Author Topic: Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: BRISTLE)  (Read 88973 times)

Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: BRISTLE)
« on: April 13, 2012, 10:17:31 PM »
FEEL FREE TO ADD YOUR OWN, BTW
I'LL BE MORE THE HAPPY TO LINK FROM THE FRONT PAGE
ANYTHING YOU POST


4/16/12: Updated after discovering a huge rule mistake Ray of Enfeeblement has been updated.
4/17/12: Skip to Chill Touch
4/20/12: Skip to Blade of Blood
4/24/12: Skip to Burning Hands
4/27/12: Skip to Conjuration (Healing), Hit Points, and You.
4/27/12: I moved Magic Missile to here to organize better.
5/1/12: He's BACK! And he's talking about Cloud of Knives
5/4/12: Skip to Bestow Curse
5/8/12: Skip to Disintegrate
5/15/12: Behold the horror of Flaming Sphere
5/20/12: The kids are after my lucky charms! (Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Fox’s Cunning, Eagle’s Splendor, Owl’s Wisdom, and Purple Horseshoes!)
5/21/12: You'll be hopping around on one foot after you read up on Caltrops
5/22/12: Break out the prilosec, because you'll have heartburn from this Acid Splash
5/29/12: Playing The Walking Dead Video Game has left me walking in an Acid Fog
6/1/12: Admiral Akbar says, "It's a Create Trap!"
6/5/12: Prepare to be underwhelmed by Affliction
6/8/12: Your ears will be bleeding when you hear about Sonic Snap.
6/12/12: This is taking too long. Will someone come to my Aid?
6/13/12: My inner child wants me to not be so Negative Levels
6/18/12: I know I haven't posted a spell in a while. I have an Alibi. Allow me to Amplify my voice as I explain to you how the spell Fireball got under my Barkskin. I guess I just needed a properly Aligned Aura
6/21/12: The hand is slower then my Prestidigitation
6/25/12: Sorry I've been slow to post. Work has been a real Backbiter
6/27/12: To get off Hoth you will have to run the imperial Blockade
7/1/12: My mom told me never to Vampiric Touch myself or I'd go blind.
07/16/2014: If you are a Lannister you know Friend to Foe.
08/14/2014: I Bristle at the thought at how broken this spell is.


MOVED TO THE SPELL BOOK
Acid Breath

I'm interested in exploring what you can do with a given spell. The criteria is: You can put the spell in something (Wand, potion, scroll), but it can't be the spell that makes something (No wonderous items, rods, rings). It has to be only about that spell (No staffs). You can use any metamagic feat that would legally work with the spell, but you can't use sudden whatever, or metamagic feats that are reduced because of some outside source (No arcane thesis or PrC powers).

I'm looking for the raw potential of a spell. I'm sure the apt pupil can find a way to bend the rules into new and interesting fashions. I'm doing it the hard way first, the easy way can follow. However, you can use any class that can cast the spell for the basis of making the spell, so if one class casts it at 2nd and one casts it at 3rd, you can use the former for the purpose of making a wand, for example.

I want to make it clear that I have no ego about this sort of thing. If anyone wants to jump in and even write up PART of a spell, hey, I'd love the help. Heck, if you have a snarky comment or two, an amusing story or even just a weird observation, please chime in. I welcome your input.

I am currently writing up notes on:

Starting over from scratcj

I hope to start working on and would like ideas about:
Ray of Exhaustion (Goes well with ray of enfeeblement)
False Life (Everyone needs hps)
Persistent Blade (Upon Request)
Gaseous Form (Trapsmith casts it at level 1)
Haste (Ditto)
Knock (Ditto)
Arcane Sight (Ditto)
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (Ditto)
Protection from Energy (Ditto, but maybe I'll make a Defense against energy attacks thread)
Read Magic (Player came up with wierd suggestions)
Rope Trick (Tactics, mostly)
Sepia Snake Sigil (Did you know that range of effect is line of sight?)
Shield (I did Magic Missile)
See Invisibile (Tactics)
Scorching Ray (One of the few ways to break the 1d6 a level)
Sending (Making it work)
Searing light (To give some love to the clerics)
Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt
Howling Chain
Threesteel
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 11:11:24 PM by Captnq »
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Offline Solo

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 10:45:24 PM »
You left out Violate Spell.
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Offline kitep

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 10:59:29 PM »
Violate Spell seems a lot like Corrupt Spell.  He can probably copy and paste the text for it :)

---

What about knowledge domain?  Did I miss something that says it's for melee only?  If you can apply it to magic missile, would it apply to each missile or each target?  No attack roll needed, but there is a damage roll.


Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 11:13:02 PM »
You should use spoilers on that first post. 

Is it acceptable to use recaster (Races of Eberron) and wyrm wizard (Dragon Magic) to pull from the most advantageous spell list and still use a full caster? 

For magic missile, you might want to consider argent savant (Complete Arcane) and force missile mage (Dragon 328, p50). 

War weaver (Heroes of Battle) can make great use of spells by affecting all allies with a spell that normally affects just one person. 

Is your name a reference to Captain N

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 11:30:18 PM »
HERE you go.

and that's about all I have to offer. :shrug

Offline Solo

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 12:11:17 AM »
Violate Spell seems a lot like Corrupt Spell.  He can probably copy and paste the text for it :)
Except for the part where it prevents your target from getting healed unless he is healed in a consecrated or hallowed area. Vile damage is like that.
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Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 03:24:39 PM »
I hear it can attack the Darkness.
Im really bad at what I do.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 05:08:34 PM »
I hear it can attack the Darkness.

Only if you're drinking mountain dew.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 05:55:26 PM »
You should use spoilers on that first post. 

Ah. Thank you. I will do so going forward. I'm finishing up Ray of enfeeblement tonight on my overnight shift.

Is it acceptable to use recaster (Races of Eberron) and wyrm wizard (Dragon Magic) to pull from the most advantageous spell list and still use a full caster? 
For magic missile, you might want to consider argent savant (Complete Arcane) and force missile mage (Dragon 328, p50). 
War weaver (Heroes of Battle) can make great use of spells by affecting all allies with a spell that normally affects just one person. 

Perhaps I was not clear. I do not wish to optimize the spell. I wish to explore what can be done with it without optimization. After the various basic options are laid out, I'm sure many people can figure out how to take it even further, but you need to know what the basic options are first. Yes, I can figure out how to lower Metamagic level costs to -3 or something like that. A wand of Empowered Magic missile will still sell for 11250 gold regardless of how cheap it was to make.

I only spoke about the metamagic feats in general. I didn't work out every possible way you could combine the spells. The only ones I worked out were the ones I thought people would bother to scribe on a scroll or put into a wand. If you think I missed a combination that you think that you'd bother putting together and/or would spend gold to actually use, then please post it. Or if you have a battle tactic that would be useful to note in using Magic Missile. Or If I came up with something that is wrong that you'd like to point out.

For example, I'm uncertain if a retributive magic missile can be put into a potion. It doesn't state that retributive spells become Range: personal, put it certainly is implied. An argument could be made either way.

Is your name a reference to Captain N?

No. In high school I was called Captain Quaalude. As in, I was so hyperactive, the teachers wanted to put me on quaaludes.

You left out Violate Spell.

Book of vile darkness is 3.0 so I did not consider it. Nor did I include any of the Dragon magazine feats since it is questionable as to if they are cannon or not. However, if there is anyone who feels these feats should be included, please write iy up and post it. After a week or so, I'll consolidate any and all suggestions.
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Offline Tubercular Ox

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 05:58:49 PM »
After playing more than a few British vs. Zulu war games, the wounding option sounds useful to me for a villain.  Kill a civilian, and you've pissed the heroes off.  Wound a civilian, and one of them has to stop a round to stabilize the sap.  Wound five civilians and you might have paralyzed the entire party for a turn.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 09:51:47 PM by Tubercular Ox »

Offline Amechra

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 11:09:15 PM »
Ooh, ooh, may I suggest tossing on an Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile)? It makes that juicy, juicy undead slaying Energized/Empowered Magic Missile spell only a +1 adjustment!

Nice catches on some of these; I'm pretty sure you actually could prepare Magic Missile as an Ocular Spell, though...
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Offline Captnq

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Ray of Enfeeblement: What can you do with it?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 08:54:59 AM »
Here’s the next spell I’ve been working on. If you have any requests, please let me know. Right now it’s whatever catches my fancy.

RAY OF ENFEEBLEMENT
(click to show/hide)

Metamagic Feats
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

Wands
(click to show/hide)

Potions
(click to show/hide)

And that concludes my assessment of Ray of Enfeeblement. I hope that this gives you ideas and allows you to breathe new life into this old spell. Please take the time to rip apart my suggestions and point out any flaws. And feel free to mention any combos you’d suggest.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 10:00:35 PM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Magic Missile: What can you do with it?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 09:01:23 AM »
Ooh, ooh, may I suggest tossing on an Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile)? It makes that juicy, juicy undead slaying Energized/Empowered Magic Missile spell only a +1 adjustment!

I will reiterate my criteria:

I'm looking at the spell and only the spell. Feats that modify other feats are not included. I have no doubt I could use three wishes to reduce the level adjustment for Quicken Spell down to only a +1 when it applies to magic missiles, then use arcane thesis to bring it down to 0 so I can shoot magic missiles like a machine gun.

Not that you're point isn't valid, it just has it's place in a different discussion.

Furthermore, even if you did reduce the cost, it wouldn't reduce the retail cost of any of the magic items. Regardless of how cheap it is for the creator to make, it still has the same gp value on the open market.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Common Spells: What can you do with them?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 02:04:57 PM »
You forgot Enervate Spell for your Ray of Enfeeblement metamagic list; or does that only work on HP damage?

If you are taking suggestions, can you do one for either Persistent Blade, Cloud of Knives, Vampiric Touch, or Blade of Blood?

I would have the greatest preference for Blade of Blood, but it is your choice...
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Re: Common Spells: What can you do with them?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 08:00:27 PM »
While Ray of Enfeeblement's penalty is indeed untyped, it must still follow the stacking rules: they do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession).
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Common Spells: What can you do with them?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 12:53:01 AM »
You forgot Enervate Spell for your Ray of Enfeeblement metamagic list; or does that only work on HP damage?

Energize and Enervate only modify HP. Since BLoM doesn't get over 1d6, I saw no point.

If you are taking suggestions, can you do one for either Persistent Blade, Cloud of Knives, Vampiric Touch, or Blade of Blood?
I would have the greatest preference for Blade of Blood, but it is your choice...

Was actually working on Vampiric Touch. BLoM takes it into a scary place when I ran the numbers. But I'll take a look at the others.

While Ray of Enfeeblement's penalty is indeed untyped, it must still follow the stacking rules: they do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession).

My word, your right. It's a strength penalty, not strength damage. Here:

"Combine for a cumulative effect. In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all), but do not stack if they have the same descriptors or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession)."

So Fell weakness would work with it (same spell, but technically different source), but multiple rays only help if they can hit different targets. I'll have to rework the math.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 12:59:39 AM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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Chill Touch: What can you do with it?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 01:43:43 AM »
CHILL TOUCH
- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK (3.0)
- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK 1 (3.5)
Necromancy
Level: Blighter 2, Bone Collector 1, Cold Domain 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Duskblade 1, Maho-Tsukai 1, Master of Shrouds 1, Sorcerer/Wizard 1, Telflammar Shadowlord 1, Warmage 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level. An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.
Editor: It’s a weird spell. You have to succeed on a touch attack and the target gets a will save. That’s two dice rolls where the spell can fail. Compare that to magic missile which is ranged, has no miss chance, and no saving throw. However, you might be a necromancer and you need to take necromancy spells. In that case, it’s not so bad. A few things to point out. It has an instantaneous duration, that means use it or lose it. It allows you to make one touch attack against one target per level. If you are 20th level and only have one target, the other 19 touch attacks are wasted. However, should you have a 15’ reach and are surrounded by 20 targets, you can smack each one upside the head for 1d6. I should also point out that this requires you to be in melee range, which is rarely a good place for a spellcaster. However, combine it with spectral hand and you can hit targets up to over a hundred feet away. It is also important to remember that it’s a touch spell so a natural 20 is a critical for double damage.

Metamagic Feats
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)


Wands
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 04:09:20 AM by Captnq »
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Offline Captnq

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What can you do with: Blade of Blood
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 10:45:09 PM »
BLADE OF BLOOD
(click to show/hide)

Metamagic Feats
(click to show/hide)

Scrolls
(click to show/hide)

Wands
(click to show/hide)

Oil
(click to show/hide)

That’s it for Blade of Blood. I know this one was a request, I’m sorry the numbers just don’t make this spell look good, but I suppose it depends on what class you are playing. An assassin or black guard might not have any better options. And there is no reason that you can’t be a monk/cleric who casts this on their hands while they do cause serious wounds as they punch through someone’s liver. It’s up to the individual player to find a way for this to work for them.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 11:46:42 PM by Captnq »
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Offline Amechra

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Blade of Blood)
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2012, 12:25:21 AM »
Note that, if you are Undead, or are using Purify Spell and are good, the uses for this spell become far superior, namely because they're immune to the effects of the Fell line of effects.

And you know what? I would totally buy an Oil of Fell Animate Blade of Blood, and give it to the party ubercharger.

Or, if I was an evil bastard, make a wand of Fell Drain Blade of Blood, and then make a sword with a wand chamber, and advertising as a "bargain basement", telling all the 1st level Commoners coming in that the sword has a devastating smite ability, and if they would like, they can rent it to keep in reserve against brigands or such for a paltry fee...

But, yeah, within the constraints you gave yourself, it ain't a very good spell.

Why haven't you been including Persistent Spell in your analysis?
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Offline Captnq

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Re: What can you do with... (Current topic: Blade of Blood)
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2012, 09:54:31 PM »
Note that, if you are Undead, or are using Purify Spell and are good, the uses for this spell become far superior, namely because they're immune to the effects of the Fell line of effects.
Hey, Now there's a thought. Purify would work with all the fell feats. I will have to add them.

Why haven't you been including Persistent Spell in your analysis?

I have. It hasn't been available for any of the spells yet. Read it. Personal or Fixed Area only. None of these spells so far are personal or of a fixed area.
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