal Scholar. Now you can restore your Chameleon spell slots, which are more valuable per spell level because you get to cherry-pick from every PrC list.


== == ==

Another dirty trick is to use Ultimate Magus to pay for metamagic, and then Primal Scholar to recover both spell slots. This is nice because the slots will individually be lower level, so you can freely get away with 5th level spells buffed by 5 levels of spontaneous slot metamagic.

[SorO_Lost]

Another dirty trick is to use Ultimate Magus to pay for metamagic, and then Primal Scholar to recover both spell slots.

Kind of meh on this one. You can only apply one Metamagic and trying to use Quicken requires the Wizard to dip Sorcerer, eight levels of Magus, and four of Primal. Skip it entirely in favor of three levels in Incantatrix or something.

Chameleon is interesting through, a little more independent then using Dragonblood Spellpact too. All through a Battle Stalwart Dragonblooded Sorcerer with unlimited buffs and unlimited Arcane Strike certainly has my interest

[Nifft]

Another dirty trick is to use Ultimate Magus to pay for metamagic, and then Primal Scholar to recover both spell slots.

Kind of meh on this one. You can only apply one Metamagic and trying to use Quicken requires the Wizard to dip Sorcerer, eight levels of Magus, and four of Primal. Skip it entirely in favor of three levels in Incantatrix or something.

Yeah, plus apparently I'm wrong about how often you can use it:

You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + 1/2 your class level.

... so yeah. Not great.

Chameleon is interesting through, a little more independent then using Dragonblood Spellpact too. All through a Battle Stalwart Dragonblooded Sorcerer with unlimited buffs and unlimited Arcane Strike certainly has my interest

The main problem with the Chameleon build is that it only really comes together at high levels.

I think the earliest build that comes together would be something like... Sorc 5 / Chameleon 2 / Primal Scholar 5 (and then Chameleon ++ until 20).

That's not terrible, but it does delay your Chameleon casting significantly. You've got the floating bonus feat and 2 levels of Chameleon casting. Your one level 5 Sorc spell will be unfettered heroism (unless you take a Bloodline feat or Mother Cyst or something). Spam your Wings of Cover or Ruin Delver's Fortune every turn.

... but we're talking about Sorcerer levels and that just feels wrong for the Spontaneous Wizard thread ...

Okay, instead how about a Wizard who gets Bluff, and is also a Silverbrow Human (for Able Learner + Disguise).

How to get Bluff?
- Social Proficiency Enchanter (... requires being an Enchanter)
- Criminal Background (feat from City of Stormreach)
- probably Apprentice

So that gives us Wizard 5 / Chameleon 2 / Primal Scholar 5 / (then Chameleon ++ until 20), which includes 5 levels of Wizard and thus Spontaneous Divination.

And is actually on-topic, which is nice.

[Keldar]

Unfettered Heroism is the cheese.  Wand Surge [MoE, 51, CL-3rd prereq] lets you spend an action point in place of a charge on a spell trigger item.  Such as a staff loaded with Unfettered Heroism and your favorite Mnemonic Enhancer or Wish.  (Seriously, its a bad spell.  It gives out a per level resource on a round to round basis.   Every other similar effect amounts to a limited number a day and has other restrictions.  Not a 9+ a spell.  That's plain nuts.)

To ensure the pump is always primed, Prophecy's Hero [MoE, 50, Draconic Prophesier prereq] can get you daily action points.

[Nifft]

Unfettered Heroism is the cheese.  Wand Surge [MoE, 51, CL-3rd prereq] lets you spend an action point in place of a charge on a spell trigger item.  Such as a staff loaded with Unfettered Heroism and your favorite Mnemonic Enhancer or Wish.  (Seriously, its a bad spell.  It gives out a per level resource on a round to round basis.   Every other similar effect amounts to a limited number a day and has other restrictions.  Not a 9+ a spell.  That's plain nuts.)

To ensure the pump is always primed, Prophecy's Hero [MoE, 50, Draconic Prophesier prereq] can get you daily action points.

Yeah, absolutely.

You can also use Dragonmark Luck (EotLQ, p.111) to get one bonus daily action point, but you need a Least Dragonmark (or better).

These are more expensive than unfettered heroism but also significantly more sane.

[SorO_Lost]

Unfettered Heroism is the cheese.

Meh, it's just the most optimal choice. Like Raging Luck is limited to being an Anthromorphic Wolverine, or maybe lots of Everlasting Wands of Blood Frenzy. Heroic Devotion lets you create a bank of AP to burn but costs your higher level Slots. Cannith Wand Adept can create AP for an average of like 45gp/per but can't use any of the extra special stuff. And Prophecy's Hero is more of a divine thing since you get 1/2 your HD + WisMod per day but at least you can get free Empower Spell while using it.

Also not to be out done, remember Psionics can use AP for Manifesting too. Psychic Rush reduces PP cost by 1d6 so an Erudite doesn't even need Primal Scholar.

Edit - Added quote, also missed Luck.
All through, x4 Encounters, like 13 per level, it takes four days to get a refill of AP. You roughly get two per day anyway, more at higher levels or if you take Heroic Spirit.

[Nifft]

One more trick (but not as good) for Spontaneous Wizard: Priest of the Waste.

(click to show/hide)

Priest of the Waste [General]
( Sandstorm, p. 51)
You can swap out prepared spells for others that aid in exploring and surviving in wastelands.

Prerequisite: Access to the Fire, Summer, Sun, Travel, or Water domain.

Benefit: You can use a spell slot currently occupied by a prepared spell that is not a domain spell to cast a spell of equal or lower level that appears on the following list: cloak of shade, control weather, create food and water, create water, endure elements, heroes' feast, hydrate, protection from dessication, protection from energy, and resist energy.

1) I'm not sure exactly what "access to" a domain means. Does the Arcane Disciple feat meet this prereq? How about that class feature where you get a Domain power?

2) On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Wizard slots are not Domain spells, so you could spontaneously cast any PotW spell from your prepared Wizard slots.

It's not the most broken list, but it's nice to get access to off-list utility spells like create water, create food and water, and control weather -- plus access to protection from energy can be quite decent, as it's strong but situational.


The qualifications seem iffy, and the benefit seems worse than Spontaneous Divination, so this isn't a highly broken trick -- but I think it is a valid way for a character to spontaneously wizard.