Author Topic: Blood Palace (OOC)  (Read 71973 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #280 on: March 30, 2016, 03:12:45 PM »
It's not really teamwork if you're bringing a uber diplomancer into a combat-focused party.
That's actually the definition of team work. In D&D the ideal party is Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, & Wizard not Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, & Wizard. Each party member covers the others weakness's instead of everyone competing to do the same exact thing. I am now essentially the party's evil Cleric.

Last incarnation Neb was a Rogue with the stealth and trapping element and a to-D&D-scale burst DPS against FF targets. That failed colossally, and prompted you offering a split path DMing. Now I have something that can slap people with a rolled up newspaper that can deliver up Curse/Poison/Energy Drain/Ability Damage depending on Blood Charges and has an out of combat role none of us could do before that. And in it's meta-element pulls my focus away from even trying to keep up with the touhou class entirely.

And thanks to Alter Reality, it should have some buffs to offer since I really didn't use all that many on the character it's self (Neb seriously had more) and it's ominous that if I did make a mistake of undercutting my self I don't need a rebuild to fix it. It's also pretty tankish with God's three-quarter percent Miss Chance and some of those Maneuvers can be used to help lock down retaliating offense. Thanks even to it's commanding presence (sic bluff I'm the strongest!) it should initially draw attention to it instead of the rest. And if that fails, thanks to Ols thinking Maneuvers means Spells I can temporarily bring a character back to life long enough to wrap up the Encounter and for them to fish out a Raise Dead Scroll, we haz some healing now too. Which is something a couple people chimed in that we needed.

You act like I'm new at this  :P
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 04:00:44 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #281 on: March 30, 2016, 06:17:28 PM »
Can you stop going on about 'keeping up'? I looked at the rolling thread, ffs; you'd have no difficulty matching the damage output. That train of thought relies entirely on getting AoE-friendly scenarios for the entire thing.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 06:19:01 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #282 on: March 30, 2016, 07:42:55 PM »
Can you stop going on about 'keeping up'? I looked at the rolling thread, ffs; you'd have no difficulty matching the damage output. That train of thought relies entirely on getting AoE-friendly scenarios for the entire thing.
:lol

Back when we were making our characters I picked up a Manyfanged Dagger after seeing your monstrosity. The figures you just quoted as being comparable to your non-AOE damage is actually post quadruple the original intended figure. And Neb's intended favorite form of attack, which is also his highest possible damage, even afterward has a built in critical flaw of being utterly worthless against anyone that chooses to fall prone for a round simply because I picked up a Feat just to nerf it as such. It wasn't just a DM said yes at character creation or invent a story to say no in game, the DM activity had to answer the question of yes or no each time it could of been used. So wonderful point RD,  :clap

You probably just soothed a couple people that might have been worried I'd come up with some kind of super conglomeration by letting them know that even when I went nuts with Schemas for a ton of ability boosts on a character with Str + Dex + Cha to damage. Not only did I also voluntarily include a nullify but the original figure was only [W]+39. It's about point point higher than Venn's opening attack and five points higher than Ketro's except her character Morys has eight attacks to Neb's five. Of course, I did have a modest +10d6+Craven SA to bring Neb closer to that character but eh. If your asking if I already patched in a quick attempt to keep up, I did.

The problem ED is that like as Nanshork said. He doesn't want to play the game if he has to ramp up his character. So for me, Neb no longer exists and my new character doesn't even play the DPS game. He's a talkative healer slave taker attempting to grapple brain stealers for lunch. So whatever point you wish you could come up with Neb, the fact is I've already called the escalation with him a mistake before anyone did and the character was subsequently scrapped without any one even having to say a word about it. Me and you RD, are nothing alike.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 07:56:19 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #283 on: March 30, 2016, 08:21:42 PM »
Right, and that's with adapting a stealth focused character that wasn't meant to deal huge damage. Therefore, there's no reason to bring it up every other post like it's some super-difficult task for you to manage equalling my abilities when I'm not in preferable scenarios. Both things I did would be incredibly stupid with party members (or collapsible buildings) in the way and the more nuanced attacks don't get the huge bonuses. Not everything's in open skies with plentiful targets.

I'm pretty sure there's an insult somewhere in there, but I'm not quite sure what it is, so eh.

---

But really, if the damage is that big of a deal: Ghost 2/Eternal Royal 18 (in some order); Lunatic Princess and Immortal Smoke as schools. Damage gets more normal, get unreasonably hard to kill (if the idea is acceptable).

Kinda amusing that with the right maneuver choice my body is effectively in a coffin in my pocket and inaccessible. @_@
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 11:20:03 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #284 on: March 31, 2016, 02:24:05 AM »
Soro, for now I'll just point out mistakes in your new sheet:
-You need Divine Rank 6+ to learn Divine Battlefield maneuvers from levels 5 to 7.
-The god class does not allow you to create your own domains from scratch. Mind you, your character's portfolio can't have any domains at all if you don't actually spend a single class resource on it.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #285 on: March 31, 2016, 12:23:56 PM »
Without the 5th level Maneuver access to all the healing spells get wiped so I'll have to lose a level else where to take it. I can also drop speech/attack for domains, they are filler anyway.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #286 on: April 03, 2016, 10:45:45 AM »
So, what does the party actually need to round things out at this point? So far it seems we've got an Uber-Face and a Glass Nuclear Missile. Not much frontline assault it seems, but then those squidheads seemed to get the drop on us from a huge distance anyway so whatever is built should have both melee and ranged fighting capabilities...

So far, I've been looking at Hellfire Wyrm, Pit Fiend (or Balor), Xixecal, and Concordant Killer. The last of these seems to have the lowest defenses of my tentative builds, but it's use of wands and staffs could round things out with a bunch of buff spells.

I had also tried coming up with sneaky builds, but I'm not sure if that's the best route to go either. Such builds have included either assassin devil, invisible stalker, and even the Gloom (something I've been itching to play, but which would require taking a level of fiendish creature or half-fiend to qualify for this game. Same goes for xixecal and invisible stalker, but it's been easier to fit in to those builds).

Any thoughts?

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #287 on: April 03, 2016, 01:56:46 PM »
Any thoughts?
We fundamentally have a Favored Soul & Sorcerer for a party commit so far and you're fundamentally thinking Monk which should work out pretty well.

I mostly want to go with Xixecal out of your list. I'd take one Growth that way Eternal Glacier's 20% miss works against Mindflayer attacks and use the rest for more Ability increases (see faq) then remake up the damage loss using your 18th level Huge White Dragon mount that has 6th level Spells to kick out Greater Mighty Wallop. The reduced Size also avoids the Hide penalty, I'd grab a Collar of Greater Umbral Metamorphosis and a Wand or Child of Eberron pet up Camouflage for probably all the stealth you'd need. Remember, you have a free Blizzard following you around, anything further than 5ft away gains Concealment so while HiPS isn't a big concern the Hide bonuses are.

The Xixecal appears fairly defensive, DR 20, SR 40 (after vest), +20hp/rnd, immune to Cold/Fire (after mantle), and it's +20 Con. But it's also highly offensively it snags +20 Str before buffs, 4 Natural Weapons that all hit for +Slow & +1 Con dmg, you can also use your 2 Swift Actions to doublecast Cone of Cold for +40d6 more but it consumes 2 of your 6 uses. Recall the omgs over 50 Cha? Well that's a double edge because you'll easily break 54 Str (18 base, 20 class, 6 enhance, 5 level, 5 inherent) and your opponents will have a lot less than 50 Con. Hitting for probably 80 damage is enough to prompt a SoD whose DC is based off your Str and on failure utterly f'ing kills them so expect that to happen often and given that single target killing still has the excuse of "still weaker than our mage" you should have the goal of using it as often as you can.

Party wise the Xixecal offers no direct benefits as you'd expect out of the fighter guy but you do have a 12th level Sorcerer acting as your mount. Plus remember those blizzard rules I briefly touched on? You and you're allies are totally immune to it. So everyone else has a no-Save debuff of -4 Listen/Spot/Search & Ranged Weapon Attack rolls and the lovely mass Concealment debuff.

Feat Wise, since you'd be Large and your Dragon would be Huge you can ride it. Mounted Combat with a decent Ride Check could go along way to keeping it alive but don't forget to have it buff it's self. You're also a walking snowstorm vs 20th level casters in a campaign made by a guy whose homebrew hands out Resistance & FH/Regen like candy so take some abusive Metabreath Feats to compensate. A Two-Hander & Power Attack will make it pretty easy to hit KO ranges on your hulk smash (which has no size limitation) leaving the rest up for whatever. For your pet, I suggest the Snowcast line of Feats and focused on complimenting God style support.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 02:53:44 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #288 on: April 03, 2016, 03:21:53 PM »
That's certainly something to consider. Unfortunately, unless the Xixecal counts on its own merits for the campaign since it's an Abomination (described by the SRD as a grouping of the Outsider type in the same way that Demons are), then I'd have to wait a level for the extra swift action since I'd need to take at least one fiend level, pushing Toppling Mountain back an extra level.

--edit--
I think, based on the fluff of the original interest post, that the Xixecal and the other Abominations would count (I had also considered Phane, but time shenanigans are likely out the window) since the main call-to-action was for Outsider who are outside the typical notice of Thoon. The Abominations all count for one reason or another, though they're somewhat unlikely to have been involved in the Blood War. Still, one or more may have been swayed to one side or simply have been present, caught up in the action, or otherwise conscripted via enough incentive.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 03:58:01 PM by VennDygrem »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #289 on: April 03, 2016, 03:57:26 PM »
Ahh I didn't check the SRD just seen Outsider/Evil.

Well, Glacier Wrath could be skipped to. Retaliatory Word of Chaos while cool could accidentally slam anyone in the party who isn't chaotic since it isn't forced to one target via the bonus attack deal and the 18th level ability isn't all that great either. But it's 17th auto-escape anything is a serious ability to have, and it's party friendly since it ends the effect rather than selfishly making you solely exempt from it. Of course, that also means you can't abuse the crap out of it as well. :p

Anyway, that frees up three levels to dip around. Half-Fiend can be taken by anything and can be used to meet campaign requirements giving you two levels left to play with. Unfortunately Shadow Creature & Shade requires a none-outsider and you have way to much Constitution to consider ditching it for the Undead Type to set up entry. You could dig around for some Maneuvers, ECL18 recrunches to IL9 or 5th level Maneuvers.

Edit - So I looked up the Xixecal. The Class doesn't say you're an "Abomination" and nothing about gaining a Divine Rank in any of it's Class Levels. Outsiders (and even half-fiends) are not inherently immortal plus Ols's Monster Classes are built off a Base Race and only drops Racial Traits (which age/height/weight is not even a part of), you could shoot for saying you'll die of old age at some point and it's more accurate than it's not. Dip Warblade and take NetherWorld Gardener. As a 5th level counter you can exit reality even after rolls to avoid actually being killed by anything. And you can kick out a clone whom thanks to the shared resources can Full-Attack and renew your Maneuvers for you while you, well probably Full-Attack too because what else are you really going to do anyway. And if nixed meh, there are other Schools you can dig around in. It would have been awesome with Toppling Mountain since you can just sustain being outside reality while your clone does all the hard work.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 05:15:52 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #290 on: April 03, 2016, 08:45:18 PM »
So, what does the party actually need to round things out at this point? So far it seems we've got an Uber-Face and a Glass Nuclear Missile. Not much frontline assault it seems,

I've been forgotten again!  :sobbing

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #291 on: April 03, 2016, 08:52:14 PM »
... would tiefling/ghost/pretty princess get SorO to stop mentioning my character all the time? :rolleyes

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #292 on: April 04, 2016, 07:00:06 PM »
... would tiefling/ghost/pretty princess get SorO to stop mentioning my character all the time? :rolleyes
I can make no promises but it would free your character from being associated with the Youkai of course.

It was a almost sheer coincidence on the last go, Xixecal's auto-IHS reminded me of the Youkai's super-ominous Initiate of Mystra and Ancient Temple's 5th level shared pool one round clone reminded me of Love-Magic's 4th level infinite duration copy that has it's own Spells/XP blow on w/e you like. So eh, might as well push an appeal on Venn so he doesn't feel guilty over Xixecal's McUber smash.

I've been forgotten again!  :sobbing
Not entirely, :p

I'm just not that sure what to group your character as. Fire specialist, some melee, no utility, plenty of minions, a Fighter, nope definitely a Barbarian dialed up to 11? I see your Pain Mastery Feat there, +20 Str combined from your "rage" if someone were to take you to nearly 0 without being healed in between. You know I missed that before.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 07:12:55 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #293 on: April 04, 2016, 08:01:01 PM »
So, what does the party actually need to round things out at this point? So far it seems we've got an Uber-Face and a Glass Nuclear Missile. Not much frontline assault it seems,

I've been forgotten again!  :sobbing

Not much, but we have some! Honestly, I was focusing on those who seemed to be changing characters to some degree or another, and as far as I'm aware, you're keeping your's as-is.

I'm seeing some possible issues with Xixecal staying at Large size, as a lot of its abilities seem to rely on it getting truly massive (or at least, there's much less incentive to use them if you remain smaller). Is it viable to increase up to Huge size, or would that cause too many issues with cramped quarters? One of the benefits of going with something like the Hellfire Wyrm was that it can shapechange into any kind of Devil, which solves its size issue to some degree. A Xixecal is literally a force of nature, and doesn't really change for convenience's sake. It's definitely not one for subtlety, anyway.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #294 on: April 04, 2016, 08:05:55 PM »
So, what does the party actually need to round things out at this point? So far it seems we've got an Uber-Face and a Glass Nuclear Missile. Not much frontline assault it seems,

I've been forgotten again!  :sobbing

Not much, but we have some! Honestly, I was focusing on those who seemed to be changing characters to some degree or another, and as far as I'm aware, you're keeping your's as-is.

I'm seeing some possible issues with Xixecal staying at Large size, as a lot of its abilities seem to rely on it getting truly massive (or at least, there's much less incentive to use them if you remain smaller). Is it viable to increase up to Huge size, or would that cause too many issues with cramped quarters? One of the benefits of going with something like the Hellfire Wyrm was that it can shapechange into any kind of Devil, which solves its size issue to some degree. A Xixecal is literally a force of nature, and doesn't really change for convenience's sake. It's definitely not one for subtlety, anyway.

If you can spare two feats, you can count as your original size when convenient, whilst being a small or medium humanoid when you want.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #295 on: April 04, 2016, 08:12:51 PM »
I'm seeing some possible issues with Xixecal staying at Large size, as a lot of its abilities seem to rely on it getting truly massive (or at least, there's much less incentive to use them if you remain smaller).
Deceivingly Innocent Form to the rescue!

Quote
Unlike alternate form and change shape, you retain your full abilities and stats besides your old size modifiers (your natural weapons still deal damage as if you were your previous size). Abilities demanding a certain body part adapt to your deceivingly innocent form, usually by instantly changing shape when needed and then back. So your fingers would extend itself and become razor-sharp if you had claws, your jaw could extend itself to monstruous size if you had a bite attack, and so on. You can also now perform fine manipulation and speak if you couldn't before. You retain any equiped items as long as both your forms had slots for them.
All the benefits from being Colossal without the actual Size Modifier tied to it and you can still fit in small doors. :D

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #296 on: April 04, 2016, 08:13:48 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot about thone feats. Let's see what I can put together, then.

Though, Nanshork was also looking at Xixecal as am option, so if he wants to grab it up, I'll look for something else.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #297 on: April 04, 2016, 08:31:15 PM »
I think you still need Monster Lord to get the 'size X' bonuses, since the very first line of DIF specifies that you become medium or small.

Monster Lord leads to... fun. Colossal weapons squeezed into Medium, for instance.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 08:35:34 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #298 on: April 04, 2016, 08:42:40 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot about thone feats. Let's see what I can put together, then.

Though, Nanshork was also looking at Xixecal as am option, so if he wants to grab it up, I'll look for something else.

I'm waiting to see if everybody stops fighting before figuring out what to play.  Go for it!

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #299 on: April 04, 2016, 08:56:23 PM »
I'm waiting to see if everybody stops fighting before figuring out what to play.  Go for it!
If you don't pick something to give us something to talk about then all we have is to recycle the last conversation or to talk about the weather.