Author Topic: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies  (Read 10082 times)


Offline altpersona

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well, i looked for this thread before PMing you...

looks like i missed it by a matter of seconds...

 :rolleyes

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Offline Garryl

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Thanks, I misremembered how Beholders works. Actually, they're in a pretty strange spot, as their flight is granted by a special quality (and not one that modifies their attacks), so I think even zombie beholders would lose it.

Offline Garryl

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Okay, I've covered the Monster Manual from A to C.

Note to self: Once I'm done, go back over them and add a pair of columns for a quick, 1-5 star, color-coded rating about how good a creature is for its HD as a skeleton or a zombie.

Offline Braininthejar

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Don't beholders become death tyrants?

There is a couple creatures like this that take more power to animate than usual, but become some special kind of undead.

Offline Garryl

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I'm not familiar with death tyrants. Do you know which book has them? It's not one in my very limited collection, but I can at least put a note about it. I plan to do the same thing for skeleton and zombie dragons (although, again, I don't know which book they're from).

Offline Stratovarius

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I'm not familiar with death tyrants. Do you know which book has them? It's not one in my very limited collection, but I can at least put a note about it. I plan to do the same thing for skeleton and zombie dragons (although, again, I don't know which book they're from).

Lords of Madness p42.

Offline Shadowhunter

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I'm not familiar with death tyrants. Do you know which book has them? It's not one in my very limited collection, but I can at least put a note about it. I plan to do the same thing for skeleton and zombie dragons (although, again, I don't know which book they're from).

Lords of Madness p42.

The only text dealing with Death Tyrants on that page is this:
Quote
Death Tyrant
These truly reprehensible creatures are
undead beholders akin to zombies, though
they retain some innate magical abilities.
These creatures are used by powerful wizards
as guardians; they are almost never encountered
near other beholders, who find them
abhorrent. Death tyrants are detailed on page
309 of the FORGOTTEN REALMSĀ® Campaign Setting.

Offline Stratovarius

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Yeah, I posted the page number from googling on the net. Unfortunately, the FRCS is just as useless as to the method of creation for a Death Tyrant. So they're an undead beholder that just magically appears in the service of the Wizards that use them. I presume Create Undead is involved, but there's no actual rules.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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+1 Garryl

How long has this been needed, like 16+ years ?!
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Kerrus

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 06:13:35 PM »
Thanks, I misremembered how Beholders works. Actually, they're in a pretty strange spot, as their flight is granted by a special quality (and not one that modifies their attacks), so I think even zombie beholders would lose it.

They don't. It's either a dragon magazine or one of the fiend folios mentions that you can make... basically an assault gunship out of an undead beholder, which flies around and spamfires eyebeams. Seats two.


EDIT: Fell Animate lets you create undead of up to twice your HD per single target, and up to twice your CL in total (if your CL is more than your HD, for instance). That opens some doors.

 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 06:21:40 PM by Kerrus »

Offline kitep

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2016, 07:51:46 PM »
EDIT: Fell Animate lets you create undead of up to twice your HD per single target, and up to twice your CL in total (if your CL is more than your HD, for instance). That opens some doors.

Lets you create *Zombies*.  Alas, you don't get to pick which undead is created.


Offline Braininthejar

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2016, 08:19:34 PM »
I'd swear I've seen some note on how to create a bone naga, but MM2 doesn't give any details...

Offline altpersona

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2016, 08:19:55 PM »
this is probably not the proper place for it....

but overall, while necros get a lot of board attention for the craziness wotc provided, i have not been impressed with the actual application or usefulness.

maybe im missing something...

seems like a lot of tedium for cannon fodder.
The goal of power is power. - 1984
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow
The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

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Offline altpersona

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2016, 08:23:19 PM »
Quote
A create undead spell can produce a bone naga from any naga subject with fewer Hit Dice than the creator.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040709a&page=4
The goal of power is power. - 1984
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow
The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga still sux.

Offline Solo

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2016, 11:14:14 PM »
this is probably not the proper place for it....

but overall, while necros get a lot of board attention for the craziness wotc provided, i have not been impressed with the actual application or usefulness.

maybe im missing something...

seems like a lot of tedium for cannon fodder.
How else would you be able to say "Charge, my undead minions! Save the orphans from that burning orphanage!"
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Garryl

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2016, 02:15:55 AM »
More progress through the Monster Manual tonight.

EDIT: Fell Animate lets you create undead of up to twice your HD per single target, and up to twice your CL in total (if your CL is more than your HD, for instance). That opens some doors.

Fell Animate, for reference.

Would Fell Animate bypass the 10 base HD limit on zombies that animate dead has? The feat references it, but only for the control pool, but it also has some things about only if a zombie can be animated and it's too late at night for me to actually think about anything.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2016, 10:41:37 PM »
this is probably not the proper place for it....

but overall, while necros get a lot of board attention for the craziness wotc provided, i have not been impressed with the actual application or usefulness.

maybe im missing something...

seems like a lot of tedium for cannon fodder.
A) let the man do his work. It's a good job so far!

B) I kind of agree, mainly because I see the main point of necro'ing to be a rebuke build. Nothing says power like rebuking -> commanding Strahd (no save) at level 6 :) Just follow my max rebuke build in my build compendium. You'll want to shuffle around the build order for level 6, but its all there.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2016, 12:28:45 AM »
I'm up to the letter H (MM page 142). Nearing the half-way mark.

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Unlimited Bone Works, a Discussion Thread about Skeletons and Zombies
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 10:51:44 AM »
The T-Rex is even worse than you think it is because the 3d6 damage on the bite attack is because it has the improved natural attack feat which it loses as a skeleton or zombie.
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.