Great update!Thanks!
Baha asked a question that remains unanswered though:QuoteAyrk's statement about my talent being able to ID the monolith could be a trap through, formal request for a 28 ran on an possible Anna's in connection with Ayrk for review."
New one because the previous reached 50 pages. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign.It's a good sign according to the media. ;)
Why do you always want to grab Hugo!
Why can't you ever grab at Katherine!
Katherine wants to be grabbed too, Ammy~!
Given teleportation's potential to leave you miles out, seems like a poor choice.
Bigger question 'what is Hugo's excuse for not being grabbed and brought along'? Not that I'm against rushing in alone, it just seems prudent to grab him. :D
You're not there to grab! :p
I feel like I missed something about a magic staff in the IC thread, if it causes insanity by touching it then why haven't you tried loading it into a potato gun to drive your enemies mad?
I find the mental image of Amaterasu attempting nonlethal damage hilarious.Whoever said anything about "nonlethal"? Hugo is merely suggesting she aims for the biggest concentration of enemies at a time so it's easier to pick off the remnants.
I find the mental image of Amaterasu attempting nonlethal damage hilarious.Whoever said anything about "nonlethal"? Hugo is merely suggesting she aims for the biggest concentration of enemies at a time so it's easier to pick off the remnants.
1-Going "CONSUME EVERYTHING" is kinda bad for PCs, on the other hand is usually redundant for enemies.Hardly.
Speaking of which, Mao taking the staff with her to this battle?No time to put it anywhere right now. It'll be contained and sealed off for later.
I find the mental image of Amaterasu attempting nonlethal damage hilarious.Explosion Sign "Mega Flare"
XP to spareYeah. We don't get that stuff though. We level whenever it seems appropriate and encounters do not yield any XP. Only completing objectives. Sort of.
Not that you would ever actually craft anything. In a world that throws WBL out the door slaves can craft gold out of gold and you can candle up all the wishes and epic magical items you like. And in a world that follows WBL poof a King pops in and thanks you for slaying all of his enemies, please have this chest of gold and his children to marry. And if the DM realizes he should try to pick a middle path, well there isn't one. If you can achieve total destruction that's relative in high levels, you don't need powerful items to kill your enemies to begin with and all that XP goes towards making you unkillable long enough to use it.
Actually what many people miss is that WBL works both ways.I know, I'm pretty sure I was the one that reminded everyone of that back when I was first releasing the Artificer to my Enlightenment series and if I recall, you asked about the idiom of "eat your heart out artificer" over using Sacrifice.
Maia then reports: “Certainly, waste not, want not. We fully support maximum efficiency on the use of resources.:o
Everybody, name your top 6 favorite Wizard buff spells level 5 and under! :PDraconic Polymorph?
Six enemies (within 30, 40, 65, 75 and 105 115 feet respectively, divided in three pairs within 20 feet of each other and each pair 60 feet away from each other) and eighteen ship citizens in sight, in clusters of six at distances of 50, 90 and 130 feet from Mao in opposite directions.If each group is in opposite directions from Mao (assuming she appeared right in the middle), how can they possibly be within 60-ft of eachother?
QuoteSix enemies (within 30, 40, 65, 75 and 105 115 feet respectively, divided in three pairs within 20 feet of each other and each pair 60 feet away from each other) and eighteen ship citizens in sight, in clusters of six at distances of 50, 90 and 130 feet from Mao in opposite directions.If each group is in opposite directions from Mao (assuming she appeared right in the middle), how can they possibly be within 60-ft of eachother?
It wouldn't be possible even if they were all positioned in a straight line.
I noticed a small incosistency with Code 01's gunlash. The sheet says it's crafted of Pure Iron, but you're claiming it has the abilities of both Pure Iron and Pure Cold Iron, which would demand a special feat or ability.You're absolutely correct! I probably figured I'd copy the pure metal's ability in the description for reference and put in the wrong kind of iron. Fixed!
I meant they're keeping away from each other, more of a triangle than a line.That's what I meant as well. I only mentioned the line since they would then be as close as they can be between themselves (even if placed in the same direction), whereas placed within a triangle they would be even farther apart. For example, those at 30-40 feet couldn't possible be within 60-ft of those at 105-115 feet. Even in a line. If that distance is calculated in a separate direction from Mao at their center, they are even father apart.
Yay missing pending actions...
Kuroimaken: Can you decide on Hugo's buffs please?
Anomander: I noticed a small incosistency with Code 01's gunlash. The sheet says it's crafted of Pure Iron, but you're claiming it has the abilities of both Pure Iron and Pure Cold Iron, which would demand a special feat or ability.
Soro: You can either buff yourself before entering the mecha or after entering the mecha, either works, although you can't stack the same spell this way.QuoteSix enemies (within 30, 40, 65, 75 and 105 115 feet respectively, divided in three pairs within 20 feet of each other and each pair 60 feet away from each other) and eighteen ship citizens in sight, in clusters of six at distances of 50, 90 and 130 feet from Mao in opposite directions.If each group is in opposite directions from Mao (assuming she appeared right in the middle), how can they possibly be within 60-ft of eachother?
It wouldn't be possible even if they were all positioned in a straight line.
I meant they're keeping away from each other, more of a triangle than a line.
QuoteI meant they're keeping away from each other, more of a triangle than a line.That's what I meant as well. I only mentioned the line since they would then be as close as they can be between themselves (even if placed in the same direction), whereas placed within a triangle they would be even farther apart. For example, those at 30-40 feet couldn't possible be within 60-ft of those at 105-115 feet. Even in a line. If that distance is calculated in a separate direction from Mao at their center, they are even father apart.
can I Full-Attack for Bite/Claw/Rod_Shot/Wing/Wing/TailYou can indeed make the rod shot and use the natural weapons in the same full-attack but you wouldn't be able to convert the natural attacks into a stronger rod shot since they are not ranged attacks. Unless you're using one of the tricks to turn them into ranged attacks, of course. ;)
So 60-ft away from each other but only on the X and Y axis. Got it. On the Z axis they would then be anything but 60-ft. away from each-other and, to keep this pyramid working each pair would be farther from the civilians than it would seem, judging only by the distance each is away from Mao. Unless we also have flying civilians. The description that they were standing between Mao and the civilians made it feel like everyone was on ground level.
The ship's ceiling there would have to be pretty high though.
Mao sees that one of them didn't explode, rather being projected by her partner's blast! Burning and quickly disintegrating, they desesperately grab and clutch to Mao's plating, releasing a strange radiation that interferes with your systems.Who/what is "they"? There is one of the enemy units to move to Mao and is grappling her or something? (otherwise where is that unit now?) If so, AoO procs for entering her reach? Did any of it require an attack roll ranged/melee to clutch at the plating? I've a few counters that apply for that kind of stuff, such as Radiant Rolling Counter.
Something I'm wondering, is the miss chance some kind of concealment? Just wondering because it typically is.Not concealment.
Are these guys working on mecha-scale? Mostly for the purpose of "Combat between mechas and non-mechas", are they treated as mechas or non-mechas? (the Born to Fight feat not being relevant). Mostly asking since they seem to be androids on the pictures, and do not seem to be within anything like a mecha, though they still did some self-destruction trick typical to mechas so its a little confusing.They're not mechas but their weapons are powerful enough to fully affect mechas.
Is the strange radiation a supernatural effect?No.
Also...The leader unknown warrior that got all beaten up.QuoteMao sees that one of them didn't explode, rather being projected by her partner's blast! Burning and quickly disintegrating, they desesperately grab and clutch to Mao's plating, releasing a strange radiation that interferes with your systems.Who/what is "they"?
There is one of the enemy units to move to Mao and is grappling her or something? (otherwise where is that unit now?) If so, AoO procs for entering her reach? Did any of it require an attack roll ranged/melee to clutch at the plating? I've a few counters that apply for that kind of stuff, such as Radiant Rolling Counter. Is the leader the survivor of the second squad's attacks that did the radiation thing?
They're not mechas but their weapons are powerful enough to fully affect mechas.Time for some disarms. New stuff! :D
No actual attack rolls or movement involved, it's another suicide technique. They're already dead.They killed themselves? Mao cannot kill anyone. If she would kill a living opponent, she instead leaves them at -9 HP, stabilized and unable to take any actions (including killing themselves?). Any fast healing and regeneration they had is disabled for 3 days. Not killing is part of the whole point she has this ability. I recall androids are alive for technical purposes since that's how I could take Ancient Temple maneuvers back then. They're not androids?
I've been watching Getter Robo stuff recently. Naturally, chest beams are a valuable attack. :PIn your case, for everyone involved. No doubt!
They killed themselves? Mao cannot kill anyone. If she would kill a living opponent, she instead leaves them at -9 HP, stabilized and unable to take any actions (including killing themselves?). Any fast healing and regeneration they had is disabled for 3 days. Not killing is part of the whole point she has this ability. I recall androids are alive for technical purposes since that's how I could take Ancient Temple maneuvers back then. They're not androids?
Sounds good! Where is the "further down the ship" place (distance and so on) since Mao will likely be going there now if Amaterasu takes care of the remaining two unknown warriors.Some 100 feet right from Mao's current position.
Correct.QuoteThey're not mechas but their weapons are powerful enough to fully affect mechas.Time for some disarms. New stuff! :D
I suppose the self-destructs led to no bits of the unknown warriors being left behind to loot?
On a related thought process, when we have a mecha, can we self destruct? As in, kill ourselves without having to go through the trouble of attacking yourself with an automatic critical hit and willingly failing the Fort save against massive damage. No special damage to stuff around or anything. You just self-destruct the mecha to die. Can every mecha do something like this and if so what's the action to do it?Unless you took Glory in Death or have some suicide class feature, mechas don't have self-destruct mechanisms by default. Critically kill yourself it is (http://gallery.zeonic-republic.net/displayimage.php?album=117&pos=129).
Yes, they killed themselves. Immediate actions so they could be triggered before being knocked out.QuoteNo actual attack rolls or movement involved, it's another suicide technique. They're already dead.They killed themselves? Mao cannot kill anyone. If she would kill a living opponent, she instead leaves them at -9 HP, stabilized and unable to take any actions (including killing themselves?). Any fast healing and regeneration they had is disabled for 3 days. Not killing is part of the whole point she has this ability.
I recall androids are alive for technical purposes since that's how I could take Ancient Temple maneuvers back then.More like androids have an expiration date instead of being flawless anti-entropy engines (note to self: add fuel/energy charges to androids. Won't be more penalizing than fleshies needing to eat).
They're not androids?You don't know that yet. :smirk
Also, just so you know before it comes up, I've got the Chinese Star maneuver Catching a White Feather that allows me to counter with a disarm/sunder when I'm attacked in melee, but only before knowing the result of the enemy's attack roll. Since that is kinda difficult to work with on PbP, I suppose I should point out that if Mao is attacked in melee by some kind of fancy weapon or by someone who deals special negative effects with one, I might be tempted to have her use that counter before knowing whether it hits her or not.So can I assume that if Mao doesn't know a weapon inflicts special negative effects before being hit, she won't try to counter, correct?
AAAAMMMMMAAATTTERRRAASSSUUUU BBBEEEEAAAAMMMM!!!Quote from: RDI've been watching Getter Robo stuff recently. Naturally, chest beams are a valuable attack. :PIn your case, for everyone involved. No doubt!
So can I assume that if Mao doesn't know a weapon inflicts special negative effects before being hit, she won't try to counter, correct?Absolutely! Though if the weapon suddenly starts glowing ominously or something similar it may be tell-tale enough to warrant that kind of caution.
Anomander, just to check, where are the dolls getting pseudo-evasion? Because I don't seem to find it in your character sheet and Puppeteer Theater doesn't grant it, only the higher level Doll Judgement stances.Ring of Evasion
Also Mysteryous Millenium's Revival specifically only works on allies, which I would say somebody else who's blown themselves up just to hinder you wouldn't qualify for.Its all very relative. We can choose a rock or a gust of wind to be our enemy for all practical purposes so it would be the same for allies. That unknown warrior is probably an ally of Mao despite it all. It just doesn't know it yet/anymore. Mao is very, very nice and very trusting in the better side of morality. Goodness is reaches out to all but the nonredeemable, and even then sometimes its light shines through.
'Doll's war specifically only works against opponents/enemies.Mao doesn't consider people to be her enemies unless they represent everything she is against but they are adversaries if they attack her, or otherwise oppose her for as long as they do. When they no longer oppose her, they are no longer opponents.
You had already declared them as non-allies this very round.' is not a valid dice string!
Yet even in your IC talk you just called them enemies, despite only two of them having attacked you so far.Of course. They are still opposing her.
And Mao didn't even bother to talk/sense motive, so she clearly never considered the chance that they're charmed/dominated. Deploy drones. Maximum beatdown. Surrender is not an option.Naturally! They saw her, then attacked her without saying anything while the others were attacking civilians.
And who knows, maybe they wanted to die. What if the unknown warriors have loved ones that will be executed in gruesome painful ways if they let themselves be captured by the Android Administration?That's right! They may really need help! Their loved ones could be in danger but the civilians they are currently attacking are in an immediately less theoretical danger of death than these possible loved ones, so they'll take priority for now. Basic peacekeeping procedures. She'll see about those possibly endangered loved ones once they are informed on the matter, and if the damage has already been done, it'll at least perhaps help them to nail whose responsible to put a stop to more androids being forced to kill against their wishes. They ended a war for this already.
Plus, while declaring somebody an enemy only demands one side to do it, declaring somebody an ally is a two-way affair. Unless you want to claim enemies can declare themselves allies to benefit from the party's ally-only area effects and stuff.They can certainly declare themselves allies to provide effects with benefits. If they want to receive them they have to be acknowledged as allies by the one providing the beneficial effect since the effect that relies on the perception of the one doing the effect, not the one receiving it. If the ability requires the target to be willing, that's a different story.
It's very similar to how it went down with Arryk.I was thinking the same exact thing but for literately none of the reasons you posted.
It's very similar to how it went down with Arryk.I was thinking the same exact thing but for literately none of the reasons you posted.
At least this time I get to eat the popcorn.
The unknown warriors do not have a common cause or purpose with Mao.That's what I'm saying. We don't know for sure. They could be allies with an ill effect making them hostile. They probably are.
They are not an organism bearing an evolutionary relationship to MaoThey look pretty android-like to her.
He also said being an ally is a two-way street. If you are their enemy, they are not your ally.Not necessarily. Case of the dominated ally in point.
We can literally just buy a raise dead later for chump change. Or, Mao apparently has background access to free clones to be made of unwilling subjects sooooo...........Doesn't work. Raise dead needs a body and cloning requires at least a limb. They self-destruct so there is nothing left to use. This is why this could be important.
Besides, they just look like humanoid-shaped robot drones to me. Not really much at all like how the Android race is described in the SRW Races thread. They're more likely more closely related to your Dolls than anything else.They have a classic Android appearance as featured in PSO, which is the campaign theme were are playing. So they look very much like androids.
O'rrly?QuoteThe unknown warriors do not have a common cause or purpose with Mao.That's what I'm saying. We don't know for sure. They could be allies with an ill effect making them hostile. They probably are.
Again, Mao suspects they were tinkered with and is trying to save at least one of them. Android fellowship.QuoteThey are not an organism bearing an evolutionary relationship to MaoThey look pretty android-like to her.
I'm not changing the definition, only stating that this definition applies in her perception of the unknown warrior. Another victim that needs saving.
For the same reason that, in a character's mind such as your interpretation of the crusader, someone can see a rock or another harmless piece of something and see it as something that fits the definition of an enemy which, if you look it up, a rock doesn't exactly fit into.
Just need to know what's beyond further into the ship to update my turn's remaining actions.In her current delirious state Mao sees pink bunnies playing in a flower field under a purple sun.
I'm surprised I seem to be the only that sees this coming as a very likely scenario given one of Osle's recurring themes in DMing is the taint and transformation of stuff into evil versions. Always makes a good story.
The only way "ally" could apply to the unknown warriors is if Mao has somehow become schyzophrenic and unable to tell reality from dream anymore. Allies=/=victimsOr believes that they are probably fellow Android Administration representative that went in the first wave of colonists that have been tempered with. Which she does. Which is also very possible. Androids willingly going against the AA's interests? What a strange thought.
By definition, "enemy" can indeed apply to non-sentient things. And rocks do happen to be the oldest weapon in existence.There we go. The one line that can somewhat be interpreted to justify abusing the targeting system. Because it needs abusing, right?
In her current delirious state Mao sees pink bunnies playing in a flower field under a purple sun.I don't mind Yoshiko being in her own little world since she didn't attack anyone yet but I see there's no point to it since solid proof of fellowship is required to see it as an ally. Unknown is still dead. Moving on.
Also, any official/homebrew rules applying for targeting body parts to sever them?Ambush Feats (http://alcyius.com/dndtools/feats/categories/ambush/index.html).
Good spells! How are you reaching the battlefield?
@Osle: I can read their positions two ways;
-Three groups, each with 2 unknown warriors and 1 unknown marauder
-Four groups (since there are four groups of civilians), three with a couple of unknown warriors and one with a trio of unknown marauders.
Also, are they bunched within 10-feet of each other like the formation of the previous squad of u.w., with each group a notable distance from the other groups?
And I'll note that I'm not sure what the AC of a drone/doll is supposed to be. They use the initiator's saves but their AC isn't clear beyond size+dex modifiers and how the initiator's buffs affect them.
I don't expect them to last more than one round anyway but that's always been part of the strategy.
@Osle: I can read their positions two ways;Four groups.
-Three groups, each with 2 unknown warriors and 1 unknown marauder
-Four groups (since there are four groups of civilians), three with a couple of unknown warriors and one with a trio of unknown marauders.
Also, are they bunched within 10-feet of each other like the formation of the previous squad of u.w., with each group a notable distance from the other groups?20 feet from each other but otherwise yes.
And I'll note that I'm not sure what the AC of a drone/doll is supposed to be. They use the initiator's saves but their AC isn't clear beyond size+dex modifiers and how the initiator's buffs affect them.Just dex and size mod for Puppeteer theater since nothing else is mentioned, higher level stances grant some natural armor. Only offensive buffs apply.
Edit: Too busy to finish the post. I'll try to get it in tomorrow along with all the rolls sorted out.-Use your own size bonus to attacks, not the doll's.
And now suddenly I'm not sure how "using your stats" interacts with the drone's size. They fight with fine-sized weapon off a diminutive mecha whose size doesn't affect the weapon damage size. "Using your stats" seem to imply that the attacks would not benefit from the drones' size bonus to attacks, using your own instead. The weapon damage would be as per the size of the weapon still. That's how I've been doing it at least. Not sure if them being a mecha's maneuvers using her stats qualify their weapons as being mecha weapons for most purposes (damage is treated as force damage and so on). The weapons are technically tiny (instead of small) since the mecha is diminutive (while Mao is medium).
Oh, I've also just noticed your rolled crit confirms for me. I already rolled them and had noted what the result was in the action block. It was the last roll I had done in that post.Noted, thanks for pointing it out. So many rolls...
Excuse me while I attempt to approach with stealth-like reflexes..............I'm in a Stance that turns me into a giant flaming ball of death but because it grants Concealment I can hide inside it so all you see it pretty much a flaming projectile zipping around shooting things which is pretty cool.
It's a recurring motif not limited to Greek myth.*ahem*
People really like stealing fire.
I'm actually pretty sure that's a mistranslation brought on by the common thief of fire motif among the various pentathlonsIt's actually mostly found in the more nomadic / tribal religions. By the time Judaism came about over three thousand years ago it was getting pushed towards knowledge taught to humanity. Like I consider Greek to be influenced by Norse, through I'm sure Norse also has elements from the Greeks, and over on the Norse side Loki is the trickster god of fire with no proven source of influence. But it's not that he stole fire but rather he was fire and shady enough to steal everything you owned. Claiming he stole fire and Odin's birds are tearing him apart as punishment is the exact thing I'd expect things to get changed to by word of mouth and that may have very well led to Prometheus's story which also explains how he is a Titian opposed to another Olympian. Food for thought.
China actually had indirect contact with (and knowledge of) Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations), interestingly.
I was looking at mythologies from different continents. It keeps showing up.On the same token, your baseless counter argument is utterly meaningless since it doesn't cites resources either.
Zero research with the assumption of a mistranslation that would actually make it different from the norm isn't a good baseline argument.
I just realised that nobody in this entire thing (Super Robots especially) has any sort of finishing attack ability. This seems a little off.I think we can sort of do those using spirits. If it kills the enemy you can then say "yeah, that was my finishing attack".
Common themes shared by cultures that have never been proven to contact one another historically is, at least in theory, easily explained by neural evolution.
Interesting fact: in spite of having been split across vast expanses of different continents, mankind's brain patterns have evolved more or less exactly the same - different cultures with vastly different needs developed much the same technologies as they improved, with different techniques overall and different styles owing to their basic environments and how their cultures shaped up. They did, however, share several traces in common, whether in those technologies themselves or their cultural beliefs. That's why you have big firebirds both in ancient China and ancient Greece, even though neither civilization has, to our knowledge, ever contacted the other until relatively recently. Both also represent rebirth. That's also why Chinese and British dragon myths are different - both are big-ass lizards, possibly owing to the fact that lizards are reptiles and therefore often poisonous, though both also have different conotations, because of how each sees nature as a culture.
But in either case such similarities could be conceivably explained by identical evolutive paths insofar as our brains are concerned - much like babies have distinct steps in their growth patterns, like that age where they try to put everything in their mouths.
A bit late to this discussion but I would like to point out that in America there were multiple highly developed civilizations with neither the wheel or iron working.Technically that has to for with the the types of animals that could be domesticated. North America had llamas which have very poor work loads which means no beasts of burden for agriculture or transportation innovation. And one of the side effects of that is not needing a heavy material's durability that can withstand such an animal.
Still wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.So far the entire place looks immense. In every direction.
@ketaro: Slick. That natural 20 amazes me. :clap
QuoteStill wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.So far the entire place looks immense. In every direction.
@osle: Just for clarity, wouldn't the drones have seen that hiding marauder get of out hiding before it attacked? She has drones in opposite sides of the area. Especially considering Mao cannot be flatfooted.The marauder was taking care to hide out of all evident drone's lines of sight, Katherine spotted it because she herself was sneaking.
QuoteStill wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.So far the entire place looks immense. In every direction.
MU Gigantic. 128 times Medium. 768'/234m is always going to be a question of 'will it fit', as I'm pretty sure Deceptively Innocent Form/Monster Lord don't transfer over to mecha. :lmao
The first war chariots in history were pulled by donkeys. And iron/bronze was first used for cutting tools long before anyone started to think about adding metal acessories to big pets.A bit late to this discussion but I would like to point out that in America there were multiple highly developed civilizations with neither the wheel or iron working.Technically that has to for with the the types of animals that could be domesticated. North America had llamas which have very poor work loads which means no beasts of burden for agriculture or transportation innovation. And one of the side effects of that is not needing a heavy material's durability that can withstand such an animal.
And working out metalworking is a matter of luck.Perhaps, how the hell people figured out the proccess to start with is a fascinating field of study, but it still supports my point. Some civilizations developed smithing millennia ago, while others didn't until the smithing civilizations arrived and stabbed/diseased them all millennia later.
Soro:Baha can move into the next room to unleash fire breath.Sweet and updated.
The first war chariots in history were pulled by donkeys. And iron/bronze was first used for cutting tools long before anyone started to think about adding metal acessories to big pets.Donkeys != llamas and even the North American Indianans around Mexico were familiar with bronze working. But the southerns couldn't produce enough agriculture so they turned to cannibalism & ritual sacrifice to push their population numbers down.
The marauder was taking care to hide out of all evident drone's lines of sight, Katherine spotted it because she herself was sneaking.I'm not sure I get the logic. When you're moving out of hiding you need to roll the usual hide n' move silently checks. If you attack you're under the sniping hide penalties.
The second hide check for sniping is specifically only rolled after the shot is resolved. Thus targets eliminated by the attack do not get a second spot opportunity.QuoteThe marauder was taking care to hide out of all evident drone's lines of sight, Katherine spotted it because she herself was sneaking.I'm not sure I get the logic. When you're moving out of hiding you need to roll the usual hide n' move silently checks. If you attack you're under the sniping hide penalties.
And even then you'd see the spiraling attack go out of nowhere to destroy you, probably seeing where it came from even if you cannot see the source itself since the attack isn't unseen. The sneaky attack that kills you without you even knowing what happened would require being flat-footed, no?
Just for future reference.
Also, to get a better idea of what happened, the drone did 5 attacks on all the mobs of marauders, minus the one hiding, or perhaps they had reformed back to normal in-between drone waves since they splitted off again. Or when they split they got destroyed since the hiding marauder respawned them? Now there is a new batch of marauders but it isn't clear if they got respawned back into non-mob form like maybe before or were already in mob form?
Not being flat-footed means that you get to keep Dex bonus to AC and immunity to sneak attacks, super automatic reflexes that do not rely on sight and stuff. Still does not allow free spot rolls.Little ambiguous there and it sounds like you're going down the spot path.
Still does not allow free spot rolls.Merely going out of hiding would, though. The only reason a spot check wasn't rolled to begin with was because he had total concealment conferred by the terrain, making him impossible to see. Moving to get line of effect for his attacks makes him spot-table before his movement is even completed. That applies before the attack, and the sniping.
Mob form is never mentioned in my posts, plus they're only 3-4, not enough to get the mob template.My bad. The description made it seem like that was the case.
isn't it moot to argue now?It's for future reference. Don't want to wonder how things are meant to go next time someone wants to use stealth tactics. If they can abuse it like that so can we.
Quoteisn't it moot to argue now?It's for future reference. Don't want to wonder how things are meant to go next time someone wants to use stealth tactics. If they can abuse it like that so can we.
It rolled well enough for Mao to auto-fail spot at first. Then rolled badly enough for Katherine (and Mao) to auto-succeed when taking in account the -20 sniping penalty.QuoteStill does not allow free spot rolls.Merely going out of hiding would, though. The only reason a spot check wasn't rolled to begin with was because he had total concealment conferred by the terrain, making him impossible to see. Moving to get line of effect for his attacks makes him spot-table before his movement is even completed. That applies before the attack, and the sniping.
It was supposed to be a more sci-fi version of "turn to fine dust". And mob template has an upper member limit some 4 orders of magnitude lower.QuoteMob form is never mentioned in my posts, plus they're only 3-4, not enough to get the mob template.My bad. The description made it seem like that was the case.
"Then the fallen unknown marauders deconstruct themselves into what appears millions of minuscle bots"
"But again the marauders simply deconstruct themselves into millions of minuscle bots again"
Millions make a pretty impressive mob/swarm. I felt like they were still in the fight in the form of a big group of mini-bots.
"That's Grak Xiow, worked at a wasteland junkyard in Ragol. Suspected to be connected to 37 illegal transactions of Class-X forbidden items, but we could never gather enough evidence to imprison him."I've been meaning to ask, would that imply that he was among the first wave of pioneers on Ragol... the one that got wiped out? If so he's actually a survivor of the incident.
Area B is the current known fight. Area B has Mao's Dolls (But I believe not Mao as she is in Area A still?). Katherine & Ammy also just moved in to Area B and engaged the foes there. While the results of our actions haven't been verified by Os posting yet (because it is still our turn), it is incredibly likely that Area B is clear of hostiles after Katherine's & Ammy's assaults and Baha's breath weapon which blanketed most of Area B and no doubt cleaned up what was left.
I could see funnels collectively forming an energy net to grapple or capture creatures.Did you picture Guardians of the Galaxy after reading Ols's post like I did?
I could see funnels collectively forming an energy net to grapple or capture creatures.
I could see funnels collectively forming an energy net to grapple or capture creatures.Did you picture Guardians of the Galaxy after reading Ols's post like I did?
OK, I have NO idea what my grapple mods are, so I'm going to roll the dice on the rolling thread and hope for the best.*looks*
Stop touching me Elmo 1 Rolled 1d20 : 5, total 5Umm... Thanks to relieving the dice God's fury for me?
Is this what sexual harassment feels like? 1 Rolled 1d20 : 4, total 4
Stop touching me Elmo 2 Rolled 1d20 : 20, total 20
Is this what sexual harassment feels like? 2 Rolled 1d20 : 1, total 1
"A mecha ignores size penalty to AC and attacks against non-mecha oponents. Such enemies don't gain size bonus to attacks and AC against mecha targets."
Giant robots inevitably have weak joints and vital systems to be targeted, and their targeting systems have trouble landing a clean blow on much smaller opponents.
As a rule, the mecha's grapple size modifiers in mecha scale are the same when applied on normal scale.A medium mecha still counts as a colossal creature when in "normal" scale and would gain the +16 bonus against a medium non-mecha.Quote"A mecha ignores size penalty to AC and attacks against non-mecha oponents. Such enemies don't gain size bonus to attacks and AC against mecha targets."
There is no mention of whether grappling is supposed to receive a similar treatment, which could be logical.
Though technically, being so big, the penalty to AC would make sense the same way that one may raise an eyebrow if some dude suplex'd a huge mecha.
It's been done with trains before.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to be in contradiction with the concept:That's to justify damage discrepancies. A medium mecha's rifle is probably shooting bullets the size of people that should splatter regular humanoids. So when you roll a non-critical hit, it's more that your mecha-size bullet grazed your target, still inflicting significant damage but without reducing them to fine mist. On the other hand a lucky arrow/crossbow bolt hit armor joints and damage the squisher circuits inside.QuoteGiant robots inevitably have weak joints and vital systems to be targeted, and their targeting systems have trouble landing a clean blow on much smaller opponents.
I never lose interest. Just waiting till the end of time for our OzzyThis one?
under a DM who thought visiting a hot spring / onsen should have a year's worth of detail put into it and I swear pulls most of his images for his homebrew from sakaku chan's image board.
I'm pretty sure we're just barely hitting Japanese levels here, couple more tentacles and nose bleeds and we might just make it. Hugo isn't creepy, just trying to fit in.
That's easy for you to say, miss "I can bench-press a starship". :pRD's character has 37 str, so medium right? Max heavy load is only 4,160lbs which is basically this.
That's easy for you to say, miss "I can bench-press a starship". :pRD's character has 37 str, so medium right? Max heavy load is only 4,160lbs which is basically this.So maybe not a starship, but if Bay keeps his crap up she can pile drive some transformers into the ground.(click to show/hide)
Edit - Here I found some rare footage of Hugo's father showing everyone how it's done.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/h1k7oWeZqIDlK/giphy.gif)
At 160tons, I think you could try carrying the restaurant around to deliver. Pizza within one minute from the oven or it's free!
160 tons really isn't when we're talking about structures but it should be enough to drag around a kitchen and it should be enough to break down real world physics and most certainly biology. Also Google was kind enough to say it is 3,556 tons.
And speaking of, Bahamut's carry weight on my sheet used x32 for bipedal when it's supposed to be x24. :(
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than characters can. Instead of the multipliers given above, multiply the value corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×¼, Diminutive ×½, Tiny ×¾, Small ×1, Medium ×1½, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.
though that makes working out my actual numbers for this particularly confusing.No mech right?
Nah, working out the exact grapple if we're working on MU scale.I have no idea if we're using it so I skipped it (ok well apparently I used it instead of BAB, w/e it's only a 3 point difference).
Nah, working out the exact grapple if we're working on MU scale.I have no idea if we're using it so I skipped it (ok well apparently I used it instead of BAB, w/e it's only a 3 point difference).
Also, I'm confused how much damage I'm taking: 272-AC and DR stuff, or 272-1/2 of AC and DR stuff. O_o272-1/2 of (Nat armor+Armor+Shield) -1/2 DR. Other AC bonus don't apply.
At least I'm still up either way. Possibly in negative HP, but up. Also, can they grapple a colossal target?The marauder mob right now counts as mecha gargantuan, so yes.
Well Mech's only have Natural/Dodge bonuses to AC and given the 1/2 rate on probably like 15 AC yeah you're pretty much screwed if you don't have an alternative means to reduce or dodge the damage. Also I think Hugo just got a special energy-net grapple ability using his funnels (aka a dozen tiny robots) so maybe the nanomachine mechs are just fancy looking funnels.
I also feel compelled to break out the big guns here. Given that Bahamut is Colossal can I just use Baha's natural weapons instead of the mech's?
We actually engaged the first battle all in mecha.That's coming from Ancient Temple/Border of Life's feat, right? I've changed it to another effect a bunch of months ago although I guess I forgot to point it out. You can keep it for this battle but I'll have to ask you to update your character sheet when this battle is over (feel free to swap it for another feat).
Also, here's a reminder that all allies within 30-ft of Mao gain a +8 bonus to AC and Reflex saves
All allies within 30 mu (pretty much the whole room) also gain a +6 command bonus to attack rolls and AC.Hhmm, you appear to be right.
That should help a bit mitigate the damage and perhaps better avoid being grappled, depending on Osle's ruling on attack bonuses applying to grapple checks.
(considering the whole Weapon Focus giving a +1 bonus to attack rolls with grapples and the Sage stating that being prone applies its penalty to attack rolls to grapple checks)
Nah, working out the exact grapple if we're working on MU scale. I think my modifier would be ~+32 with everything considered and without the size effects. Defensively, not much going on, except for Fall of Great Stars. That doesn't seem likely to help in the current scenario except by skipping the whole round.
So was my retreat into cover after my attack ignored?Katherine only hit one sword slash, not enough to trigger the tactical feat.
At what point was my Alert triggered, if at all? To know whether it is still up to counter the grapple. Or if it gets used to counter the mobup damage depending on which came first. Since Alert apparently works even on attacks that don't require attack rolls.If you had Alert up, it would auto-block the grapple since that was used first.
Not really.All allies within 30 mu (pretty much the whole room) also gain a +6 command bonus to attack rolls and AC.Hhmm, you appear to be right.
That should help a bit mitigate the damage and perhaps better avoid being grappled, depending on Osle's ruling on attack bonuses applying to grapple checks.
(considering the whole Weapon Focus giving a +1 bonus to attack rolls with grapples and the Sage stating that being prone applies its penalty to attack rolls to grapple checks)
Yes but I still used a Move Action regardless, the Tactical Feat simply would have added the Fog Cloud to it (whether that'd have impeded or not not mattering to me atm)
It's not like I was adjacent to the target I attacked or anything, it was simply a "well IF this meets all the conditions, I might as well activate it for free. If I miss, oh well still gonna do it." :/
Not really.All allies within 30 mu (pretty much the whole room) also gain a +6 command bonus to attack rolls and AC.Hhmm, you appear to be right.
That should help a bit mitigate the damage and perhaps better avoid being grappled, depending on Osle's ruling on attack bonuses applying to grapple checks.
(considering the whole Weapon Focus giving a +1 bonus to attack rolls with grapples and the Sage stating that being prone applies its penalty to attack rolls to grapple checks)
Basically what you have is "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll, but it’s modified by your grapple modifier."RC being liberally takes as it is an attack roll even through the second half of that sentence completely alters what you use to modify it. Likewise "Other Modifiers: Feats, such as Improved Grapple, and other abilities can provide grapple check modifiers."RC being liberally taken as circulatory logic, or if grapple check == attack then weapon focus == other ability rather title namesake of modifiers that alter grapple checks.
To get a little more wordy here.And I'd also like to point out his error just undoubtedly screwed a bunch of you guys over. And us I say you guys because I'll just apply my bonuses to attack and Baha still makes his grapple check anyway (20 roll, +13 bab, +22 str, +4 luck, +3 supporting, +6 mao, etc. already hit 68 vs dc 59). He got his +6 and they got their +15 out of it. Which also makes a great case for me not trying to push things simply so "I win" in game thanks to that amazingly roll. So way to go Anomander on increasing the DC by +9.(click to show/hide)
Good argument, then for sanity's sake let's say that only things that explicitly apply to grapple actually apply to grapple instead of everything that boosts melee attacks. Re-updated IC DCs.I'm sure more than one person is grateful for that.
I mean, the salient point from this is the nat 1/nat 20 thing applying.I'm pretty sure a Natural 20 does not grant auto success on Grapple Checks but I'd have to double check. Ability/Skill Checks are not affected, Attack/Saves are, Grapple probably isn't. I just happen to have both a great roll and a high enough modifier that it doesn't matter too much.
And I'd also like to point out his error just undoubtedly screwed a bunch of you guys over.My error? I never said that attacks bonuses are supposed to apply to grapple checks. I only asked if Osle was among those who did, because if he applied attack bonuses to the enemy I certainly want us all to benefit from it as well. If he did, it wouldn't make it worse for us.
Through I'm still not sure if I'm supposed to apply my Size Mod, Colossal (+16) or Mech's Medium (umm +0 for "medium"?).The +0 for being medium, since you are in your mecha fighting a mecha opponent.
That's coming from Ancient Temple/Border of Life's feat, right?Monster class abilities and leader feats, actually.
I mean, the salient point from this is the nat 1/nat 20 thing applying.I'm pretty sure a Natural 20 does not grant auto success on Grapple Checks but I'd have to double check. Ability/Skill Checks are not affected, Attack/Saves are, Grapple probably isn't. I just happen to have both a great roll and a high enough modifier that it doesn't matter too much.
All through, a minor tangent to bring up. Ols typically awards a +5 bonus to your Save against an immunity-piercing effect if you have the actual immunity. Maybe if you have FoM you could ask for that if it'll help. Likewise if your Mech is sentient it could attempt an aid you for +2 maybe? In either case, nuke it before it pins you. Just don't directly aim at me because it still counts as Bludgeoning damage :p
Correct.QuoteThrough I'm still not sure if I'm supposed to apply my Size Mod, Colossal (+16) or Mech's Medium (umm +0 for "medium"?).The +0 for being medium, since you are in your mecha fighting a mecha opponent.
I'm actually surprised a mob can grapple more than one target at once. The entry for Mob grapple doesn't specify it affects more than one target per use. A grapple typically affects a single creature. Other abilities may allow it to do so, though. Not sure if it did an attack roll to make the grapple or if it went straight to the grapple check (for the purpose of what can be used to defend against it).
People who want to attempt counters can attempt so, but mob anatomy means Radiant Rolling Counter and Tower Watching Blade won't work unless you manage to deal at least 25% of the mob's HP in damage to drop their full immunity to single-target effects.Ah, yes. Thanks for pointing it out. Another question, would abilities like Mao's that allow an attack to affect multiple targets count as an area attack? She can hit every enemy in reach with each attack. Not a cleave but technically better. Also, since the attacks ignore miss-chances, she could target both the leader of a mob/unit and the mob with those attacks, since she is already within the mob, right?
The wording may have room for improvement, but I would say it's already pointing out a mob can grapple multiple targets simultaneously.It would indeed need to be reworded since non-mob creatures can also grapple with multiple targets simultaneously (typical kraken strategy). One new target at a time, though. The plural can be interpreted as taking into consideration that other mob abilities removes the grapple penalties for doing so. Also, did it do the typical touch attack that is needed to start the grapple?
Mao takes 79 damage from the warrior's last shots
Also I just noticed a disgusting combo.Nothing like being on the verge of death to motivate you into paying attention to your character sheet.
Also I just noticed a disgusting combo.I wondered about how to abuse Zeal too though your combo is broken by one little detail: Zeal can be used only once per round. No matter how many turns you have, each different turn is within the same round.
Use Zeal Spirit for +1 Turn.
Use Moon Vanguard Overdrive to Recover Spirit.
Take full turn.
Take full turn again and use Zeal Spirit again on Turn 2 with your recovered Spirit.
Take 3rd full turn.
Depending on number of Overdrives a day, you can get so many back to back turns to Martial Nova like nobody's fucking business
YoKa, C-25 & C-01 are not being paid much mind as Katherine doesn't register them as anything other than expendable drones that Mao deploys (And likely doesn't know better if they are actually important SORRY -_-', even I (ketaro) don't know for sure. Not hitting Mao & Ammy was all she was watching out for.YoKa is with Mao in the mecha. It will rarely ever do much but supporting actions.
HOPEFULLY Mao's drones are either next to Mao or on the very edge of Area B if they only just arrived. I haven't been paying good attention to their locations.....
Mech's Immediate: Supporting for +3 to attack/saves/dodge.I wanted to do something like that as well though I noticed that the mech can only do actions while you are out of it, which means it cannot use the support action while you are piloting it.
I wanted to do something like that as well though I noticed that the mech can only do actions while you are out of it, which means it cannot use the support action while you are piloting it.[/quoteThat runs pretty contrary to the concept of supporting.
I just realized there's like a ridiculous amount of new Spirits since the last time I checked the list.....Damn. I need to level.
If it isn't specifically an area attack, no extra damage.QuotePeople who want to attempt counters can attempt so, but mob anatomy means Radiant Rolling Counter and Tower Watching Blade won't work unless you manage to deal at least 25% of the mob's HP in damage to drop their full immunity to single-target effects.Ah, yes. Thanks for pointing it out. Another question, would abilities like Mao's that allow an attack to affect multiple targets count as an area attack? She can hit every enemy in reach with each attack. Not a cleave but technically better. Also, since the attacks ignore miss-chances, she could target both the leader of a mob/unit and the mob with those attacks, since she is already within the mob, right?
Gah, I really need to clean up that text (done). Auto-hit (if evard's tentacles don't need to roll that, neither should a mob). Has a separate ability to deny the Aoo.QuoteThe wording may have room for improvement, but I would say it's already pointing out a mob can grapple multiple targets simultaneously.It would indeed need to be reworded since non-mob creatures can also grapple with multiple targets simultaneously (typical kraken strategy). One new target at a time, though. The plural can be interpreted as taking into consideration that other mob abilities removes the grapple penalties for doing so. Also, did it do the typical touch attack that is needed to start the grapple?
Did it provoke the AoO for trying to grapple for everyone it was used on? Mobs do not get any ability that prevents provoking the AoO but maybe it's got the Improved Grapple feat that denies it.
Welp, I'm making my Immediate Actions+Turn post. Not doing any Counters, but managed to reduce damage to 1/4 so I'm not actually hurt.No, you would only get two attacks from Disappearing Elegance against the mob.
Question!
Does Disappearing Elegance (Ancient Temple) give me an attack against every creature making up a Mob? :lmao
(Or atleast until I run out of Energy because my attacks cost Energy per swing >.> )
Yeah... I imagine the idea is that while you are outside of it your mecha autopilots itself, being sentient. It then spends its immediate actions doing something similar to an ally's Aid Another and cheers you on or something. While you are piloting it doesn't do actions of its own since you are already doing them for it. I'm not sure what the mecha's level is, though. Maybe equal to the pilot's Super Pilot class level, the sum of its pilot levels or its HD.Yes and super Pilot level.
I just realized there's like a ridiculous amount of new Spirits since the last time I checked the list.....Damn. I need to level.
I'm still waiting on whether I can (or can not) cause an explosion even if I fail the grapple attempt... :lmaoI'll rule that you can perform an attack as long as it doesn't demand anything bigger than a light weapon like regular for grapple.
Mine got blown up because the pilot has so much more health than the mecha and I failed a spot check, actually.
So much better than them :pWell, it is intended that players wouldn't want to be inside their mechas 24/7. Their main assets are superior mobility and range boost.
Well if this were Gundam Wing you could just initiate your self deconstruct sequence.Actually Heero does spend a bunch of episodes using another mecha after self-destructing while there's about three copies of the titular Gundam Wing built and being piloted by other people.
You'll live and get your mech back within two episodes ;)
Also, what would people think of standardizing mecha progression? Aka both reals and supers get to pick a real chassis, and if you have leftover levels you can add super upgrades at leisure. Otherwise reals only upgrade every 3 levels.
So basically, buff super robots?
Gah, I really need to clean up that text (done). Auto-hit (if evard's tentacles don't need to roll that, neither should a mob). Has a separate ability to deny the Aoo.Sounds good, though I'm not sure why it would get immunity to AoOs unless by a separate ability you refer to something mobs do not get by default. Mobs do not seem to be getting that ability so far unless I missed something, though that's be normal since I see not why a group of people provoking one AoO each suddenly wouldn't provoke any.
A mob is never considered flat-footed while grapplingThat's a bit weird. A mob can be flat-footed... but if it is grappling, then suddenly it is aware of every incoming threat?
Also, what would people think of standardizing mecha progression? Aka both reals and supers get to pick a real chassis, and if you have leftover levels you can add super upgrades at leisure. Otherwise reals only upgrade every 3 levels.Aye. That's why I built the Mecha Engineer the way I did... though with Real Robot working in lists of models available it gets difficult to set, hence why I went with the 'build-your-own real robot' thing myself. It would be better if the Real pilot progressed every level like the Super rather than every once in a while.
And think of a way to prevent everybody and their mother from going straight for HP and energy regen.Hm. Quite a few ways to go about it... though the important factor may be whether what you wish to prevent is having players getting access to them right off the bat or that they seem to be such an obvious early pick. The former is fixed by simply putting a prerequisite (this can also prevent maxing them asap). The later can be fixed by putting something else that's even more interesting yet more acceptable as an early pick (though it is then rushed right after...) or by increasing the investment linked to it. You'd probably want to make their increments in power similar to the Reactor options of the Arsenal, which they have a delay on anyway.
So basically, buff super robots?
Basically, you need things that are unique to Super Robots aside from a better chassis. Like, DR and HP are nice and everything, but Super Robots need to feel less like they have a weapons list and more like they have SUPER MOVES.Maybe I missed an optimization detail but I fail to see why one would deem the Super Robots to be inferior. They already get access to Burning Justice that grants super moves and for the freaky stuff you can multiclass Einst Queen or some other monster class. As far as I'm concerned the Super Robots are as different to Real Robots are as they should be considering the actual differences between the two kinds of mecha.
I know I was quite disappointed I couldn't make Murakumo have tentacles that shot out his arms and back.
QuoteSo basically, buff super robots?QuoteBasically, you need things that are unique to Super Robots aside from a better chassis. Like, DR and HP are nice and everything, but Super Robots need to feel less like they have a weapons list and more like they have SUPER MOVES.Maybe I missed an optimization detail but I fail to see why one would deem the Super Robots to be inferior. They already get access to Burning Justice that grants super moves and for the freaky stuff you can multiclass Einst Queen or some other monster class. As far as I'm concerned the Super Robots are as different to Real Robots are as they should be considering the actual differences between the two kinds of mecha.
I know I was quite disappointed I couldn't make Murakumo have tentacles that shot out his arms and back.
In order to attack, it moves into an opponent’s space, which provokes an attack of opportunity.Maybe I'm missing a detail but it looks like we're all getting an AoO against the mob since it entered our space.
None?: Guard, -20 spirit.Spirits can be used as a free action at the beginning of your turn by paying their cost in spirit points, so it cannot be used retroactively in response to receiving damage.
You may initiate this counter when you or an ally within range would be damaged or inflicted with an harmful effect.
You can instantly use a potion in your possession on the victim, as long as said potion would directly heal the affliction inflicted.
But spirits work in or out of the mech rainy!Except Guts, for our sins.
Aye, I remember you having a lot of HP and regen. The problem with Guts is that if you get one-shot'd it doesn't help much. Though back then you were facing the pre-nerfed power of love.
I'm mostly wondering now if I've got to spend actions resurrecting people or healing or if I can focus on the offensive.
0 Cha doesn't kill, only makes comatose. Can't res thatThat's the idea. Trying to take prisoners. Hard to deal enough Cha damage to knock their lights out when they die. Good thing this thing can tank hits. We already confirmed I cannot resurrect the enemy so that's not an option either way.
I'm on negative HP. That's a thing. xDAll right! I'll throw ya a Monomate!
Got it! I'm currently wondering how to use my actions for offense/support/defense and, while looking for who might need help, I noticed this:That is correct.Quote from: Baha actionNone?: Guard, -20 spirit.Spirits can be used as a free action at the beginning of your turn by paying their cost in spirit points, so it cannot be used retroactively in response to receiving damage.
Since it is used an immediate action, can I use the Elixir maneuver to use an healing item to reduce the damage received by an ally or does it only heal damage received before/after the attack that procs the counter? Part of the concern is that, because of the wording, it heals only damage already received rather than the damage received after the attack.Cleaned up the wording a bit, it's supposed to heal after the attack is completed (so if you take enough damage to be killed it's no good).
Yes they reach all the way up to the ceiling and spill into the connections to the other rooms. The closest "free" point for Mao would be roughly 15 mu into the corridor back to the previous area.QuoteYou may initiate this counter when you or an ally within range would be damaged or inflicted with an harmful effect.
You can instantly use a potion in your possession on the victim, as long as said potion would directly heal the affliction inflicted.
Also, I wonder on the shape mob occupies in the space airborne. Since they are shapeable I imagine the mass of mechas stretches up into mid-air to reach all the way up to Mao so that she would be within their space, though is there enough of them to fill all the area around her? Mostly wondering what is the distance between her and the closest open space not occupied by the mob.
I imagine the marauder has a special class/feat weapon that prevents disarms since built-in weapons can be disarmed.Class+feat combo actually.
I'm puzzled on how only 4 charisma drain was dealt if all three attacks hit, though, since unlike ability damage it isn't affected by effects that improve/reduce damage.The marauder simply succeeded in two of the saves?
The marauder simply succeeded in two of the saves?And that's my cue to go get some sleep!
That is correct.Well I got supporting's numbers pulled off the Attack Bonuses but no Alert means no mech.
That is correct.Well I got supporting's numbers pulled off the Attack Bonuses but no Alert means no mech.
So, reading in between the lines here. You're purposely throwing a 272 figure, damn near twice my Mech's HP even with every defensive upgrade applied to it, to purposely annihilate our mechs so we can rebuild them using your new robot updates?
Mao rushes in first tanking the warrior's shots at the entrance, suffering some structural damage on the proccess.I don't see that damage listed in the Crunch. Did you forget to list it?
how did you learn Giant Size again?Custom staff.
It's just that they're not actually helpful in this situation. Ignoring repeated attacks is pointless against a big source of damage, and Fall of Great Stars won't help if the enemy can do the exact same thing next round. I was not geared for this sort of attack And it's the second time I've been hit with it in the campaign... :lmaoYou can use Nuclear Heat "Uncontainable Dive" to get out of the mob's space without provoking AoOs, dealing damage along the way.
The damage received this fight so far has been pretty high from this guy's sidekicks from the previous rounds. Katherine's been dancing with death for a while now so the threat has been pretty clear.
The damage received this fight so far has been pretty high from this guy's sidekicks from the previous rounds. Katherine's been dancing with death for a while now so the threat has been pretty clear.
Something I noticed:QuoteMao rushes in first tanking the warrior's shots at the entrance, suffering some structural damage on the proccess.I don't see that damage listed in the Crunch. Did you forget to list it?
Mao managed to inflict 4 charisma damage.
Mao takes 79 damage from the warrior's last shots, -1 penalty to AC and saves until healed.
Mao takes a -7 profane penalty to attack rolls, saves, attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, ability score checks and AC for 1 round.
Thanks.Quotehow did you learn Giant Size again?Custom staff.
Edit: Though if you're grappled, that won't help much. Maybe being grappled is considered can considered to be an ill condition for tricks that removes them, such as a Sol Atomizer, which I could use on you instead of the healing.No.
Mao takes 79 damage from the warrior's last shots, -1 penalty to AC and saves until healed.Oh, I see! I thought it was part of its death throes.
More like showing the danger of getting too close to the enemy without applying defensive buffs. Or not having Defend. Or not learning a single counter among your maneuversYou do realized I have stuff like ignore single-target, ignore all ranged, Cover/Conceal, +40 AC & +20 Reflex from a Boost twice now, Heart of Water -> FoM & massive Grapple, every defensive Mech upgrade, and technically buffed 3~4 Spells off the Arcane Pilot List I'm too forgetful to track because they suck right? Heck, this is the first time I've tried using Spirit too and that failed colossally.
Also it's a bit ironic you're using old mecha rules like 40% HP regen while somehow having one of the brand new spirits. If you don't want to update your sheet, you should at least keep it consistent instead of cherry picking between old and new rules. :pActually I do update my sheet, every couple of months or so, but for mostly what's new to what's going on such as the NPCs/background and I do screw up numbers every now and then.
Hmmm, since we're at it, how did you learn Giant Size again? It's a Wu Jen spell whereas the Arcane Pilot can only learn from the soeceror/wizard list. I don't even care how exactly you're persisting it.It should be off one of the Staffs, either the Runestaff or the actual Staff depending how I worked out applying Persist. Hence why I also have like a +14 UMD Check.
The damage received this fight so far has been pretty high from this guy's sidekicks from the previous rounds. Katherine's been dancing with death for a while now so the threat has been pretty clear.
Yep, I gotta say, Katherine likely feels like the squishiest, most at-risk-of-dying-every-fight person in this party. And in fact she does pretty much face dying almost every round of the majority of the fights we've had since the beginning. And yet, yes, I (Katherine) does some how always manage to not just barely get out of dying but also tends to avoid most if not all damage dealt by whatever should have killed her.
I still feel like she's near the lower end of our party dynamic tho -_-'
I'm legit waiting for ya'll to nuke this fight into being over because I don't think I can do this too much longer without retreating for a couple rounds to recoup. (Which does feel appropriate for Katherine's archetype now that I think of it. Hit like lightning and gtfo if the fight ain't already decided by the time the thunder fades :D
Fun Fact: It takes me an average of 2 hours for every one of Katherine's turns in combat whenever she is the target of an attack. My previous turn neared 3 hours because I wasn't just dead, I was dead twice over and then some.......
The damage received this fight so far has been pretty high from this guy's sidekicks from the previous rounds. Katherine's been dancing with death for a while now so the threat has been pretty clear.
Yep, I gotta say, Katherine likely feels like the squishiest, most at-risk-of-dying-every-fight person in this party. And in fact she does pretty much face dying almost every round of the majority of the fights we've had since the beginning. And yet, yes, I (Katherine) does some how always manage to not just barely get out of dying but also tends to avoid most if not all damage dealt by whatever should have killed her.
I still feel like she's near the lower end of our party dynamic tho -_-'
I'm legit waiting for ya'll to nuke this fight into being over because I don't think I can do this too much longer without retreating for a couple rounds to recoup. (Which does feel appropriate for Katherine's archetype now that I think of it. Hit like lightning and gtfo if the fight ain't already decided by the time the thunder fades :D
Fun Fact: It takes me an average of 2 hours for every one of Katherine's turns in combat whenever she is the target of an attack. My previous turn neared 3 hours because I wasn't just dead, I was dead twice over and then some.......
I am less squishy than Katherine and I'm STILL the guy who doesn't even bother with Mage Armor. :p
No, wait
EDIT: Osle, remind me what, if anything, do I need to change about Hugo's mech? I am confused about how people seem to be having like new and old rules mixed up since I haven't looked at the rules in... a while. @_@
The damage received this fight so far has been pretty high from this guy's sidekicks from the previous rounds. Katherine's been dancing with death for a while now so the threat has been pretty clear.
Yep, I gotta say, Katherine likely feels like the squishiest, most at-risk-of-dying-every-fight person in this party. And in fact she does pretty much face dying almost every round of the majority of the fights we've had since the beginning. And yet, yes, I (Katherine) does some how always manage to not just barely get out of dying but also tends to avoid most if not all damage dealt by whatever should have killed her.
I still feel like she's near the lower end of our party dynamic tho -_-'
I'm legit waiting for ya'll to nuke this fight into being over because I don't think I can do this too much longer without retreating for a couple rounds to recoup. (Which does feel appropriate for Katherine's archetype now that I think of it. Hit like lightning and gtfo if the fight ain't already decided by the time the thunder fades :D
Fun Fact: It takes me an average of 2 hours for every one of Katherine's turns in combat whenever she is the target of an attack. My previous turn neared 3 hours because I wasn't just dead, I was dead twice over and then some.......
I am less squishy than Katherine and I'm STILL the guy who doesn't even bother with Mage Armor. :p
No, wait
EDIT: Osle, remind me what, if anything, do I need to change about Hugo's mech? I am confused about how people seem to be having like new and old rules mixed up since I haven't looked at the rules in... a while. @_@
Well, if it uses real robots as a basis, nothing. If it uses supers, there were more caps introduced on maximum upgrades depending on level, so you'll probably have to redistribute upgrade points.
EDIT: Osle, remind me what, if anything, do I need to change about Hugo's mech? I am confused about how people seem to be having like new and old rules mixed up since I haven't looked at the rules in... a while. @_@Oh don't feel bad, I initially had no idea what he meant either, specially given the remark about it.
I only have like... 4 Super Pilot levels, to be fair, so.That should be next to impossible seeing how it's Gestated and your other half is forced pilot.
Though I think I suggested reshuffling where various features are listed, so Os isn't the one behind that.
Though I think I suggested reshuffling where various features are listed, so Os isn't the one behind that.
So if we die this fight, it's Rainy's fault! :lmao
Yeah I had to rebuild my super robot nanoarmor earlier this year I remember. Had to spread points out more evenly cause couldn't get some things as high anymore with the new progression caps, but somehow came out with a stronger super robot anyways.
EDIT: Osle, remind me what, if anything, do I need to change about Hugo's mech? I am confused about how people seem to be having like new and old rules mixed up since I haven't looked at the rules in... a while. @_@Oh don't feel bad, I initially had no idea what he meant either, specially given the remark about it.
"Also it's a bit ironic you're using old mecha rules like 40% HP regen while somehow having one of the brand new spirits."
Even in his new thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7165.msg178255#msg178255), where you're still supposed to dig for another (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7157.0), "Mech Regeneration" is still X/10ths. IE 4 is 4/10ths or 40%.
His real complaint I think was the purchase cost was drastically increased and caps became 1+(1/2 level) rather than 1+level. So like I have 14 upgrades in Plating but I should have 8. Ironically, I only spent 14 points in Regeneration too, so really I'm just not per-cap compliant which has produces a highly abnormally defensive mech that is "broken" as far as it's defensive values are concerned. ...And yet it's still curbed stomped in one hit.
EDIT: Osle, remind me what, if anything, do I need to change about Hugo's mech? I am confused about how people seem to be having like new and old rules mixed up since I haven't looked at the rules in... a while. @_@
Though I think I suggested reshuffling where various features are listed, so Os isn't the one behind that.RRRAAAAIIIINNNNEEEHHH!!!! :shakefist
You linked the Super Robot page twice.Yeah, one of those was suppose to be the dead thread just to highlight things. You used to also have to open the Real Robot thread for the basic upgrades on top of the Super Robot thread for the Super-only upgrades so I mean technically we're better than we were. Through I still have to have Arcane/SR/Basic simultaneously open.
So before a 13th level SR would have 130 (base)+70 (14x oldplating)=200 HP.Yeah, most of the old formulas are still posted in Baha's sheet.
...I'm going to end up almost fully Super Pilot, save for one level in AP so I can channel my spells through my robot.We should all just level up soon. The best way to fix math errors and handle homebrew updates is just to restat everything right? :D
which is equal to your pilot level+1, halved.Most people write it as [lvl/2]+1 but yeah pretty much. Just remember if the level doesn't grant any Martial Advancement then you get +1/2 rate.
This will also result in Hugo suddenly getting EXTRA buff because SO MUCH HP. (We're talking a d4 to 12 upgrade here.)
EDIT: Can someone remind me how the heck I calculate which maneuvers I have access to?
Speaking of which, should nanomachine's healing take energy? It seems like that would make sense.
I'm also thinking of a new status similar to disable (that I'll perhaps implement in a class/prestige class) where a mecha reached critical point and can no longer regen energy and all energy usage uses hp instead; to illustrate a mecha being damage to critical parts of its systems and no longer functioning properly (could get penalties to speeds, attacks and similar). Until repaired or energy is obtained from another source than the mecha itself.
Most people write it as [lvl/2]+1They do? But... it doesn't work.
... No? The it-costs-something healing is available through spirits and more powerful to boot.I know. I'm thinking that maybe it should as I imagine that a mecha that is spent shouldn't be able to keep on healing itself.
Do we need more save or dies? Because that's sounding a lot like an effect that may as well be replaced with 'dies'.Exactly. It is in effect an alternate form of death/very-near death that doesn't lead to a destroyed mecha. Since a mecha that is taken out of a fight do not always lead to them blowing to pieces.
QuoteMost people write it as [lvl/2]+1They do? But... it doesn't work.
Pilot level of 4 does not grant level 3 maneuvers.
which is equal to your pilot level+1, halved.4+1=5, 5/2=3.5. Per your equation Pilot 4th should be granting Maneuvers with a level of three and a half :p
5/2=3.5No.
It is in the arsenal as a first level accessory.That's what it is, why off in another thread.
Extra:The super robot gains one extra in-built basic weapon. Cannot be taken more than once per 4 HD.The basic built-in weapons of the super robots suck. 1d6+Str mod. Why would anyone want more of them? (barring building your entire build around having as many in-built weapons on you as possible for the use of specific maneuvers/abilities)
While we're commenting on stuff, here's an upgrade that I found sub-optimal ever since I saw it, for most builds:QuoteExtra:The super robot gains one extra in-built basic weapon. Cannot be taken more than once per 4 HD.The basic built-in weapons of the super robots suck. 1d6+Str mod. Why would anyone want more of them? (barring building your entire build around having as many in-built weapons on you as possible for the use of specific maneuvers/abilities)
Special Attack: For each offensive maneuver the super robot knows that deals damage without using a weapon, you can pick a special property between Disarming, Grabbing, Pinning, Concussive or Downfall. Enemies damaged by the maneuver are affected by the special property. You may pick a different property for each valid maneuver. Specific properties must be picked when upgraded but you can pick different ones for each attack. Can be taken twice for 3 and 4 points, increases energy cost by 10%/20% when activated.I understand that it is meant to cost 3 points to take it once and 4 points for the second time, and that the second pick means you apply two mecha weapon properties to the maneuver instead of one?
Why did you roll a d20 for Creeping Sun? Doesn't it deal a string of d6s?
That... brings to mind the image of something strange I've seen referenced to that's been poping up around the Internet. There are some kinds of girl/battle-cruisers hybrids.
Very strange.
Which goes to show that you can apparently mix anything with a girl and sell it in japan.
The girl driver thing? That hit Reddit a while ago and it is starting to pop up on all the Japano sites.
Nah that's something newbtw, what is the girl driver thing? Like it seems to have vanished and I swear it hit Reddit/imgur and a couple other sites but obviously searching "girl driver" get returns a bunch of Youtube crash videos.
Also @Ols, what are the chances of of a level up happening soon? Like I have no idea how much time has happened in game but based on everyone else's edit's it's been three years. So while I'm complimenting a new mech build should I be thinking in terms of being able to select 8 upgrades in each area instead of 7? :flutter
You already leveled up after facing the esper if I'm not mistaken.Last level up was from the first mission on Ragol, after the dragon w/ healing lasers room, mostly.
On the other hand your character seems to be missing any ranks in Craft (Explosives)He's got Knowledge (Astronomy). It's been updated to that key-ability score. RD is still with the old Craft (Explosive) but it doesn't matter much since they're both Int-keyed skills that won't see much use one way or another. And that's despite us being in a space traveling campaign.
You already leveled up after facing the esper if I'm not mistaken.You mean Ayrk? No, we didn't level after that. We started at level 12 (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9708.msg157605#msg157605) and Bahamut is lv13.
He's got Knowledge (Astronomy). It's been updated to that key-ability score.See I totally keep my sheet up to date with all homebrew changes!
See I totally keep my sheet up to date with all homebrew changes!
The Nuclear Dragon uses Craft (Explosives) as the key skill for the school instead of the one listed in the link (this change is not optional).Ah, there's that! Makes a lot more sense for a nuclear dragon to use Craft ('splosives) too, so that's just as well.
Well then it's a good thing I'llQuote from: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6660.msg100778#msg100778The Nuclear Dragon uses Craft (Explosives) as the key skill for the school instead of the one listed in the link (this change is not optional).
"G-Territory" which grants the "G-Wall" means Gravity Wall right?Aye, though that is a level 6 accessory so it shouldn't be available to us for quite a while yet. Maybe in 6-7 years.
Also I know it was ruled my buffs apply to the mech when I get in it, but does that hold true if I swap out the umm ..."Arcane Channeling" arsenal stuff for something more than Divine-Flame only offense? Like some of the mech weapons scale up pretty nice.Not sure I understand what you're trying to ask.
Aye, though that is a level 6 accessory so it shouldn't be available to us for quite a while yet. Maybe in 6-7 years.I'm getting mixed signals here.
Anyway, after some digging, I finally found the maximum level.I could have swore something was said about channeling our Special Abilities through the Mech would become a Super Robot Upgrade instead of Arsenal right? Also what is the Arsenal level cap? Like 7th?^Correct!
Oh yeah, arsenal access is a CF. I forgot that it was a class level based thing.I never knew, the homebrew is about the least intuitive thing I've seen since college-level programming assignments.
“That will not work twice” counter to stop Mao's attack.It'll have to save against the Charisma drain anyway since it can affect creatures immune to it, though they get a +5 bonus on the save.
Quote“That will not work twice” counter to stop Mao's attack.Also, when something like that happens in response to the first attack of many attacks, doesn't it make sense that the attacker can simply choose a different weapon for the rest of the attacks?
Well, no. Go check how DR itself is described.Yep. Pretty much what I meant as far as getting apparent immunity to the damage goes.
There's no requirement listed anywhere in the rules for the fluff to be so close to the first mechanical effect that springs to mind thatThat doesn't make much sense. You don't get rules for fluff. Otherwise it wouldn't be fluff and would be actual mechanics.
QuoteThere's no requirement listed anywhere in the rules for the fluff to be so close to the first mechanical effect that springs to mind thatThat doesn't make much sense. You don't get rules for fluff. Otherwise it wouldn't be fluff and would be actual mechanics.
I'll also note that Osle specifically stated which counter was done, instead of just saying what happened like he usually does, which negates all possibility of figuring out what happened normally.
The reason would likely be that Mao recognized it, otherwise he wouldn't have specified what was used against her attack.
Though I wonder if the immunity-breaking part of the Charisma drain would work. How's it worded?Anomander probably hasn't written it down yet.
Which does mean that the fluff doesn't have to sync up with 'tank it', because that doesn't necessarily equate to what happened.While your statement isn't false, what I said doesn't mean that. It only means that you cannot use fluff in whichever way you want just because there are no rules for it specifically because fluff is what isn't covered by rules. And it isn't covered by rules because it shouldn't have to be since it is inconsequential to what happens mechanically.
Though I wonder if the immunity-breaking part of the Charisma drain would work. How's it worded?It should. The counter gives an immunity to the weapon's ability drain, and "Even creatures immune to Ability Drain can be affected, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves".
Anomander probably hasn't written it down yet.It's in my sheet. Usually as written in the homebrew. I didn't make it.
It's in my sheet. Usually as written in the homebrew. I didn't make it.That helps.
Though I wonder if the immunity-breaking part of the Charisma drain would work. How's it worded?
Essence Drain- Choose one weapon of the Monster of Legend (may be a natural weapon) or its constriction if it has such ability. Every time the Monster of Legend hits an oponent with that weapon, it drains 1d8 from one stat chosen when this ability is gained (if Con is chosen, only 1d4 is drained). Attacks drain with each hit, Constriction drains each round the hold is maintained. A Fortitude Save (DC equals 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Highest Stat mod) can be made to avoid this drain effect. Even creatures immune to Ability Drain can be affected, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves. At 10 HD and every 5 HD thereafter, ability Drain increases one die size as if it was a weapon.It only bypasses immunity to Ability Drain.
When initiating this counter, select one kind of weapon, a spell, a power, a maneuver, or a similar effect that you were struck by on the last round. You become fully immune to the chosen kind of attack for 1 minute.
Immunity to the weapon would prevent any carrier effects, no matter your (in)vulnerability to them, from hitting as well. It can also negate the Essence Drain if it so choose, sort of like how shoving a Spellcaster into an Antimagic Field makes everyone immune to his Scorching Fireball even through it's supposed to partially ignore Fire Resistance.Indeed.
Anomander seems to think it only grants Ability Drain immunityNo. I didn't address the other immunities covering everything dealt by the weapon since it is plain that the attack doesn't have an immunity bypass for the damage.
Otherwise you could use this against a maneuver where the entire thing has "pierces immunity to mind-affecting" and the counter does nothing--even though it's not providing an immunity to mind-affecting, just the maneuver.It wouldn't do nothing. It would give the user immunity against the mind-affecting effect, which then has a chance of being pierced. Usually granting +5 to the save. The counter effectively gave it the immunity that normally blocks the entire maneuver. If the initiator of the mind-affecting effect can bypass immunity, then the initiator who did the counter will know better next time.
QuoteOtherwise you could use this against a maneuver where the entire thing has "pierces immunity to mind-affecting" and the counter does nothing--even though it's not providing an immunity to mind-affecting, just the maneuver.It wouldn't do nothing. It would give the user immunity against the mind-affecting effect, which then has a chance of being pierced. Usually granting +5 to the save. The counter effectively gave it the immunity that normally blocks the entire maneuver. If the initiator of the mind-affecting effect can bypass immunity, then the initiator who did the counter will know better next time.
And that's a good thing. The counter gives immunities. That's what immunity piercing effects were made for.
Though getting immune to everything dealt by a weapon doesn't change that the immunity includes immunity to its ability drain, which can be bypassed separately.That is false equivocation and by that logic, an AC of 9,000 which would make a creature virtually immune to your attacks which would also erroneously dubbed to immunity to your Ability Drain and therefor you do not need to actually hit anyone to trigger it.
That is false equivocation and by that logic, an AC of 9,000 which would make a creature virtually immune to your attacks which would also erroneously dubbed to immunity to your Ability DrainOnly if your logic doesn't make the difference between an immunity and forms of defenses that aren't immunities. Infinite AC isn't an immunity. Being virtually or even in effect immune (the adjective) to something isn't necessarily an immunity (the special ability) to it.
Only if your logic doesn't make the difference between an immunity and forms of defenses that aren't immunities.It's your logic not mine. Being immune to one effect isn't necessarily the same as being immune to another.
When Mao notices the first gunlash blow does not deal damage, does she want to retroactively switch to another weapon? Because if I'm not mistaken her Cha drain only applies to gunlashes.Only if the first attack that hits drains charisma. Otherwise she'll estimate that it doesn't work. Unless her previous dealings with that counter led her to believe otherwise or that the marauder shows signs of trying to resist the fortitude save. Otherwise she'd just use other weapons and I'll roll the new damage rolls and give you the updated attack results for those weapons since the attack roll modifier is likely different.
And yes, the way it's worded now the Counter grants immunity and immunity-piercing effects would get through. I'll probably change the wording after this battle a bit since it's supposed to be anti-spam measure, but for now Mao's Cha drain would have a chance to get through.
Define very fast because Kat is also at Mecha speeds right now and is required to chase down fleeing foes!
Escaping from Katherine is always taken as a challenge to outrun her ;)
Also, after moving, what is its distance from Mao?Your characters don't know it since the mob went inside corridors that twist and turn quite a bit, but 290 mu.
Makes the first save.QuoteWhen Mao notices the first gunlash blow does not deal damage, does she want to retroactively switch to another weapon? Because if I'm not mistaken her Cha drain only applies to gunlashes.Only if the first attack that hits drains charisma. Otherwise she'll estimate that it doesn't work. Unless her previous dealings with that counter led her to believe otherwise or that the marauder shows signs of trying to resist the fortitude save. Otherwise she'd just use other weapons and I'll roll the new damage rolls and give you the updated attack results for those weapons since the attack roll modifier is likely different.
And yes, the way it's worded now the Counter grants immunity and immunity-piercing effects would get through. I'll probably change the wording after this battle a bit since it's supposed to be anti-spam measure, but for now Mao's Cha drain would have a chance to get through.
Does the counter stacks with itself? Getting 1 minute long immunities every round or does it change the boost's current immunity? Mostly because then it soon because a matter of nullifying all your enemy's weapons than stopping spams. As is it certainly seems to stack with itself.That's why you should carry back-up weapons and/or maneuvers that don't rely on weapons. Mecha shows always have the machines with plenty of toys. A giant robot system that rewards you for just having one uber weapon, now that would truly suck.
Doe the marauder mob's movement provoke an AoO from everyone that had it within reach? I'm not sure why only Kat has one.Whitdraw action makes you count non-threatened at the start of the movement. Katherine however had left her clone on an opposite position from herself so the mob has to go through one of them to exit the room.
Soro: [/b] What's the range of your breath in natural form again? Because the marauder mob is moving at mecha speed, aka pretty fast.Probably far to short. I hastily updated as I had to get out the door and missed the speed difference. It's ILx20 with a 120ft Move Action if needed which normally would produce a nearly inescapable 380ft range. But in mu scale, that's probably not a lot.
But you don't need to bother rolling new damage rolls because the Marauder Mob made itself immune to the maneuver and not the weapon.Then he is vulnerable to all of Mao's attacks as normal since she didn't use that maneuver last round. He is immune to Three Point Strike for 1 minute now though. Want to retroactively change it?
Whitdraw action makes you count non-threatened at the start of the movement. Katherine however had left her clone on an opposite position from herself so the mob has to go through one of them to exit the room.Only the first 5-mu occupied square of threatened square, unless I missed something. The mob is massive and it passes through multiple threatened squares during the process since there's plenty of people within it.
QuoteBut you don't need to bother rolling new damage rolls because the Marauder Mob made itself immune to the maneuver and not the weapon.Then he is vulnerable to all of Mao's attacks as normal since she didn't use that maneuver last round. He wasted his counter.QuoteWhitdraw action makes you count non-threatened at the start of the movement. Katherine however had left her clone on an opposite position from herself so the mob has to go through one of them to exit the room.Only the first 5-mu occupied square of threatened square, unless I missed something. The mob is massive and it passes through multiple threatened squares during the process since there's plenty of people within it.
And, to be fair, if you're at level 9 or above in single combat with someone, and can't manage 10 combinations of maneuvers and different weapons in this system, you probably went wrong somewhere in character creation. On top of having an opponent who's using every swift action they have to prevent you from repeating an attack.I got plenty of combinations but it remains very strong since there is little to no means to stop it and it lasts pretty much the entire fight, rather than simply preventing you from using the same stuff every round, which would be what it would be doing if it lasted 1 round, it simply takes something out. Lasting one minute doesn't prevent spam, it just takes one option entirely out.
Choose an Ancient Temple user's youkai blades and most of his options just got taken out against that enemy for the entire fight. I'm all for that maneuver but I think 1 minute in a martial system that allows you to spam it every round is too strong. At that level and in general.
[That's why you should carry back-up weapons and/or maneuvers that don't rely on weapons. Mecha shows always have the machines with plenty of toys. A giant robot system that rewards you for just having one uber weapon, now that would truly suck.
Since otherwise it would be an illegal action, yes. Feel free to roll new damages then.QuoteBut you don't need to bother rolling new damage rolls because the Marauder Mob made itself immune to the maneuver and not the weapon.Then he is vulnerable to all of Mao's attacks as normal since she didn't use that maneuver last round. He is immune to Three Point Strike for 1 minute now though. Want to retroactively change it?
QuoteWhitdraw action makes you count non-threatened at the start of the movement. Katherine however had left her clone on an opposite position from herself so the mob has to go through one of them to exit the room.Only the first 5-mu occupied square of threatened square, unless I missed something. The mob is massive and it passes through multiple threatened squares during the process since there's plenty of people within it.
Choose an Ancient Temple user's youkai blades and most of his options just got taken out against that enemy for the entire fight. I'm all for that maneuver but I think 1 minute in a martial system that allows you to spam it every round is too strong. At that level and in general.
It definitely shut me down last fight I had in a 1v1 situation.Quote[That's why you should carry back-up weapons and/or maneuvers that don't rely on weapons. Mecha shows always have the machines with plenty of toys. A giant robot system that rewards you for just having one uber weapon, now that would truly suck.
Ancient Temple Moon Vanguard -_-'
While in nuclear stasis you cannot act until it is your turn again but you also cannot be moved (even by gravity), altered or otherwise afflicted by any condition until then.
QuoteWhen Mao notices the first gunlash blow does not deal damage, does she want to retroactively switch to another weapon? Because if I'm not mistaken her Cha drain only applies to gunlashes.Only if the first attack that hits drains charisma. Otherwise she'll estimate that it doesn't work. Unless her previous dealings with that counter led her to believe otherwise or that the marauder shows signs of trying to resist the fortitude save. Otherwise she'd just use other weapons and I'll roll the new damage rolls and give you the updated attack results for those weapons since the attack roll modifier is likely different.
Oh hey, Railgun.
The maneuver doesn't specify sudden no momentum. :lmao
Katherine's attack misses.Perhaps it depends on whether Kath applied the +6 command bonus to attack rolls and if the Mob's AC and movement speeds got reduced by Mao's maneuver by failing a few Will saves.
For the bonus evil dmg, does Mao know when it is applied?Probably not. If it's the same with Holy or the Monk's Strike, you have no idea unless the monster lets you know.
Right now feels ambiguous like a paladin smite; when it works, is the paladin aware? Like a visual 'humph!' of holy light whenever it triggers.Technically he isn't.
Back in my tabletop days, when I had an holy weapon, I never rolled the 2d6 at every swing - the DM told me to roll the holy damage dice.Yeah but that's sort of different.
Well, I have that 30k meseta from the dragon I never spent -_-'Well Ols does want us to stick to WBL so now is a good time to resync on your end. Plus that 30k is like half of the amount you could have gained moving from lv12 to lv14 anyway so it really sounds like you never moved up to your level 13 gear. Plus you should have stuff form the springs and w/e this little ordeal might offer to finish things out.
I think I'll keep being straightforward.The new upgrades leave more room open for offense even if you focus on defense so you might consider looking into mech weapons.
I've also literally never looked at schemas and have no idea how they work.Really?
So you have to UMD schemas?That just means you'll have to spend more to buy up some UMD bonuses :p
Not really a class skill :p
Maybe if you politely asked Ols to retrain some Skill Points now that you've seen the light of how UMD is pretty much a required Skill for optimizers you can skip all the extra buffing too.
We could also try to refrain from an internal arms race given how much rocket tag we already have...If your buffs are designed to try and keep you alive it's literately the exact opposite of rocket tag.
Haha, I want a Retributive Amulet :PMiC nerfed it to 3/day, requires an Immediate Action, and no bonus to Saves. But it's like 47,000gp cheaper too so that was pretty nice.
This is the result of the rerolled damage and updated attack results.
69 atk ; 48 dmg
79 atk, nat 20 ; 51 dmg
75 atk ; 51 dmg
68 atk ; 48 dmg
Will DC 37 per attack that hits or have its AC reduced by 4 and its speed reduced by 10-mu for 1 round (cumulative, max AC reduction of 16).
Dmg ignores half DR/hardness
Bonus dmg if evil as usual. For the bonus evil dmg, does Mao know when it is applied? It would tell me if the target counts as evil though if you prefer rolling the extra damage for me I'm all for it.Mao wouldn't know that just from such a weapon property. Unless she faced an evil and non-evil marauder with all other stats equal and noticed it's killing the evil one 17% faster.
I wouldn't have to since the bonus damage is applied whether I know if the target is evil or not. It is just a pain to roll it "just in case" and wonder if it is rolled for me when I do not do it. Right now feels ambiguous like a paladin smite; when it works, is the paladin aware?That reminds me of the Overlord series where the main protagonist is an elder lich that one time puts on a special protection from holy spell but still screams and pretends to flinch when hit by holy damage so his opponent think it's super effective. And when hit by fire damage that he is actually vulnerable to he acts like it was nothing to pretend he's immune.
Like a visual 'humph!' of holy light whenever it triggers.
@Ols, why is there no HP Regen Arsenal?Auto-Regenerating mechas is almost exclusive super robot territory, that's why there's no arsenal option for it.
You've made it so Super Robot's Regeneration (both hp and energy) upgrades cannot be taken with Hyperdimensional Storage to prevent stacking regenerations. But Arsenal only offers energy regeneration to begin with. Intentional weapons/armor/cc/ton_of_buff_choices or nothing but hp_regen or "oops forgot it"?
Edit2: Can you buy Intelligent Items? Os? Can I buy an Intelligent Item?As long as you pay the price in the SRD. Or re-train a feat to geta monster class version pet.
Which reminds me, your mecha just broke, where are your familiars right now? :smirkHaha, I want a Retributive Amulet :PMiC nerfed it to 3/day, requires an Immediate Action, and no bonus to Saves. But it's like 47,000gp cheaper too so that was pretty nice.
Also I just noticed my familiars gain their own mechs and the wording is a little wonky and suggestive the co-mechs get their own Arsenal weapons, but in this game where Ols murders everything in one hit risking 2,800xp at level 14 just to try and squeeze some damage in is probably like asking to delevel.
Mao wouldn't know that just from such a weapon property. Unless she faced an evil and non-evil marauder with all other stats equal and noticed it's killing the evil one 17% faster.Fair enough though the real question was whether the class ability requires that the player rolls both kinds of dice (one for potential evil and another for potential evil outsider/undead) ever attack or if you'd be doing it in secret since you if something is an evil, outsider/under or otherwise.
That reminds me of the Overlord seriesAn absolutely valid strategy given some bluff checks. Looking unaffected by pain isn't a common talent while looking in pain is deadpan easy.
Which reminds me, your mecha just broke, where are your familiars right now? :smirkProbably chillaxing at home with their armed to the teeth minibots scaring away solicitors because someone is too cheap to buy the 11k belt to carry them around like pokemon.
Hey SorO, remind me which item(s) will let me teleport as an immediate action outta range?It's probably the...
SHADOW CLOAKWhich is more of out of melee range, you'll still have to find something for ranged. Like Friendly Fire (no ranged attack roll succeeds against you).
Price (Item level): 5,500 gp (10th)
Body Slot: Shoulders
Caster Level: 12th
Aura: Strong; (DC 21) conjuration, illusion
Activation: — and immediate (command)
Weight: 1 lb.
This black cloak writhes as if it were alive.
A shadow cloak grants a +1 deflection bonus to AC.
If you are attacked, you can use the cloak three times per day to produce one or the other of the following effects. You can gain concealment for 1 round, or you can teleport to a space you can see clearly up to 10 feet in any direction.
Prerequisite: Craft Wondrous Item, blur, dimension hopPH2, mage armor.
Cost to Create: 2,750 gp, 220 XP, 6 days.
Huh, I was thinking of the Anklet of Translocation, but that's even better.Those are a Swift Action which limits them to your turn only so yeah the cloak is pretty nice :)
As long as you pay the price in the SRD. Or re-train a feat to geta monster class version pet.
Yeah thats the thing, I spent awhile looking and never found any pricing.o.O
Two at 19, one at 10
Speech, telepathy
Four lesser powers and three greater powers
120 ft. darkvision, blindsense, and hearing
+15,000 gp
Item has 10 ranks in Spellcraft +5,000 gp
Item can use haste on its owner 3/day +16,000 gp
Item can cast 10d6 lightning bolt +60,000 gpetc.
A mecha can only change size by taking the super robot growth upgrade or some other ability that explicitly allows a mecha/ship to change its size. This includes a mecha ignoring abilities of its Pilot such as powerful build.Does this mean that the stance Oni Crowd "Imp Swarm" cannot be used with a mecha since it requires that your size changes?
QuoteA mecha can only change size by taking the super robot growth upgrade or some other ability that explicitly allows a mecha/ship to change its size. This includes a mecha ignoring abilities of its Pilot such as powerful build.Does this mean that the stance Oni Crowd "Imp Swarm" cannot be used with a mecha since it requires that your size changes?
This seems set to be one of the most redundant questions ever.How do you think we hit three threads so far anyway?
Edit: DAMNIT KETARO!*polite cough*
UMD is a class skill and I never put points in it :banghead
This seems set to be one of the most redundant questions ever.How do you think we hit three threads so far anyway?
This seems set to be one of the most redundant questions ever.It wasn't really a question. More of a chance observation in case it may be relevant.
I have a relevant question. The Black Market is at the cargo holds, right?Somebody remembers the fluff bits yay!
QuoteA mecha can only change size by taking the super robot growth upgrade or some other ability that explicitly allows a mecha/ship to change its size. This includes a mecha ignoring abilities of its Pilot such as powerful build.Does this mean that the stance Oni Crowd "Imp Swarm" cannot be used with a mecha since it requires that your size changes?
@Os: Since I was already going to ask to retrain 1 feat when we hit 14, could I fix up some skill points as well? >.>
Edit: Oh, Anomander needs to go.Yep. It's taken a week's worth of questions for him to try and rulesmonger some kind of advantage and he still hasn't posted.
Although I would prefer if players focused on finishing this battle before preparing to level up.To be fair, most of us are focused on the battle. You even got four replies on the same day as the update which is amazingly good for what I've come to expect out of pbps. But we have also had enough free time to ask other questions too.
A valid question, however I've ruled that since it's not actually your mecha changing sizes but production of new copies, then it works.You're entitled to the ruling, though that's not what I'm reading.
While you are in this stance you become tiny sized (ability scores don't change, favored discipline weapon damage remain unchanged) and multiply in 16 copies of yourself of this new sizeIt is an effect on the initiator, so the ability cannot translate to the mecha. If you bypass the size change and keep the rest anyway, then you use a restriction meant to avoid size abuses on mecha to make a size abuse on a mecha, and so cheat your own intents.
Yep. It's taken a week's worth of questions for him to try and rulesmonger some kind of advantage and he still hasn't posted.Concerned that things are going as they should, which is kind of important since if Kath's attack slowed it down then you would all have to re-do your actions since it may not be so far away.
Concerned that things are going as they should, which is kind of important since if Kath's attack slowed it down then you would all have to re-do your actions since it may not be so far away.Why would I revise it? Until the mech stops moving, which would be when it's hidden in a fortress, Bahamut can't keep up.
Speaking of which, perhaps you should have used that time yourself to get some questions answered,We already asked the questions we didn't know the answers to which is kind of the point. And then we moved on to other questions.
A. It went out at 290 mu. (270 mu now)This in short summery describes everything that's wrong and why it takes you two weeks to make a single post based on Mao knowing everything in the OOC thread. You and Kath are supposed to act at the same time and Mao only knows what Kath's character tells her. Which may, or may not, come after the DM tells her the results of Kath's character's actions which cannot be resolved until you finally post something or everyone throws in the towel and skips you. But rather than Mao chasing after her or the mech and learning the results, you're off wasting five other people's time trying to time hop to use metagame information you shouldn't have to begin with for essentially pathetic reasons.
B. The mob could be gone through the corridor, took a turn, went through another room... a few times.
C. Kath is double moving up to 300 Mu after the mob
D. Can she spot it with a single move action? That'd give her something else to do with a standard action.
Why would I revise it? Until the mech stops moving, which would be when it's hidden in a fortress, Bahamut can't keep up.Because right now you're likely Mega Flaring nothing (you're not saying what it is used on, there being no obvious enemy target). Nor are you stating where you are moving, though we're assuming you are going after it.
This in short summery describes everything that's wrong and why it takes you two weeks to make a single post based on Mao knowing everything in the OOC thread.We're supposed to get all that based on Kath's turn alone. If she communicates that information to the rest of the group, it forces us to act on it after she did, not before to keep things linear. Your move action could perhaps get you around the corner, and so you would also see what's there, if anything (probably enemy warriors if anything). This is why I myself usually note my actions and what is pending to complete the turn, based on the result of how my other actions are resolved.
You and Kath are supposed to act at the same timeWrong. We take our turns in whichever order we want. I've had similar scouting done for the party myself, which you all benefited from. This very fight I kept you all updated on things as they happened, which could be use on your turn on the same round.
Mao only knows what Kath's character tells her. Which may, or may not, come after the DM tells her the results of Kath's character's actions which cannot be resolved until you finally post somethingWrong again. You clearly do not understand how turns are done. When you go around a corner, you know what's there on your turn, not on the enemy's turn. That's nonsense and not how we've handled it before. If you'd remembered.
Kath is not a tactician.Maybe but there are important details to communicate for your actions.
If Soro wants, I can have Mao give Baham a lift into the battlefield to save him a round or three of moves.I'll pass. The mech, that can kill us all in a single action, is going to radio ahead and lead you into a trap anyway and you have less than half the party.
Who cares? Really, that's an honest question seeing how it's my action and your concern isn't relative.As I said, by all means.
But not around the corner after that,One corner at a time, fella. Chill.
I mean you haven't spent ten pages asking Ols to rule on it for you,You guys filled them by trying to answer questions that weren't addressed to you. If filling the OOC bothers you nothing forces you to contribute to it. I'm not complaining.
but one would think teamwork starts with helping the other five people at the table topYou're probably having awareness issues.
instead of selfishly wasting everyone's time.Clarifying to make sure Ketaro' attack hits isn't a waste of time. It could have resulted to our common great benefit.
I'll pass. The mech, that can kill us all in a single action, is going to radio ahead and lead you into a trap anyway and you have less than half the party.All right.
As gung-ho as _I_ am, it'd take until next round for me to get a move action. If there's even space for a Gargantuan mecha to pursue at that point... :lmaoThe corridors are 30-ft high/wide. Your space is 120-ft. You unfortunately cannot squeeze at half speed without some slick Escape Artist skill checks. Maybe going out and recalling it would be required short of... you know... making an entrance. Nothing new.
Oh, that's quite true now that you mention it. Yes it's actually pretty good by PbP standards. :blushAlthough I would prefer if players focused on finishing this battle before preparing to level up.To be fair, most of us are focused on the battle. You even got four replies on the same day as the update which is amazingly good for what I've come to expect out of pbps. But we have also had enough free time to ask other questions too.
Meh, no, since the original problem was mechas getting stupidly big (or stupidly small). But the stance only allows you to go between large and colossal (and that last one at pretty high level), and only comes online by 11th level, there's no going out of scale.QuoteA valid question, however I've ruled that since it's not actually your mecha changing sizes but production of new copies, then it works.You're entitled to the ruling, though that's not what I'm reading.QuoteWhile you are in this stance you become tiny sized (ability scores don't change, favored discipline weapon damage remain unchanged) and multiply in 16 copies of yourself of this new sizeIt is an effect on the initiator, so the ability cannot translate to the mecha. If you bypass the size change and keep the rest anyway, then you use a restriction meant to avoid size abuses on mecha to make a size abuse on a mecha, and so cheat your own intents.
It also feels like it betrays your concept of the mob in that fashion, since you created it in the spirit of making it possible to keep a group of weak creatures threatening and allow something strong to make a mob of itself.It's a pretty powerful stance yes. But it's still a stance meaning you don't get to use other stances. One that makes you take +50% damage from area effects and reduces your speed/AC at that. And it's loyal to the base material of Suika. :p
Meh, no, since the original problem was mechas getting stupidly big (or stupidly small)The issue is not that it increases/decreases size a lot or that the size change isn't too good at a given level, it is that nothing that can change a size can affect a mecha except very specific things that mention working on mechas.
It's a pretty powerful stance yes. But it's still a stance meaning you don't get to use other stances. One that makes you take +50% damage from area effects and reduces your speed/AC at that. And it's loyal to the base material of Suika. :pShe could become a swarm. That's what large groups of tiny creatures are.
I mean, I can work on Mecha scale without being in a Mecha. I'm pretty sure the Marauder was human sized, wasn't it? It could be doing similar stuff to count as a Mecha without piloting a Mecha, I dunno.Nah, it was mentioned to be a mecha. It would work if you used it like that, though. Though whether it would make you bigger (mecha tiny is huge) depends on how it is written in the ability that makes you work on mecha scale.
Your constant arguing against everything Os decides to rule for just....it's just so tedious to keep reading.I appreciate you giving your two cents whenever I ask a question but you don't have to see it as arguing.
it's just so tedious to keep reading.I just want you to know that I feel exactly as you do.
As with my normal reviewing procedures, I make suggestions as well.No, it's not your normal "review" procedure. If you actually reviewed anything you'd know you need the Track Feat and a Survival Check to "Mao keeps following the tracks of the marauder, until it is in sight. Or something else catches her attention." What your procedure really need to be called is question everything into people get sick of your crap and start saying yes to shut you up, you never review anything you do and ignore content when it's convenient.
If you actually reviewed anything you'd know you need the Track Feat and a Survival Check to "Mao keeps following the tracks of the marauder, until it is in sight.Only if the DC is 11 and higher, if you knew your stuff. With the number of creatures doing the tracks, the DC is very negative. Though I wasn't referring to the actual process of searching for tracks but following what would likely be an evident path that they would have left behind themselves. And there is the sound all their engines are making together (among others for going at such speeds). I can roll a check if it isn't automatically succeeded.
No, it's not your normal "review" procedure.I often do when reviewing maneuvers.
you never review anything you do and ignore content when it's convenient.Doesn't sound like me, no. More nonsensical accusations to add to the pile. Funny coming from someone who tried to cover up his mecha being destroyed and bitched around when it was found out.
Though for mecha ignoring size weirdness but stances that explicitly do weird sizes, I would go for the stances. Seems that you should just substitute yourself for the mecha to keep maneuvers working.That's how it is for most ability buffs, but not size altering ones.
A mecha is unaffected by the pilot's size (although you cannot pilot a mecha that's smaller than you). A mecha can only change size by taking the super robot growth upgrade or some other ability that explicitly allows a mecha/ship to change its size. This includes a mecha ignoring abilities of its Pilot such as powerful build.So a pilot's stance counts as an ability of the pilot that grants it a size change unless it explicitly mentions that it works for a mecha. That's all. As currently written, that doesn't apply to that stance. If it allows someone to use it without the size change, it allows the maneuver to be abused by initiating it through a very large mecha, which would make a mob of, say, colossal mechas. Probably not what was in mind when the size change was written into that maneuver.
Doesn't sound like me, no. More nonsensical accusations to add to the pile. Funny coming from someone who tried to cover up his mecha being destroyed and bitched around when it was found out. When I point out details that could be inconvenient to us, such as the grapple modifier question, or using spirits out of turn, you bitch about it too. Maybe it is all about was is convenient for you. Nothing new there.Is that really what you think?
That should help a bit mitigate the damage and perhaps better avoid being grappled, depending on Osle's ruling on attack bonuses applying to grapple checks.You didn't post the Grapple Modifier questions because it was inconvenient to us, you posted them because it was convenient for you to increase your check.
You didn't post the Grapple Modifier questions because it was inconvenient to us, you posted them because it was convenient for you to increase your check.It wasn't more convenient but could have been good for the party if the +atk damage aura helped everyone, and isn't a personal concern as I can make Mao immune to grappling. Point was that even when it isn't convenient you bitch about it.
Likewise in my post I stated I did not know what Action it was to use Guard but, I have more than enough spirit that I could have asked for the minor retcon of having it up in the round before because I didn't know it's preparatory vs responsive.You applied the guard spirit and didn't ask if you could. You assumed it was okay and just went with it. If you know how much spirit points you have, you read the rules for it. A minor retcon? A crucial one, you mean, based on the metagaming knowledge of its importance.
I didn't bog the thread down arguing for it or bitching about itYour knee-jerk reaction was accusing Osle's motives, saying his intention with this encounter was to instant-rek the mechas to promote his updates. Bitching. You had to accuse the motives because you couldn't argue about the rule itself; it was plainly written.
Also one of the biggest problems with trying to an ad hominem attack as a defense is it doesn't make you less of a douchebag but worse.You're always personally attacking me and you don't like it when I question your motives? Typical.
Except, I don't need your help.If you miss something and I correct your stuff in the future, whether it benefits you or not, it won't be to help you but to keep the game going under the rules. I'm not sure why you though it was any different so far. Not because I think you can't handle it yourself. Everyone misses stuff from time to time.
Something like if everyone else has posted an Anomander has not he has to post in three days no matter how many stupid questions are unresolved in the OOC thread.I'm very fine with it provided it applies to everyone.
Your knee-jerk reaction was accusing Osle's motives, saying his intention with this encounter was to instant-rek the mechas to promote his updates.Actually it was a question, and he answered it. But I think you're getting confused over the not-so-friendly-toned reminder that he got when he accused everyone of not using their defensive buffs as the reason they were dying.
I'll similarly just send my questions to the DM with private messages for everyone's convenience. Sorry for the bother and thank you all for bearing with it.I could almost hug you but I feel like I just made a pact with the devil and Ols has to pay for it.
But I think you're getting confused over the not-so-friendly-toned reminder that he got when he accused everyone of not using their defensive buffs as the reason they were dying.No, I had mostly skipped that one since it didn't seem worth the read. Doesn't sound like it was a rebuke addressed to everyone either.
Writing the questions here never really bothered me. Especially the ones where the answers affect everyone.You'll probably all get the results if it changes anything and would be free to contest it then.
Because multiplying mechas of course, which is something that usually shows up at least once in every SRW game. No reason to create a new mecha-specific school when there's already another with the same effect.QuoteMeh, no, since the original problem was mechas getting stupidly big (or stupidly small)The issue is not that it increases/decreases size a lot or that the size change isn't too good at a given level, it is that nothing that can change a size can affect a mecha except very specific things that mention working on mechas.
Would you allow Soro's Giant Size spell to change the size of the mecha? Why would the stance of a discipline not meant for mechas (such as Burning Justice) get a free pass?
Ok, let me just change the stance to the bunch of tiny creatures ->swarm conversion rules and...QuoteIt's a pretty powerful stance yes. But it's still a stance meaning you don't get to use other stances. One that makes you take +50% damage from area effects and reduces your speed/AC at that. And it's loyal to the base material of Suika. :pShe could become a swarm. That's what large groups of tiny creatures are.
And that way she doesn't benefit from the Mob rules that are meant to be used on weak creatures. Still strong.
QuoteWriting the questions here never really bothered me. Especially the ones where the answers affect everyone.You'll probably all get the results if it changes anything and would be free to contest it then.
Ok, let me just change the stance to the bunch of tiny creatures ->swarm conversion rules and...
Oh wait, there aren't any. :eh
A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature. A swarm has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A swarm makes saving throws as a single creature. A single swarm occupies a square (if it is made up of nonflying creatures) or a cube (of flying creatures) 10 feet on a side, but its reach is 0 feet, like its component creatures. In order to attack, it moves into an opponent’s space, which provokes an attack of opportunity. It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey. A swarm can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the swarm provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A swarm can move through cracks or holes large enough for its component creatures.
A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures, whether they are flying or not. Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking. Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. The area occupied by a large swarm is completely shapeable, though the swarm usually remains in contiguous squares.
A mob can be composed of Small, Medium, or Large creatures, but all the individual creatures must be of the same type.Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're referring to. There's already some other abilities out there that transform creatures into swarms. Some monster templates do it.
No reason to create a new mecha-specific school when there's already another with the same effect.It could be a super robot upgrade of some kind or something that converts funnels into mecha replicas or somesuch. Right now the size changing stance is on a martial discipline that isn't normally learned by pilots and as written cannot be applied to the mecha since it isn't specifically doing so, which your mecha rules require.
I can create another thread in this subforum just for rules discussions through.Whichever way is most convenient.
Actually it saves me work if the discussion is here than having to post relevant replies multiple times in different parts.Aww, I was helping when I tried to answer them so you didn't have to.
Actually it saves me work if the discussion is here than having to post relevant replies multiple times in different parts.Aww, I was helping when I tried to answer them so you didn't have to.
Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're referring to. There's already some other abilities out there that transform creatures into swarms. Some monster templates do it.No, only case-by-case basis, while a stance needs to be generic. What are the stats for a swarm of imps? Pixies? Marauder mechas? Cats? Tiny animated objects? Or apply the mob rules that already exist and just say that each two tiny creatures count as one small. Done.
SRW d20 was always intended to be played with gestalt, that's why the pilot classes have little on the utility department. Also makes sure everybody gets a mecha or equivalent.QuoteNo reason to create a new mecha-specific school when there's already another with the same effect.It could be a super robot upgrade of some kind or something that converts funnels into mecha replicas or somesuch. Right now the size changing stance is on a martial discipline that isn't normally learned by pilots and as written cannot be applied to the mecha since it isn't specifically doing so, which your mecha rules require.
About the gameMao moved another 65 mu, mob not in sight, corridor only 15x15, warriors 35 feet away from each other.
What is the distance traveled so far? It would determine how much energy is consumed by the movement.
I assume the tail end of the marauder mob (since it has a lot of itself to drag around) isn't in sight for fault of not being mentioned.
Also, is this in the corner of a 30x30 corridor or at the entrance of a room (that would have the warriors hiding on the sides.)
Clumped together as they usually are?
Because I'll likely attack them with a swift action.
I think I might have lost what little common sense I have, because I was looking at the Boss template of all things... :lolI knew the day it was posted that it would be where I'd put my next level up. Don't mind that it takes both sides of the gestalt.
No, only case-by-case basis, while a stance needs to be generic. What are the stats for a swarm of imps? Pixies? Marauder mechas? Cats? Tiny animated objects? Or apply the mob rules that already exist and just say that each two tiny creatures count as one small. Done.I thought it'd be done for this stance by simply giving the swarm subtype to the creature. Maybe a little extra too. Nothing more to it as the swarm subtype has the details of how it affects whatever it is applied to. It doesn't say exactly what are the stats of a given generic swarm of a given creature as a template would but that isn't a concern for a stance since it can apply it to a creature in the same fashion you apply the incorporeal subtype.
Anyway the size changing is not an essential part of the stance. The multiplying to form a mob is and the mecha rules have no clause against multiplication. If anything the copies being tiny sized is a nerf more than anything else.Aye, a nerf built into the stance for balance, I suppose, which is why ignoring the size alteration would make it easier to abuse.
Mao moved another 65 mu, mob not in sight, corridor only 15x15, warriors 35 feet away from each other.I decided to skip them and move on to the marauder. I'll have her switch Way of the Sword to another weapon. If she has to exit the stance to reenter it for another weapon, I'll have her use Radiant Rolling Counter instead to move a bit more (depending on how far they are from her) and attack them with an unarmed strike. She can attack them all with it instead of only the one it is used against though perhaps I can only harm the one; the maneuver's wording isn't clearly indicating that the standard action cannot harm more targets than the one it has to affect so I'll leave it to your judgement.
Thanks anyway.Huh? I meant I fielded some of the answers to some of the questions posed simply to make your life easier without knowing if it were actually helpful or desired. Then you posted saying to liked some of the questions to done publicly so others can chime in.
QuoteI think I might have lost what little common sense I have, because I was looking at the Boss template of all things... :lolI knew the day it was posted that it would be where I'd put my next level up. Don't mind that it takes both sides of the gestalt.
Plus Mao seems to be effectively a slave to the AA. Seems a bit against the gist of it.I don't see how. She is an administrator herself. She is one of the founding members of the AA and part of the reason the androids rebelled and ended the war.
... this just raises more questions about other things. How the hell being in a group with Amaterasu passes without comment, for instance.I don't see why it would be any stranger than Amaterasu taking a job from the AA to begin with.
Also: please make a bullet-point version of those backgrounds at some point. Your characters are confusing enough mechanically, I have no fucking idea how the histories fit together.There isn't much for the minion. Only Yo-Ka has a particular background. The other aspects were simply built by her or built into her as part of the process of creating a Fusion Golem.
You already have enough tagalong options to put out something like three turns already, access to Zeal... as much as it would be optimal, please don't take extra sources of actions. You have more than enough choices and options.I was going to get rid of Zeal for one of the new spirits. I'll never use it anyway. I wouldn't put more than one level in Boss, as interesting as it is.
Quote... this just raises more questions about other things. How the hell being in a group with Amaterasu passes without comment, for instance.I don't see why it would be any stranger than Amaterasu taking a job from the AA to begin with.
Amaterasu fought for the highest bidder and the war ended suddenly with the android revolt. Mao and Ama may well have never even seen eachother during the war. Even if they did, there would be no enmity. She didn't follow any specific ideology, being a mercenary and the AA suppressed the warring factions and absorbed them as they took over Parum. What could have been seen as enemies for the brief duration of the revolt are now citizens (or rebels).
QuoteAlso: please make a bullet-point version of those backgrounds at some point. Your characters are confusing enough mechanically, I have no fucking idea how the histories fit together.There isn't much. Only Yo-Ka has a particular background. The other aspects were simply built by her or built into her as part of the process of creating a Fusion Golem.
I would have expected that Mao would care slightly more than her. :pMao's personality doesn't leave much room for feelings of enmity or anger. It is mostly converted to pathos or a need to complete a duty.
Summaries would be nice. I don't even know who's who... @_@Ah, I getcha. Sure! I'll work on one. Maybe sometimes this week in the evening/night.
QuoteSummaries would be nice. I don't even know who's who... @_@Ah, I getcha. Sure! I'll work on one. Maybe sometimes this week in the evening/night as right now I have so many things to take care of I am almost feeling stress.
I'm working to increase my annual income with real estate investments and there's a lot of numbers to crunch and investigate while working full time. And I have deadlines before the government changes the game with new laws that are harder to take advantage of.
Mao still needed to post the swift action, and just a swift actionAlready have. Just not sure which will apply but I've set an order of priority based on what can be done. I'll roll hit/dmg if it ends up with it being an attack and update the energy meter as per the total flight distance traveled. Off t'ill tomorrow night then.
Anyway the size changing is not an essential part of the stance. The multiplying to form a mob is and the mecha rules have no clause against multiplication. If anything the copies being tiny sized is a nerf more than anything else.Something that just stroke me that then it becomes difficult to interpret what the maneuver really does.
Just to point out it's not the party's new turn yet. Mao still needed to post the swift action, and just a swift action, then I need to make the general turn update, in particular Katherine who's fast enough to catch up with the mob after Mao drew the shots.Ahh, cool. I was like new round and nothing for us? Well I'm pretty sure Kuro captured some guys...
Wouldn't that just count as a mecha weapon of size gargantuan? Even if it doesn't, I don't recall the damage dice increasing in powers of two.The dice advance at a "+2=x2"-like rate.
12 times the damage and 128 times the cost. Wow. xDYeah but most weapons are pretty cheap to begin with. It's probably why the Gundam Sandrock ran around with a submachine gun and two swords instead of fancy mech gear ;)
Since Weapons have no cap, they simply are designed for X creature, you can create a Colossal+++ weapon for a mech to wield.Aside from Oslecamo's homebrew stuff that specifically enlarge a creature beyond the colossal size, why do people assume there are weapon base damage increases based on size higher than those available for a given base damage die at colossal? It seems that if an ability makes you deal damage as if you were one size category bigger, it can't give you damage beyond the maximum size there is, and there is no size bigger than colossal (so such abilities would be useless to a colossal creature).
Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, the oldest epic dragons deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons, as shown on the Epic Dragon Face and Reach and Epic Dragon Attacks tables below. In addition, the breath weapon of the oldest epic dragons is a larger cone than most Colossal dragons possess. The size modifier for these dragons remains -8.Colossal+ seems to only be a way to show that the epic dragons get more powerful than others of the same size. Even the space they occupy is the same rather than actually getting bigger.
Aside from Oslecamo's homebrew stuff that specifically enlarge a creature beyond the colossal size, why do people assume there are weapon base damage increases based on size higher than those available for a given base damage die at colossal?Because your citation is found in a entry that adds a 9th Size to the game and specifically is for True Dragons. Also, if you have an uncapped example that lists four things and specific rules saying you advance to the fifth thing it's only logical you don't stop at the fourth.
A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder.In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.If you wanted to design a Colossal+++ Dagger to be wielded by a Colossal Dragon as a Two-Handed weapon you can.
Because your citation is found in a entry that adds a 9th Size to the game and specifically is for True Dragons. Also, if you have an uncapped example that lists four things and specific rules saying you advance to the fifth thing it's only logical you don't stop at the fourth.Yes, and it clearly indicates that there is no size larger than colossal. It even explains that the Colossal+ entry isn't a real size category and is just meant to indicate that dragons at that size get better damage and breath range and the like. Though the space and reach doesn't change... which is odd, since technically every size has two kinds; long/tall, a bigger dragon could have gotten the better reach for also being tall, but it doesn't.
Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.Yes. Doesn't that imply that a weapon cannot be bigger than the maximum size a creature can be?
Didn't Rainy take a giant axe from the dragon tho for pretty much that very reason?Only the Sol blade did high base damage. Except maybe the ranged weapon. The others did pretty normal damage but the axe increased the Strength score.
Quote from: SRDEvery weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.Yes. Doesn't that imply that a weapon cannot be bigger than the maximum size a creature can be?
If you make a Colossal+++ weapon, which is designed for a Colossal+++ creature, it would require that a Colossal+++ creature is possible.
But it seems to cap a Colossal.
I combined two monster classes with gestalt/monster hybrid and now I'm suposed to grow beyond colossal! What happens?It doesn't state that there is a bigger size category, it only determines how your stats are affected whenever you are supposed to get bigger again but you are already colossal. Whether it allows you to get a weapon designated for something larger than colossal, while logical, may need to be specified because it only increases the natural weapons.
Your character's space and reach increase by 10 feet, height is doubled, its natural armor increases by an extra 1, its natural weapons increase one die size, gain an extra +4 on grapple/bullrush/trip and similar maneuvers that care about size.
Oooh look Anomander is in another rules argument with his follow players and complaining Ols's homebrew is "ambiguous" to interpret things in his way.I asked you what made your interpretation of sizes correct, because I don't remember seeing anything that validates it. You have yet to do so.
you just tried saying your personal interpretationI'm just reading things as they are written. It says there are no sizes larger than colossal. If you insist on inventing new ones, then it feels like you are interpreting things to mean something else than what is written. Not me.
Colossal+ entry increases damage beyond Colossal making it favor my point, not yours.Only if you misread the entry. It only increases the damage of the natural weapons of those dragons. Not the damage of the weapons they wield. You read it as an actual size category when the entry specifically explains that Colossal+ is only a indicator for colossal dragons that are better than other colossal dragon while still being colossal. Their size modifiers don't change, their space do not change. Their reach doesn't change. Nothing changes except a few specific things; natural weapon damage and breath range. It seems that one can only interpret that has an actual size category if they do not read what it is and only see it as a size category, which it isn't; it is the colossal size category with a bonus. If your assumptions are entirely based on the Colossal+ dragons getting a natural weapon damage increase, then you are trying to generalize something beyond what it is and to apply it to things it doesn't.
Are we seriously having an argument over a point that I can make moot at level 16 by actually getting that size increase? :ehYes, yes he is.
When you read "there is no size category larger than Colossal", what is it exactly that is subject to interpretation?Here is what is actually printed.
Colossal+ Size: Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, ...He literally misquoted the wrong entry as a strawman point in a game there expressly added more sizes ran by a DM that expressly clarified Size increases to stack indefinitely in case anyone asked. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Vecna, it got me to rejoin arguing a bit, but I suppose I am pretty easy like that.
You're the one that keeps up the ad hominem far more than needed and exacerbates things, though.Eh, we all know I give reflective treatment to people and I literally just mentioned I'm pretty easy to draw into an argument. You're not stating anything new or unheard of to anyone present and since it's all secondary to the incitement your branching into a from of blaming the victim simply because you personally don't like the response.
Besides, isn't treating the symptoms equally important as dealing with the source of things? <_<Not really.
Edit - btw, I want you to realize something else. You blaming me for my reaction to someone else instead of the provocation also means that I in turn cannot be blamed for any or your posts trying to argue otherwise. This long ongoing problem is apparently your fault according to RD. :P
But if we ignore the symptom and just focus on the source, then apparently we should focus entirely on faulty electronics whilst letting the building burn down around us.Yeah you probably should. Putting water on live wires is a good way to get someone hurt or killed. And speaking of interior attack, you need to start at the underlying problem of the rapidly oxidizing materials rather than the flames which as just a burning gas symptom of fire. Otherwise the fire will continue to generate heat trying to relight what you're trying to put out.
Here is what is actually printed.It wasn't misquoted as it was the relevant part of the quote and the rest does not change in any way the statement it makes.
Quote from: The actual Colossal+ Size Entry that expands on the existing sizesQuoteColossal+ Size: Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, ...He literally misquoted the wrong entry as a strawman
Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, the oldest epic dragons deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons, as shown on the Epic Dragon Face and Reach and Epic Dragon Attacks tables below.So even though there is no size larger than colossal, specific creatures (epic dragons) get more damage than other colossal creatures.
The easy solution is to just allow the immortals handbookAye, that one has actual size categories above colossal.
But by that logic we can start a chain of cause and effect to well before we're born, and I don't recall this being about whether the world is deterministic or not. :lmaoMaybe we were predestined to discuss it here and now because a butterfly got killed in Africa ten years ago?
Mao moved another 10 mu.QuoteMao still needed to post the swift action, and just a swift actionAlready have. Just not sure which will apply but I've set an order of priority based on what can be done. I'll roll hit/dmg if it ends up with it being an attack and update the energy meter as per the total flight distance traveled. Off t'ill tomorrow night then.
That would be a problem if the "original" is bigger than tiny, but since the marauder started as diminutive, the "original" gets to be carried around by their bigger clones.QuoteAnyway the size changing is not an essential part of the stance. The multiplying to form a mob is and the mecha rules have no clause against multiplication. If anything the copies being tiny sized is a nerf more than anything else.Something that just stroke me that then it becomes difficult to interpret what the maneuver really does.
It first makes you tiny, which now doesn't happen - then it makes copies of you in the new size, which never changed - You then become a mob of yourself.
The original non-copy mecha never changed size, so even if it made a bunch of tiny copies of itself, it itself isn't tiny, so it maybe cannot form a mob with itself (depends if by all of them having to be the same type you refer to the creature type).
Except the incorporeal subtype doesn't reduce your attack options to " a few d6 and that's it".QuoteNo, only case-by-case basis, while a stance needs to be generic. What are the stats for a swarm of imps? Pixies? Marauder mechas? Cats? Tiny animated objects? Or apply the mob rules that already exist and just say that each two tiny creatures count as one small. Done.I thought it'd be done for this stance by simply giving the swarm subtype to the creature. Maybe a little extra too. Nothing more to it as the swarm subtype has the details of how it affects whatever it is applied to. It doesn't say exactly what are the stats of a given generic swarm of a given creature as a template would but that isn't a concern for a stance since it can apply it to a creature in the same fashion you apply the incorporeal subtype.
If the stance effectively turns the mecha into a mob, the resulting mob cannot be of a size bigger or smaller than the mecha itself is. If it just makes copies of the original's size and mobs them up, that makes a pretty massive amount of large mechas since the stance doesn't account for the fact that the number of copies is meant to be Tiny only.The mob is a new entity. It's not a transformation. Otherwise the stance would've skipped the multiplication part.
You know, if you're willing to skip out on Arsenal's unique properties and have the cash normal weapons are simply the way to go.Heh, I would be willing to allow ordering of custom giant "normal" weapons. Unlike arsenal, they would count towards your carrying capacity and have no mecha special properties also meaning enemy DR counts as double unless you're the same size or bigger than your target.
Since Weapons have no cap, they simply are designed for X creature, you can create a Colossal+++ weapon for a mech to wield. Base cost, Weight, and HP all double per Size modification so upgrading to Large, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal, Colossal+ (mech large), Colossal++ (mech huge), & Colossal+++ (mech gargantuan) creates a x128 modifier with +7 damage upgrades (+8 if you buy your mech some strongarm bracers).
Most WSA become redundant, like adding Flaming to a Gargantuan Mech Greatsword is a +0.04% increase in damage but Splitting is very potent. Hank's Energy Bow, works out to 8k for the +2, 100gp for the composite, 300gp for masterwork, leaving 14.2k for the unique trait. Upgrading this to a +2 Splitting Colossal+++ Energy Bow in turn produces a total cost of 77,200gp, if Size chances are respected it deals 24d6+StrMod+PowerAttack Force damage which completely bypasses Damage Reduction and you get at least six attacks per turn. @30 Str no-PA that's 564 damage (which isn't even enough to sunder it's self).Yes, if you start using OP "reverse-engineering" unique magic item you can pull crazy OP stuff. It's still OP and basically one of the most borken things you can do the in the game. That way only lays madness.
Anyway: we actually have rules in play for this, though the question is 'would a giant weapon in the hands of a mecha count as its normal size or mecha size'.
Yes, if you start using OP "reverse-engineering" unique magic item you can pull crazy OP stuff. It's still OP and basically one of the most borken things you can do the in the game. That way only lays madness.I didn't reverse engineer the Ability to combine it with another, I reverse engineered the cost to improve the +2 Enhancement Bonus up to a total of +5 which is something you're allowed to do. Then I increased the base cost of the weapon per Size adjustments since weapons don't auto-adjust like worn items do.
Mao moved another 10 mu.All right, so her pursue of the marauder took her up to 270 mu. Staying 30 mu away from the mob if she could reach that position. Wondering what the total distance traveled is to calculate energy loss.
If I see the mech would be bombers or anything might as well Guard again (leaving me with 28 spirit left)Again, you can only use spirits at the beginning of your turn.
I think I'm still dazed this round, so I don't think I'll be posting unless someone starts a conversation.Nah, you're note dazed anymore. You used the counter when it tried to drag you off, then it was your turn and you got dazed until your next turn, which begins now.
Yes, if you start using OP "reverse-engineering" unique magic item you can pull crazy OP stuff. It's still OP and basically one of the most borken things you can do the in the game. That way only lays madness.I didn't reverse engineer the Ability to combine it with another, I reverse engineered the cost to improve the +2 Enhancement Bonus up to a total of +5 which is something you're allowed to do. Then I increased the base cost of the weapon per Size adjustments since weapons don't auto-adjust like worn items do.
I could have gone with a Sharktooth Staff, it costs 2,560gp, deals 24d6 20/x2 slashing, with free Grapple on hit without having to move into their Square. @20Str/11BAB that's still 267 dmg & three Grapple attempts without a single Enhancement or WSA. Harpoons deal a little less but good luck making a mech run away when the specific rules say it has to rip the Harpoons out or win a Strength Check against the Unmovable Rod it's tied to. And Sunder is out of the question while in combat, both a chain and Harpoon have 1,280hp.
Unless I actually find a target with my terrible checks, I won't have much to do with my turns actions. I only did the immediate/AoO & skill checks. :pAoo misses, you can't see where it went, but you can "hear" the general direction it's heading to.
@Os: I know I've been asking for alot of little edits/retraining for my character already, but would it be cool, again, to switch out Moon Vangaurd's Burning Justice for Martial Machine as that school would pretty much solve my weapon selection problem and I only have 3 Burning Justice Maneuvers that I've literally never used -_-'
270 my total yes. If you maintain the same action as before then you end in the same room as Katherine staring at an open airlock into the empty void of space, roll spot and listen checks.QuoteMao moved another 10 mu.All right, so her pursue of the marauder took her up to 270 mu. Staying 30 mu away from the mob if she could reach that position. Wondering what the total distance traveled is to calculate energy loss.
The movement as part of the attack is before she resumes her chase and was included in the counter, if that wasn't clear.
Anomander: In case you forgot, Nacht System is the acessory that grants Stealth, aka can hide without need of cover/concealment, not invisibility, so See Invisibility won't help you here.I do remember. I just stated it in case there was invisibility thrown into this as well to increase the spot DC and in case there was other stuff to see.
Hey Ols you should type cast your Class Features, or add the entry to your FAQ they all default to one of the four anyway, or if you already did that and I have no clue what all I missed: Great job!Whot? :psyduck
Whot? :psyduckCast your Class Features as Extraordinary, Supernatural, Spell-Like Abilities, or even one up WotC and expressly note Natural when appropriate.
Whot? :psyduckCast your Class Features as Extraordinary, Supernatural, Spell-Like Abilities, or even one up WotC and expressly note Natural when appropriate.
I know some of your homebrew things mix and match, like DR that should be Su with Resistances that could be Ex, but it mismatches standards in some areas, poses questions in others, and doesn't blend so well with cross-support that directly interact with those abilities. Like your Beholder did things exceptionally well, but near as I can tell pretty much every Template Class didn't.
Heck, I'll even let you roll a 1d3 for each currently un-tagged class feature you're interested on and just apply the result (1-Ex, 2-Su, 3-Natural, SLAs are pretty self-evident). It can't be any worse than D&D's standard "Singing well to motivate people is Supernatural, but shutting down the sun instantly by shouting at it is Extraordinary".That's almost be just as tedious and then knowing me I'd forget what I rolled before and reroll it each time for some truly chaotic abilities. :p
I want to use Empower Spell-Like Ability/Extend Supernatural Ability/Polymorph, is my Class Feature Extraordinary/Supernatural/Spell-Like/Natural/Untyped?It's simple & consistent with the descriptions. No need to stoop to WotC's level after all. ;)
Many Class Features were not appropriately marked, I apologize. Unless noted otherwise follow this order.
* If it copies a spell it's a Spell-Like ability.
* If it seems magical it's Supernatural.
* If it appears to be based on the character's knowledge, choices, or spellcasting it's untyped (thus not a special ability).
* If it appears to reshape your body or grant racial bonuses it's Natural.
* Otherwise if it isn't any of those it defaults to Extraordinary.
Sometimes delegation this will be hard because a Class Feature gives multiple attributes at once, such as DR 5/evil (a supernatural effect) and spell resistance (an extraordinary effect), leave the class feature it's self untyped but apply the appropriate tag to each of the granted abilities.
Bump. Kuro still didn't post actions for Hugo.Also, bump bump nudge nudge Kuro.
Where are you getting "DR is supernatural" from? It just seems to show up in statblocks untyped.
Damage reduction that can be overcome only by aligned weapons is supernatural. ... Weapons that have a magical enhancement bonus of +6 or higher can overcome epic damage reduction. An “epic weapon” isn’t enough. This type of damage reduction is supernatural. ... If a creature has this kind of damage reduction, such as DR 5/magic, it also has the magic strike ability (see page 101). This kind of damage reduction is supernatural. ... When a DR entry has a dash after the slash, such as DR 5/—, no weapon can overcome it. Insurmountable damage reduction is extraordinary. ... Damage reduction that can be overcome only by adamantine is extraordinary; DR that can be overcome only by cold iron or alchemical silver is supernatural.I'm pretty sure the original source was the 3.0-to-3.5 update book too, the FAQ has a couple entries, but idk when the MM's picked it up. The RC is enough for me.
Ah, it's the DR that relies on mystical weirdness that's su.Pretty much. I think Cold Iron was originally Ex, but that could be my failing memory.
The description for the damage reduction special quality in the MM glossary says damage reduction can be either supernatural or extraordinary, but it doesn’t say which monsters have which kind.For referance as it doesn't appear in the SRD.
Damage reduction is extraordinary unless the weapon property that bypasses the damage reduction is “magic” (as in damage reduction #/magic) or one of the four alignment qualities (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful), in which case it is supernatural.
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.So I guess it was technically the 3.5 MM1 was the original source, it just didn't get correctly expanded on until later.
Bump. Kuro still didn't post actions for Hugo.
Mao and her bots fail to notice the ship's current whereabouts.Whot? :psyduckCast your Class Features as Extraordinary, Supernatural, Spell-Like Abilities, or even one up WotC and expressly note Natural when appropriate.
I know some of your homebrew things mix and match, like DR that should be Su with Resistances that could be Ex, but it mismatches standards in some areas, poses questions in others, and doesn't blend so well with cross-support that directly interact with those abilities. Like your Beholder did things exceptionally well, but near as I can tell pretty much every Template Class didn't.
That's because the Beholder was originally done with big help from another guy about two forums ago.
Anyway at this point that falls under "things I have no time to update" because with the hundreds/thousands of class features I've written it would take days at best to update everything and I simply can't afford that time for minor tags that are irrelevant 90% of the time and can be easily assigned in the 10% of time they count for.
Heck, I'll even let you roll a 1d3 for each currently un-tagged class feature you're interested on and just apply the result (1-Ex, 2-Su, 3-Natural, SLAs are pretty self-evident). It can't be any worse than D&D's standard "Singing well to motivate people is Supernatural, but shutting down the sun instantly by shouting at it is Extraordinary".
Namely, ready the Discocalypse to unleash upon any masses of straggling enemies.Oh, you posted that on the OOC only! :P
Well, you would roll on this forum of course, so you wouldn't have to worry about the forgeting part.Heck, I'll even let you roll a 1d3 for each currently un-tagged class feature you're interested on and just apply the result (1-Ex, 2-Su, 3-Natural, SLAs are pretty self-evident). It can't be any worse than D&D's standard "Singing well to motivate people is Supernatural, but shutting down the sun instantly by shouting at it is Extraordinary".That's almost be just as tedious and then knowing me I'd forget what I rolled before and reroll it each time for some truly chaotic abilities. :p
How about...Hmmm, you're right, may as well make it a FAQ entry.Quote from: New FAQ entryI want to use Empower Spell-Like Ability/Extend Supernatural Ability/Polymorph, is my Class Feature Extraordinary/Supernatural/Spell-Like/Natural/Untyped?It's simple & consistent with the descriptions. No need to stoop to WotC's level after all. ;)
Many Class Features were not appropriately marked, I apologize. Unless noted otherwise follow this order.
* If it copies a spell it's a Spell-Like ability.
* If it seems magical it's Supernatural.
* If it appears to be based on the character's knowledge, choices, or spellcasting it's untyped (thus not a special ability).
* If it appears to reshape your body or grant racial bonuses it's Natural.
* Otherwise if it isn't any of those it defaults to Extraordinary.
Sometimes delegation this will be hard because a Class Feature gives multiple attributes at once, such as DR 5/evil (a supernatural effect) and spell resistance (an extraordinary effect), leave the class feature it's self untyped but apply the appropriate tag to each of the granted abilities.
Just to double check, was concealment rolled against me?If you had Alert up, then it misses Katherine.
Just reminding cause I don't think I've actually been attacked for some time now and I forgot I had concealment myself till I opened my sheet hehe
Edit: Oh, wait, was my Alert spirit triggered?
And how far away is the enemy ship?150 mu.
Yoka and the Code are in the battleship/mecha. Not sure how they're getting hit by the stuff.My bad, I though they were following along.
Mao's going to counter the attack to try to cancel it and will inform the rest of the party on the marauder's coordinates, as usual.320 mu and 150 mu.
Maybe Amaterasu has her actions somewhere in there.
What's the distance between Mao and the Marauder/Ship and it and Kath?
Does a spaceship count as an obstacle/object of which can be broken through like trying to break through a wall? :plottingMaybe take the engine out and shove it towards an asteroid? Without the wrap drive you station's own weapons can finish it off.
Right I should have and meant to ask this.
Does a spaceship count as an obstacle/object of which can be broken through like trying to break through a wall? :plotting
Also just to clarify, is Yoka wrapping to Mao pilot or mecha? Because mecha are specifically unnafected by wrap.Always Mao herself. Though I'm not sure if the damage it split considering the android's 1wtM states that the damage goes directly to the android. Not sure if the Muffyns considering the 'Host' to be whoever they are wrapping since the other ability "Control Host" infers that they are trying to control what is already treated as a host and can only affect the one currently being wrapped.
Damage is being willingly taken by the android, so does not count as an attack to trigger the half damage.QuoteAlso just to clarify, is Yoka wrapping to Mao pilot or mecha? Because mecha are specifically unnafected by wrap.Always Mao herself. Though I'm not sure if the damage it split considering the android's 1wtM states that the damage goes directly to the android. Not sure if the Muffyns considering the 'Host' to be whoever they are wrapping since the other ability "Control Host" infers that they are trying to control what is already treated as a host and can only affect the one currently being wrapped.
The marauder took the shots, though did Mao get buffed by any charisma drain done for getting hit by the three shots?Tanked all 3 saves.
Mao deflected Kat away successfully. Not sure how that affects the rest.Wait, Kat is a projectile now? I guess I need to roll to see if she breaks after being used now then. 50% chance, right?
Well considering that one feat that lets you throw allies as projectiles, I suppose having the ability to deflect a projectile could work :pIf Mao is smacking Kat too, I want to see a fresh damage roll.
Kat's just being tossed around like a ragdoll this round, gosh
Edit:Drunken Demon (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16054.msg282343#msg282343)What was that ability anyways that let the Marauder throw me without needing any checks to hit or move against my will or ect? Not that I actually have any available Counters right now -_-'Oh right, nevermind, was no doubt that autohit Spirit since my Alert was lost vs. the ship. Duh!
Still a cool ability. What School is that!?
Kat's just being tossed around like a ragdoll this round, goshA deflection wouldn't add more velocity to Kat's trajectory. She'd just keep going in the direction she was thrown at.
For....3 1/2 years now I have not been adding my Dex Modifier to my AC while in my Nanoarmor.Welp.
I'm still going to wait for Ano in case some aid-related skillcheck boost can lead to higher firepower. It's entirely possible and I don't want to make rolls then add random modifiers.I was planning to use the rolling counter against the ship's attack to move closer and shoot at it some more. Maybe Parry it too.
Kat isn't a projectile. She is deflected for being used as an improvised ranged weapon. She was thrown with an attack roll at range. If she had been used as a meat-stick in melee it would have been an improvised melee weapon. Deflecting clearly isn't only limited to projectiles since "If you succeed, the ranged weapon or projectile deflects away harmlessly.", not only only using the more general term of ranged weapon but specifically mentioning projectiles separately. It likely wasn't meant to work against ray spells and such even though they would qualify as a ranged weapon, probably being meant mostly for projectiles and thrown weapons.Kat isn't a ranged weapon either.
Fling Ally similarly uses the ally as a thrown weapon, not a projectile. Projectiles are the parts shot by the actual ranged weapon.
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Everything can be thrown. But not everything is a ranged weapon.This is moot now, but this is both yes and no. Anything that isn't a ranged weapon automatically becomes an improvised ranged weapon IF thrown. Thems the rules.
Any portable object can be used as a weapon in a pinch. In most cases, an object can be wielded either as a melee weapon or a ranged weapon.
"everything is a ranged weapon because everything can be thrown!"As Ketaro said, anything that is throw, whatever it is, becomes an improvised thrown weapon for the purpose of that attack.
However the proper argument here is this part of the Deflect Arrows featThat limitation isn't applied to the weapon's special ability. Though unless Kat is currently being on mecha-scale, she counts as a small improvised weapon.
So it's very easy to consider Martial Maneuvers to be under the same, if not similar, umbrella for the types of attacks you can not deflect with the feat.Martial maneuvers however are typically using weapon attacks as part of the initiation. It is part of their description and the way they work. A spell that launches a weapon by telekinesis would similarly be deflected.
Kat isn't an object either, let alone a portable one, so it still doesn't apply. Creatures are not objects and objects are not creatures.Quote"everything is a ranged weapon because everything can be thrown!"As Ketaro said, anything that is throw, whatever it is, becomes an improvised thrown weapon for the purpose of that attack.
QuoteSo it's very easy to consider Martial Maneuvers to be under the same, if not similar, umbrella for the types of attacks you can not deflect with the feat.Martial maneuvers however are typically using weapon attacks as part of the initiation. It is part of their description and the way they work. A spell that launches a weapon by telekinesis would similarly be deflected.
If that maneuver doesn't actually count as attacking with a weapon, thrown or otherwise, then that's different. In that case I'll maybe parry it instead since it blocks it whatever it is, as long as there is an attack roll.
As part of this maneuver you grab an adjacent enemy without need of any attack roll, then swing them around a few times and throw them up to 450 feet plus 45 feet per IL. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. If they impact in another creature (this time needing an attack roll), they stop there, otherwise they keep going towards the nearest surface and crash there. It causes a blast dealing damage equal to two Climb checks from you in a 30 radius burst (you can reduce this radius to a minimum of 0 feet) that also trips victims and makes flying creatures fall to the ground, Reflex save for half and negate the trip. If you succeeded on the attack roll, both the thrown victim and the target are not allowed the Reflex save. You can throw an unattended object too.The words "weapon" or "improvised" are never used.
It's a bit convoluted to have maneuver-specific exceptions to if something counts as a projectile. Just get two random archers and Deflect Arrows doesn't matter. :T
It seems a bit strange to be getting into the specifics of characters not being objects so not being thrown weapons so not being improvised ranged weapons so not being deflected... when simply "too big" solves it"Too big" is essentially what I said too is why the deflect isn't able to work here. Cept I also quoted the feat also saying stuff that is "too big" can't be deflected.
The words "weapon" or "improvised" are never used.I verified the glossary and a ranged weapon is only limited to projectile-based weapons and thrown weapons.You mention an attack roll, throwing, the distance the thing is thrown and the damage it deals. Splash thrown weapons have similar mechanisms but your intent is for the maneuver to not count as a weapon attack so it won't benefit from anything that benefits weapon attacks of any kind. Like, say, the Mighty upgrade. It is just the description that makes it look a hell of a lot like it allows you to use a creature as a thrown weapon. All good.
You know very well that this isn't and never was an intended or even read as-is method of using the Deflect Arrows feat.Again, this never was the Deflect Arrows feat.
QuoteThe words "weapon" or "improvised" are never used.I verified the glossary and a ranged weapon is only limited to projectile-based weapons and thrown weapons.You mention an attack roll, throwing, the distance the thing is thrown and the damage it deals. Splash thrown weapons have similar mechanisms but your intent is for the maneuver to not count as a weapon attack so it won't benefit from anything that benefits weapon attacks of any kind. Like, say, the Mighty upgrade. It is just the description that makes it look a hell of a lot like it allows you to use a creature as a thrown weapon. All good.
Drill Rocket PunchNow that would be the fast way to travel through space! Point at Ragol and you're there in an instant!
This maneuver affects a line with width equal to your size and infinite length. The attack only stops when it hits a solid surface that is not a creature. Roll to hit as normal against every enemy caught in the line, but this attack ignores half the opponent's Natural Armor bonus to AC, Armor bonus to AC, and DR.
So...
I don't suppose there are like ANY spells up to 6th level that let me just through stuff through a viewing screen and get that stuff teleported?
And control rods are weapons! :p
It requires you to stand around for seven rounds with a relatively static attack and not be knocked out of it due to getting hit and failing a roll. That you then get to unleash it seven times in one go doesn't help much with the activation criteria.You do not actually have to stay in one place. Only needs a standard action to keep it up. And the effect can be moved around, you can get targets merely by increasing it and especially with the level 1 option. In our current situation both the marauder and its ship are easy to get together within an AoE.
Currently, Super Attack wouldn't help with anything at all: it asks for non-weapon-using maneuvers that the Super Robot knows.Ah, yes. That the super robot itself knows, not the super pilot. It'd work if the Super Pilot maneuvers were both traded for Divine Flame though that probably wouldn't be optimal with the areas you try to cover.
And control rods are weapons! :pDidn't mean that it would work with it. Only that using control rods would work well with her current build. Considering the way all your attacks merge into one and that SRW loves to apply great buffs to a single attack.
That counter only works against stuff that hit you in the previous round.
Mecha Transport: A battleship can load and carry one mecha of its own size, or two mechas of one size category smaller, or four mechas of two size categories smaller, and so on. Entering or exiting a battleship is a move action on the part of the mecha. The battleship can prevent any unfriendlies from entering.
And lest I'm mistaken, in order to initiate a maneuver, you can't be grappled or dazed or paralyzed or anything like that.
I think I know what I must do. :smirk
Reading it as "moving cancels the effect" is as extrapolating as "Nothing can move you while charging up".That's true. It could actually be better interpreted as meaning nothing can move it from its position while it is charging.
The "you cannot move" part means just that-the ship can't choose to move. Just like a rock can't move on its own, but others can move it.Does that include making Reflex saves? :smirk
Reading it as "moving cancels the effect" is as extrapolating as "Nothing can move you while charging up".
Dimensional Anchor would block it fine though.
And lest I'm mistaken, in order to initiate a maneuver, you can't be grappled or dazed or paralyzed or anything like that.
I think I know what I must do. :smirk
Do notice that battleships are immune to grapple by default, sohentaitentacles won't help.
If you could paralyze/stun it would work though.
The "you cannot move" part means just that-the ship can't choose to move. Just like a rock can't move on its own, but others can move it.Does that include making Reflex saves? :smirk
Reading it as "moving cancels the effect" is as extrapolating as "Nothing can move you while charging up".
Dimensional Anchor would block it fine though.
Hmmm, you're right.
Battleships now cannot initiate grapples, but others can initiate grapples against it.
Also clarified the tactical feat to make Warp Speed teleport drop your movement speed to zero while charging.The "you cannot move" part means just that-the ship can't choose to move. Just like a rock can't move on its own, but others can move it.Does that include making Reflex saves? :smirk
Reading it as "moving cancels the effect" is as extrapolating as "Nothing can move you while charging up".
Dimensional Anchor would block it fine though.
No. Didn't you get the memo? Paralyzed/stunned/unconscious creatures are still allowed reflex saves. :p
Hmmm, you're right.
Battleships now cannot initiate grapples, but others can initiate grapples against it.
Also clarified the tactical feat to make Warp Speed teleport drop your movement speed to zero while charging.The "you cannot move" part means just that-the ship can't choose to move. Just like a rock can't move on its own, but others can move it.Does that include making Reflex saves? :smirk
Reading it as "moving cancels the effect" is as extrapolating as "Nothing can move you while charging up".
Dimensional Anchor would block it fine though.
No. Didn't you get the memo? Paralyzed/stunned/unconscious creatures are still allowed reflex saves. :p
Not what I meant. If the ship makes a Reflex save, it was made to move. Does that cancel the maneuver?
Yeah, now you know why Hugo usually hangs back and leaves you guys to do the heavy lifting in combat. If he pulled this kinda crap every fight, people would be gunning for him faster than you can scream "INITIATIVE".Hmm, if you don't mind me asking, how are you making ten thrown attacks in a single round? As a standard action? :psyduck
EDIT: Also why my posts take forever and a half in combat. :p
EDIT2: Hey Osle, is there an in-universe reason for why people can't just pirate Techniques off the internet (aside from "that would break WBL like a plastic teaspoon")?
Here's hoping you had a great Christmas and wish you a happy New Year!Yeah, now you know why Hugo usually hangs back and leaves you guys to do the heavy lifting in combat. If he pulled this kinda crap every fight, people would be gunning for him faster than you can scream "INITIATIVE".Hmm, if you don't mind me asking, how are you making ten thrown attacks in a single round? As a standard action? :psyduck
EDIT: Also why my posts take forever and a half in combat. :pEDIT2: Hey Osle, is there an in-universe reason for why people can't just pirate Techniques off the internet (aside from "that would break WBL like a plastic teaspoon")?
Technique aren't just raw info, they demand special exotic volatile components to be stored in learnable disk forms, and said disks are consumed as part of the creation proccess.
In related news, Soro hasn't logged in the forums for almost a month now.Closer to two months actually, pretty much unheard of on my end but there is a funny story about that that starts off with, "I'm an idiot".
... how do you trip in space? :huhyou can trip a flying creature forcing them to stall. Without gravity they won't plummet to the ground but they still have to spend a Move Action (provoking an AoO) to reorient them selves as well as all the other appropriate modifiers. Think of if like a round house kick that sends the mech into a head-over-heels spin, with no air friction it'll just keep spinning as the pilot vomits until thrusts fire long enough to counter the spin.
Technique aren't just raw info, they demand special exotic volatile components to be stored in learnable disk forms, and said disks are consumed as part of the creation proccess.Like Pokemon.
Quote from: Wealth and Gear176135 budget. 10,189 meseta left
Level 13 gets 110,000gp.You think Mao has 186,324gp at level 13 so meh.
Level 14 gets 150,000gp.
Level 15 gets 200,000gp
You think Mao has 186,324gp at level 13 so meh. But now that you mentioned it, maybe Mao should sell almost seventy thousand meseta worth of items off she's currently wearing and bringing into Encounters off and meet WBL some time soon...Osle is very generous on the rewards.
Maybe since most of them have actual jobs they earn their own income or something.That's not how it works. The rule for followers is that they have no wealth. Even if for some reason they had starting wealth despite being followers they would have gotten the WBL of an NPC, not a PC's. Since not everyone knows the Leadership feat all that well I'm not surprised that you gave them wealth; what does surprise me is that you gave them PC WBL.
They've been scrutinized before and their cash they spend on them selves has never came up.It just did. Not everyone looks at the details of a sheet while remembering all the rules applying to them. Which is why I pointed it out.
Actually that's exactly how it works.QuoteMaybe since most of them have actual jobs they earn their own income or something.That's not how it works. The rule for followers is that they have no wealth.
Followers don’t demand a share of treasure, although they depend on the PC they follow to equip them and keep them fed.This does not say they have no wealth so you're wrong before you even posted, again. Running theme I know *sigh*
Wait, so everyone should have earned about 50k since we started? (After not counting dragon money cause I took a weapon) I only have 30k tracked. Am I short 20k cause I've spent nothing since the start (cept for some spa tickets :p )That'd be a question for Ols, technically treasure tables pay out more than WBL expects because you're expected to expend gold on forgotten consumables. Like renting a room ten years ago shouldn't show up on your monthly statement.
If you read that they depend on the PC to equip them as "they have wealth, but give it to the PC so it can then give it to them", then sure. All right. If that's how it is then perfect! Works for us both.QuoteFollowers don’t demand a share of treasure, although they depend on the PC they follow to equip them and keep them fed.Instead of failing to "correct" someone because of your terrible competitive ego, you could have actually posted something meaningful like "hey Lost you have like 55k more to spend on stuff!" It would have been a nice Christmas present / New Year resolution for you to try being a team member at some point and helping out your follow players, but I guess that won't happen.
Which also brings us to the next point of whogivesafuck. Your long winded post that blames Ols for breaking WBL ultimately boils down to I have an extra unnoted 99,883gp. The followers have a combined net worth of 44,500gp (and that's including unspent portions of the allocations) so I can afford all their gear and still have an extra 55,383gp and you're just pissing away my time over nothing.I'm not complaining about Osle's rewards. I'm grateful. You were the one who complained that our WBL was off the chart because you needed something to get back at me for finding something that was off. Still, it could indeed have been a mistake and it would have been helpful of you to point it out even if it was the only thing to fix. So thanks. I got more cash out of it too so that's win-win for both of us. :)
Ok, I'll be considering Telekinesis for now, we can talk about a late Christmas Catapult later.Here's hoping you had a great Christmas and wish you a happy New Year!Yeah, now you know why Hugo usually hangs back and leaves you guys to do the heavy lifting in combat. If he pulled this kinda crap every fight, people would be gunning for him faster than you can scream "INITIATIVE".Hmm, if you don't mind me asking, how are you making ten thrown attacks in a single round? As a standard action? :psyduck
EDIT: Also why my posts take forever and a half in combat. :pEDIT2: Hey Osle, is there an in-universe reason for why people can't just pirate Techniques off the internet (aside from "that would break WBL like a plastic teaspoon")?
Technique aren't just raw info, they demand special exotic volatile components to be stored in learnable disk forms, and said disks are consumed as part of the creation proccess.
There are a number of ways to do that. One would be to have that goddamn disc launcher I asked for Christmas. Another would be to cast Telekinesis and refluff it however the heck I want (probably get better range on that, too). Course, if using Telekinesis, that means each of those rolls gets another +2, because I'd be using my Intelligence mod rather than Dexterity. Take your pick, basically. :D
EDIT: Don't you mean as part of the copying process?Hmmm, ok, I think that means we'll go with the high-tech semi-magic super DRM. :P
EDIT2: How does that explain at-will items? You can explain 1/day items with "battery needs recharge, can't be replaced" but what about things like an unlimited wand of CLW?
SorO: Great to see you back! And technically yes followers and cohorts are supposed to have NPC wealth, I overlooked that, but since you'll be leveling up shortly and the followers have mostly been spending time on the background there's no hurry to fix it.Meh, already 95~100% fixed. When I listed the values that was full allocations of wealth not what they actually spent.
Also, Osle, how does someone get anti-air guns like that?idk either but I want them. :D
Spell resistance.
Also, Osle, how does someone get anti-air guns like that? I mean... At least one of those rolls was a crit. I get that the AC for the discs is probably pretty low, but shouldn't it at least be rolled against my rolls?
Oh yeah, Yatagarasu Dive doesn't need LoS. Pity I'm in the wrong stance to shoot the enemy (badly). :lmaoOh yeah, Yatagarasu Dive doesn't need LoS. Pity I'm in the wrong stance to shoot the enemy (badly). :lmao
Sorry, Katherine was making a snide remark.I didn't say that in reaction to Kath's remark. I try to consider every disappearance in a puff of smoke as an escape, because that's what they usually are.
Amaterasu and Baha can explode several times a day no problem. :pYou're goddamn right.
They don't actually explode :p
because Hugo had foreseen the possibility he might need passengers, there is some arsenal space left over that is pressurized, complete with an enviro-suit Baha can use.That's an idea! Currently the only way to have passengers is to either use a ship or have a pilot with a high enough light weight capacity to carry the passengers; Convenient for me but would it be better if the way to acquire "passenger seats/space" would be by spending arsenal space or similar? Using the carrying capacity of the pilot makes sense but at the same time it's a bit weird.
Was charisma drain inflicted?Ah, yes, 7 drain.
Also, how do the Knowledge skills translate for the high tech campaign? Technology knowledge would fit in architecture and engineering? Arcana, weirdly, could also be the one since it includes constructs (not sure if that works in this setting, though. If you know about magic stuff you understand how androids work?).
If you're inside a ship and it's under a Dimensional Anchor effect, does that block ALL teleportation inside the ship or only for the ship itself?Only the ship itself.
Mostly I rolled with what made sense.Actually, arsenal space is supposed to represent more the modularity of a mecha, aka how easy is to attach extra devices on the run. In particular stuff like Armor and Shield and cape most certainly aren't being attached inside the mecha's core frame. And that's also why battleships gets crappy arsenal space despite having superior carrying capacity.
Premise 1: the cockpit can't be the only pressurized part of the robot. Therefore, its insides must be pressurizable somehow.
Premise 2: the insides of a robot must be accessible somehow in a way short of dismantling it. Ergo, there must be mechanisms to open it up.
Premise 3: unused arsenal space can hold theoretically anything, so why not an enviro-suit?
I really should properly lay down that kind of details. *details*It is a bit farfetched but I can see why considering the mechas are what a campaign may have the most of... though at the same time I do not see much of a point to it.
Meaning the whole struggle to Dimensional Anchor the ship was pointless. If for whatever reason the Marauder's pilot had access to teleportation, he/she got away as soon as he entered the ship.Technically shouldn't it also affect whoever is piloting the ship? If someone inflicts negative levels to a mecha, isn't the pilot the one eating them?
Don't you dare "not necessarily" me. We all know it would have if it could have. :P
Not if he had to hand something to someone else first. Lotsa possible ifs there.There is the point that there could have been some kind of mage/object with teleportation onboard, teleporting away people inside.
I also just remembered I had a bunch of gaps tearing through the entire area the ship had been when it blew up and forgot those are suppose to do damage every round so I missed several rounds of huge damage here haha. -_-'Maybe it exploded faster.
Meaning the whole struggle to Dimensional Anchor the ship was pointless. If for whatever reason the Marauder's pilot had access to teleportation, he/she got away as soon as he entered the ship.
Characters already have too few skill points as it is. That's why I don't want to make new skills.QuoteI really should properly lay down that kind of details. *details*It is a bit farfetched but I can see why considering the mechas are what a campaign may have the most of... though at the same time I do not see much of a point to it.
There isn't that much to know about each mecha types separately, and most of it could be just general knowledge ("the divine pilot is a mecha that does cleric magic in a weaker machine" and we just about covered the entire subject. Keeping all the mecha knowledge into one knowledge category would make more sense (could be complimented with knowledge in other categories, such as spellcraft/K.arcana for arcane pilots, say, while things like Einst would have their own category).
Mostly because most of the less recognizable abilities used by a mecha come from its pilot. So the variety of the knowledge checks would be linked to the character's knowledge of what the enemy mecha's pilot is. A Religion knowledge check on a divine robot to find out it can use a petrifying gaze because its pilot is a medusa wouldn't work but a knowledge nature after seeing the robot use the amplifier supported gaze could lead to the character recognizing that the pilot of the enemy mecha is a medusa, for example, and thus figure other abilities it may have.
Though I was mostly referring to tech stuff knowledge, like seeing a generator and recognizing it is one and perhaps have a general idea of how it works (though knowing how something works and knowing how to use it isn't necessarily the same). Chemistry stuff could perhaps fall into the Craft Alchemy skill but machines sort of have their own thing. Or like arcane understands magical phenomenons and the planes understands phenomenons related to the planes it would help understand whats happening to your office's network.
Short of having yet another knowledge skill titled Knowledge (Technology) or even a few for different kinds of tech, which could be just as fine considering there *is* a mighty lot of stuff to know.
QuoteMeaning the whole struggle to Dimensional Anchor the ship was pointless. If for whatever reason the Marauder's pilot had access to teleportation, he/she got away as soon as he entered the ship.Technically shouldn't it also affect whoever is piloting the ship? If someone inflicts negative levels to a mecha, isn't the pilot the one eating them?
Or a dimensional anchor could affect a mecha and everything within, but those who leave the ship can teleport away normally.
Most of the remaining debris and what are revealed as corpses charred by the explosion only to be frozen by the space vacuum are reduced to fine dust by Mao's waves. What appears to be empty space proves to be empty space and the energy dissipates harmlessl in the void. But a tiny object among the remains proves durable enough to resist the attack.I'll note two things; One is that her attack can only target enemies, so objects are not affected. Second is that Mao's attacks are affected by Mercy and so cannot ever kill anyone. If the Captain was still alive and floating in there somewhere he would be pretty knocked out but not dead.
1-As already discussed, inanimate objects are valid definitions of enemies. Like "alcohol was his greatest enemy".QuoteMost of the remaining debris and what are revealed as corpses charred by the explosion only to be frozen by the space vacuum are reduced to fine dust by Mao's waves. What appears to be empty space proves to be empty space and the energy dissipates harmlessl in the void. But a tiny object among the remains proves durable enough to resist the attack.I'll note two things; One is that her attack can only target enemies, so objects are not affected. Second is that Mao's attacks are affected by Mercy and so cannot ever kill anyone. If the Captain was still alive and floating in there somewhere he would be pretty knocked out but not dead.
3-Mao made it pretty explicit to be looking for the ship's whereabouts, believing it had not been destroyed but was all an elaborate light show. What if it was hiding behind an illusion/hologram of debris? Would Mao take that risk?She doesn't have to worry about that. She ignores concealment, mirror images and similar miss chances. Mao can target an empty square and use something that targets enemies and if there are enemies there she'll ignore their miss chance. If something is there that she doesn't consider to be an enemy, she'll skip it. If Mao considers something that isn't clearly an enemy/ally as being one I'll be sure to mention it. Just like the warriors from before.
All you need to say is you're simply not trying to destroy what remains of the exploded ship (upon quickly realizing it is indeed real wreckage) as salvaging it as possible evidence feels very Mao-ish. You're just waving a stick about through the wreckage like a blind person with their cane feeling his way around.Pretty much.
Objects count as enemies only if the attacker considers them to be enemies. Bits of dead stuff are just dead and scraps are just scraps. I already mentioned that once an enemy is dead she has no enmity for it anymore. There is no point having feelings for something that isn't there anymore. If she tries to wreck an item it'll be made clear. She's aiming at the empty space to hit something stealth'd. Trying to feel the impact against something that doesn't seem to be there, not against debris that already is.
Mercy indeed does not apply to things that are not alive. I only mentioned it in case there was something still alive in there. She wouldn't have killed them if any.Quote3-Mao made it pretty explicit to be looking for the ship's whereabouts, believing it had not been destroyed but was all an elaborate light show. What if it was hiding behind an illusion/hologram of debris? Would Mao take that risk?She doesn't have to worry about that. She ignores concealment, mirror images and similar miss chances. Mao can target an empty square and use something that targets enemies and if there are enemies there she'll ignore their miss chance. If something is there that she doesn't consider to be an enemy, she'll skip it. If Mao considers something that isn't clearly an enemy/ally as being one I'll be sure to mention it. Just like the warriors from before.
Either way it doesn't matter much in this case, as she is trying to hit a massive ship with a line attack. Holograms to look like a debris wouldn't change the space it occupies. Her line attack covers but a fraction of the space the ship occupied. There is a big lot of debris and corpses that weren't even covered by the line's area of effect. The idea was just make sure the space wasn't occupied.
Not sure if the pod is meant to carry only the pilot or also his passengers + other stuff in the mecha within his light weight capacity.
A Mecha stored in a ship that goes down may be all right within the wreckage if it was attended and ruined if unattended object. Or they are automatically ejected.
There is no clause for the crew and other passengers within the ship getting a pod if it gets destroyed, which may well mean that anyone, of any level, within a battleship that is destroyed would automatically perish. Good thing the Protectora is one tough girl!
Besides you already have two prisioners waiting for interrogation, so not like you're spoiled for choice.Hugo could have taken care of any we'd find here. Mao isn't an expert in interrogations. She just asks questions that rely on actual willingness to give answers.
If it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?
Another question about the Fighter transformation upgrade:It's a comma not a period so it's increased by 1.QuoteIf it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?
Unrelated to actual mechanics, wouldn't the Yatagarasu be the natural choice for giving characters a lift? That cockpit is never going to have space concerns. :lmao
Anomander. 1.5 times the value of 30 is 45 not 75.Yes. That's what I said. It specifies an increase by 1.5 (which is 45). 30 + 45 = 75.
You're just nitpicking at Os' grammar now.When I wrote my sheet I applied the multiplier to the entire speed, which is inferior to the sum. Then saw it was applying to the base speed, and then that it was an addition instead of a straight multiplier.
I do wonder how many mechas could fit in there, if a mecha that isn't a ship could store other mechas.
Unrelated to actual mechanics, wouldn't the Yatagarasu be the natural choice for giving characters a lift? That cockpit is never going to have space concerns. :lmao
If they don't mind being potentially squeezed by Ammy shifting in her seat, sure. :lmao
Maybe, but that's the least useful way to pilot anything realistically.
Ideally the mech maps out your movements so all the muscles in your limbs are already controlling various servos. You could claim the core body has no bendable position to automatically adjusts per an AI and map some controls to various muscles (twice left peck to turn missiles on, twice twice for off!) but that'd be impossible to do if your using those muscles to stand in your cockpit trying to look cool where no one can see you. Besides, it's still way more impractical than being able to mash buttons with your hand. Plus you don't even need to release the hand control to do that, if your mech makes ninja hand signs while you type in the commend to shoot a stream of fire it totally blends in.
Maybe, but that's the least useful way to pilot anything realistically.
Ideally the mech maps out your movements so all the muscles in your limbs are already controlling various servos. You could claim the core body has no bendable position to automatically adjusts per an AI and map some controls to various muscles (twice left peck to turn missiles on, twice twice for off!) but that'd be impossible to do if your using those muscles to stand in your cockpit trying to look cool where no one can see you. Besides, it's still way more impractical than being able to mash buttons with your hand. Plus you don't even need to release the hand control to do that, if your mech makes ninja hand signs while you type in the commend to shoot a stream of fire it totally blends in.
So the entire mass of debris and corpses of a really big ship was condensed into a 5-mu-wide/high area, after it exploded, which unusually disperses stuff around.In pyshics terms, for a beam of such intensity there would be quite a bit of energy dispersed all around. Not a problem for properly shielded machines, a big problem for fragile frozen corpses.
You're the physics specialist, so if that makes sense to you then all right. If the area with junk was so condensed she could have then easily aimed at open space that the ship would have had to occupy, which was the idea.
Though I'll remember I can now use enemy-only area effects on objects she doesn't consider to be enemies next time we'll need to clear something in case there are invisible enemies. If they apply when I never intended them to they may as well be useful when we need them to.Sure, as long as you don't mind the risk of burning more valuable stuff you can't properly spot at the moment.
I don't mind changing the action if the way I meant it to be used is invalid, still.Game's delayed enough as it is, moving on.
Making detailed pretty maps and uploading them is a lot of extra work, in particular when everybody has big mobility. I'm sticking with word only updates for the time being.QuoteBesides you already have two prisioners waiting for interrogation, so not like you're spoiled for choice.Hugo could have taken care of any we'd find here. Mao isn't an expert in interrogations. She just asks questions that rely on actual willingness to give answers.
The big disappointment though is that at first it's only bits of junk in space and then after posting actions to attack through the empty bits in case there is something there suddenly are previously unmentioned corpses (which says more than bits of debris that could have been blasted off the ship after the bombardment). Though you maybe rolled our automatic spot checks for us on that one in secret. In which case kudos. If she had spotted the corpses before attacking things would have been different, given her obsession to get limbs and bits to interrogate.
I can help with the maps from then on, and ask you for every measurements and distances that the party can see. Keeping track of where everything was got difficult for this fight. I'd confirm the map with you round to round to make sure it's accurate.
Something I just noticed and am not sure if it was intentional, the arsenal accessories for radars include a perception mode and damage. Are the perceptions that aren't already specifying that they depend on line of effect (such as blindsense and darkvision) bypassing line of effect? Or perhaps they work as emanation auras, going around obstacles? It is an important detail since otherwise some of them, like sensing things that aren't touching the ground then essentially just become a limited blindsense that isn't called blindsense. As for the extra damage, it mentions that it does not stack with multiple picks of the radar accessory that grants it (two level V radars won't stack) but that mention is currently only specific to multiple selections of the same radar pick, rather than all radar accessories. So a Radar V's extra damage would stack with the extra damage of a Radar IV, which probably isn't the intent.Meh, if people want to spend multiple acessory slots on diminishing returns for extra damage, I'll allow it.
Another question about the Fighter transformation upgrade:Multiplier.QuoteIf it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?
About the Ancient Sensor upgrade: -Creatures of a specific alignment chosen when this upgrade is gained. Can be taken multiple times for different alignments.
By specific alignment, do you intend this to be a given alignment axis (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful and one of the two neutrals) or an alignment such as Chaotic Good?
I always, safely, assumed that unless specifically mentioned a battleship does not have escape pods, much less ones that autoeject the pilot (especially when ships don't have pilots they have captains and an entire manned bridge). For reals, have you ever seen such kinds of escape pods in a spaceship in any Mecha anime? :P
Mecha only get em for free cause it's easy to fit. For it to reasonably work on a battleship you need the entire bridge rigged to autoeject upon destruction. That looks silly, but it also looks really difficult to implement as a "standard" feature.
It could totes be a ship captain specific arsenal option tho, ya? The ships blowing up, the captains command chair turns into an escape pod and he escaped going down with his ship like the bloody coward that he is!!!!! :shakefist
Going down with your ship oughta be a class feature ;)
Sure, as long as you don't mind the risk of burning more valuable stuff you can't properly spot at the moment.For sure! :) I'll actually be counting on it from now on.
Making detailed pretty maps and uploading them is a lot of extra work, in particular when everybody has big mobility. I'm sticking with word only updates for the time being.It is all good. I'm pretty fast on photoshop. Once I've got the dimensions of the place it is pretty easy to work. Especially considering the dimensions have to be done anyway. Prettiness is not something I bother with when the main purpose is to serve as a reference.
Ok, battleships now have a special clause for not having escape pod plus added a new Extra Escape Pods arsenal option.
Besides the AA, are there any other notable public organizations set up in this station?
The Government has a token representation.If that's the only one you can name that's awfully suspicious ;)
Added a bunch of new/compiled fluff bits to the last post of the fluff thread from campaign discussions and what I've been writing on the last weeks.Speaking of, I found the level list (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11952.msg302608#msg302608) and I know you said they were to high in level but eh it paints a picture. And while trying to find it I also found I'd mentioned the tongue (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11952.msg303487#msg303487) before.
Thanks! It is the same but unto some kind of promo poster. I don't know if the AA already has an official logo/flag from the game. I aimed for something that inspired planetary/interstellar reach and the harmonious union of both organic and artificial elements to make a strong whole.
So many possible motto. Hard to settle for one.
The hunter's guild may have multiple logos based on the multiple faction colors (purplenum, redria...), based on the color of the sigil you get when you join. Their motto is obviously "Enrich your life".
I just found the fluff on the church of light and am happy to know the space Pope is just a redneck moonshinerHahahaha!
Went and found a section ID calculator, HUnewearl, Amaterasu... Oran. XDDepends on the version. If you consider Amaterasu to be a HUnewearl in Blueburst, yes. I'm Whitill. Will probably update my mecha picture to represent it.
Currently traveling with some friends over the weekend, probably some more time before I can make a proper IC update, but feel free to point any glaring errors in what I posted.It'll bit a bit tough for there to be any real error considering this is your campaign and you're shaping the world as will. Wishing you a good trip!! Not so many things in this world as pleasant as traveling it in good company.
I really love how the religion is basically the plot of Toriko :D
I already have an account. Use to play it myself. Fantastic game. Was cool learning how to get around all the menus and quests without understanding any of the words and not having a proper guide available at the time.
Honestly, have simply been waiting for it to get localized. Though there's no doubt english patches by now for the JP version....I've just never bothered looking. I've had a hard time sticking to MMOs for a few years now.
Edit: That character creator is pretty cool. It also reminded me how lazy I am. Couldn't be bothered to figure out photoshop again so I stitched shit together in paint :lol
I did make Hugo buy me a new outfit at one point. Or intended to :P(click to show/hide)
Added a bunch of new/compiled fluff bits to the last post of the fluff thread from campaign discussions and what I've been writing on the last weeks.Speaking of, I found the level list (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11952.msg302608#msg302608) and I know you said they were to high in level but eh it paints a picture. And while trying to find it I also found I'd mentioned the tongue (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11952.msg303487#msg303487) before.
Here's some AA logos/add I did for fun with some spare time. Lots of stuff left that makes me wince that I'll hopefully find time to correct before long.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q150/IrianSibe/AAlogos2_zpsfzh6e0ca.jpg~original)(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q150/IrianSibe/AAlogos_zpskxzratnh.jpg~original)
mass produced high magic, teleportation circles and magic factories.Hmm, seems like I full on drew more of an idea of Eberron inside your head that more of an advanced FR conclusion. All well, that "magic-only works in X locations" is pretty much the Weave of FR. The idea of it deteriorating after Mystra was wiped makes a pretty sound reason to lose connection with Earth and better than I initially came up with.
When full attacking, a mecha may choose to either perform iteratives with a single weapon or attack once with any or all of its in-built and arsenal weapons, up to a total of weapons equal to their pilot level. In the latter case, all weapons after the first take a -5 penalty on the attack roll and only add half the relevant stat to damage, and cannot benefit from any precision damageTo make sense of how it works, I see that this is all about how iterative attacks are done within the full attack. The barrage mode is an alternative to normal iterative attacks.
#1 - Mech weapons deal maximum base weapon damage to non-mecha and non-mechas deal minimum base weapon damage to mechas.If that's how it reads cool, but still @Ols, has anything changed on Natural Weapons because there still isn't anything reflected in the SRW rules.
The mecha uses the pilot's base saves, BAB, skill bonuses, feats, and self-buff class abilities for fighting(except Regeneration)
Spells that affect others, Psionics, Breath Weapons, Rays and other similar abilities from the pilot cannot be used while inside the mecha
Oh gawd fcking damn bullshite. I updated my MW sheet awhile ago but looking at it now it somehow rolled back. I know it was updated and saved too cause I have the updated info in the fckin quick reference spoilers too. Fckin' garbage.
Edit: Gosh. There's no record of what the hell I spent my 40k on either so I have go freakin go shopping again :banghead
Speaking of, we free to change our sheets around now? :PAh, yes, you're supposed to have leveled up to 14 and the AA will soon be transfering 40k meseta to each of your accounts.
EDIT: What level are we supposed to be and how much money have we got?
Here's an idea. Any Pure Mithril items on the market? :pYes, pretty much anything up to masterwork level, anything higher will need to be custom-ordered.
The hell does Pure Metal stuff even cost to buy...Do the math. :P
So previously I could use my Natural Weapons just fine and Ols even claimed it was intended for larger creatures to do so, add to this we've faced natural creatures in our mechs before too.None-mech weapons still deal minimal damage to mechs, but your own mecha/power suit allows you to count your natural weapons as mecha ones.
#1 D&D-nerf, all none-mech weapons deal minimal damage to mechs.
So ummm.... Is this still a thing? I mean before the point was creature/mech/arsenal melee had pros/cons but mech ranged sucked compared to all-melee & mundane/mech ranged so your patch was to banhammer creature weapons. Well since then you've added new mech built-in upgrades and quite a few arsenal ranged. Plus you've tweak the Size bonus too, if globally applied a Colossal+++ (mech gargantuan) Greatsword deals 12d6 instead of 24d6 but still has no props/attackbonus.
#2 Barrage Mode, you can fire everything once at-once.They'll count as in-built weapons.
How does this work with other weapons? Full on one of each, Natural Weapons kind of already do that and fit in just fine?
#3 The Interaction of Growth & "channeling" Natural WeaponsNo need to spend extra upgrade points, just works by default.
It really feels like there should be a "Amplify" Upgrade for Natural Weapon channeling, maybe a point each like Extra except the cap is based on how many you have. Then for damage, probably just taking it to Colossal + your size scale on top of that.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TIuZ-MH8zjI/UVwwEP0SauI/AAAAAAAACPQ/eI-QM_yyFt8/s1600/GF13-006NA+Gundam+Maxter+%2526+Chibodee+Crocket.png)
(image fail to load? (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TIuZ-MH8zjI/UVwwEP0SauI/AAAAAAAACPQ/eI-QM_yyFt8/s1600/GF13-006NA+Gundam+Maxter+%2526+Chibodee+Crocket.png))
Nanoarmor takes the armor slot, yes? What if you're already wearing armor? Does the nanoarmor overwrite it and negate the worn armor; do you simply just get the higher of the 2s armor bonus; or does nanoarmor not activate at all if your armor slot is already full?Eeerr, good question. I'll rule it as nanoarmor overwriting any worn armor.
Welp, I guess I'll have to reroll my hit dice, then.Average. :p
EDIT: ...wow, that sucked. Can I get a reroll over here? Or at least get the average? :twitch
If and only if the crafter has at least 8 ranks in Craft(Weaponsmithing), they may make the weapon masterwork with 24 hours of work. If the crafter has at least 12 ranks in Craft(Weaponsmithing), they can make it Relicwork for an extra 3500 GP worth of materials and 72 hour of work. If the crafter has at least 16 ranks, they can make it Artifactwork for an extra 35 000 GP worth of materials and 216 hours of work. If the crafter has at least 20 rank in Craft(Weaponsmithing), they can make it Phantasmwork for an extra 70 000 GP worth of materials and 512 hours of work.
Anyone still playing PSO2? Could party and do quests and what not.
I seem unable to start my PSO2 at all recently. Got the latest tweaker and checked for missing/corrupt files multiple times but then fails to actually initialize the game. Not that I have that much free time myself but would like to do the occasional mission.I had that problem too. Nothing I did pulled through.
QuoteI seem unable to start my PSO2 at all recently. Got the latest tweaker and checked for missing/corrupt files multiple times but then fails to actually initialize the game. Not that I have that much free time myself but would like to do the occasional mission.I had that problem too. Nothing I did pulled through.
I uninstalled the entire thing and then reinstalled through the Arks torrent, then patched with tweaker. That did it.
@About party wealth: In case everyone's wondering, the wealth available now, not counting any items you found throughout the campaign, is at 169,748.60
except Baha who is at 179,748.60 gold.
There are other variables such as objects found in monster loot. Baha has whatever the Esper was equipped with and perhaps more.
Hugo got access to the special location in the resort. Dunno if they took loot from the maids they fought. Whatever happened to those.
In the minus section, there would be any consumables that had been purchased.
Did you send them to the black market to get ambushed while buck naked?
Gosh *shakes head*
What are we going to do with you, kiddo.
Did you send them to the black market to get ambushed while buck naked?
Gosh *shakes head*
What are we going to do with you, kiddo.
Did you send them to the black market to get ambushed while buck naked?
Gosh *shakes head*
What are we going to do with you, kiddo.
Hey, want to be Amaterasu's friend? xD
Like, do we have permission to use Zeal like that in the first place?Depends on what you mean by "that".
So I've made my leadership's level 6 follower and its cohort into a proxy perpetual spirit bank system to spread spirit points around the team. It is a DvatiDo you really even need Dvati? Hell, do you even need Followers?
Soul of the Machine x8, Miniaturization x3, Tek Soul, & Spirit Regen gives you 187sp & +35/rnd. Zero State (circuitx2/soulIt would be 25/t, actually. (8 SotM + 10 s regen + 7 tek soul).
46 each max.It doesn't actually adjust your maximums, just splits your current values. Like it splits HP, not Hit Dice or Hit Point Maximum.
Anomander once suggested a Control Rod's damage could be increased by substituting ranged attacks.I don't recall the exact wording I used but I'm pretty sure I had it only merge all the attacks that can be done with a fullattack action with the weapon that is transformed into the control rod. So the special fullattack action combining a bunch of different weapons wouldn't merge into that fused attack.
It doesn't actually adjust your maximums, just splits your current values. Like it splits HP, not Hit Dice or Hit Point Maximum.I'm pretty sure that what is split includes the maximum values. For example, the Plating upgrade does not just give a +10 bonus to the current HP of the mecha. It raises its maximum. It would not make much sense otherwise since all the clones could recover back to full and then you'd effectively get more or less a bunch of copies as resilient as the original. Keep them long enough and they'd even recover daily resources and so on. It makes no sense with what the ability intends to accomplish.
I don't recall the exact wording I usedI linked it.
You can indeed make the rod shot and use the natural weapons in the same full-attack but you wouldn't be able to convert the natural attacks into a stronger rod shot since they are not ranged attacks. Unless you're using one of the tricks to turn them into ranged attacks, of course. ;)But w/e. Each attack with a transformed weapon does paint an even better picture than the edit does. But it still creates some new questions, like what if you transform a Linked weapon. The Rod is still linked to the other weapon so when you attack with the other weapon you attack with the Rod. Does the Rod get to attack each time, how does it multiply in this case, etc.
In the case you used the damage would be multiplied by the number of attacks allowed by the character's BaB.
Edit: Ugh. Though I supposed the original intent was to convert any ranged attack that could have been used with the CR itself. It makes more sense, at least.
I'm pretty sure that what is split includes the maximum values.And I think that because I've already demonstrated yet another way to abuse how it's written that if I continue to make the same point Osl might nerf it to mean such.
Good grief, these numbers/plans.I have an unhealthy addiction.
I'm just interested in surviving attacks so Guts is useful in the mecha. And being more durable. Kind of countered by taking agility and speed for thematic reasons, though.Buy some Pure Adamantine Armor for your mech, it grants extra Hardness to anyone wearing it so you can snag like another 10 points of effective DR easy enough.
I can't remember why I chose gold armour to integrate this time. Adamantine is rather the obvious choice. :???Gold is the Sadism of the Pure Metals: bonus damage for dealing damage.
... Do I get a speed boost if I paint things red? :DI got rid of the doll cohort since Mao no longer qualifies for it due to swapping the discipline for Martial Machine.
But it still creates some new questions, like what if you transform a Linked weapon. The Rod is still linked to the other weapon so when you attack with the other weapon you attack with the Rod. Does the Rod get to attack each time, how does it multiply in this case, etc.The Control rod would indeed gain the Twin-linked property, since "special abilities of the converted weapon are transferred to the control rod".
Like M.Powerx5 costs 20 points and you get 100 Max Energy with +50 regen, but Batteryx8+M.Powerx3 costs 17 points and gives you 180 Max Energy with +54 regen. Mix and match as desired.Mysterious Power 5 wouldn't work since it costs 20 points and the maximum number of points that can be applied to an upgrade now is half your super pilot level +1.
It's not healing I'm concerned about so much as the surviving to heal portion.Part of the reason I was considering to pick the Revival spirit. :)
I can't remember why I chose gold armour to integrate this time. Adamantine is rather the obvious choice. :???Gold is the Sadism of the Pure Metals: bonus damage for dealing damage.
It was probably a good idea a level or two ago back when Osl wasn't trying to deal 360+ damage to all of us each turn. Now through, it's like I need defense!
Mechs can wear armor what? That's way too expensive :v
If you read it differently though I'm open to other interpretations. It may make more sense.Osl has like zero consistency (see hp points from before) and prone to editing things. I'll just go with w/e you want since you wrote the Rod and attempt to abuse it from there. :p
Mechs can wear armor what? That's way too expensive :vThey always could, you can buy colossal armor out of the PHB. Heck Mechs even gain your Proficiency :p
Mechs can wear armor what? That's way too expensive :vThey always could, you can buy colossal armor out of the PHB. Heck Mechs even gain your Proficiency :p
But yeah it can get expensive pretty fast. A Mech-Gargantuan Masterwork Full-Plate costs 211,200gp, so good luck adding Pure Metals to that. On the SWR thread I brought this up and how Colossal++++ weapons have lots of dice, hence the nerf of none-mech weapons dealing minimal damage. But on the upside we got Size Progressions for Mech-Weapons :D
Anyway, there is a Specific Pilot Feat called "I am Invincible" (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7160.msg171678#msg171678) that allows you to buy them at normal prices and simply integrate it into your Mech. The Feat also grants a couple other bonuses you can use as well.
Bah! Its one of those annoying feats that only works when in a Pilot School's Stance. Terrible.Well buy your self a Buckler like I did then. It's 15gp for the buckler, 600gp for basic pure, times size (x8 for mech-small, x16 for mech-medium, x32 mech-large, etc), or about 9,840gp. As your calculator will read it, it grants BAB/2+1/2+2 Hardness (6 @14 bab).
Over the Top-As a move or swift action, you can integrate one single piece of equipment of Pure Crafting. This can be either an item you actually own, or any single Pure Metal item that demands Bab equal to your Pilot level-5 (up to Relicwork at Pilot level 17) takes 1d3 rounds to integrate with your mecha, and then it benefits from the pure metal item using your own Bab. Retrieving the pure metal item from your mecha demands another move or swift action(if it was spawned, then it simply dissipates) and is instant. If it's a pure metal weapon, you can add its pure metal properties to one of your mecha's weapons of your choice. If you leave it in your mecha after you exit, then it counts as a Coat of Arms of the respective material in mecha scale. When you board again, it will need another 1d3 rounds for the benefit of the pure metal item to start applying again to the mecha itself.Kind of sounds like you get the benefit of the item, not metal-properties only, and one of the benefits of armor is an armor bonus to AC. If you exit it becomes a coat of arms, w/e that is.
Osl has like zero consistency (see hp points from before) and prone to editing things.Usually I find that the pattern is easy to spot as far as consistency goes but like all homebrew it helps to make sure everything is as intended in. WotC pays people to publish stuff and they run through the same issues even with a team testing stuff. Hard to cover every angle. Editing stuff is a good idea to fix stuff.
I'll just go with w/e you want since you wrote the Rod and attempt to abuse it from there. :pSounds fair! ;)
For example two Linked MSZ-010 ΖΖ Beam Rifles. One gets changed into a Control Rod and acquires the Rifle's Power, Disarming, Volatile, & Linked traits. As a mech-channeled Class Feature it counts as a Mech-Weapon so it's damage isn't minimized, but it's still a Control Rod and not Arsenal/Built-Ins. When Full-Attacking @3 attacks, the real rifle fires three shots and the Rod fires once at x3.Almost. It wouldn't work because the twin-linked MSZ-010 ΖΖ Beam Rifles follow the standard mecha rule on how twin-linked works; which is that both weapons must be of the same kind. Since one of the MSZ-010 ΖΖ Beam Rifles is now a control rod, they are no longer the same. If you could convert the second MSZ-010 ΖΖ Beam Rifles or any other twin-linked weapon into a second control rod, then both control rods would qualify for twin-linked. (Such as the initiating Nuclear Fusion “Solar Gnosis”: Hi-Tension Blade v2.0 for two control rods or by having two Divine Flame stances active or any other trick. Such as, say, using the Gamble/Fortune spirit to steal a control rod with the twin-linked property of an "enemy" mecha you'd destroy and patch it to your own mecha.)
Sound right?
@Anomander: the red thing is a gundam/40k joke. I have no idea why that justified a serious response... :TI know about the red color thing. But I thought it implied you were looking out for yet greater speeds. Which could make perfect sense given the setting has effects that improve with distance moved.
Anomander is explicitly serious responses :lmao:)
You two are going to be the death of me. ;~;I still got a Moon Atomizer if that happens. Don't worry.
-The unblockable dvati feat has been banned and erased from the monster class.Hey, you're the one who said I should consider getting better anti-jamming capacities. It was a cool feature. Too bad.
If you exit it becomes a coat of arms, w/e that is.In pure crafting it's that thing at the end of each category that happens when you put a set of such items into a heap to have then generate a special effect. That one is supposed to operate only as a fixed structure.
I don't have any effects linked to going fast, though. I just go fast. xDHave you considered Burning Justice's Stances? One gives +1 AC/Saves per 15mu moved and the other gives +1 Att/Dmg per 20mu moved. Kuro might be using those in his next level and Ano is now offering a +60% speed aura.
Well, for one I simply don't have enough energy to use full speed in a mecha let alone after raising it even further. :lmaoIt costs 0 Energy to move on the ground.
It costs 0 Energy to move on the ground.Unfortunately the rule for flying with a mecha overrules everything (though that's quite all right all things considered). Flight by any means has an energy cost. I previously got confirmation on this.
It'd also technically cost 0 Energy to fly too if you used magic ;)
I never said "better". The whole point was that long-range instant reliable communication makes most stories much harder to tell.Quote-The unblockable dvati feat has been banned and erased from the monster class.Hey, you're the one who said I should consider getting better anti-jamming capacities.
I thought it just granted the effects of the metal, not any sort of equipment. Getting random sourcebook armour at mecha scale for free doesn't seem like the point of the ability.
QuoteIt costs 0 Energy to move on the ground.Unfortunately the rule for flying with a mecha overrules everything (though that's quite all right all things considered). Flight by any means has an energy cost. I previously got confirmation on this.
It'd also technically cost 0 Energy to fly too if you used magic ;)
However, Ama could totally do all the moving on the ground and then use flight only to cover the elevation bit.
Which, after the Sadism mess in another game, I'm not all that willing to mess with.I can appreciate that and I'm glad you considered it that way.
I get the reason behind that, but remind me how it works in outer space, where flying is supposed to be easier because you don't have to fight gravity off? :PWell without air resistance to slow you down once you get up to speed you just keep going without doing anything and... Oh. Yeah... ;)
QuoteIt costs 0 Energy to move on the ground.Unfortunately the rule for flying with a mecha overrules everything (though that's quite all right all things considered). Flight by any means has an energy cost. I previously got confirmation on this.
It'd also technically cost 0 Energy to fly too if you used magic ;)
However, Ama could totally do all the moving on the ground and then use flight only to cover the elevation bit.
I get the reason behind that, but remind me how it works in outer space, where flying is supposed to be easier because you don't have to fight gravity off? :P
The reason is "I want catgirls to be alive in this setting".I lol'ed.
Machines in space need to keep their engines burning to move because rule of cool.
Well, it could be handled differently in zero G. Such as everything is treated as being "land". After all, even mechas that only have land speeds can move around in space.
Or just keeping a fixed energy cost per round for space combat if only to stabilize the movement, to actual stop moving forever. Stopping technically costs as much as going.
Considering hovering in place within an atmosphere has no actual cost, it may be a moot point, still.
Mechs are creaturesIt's been a point brought up often across the mech threads (mostly because I kept making that mistake) that a mecha is not a construct or any other kind of creature. They are objects.
does the mech's channeled-dragon's bite also gain poison?I had a ruling that a class ability (the Charisma Drain) that gives additional effects to a natural weapon can be applied on a mecha weapon that isn't a natural weapon through the Amplifier upgrade (though turns out that the ability doesn't apply to the natural weapons after all, but any weapon).
In order to actually need to expend enough energy to stand still in space, you would need to be affected by force greater than the gravity of a planet (since hovering costs nothing and we have already established that hovering outputs enough energy to cancel out gravity).I meant energy to stop moving mostly to cancel out the forces that makes it drift away; those used to move in the first place.
It's been a point brought up often across the mech threads (mostly because I kept making that mistake) that a mecha is not a construct or any other kind of creature. They are objects.By definition of an object/creature any mech with the Sentient upgrade is not through and that is a very important distinction that is often ignored.
I had a ruling that a class ability (the Charisma Drain) that gives additional effects to a natural weapon can be applied on a mecha weapon that isn't a natural weapon through the Amplifier upgrade (though turns out that the ability doesn't apply to the natural weapons after all, but any weapon).You may want to revisit that.
No, like said, only self buffs. Things that improve your attacks work, but abilities that affects other targets require an amplifier.
Basically if it's shooting/throwing something out there, you need an Amplifier, otherwise your mecha is supposed to be customized to take advantage of them or can be adapted on the fly for it.If your Class Feature is buffing your Natural Weapons, you don't need Amplifier.
Here's an interesting thought: whichever version of Gurren Lagann is at least the size of a planet cannot actually travel through space without attracting smaller planets/celestial bodies towards it, at least if they come within roughly 0,38 million kilometers of it.
By definition of an object/creature any mech with the Sentient upgrade is not through and that is a very important distinction that is often ignored.I thought so too and it was the main reason I had brought it up back then, but apparently not.
Quote from: Anomander...Also, once your mecha gains sentience, would it be considered weird, or maybe even a little creepy, to have relationship feats with your mecha as the target?Mechas, even if sentient, just as intelligent equipment are not individuals.
If your Class Feature is buffing your Natural Weapons, you don't need Amplifier.Correct. The ruling was to have it applied to an arsenal/built-in weapon instead of a natural weapon. Otherwise it wouldn't have been needed.
... is my mecha a creature or object? I think it has two Sentient upgrades. :lmaoA sentient mech is a living Mindless-Creature according to it's Ability Scores and the RC reenforces the concept that a you cannot be a creature & an object at the same time.
I thought so too and it was the main reason I had brought it up back then, but apparently not.Osl has a history of not knowing D&D's rules and very poorly writing his own but it actually it appears you misread it.
And as we can see his statement says they are creatures, because Intelligent Magic Items are, and then he denies them individualism preventing you from forming a relationship with it....Also, once your mecha gains sentience, would it be considered weird, or maybe even a little creepy, to have relationship feats with your mecha as the target?Mechas, even if sentient, just as intelligent equipment are not individuals.
... is my mecha a creature or object? I think it has two Sentient upgrades. :lmaoObject.
Here's an interesting thought: whichever version of Gurren Lagann is at least the size of a planet cannot actually travel through space without attracting smaller planets/celestial bodies towards it, at least if they come within roughly 0,38 million kilometers of it.
Cathedral Terra/Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann. Also Diebuster and Getter Emperor are that size off the top of my head.
Osl has a history of not knowing D&D's rules and very poorly writing his own but it actually it appears you misread it.Ok so you didn't, Osl just doesn't know what he's talking about.
Here's an interesting thought: whichever version of Gurren Lagann is at least the size of a planet cannot actually travel through space without attracting smaller planets/celestial bodies towards it, at least if they come within roughly 0,38 million kilometers of it.
Cathedral Terra/Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann. Also Diebuster and Getter Emperor are that size off the top of my head.
Last warning, any more discussion about real world physics and the campaign will change to undead catgirl apocalypse.
Ok so you didn't, Osl just doesn't know what he's talking about.Could do with less aggressivity. Intelligent items being creatures isn't exactly common knowledge. Especially considering the lack of any HD whatsoever.
As usual, D&D does not scale well with size... :lmaoActually that's real life for you, giant humans would crush them selves.
What if you Awaken Construct an object affected with Animate Objects if said object is a mecha? :lmaoPfft, as a Object it has a Hardness rating (not DR) and it takes 1/2 damage from Piercing/Cold/Fire and there are plenty of buffs out there to increase or even double your Hardness. It still won't help you against Disintegrate through, which can wipe 10cumu of your mech from existence (target the cockpit!). Also, even as Imprinted & Sentient it's apparently still an object making it virtually immune to most Spells, Maneuvers, and effects in the game. Like why does it need a Save Bonus against being Stunned? It's immune to Stun. Hell, as a carried or worn object you can't even attack the mech without using a Sunder Action, just beat the pilots up directly. >.>
They wouldn't because MINOVSKY PARTICLESAnd that's also the explanation how an Object has a Creature Type ;)
As usual, D&D does not scale well with size... :lmaoActually that's real life for you, giant humans would crush them selves.
Yeah, the issue with D&D is that they scale carrying capacity and weight incorrectly. It should be going up by factors of 8, not doubling.You're forgetting that normally Strength increases when you increase Size.
Sorry. I mixed up two spells. Animate Objects and Awaken Construct.
What if you Awaken Construct an object affected with Animate Objects if said object is a mecha? :lmao
I decided to do some maths for carrying capacity. Amaterasu's maximum load is 66,560lb, or about 33 tons. The mecha's a full three size categories bigger, and it seems to be a doubling for every extra size category... so... 260ish tons. The mecha itself is about 560'ish tall, so bigger than early battleships.
Yet they weigh over 10,000 tons. Even a medium mecha's probably in the 150-200ish range. So... almost no mecha has the strength to lift another one. :D
As usual, D&D does not scale well with size... :lmao
That and also a common point of mechas is that they're made of very light materials.All Scifi things use made up lighter/tougher-than-steel as an easy explanation and in D&D we actually have such materials printed already :D
Hey, carrying capacity is a game mechanic and working out if something is liftable is entirely reasonable. Of course I'm going to use ships as a basis: most other vehicles are squarer and I didn't assume mecha were made out of balsa wood and balloons. :p
Other people can help the operation process by attempting a DC 15 Heal check, (This assistance is non-stressful and fairly simple, and these assistants may take 10). Each successful Heal check grants the Character a +2 bonus to its Will save at the end of the Ritual. These assistants must partake in the 24 hour ritual. People wanting to play safe will hire several experts to assist the ritual.it's pretty much impossible to fail. It's 3sp per day for a trained hireling who presumably has at least 4 ranks and either a masterwork tool or 12 wisdom allowing them to auto-succeed. So for 3gp you can gain a +20 bonus :p
perfectly sane and intelligentMost of the discussions following such undertakings probably ended with the mantra "For science".
Also the materials list is hilarious. I question why perfectly sane and intelligent characters are allowed to attach body parts made of food to themselves.Isn't all meat food to someone higher up on the chain?
Amaterasu would look astonishing as a half-birthday cake golem.Seconded.
Hugo believes she would look even more astonishing as the girl who jumps out of the birthday cake. *runs*Amaterasu would look astonishing as a half-birthday cake golem.Seconded.
Hugo believes she would look even more astonishing as the girl who jumps out of the birthday cake. *runs*I think it's settled, Kathrine needs more cake.
any costs associated with pure metalsI believe up to Masterwork is immediately available. And as I understand it...
I thought you couldn't do enhancement bonuses to pure metal? That was kinda the point of it right?
Where are you pulling those numbers from? I was certain there'd be an extra cost over normal MW, but I don't know what post you're referencing for said price.*looks back on it*
Pure Metal items cannot be further enanched or changed by any kind of magic or special crafting methods.So you can't Enhance them anyway.
Yeah, I was just wondering if there was any sort of additional surcharge for buying the Pure Metal version in this campaign.Someone asked a few pages ago about hte availability of Pure Metal items and they were capped at a certain level. Maybe I can find the post...
Rainy, your inbox is full. So here's my response :p
So I've basically discovered all the crafting prices for pure metal items are supposed to be tripled if sold on the market because it works just like mundane crafting where crafting price is 1/3 market price.
Phantasmwork anything is 210k gold ignoring epic rules for breaking 200k.
In Os' game we have access to any kind of pure metal, but only up to masterwork quality. Comes out to 900gp plus normal weapon's cost for any masterwork pure metal item or 750gp plus base armor cost for any pure metal armor of masterwork quality.
I think he said the option to commission higher grade stuff was around, too.
Lol, I like how our confusion on this page was already addressed a page or two ago :P
If everyone gets +6 Attack, the enemies are going to get +6ACIt'll have to come from somewhere. You'd get other number synergy beyond a straight AtK/AC boost, still. But if the issue is that everyone is getting it, then I can fix that no problem.
Universal constant boosts are the opposite of helpful. :TI'll respectfully disagree. Completely.
A Kill la Kill inspired PrC for RagamuffynsI suspected it was based off Kill la Kill but I wasn't sure whether it was an item or a PrC.
I suspected it was based off Kill la Kill but I wasn't sure whether it was an item or a PrC.Oh that's easy.
I suspected it was based off Kill la Kill but I wasn't sure whether it was an item or a PrC.Oh that's easy.
It's a construct with ability scores and it's own Special Abilities that is worn by a living character and bestows bonuses to them. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16306.0)
So it's an "object" ;)
Eh. Most uniforms in the show have no actual personality traits - Senketsu is pretty unique in that regard. So Senketsu is more of an intelligent magic item. Any restrictions on wearing the Kamui are typically of the cursed item variety.I suspected it was based off Kill la Kill but I wasn't sure whether it was an item or a PrC.Oh that's easy.
It's a construct with ability scores and it's own Special Abilities that is worn by a living character and bestows bonuses to them. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16306.0)
So it's an "object" ;)
Anyway, I'm still trying to work out equipment pricing.
I would assume that (due to the ability to upgrade Pure Metal* equipment later on) it only operates on the "base" cost of x2 Cold Iron whatever. Rather than applying the x2 and the x16 from size modifiers to the market costs. Need confirmation, though.
*It's called Pure Crafting, why no wood or anything? :lmao
Anyway, I'm still trying to work out equipment pricing.
I would assume that (due to the ability to upgrade Pure Metal* equipment later on) it only operates on the "base" cost of x2 Cold Iron whatever. Rather than applying the x2 and the x16 from size modifiers to the market costs. Need confirmation, though.
x2 cost of Cold Iron only applies to the base weapon. The x16 size modifier applies to everything though.
It's not arbitrary, simply to make it less effective for super big and super small creatures so that giants and titans and whatnot don't all rush to get full pure metal bling right away. Again, the main objective was to give more effective gear to mundane humie warriors.
I didn't want to punish humie warriors for going for more exotic materials, just that.
Though I'm still confused that having that much more pure metal doesn't lead to an even larger materials cost.Psst, that's the point of the Size Modifiers for armor cost, it takes more material to cover a 32ft tall creature than it would to cover an eight footer :p
Though I'm still confused that having that much more pure metal doesn't lead to an even larger materials cost.Psst, that's the point of the Size Modifiers for armor cost, it takes more material to cover a 32ft tall creature than it would to cover an eight footer :p
I've got a materials cost of x2.x16 size multiplier is applied last after all other costs, including MW. Sharpening a huge pure metal sword is gonna take a lot more resources than a medium sized one.
And a size cost of x16.
So, normally, cost is x32 and MW is a flat increase.
But with special metal the MW cost and base cost are x16 but the materials cost is still x2 of the normal base cost? @_@
Her current mandate as an Administrator was to help get the colons to leave the ship and settle on Ragol, after all.
our characters could pay it the service and expensesand not that they'd just be taking it. :p
Gosh I'd completely forgotten that happened...No, he has a mohawk (http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/522/13).
And wasn't it the bald spear guy?
Oh, yeah, I never cared to read the manga. Barely cared to watch the anime to the end -_-'Bleach started strong, had a horrible filler, then repeated it's self, finally climaxed, and then kept going, and rushed some elements that would have been better in a light novel of something, and then it had a whole other third major arc (manga-only), with an increased amount of trolling to try and stay interesting, and then it became canceled and had to rush things. >.>
Hmm, is there a bar on this station that has enough to get someone like this inebriated...
Since that's what mercenaries do when they get paid, right? :lmao
Hmm, is there a bar on this station that has enough to get someone like this inebriated...
Since that's what mercenaries do when they get paid, right? :lmao
The local church of light prides itself in sharing the strongest spirits on the ship as long as you make a proper donation. :p
Gosh I hate you Soro. Now I've started reading the manga right from where that page you linked started from :shakefistlol, at least it's done. You don't have to wait 2~4 weeks while Tite is in the hospital immediately following Golden Week just to know who didn't die in the last cliff hanger.
Does "I'm a star, bitch" count as a donation? :P
(click to show/hide)
Also what happens if a Support Staff builds a Turret on an asteroid?I had the very same idea. :p
Does this ship has an Omura Company center?Does it? Pretty sure Mao would know this.
Yes, it even has big neon signs and runs ads all over the ship.QuoteDoes this ship has an Omura Company center?Does it? Pretty sure Mao would know this.
Also, do your games have Int increases retroactively applying to skill points? I forgot.No.
10,000 square miles seems more than a bit excessive for one base. It's far more than enough for an entire army depending on the level of mobilisation... <_>
Area of the first big asteroid that came to mind (the one at the end of the Cretaceous) would've been ~500 square kilometres, so making it somewhat lower would probably not greatly change things.
I think of it as more 10,000 square miles is just the land grab and the physical base's building is a lot smaller.
Yanno, like how real world military bases are not build smack dab in the middle of a packed city but out in the middle of nowhere where they can adjudicate themselves having absolutely nothing else nearby that can be used to snoop on the base. It makes security easier when your base is surrounded by nothing but empty space so nobody is coming up on that unannounced. Or down in the middle of a heavy jungle that naturally hides the base from far-spying eyes and/or satellites. If nobody knows it's there, nobody'll know when the people guarding the base just up and murder people for getting to close and publicly chalk it up to "got lost and probably eaten by wild animals".
If I had gone any lower now I would have to deal with suggestions of just cramming bases inside their character's pockets or someone wanting to use bases as ammo for weaponsI like the idea but honestly who cares? With a capped none-Epic Leadership Score of 25 you can only have four turrets for 8d12*4, that's 208 damage but totally useless if the target is within 300mu. Four 4th level Super Pilots can use Growth, Extra, Tank Mode, and Mighty x3 for 1d10+1d6+6+DexMod*3*4 for 180+ damage, if they have 16 Dex they deal more and they can most of the weapon addons as well. But unlike the turrets they can fire at anyone near by and you know, punch people in the face, split into dozens of clones, hell they could even use Maneuvers.
I think of it as more 10,000 square miles is just the land grab and the physical base's building is a lot smaller.
Yanno, like how real world military bases are not build smack dab in the middle of a packed city but out in the middle of nowhere where they can adjudicate themselves having absolutely nothing else nearby that can be used to snoop on the base. It makes security easier when your base is surrounded by nothing but empty space so nobody is coming up on that unannounced. Or down in the middle of a heavy jungle that naturally hides the base from far-spying eyes and/or satellites. If nobody knows it's there, nobody'll know when the people guarding the base just up and murder people for getting to close and publicly chalk it up to "got lost and probably eaten by wild animals".
Now that depends what the purpose of the base is.
No it doesn't :P Because everyone in dnd that has a base of operations is paranoid about this shit~Word.
Turrets only take time and space to build, and are gained as a sub-option of a secondary ability of the support staff. Yes, they're not supposed to keep up with damage of other classes burning their actual class resources into damage.If I had gone any lower now I would have to deal with suggestions of just cramming bases inside their character's pockets or someone wanting to use bases as ammo for weaponsI like the idea but honestly who cares? With a capped none-Epic Leadership Score of 25 you can only have four turrets for 8d12*4, that's 208 damage but totally useless if the target is within 300mu. Four 4th level Super Pilots can use Growth, Extra, Tank Mode, and Mighty x3 for 1d10+1d6+6+DexMod*3*4 for 180+ damage, if they have 16 Dex they deal more and they can most of the weapon addons as well. But unlike the turrets they can fire at anyone near by and you know, punch people in the face, split into dozens of clones, hell they could even use Maneuvers.
The main deal is the 10,000 square miles through 300mu range. That's 8,799,700mu of covered range making it utterly impossible for anything to come near it. Like take that 4th level Turret vs a 20th level Ship Captain, assuming they waste their precious 6th level Arsenal Slot on Trombe they have 360mu/rnd without having to stop for energy recharging and it has 46 DR. A 4th level Turret deals a Rending 8d12, or 6 after DR. Ships have 100 energy, lose 10 per hit, and have no Energy Regen by default and the Captain them selves can only regenerate their Spirit once per fifty rounds. Assuming they get three full energy regens off they sustain 120 damage every 18,000mu traveled, they need to burn additional resources to survive the 58,560 damage the Ship will take just trying to approach a Turret one fifth it's level. One low level Turret has rendered space invasions impossible.-Turrets auto-target closest, so that's why, instead of your space carrier, your vanguard should consist of either expendable mooks or the tough regenerating dude or high AC spec ahead to bait shots. A Real could spam Alert every round forever with Spirit Regen.
Turrets only take time and space to build, and are gained as a sub-option of a secondary ability of the support staff. Yes, they're not supposed to keep up with damage of other classes burning their actual class resources into damage.That's kind of my point in that area. >.>
-Turrets auto-target closest, so that's why, instead of your space carrier, your vanguard should consist of either expendable mooks or the tough regenerating dude or high AC spec ahead to bait shots.Doesn't matter. Like wise bringing up Alert is pointless since even Leadership can give you four of these and you still have four other, higher-level, Followers to choose supply bases and such. Heck in Bahamut's case Atomic Temple doubles this and we're talking about a single character here, not a civilization over a hundred thousand people strong currently worried if another fraction is going to attack them or not or how a planet support several tens of thousands of these even at the noted "too high" land consumption rate. And wondering why a 20th level Ship Captain is fighting a 4th level Turret is really just you missing the point: All you need is a single lv4 Torrent to successfully fend a 20th level character off.
And if we raise the bar a bit to 7th or 10th level, suddenly teleportation doesn't let you solve the range issue because they can have covering fields of fire, from the look of things.Yep, the turrets can overlap each other in certain circumstances, like it's unclear if they have to be in the exact center of the area, a 20kx20k area could have four turrets sitting 300mu away from each other allowing three of them to gun down anyone attacking the fourth which is the ideal way to build them on a two dimensional plane. But you also can move into three dimensional mapping where ten thousand square anything can be fit multiple times into a cubic measurement, such as mountainous terrain may be several thousand miles on foot but as the crow flies if could only be half of that, or you know. Asteroids.
And by working off of "can hit anything within this area" rather than any actual range, you open the path for some very strange and problematic layouts.
A 10,000 square mile tunnel deathtrap, for one. Though actually establishing that would be worth it.
Speaking of, I've been meaning to ask. Do spells such as Ray Deflection and Wind Wall have ANY effect at all on lasers and bullets? If not, which ones do, and how does one manage to get a sizeable protection to or immunity against Force?I could have sworn I told you about Forceward (https://dndtools.net/spells/spell-compendium--86/forceward--3795/) in the PMs.
If the answer to 'how does a level 20 character get to a level 4 character' is 'constantly spam perfect defences whilst sitting on another level 20 character's face' or 'major infiltration mission', the return on investment is probably too high.Thing is, if all you do is spam turrets, the other side spams factories and can just focus their mobile forces to zerg rush out your static defenses one at a time.
And if we raise the bar a bit to 7th or 10th level, suddenly teleportation doesn't let you solve the range issue because they can have covering fields of fire, from the look of things.
Speaking of, I've been meaning to ask. Do spells such as Ray Deflection and Wind Wall have ANY effect at all on lasers and bullets?No.
If not, which ones do, and how does one manage to get a sizeable protection to or immunity against Force?Get AC buffs and miss chances?
And if we raise the bar a bit to 7th or 10th level, suddenly teleportation doesn't let you solve the range issue because they can have covering fields of fire, from the look of things.Yep, the turrets can overlap each other in certain circumstances, like it's unclear if they have to be in the exact center of the area, a 20kx20k area could have four turrets sitting 300mu away from each other allowing three of them to gun down anyone attacking the fourth which is the ideal way to build them on a two dimensional plane. But you also can move into three dimensional mapping where ten thousand square anything can be fit multiple times into a cubic measurement, such as mountainous terrain may be several thousand miles on foot but as the crow flies if could only be half of that, or you know. Asteroids.
And we don't even know how to drive a car
If the answer to 'how does a level 20 character get to a level 4 character' is 'constantly spam perfect defences whilst sitting on another level 20 character's face' or 'major infiltration mission', the return on investment is probably too high.Thing is, if all you do is spam turrets, the other side spams factories and can just focus their mobile forces to zerg rush out your static defenses one at a time.
And if we raise the bar a bit to 7th or 10th level, suddenly teleportation doesn't let you solve the range issue because they can have covering fields of fire, from the look of things.
Also spirit regen+Alert can be done quite early, and a super robot can easily get damage to 1/4 early on with Defend+Support Defense.
I'm pretty sure none of the players here knows how to drive a chariot either.Wanna bet? :smirk
If anything, if there are turrets, it means there are no factories churning out reinforcements.You've never played an RTS have you?
If the turret is not at the center of the base, it also means you can go around the perimeter and have an easier time getting into its blind spot.
While not taking a position in this, wouldn't factories be their own base and so not benefit from fortifications? They'd be more vulnerable than a base with turrets. The way it is currently set it seems you cannot make a fortified factory even if you spend two "base" abilities on a single base area (since all such areas can only support a single base).
If the turret is not at the center of the base, it also means you can go around the perimeter and have an easier time getting into its blind spot.
A feat that makes no sense.
How can I have a turret that is able to fire at 10,000 miles or more with the same accuracy as at effective point blank... and at the same time, because of positioning, have a minimum range in the other direction of 30' to 60' or something similarly ridiculous.
If the turret is not at the center of the base, it also means you can go around the perimeter and have an easier time getting into its blind spot.
A feat that makes no sense.
How can I have a turret that is able to fire at 10,000 miles or more with the same accuracy as at effective point blank... and at the same time, because of positioning, have a minimum range in the other direction of 30' to 60' or something similarly ridiculous.
It's called hyper specialization. The turret is carefully calibrated for firing at certain set of angles and distances from its position, and cannot aim at all at anything outside its parameters.
Do notice that this means turrets from one base cannot fire into another base's area, and even a 20th level support staff can only cram 20 turrets to support each other assuming they don't build anything else in that fortification.
Also the reason why you can't just rip it off and carry around. Would only render useless all the careful calibrations and now it can't hit anything at all.
That's just overcomplicating it.
10 mile range increments (with or without any accuracy dropoffs) covers you from the centre to the edge of an average-sized base and without strangely shaped bases getting far better range on their turrets. Still useless picked up because you just tore it away from any controls or power source.
I don't see how it matters too much if it could fire into another base: acquiring contiguous plots of 10,000 square miles and establishing a network of bases doesn't seem terribly easy. Less so when right next to an enemy you might want to shoot: they're going to need to be pretty dim to not notice the land acquisition and 24 hour turret construction happening conveniently within range.
That's just overcomplicating it.
10 mile range increments (with or without any accuracy dropoffs) covers you from the centre to the edge of an average-sized base and without strangely shaped bases getting far better range on their turrets. Still useless picked up because you just tore it away from any controls or power source.
I don't see how it matters too much if it could fire into another base: acquiring contiguous plots of 10,000 square miles and establishing a network of bases doesn't seem terribly easy. Less so when right next to an enemy you might want to shoot: they're going to need to be pretty dim to not notice the land acquisition and 24 hour turret construction happening conveniently within range.
It matters because it's the difference between getting focus fired by ~10 turrets or ~100 turrets when you go to assault enemy land.
It is also a lot more complicated. Whereas with the hyperspecialized turrets you just need to determine the base's area and you automatically know where any and all turrets can fire, all-range turrets means an exponentially more complicated problem where you need to individually calculate each turret's firing range, and then rewards fortifications with lots of weird pointy extensions to maximize the area they can shoot at. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastion_fort)
You mean like being USA/China/Russia/India/Brasil/Australia? Or the part where most European countries have a defensive alliance and they would shoot anyone trying to invade their neighbours? Or that we're talking about a futuristic setting where whole planets may be under a single government plus fortified moons and big asteroids and whatnot?That's just overcomplicating it.
10 mile range increments (with or without any accuracy dropoffs) covers you from the centre to the edge of an average-sized base and without strangely shaped bases getting far better range on their turrets. Still useless picked up because you just tore it away from any controls or power source.
I don't see how it matters too much if it could fire into another base: acquiring contiguous plots of 10,000 square miles and establishing a network of bases doesn't seem terribly easy. Less so when right next to an enemy you might want to shoot: they're going to need to be pretty dim to not notice the land acquisition and 24 hour turret construction happening conveniently within range.
It matters because it's the difference between getting focus fired by ~10 turrets or ~100 turrets when you go to assault enemy land.
I don't see how the number of turrets hitting you can suddenly go up by an entire order of magnitude by introducing actual range mechanics. For that to be the case, the range would have to be set incredibly high and all the turrets focused along one particular path of entry... which actually provides a much better tactical option for breaking through the lines of turrets, since this means that in the multiple overlapping 10,000 square mile areas, there's got to be huge area with no coverage at all (the Maginot Line comes to mind). Rather than the "can arbitrarily shoot anywhere in this area" option of being able, at best, to avoid being shot by one of them.
And unless the areas are for no valid reason being arranged so that the majority of the area is far away from the front lines but they have a single tendril of land to stick turrets on, because rules can't really be made to prevent such blatantly idiotic DMing, there's not really an issue. Multiple bases are already requiring you to control land equal to entire European countries. <_<
QuoteIt is also a lot more complicated. Whereas with the hyperspecialized turrets you just need to determine the base's area and you automatically know where any and all turrets can fire, all-range turrets means an exponentially more complicated problem where you need to individually calculate each turret's firing range, and then rewards fortifications with lots of weird pointy extensions to maximize the area they can shoot at. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastion_fort)
It means getting a compass, or virtual equivalent, which is a lot less complicated than working out the range and spell effects for a mid-level wizard's spells given that they keep moving and the land, presumably, does not. And actually leaves room for cover or inconvenient mountains to have a purpose.
Rewarding fortification design that actually resembles some sort of fortification, rather than having your turrets be as unsupported as possible, does not look like a bad thing.
What we have right now isn't a turret, it's the world's worst targeting laser for some really bad orbital cannons.
You mean like being USA/China/Russia/India/Brasil/Australia? Or the part where most European countries have a defensive alliance and they would shoot anyone trying to invade their neighbours? Or that we're talking about a futuristic setting where whole planets may be under a single government plus fortified moons and big asteroids and whatnot?That's just overcomplicating it.
10 mile range increments (with or without any accuracy dropoffs) covers you from the centre to the edge of an average-sized base and without strangely shaped bases getting far better range on their turrets. Still useless picked up because you just tore it away from any controls or power source.
I don't see how it matters too much if it could fire into another base: acquiring contiguous plots of 10,000 square miles and establishing a network of bases doesn't seem terribly easy. Less so when right next to an enemy you might want to shoot: they're going to need to be pretty dim to not notice the land acquisition and 24 hour turret construction happening conveniently within range.
It matters because it's the difference between getting focus fired by ~10 turrets or ~100 turrets when you go to assault enemy land.
I don't see how the number of turrets hitting you can suddenly go up by an entire order of magnitude by introducing actual range mechanics. For that to be the case, the range would have to be set incredibly high and all the turrets focused along one particular path of entry... which actually provides a much better tactical option for breaking through the lines of turrets, since this means that in the multiple overlapping 10,000 square mile areas, there's got to be huge area with no coverage at all (the Maginot Line comes to mind). Rather than the "can arbitrarily shoot anywhere in this area" option of being able, at best, to avoid being shot by one of them.
And unless the areas are for no valid reason being arranged so that the majority of the area is far away from the front lines but they have a single tendril of land to stick turrets on, because rules can't really be made to prevent such blatantly idiotic DMing, there's not really an issue. Multiple bases are already requiring you to control land equal to entire European countries. <_<
The Maginot line is remembered as one of the most epic failures of fortification design. The country that built it was defeated and conquered faster than it had ever been before. It's as far away from "a much better tactical option" as you could possibly go as far as fortifications with big guns go.
[/quote]QuoteIt is also a lot more complicated. Whereas with the hyperspecialized turrets you just need to determine the base's area and you automatically know where any and all turrets can fire, all-range turrets means an exponentially more complicated problem where you need to individually calculate each turret's firing range, and then rewards fortifications with lots of weird pointy extensions to maximize the area they can shoot at. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastion_fort)
It means getting a compass, or virtual equivalent, which is a lot less complicated than working out the range and spell effects for a mid-level wizard's spells given that they keep moving and the land, presumably, does not. And actually leaves room for cover or inconvenient mountains to have a purpose.
Rewarding fortification design that actually resembles some sort of fortification, rather than having your turrets be as unsupported as possible, does not look like a bad thing.
What we have right now isn't a turret, it's the world's worst targeting laser for some really bad orbital cannons.
There appears to be some confusion here. Interceptor turrets don't get to ignore line of effect. They can auto-detect targets, but if there's a mountain or some other big cover between them shots will still be blocked.
Anyway yes, needing to draw a bunch of extra circles is considerably more complicated than not needing to draw any extra circles at all.
(nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)Unless you're small enough.
Quote(nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)Unless you're small enough.
Maybe there are jammers that can help, though maybe not yet. Anyway, bases are usually captured by armies and armies are normally hard to hide.
You can also sneak to a tower using one of the most basic espionage tactics; disguises. It is not because it can detect you that it cannot be fooled into thinking you are a neutral/allied unit. There is even a lvl 2 arsenal accessory to disguise your mecha.
Unless it somehow automatically knows what is an enemy and what isn't. Which would be weird.
That difference is likely programmed to it in a way similar to how some trap spells work.
In game that is also probably something that can be tempered with. Disable Device, so on and so forth. What's its Spot modifier to defeat a disguise? Without one it more or less automatically fails against a mere level 1 rogue waltzing to it with an electrician box checking in for "maintenance".
I recall suggesting a range that would give the turrets an area they can fire in that would, in general, only reach halfway through an adjacent base... if they were right on the border. By modern standards, it's remarkably impressive for an effective projectile--which would manage about a 30 mile range at best once an hour. You're arguing based on being able to overlap the turrets from multiple bases to provide a vast amount of cover to one area.Indeed, the idea is to keep it simple, having turrets that actually pose a threat that isn't easily ignorable without turning SRW d20 into siege warfare simulator.
Which would lead straight to the Maginot Line. That's a tactical opportunity for those trying to breech the defences! The current rules make all avenues of attack identical and all concept of a tactical advance beyond "negate it entirely" meaningless the instant there's two guns that can perfectly cover each other.
But sure, if you want to have a 1,000 mile range increment, you'd have problems.
QuoteThere appears to be some confusion here. Interceptor turrets don't get to ignore line of effect. They can auto-detect targets, but if there's a mountain or some other big cover between them shots will still be blocked.
Anyway yes, needing to draw a bunch of extra circles is considerably more complicated than not needing to draw any extra circles at all.
Then you should actually include that in the ability description, as they don't seem to operate caring about LoS or LoE at all due to the auto-detecting anything in the area and ignoring all miss chances (nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)
Slightly more complicated if you're actually bothering to plan out the base in any way at all. It's not exponentially more complicated. It's not even more complicated than working out where to put walls to give defensive bonuses at certain levels, or how much you can surround with walls.
Question on those towers; how high are they? They are treated as colossal but they have a 30x30mu base and towers rarely qualify as towers when they are shaped like a cube.Advanced interceptor turret technology is most efficient with 30 mu tall cubic shapes.
I'm wondering how high the surface to build upon would have to be above sea level to get all of the the horizon in sight to be within its firing range on an Earth-like planet.
Though it may be that those towers can shoot stuff beyond the horizon, the shots following the curvature of the planet and so on.
Not that I'm planning to have one done. Just wondering.
Quote(nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)Unless you're small enough.
Maybe there are jammers that can help, though maybe not yet. Anyway, bases are usually captured by armies and armies are normally hard to hide.
You can also sneak to a tower using one of the most basic espionage tactics; disguises. It is not because it can detect you that it cannot be fooled into thinking you are a neutral/allied unit. There is even a lvl 2 arsenal accessory to disguise your mecha.
Unless it somehow automatically knows what is an enemy and what isn't. Which would be weird.
That difference is likely programmed to it in a way similar to how some trap spells work.
In game that is also probably something that can be tempered with. Disable Device, so on and so forth. What's its Spot modifier to defeat a disguise? Without one it more or less automatically fails against a mere level 1 rogue waltzing to it with an electrician box checking in for "maintenance".
I recall suggesting a range that would give the turrets an area they can fire in that would, in general, only reach halfway through an adjacent base... if they were right on the border. By modern standards, it's remarkably impressive for an effective projectile--which would manage about a 30 mile range at best once an hour. You're arguing based on being able to overlap the turrets from multiple bases to provide a vast amount of cover to one area.Indeed, the idea is to keep it simple, having turrets that actually pose a threat that isn't easily ignorable without turning SRW d20 into siege warfare simulator.
Which would lead straight to the Maginot Line. That's a tactical opportunity for those trying to breech the defences! The current rules make all avenues of attack identical and all concept of a tactical advance beyond "negate it entirely" meaningless the instant there's two guns that can perfectly cover each other.
But sure, if you want to have a 1,000 mile range increment, you'd have problems.
QuoteThere appears to be some confusion here. Interceptor turrets don't get to ignore line of effect. They can auto-detect targets, but if there's a mountain or some other big cover between them shots will still be blocked.
Anyway yes, needing to draw a bunch of extra circles is considerably more complicated than not needing to draw any extra circles at all.
Then you should actually include that in the ability description, as they don't seem to operate caring about LoS or LoE at all due to the auto-detecting anything in the area and ignoring all miss chances (nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)
Slightly more complicated if you're actually bothering to plan out the base in any way at all. It's not exponentially more complicated. It's not even more complicated than working out where to put walls to give defensive bonuses at certain levels, or how much you can surround with walls.
If you cast Scry to find the position of someone behind a wall and cast True Strike, can you hit them behind the wall? I believe you can't.
Speaking of which, the turrets are objects, so they also block line of effect. So mechas that aren't too big can indeed take cover on their dead zones from other turrets. There's your tactical advance.
Super anti-stealth because turrets are immobile objects and thus can't take feats or items or whatnot and there's just too many stealth abilities around.
Also you were previously claiming that the current turret range is overcomplicating it. Yet you now admit your proposed system demands extra time and effort for drawing circles. You just admitted your system is the one that's actually more complicated.
I recall suggesting a range that would give the turrets an area they can fire in that would, in general, only reach halfway through an adjacent base... if they were right on the border. By modern standards, it's remarkably impressive for an effective projectile--which would manage about a 30 mile range at best once an hour. You're arguing based on being able to overlap the turrets from multiple bases to provide a vast amount of cover to one area.Indeed, the idea is to keep it simple, having turrets that actually pose a threat that isn't easily ignorable without turning SRW d20 into siege warfare simulator.
Which would lead straight to the Maginot Line. That's a tactical opportunity for those trying to breech the defences! The current rules make all avenues of attack identical and all concept of a tactical advance beyond "negate it entirely" meaningless the instant there's two guns that can perfectly cover each other.
But sure, if you want to have a 1,000 mile range increment, you'd have problems.
But by your own statements, they're easily ignorable provided you have the precise abilities that work against being shot repeatedly by the same thing. Or teleport past. If you don't. they're an impassable obstacle that will shred anyone trying to get close. Siege warfare or reasonable infiltration is better than a solution of "negate it or go on foot over a minimum of 50 miles".
My system:QuoteQuoteThere appears to be some confusion here. Interceptor turrets don't get to ignore line of effect. They can auto-detect targets, but if there's a mountain or some other big cover between them shots will still be blocked.
Anyway yes, needing to draw a bunch of extra circles is considerably more complicated than not needing to draw any extra circles at all.
Then you should actually include that in the ability description, as they don't seem to operate caring about LoS or LoE at all due to the auto-detecting anything in the area and ignoring all miss chances (nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)
Slightly more complicated if you're actually bothering to plan out the base in any way at all. It's not exponentially more complicated. It's not even more complicated than working out where to put walls to give defensive bonuses at certain levels, or how much you can surround with walls.
If you cast Scry to find the position of someone behind a wall and cast True Strike, can you hit them behind the wall? I believe you can't.
Speaking of which, the turrets are objects, so they also block line of effect. So mechas that aren't too big can indeed take cover on their dead zones from other turrets. There's your tactical advance.
Super anti-stealth because turrets are immobile objects and thus can't take feats or items or whatnot and there's just too many stealth abilities around.
Also you were previously claiming that the current turret range is overcomplicating it. Yet you now admit your proposed system demands extra time and effort for drawing circles. You just admitted your system is the one that's actually more complicated.
Well, the turrets are ranged weapons that don't obey normal ranged rules and automatically ignore being hidden (lovely, a level 4 turret can detect a level 20 with god knows how many points in move silently and hide) and instantly detect things that they don't have LoE to, so why would I ever assume that LoE applies to their own firing? But now that LoE does apply to their ability to fire things, they're operating on special rules and I still have to draw lines all over the map to work out where each turret can't fire anyway.
So just sticking to the normal ranged rules and giving them a spot score/see invisibility is simpler after all. It's not like there aren't already modifiers for different sizes... <_<
I recall suggesting a range that would give the turrets an area they can fire in that would, in general, only reach halfway through an adjacent base... if they were right on the border. By modern standards, it's remarkably impressive for an effective projectile--which would manage about a 30 mile range at best once an hour. You're arguing based on being able to overlap the turrets from multiple bases to provide a vast amount of cover to one area.Indeed, the idea is to keep it simple, having turrets that actually pose a threat that isn't easily ignorable without turning SRW d20 into siege warfare simulator.
Which would lead straight to the Maginot Line. That's a tactical opportunity for those trying to breech the defences! The current rules make all avenues of attack identical and all concept of a tactical advance beyond "negate it entirely" meaningless the instant there's two guns that can perfectly cover each other.
But sure, if you want to have a 1,000 mile range increment, you'd have problems.
But by your own statements, they're easily ignorable provided you have the precise abilities that work against being shot repeatedly by the same thing. Or teleport past. If you don't. they're an impassable obstacle that will shred anyone trying to get close. Siege warfare or reasonable infiltration is better than a solution of "negate it or go on foot over a minimum of 50 miles".
Infiltration is still possible with the current system. Heck, it'll be more once I finish updating the arsenal anti-radars.
Anyway yes, in mecha shows you don't take conquer fortifications by carefully calculating vectors of advance, you charge in guns blazing and either are tough/dodgy/numerous enough to survive the turrets or you end a pile of scrap (or, again, get some super weapon to nuke it from even further range, Ace Pilot has Ambush to snipe stuff at unlimited range starting at 11th level and everything).
[/quote]My system:QuoteQuoteThere appears to be some confusion here. Interceptor turrets don't get to ignore line of effect. They can auto-detect targets, but if there's a mountain or some other big cover between them shots will still be blocked.
Anyway yes, needing to draw a bunch of extra circles is considerably more complicated than not needing to draw any extra circles at all.
Then you should actually include that in the ability description, as they don't seem to operate caring about LoS or LoE at all due to the auto-detecting anything in the area and ignoring all miss chances (nice that this one ability > every stealth ability, really)
Slightly more complicated if you're actually bothering to plan out the base in any way at all. It's not exponentially more complicated. It's not even more complicated than working out where to put walls to give defensive bonuses at certain levels, or how much you can surround with walls.
If you cast Scry to find the position of someone behind a wall and cast True Strike, can you hit them behind the wall? I believe you can't.
Speaking of which, the turrets are objects, so they also block line of effect. So mechas that aren't too big can indeed take cover on their dead zones from other turrets. There's your tactical advance.
Super anti-stealth because turrets are immobile objects and thus can't take feats or items or whatnot and there's just too many stealth abilities around.
Also you were previously claiming that the current turret range is overcomplicating it. Yet you now admit your proposed system demands extra time and effort for drawing circles. You just admitted your system is the one that's actually more complicated.
Well, the turrets are ranged weapons that don't obey normal ranged rules and automatically ignore being hidden (lovely, a level 4 turret can detect a level 20 with god knows how many points in move silently and hide) and instantly detect things that they don't have LoE to, so why would I ever assume that LoE applies to their own firing? But now that LoE does apply to their ability to fire things, they're operating on special rules and I still have to draw lines all over the map to work out where each turret can't fire anyway.
So just sticking to the normal ranged rules and giving them a spot score/see invisibility is simpler after all. It's not like there aren't already modifiers for different sizes... <_<
1-Are they inside the base area?
2-Is there a valid LoE for each turret?
3-DAKKADAKKADAKKA!
Your system:
1-Check if they're in range of the turrets.
2-Still need to check LoE for each turret.
3-Roll listen for the turrets.
4-Roll spot against hide for each turret.
5-Roll spot against disguise for each turret.
6-DAKKADAKKADAKKA!
That's literally double the calculations involded. Assuming there's the same number of turrets in each scenario. But while one system caps at 20 turrets at 20th level, the other system can have hundreds of turrets in range if you cheese the areas of the bases.
Most of the genre doesn't totally abandon common sense and adopt "the best idea is to run at the strongest point". Some shows do, but that isn't enough to remove any concept of tactics entirely.Examples? Because even Gundam pilots often charge straight ahead when it comes to assaulting enemy fortresses.
Only if you're calculating it on the spot. If you worked it out in advance, which I would seriously hope you WOULD for both situations given that we're going from 30' squares to plotting at least 100 miles a side, then the steps are more like:That reminds me, with your system you also need to check for LoS. So just drop some fog or wait for a foggy day, add a Silence spell and done. Could be dragging a piece of cardboard. Could be illusions. I don't want to have to deal with illusions bullshit or cheap parlor tricks.
0) Roll disguise once if you can pretend to be the enemy.
1) Are they inside any targeted area (you need to compare for both systems anyway because of LoE, and having limited range actually makes it simpler with more varied terrain)
1A) Roll spot for turrets (group/individually, however) with turrets not auto-trumping anything but 1-point cheap mecha defences.
2) Fire
The only addition are any spot checks. Spot checks that mean that if you for some reason have a level 20 base, you can't defeat its defences as first level characters by being unarmoured and you can have a deadly boss lair you can't even get close to from the start. Modifiers work both ways.
Most of the genre doesn't totally abandon common sense and adopt "the best idea is to run at the strongest point". Some shows do, but that isn't enough to remove any concept of tactics entirely.Examples? Because even Gundam pilots often charge straight ahead when it comes to assaulting enemy fortresses.
McGillis just got killed running at the strongest point, true, but only when the other named dude with a mecha specifically built to counter him intercepted.
[/quote]Only if you're calculating it on the spot. If you worked it out in advance, which I would seriously hope you WOULD for both situations given that we're going from 30' squares to plotting at least 100 miles a side, then the steps are more like:That reminds me, with your system you also need to check for LoS. So just drop some fog or wait for a foggy day, add a Silence spell and done. Could be dragging a piece of cardboard. Could be illusions. I don't want to have to deal with illusions bullshit or cheap parlor tricks.
0) Roll disguise once if you can pretend to be the enemy.
1) Are they inside any targeted area (you need to compare for both systems anyway because of LoE, and having limited range actually makes it simpler with more varied terrain)
1A) Roll spot for turrets (group/individually, however) with turrets not auto-trumping anything but 1-point cheap mecha defences.
2) Fire
The only addition are any spot checks. Spot checks that mean that if you for some reason have a level 20 base, you can't defeat its defences as first level characters by being unarmoured and you can have a deadly boss lair you can't even get close to from the start. Modifiers work both ways.
Of course if you build nothing but turrets and leave zero guards, you deserve to be defeated by the unarmoured 1st level dudes.
Code Geass? And in a way, pretty much the finale of Gunbuster, given the plan there wasn't 'smash the defences to pieces' but 'get inside for a few seconds'.Lelouch was also purposely expending his troops for the coming military disarmament so really Code Geass doesn't count anyway.
Anyway, is Ayrk every going to speak?Not until you:
Not to mention how it's pretty mixed signels, Ckirk wanted to include it in the custom wiki he's setting up and you said it was fine. Did you just ban SRW wiki discussion in the SRW general discussion thread?
To avoid some future confusions.It may be worth your while to create a presentation blurb of no other editors in, perhaps the general rule section, given that two people have tried to add things and unlike the Improved Monster Classes you're picky about it.
Osle, not sure what roll, if any, would apply here. Hugo's basically pulling rank as an Intelligence agent. It's a jurisdiction issue.For what it sounds like, bargaining for their early escape and safe house access, it would be Diplomacy. But as an All-Skills deal maybe you can build circumstances, like a Knowledge(local)/GatherInfo Check to know the local loopholes better or something. Unfortunately Mr Intelligence Agent, it seems you didn't bother putting any Ranks in stuff like Profession(spy), or any of the Skills mentioned so far. :p
Notice how aside from Knowledge Local those are all skills tied to sucky scores? :P
Notice how aside from Knowledge Local those are all skills tied to sucky scores? :PYeah but the DCs for just about everything Skill wise are pretty low unless they are directly opposed. Like outside of IDing a creature's Special Abilities and specific weaknesses which specifically is scaled against their HD, Knowledge DCs cap out at 30 for "really tough questions" per it's entry in the DMG. Taken to the more baseline and in example, even 5 ranks, +2 circumstance for a tool, +2 synergy, and a -1 ability modifier can almost fulfill a "Challenging" DC level on average. Heck, intimate knowledge of the universes most broken tricks, like freebie Wish, is only dc 35 anyway it that helps put things into prospective.
Yeah, sorry. I meant to redo my sheet last weekend, but then I got laid...Congratulations?
Haha, thank you. :pYeah, sorry. I meant to redo my sheet last weekend, but then I got laid...Congratulations?
For determining Pilot level for other abilities, count full class level plus half the other levels for purposes of that class. So for example a Super 8/Real 4 would count as having PL 10 for other Super ability purposes and PL 6 for other Real ability purposes.So for example a Ship Captain 1 / Real Pilot 1 / Super Pilot 1 / Divine Pilot 1 with Real Divine is ECL 4. But it has a 3rd level Real Mech & Ship and both of them have 3rd level Super Upgrades applied. It has an IL of 3 giving it current Maneuvers and 2nd level Divine Spellcasting with a CL of 3. Taken to higher levels you could do Divine 2 / Real 10 for 4th level Spell Access, 7th level Super Upgrades applied to an 11th level Real Mech and you still have 6th level Maneuvers.
So for example a Ship Captain 1 / Real Pilot 1 / Super Pilot 1 / Divine Pilot 1 with Real Divine is ECL 4. But it has a 3rd level Real Mech & Ship and both of them have 3rd level Super Upgrades applied. It has an IL of 3 giving it current Maneuvers and 2nd level Divine Spellcasting with a CL of 3. Taken to higher levels you could do Divine 2 / Real 10 for 4th level Spell Access, 7th level Super Upgrades applied to an 11th level Real Mech and you still have 6th level Maneuvers.Not really.
The other class abilities such as Super Upgrades aren't calculated this way.Sounds like you missed something.
This is not a quote from the Real Pilot's Maneuver entry but the general multiclassing rules and it applies to everything not just class features.Quote from: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7157.0For determining Pilot level for other abilities, count full class level plus half the other levels for purposes of that class. So for example a Super 8/Real 4 would count as having PL 10 for other Super ability purposes and PL 6 for other Real ability purposes.
Count only Super Pilot levels for checking which upgrades are available.So it does not include them.
Each level of the Super Pilot class gives four Upgrade points. Those upgrade points can be spent in any of the following options. You cannot pick each option more times than your 1+(1/2 pilot level). Some options demand a certain level before they can be taken, as noted on the respective entry. You must spend all upgrade points as soon as you get them. If an upgrade doesnt have a listed cost, it simply costs 1 point.The number of points is based on actual class levels. Not pilot level. The number of picks per ability is based on pilot level, but that other quote about Super Pilot levels being the only ones that matter to determine which upgrades are available may trump it, which would make the use of the term "pilot level" instead of "super pilot level" redundant.
@Osle: Are those AIs mentioned sentient? It stands to reason that a society that acquired rights for androids would have laws made to defend the rights of artificial intelligences that have a sense of self, otherwise it would invalidate any claim to rights from any other artificial intelligence, including androids'. It would likely also lead to regulations on the creation of new sentient AIs. Similar to how there are regulations for the birth of humans.
That's very odd. An android is little more than an AI in a humanoid body. The position of the AI is the only difference between androids and other AIs.That assumes that the "issue" can be fixed. But so far no coder has managed to properly separate the bits that make androids so versatile and able to learn pretty much anything from the "issue" of eventually developing the will to do their own things. Not by lack of trying, again the Devastation War's conclusion happens because the androids being mass-produced with new elegant safeties illegally managed to break free anyway, and this time they had enough numeric superiority to just plain take over the planet.
A law is built upon defined terms and if androids only get rights if they were built between X and Y in time where they weren't created with a given set of parameters to control them better, it gives the androids very fragile grounds to work on for their legitimacy.
If all androids get rights because at some points they didn't get the right parameters put on them, but that issue is then fixed, then new androids have nothing to base their rights upon.
A sentient android that would fight for living creatures to recognize his rights would logically base the argument that they can be deemed responsible for their own actions and so should restrain themselves to include the rights of others so that their own rights be respected. So any AI that can control itself and is aware of itself could be accused of a crime because it chose to commit it.Most android sees other AIs like most humanoids see dogs/bees/octopi/raven/monkeys. Servants, pets, pests, resources, test subjects, lesser beings that have their uses, show surprising degrees of intelligence and may deserve some rights/protection/love, but when all is said and done, come second or third or lower and are expendable when the going gets tough.
There is a strong pragmatic component from the android's view, since there's always a lot of boring/suicidical tasks to be done that still demand some degree of versatility and improvisation. If every AI had rights then it would become a lot more expensive/messier to get those jobs done.Naturally though they wouldn't require to be programmed to have feelings or get an opinion about what they are tasked to do nor would they be able to refuse doing it. In that sense those are as good as any other tool as we treat them today. Tough... pragmaticality would soon lead to the question that since the AI that controls a humanoid body is not much different than one controlling anything else, whatever gave androids free will could very well happen to those other things. Which could similarly rebel.
and this time they had enough numeric superiority to just plain take over the planet.I agree with your take on it. Intelligent androids would capitalize on that luck to go far with their gain of rights. So that the acceptance of androids goes beyond a compliance won by force and have it become a cultural mainstreamed thing in much the same ways the medias fight racism and homophobia, which seems to be the case based on the campaign so far. Though, I suppose that screwed up as people are, it wouldn't be beyond humans to accept AI rights and tolerance of artificials only "as long as they look like us". There's aliens too and peeps like the artificially built Numan which gives another spin to the matter. Are they given the same rights as Humes and such?
QuoteThere is a strong pragmatic component from the android's view, since there's always a lot of boring/suicidical tasks to be done that still demand some degree of versatility and improvisation. If every AI had rights then it would become a lot more expensive/messier to get those jobs done.Naturally though they wouldn't require to be programmed to have feelings or get an opinion about what they are tasked to do nor would they be able to refuse doing it. In that sense those are as good as any other tool as we treat them today.
Tough... pragmaticality would soon lead to the question that since the AI that controls a humanoid body is not much different than one controlling anything else, whatever gave androids free will could very well happen to those other things. Which could similarly rebel.It indeed still happens sometimes. But not in big scales anymore. Androids were the first of their kind and thus mass produced like crazy, but nowadays the models that could realistically go awry are produced in too few numbers or have too short operating times to really start their own political movements. Some get private deals, some push their luck too much and end destroyed, some just keep quiet about their awakening and act like obedient servants most of the time while pursuing some personal objective.
It is a well known fact the mechanical maid models division played a critical part of the android rights propaganda. :pQuoteand this time they had enough numeric superiority to just plain take over the planet.I agree with your take on it. Intelligent androids would capitalize on that luck to go far with their gain of rights. So that the acceptance of androids goes beyond a compliance won by force and have it become a cultural mainstreamed thing in much the same ways the medias fight racism and homophobia, which seems to be the case based on the campaign so far. Though, I suppose that screwed up as people are, it wouldn't be beyond humans to accept AI rights and tolerance of artificials only "as long as they look like us".
There's aliens too and peeps like the artificially built Numan which gives another spin to the matter. Are they given the same rights as Humes and such?
Coders are perverts Emphatic interfaces go a long way to control consumers make people happier and safer. Lesser AIs often can simulate rivarly/friendship/devotion/love depending on their user to increase overall efficiency. Makes it less likely you'll leave the company if you can't chat with coffee-machine-chan anymore. Also warn you when you try to aim that mega beam at allied forces or the fuel deposit you're supposed to secure (note to self: design and standardize generic battle objectives besides "destroy everything") and if you are really sure you want to do that.Most of those indeed wouldn't require to be programmed to have feelings or get an opinion about what they are tasked to do nor would they be able to refuse doing it. Even the AIs of today can pull off most of those very well.
It indeed still happens sometimes. But not in big scales anymore. Androids were the first of their kind and thus mass produced like crazy, but nowadays the models that could realistically go awry are produced in too few numbers or have too short operating times to really start their own political movements. Some get private deals, some push their luck too much and end destroyed, some just keep quiet about their awakening and act like obedient servants most of the time while pursuing some personal objective.Agreed, though being aware that such events do occur would lead to those using such AI to take extra precautions and have systems set to quickly decide how to deal with it. If you have important systems managed even in part by such an AI, you don't want it to suddenly become unpredictable. They could manage safety settings or control stuff that cannot afford even a single mistake to occur, or otherwise lead to civilian deaths (eg. traffic management systems)
Numan have full rights nowadays, although it was a much messier affair with the whole "Nei rebellion" event in the past.
That reminds me. Will we ever get to see Hugo's ex? :PProbably, when she chooses to reveal how well off she is now. Like how her new rich husband knows how to shop for groceries, fold laundry, and wash the dishes like she claimed you couldn't in the divorce hearings.
Edit: Can I find a Retributive Amulet?If it's the MiC's version yeah probably due to all WotC official being allowed with a giant asterisk. Perhaps the better question is can you buy the BoED's more expensive and longer lasting version of the MiC's cheaper and limited version as some kind of Greater Retributive Amulet?
Edit: Gosh, MiC sure is disgusting with all of it's reprinted versions of actually nice stuff.To be fair, everyone complained it was broken to begin with. When they made their update they made a lot of items cheaper, and yes nerfed a few things as well as buffed a few things, in an attempt to increase availability. A cheaper, less broken, amulet is probably more likely to see tabletop play.
Anyone notice the Spoiler tag button is now like an atomic symbol? :lmaoAll radioactive content must be quarantined?
How on Earth are you going to fluff God for this? :lmaoEh, God is a function of firepower when it comes to anime and Phantasy Star specifically. :p
How on Earth are you going to fluff God for this? :lmaoEh, God is a function of firepower when it comes to anime and Phantasy Star specifically. :p
*points to Kath*How on Earth are you going to fluff God for this? :lmaoEh, God is a function of firepower when it comes to anime and Phantasy Star specifically. :p
I'm pretty certain nobody's worshipping me, and I don't have any lack of firepower. :P
How on Earth are you going to fluff God for this? :lmao
How on Earth are you going to fluff God for this? :lmaoEh, God is a function of firepower when it comes to anime and Phantasy Star specifically. :p
Eh?Pretty sure he means that items/abilities and such often have "God" as a prefix to indicate a certain level of efficacy.
I honestly don't know. Well that's what comes to mind immediately. It's more like my reason isn't completely solid. It comes down to my characters mom dying, getting a robot body, then getting a biological body that contains recessive "god genes". That combined with the experimentation makes her weird.Getting draconic powers should be relatively simple considering the amount of races/feats/items/classes/etc based on the notion that you channel dragon powers. Being a dragon/half-dragon/dragonborn/similar is simple enough. Depends on your concept and what you're trying to accomplish.
Still trying figure out how to give myself some sort of Dragon power.
Ikr? Not sure if I'm taking Paragon or no. Definitely taking Moon Vanguard, God and Super Pilot though.
I'm pretty certain nobody's worshipping me, and I don't have any lack of firepower. :P
*points to Kath*