Author Topic: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy  (Read 2915 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« on: July 30, 2015, 12:19:54 PM »
I'm running my group through Expedition to the Demonweb Pits at the moment.  Like many of the other "Expedition to..." series of super modules, WotC included some Weapons of Legacy in the module.

But I hate the way Weapons of Legacy were handled.  Permanent penalties to your character? Yuck.

So I went searching for how others might have dealt with this issue, and found this, which I like:
Quote
I've made extensive use of Weapons of Legacy in my campaign.

First thing I do is calculate the items's gp cost. Then I assign ritual costs as if the item was created by the pc, shifting most of the gp cost on a 5 by 1 ratio to xp. E.g. a typical WoL Least Ritual will cost about 1000 gp and 2000 xp. I completely ignore the penalty tables.

This has worked very well.

Expedition to the Demonweb Pits has two WoL.  Spidersilk (a drow mithral chain shirt), and Thaas (a demon-bane elven longbow).  Since I'm using the homebrew method of the ritual costs quoted above, I need to figure out the costs of each item, at each tier of abilities.  I'll have to add to this later, but for now I've worked up what I think the Least tier should be for Spidersilk.  I've provided a few different divisions of gold cost to XP cost.

A few notes on the abilities.  Spiderfriend is as Sanctuary, but only for spiders.  Since Sanctuary is 1 round/level, the cost should be multiplied by 4, but since it only works against spiders, I divided it by 4 again.  Spidersilk also has an ability that lessens Arcane Spell Failure by 5% to 5%.  I priced this as half of the 5,000 gp it would take to add Twilight (a +1 enhancement) to a suit of +2 armor.

What do you think?

Spidersilk (Least) abilities:
Non-Legacy: +1 Mithral Chain Shirt

Least: +2 Mithral Chain Shirt   (pay the extra +1)      3000 gp
   - Half of Twilight (ASF reduced by 5% to 5%)         2500 gp
   - False Life 1/day                                                2160 gp
   - Spiderfriend (Sanctuary vs Spiders, so *4 /4)      2000 gp
   - Summon 1 Med spider 1/day (2nd level spell)      2160 gp
   - Web spell 3/day                                                6480 gp

Total Least Cost over +1 Mithral Chain Shirt            18,300 gp

Ritual Cost:
         1500 gp and 3360 xp
         1300 gp and 3400 xp
         1800 gp and 3300 xp

Lastly, I don't have the Weapons of Legacy book.  None of the spell-like abilities granted by the armor list any information as to caster level of the effects.  Can anyone tell me if there is a general rule in WoL, such that the CL is treated as the character level of the wielder? Or is it always the minimum caster level?

Thanks.  I'll add the first tier of Thaas to this once I get a chance to write it up later.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 12:00:39 PM »
As long as DMs don't play the "I've got all your WBL locked up/destroyed!" item-familiar game, permanent penalties are fine by me. Players should understand to not make it easy to destroy their WoL's though

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 02:15:23 PM »
Thaas (Least) abilities:
Non-Legacy: +1 Composite Longbow   - 2,400 gp

Least: +1 Evil Outsider Bane Composite (any Str) Longbow
   - Bane is +1    - 6,000 gp
   - Sense Demons (basically Detect Evil)   - 1800 gp
   - Strength Adjusting (effectively a Bow of the Wintermoon)   - 1,000 gp
   - Obstruct Summoning, lesser (Always on, half-strength Forbiddance?)   - 16,500 gp

There doesn't seem to be a good model to use in attempting to price the Obstruct Summoning ability.  The lesser version as a 60-foot radius field that causes all attempts by demons of 10 HD or less that use their summon ability to automatically fail in summoning any demons, wasting the ability.  The best approximation of that is the spell Forbiddance, which creates a permanent, immobile 60-foot cube (can be up to one 60-ft cube per level, but each cube costs 1,500 gp) that blocks all inter-planar travel into or out of it, including summons.  As an continuous effect of what would normally be a permanent spell, that costs Spell Level x CL x 2000 x 0.5 gp, or 6 x 11 x 1000 = 66,000.  But it only affects summoning (halve the cost?), and only works on those 10 HD and less (halve it again?), so... 16,500?

It is mobile, and a larger area than one 60-foot cube, but whatever; that probably mitigates the fact the ability only affects demons, not other outsiders.

Extra ability total costs:   25,300 gp

Ritual Costs:
      2,000 gp, and 4,660 xp
      2,300 gp, and 4,600 xp
           

Sort of Edit:  I just remembered Otiluke's Suppressing Field, which could nearly exactly duplicate the summon obstructing effect, limiting it only to Conjuration (Summoning) spells.  However, OSF is only a 20-foot radius, and it allows a CL check to beat it and have your spell work anyway.  A continuous item of Widened OSF would cost 7 x 13 x 2,000 x 1.5, or 273,000 gp...  Yeah... I'll stick with the Forbiddance version of calculation.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 10:09:36 AM »
The Least Legacy abilities of Thaas makes it a +1 Bane weapon (8400 gp), with 19,300 gp worth of fixed cost abilities added to it.

I'm at the point where the Paladin has awakened it, and will likely soon look to advance it further, to the Lesser Legacy level.  So I best figure out its cost.

The abilities to be gained from levels 11 to 16 include:
(Note, by the book, Thaas is a double Bane weapon... which is dumb.  By the rules, you can't double-stack Bane effects.  Sometimes the writers are dumb.  Once it becomes double-bane in the book, I'm just keeping it an Evil Bane weapon, but instead upping its base enhancement by +1)

Thaas gains +3 to its enhancement, becoming a +4 Evil Bane weapon, with the same 19,300 gp of fixed-cost abilities as before (whether you used the book statted double-bane, or you shift the second Bane to a flat enhancement, the costs are the same).  So, an effectively (priced as) +5 weapon, plus 19,300 gp, plus the 400 gp for the base composite longbow.  Total cost: 69,700 gp.

The difference in price from the Least Legacy level is only 42,000 gp.

Ritual Cost:
5,000 gp and 7,400 xp, or
4,000 gp and 7,600 xp


Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 10:20:16 PM »
Here are some recalculations for Spidersilk.  I obtained a copy of Weapons of Legacy, and was able to determine the CL for several of the abilities (from the "build-your-own" section in the back), and that upped some of the costs for the first tier.  Still, I cut some breaks due to disparity with existing similar items (Cloak of Arachnida), and limited function (only spider swarms).

Spidersilk (Least) abilities:
Non-Legacy: +1 Mithral Chain Shirt

Least: +2 Mithral Chain Shirt   (pay the extra +1)      3000 gp
   - Half of Twilight (ASF reduced by 5% to 5%)         2500 gp
   - False Life 1/day  (CL 5)               2160 gp (3,600 gp)
   - Spiderfriend (Sanctuary vs Spiders, so *4 /4)      2000 gp
   - Summon 1 Med spider 1/day (SM II) (CL 5)      2160 gp (3,600 gp)
   - Web spell 3/day (CL 7)               6480 gp (15,120 gp)

Total Least Cost over +1 Mithral Chain Shirt            18,300 gp (29,820 gp)
                  Alternate:      21,180 gp

Ritual Cost:
         1500 gp and 3360 xp            (2820 gp and 5400 xp)
         1300 gp and 3400 xp
         1800 gp and 3300 xp            (2180 gp and 3800 xp)




Lesser:  +3 Glamered Mithral Chain Shirt
   - 2nd Half of Twilight               2500 gp
   - +3 (pay the extra +1)            7000 gp
   - Glamered                     2700 gp
   - Summon Swarm 5/day (CL 10)(/3 for spider)   36,000 gp (12,000 gp)
   - Spider Climb   (CL 10)            40,000 gp (14,000 gp)
   - Maximize Spell, Lesser (same as lesser rod)   14,000 gp
   - Spell Storing, Minor (as minor ring)      18,000 gp

Total Lesser Cost over Least cost            94,200 gp (70,200 gp)

Ritual Cost:
   8200 gp and 17,200 xp               (6200 gp and 12800 xp)
   9200 gp and 17,000 xp               (5200 gp and 13000 xp)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help me price out some Weapons of Legacy
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2017, 01:30:31 PM »
Thaas (Least) abilities:
Non-Legacy: +1 Composite Longbow   - 2,400 gp

Least: +1 Evil Outsider Bane Composite (any Str) Longbow
   - Bane is +1    - 6,000 gp
   - Sense Demons (basically Detect Evil)   - 1800 gp
   - Strength Adjusting (effectively a Bow of the Wintermoon)   - 1,000 gp
   - Obstruct Summoning, lesser (Always on, half-strength Forbiddance?)   - 16,500 gp

There doesn't seem to be a good model to use in attempting to price the Obstruct Summoning ability.  The lesser version as a 60-foot radius field that causes all attempts by demons of 10 HD or less that use their summon ability to automatically fail in summoning any demons, wasting the ability.  The best approximation of that is the spell Forbiddance, which creates a permanent, immobile 60-foot cube (can be up to one 60-ft cube per level, but each cube costs 1,500 gp) that blocks all inter-planar travel into or out of it, including summons.  As an continuous effect of what would normally be a permanent spell, that costs Spell Level x CL x 2000 x 0.5 gp, or 6 x 11 x 1000 = 66,000.  But it only affects summoning (halve the cost?), and only works on those 10 HD and less (halve it again?), so... 16,500?

It is mobile, and a larger area than one 60-foot cube, but whatever; that probably mitigates the fact the ability only affects demons, not other outsiders.

Extra ability total costs:   25,300 gp

Ritual Costs:
      2,000 gp, and 4,660 xp
      2,300 gp, and 4,600 xp
           

Sort of Edit:  I just remembered Otiluke's Suppressing Field, which could nearly exactly duplicate the summon obstructing effect, limiting it only to Conjuration (Summoning) spells.  However, OSF is only a 20-foot radius, and it allows a CL check to beat it and have your spell work anyway.  A continuous item of Widened OSF would cost 7 x 13 x 2,000 x 1.5, or 273,000 gp...  Yeah... I'll stick with the Forbiddance version of calculation.
The Least Legacy abilities of Thaas makes it a +1 Bane weapon (8400 gp), with 19,300 gp worth of fixed cost abilities added to it.

I'm at the point where the Paladin has awakened it, and will likely soon look to advance it further, to the Lesser Legacy level.  So I best figure out its cost.

The abilities to be gained from levels 11 to 16 include:
(Note, by the book, Thaas is a double Bane weapon... which is dumb.  By the rules, you can't double-stack Bane effects.  Sometimes the writers are dumb.  Once it becomes double-bane in the book, I'm just keeping it an Evil Bane weapon, but instead upping its base enhancement by +1)

Thaas gains +3 to its enhancement, becoming a +4 Evil Bane weapon, with the same 19,300 gp of fixed-cost abilities as before (whether you used the book statted double-bane, or you shift the second Bane to a flat enhancement, the costs are the same).  So, an effectively (priced as) +5 weapon, plus 19,300 gp, plus the 400 gp for the base composite longbow.  Total cost: 69,700 gp.

The difference in price from the Least Legacy level is only 42,000 gp.

Ritual Cost:
5,000 gp and 7,400 xp, or
4,000 gp and 7,600 xp

My party is finally nearing 17th level, so I need to hammer out the pricing of the last tier of abilities granted by Thaas.

The early fixed abilities have a fixed cost of 19,300 gp.  That cost plus the basic weapon enhancements of the first tier of abilities totaled 25,300 gp.

The second tier of abilities, which was all basic enhancements (just me altering it to one bane ability, and upping the base enhancement bonus up by +1) cost an additional 42,000 gp.

Using my enhancement alterations, the non-unique abilities at 20th level would make Thaas a +4 Holy Evil Outsider Bane Composite Longbow.  Such a weapon would price as a +7 Composite Longbow, or 98,400 gp.

Since Thaas' second tier of non-unique abilities was priced as a +4 Evil Outsider Bane Composite Longbow (valued at 50,400 gp), plus 19,300 in unique abilities, the added cost that my party paladin will have to pay for to gain this third tier of abilities is 98,400 – 50,400 = 48,000 gp

The first of the unique abilities of Thaas' upper tier is an expansion of its previous Lesser Obstruct Summoning ability (which I priced earlier by halving the cost due to it only working on evil outsiders of 10 HD or less), so undoing that halving, and adding 16,500 gp back into the cost covers that ability.  The other two abilities are both Banishment and Plane Shift each once per day with "a command word and a gesture."

Command Word effects cost (Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp)/5 for a single use per day (the example item is even a single-use per day item, the Cloak of the Mountebank; despite the item having a CL of 9th listed, it calculates the Cloak of the Mountebank as CL 7th, the minimum to cast Dimension Door).
So, the two Command Word spell effects, based upon a Wizard casting those spells, should cost:
Banishment:  (7 × 13 × 1,800 gp)/5 = 32,760 gp
Plane Shift:  (7 × 13 × 1,800 gp)/5 = 32,760 gp
A cleric casting those spells would be a bit less (as they are 6th and 5th level spells, respectively), but using the higher Wizard casting for the pricing covers any underpricing that might have occurred for the absolute, no HD limit summoning lock-out.

Thus, the total added value of Thaas' Greater Legacy abilities over his Least and Lesser Legacy abilities is 130,020 gp.

130,020 / 11 = 11,820

Ritual Cost (Greater Legacy):
11,820 gp and 23,640 xp, or
12,000 gp and 23,604 xp, or
12,020 gp and 23,600 xp


Just a recap, here is the total pricing of Thaas' full abilities:

+4 Holy Evil Outsider Bane Composite Longbow - 98,400 gp
Thaas' unique special abilities were priced out this way:
   - Sense Demons (basically Detect Evil)   - 1800 gp
   - Strength Adjusting (effectively a Bow of the Wintermoon)   - 1,000 gp
   - Obstruct Summoning, lesser (Always on, half-strength Forbiddance?)   - 16,500 gp
   - Obstruct Summoning (uncapped) (Always on, half-strength Forbiddance?)   - 16,500 gp
   - 1/day Command Word Banishment   - 32,760 gp
   - 1/day Command Word Plane Shift   - 32,760 gp

Thaas' full cost, in gold pieces:  199,720 gp