Author Topic: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes  (Read 4282 times)

Offline RedWarlock

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GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« on: August 14, 2012, 01:14:22 AM »
Here are all the core mechanical changes I've decided on, which apply to everything. I'll add on anything when I make later decisions.

Actions use 4e-style action-spending, with Standard, Move, and Minor/Swift (favoring Minor, but undecided). You can spend a Standard to make a Move or Minor action, or spend a Move to make a Minor action.

Advantage and Disadvantage are in, replacing simple circumstance modifiers. Fixed bonuses and such are still there, and extreme circumstances will still involve more significant modifiers, but this replaces all the fiddly +2/-2 mods. An advantage and a disadvantage cancel each other out, while two advantages vs one disadvantage leaves advantage on the roll, and vice versa.

AC is called Defense, with subtypes of Ready and Unready Defense. (This is mostly because armor has little to do with how hard it is to hit you, instead mostly dealing with how much or little damage you take. This also means there's no difference between touch and normal AC, and flat-footed always struck me as clumsy terminology.)

Saves are still called saves, but they are sometimes also used as 4e-style passive defenses. The distinction between getting a save and using a defense is the difference of being able to affect the result with action points. (The format on the sheet is [defense]=10+[save]=[]+[]+[]+[]+etc..)

Action Points function much like in 3.5 Eberron/UA, with different costs. Spend 1 point to add 1d6 to a d20 roll (or better of 2 d6s lvls 11-20, or best of 3 d6s 21-30), spend 2 points to reroll a failed d20 roll, spend 3 points to get an extra Standard action on your turn. You can only do one AP expenditure per round, reset on the end of your turn.

The Ability scores are called Attribute scores. (this lets me free up the term 'Ability' as the counterpart for 4e's 'power', the generic term referencing any kind of spell, maneuver, or activated feat or class feature. I've also got an ability block format that hybridizes the colored rows of the 4e power block for easy reading and the more complex spell/power/maneuver format from 3e.)
  • Strength: Add your Str modifier to melee and thrown damage rolls. One-handed weapons get 1x Str bonus, two-handed weapons get 2x Str bonus, while Str penalties are only applied 1x, even on 2-handed weapons. Your Str modifier also applies to Fortitude saves/defense.
  • Dexterity: Add your Dex modifier to all weapon and weapon-like attack rolls, whether melee or ranged. Your Dex modifier also applies to Ready Defense, as well as Reflex saves/defense.
  • Constitution: Add your Con score to your base hit points at first level. Your Con modifier also applies to every Hit Die you have. This applies retroactively if your Con score changes.
  • Intellienge: Add your Int score to your number of skill points at first level. Your Int modifier also applies to the number of skill points gained each level.
  • Wisdom: Add your Wis modifier to Ready Defense while no more than Lightly Armored. Your Wis modifier also applies to Will saves and defense.
  • Charisma: Add your Cha modifier to the number of Action Points gained per-day. Your Cha modifier also applies to your Initiative roll.
Opportunity Attacks, by default, consume your Standard action from your upcoming turn. (The same way, in 3.5e, Immediate actions consume your Swifts. Haven't decided if this will also apply in GodsBlood.)

A high BAB doesn't grant iterative attacks anymore (in fact, the Full Attack is gone as a base action). Instead, at +6, +11, +16, etc, single-attack damage also increases by a factor of one on all basic weapon attacks. So if you deal 1d8+2 at +1 to +5 BAB, when you reach +6 BAB, you now deal 2d8+4, and at +11 BAB. you deal 3d8+6. This base damage multiplier increases every 5 points of BAB. At the same time (+6, +11, +16, etc), you gain one extra 'swing' (name will change, as this applies to ranged weapons and magic-based attacks as well) which allows you to retry an attack (any attack, even OAs) at the same attack bonus. When you use a swing to retry, however, you lose one multiplier to your base weapon damage. If this modifier gets to 0x, you're done retrying for this action. The retry function is what reduces the damage, not the spending of a swing, as there are other ways of spending swings, as well as ways of getting extra swings:
  • Fighter-type classes (any full-BAB class) get one bonus swing at their 1st level, and the ability to spend swings to make OAs instead of burning their standard actions.
  • The feat Combat Reflexes adds your Dex modifier to the number of swings you get in a round (minimum +1 swing, with the Dex 13 prereq).
  • Two-Weapon Fighting grants additional BAB-derived swings for your off-hand weapon.
  • Parry/Shield-Block actions allow you to make a skill check which replaces your Defense vs an attack, at the cost of a swing.
All speeds, distances, etc, are measured in Yards. To convert, use the Squares notation (5ft==1 square), but 1 square is treated as 1 yard/meter. This will have other effects, but base land speed of a human is most likely still 6 squares, for instance, that's just 6 yards (18 ft) instead of 30 ft. I'll get into it later, but this also affects space/reach for all the sizes. (small size reach is 1 yard, for instance, whereas medium size reach is 1-2 yards depending on weapon.)

There are both 3e-style Charge attacks (spend Standard+Move, move double speed and make attack with advantage) and 4e's charge, called Surge attacks (spend Standard, move speed and make attack with advantage). Both count as 'Charge' attacks for abilities which grant bonuses, but Surge gets half the effective benefits from such abilities (rounded down by bonus die, attack, or other functional unit, not by resulting damage or bonus). So for instance, the Powerful Charge feat (if it existed) would add +2d6 to a Charge, but only +1d6 to a Surge. If a lion got two Rake attacks on a charge, he would only get one Rake attack on a surge. If a minotaur gets one extra Gore attack on a charge, he doesn't get it on a surge. (these are all conjectural, for sake of making examples)

A Sidestep is a Move action that allows you to move 1 square (1 yard) without provoking OAs. (the free-action 5ft step is gone) Standing up from prone is likewise a Move action that doesn't provoke.

This is the basics for now, I'll add more if I think of it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 11:37:09 AM by RedWarlock »
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Offline SneeR

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 02:15:31 AM »
This sounds quite interesting! Do swings do fun stuff like attacks of opportunity? If you want some fun things to spend swings and action points on, just replace "attack of opportunity" with either phrase in the abilities of my true swashbuckler!
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Offline RedWarlock

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 01:04:22 PM »
Tweaked the AP usage per-round refresh to end of round, based on the discussion of fighter CS dice concept from Next. Then again, since it's not a per-round constantly-available resource, maybe not necessary.

This sounds quite interesting! Do swings do fun stuff like attacks of opportunity? If you want some fun things to spend swings and action points on, just replace "attack of opportunity" with either phrase in the abilities of my true swashbuckler!
I'll check it out, but yes, they do OAs. (I mention that, actually)

  • Wisdom: Add your Wis modifier to Ready Defense while no more than Lightly Armored. Your Wis modifier also applies to Will saves and defense.
I'll also clarify that this means that Dex is always applied to Defense, even in heavy armor, while Wisdom is applied only while lightly armored (and that's bonus AND penalty, meaning if you have a poor wis, wearing armor can cover your lack of perception in your defenses.)

I should also add that armor has a small Defense bonus which varies by type, but mainly contributes Damage Resistance.

I've got three types of damage modifiers, damage reduction (DR), damage resistance (resist) and damage vulnerability (vulnerable). I also have a specific notation for type, with Modifier [amount] [damage type], with the special exception for types of [this]/[except that], so for instance DR 5 –/fire means you take 5 less damage from any type of damage (weapon or spell, makes no distinction) except for fire, which deals full damage.

DR reduces damage by a specified amount via subtraction. Resist reduces damage by a fraction (1/4, 1/2, or 3/4) with higher fractions being better. For example, a creature with resist 1/4 acid would take 30 out of 40 points of acid damage dealt. Vulnerability just takes straight-up double damage from any given source. Apply in the order most favorable to the target.

This is to normalize the rules on DR and resistance, and allow me to use resistant armor. Light armor, by default, has resist 1/4 physical, medium has resist 1/2 physical, and heavy has resist 3/4 physical.

So armor versus better Defense, which is better? Is it better to be easier to hit, but take less damage, or to avoid being hit altogether, but risk a massive amount of damage?
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Offline RedWarlock

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 01:25:33 PM »
Hmm. Maybe Resist 3/4 is overkill, at least for base mundane armor.

Partly it was just keeping the numbers by armor grouping (light/medium/heavy), adding 1/4 each.. But I rely too much on convenience of numbers.

Maybe just doing 1/2 on 'heavy' and just having light and heavily armored as categories is enough. (medium serves what purpose again?)
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Offline RedWarlock

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 10:15:12 PM »
I made up my mind a little more on the Actions:

There are five (well, seven) types of actions:

  • Standard action: As normal. You get one Standard action on your turn. You can also spend your Standard action on your turn to use abilities that cost a Move or Minor action.
  • Move action: As normal. You get one Move action on your turn. You can also spend your Move action on your turn to use abilities that cost a Minor action.
  • Minor action: Renamed Swift action. You get one Minor action on your turn.
  • Free action: As normal. You can make as many Free actions per turn as you like, on your turn or otherwise.
  • Immediate action: This is actually three types of actions, Immediate Standard, Immediate Move, and Immediate Minor. (Immediate Minor is basically the same as a 3.5 Immediate action.) These consume the Standard/Move/Minor action on your upcoming turn. You can't take an Immediate action if your are Unready (aka flat-footed, see above). Immediate actions can be triggered by other events in a round, and will specify if they are a reaction or an interrupt.

Immediate Standards, for instance, are the default action used for Opportunity Attacks. (fighting-type classes will get a maneuver which allows them to OA as a free action, at the cost of a swing. Still need a melee/ranged-compatible name for those...)
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Offline SneeR

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 11:37:45 PM »
Don't nerf attacks of opportunity too much. Be aware that using an immediate standard on an AoO means that they will be worthless next round, which I believe is a bit of a problem.

Basically, getting a standard action's worth of effects when it isn't your turn breaks the action economy. It also means that next round you will be sucking your thumb if it wasn't worth it. Think carefully about the limitations of immediate standards.
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Offline RedWarlock

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 12:20:30 AM »
I don't think it will be as much of a problem because of the abundance of action points, which can be spent as a chunk to get an extra standard on your turn (in this case, getting one back). Because the amount gained are also charisma-based (one of the common caster priority stats), it will keep them from being useless.

There's also that casters' actions are going to be a little more diversified, stuff like 'sustain minor' on spells, and the ability to spend move actions to do a lot more than just move (like minion control).

Plus if you're a caster, what are you doing in melee anyway?  :lmao
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Offline Tarkisflux

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 01:26:59 PM »
I like the idea of boosted damage from BAB (and am doing something similar in a different system), and the idea of swings is an interesting one. I don't know if "shots" would work for ranged or not, mostly since I don't know if you want people to use multiple pieces of ammunition to try to hit a target.

How do weapon properties interact with the damage boosts from BAB? Do the flaming / frosting / shocking properties get boosted with the rest of the damage?

For the immediate actions, did you consider making them use left over actions from the previous round instead of actions from a future round? For example, if you wanted to have an immediate standard between this turn and your next turn you would have to forgo your normal standard (in effect readying it or whatever) or spend AP for it. It seems like that might help you better balance the action economy than by allowing people to spend future actions that they might not even need.

Offline RedWarlock

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 01:45:33 PM »
I like the idea of boosted damage from BAB (and am doing something similar in a different system), and the idea of swings is an interesting one. I don't know if "shots" would work for ranged or not, mostly since I don't know if you want people to use multiple pieces of ammunition to try to hit a target.
Yeah, not sure. Considering this is replacing the full attack mechanic, I'm thinking it's not a bad trade-off to expend ammunition which a 3e-style full attack would have spent anyway. And the first shot might actually hit, and then you don't even need to worry about the other 3 or 4 arrows.

Still need another term for the swing/shot unit because the term should apply for both..

How do weapon properties interact with the damage boosts from BAB? Do the flaming / frosting / shocking properties get boosted with the rest of the damage?
My main thought is no, since I want the wielder to be the more important aspect of the attack, not so much the magic of the weapon. On the other hand, I'm also thinking there might be better enchantments that increase the damage added. (I'm somewhat partial to the 4e style for flaming/etc weapons, where the base weapon's damage adds the energy type rather than increasing standard hit damage, but then adds the energy burst damage on a critical hit.)

For the immediate actions, did you consider making them use left over actions from the previous round instead of actions from a future round? For example, if you wanted to have an immediate standard between this turn and your next turn you would have to forgo your normal standard (in effect readying it or whatever) or spend AP for it. It seems like that might help you better balance the action economy than by allowing people to spend future actions that they might not even need.
Well, there lies the problem people have mentioned with the 5e Combat Superiority dice, with trying to save the whatever-it-is from their turn for an event that might not even happen. The idea here is to keep someone from wasting their action and feeling frustrated when it all comes to nothing.

Using the upcoming action for the opportunity attack, for instance, means that you are making the attack you would have made on your turn, if only they hadn't moved away, it's just shuffling the timing a little. Or, you can choose to forego the attack, if you have something planned for your action, such as casting a spell. Its now an active choice, possibly now or reliably later, versus if you're spending unused actions, which is a more passive choice, reliably now or possibly later.
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Offline Tarkisflux

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Re: GodsBlood Core Mechanics Changes
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 09:47:27 PM »
I like the idea of boosted damage from BAB (and am doing something similar in a different system), and the idea of swings is an interesting one. I don't know if "shots" would work for ranged or not, mostly since I don't know if you want people to use multiple pieces of ammunition to try to hit a target.
Yeah, not sure. Considering this is replacing the full attack mechanic, I'm thinking it's not a bad trade-off to expend ammunition which a 3e-style full attack would have spent anyway. And the first shot might actually hit, and then you don't even need to worry about the other 3 or 4 arrows.

Still need another term for the swing/shot unit because the term should apply for both..
Don't have any ideas for that name I'm afraid.

How do weapon properties interact with the damage boosts from BAB? Do the flaming / frosting / shocking properties get boosted with the rest of the damage?
My main thought is no, since I want the wielder to be the more important aspect of the attack, not so much the magic of the weapon. On the other hand, I'm also thinking there might be better enchantments that increase the damage added. (I'm somewhat partial to the 4e style for flaming/etc weapons, where the base weapon's damage adds the energy type rather than increasing standard hit damage, but then adds the energy burst damage on a critical hit.)
That seems like it could work rather well in a game without lots of hit point inflation (or at least similar things do in my work that lacks lots of hit point inflation). Something to keep in mind when you're designing monsters for it I guess.

For the immediate actions, did you consider making them use left over actions from the previous round instead of actions from a future round? For example, if you wanted to have an immediate standard between this turn and your next turn you would have to forgo your normal standard (in effect readying it or whatever) or spend AP for it. It seems like that might help you better balance the action economy than by allowing people to spend future actions that they might not even need.
Well, there lies the problem people have mentioned with the 5e Combat Superiority dice, with trying to save the whatever-it-is from their turn for an event that might not even happen. The idea here is to keep someone from wasting their action and feeling frustrated when it all comes to nothing.

Using the upcoming action for the opportunity attack, for instance, means that you are making the attack you would have made on your turn, if only they hadn't moved away, it's just shuffling the timing a little. Or, you can choose to forego the attack, if you have something planned for your action, such as casting a spell. Its now an active choice, possibly now or reliably later, versus if you're spending unused actions, which is a more passive choice, reliably now or possibly later.
I think that if you told people they have to ready / reserve actions or spend action points on between turn stuff, they would probably use their actions on turn and spend AP for off turn stuff. We can see that with readied actions already even. They don't happen a lot in games, but they do happen and I don't know a lot of people who get frustrated when they wind up not getting the action after all. If you don't have anything good to do with your action in a round, it gives you something to do with it later possibly. I'd argue that it's an active choice either way really, with one way costing you current actions or resources for off turn stuff, and the other costing you future actions you might not even need for future stuff.