Author Topic: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC  (Read 24280 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 12:31:53 PM »
Oooh, ok.

So does that mean I get to make a couple different cohort versions?  And then call them as necessary?  :D :D :D
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 02:09:17 PM »
Oooh, ok.

So does that mean I get to make a couple different cohort versions?  And then call them as necessary?  :D :D :D
If you want to give up followers and instead have multiple cohorts for this, we can say you get a number equal to your unmodified charisma modifier, as the tome undead creation feats do, I guess...

Still let's limit it to one at a time, though.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 03:20:43 PM »
Oooh, ok.

So does that mean I get to make a couple different cohort versions?  And then call them as necessary?  :D :D :D
If you want to give up followers and instead have multiple cohorts for this, we can say you get a number equal to your unmodified charisma modifier, as the tome undead creation feats do, I guess...

Still let's limit it to one at a time, though.
Sounds perfect.  That lets me try out a few different things at different times.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2013, 03:22:19 PM »
Oooh, ok.

So does that mean I get to make a couple different cohort versions?  And then call them as necessary?  :D :D :D
If you want to give up followers and instead have multiple cohorts for this, we can say you get a number equal to your unmodified charisma modifier, as the tome undead creation feats do, I guess...

Still let's limit it to one at a time, though.
Sounds perfect.  That lets me try out a few different things at different times.
Just what you need: an excuse to build more characters. :P
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 03:30:17 PM »
Oooh, ok.

So does that mean I get to make a couple different cohort versions?  And then call them as necessary?  :D :D :D
If you want to give up followers and instead have multiple cohorts for this, we can say you get a number equal to your unmodified charisma modifier, as the tome undead creation feats do, I guess...

Still let's limit it to one at a time, though.
Sounds perfect.  That lets me try out a few different things at different times.
Just what you need: an excuse to build more characters. :P
Well, yes.  The problem is that I never get to use all the ideas I have.  This should (at least partially) help with that.
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 10:00:18 PM »
Cool. Definitely workable, thanks. I’ll have to figure out what to do so he can spam healing without those feats – the fact that people in this party can heal themselves is not really relevant to the choices Blisss would make as he grew up – but the flexibility with magic items should cover it.

As to scrolls and learning from them flexibly – I’ve got an idea to try on you: Rather than listing an exhaustive list… which would be advantageous to do but much too exhausting!... I’ll have a short starter list, and the assumption that Blisss has collected a scroll of all the common spells at one time or another over the past thousands of years he’s been watching, dreaming, and helping those around him. What are the common spells? Maybe whatever is in d20SRD, or D&DWiki. Or some other source(s), whatever. Then there are the uncommon and rare spells, ones the players know are in other sources but Blisss may not have run across; he’d have a percentile chance to have one of those, or maybe has to make a DC on Knowledge Arcana that gets more difficult with the Spell Level. So it’s pretty simple: He has a core list, and whenever he wants to learn something not on the core list, he checks his spell library and it’s there… or not.

As backstory that gives him a great incentive to go to the library, go adventuring, hang out with dangerous people: because it gives him access to new spellbooks and spell experiences. If he does find a spellbook he can check it for new things, or simply if someone hits him with a spell he’s never experienced, he has a chance of writing it down and adding a new scroll to his library. What he values in his hoard are new ways to be helpful, so practically any spell is of interest – if it’s helpful, good; if it’s harmful, good to be ready to counterspell it.

I’m thinking about taking him in the direction of magic defender, someone who knows how to nullify harmful magical stuff to keep his friends safe. Definitely in character!!

What do you think of the scroll library idea to save copy/pasting a ridiculously long list? And the mechanism? Suggestions?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 10:22:53 PM »
I like the idea. I'll have to think about a mechanism.  :D
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 06:25:29 AM »
How relevant is Lucid Dreaming and its associated mechanics going to be to this campaign? It seems to be an integral part of the FoPP campaign but will this be similar?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 03:29:15 PM »
How relevant is Lucid Dreaming and its associated mechanics going to be to this campaign? It seems to be an integral part of the FoPP campaign but will this be similar?
Not for what I have planned at the moment, but of course feel free to use it if you want. :P
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Offline chris`

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2013, 04:11:36 PM »
Are item familiars allowed? If so, are they allowed to grant an insight bonus to a skill (since the bonus is untyped as written)?

Noticing some weird aspects of the houserules. Specifically, the changes to bonus stacking seem to make party buffing a much weaker option for full casters, since a lot of the good party buffs rely on stacking luck and other bonuses (clerics, looking at you), while most self-buffing and offensive strategies do not rely on this. Intended?

Anyway, was thinking a very party-buff-focused archivist build with an inbuffatrix cohort, but am probably going to have to rethink that.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 04:24:04 PM »
How relevant is Lucid Dreaming and its associated mechanics going to be to this campaign? It seems to be an integral part of the FoPP campaign but will this be similar?
Not for what I have planned at the moment, but of course feel free to use it if you want. :P

I ask because I've been thinking about alternate character options. I love the Historian class but in order for me to play one in this game, the port needs finishing and that's a significant amount of work for SirP, the busiest guy on the forum. I really don't want to either put more stress on him or delay the game because I'm insisting on playing something that's not ready.

So in looking for the current GitP contest chat thread in order to comment on the Astronomer, I ran across the Extractor, a class so made of awesome I am convinced it caused severe awesome shortages.

It uses the Lucid Dreaming system, hence my question.

Even if that's not going to be a focus of the campaign I might still be interested in switching to Extractor if that's something that works with the game and the party.


Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 04:46:35 PM »
I am the assassin of productivity

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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 04:48:24 PM »
That's what I get for not reading the headings in your Index. I didn't realize Incarnum had its own section. Thanks.

Would you mind if I wrote some Extractor specific feats ([Incarnum] and/or [Inspiration] feats probably)?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 04:55:41 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 04:52:56 PM »
Are item familiars allowed? If so, are they allowed to grant an insight bonus to a skill (since the bonus is untyped as written)?
I think that should be OK.

Quote
Noticing some weird aspects of the houserules. Specifically, the changes to bonus stacking seem to make party buffing a much weaker option for full casters, since a lot of the good party buffs rely on stacking luck and other bonuses (clerics, looking at you), while most self-buffing and offensive strategies do not rely on this. Intended?
Yes and no. Yes in that I intended to nerf the ability to stack a dozen weak buffs to get a gigantic overall effect. No in that I don't want to specifically nerf party bufffing over self-buffing (and is that really the case? I also made the modified polymorph spell chain all castable on party mates).

Quote
Anyway, was thinking a very party-buff-focused archivist build with an inbuffatrix cohort, but am probably going to have to rethink that.
I don't see why that still won't work, really (focusing on party-buffing, anyway). What specifically do my houserules mess up that you planned to use?


How relevant is Lucid Dreaming and its associated mechanics going to be to this campaign? It seems to be an integral part of the FoPP campaign but will this be similar?
Not for what I have planned at the moment, but of course feel free to use it if you want. :P

I ask because I've been thinking about alternate character options. I love the Historian class but in order for me to play one in this game, the port needs finishing and that's a significant amount of work for SirP, the busiest guy on the forum. I really don't want to either put more stress on him or delay the game because I'm insisting on playing something that's not ready.

So in looking for the current GitP contest chat thread in order to comment on the Astronomer, I ran across the Extractor, a class so made of awesome I am convinced it caused severe awesome shortages.

It uses the Lucid Dreaming system, hence my question.

Even if that's not going to be a focus of the campaign I might still be interested in switching to Extractor if that's something that works with the game and the party.
Yes, the Extractor should work fine. I like the class (of course... :P ), and I can certainly find ways to use it in the plot.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 04:59:37 PM »
Cool. I'll start building one and see if it grabs me then. Race probably Azurin + Lesser Bytopian from that ever popular set of planetouched templates.

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Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2013, 05:13:16 PM »
I'm so glad that I'll get to see Extractor taken through its paces!!
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2013, 05:13:33 PM »
Cool. I'll start building one and see if it grabs me then. Race probably Azurin + Lesser Bytopian from that ever popular set of planetouched templates.

Abilities thus:

(click to show/hide)
That's fine. By the way, did you see my Mindpirate class? And Awakened Dreamer PrC? :P
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Offline chris`

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2013, 05:41:16 PM »
I think that should be OK.

Okay, cool. That should solve the main party buffing hole (specifically spell slot efficiency).

Yes and no. Yes in that I intended to nerf the ability to stack a dozen weak buffs to get a gigantic overall effect. No in that I don't want to specifically nerf party bufffing over self-buffing (and is that really the case? I also made the modified polymorph spell chain all castable on party mates).

Okay, so in terms of game design principles I think that limiting the possible number of stackable bonus types is awesome (we did the same thing when designing Legend). The problem is spell slot efficiency; basically, if you have a large number (n > 2) of party members, you have to rely on area effects and multiple-target effects or simply run out of spell slots before you run out of good buffs to cast. Since most area/multiple-target buffs offer a bunch of little bonuses, stacking restrictions make this strategy very difficult.

On the other hand, self-buffing (as any kind of caster, although clerics get this slightly more than arcanists do) tends to revolve around personal-range and single uses of touch/target spells, so the spell slot efficiency of these spells is very high. Moreover, these spells are typically more powerful per spell slot (in terms of bonuses, immunities given, etc), so you get more out of a smaller number of spells and don't have to worry about stacking for the most part.

Anyway, was thinking a very party-buff-focused archivist build with an inbuffatrix cohort, but am probably going to have to rethink that.
I don't see why that still won't work, really (focusing on party-buffing, anyway). What specifically do my houserules mess up that you planned to use?[/quote]

I think that I can pull it off with an item familiar; the main difficulty is just spell slot efficiency if I'm trying to buff the whole party with things other than the standard luck/morale/insight stack of area effect bonuses to attack and saves. With the item familiar, I'll probably end up doing a reach/chain/persist combination (split between incantatrix and DMM) on a bunch of touch-range buffs, jack up caster levels on the buffs and save the rest of my spell slots for offense and battlefield control.

Speaking of which, are any of you planning on casting short-duration buffs that would benefit from being persisted?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 05:52:59 PM »
To avoid overlap, here's Phineas's current class list, with known spells *'d.

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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 06:59:15 PM »
I'm so glad that I'll get to see Extractor taken through its paces!!

I just hope I can do it justice. I haven't played a Meldshaper before, though I've built a few and am familiar with the system. I'm excited to build and play Extractor. Meldshaping + Inspiration with Maneuvers on the side should give me all sorts of fun toys to play with.

Speaking of Meldshapers, how will Soulmelds interact with the item attunement rules?

Under the normal slot system a Soulmeld bound to a chakra occupies an item slot preventing its use. The obvious analogue under your system is to make a bound Soulmeld count as an attuned item but I'd really prefer we didn't do that. The number of slots is higher than the attuned item limit and the nature of your item system makes attunements much more valuable than slots in the traditional system. Doing it that way would be a significant power hit to meldshapers and they weren't above tier 3 to begin with.

Honestly, I'd like to just kinda ignore that aspect of Chakra Binds. The idea of Soulmelds being like magic items is interesting fluff wise and I'll probably observe it in the "well I wear this magic item in ring form instead of belt form because I shape this sash around my waist" way but I don't think there's a need for mechanical enforcement of that concept.

What are your thoughts on this?