Author Topic: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards  (Read 167688 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2017, 01:20:16 PM »
What size are the Einst maids?

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2017, 03:07:42 PM »
Quick questions
1. Energy Substitution, can I choose Atomic? It's not all that superior to fire (specially given how often you hand DR out) and less useful than acid.
2. Turbo Operational Universal High Overcharge Utility, can I choose Divine Flame?
3. Still wanting to pick up the Nuclear Dragon theme & your God's abilities include Polymorph-like effects that can at least turn it into a Red Dragon, but not a Nuclear Dragon since it only exists as a Monster Class. So permission to copy per level per your Salient's text, and rather than following your previous I'm-still-taking-it-as-sarcastic suggestion of rolling abilities to determine if they are Ex/Su (thus breath weapon & maneuvers could be ex and obtained) I'd rather remain on how D&D has it which drops just about everything anyway rather than another renege. The only Exs that'd be obtained are Keen Senses, Blindsense, Spell Resistance, maybe some of the Heat related bonuses if you're so kind on things.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2017, 09:02:56 AM »
What size are the Einst maids?

Mecha-fine.

Quick questions
1. Energy Substitution, can I choose Atomic? It's not all that superior to fire (specially given how often you hand DR out) and less useful than acid.
2. Turbo Operational Universal High Overcharge Utility, can I choose Divine Flame?
3. Still wanting to pick up the Nuclear Dragon theme & your God's abilities include Polymorph-like effects that can at least turn it into a Red Dragon, but not a Nuclear Dragon since it only exists as a Monster Class. So permission to copy per level per your Salient's text, and rather than following your previous I'm-still-taking-it-as-sarcastic suggestion of rolling abilities to determine if they are Ex/Su (thus breath weapon & maneuvers could be ex and obtained) I'd rather remain on how D&D has it which drops just about everything anyway rather than another renege. The only Exs that'd be obtained are Keen Senses, Blindsense, Spell Resistance, maybe some of the Heat related bonuses if you're so kind on things.

1-If you have at least one Nuclear Dragon level, yes.
2-No.
3-No.

Also let me know when your sheet is ready for review again.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #163 on: October 28, 2017, 11:32:02 AM »
Also let me know when your sheet is ready for review again.
It'll probably be done by tomorrow afternoon. I can't really edit it from my phone to do it today, but all that's really left is filling in a few Maneuvers. But even so, it's not like selecting an Ace Pilot Maneuver or not is really going to change what you decide to ban next so you might as well go over it now.

Edit - Annnd done yet again.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 02:32:18 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #164 on: October 30, 2017, 04:54:14 AM »
Some minor things:
-Your character won't be able to cast spells while piloting a mecha geared with pure metal.
-Super spirits should cost +20% since most of your pilot levels are real.
-Initiate of Mystra demands cleric level 3 and worshiping Mystra. Besides the question of whetever Mystra even exists in this setting (the answer being no, as all big name gods have been nommed by Dark Force, something already discussed ooc), your character is already following their own family as far as worship goes if anything.

EDIT: Also since you're not going for reduced mecha stats, I assume you're fine with being limited to self-buffs while piloting (or no spells at all if you keep the pure metal gear)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 09:42:48 AM by oslecamo »

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2017, 03:48:36 PM »
-Your character won't be able to cast spells while piloting a mecha geared with pure metal.
I'm aware it takes a minute to remove light armor if I wanted to cast an offensive Spell. But I never really used any before, why burn a Slot to deal less than a gun?

EDIT: Also since you're not going for reduced mecha stats, I assume you're fine with being limited to self-buffs while piloting (or no spells at all if you keep the pure metal gear)
I had more free time today than expected, got the numbers all fixed out but the table not pushing things to the top like it's supposed to is kind of annoying.

-Super spirits should cost +20% since most of your pilot levels are real.
I know, that's why I listed the types. I also took an Accessory option that reduced Spirit cost by -20% to make it all better.

-Initiate of Mystra demands cleric level 3 cleric spell access (I seen your quote from Dragon Magic that changed this) and worshiping Mystra. Besides the question of whetever Mystra even exists in this setting (the answer being no, as all big name gods have been nommed by Dark Force, something already discussed ooc), your character is already following their own family as far as worship goes if anything.
Eh, I can change it if needed. Changed. All it really does is give me a roll to negate Antimagic on the Arcane Pilot side, something Bahamut's Salient Abilities already ignore, and you used to hate binary things to a point where you changed immunity effects to a bonus on rolls so it's not like you're savelessly wipe everything anyway right?

You know what, I missed Vistburn gives +4 Photon to Constitution so I got that added too. :blush
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 05:34:30 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2017, 05:09:34 AM »
Something else I missed, to get the material-specific benefits from pure crafting your character needs actually to be proficient in the stuff. And neither god nor the pilot classes grant proficiency with any armor or shield.

All it really does is give me a roll to negate Antimagic on the Arcane Pilot side, something Bahamut's Salient Abilities already ignore, and you used to hate binary things to a point where you changed immunity effects to a bonus on rolls so it's not like you're savelessly wipe everything anyway right?

Now that you mention it, Entropy Elemental is on the table now. You may want to prepare a spellbuff-less version of your character sheet in advance.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2017, 06:36:23 AM »
Something else I missed, to get the material-specific benefits from pure crafting your character needs actually to be proficient in the stuff. And neither god nor the pilot classes grant proficiency with any armor or shield.
A class doesn't really need to grant proficiency with light armor.
Quote from: PHB page 89
ARMOR PROFICIENCY (LIGHT) [GENERAL]
You are proficient with light armor (see Table 7–6: Armor and Shields, page 123).
Benefit: When you wear a type of armor with which you are proficient, the armor check penalty for that armor applies only to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble checks.
Normal: A character who is wearing armor with which she is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.
Special: All characters except wizards, sorcerers, and monks automatically have Armor Proficiency (light) as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
Since all characters already obtain it unless something says they don't.
Quote from: For Example
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a sorcerer’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
So you should fix your Classes if you really don't want them wearing Light Armor. But I'll drop the Shield when I get home later.

You may want to prepare a spellbuff-less version of your character sheet in advance.
That's the point of breaking the bonuses down. Buuuut, a thought occurred to me and I think I'll drop Bite of the Wearbear at one of the buffs anyway. That way everything he buffs is something he can cast multiple times each day.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 06:39:16 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2017, 11:13:19 PM »
Fascinating, hiding an universal rule in the feat section. And some classes say they specifically don't have shield proficiency just for the lulz I guess.

Added clause to the SRWd20 Basics thread that pilot classes do not gain any proficiencies that are not stated in their entry, and the same for the monster classes.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #169 on: November 01, 2017, 02:22:47 AM »
Fascinating, hiding an universal rule in the feat section. And some classes say they specifically don't have shield proficiency just for the lulz I guess.

Added clause to the SRWd20 Basics thread that pilot classes do not gain any proficiencies that are not stated in their entry, and the same for the monster classes.

Why? At least, for the pilot classes, you may as well be saying that they aren't proficient in wearing clothing. I own coats as encumbering as light armour is meant to be. There's not some hidden broken threat lurking in what you can do with light armour, and the tricks to drag medium armour down without spell penalties don't work with pure metal. Nor are some AC bonuses the end of the world..

It also makes the Super Pilot-specific feat that grants them the ability to integrate pure metal pretty hilarious if they can't use it because that requires extra proficiencies. <.<

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4241
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #170 on: November 01, 2017, 03:31:58 AM »
Hahaha, Rainy's right. Nobody can use Pure Metal options in mechas if no Pilots are proficient with Armor/Shields much less Mechas  :lmao

Also, shit, that makes the shield I just bought useless -_-'

Like, honestly Os, making that change is kinda silly because you seem to be making it explicitly in regards to Pure Metal rather than Armor/Shields in general. >>
There's already BAB requirements to using Pure Metal. Literally level locking that stuff. Why is it necessary to take it further to proficiencies? Not being proficient in any armors at all doesn't make an Adamantine Fullplate suddenly not grant the nonproficient wearer its DR X/Adamantine.....
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 03:36:09 AM by ketaro »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #171 on: November 01, 2017, 04:12:00 AM »
Fascinating, hiding an universal rule in the feat section. And some classes say they specifically don't have shield proficiency just for the lulz I guess.

Added clause to the SRWd20 Basics thread that pilot classes do not gain any proficiencies that are not stated in their entry, and the same for the monster classes.

Why? At least, for the pilot classes, you may as well be saying that they aren't proficient in wearing clothing.

Professional sniper, both in or out of mecha, seasoned guerilla fighter, doesn't know how to wear a shirt.  :smirk

I own coats as encumbering as light armour is meant to be. There's not some hidden broken threat lurking in what you can do with light armour, and the tricks to drag medium armour down without spell penalties don't work with pure metal. Nor are some AC bonuses the end of the world..
Well it's not just AC bonuses. Also hardness and assorted extra abilities that would normally cost a pretty penny to get as magic items.

However it's only the material-specific bonus you miss for not having proficiency. The standard extra AC and hardness are gained even if you don't know how to use it.

Soro may want standard pure iron since pure adamantine won't get him that much for the extra price.

It also makes the Super Pilot-specific feat that grants them the ability to integrate pure metal pretty hilarious if they can't use it because that requires extra proficiencies. <.<
Good point, updated the feat to ignore proficiency requirements.

Hahaha, Rainy's right. Nobody can use Pure Metal options in mechas if no Pilots are proficient with Armor/Shields much less Mechas  :lmao
You know, you can just buy proficiencies with feats (or multiclassing, even easier in gestalt).

Also, shit, that makes the shield I just bought useless -_-'
You can retrain a feat if you want. Or if you just wanted the AC and hardness, you can keep it like that.

Like, honestly Os, making that change is kinda silly because you seem to be making it explicitly in regards to Pure Metal rather than Armor/Shields in general. >>
There's already BAB requirements to using Pure Metal. Literally level locking that stuff. Why is it necessary to take it further to proficiencies? Not being proficient in any armors at all doesn't make an Adamantine Fullplate suddenly not grant the nonproficient wearer its DR X/Adamantine.....
It's not enough having a nice suit, you need to know how to properly wear it to look really great. Ditto for suits of armor.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:15:45 AM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4241
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #172 on: November 01, 2017, 04:27:10 AM »
I definitely got the shield explicitly for the Freedom of Movement effect at masterwork -_-'

Simply retraining a feat isn't as simple as you're making it sound.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2017, 04:52:08 AM »
Glancing at your character sheet, you seem to have Oversized Two-Weapon fighting.

However Mystic Dream already allows you to add full Str mod to both youkai-forged blades when TWFing.

So OTWF only helps when using other pair of weapons, except then Mystic Dream doesn't apply at all and you would suffer normal TWF penalties to attack rolls anyway.

Thus that's a feat ripe for retraining in my humble opinion. You only lose about 4 damage with your off-hand when TWF with weapons besides your Youkai-Forged blades.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:55:35 AM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4241
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2017, 06:31:05 AM »
The point of the feat was to dual wield the same sized weapons instead of having to use a mere light weapon in the offhand. OTWF doesn't give you full strength on offhand attacks either. The difference in damage is the current 6d8 versus 4d6 with a light weapon.

Just going on averages thats like, what, a difference of 15 damage per swing with 3 swings on offhand? Maybe average-ly rounding to a difference of almost 50 damage on a full attack between light and non-light.

Thinking about that though reminds me I could have actually gotten a pair of one-handed weapons instead of a pair of daggers for basically the same price  :plotting

Oh geez I just realized I couldn't even make use of the pure metal shield even just for the AC bonuses because I can't TWF with it as that is a property of the Pure Mythril specifically  :banghead
Blaaaaah, if this persists I'm probably just going to be donating all this refunded cash -_-' Or something for Wisdom and still throwing the rest at charity....

And then I realized I wasted 5k gp on a second dagger when I bought a mercury pistol that could be shapechanged into a second dagger anyways. Refunded that yay I'm dumb :D
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 07:01:04 AM by ketaro »

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2017, 10:26:21 AM »
Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2017, 03:58:09 PM »
Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<
Like Voltron, Pacific Rim, or Gundam Seed. Fun fact, per Modern the US Airforce's pilot suits give a +2 Equipment (sic armor) bonus to AC making it slightly better than the +1 bonus a vest made out of leaves gives.

Also I for one think Osl should be the one rooting for bikinis giving out huge AC bonuses given his disposition on loving mostly naked women that never really suffer any injuries despite taking falls and flames that'd outright kill a normal person. Our female cast can't be nude if they need to dress up in clothing that actually covers anything.

However it's only the material-specific bonus you miss for not having proficiency. The standard extra AC and hardness are gained even if you don't know how to use it. Soro may want standard pure iron since pure adamantine won't get him that much for the extra price.
Sweet.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:20:19 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Kuroimaken

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5348
  • No obstacle too great for the FLAMES IN MY HEART!!
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2017, 04:06:43 PM »
Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<
Given that the robots in TTGL are generally of the Super kind, uniforms may be more of a Real Pilot thing.

Also: oh snap, most of my levels are in Super Pilot. Hugo has just lost shirt proficiency!
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #178 on: November 01, 2017, 04:27:58 PM »
Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<
Given that the robots in TTGL are generally of the Super kind, uniforms may be more of a Real Pilot thing.

Also: oh snap, most of my levels are in Super Pilot. Hugo has just lost shirt proficiency!


Mazinger et al, Getter Robo, and Evangelion all have pilot suits of some sort or another. :P

Secondary question: how big is this room?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:48:15 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: High End OOC thread IV-End of minmaxboards
« Reply #179 on: November 01, 2017, 08:04:42 PM »
Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<
Meh, the priest kid knew how to cover his chest.

Also Yoko's basically in the top 3 of the show's pilots considering she fights and survives both seasons including the last battle.

Yoko isn't much of a pilot, though. However, Gurren Lagann, specifically, may be called the land of no shirts. I'm pretty certain that's not normal. Pilot suits are a thing elsewhere. <.<
Given that the robots in TTGL are generally of the Super kind, uniforms may be more of a Real Pilot thing.

Also: oh snap, most of my levels are in Super Pilot. Hugo has just lost shirt proficiency!


Mazinger et al, Getter Robo, and Evangelion all have pilot suits of some sort or another. :P
Getter's crew were all selected because they were badass fighters before even knowing mechas were a thing in their world. Kouji and Sinji both first pilot their machines with no special suits, meaning they picked up proficiency later.

And then there's Gundam Iron Orphans where the protagonist side goes to battle shirtless at every opportunity and even the not-Char loses his shirt when going for a big upgrade.

Code Geass had a pilot in bunny suit, and Turn A Gundam had the main character piloting in a fabulous dress. Both had unique animations made for SRW video games!

Secondary question: how big is this room?

Roughly hexagonal shaped, about 120 mu wide.