Author Topic: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC  (Read 24267 times)

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2013, 07:11:15 PM »
Speaking of which, are any of you planning on casting short-duration buffs that would benefit from being persisted?

If I go Extractor I'm going to end up with Insight bonuses to pretty much everything. I don't know if you were planning to focus on one bonus type over another or just spam all of them but if you needed to decide between one type and another "not Insight" is best for me.

Offline chris`

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 08:36:57 PM »
Also, what kinds of immunities do you guys expect to have?

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 10:26:44 PM »
So I've written a background for an Extractor character (cunningly hidden in my character sheet post.) Nothing it should be taken as truth necessarily. That's what my character thinks. He is definitely wrong about some of it.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 10:30:26 PM »
So I've written a background for an Extractor character (cunningly hidden in my character sheet post.) Nothing it should be taken as truth necessarily. That's what my character thinks. He is definitely wrong about some of it.
...Where?  All I see is the Historian.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »
Speaking of Meldshapers, how will Soulmelds interact with the item attunement rules?

Under the normal slot system a Soulmeld bound to a chakra occupies an item slot preventing its use. The obvious analogue under your system is to make a bound Soulmeld count as an attuned item but I'd really prefer we didn't do that. The number of slots is higher than the attuned item limit and the nature of your item system makes attunements much more valuable than slots in the traditional system. Doing it that way would be a significant power hit to meldshapers and they weren't above tier 3 to begin with.

Honestly, I'd like to just kinda ignore that aspect of Chakra Binds. The idea of Soulmelds being like magic items is interesting fluff wise and I'll probably observe it in the "well I wear this magic item in ring form instead of belt form because I shape this sash around my waist" way but I don't think there's a need for mechanical enforcement of that concept.

What are your thoughts on this?
Honestly... I don't know enough about them to know if that will be a problem or not. For now, we'll say they don't take up a slot (because I doubt it will be a problem, considering the guys you'll be fighting with/against :P ).
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 10:34:16 PM »
Honestly... I don't know enough about them to know if that will be a problem or not. For now, we'll say they don't take up a slot (because I doubt it will be a problem, considering the guys you'll be fighting with/against :P ).

Yeah, if anything I'm likely to be underpowered, not overpowered.

So I've written a background for an Extractor character (cunningly hidden in my character sheet post.) Nothing it should be taken as truth necessarily. That's what my character thinks. He is definitely wrong about some of it.
...Where?  All I see is the Historian.

Look at the bottom spoiler.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 10:35:53 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 11:13:20 PM »
Awesome background. I wholeheartedly approve.  :D
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2013, 02:58:27 AM »
Blisss can provide some party buffing, that was his role in another game, but it's not superpowered. He spams the buffs because he can cast his entire, very limited spell list every 5 minutes, more or less: 0th=2, 1st=2, 2nd=2, 3rd=2, 4th=1, I think is how it will work out, or near enough.

In a previous incarnation it was:

Mage Armor, +4 AC Force for all. Shield of Faith, +3 AC Deflection for himself and the big fighter.

Legion’s Conviction, +3 Saves Morale for all.

2xMass Snakes Swiftness, 1 extra attack for all, twice per encounter or 5 minutes.

That is all.

PS. Is there any use to this?

Or he could have some other role, he's the ultimate in spell and SLA flexibility – only a few different ones, and not high level, but within those constraints he can spam whatever we'd like them to be. He was also a healer in previous incarnations but this party seems like it won't need that from him either.

Suggestions, anyone?

PPS. His main role was info: Knowledge skills, lore, languages, magic, and a chance of hearing practically any story from anywhere/anywhen. The DM's infodump dream. And working with water and ice... that could turn out to be unusually useful in a Frozen Night.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2013, 08:42:38 PM »
Thoughts on this feat?

(click to show/hide)

Specifically, would it be abusive if I found a way to threaten and make AoOs with the 30ft reach granted by the 9 rank ability?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2013, 09:48:59 PM »
I think that would be fine. I like that feat.  :D
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2013, 12:26:29 AM »
Could I have a magic "weapon" that is essentially rope that can function as per that feat (that is, I'd take the feat and use the weapon with it) and threaten its reach?

This tack is partly inspired by this picture which I found while searching for Inceptiony stuff to use as a portrait.

That plus the Wrangler feat made me start envisioning a "Spool of Gossamer" rope/ribbon made of woven dreamstuff.

Sorta like this or this if the patterns of light were the actual weapon, not just afterimages.

EDIT: MetroMagic's post inspired me to come up with some potential stats, using a similar scaling format:

Gossamer Spool
Image
Somewhere between a bobbin of thread and a spool of rope, this silvery cylinder is wound with fine iridescent strands of woven dreamstuff.

Lv
0: Functions as a Spol of Endless Rope except seperated pieces remain for 1 hr/lv before dissapearing. A length of a desired size can be seperated by hand if the owner wishes it to.

1: Add the owner's highest mental stat mod to the HP and break DC of strands from the spool

3: A seperated length of appropriate size can function as a whip or lasso sized for the owner. Requires EWP: Gossamer Spool

5: Owner gains +1/lv circumstance bonus on Use Rope checks involving the spool (this replaces the +2 circumstance bonus from silk rope)

7: When used as a whip a length from the spool threatens the squares within its reach and does not provoke an attack of opportunity for attacking

9: A length from the spool can be used to deliver effects that require a touch attack

11: Ropes of dreamstuff bind the mind as well as the body. A character entangled by strands from the spool cannot manifest powers unless they first succeed on a ML check DC 10+ owner's HD. A character tied up so as to be incapacitated by strands from the spool cannot manifest powers at all.

And I'll figure out the rest if we get that far.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:08:10 AM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2013, 01:36:48 AM »
As I wrote before, I’m looking for a straightforward way to replace Blisss’ feats that gave him healing so that he doesn’t feel obligated to use his few spells known for that purpose.

So I started with the feats that gave unlimited Cure Lights at will – once you’re at that point, only “how fast” is at issue – added your very cool idea of magic items that scale, and created something crazy.

What do you think of this automatically scaling magic item? Crazy? Too crazy? Way too crazy? Initial cost 4000GP as a scaling item?

Wave of Healing

An exquisite sculpture of a breaking wave carved into the interior of a small blue and white crystalline geode. This item provides healing to one or more creatures within range. It may be activated by will as an immediate action in response to an action that causes damage, or as a swift action at other times. The equivalent healing spell and its range are dependent on the character level of the user.


Level

Range

Spell

1st

Personal

Cure Minor Wounds

3rd

Touch

Cure Light Wounds

5th

Close

Cure Serious Wounds

7th

Close, no Line of Effect required

Cure Critical Wounds

9th

Medium

Heal

11th

Medium, no Line of Effect required

Mass Heal, 1 creature/Level

13th

Long

Raise Dead

15th

Long, no Line of Effect required

Mass Raise Dead, 1 creature/Level

17th

Unlimited

Resurrection

19th

Unlimited, no Line of Effect required

Mass Resurrection, 1 creature/Level

20th

Any Plane, no Line of Effect required

True Resurrection





Filling out the table for higher Levels especially began to get out of hand, so if you want to nerf some of this…   :-)  But it *does* scale very nicely! Feel free to adjust as you will.

PS. Or maybe it doesn’t even matter, or isn’t that important, since we have another character who does Heal more or less at will.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2013, 03:47:19 PM »
So this feat fills the same design space as Insightful Strike but it does more of what I want it to.

Also this one.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 03:51:52 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 06:37:44 PM »
Legendary Wrangler 4 + Gossamer Spool 11 concerns me a bit. Although I doubt you guys will face many psionic enemies (you're basically on the psionic "team"), it would mean that you'd have a ranged touch attack that could incapacitate manifesters unless they succeed on a concentration check (to manifest while entangled) and a difficult manifester level check. Otherwise, they'd be screwed. I kind of like the idea, though... and I guess you are using up a feat + magic item slot for it. Other than that, I think that item looks OK for a start. I'm not sure how to price it, though.  :p

For the Wave of Healing... that's a bit stronger than I'd like. :P Marlowe can "cast" Heal, but he can only do a couple in-combat before having to recharge his Potential (which takes a full-round action). And it's a standard action for him, so it's taking up significant action resources. I'm not opposed to a similar item that's toned down, though. I'm off to see Django Unchained. I'll post more later if I have further ideas.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2013, 12:39:23 AM »
The movie Primer is available on Netflix... and all of you should go watch it.  :D
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2013, 12:39:59 AM »
The movie Primer is available on Netflix... and all of you should go watch it.  :D
Well... crap.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2013, 12:42:21 AM »
The movie Primer is available on Netflix... and all of you should go watch it.  :D
Well... crap.
You'll probably want this webpage afterwards, also. :P
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2013, 04:59:30 AM »
For the Wave of Healing... that's a bit stronger than I'd like. :P Marlowe can "cast" Heal, but he can only do a couple in-combat before having to recharge his Potential (which takes a full-round action). And it's a standard action for him, so it's taking up significant action resources. I'm not opposed to a similar item that's toned down, though. I'm off to see Django Unchained. I'll post more later if I have further ideas.

OK, we’ve got Healing Unchained… have to tone it down. At least a bit: Following the “Marlowe Rule”, no faster than a standard action for Heal (and above), twice, then a full round action before doing it again.

I realize I omitted the other curing from the first draft that would also tie up Blisss, so I’ve got them in there now, at their various levels.

This was even more fun to put together!

... and I stole the Chained idea.

(Helps fill out some levels and works well within the item.)

REVISED Wave of Healing

An exquisite sculpture of a breaking wave carved into the interior of a small blue and white crystalline geode. This item provides healing to one or more creatures within range. Lesser powers may be activated by will as an immediate action in response to an action that causes damage, or as a swift action at other times. Intermediate powers may be activated as a standard action on two consecutive rounds; then a full round action must be taken to focus will upon the Wave of Healing to prepare it for further use. Greater powers may be activated as a standard action in a round; then a full round action must be taken to focus will upon the Wave of Healing to prepare it for further use. The power, equivalent healing spell, and its range are dependent on the character level of the user. A character may use any power up to the maximum power permitted by level, provided the character has an action available to do so.


Level

Range

Power: Spell

1st

Personal

Lesser Power: Cure Minor Wounds

2nd

Personal

Lesser Power: Delay Poison

3rd

Touch

Lesser Power: Cure Light Wounds

4th

Touch

Lesser Power: Lesser Restoration, and lower powers upgraded to Touch

5th

Close

Lesser Power: Cure Serious Wounds

6th

Close

Lesser Power: Remove Blindness/Deafness/Disease, and lower powers upgraded to Close

7th

Close, no Line of Effect required

Lesser Power: Cure Critical Wounds

8th

Close, no Line of Effect required

Lesser Power: Death Ward/Neutralize Poison, and lower powers upgraded to Close, no Line of Effect required

9th

Medium

Intermediate Power: Heal

10th

Medium

Intermediate Power: Restoration/Break Enchantment, and lower powers upgraded to Medium

11th

Medium, no Line of Effect required

Intermediate Power: Mass Heal, 1 creature/Level

12th

Medium, no Line of Effect required

Intermediate Power: Contingency may be applied to powers for self and others, and lower powers upgraded to Medium, no Line of Effect required

13th

Long

Intermediate Power: Raise Dead

14th

Long

Intermediate Power: Greater Restoration, and lower powers upgraded to Long

15th

Long, no Line of Effect required

Intermediate Power: Mass Raise Dead, 1 creature/Level

16th

Long, no Line of Effect required

Intermediate Power: Regeneration, and lower powers upgraded to Long, no Line of Effect required

17th

Unlimited

Greater Power: Resurrection

18th

Unlimited

Greater Power: Chain Contingency may be applied to powers for self and others, and lower powers upgraded to Unlimited

19th

Unlimited, no Line of Effect required

Greater Power: Mass Resurrection, 1 creature/Level

20th

Any Plane, no Line of Effect required

Greater Power: True Resurrection, and lower powers upgraded to Any Plane, no Line of Effect required





Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2013, 10:49:43 AM »
That's a lot better... but I think it would still be a medium/greater artifact in my game. What's the # of targets for each of the abilities? The description says "one or more creatures", but most of the individual powers don't specify. Is it meant to be unlimited as long as they are within the area? (That might be OK, but then this item would be insanely powerful if used to empower an army by a high level leader, for example. But that might be interesting...)

I'd really rather not have any Chain Contingency effect in the game (or Craft Contingent Spell) at all, because things just get insanely complicated. Also, if I don't put multiple/nested contingencies on at least some of my bad guys, they really are at a huge disadvantage, and I don't want to be "required" to invest that much in them to make them a genuine threat. Although I seriously doubt we'll ever get to 18th level, so it's probably not a big deal.  :P

Overall, I think this is OK, as far as the current power level. I am not that crazy about the precedent it sets, though. One of the things I've liked about the ruleset we've been using is that (so far) most characters are more reliant on their own abilities, rather than those of their magic items. This is kind of a game changer as far as that goes. Of course... there have been exceptions (the Lochnar... the time I let everyone go crazy with unlimited Wish-powered buffs...), but those were more DM tools than "actual" magic items.


So... anyway, yeah, let's clarify a few things and run with it. We'll call it an artifact, meaning it can't be recreated, and it is a somewhat famous item that has had important impacts upon the history of the world (and would be coveted by powerful creatures who know what it is). I'd like to write up a short history of it, as well. With the wave motif, I imagine this thing being used in the underwater wars between the sahuagin and sea elves, but likely almost unheard of by the surface races. Since the sahuagin have the numbers advantage, and are less focused on healing/preserving their own members (and more focused on eating the faces of their enemies), I'd imagine this is a sea elf artifact. If you have time and don't mind, could you write a short history incorporating this stuff? I think this item would be OK for "future Blisss", but "past Blisss" probably wouldn't have it, as it would still likely be in the hands of the sea elves, and his having it would prevent them from using it to save themselves from their sahuagin enemies.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2013, 01:16:50 PM »
Legendary Wrangler 4 + Gossamer Spool 11 concerns me a bit. Although I doubt you guys will face many psionic enemies (you're basically on the psionic "team"), it would mean that you'd have a ranged touch attack that could incapacitate manifesters unless they succeed on a concentration check (to manifest while entangled) and a difficult manifester level check. Otherwise, they'd be screwed. I kind of like the idea, though... and I guess you are using up a feat + magic item slot for it. Other than that, I think that item looks OK for a start. I'm not sure how to price it, though.  :p

I had actually intended for the lv 11 ability to function on people "bound" (as in "tied up") with the rope out of combat rather than people entangled in combat. Basically, I wanted to make tying up a manifester work the same way as tying up a spellcaster. However, in retrospect my wording would apply to entangled opponents.

What if I removed the "highest mental ability mod" part from the save and and made it "11+ owners HD" instead? That way it'd only cancel manifesting about 50% of the time instead of most of the time.