Author Topic: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll  (Read 11941 times)

Offline dkt0404

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2020, 10:49:22 AM »
I'm curious how much a "Good" grade daily meals and the equivalent of an 'average' (or slightly better) inn room is worth to the average commoner.
If it's provided for them for no fee, would they work for that organization with minimal pay?

IE; The roof doesn't leak (it's underground by quite a bit) in individual rooms with locks, heat, and lighting. meals basically consist of bread and pastries, beef, peas, and ale or wine and the like every day.

In exchange, they have to work the metal ore mine, the docks, river transport ships, the kitchens, and the other myriad tasks to keep the non-shifty part of the operation running.

Side note that the organization is LN/N overall even if some members are LE or NE if they aren't excessively evil and follow the rules. No CE allowed.
The mission statement is to hunt down primarily psionic individuals with a strong emphasis on mind-controlling magic. Some overlap to magic mind controlling individuals as well (some members aren't picky). I suppose they aren't villains depending on whose perspective it is.
If they just freed your hamlet from a out of control telepath, they would probably be heros. If they were seen slaughtering the latent psionic commoner in the street, probably villans.

Offline Samwise

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2020, 09:29:09 PM »
I'm curious how much a "Good" grade daily meals and the equivalent of an 'average' (or slightly better) inn room is worth to the average commoner.
If it's provided for them for no fee, would they work for that organization with minimal pay?

This is from PF Ultimate Intrigue:
Quote
To receive a +1 bonus from fairness and generosity, a character must provide above-average remuneration to his cohort and followers. In the case of an adventuring cohort, an average amount of remuneration would be an equal or slightly less than equal cut of the treasure.
If a leader provides his cohort and followers with poor remuneration, he retains the loyalty of his cohort and followers, but he takes a –1 penalty to his Leadership score. If he does not pay them enough to subsist (or provide subsistence for them), he takes a –2 penalty and risks double or even triple that penalty if such behavior lasts more than a week.

Naturally, that does not specify an amount for followers.
I tagged in a note:
Quote
1-3 gp/day? 10 gp/month?
The 10 gp/month is:
Quote
Average (10 gp/month: The PC lives in his own apartment, small house, or similar location—this is the lifestyle of most trained or skilled experts or warriors. He can secure any nonmagical item worth 1 gp or less from his home in 1d10 minutes, and need not track purchases of common meals or taxes that cost 1 gp or less.
Above poor but below wealthy.
A trained hireling originally cost 3 sp/day, but then they mucked with things so untrained hirelings were 1-3 sp/day, and trained hirelings were more.

Quote
IE; The roof doesn't leak (it's underground by quite a bit) in individual rooms with locks, heat, and lighting. meals basically consist of bread and pastries, beef, peas, and ale or wine and the like every day.

In exchange, they have to work the metal ore mine, the docks, river transport ships, the kitchens, and the other myriad tasks to keep the non-shifty part of the operation running.

Sounds about right to me from the available "guidelines" to avoid any penalties. (They are more that than actual rules.)
I shudder at the thought of figuring out how to budget 100 gp/month per hireling so they have a "wealthy" lifestyle. Maybe just create a new level for happy followers at 15-20 gp/month, depending on just how thrilled you want them to be with a PCs/NPCs awesomeness and ability to provide a chicken in every pot and Clericare for all (and get that Leadership bonus), instead of company store-ing them every other Leader does to his followers in the kingdom.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2020, 10:59:49 PM »
Mining and some dockwork (Since Golarion has dock cranes, and they're common enough a couple PFS scenarios have them in run down warehouses) are the most complicated professions listed, and those two aren't even that complex.  A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

Offline Endarire

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2020, 04:37:06 PM »
Just the thread I needed to laugh at while doing my taxes.  LOL!

Offline dkt0404

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2020, 10:28:42 PM »
Mining and some dockwork (Since Golarion has dock cranes, and they're common enough a couple of PFS scenarios have them in run down warehouses) are the most complicated professions listed, and those two aren't even that complex.  A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

That's what I was thinking pretty much as well. I thought that it would be attractive to the average commoner given the more usual "barely farm enough to survive" situation that tends to be common in the medieval base material of D&D. It's not even an indentured servitude situation. Though I suppose it is still a Lord/Serf sort of situation since if they don't work they still get the boot. It's simply that they are at no risk of starving and minimal risk of being attacked.

The location is along a very large river to the west with the actual mine within a nearly extinct volcano. Eastside of the volcano (and connected mountain range) are grassy plains that are not listed as being claimed by any particular nation.

The plains side entrance has a minor road going up to it from a small town a few miles away. The mine, town and surrounding land are all controlled by the same noble.

I'm not quite sure if I should call it a mine or a fortress. Kind of a dwarven setup that combines they two. Bunch of dwarves on the 'payroll' too.

Security on the mine is provided in the form of full scale, defended castle-style gates with both organic and clockwork guards (albeit inexpensive ones via a minion crafting them).
The entire workforce will fit into the resident section of the mine without difficulty if need be, though only about 40% have permanent housing inside. This is more a function of housing density choices than 'what will fit'. They will all actually fit if the rooms aren't set for single occupancy.

Jobs consist of general housekeeping stuff, tool production/replacement, mine work, farm work, dock work, and the usual town type stuff.
In a nutshell; Production, loading/unloading, and maintenance (in a very broad sense).

The whole setup is Lawful Neutral (maybe) and run by the "evil" noble. Except she largely doesn't act evil so I'm uncertain what her actual alignment would be.

ex; She makes sure the workers are well treated and protected, there is no tolerance for abuses of power by underlings, fair punishments, ect
It's not really to be nice to people so much as making business sense to retain a loyal workforce.
This is the public and business face of the noble and what the majority of her followers would know.

Potentially 'evil' parts; she, and her organization, ruthlessly hunt down and pursues any individual (PC races) with psionic potential and slaughters them at the first reasonable opportunity. Telepaths are highest on the target list. Normal magic users using mind control magic make the list, though other magic does not.
The motivation behind this is primarily to protect the general population from being subject to mind-control. An entire town being under the control of a powerful telepath was the catalyzing event in the past. Age, race, standing; all doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if they are latent or active. Prisoners are not taken without cause and still typically face the same death sentence.
Witnesses are discouraged via cover stories. Witnesses that actually know something via spellcraft or the like are targeted, watched and killed if they become a threat.
Some of the followers that work as spies and the higher-level ones that work within the organization would be aware of this aspect, though possibly more through a code name system.

All that is done for the greater good, so to speak.

Edit: Artificer minons make things vastly cheaper when combined with Lyre and Maddoc.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 11:51:39 AM by dkt0404 »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2020, 03:44:15 PM »

Just the thread I needed to laugh at while doing my taxes.  LOL!


HA !!
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Offline Samwise

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2020, 06:02:21 PM »
A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

Yes you can.
Welcome to the Industrial Revolution!

Offline dkt0404

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2020, 10:12:52 PM »
A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

Yes you can.
Welcome to the Industrial Revolution!

It's not a con. They just have to do their jobs and they get those privileges. Like your typical Lord-Serf setup, if they don't do the work they get the boot.
Housing is provided both inside the fortress and out in the valley. Garrisons are scattered around the farms. Enough that an observant PC may raise an eyebrow.
This basically means the Noble Lady owns *everything* with all the implied and actual power that comes with that.

I can certainly see other Nobles investigating where their workforce went and causing problems.
Random Underdark monsters are always a potential problem in any deep mine, so potential issues there.
Discovery of the more secretive operations could be an issue as well.

Various potential hooks from a lot of things.

I still don't know for sure what alignment that mess would be.

Offline Samwise

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Re: Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2020, 10:49:47 PM »
No con.
That was why so many people were willing to move to lousy, stinking, smelly cities to work in factories - it was simply better conditions than farm labor.
For that matter, it was why so many were willing to risk arrest and sever punishment for escaping to cities during the guild era.
And how Ford build the assembly line later on.
Room and board are awesome ways to get people to work for you, with a bit of extra spending money making it even better.

And that is not your typical Lord-Serf setup.
Serfs could not be given the boot for being lazy. They could starve to death from not getting extra food from the stores during a hard winter because they were so lazy, or be perpetually overworked and bankrupt from having to earn money to pay fines for not doing labor they owed, but they could not be "fired".

As for alignment, it could easily be Lawful Good-Neutral, as in the Plane of Arcadia.
Do a bit of searching for the Harmonium faction in Planescape. Even with the psion-hunting it is very much the "flavor" and alignment of that group.
Equally, it can fall into the Lawful Evil-Neutral, Plane of Acheron type of the Mercykillers.
It depends as much on the harshness of the internal laws/treatment of people as it does the external laws/treatment of people, be they bystanders or "criminal" psions.