Author Topic: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)  (Read 5727 times)

Offline ImperatorK

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(I know that Pistolero and Mysterius Stranger shouldn't stack by RAI, but meh, it's not an overpowered class or combination, so I'm making an exception.)

Gestalted Gunslinger and Alchemist. Not yet sure were I want to take the character. I'm trying to make him work from 1st level onward so that he's reasonably effective on any level.
I was thinking about maybe focusing on bombs + Explosive Missile discovery, at least at earlier levels.
He will be using revolvers (as soon as he's able to make them). TWFing revolvers also sounds cool, and unlike melee, with touch attacks he's more likely to hit even with the penalties, although per RAW a revolver is a one-handed weapon, so maybe the penalties will be too big, I dunno.
Is it worth to take Pistolero if I will be using primarily revolvers, BUT sometimes, in some circumstances will shoot a rifle?
Is there any synergy between Gunslinger and Alchemist?
What archetype should I take for Alchemist? I'm thinking Grenadier.
I'm going for a character who is an inventor (from a family of inventors). His grandfather made one of the first (early) firearms and he improved them into advanced firearms (so they're quite unique in the setting, the ones he made are the only prototypes, for personal use only for now).
I don't mind suggestions for magic items, but would like the character/build to not be too dependent on any specific gear selection.
I'm not averse to magic per se, otherwise I wouldn't be taking Alchemist, but the character is more like an engineer/mechanic than a spellcaster. Sure, he'll use his formulae and stuff, but nothing overly magical (like growing an arm for example).

It would be my first time doing anything with both of those classes, so this is a request for optimization tips and suggestions for what to do with this combo in general. If there's anything I misses that is important or I'm unclear somewhere (which I probably am) don't hesitate to ask.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:38:52 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (?)
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 06:57:47 PM »
Pistolero removes your two-handed firearms proficiency, so if you take it, you cannot fire rifles (proficiently) without another feat. However, I think it's still worth it.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (?)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM »
I think Grenadier will work decently with Gunslinger.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 04:39:54 PM »
Bump.
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Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 09:01:21 PM »
The main synergy an alchemist brings to a gunslinger is extra arms to use more guns / have a free hand to reload them all and to add sneak attack to those already nasty touch attack hits (Vivisectionist).  And since you use dex for attack and damage, dex mutagen is pretty nice, and being a mysterious stranger, the wis hit won't even really matter like it normally would for grit.  Or go Mindchemist and use Cognatogen on Cha.  Another nice synergy...since gun base damage can scale up so fast...is to turn into a large or huge creature, gets pistols up to 2d6 or 3d6 each.  More w/ a wand of Gravity Bow.  Abundant Ammunition can also be helpful for those pricy paper cartridges.

And I definitely think it's worth it to b a pistolero; the only time it's not worth it is if you're dead set on using a 2H firearm primarily, it's just such a strong archetype.

(And RAW be damned, if you're going to let the archetypes stack because you want both, at least be decent enough to remove either the cha or dex to damage, getting both is just overpowered)

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 09:37:50 PM »
Quote
extra arms to use more guns
If I remember correctly, Vestigial Arm doesn't give more attacks. Either way, I don't like the aesthetic of having additional arms. Maybe if the effect worked only for a time, say a few minutes, yes, but permanent, no. And concealing it is too much trouble.

Quote
have a free hand to reload them all and to add sneak attack to those already nasty touch attack hits (Vivisectionist)
I'm more interested in bombs than SA, thus Grenadier. Explosive Missile, although probably not that good of a discovery, is very cool flavor-wise, I can't not have it.
As for reloading, I'm houseruling Rapid Reload to bring one-handed advanced firearms down to free action (like a hand/light crossbow). Still doesn't help with TWFing, tho...

Quote
Abundant Ammunition can also be helpful for those pricy paper cartridges.
Revolver. Metal cartridges. Abundant Ammo should still work, right?

Quote
(And RAW be damned, if you're going to let the archetypes stack because you want both, at least be decent enough to remove either the cha or dex to damage, getting both is just overpowered)
Costs grit and lasts one round. If anything, it makes the build more MAD, so it should at least get something good for it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:45:03 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline xzyx

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 11:36:09 PM »
Mysterious Stranger isn't that good an archetype. Sure, it's CHA to damage, but it's in place of the DEX to damage ability he had, and I believe DEX is a more useful ability. Also, pistolero is nice, but actually nicer if you are a single classed (or almost single classed) character, as it's bonuses are spaced out.

Grenadier archetype is almost a must - considering you get Precise Bombs for free with it.

Explosive Missile is actually a freaking awesome discovery, if you interpret it the way I do. Why? Because then you an fire bombs.

Think a bit. What is the second biggest problem of the gunslinger (after reloading time hehe)? Money. At 1 GP each bullet (or more, if you want a fancy bullet) you are shooting gold at your enemies (even tough that depends a lot on how much gold does your DM give you). Now BAM!, you have some free exploding bullets every day. Also, with the right discoveries, they can do stuff (and circuvent another of the gunslinger's weaknessess, which is, the fact that he is mundane). Like blinding or nauseating bombs.

I have a build I've been messing around, based on the concept of an gunslinger alchemist that rides a mammoth with a cannon on its back (but this is optional) for laughs, I'll post it for you to see, tough it uses some 3.5 material too.

I'm posting the complete build for sake of completion. If you don't like the mammoth with a cannon thing (tough I can't see what isn't cool about a mammoth with a cannon), simply remove the level of mammoth rider and take some other archetype instead of Wyrm Sniper. Also, there may be small mistakes on the build, as I have edited it a lot and so, there may be an illegal feat here or there that I haven't found yet.


Human Gunslinger 1/Alchemist 8/Mammoth Rider 1/Fighter 2/Gunslinger +7

Archetypes:Grenadier, Lore Warden Fighter and Wyrm Sniper Gunslinger

1-Point Blank Shot
(Human)- Precise Shot
(Gunslinger)- Gunsmith
(Gunslinger)- EWP Pistols
(Gunslinger)- EWP Cannon or whatever
3-Deadly Shot
5-Rapid Reload
7-Wild Cohort*
9-Extra Discovery
11-Extra Discovery
(Fighter)- Two Weapon Fighting
12- (Fighter)- Improved Two Weapon Fighting
(Fighter) Combat Expertise
13-Extra Discovery
14-(Gunslinger)- Siege Commander
15-Improved Two Weapon Fighting
17-Rapid Shot
18-(Gunslinger)-  Signature Deed (Dead shot)
19-Signature Deed (Munitions Master)

*If your DM doesn't like the idea of using Wild Cohort as an animal companion for pre-requisites, substitute for Skill Focus (Handle Animal) and 1 level of Beastmaster.

Don't forget to take Precise Bombs, Explosive Missile and Fast Bombs, no matter what.

The idea is that you either use Dead Shot + Bomb+ Deadly Shot (2 times deadly haha) on your cannon sometimes, and at others your attack a lot of times using your bombs + your pistols. You add both your INT and your DEX on your shots, so have them both really high. And you have a few extracts to have fun with.

EDIT: The Mechanist archetype is also cool, keep it in mind. It uses intelligence for grit, adds extra damage (remember ALL fixed extra damage is applied to your secondary bomb targets) and makes you a LOT better against casters.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 11:43:41 PM by xzyx »

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 11:41:56 PM »
Quote
Now BAM!, you have some free exploding bullets every day.
Actually you still pay for those bullets, the shots are just more worthwhile, because they have the bomb's effects and damage added.
Magic is for weaklings.

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Offline xzyx

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 11:50:24 PM »
Quote
Now BAM!, you have some free exploding bullets every day.
Actually you still pay for those bullets, the shots are just more worthwhile, because they have the bomb's effects and damage added.

You ruined my day.  :tongue

(My DMs never distribute enough money hehehe)

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 11:53:50 PM »
Make your ammo yourself. Then it's just 10% of the original price, I believe.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: [3.P] Gunslinger (Pistolero/Mysterius Stranger) // Alchemist (Grenadier)
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 01:30:48 PM »
Ugh. I started considering the Mechanist archetype, but unfortunately it's not compatible with Pistolero (both replace Menacing Shot deed).
Magic is for weaklings.

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