It would be nice to know what overall power level you're shooting for with these. I've always looked at your ToBhou disciplines, compared them to my mental model of the existing ToB disciplines (and classes), and thought "Damn, boy, this shit be OP!" But if they're all internally balanced amongst each other at some level, well, that's a different story, one that's all fine and dandy.
The classes in this work possess a heavier magical component than those in Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, and interact with spellcasting-related feats and prestige classes in a similar manner to the warlock (Complete Arcane).
While they cannot qualify for feats and prestige classes with a spellcaster level requirement (since they cannot cast spells), members of these classes can meet caster level requirements by using their initiator level in place of their caster level. Likewise, prestige classes which advance spellcasting ability may be used to advance the maneuvers of one of these classes instead. This does not apply to characters who gain access to these disciplines through other sources (such as the Martial Study feat).
Maneuvers from the schools in this work count as arcane spells of one level lower for meeting prerequisites, except for Dream Battle and Lunatic Princess which count as divine spells of one level lower. An initiator of one of these schools does not possess spell slots, however, and cannot benefit from abilities which require the expenditure of spell slots or prepared spells (such as Arcane Strike or Spontaneous Healer).
Equipment and movement are explained in Puppeteer's theater, the 1st level stance.
hey use your feats/class abilities yes, and I'm not that worried about standstill/knockdown since those are extremely specialized builds, so you better be really good at it (plus being in a Doll Judgement stance means not being in that other stance that gives you endless aoos, and the dolls have capped aoos of their own).
Yes blue dolls can benefit enemies. They're not called benevolent for nothing. :p
Altough I'm open to change stuff if any seems too strong/weak.
She's on the works, along with rough drafts for Mei Ling, Komachi and Eirin but I may just end up finishing Remilia next since she seems to be quite requested. She would be the third base discipline of the Eternal Royal, suposedly going into Lunatic Lancer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6782.msg110715#msg110715) (that I probably should transfer here). Flandre would then be converted into a Forbidden School.
I don't believe it's possible to turn a demon cherry tree into an item.
While working, I just got what I think is one great idea to mechanize Marisa. Class, discipline. The whole thing.Look at my avatar. I've been working on Marisa ever since I started this. I didn't post it yet because I believed it still wasn't good enough.
It could also be used for a Patchouli system.
We are in a never-ending rush period at work so I don't have much spare time this season, which might make fleshing out the whole thing pretty slow. I hope you're not working on something similar already.
There comes a point where there is no harm in making stuff up, then adjust them when a better concept idea comes up.
Yikes. Power creeping?It doesn't matter that the original ones are crap. I'm assured you would work on taking care of that, just as you made a base class by picking up the marshal and throwing in save-or-die, don't die when you're killed, exp/gold bonus, a bunch of immunities, planet-throwing, turn undead and a bunch of other goodies before adding in maneuvers and stances. :p
You may not know it but discipline specific legacy weapons aren't so discipline specific. They aren't that good to begin with and non-initiators can use them just about as well as any master of their key discipline. The key discipline is for the theme more than anything else.
In other news, it appears that 13.5 is coming out soon in its full version along with the demo for 14. Very soon.
Making a decent school for Nitori will finally be possible. Beware the science (and water...)!
I'll probably consider reviewing the disciplines once Miko and Futo's moves are all released. It seems Utsuho won't be playable despite that one screenshot.
Like there isn't some other dozens of characters with full sets of spellcards waiting to be done? I sometimes wonder why you give the latest game characters so much attention over the previous ones.I give attention to characters I like.
Yeah, I'd try to make them good weapons. Mostly by using existing legacy weapon abilities with the occasional adjustments to fit the theme. But in the end it remains a magic weapon that isn't more powerful by being used with by masters of a given school. Pretty much like the other legacy tob weapons.Hint: legacy weapons are broken in all senses of the word. Several options are horrible, several options are imba, and if you're basing your work on that horrible, terrible book, then I honestly doubt any good will come out of that.
Doesn't change the part where the characters you like just happen to be the protagonists of the latest titles.QuoteLike there isn't some other dozens of characters with full sets of spellcards waiting to be done? I sometimes wonder why you give the latest game characters so much attention over the previous ones.I give attention to characters I like.
I feel somewhat apathetic to most of the other characters.
Doesn't change the part where the characters you like just happen to be the protagonists of the latest titles.Not really. I didn't give you a list of the characters I liked.
It should have something to do with Taoism?
I mean, does Mystia Lorelei have something to do with history?
When a person dies, their spirit must cross the river to the Netherworld. It is Komachi's duty to ferry the dead across the river. The width and depth of the river changes depending on her mood. Also, if someone has done too much evil during their lifetime, they may even not be able to cross the river.
A shinigami judges one to be good or bad not by the amount of crimes, but by money. That is to say, not the money that the deceased may have had while they were alive, but rather the total amount of those who yearned and missed that person from the bottom of their hearts.
Komachi always demands those she guides to pay all the money they have, and anyone who hesitates to pay the full sum is dropped into the river midway through the journey. The river is made infinitely wide, and the unfortunate spirit is soon consumed by huge fishes and sea dinosaurs which were extinct in world of the living.
Okay, so the first part: if nobody misses you (which is more what that seems to be getting at), then you have a long trip. Not the amount of wealth they have, but how many people miss you. Okay, if you're the last to die, that sucks, but what else have you got to do?Read it again. It's the money that counts (I even bolded it). Not your own money, but the money from the people that cared about you.
Also, it doesn't really matter how shinigami judge good/evil (and if it's judged so bizarrely, it's kind of hard to describe them as 'embodiments of evil as a cosmic force'), since all that affects is the trip. It's still the Yama on the other end that determines the afterlife. And you're dead. What else have you got to do?That's the thing-if you don't get to the other side, you don't get judged, you don't get a shot at afterlife, and spend eternity being chewed by giant sharks.
A shinigami judges one to be good or bad not by the amount of crimes, but by money. That is to say, not the money that the deceased may have had while they were alive, but rather the total amount of those who yearned and missed that person from the bottom of their hearts. By the way, judging the amount of crimes of the dead is not Komachi's job and would be handled after crossing the river, but that's a story for another time.
After death, when she requests a passage fee from them, people tend to be surprised since the money they have on hand doesn't correspond to their own assets, but on the assets of his or her surrounding friends.
Very rich people tend to be despised during their life, and are astonished to see how little they have after death.
Komachi always demands those she guides to pay all the money they have, and anyone who hesitates to pay the full sum is dropped into the river midway through the journey. The river is made infinitely wide, and the unfortunate spirit is soon consumed by huge fishes and water dragon which were extinct in world of the living.
'Hesitates to pay the full sum' is vague--it could mean trying to bargain her down, or withhold money. It's a stretch to assume that it's simply 'doesn't immediately hand everything over'. And, again, you're dead. You're dead, and your spirit has come to the banks of the Sanzu River in order to cross, be judged, and reincarnate/whatever. There is no possible reason to want to cling to the money you unexpectedly have X amount of other than avarice.In all games that Komachi shows up it's pointed out the spirits of the recently dead are quite confused beings and take some time to realize what's hapening to them. Extorting them of their money and expecting them to just blindly acept is not exactly nice if you ask me. Punishing them with eternal purgation whitout any shot at redemption just because of some spare change is definetely evil.
Also, to say 'the complete razing of a village means that you have no money and therefore can't cross and therefore Neutral Evil' and 'if you have a cult of millions, therefore you quickly cross and therefore Neutral Evil' is assigning ZUN considerably more forethought than is honestly likely. It's also assuming that the shinigami has a damn clue what's going on in the mortal world. Imperfect rule to judge how long someone's journey should be? Yes. Entirely for selfish reasons? Nope.It is evil when you're profiting from it and don't move a single finger to try to change it. "Just doing my job" is a quite common excuse by evil doers. Komachi's happy with a flawed system because she gets to fill her pockets with it, and can even choose when to "work".
Using a somewhat awkward rule because that's the way things are done isn't Neutral Evil, it's LN.
And I still say that someone that slacks off all the time doesn't really fit the 'NE, all-about-business' mould very well.If she didn't slack off, then she would simply be LE. Being Neutral Evil means caring about your own well being above everything else. She knows she can slack off because she has a safe job position, so she slacks off regardless of dead spirits piling up across the land and royally screwing over the death-life balance.
There's also her SWR profile:(click to show/hide)
... really, a yugoloth? :huh
Well, seems like I'll have to make a races thread at this rate.
Does Momiji even has spellcards tough?
On other news, I have like half a dozen new Tobhou school drafts but seem unable to actually focus on one to finish it. But I seem to have managed to settle on Komachi now that I've come up with a couple signature mechanics for it. She'll come with a yugoloth monster class included.
Well, seems like I'll have to make a races thread at this rate.
Does Momiji even has spellcards tough?
On other news, I have like half a dozen new Tobhou school drafts but seem unable to actually focus on one to finish it. But I seem to have managed to settle on Komachi now that I've come up with a couple signature mechanics for it. She'll come with a yugoloth monster class included.
Two: Dog Sign "Rabies Bite" and Mountain Nomad "Expellee's Canaan".
Does Momiji even has spellcards tough?
Two: Dog Sign "Rabies Bite" and Mountain Nomad "Expellee's Canaan".
Unfortunately, nowhere near enough to do much with.
You're grasping at straws.Yuyuko organizes festivals, hires youkai, and is geting food from somewhere to feed Youmu. So the dead clearly have an use for money.
The money they have exists entirely to pay Komachi. There is no other reason for the souls of the dead to have money. It corresponds to the assets of those that miss them--but that doesn't mean that it's other people's money.
Komachi, similarly, has absolutely no need for it. What, exactly, is a functionally immortal ferryman of the dead going to spend money on?Geez, I dunno, how about half of her attacks that consist of throwing money as a weapon? ;)
It looks symbolic: the more people that miss you in life, the more money you have, the shorter your journey is. You pay the ferryman for passage with the money you have that exists entirely to pay the ferryman passage.And to be used as a weapon for Yugoloth society.
Eiki is annoyed with Komachi for slacking off, not for losing spirits in the river, so it's not something that's happening much, confusion or not.Because throwing spirits in the river if they even hesitate to pay is part of Komachi's job. Eiki would never scold her for that.
Therefore, 'evil' is stretching it, and deciding that shinigami, part of the natural order of life--because seriously, that's exactly what they exist for--are therefore embodiments of evil is just plain ridiculous.In D&D, the 99.9% of devil society exists because they managed to manipulate the order of life to make them a part of it. Evil corrupts systems or so I heard.
But whatever, this argument obviously isn't worth it.More than half the Touhou cast already feeds on humans. :rolleyes
You can count the likely evil things in Touhou on one hand--Mima and Yuuka probably are, then there's the Saigyou Ayakashi, which has no particular reason for killing people other than it can. Could possibly fit Rukia in if 'diet consists of people' equals 'inherently evil' when it's not human to start with. :/
On other news, I have like half a dozen new Tobhou school drafts but seem unable to actually focus on one to finish it.If you're interested I could go over one or two of those. Maybe help you finish them.
Also I have to ask you, where you live you're only considered a criminal if you somehow manage to prove you spend over 99% of your lifetime commiting crimes (aka that your life is an evil meadow)? Or do they actually take people to jail for finding a "single flower in a forest", aka finding a dead corpse inside your house with your bloody fingerprints all over it, despite the other 99% of your life looking normal until now?
You don't need to kill every single person you find with a sadistic smile to be considered a cold blooded murderer. One or a dozen will do.
If that helps, I found something very close to the shinigamis of Touhou in pathfinder.
Psychopomp. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/psychopomp)
In particularly the Vanth kind, as far as Komachi is concerned since one of their main functions is to protect souls along the River of Souls. They even fit the whole Enma-Shinigami relationship and administration thing.
The Vanth also have the other function of the non-Komachi Shinigami: dealing with things that won't die properly, such as immortals. :lmaoMaruts already have that job in standard D&D. :eh
Though that's also specifically the job of the Morrigna.
Besides Yugoloths already have their own organizations and hierarchies.Yes, and they don't fit at all.
But then I don't see why it HAS to be Yugoloths if the only thing related to them is the fluff for the martial school. Unless you had some mechanics already in the works related to them? Otherwise all I see is the Outsider requirement for it...
Hey, wanted to say that I really like the stuff on here. I am currently playing an Ancient Temple Warblade and it is really fun (even if my DM thinks I am a mite too strong :P) and thanks for making it.You can do a thread here all right.
Would a Meiling School be appropriate do you think? There is a lot of stuff you can pilfer from EoSD, IaMP and Hisoutensoku for names and effects.
Also if I wanted to make a Meiling School would I just make a thread here or do I need posting rights and permissions?
The Styx isn't the Sanzu river. It is similar but not the same.As they say, it's all about the money. Komachi both uses it as a weapon and as a measurement stick of "Do I screw you over or not".
The one trait that particularly seems to interest him is that they sometimes drive people into fiend ambushes along the way if they don't pay enough. Which is perhaps sorta like kicking them off the boat if they hesitate to pay everything.
Though I still don't see how that makes up for everything else that just doesn't work.
If they were the only option for a soul-boater available, maybe, and even then. Not the case.
It would feel quite out of the way if a psychopomp ripped off its own wings and proceeded to accept bribes while screwing over those that don't pay it enough coin.Not sure why ripping wings off is necessary. The bribe in Touhou is not a bribe, it is part of the system and they are taking back money granted to them by that system. You are just twisting the interpretation so that it may fit your limited vision, and even then it is very poorly done. They can wield scythes but it isn't part of their creed. The others wield it like a symbol of their office, just like a shinigami, which are, again, psychopomps.
Well thankfully Riverside View doesn't seek to cover all kinds of Shinigami, just the boat ones.Thankfully that doesn't change anything. One kind is specialized in being the guide/ferrymen of the river, have boats, they are shinigamis, and yugoloths aren't.
Hey, wanted to say that I really like the stuff on here. I am currently playing an Ancient Temple Warblade and it is really fun (even if my DM thinks I am a mite too strong :P) and thanks for making it.You can do a thread here all right.
Would a Meiling School be appropriate do you think? There is a lot of stuff you can pilfer from EoSD, IaMP and Hisoutensoku for names and effects.
Also if I wanted to make a Meiling School would I just make a thread here or do I need posting rights and permissions?
A Meiling school is something I've been trying to get out for over a year now, but I always get blocked whitout even geting beyond first level stuff.
Here's my notes on that matter, hope they'll help you:(click to show/hide)
Some psychopomps of the mythos require money for passage.You mean yugoloths. Pathfinder psychopomps most certainly aren't on a boat neither do they have ferries, unless you would be so kind as to provide the exact quote from the pathfinder site.
If you actually paid attention while reading, you'd see it mentioned here and there that they are ferrymen of the River of Souls. There are ferrying souls. On a ferry. A boat.
Komachi, like other Maeroloths, doesn't have wings of any kind last time I checked.QuoteIt would feel quite out of the way if a psychopomp ripped off its own wings and proceeded to accept bribes while screwing over those that don't pay it enough coin.Not sure why ripping wings off is necessary.
The bribe in Touhou is not a bribe, it is part of the system and they are taking back money granted to them by that system. You are just twisting the interpretation so that it may fit your limited vision, and even then it is very poorly done. They can wield scythes but it isn't part of their creed. The others wield it like a symbol of their office, just like a shinigami, which are, again, psychopomps.Which hardly give a damn about money, and are thus not Touhou shinigamis no matter how you try to twist it to your side.
Yes she is. Alas there's no official shinigami monster/class in D&D, so as the author of the school I get to pick the next closest thing. Which certainly aren't going to be altruistic bird-people that aren't on a boat on their own stat block fluff.QuoteWell thankfully Riverside View doesn't seek to cover all kinds of Shinigami, just the boat ones.Thankfully that doesn't change anything. One kind is specialized in being the guide/ferrymen of the river, have boats, they are shinigamis, and yugoloths aren't.
You can give the discipline to the yugoloth boaters, no problem, whatever, but don't go around calling Komachi and her kind yugoloths. She's a shinigami.
You mean yugoloths. Pathfinder psychopomps most certainly aren't on a boat neither do they have ferries, unless you would be so kind as to provide the exact quote from the pathfinder site.Sure.
Don't care about any other sources really. Because the most popular shinigami mythos out there don't have boats or ferry anything anywhere or care much about money or scythes.Hardly comparable to any classical mythology. I'll just file that with the rest of the nonsense.
Komachi, like other Maeroloths, doesn't have wings of any kind last time I checked.And unlike Maeroloths, doesn't look like a Maeroloths. If appearance is all that matters, wait, it doesn't at all.
Which hardly give a damn about money, and are thus not Touhou shinigamis no matter how you try to twist it to your side.Unless you mention that those do. With all that doesn't fit with the yugoloth, they are thus no more Touhou shinigamis no matter how desperately you try to twist it to your side. The pshychopomp is closer to them than everything else.
Besides you somehow managed to spin Utusho into some kind of super scientist. Yugoloths fit Komachi like a glove compared to that.Very arguable. Again, if you have recommendations to fix that detail the Utsuho discipline, go ahead and share them.
Yes she is. Alas there's no official shinigami monster/class in D&D, so as the author of the school I get to pick the next closest thing. Which certainly aren't going to be altruistic bird-people that aren't on a boat on their own stat block fluff.Except it is far from the next closest thing. They are closer to death angels than 'bird-people' and they actually have a scythe in their stat block. And in the fluff.
This money comes from the spirits of the dead, who pay the shinigami a toll to ferry them across it into Higan. The money for this toll comes about due to the connections they had with others while they were alive. More specifically, the toll is the total sum of the money used by others for one's sake during one's lifetime.You get money from the connections you had in life to people. The amount of the toll is (roughly) what you owe everyone you left behind. So all the dead can pay for the trip. And it's always exactly as much as they have on them.
"A river's width is the same as the breadth of the soul's history. How you lived decides the width of the river."Basically the whole process is a test of character.
I was thinking a big thing could be for the Meiling manoeuvres which is similar to your idea is straight up combos, making it so that the effects are weaker but they stack and can be used 1 after the other. Prehaps with 'Initiation strikes' which could be full round actions and allow you to make several of the schools strikes one after the other. Although that would be awkward with the system of known manoeuvres and readied manoeuvres and would have really strange implications with the dual strike feature from Swordsages.That Mei Ling is the gate keeper of the Scarlet Mansion, so she has to be good at holding her ground. Forcing the opponent to keep away/nearby sounds good.
Meiling in the fighting games is very in your face and pressure filled, so maybe try to emulate that with strikes that force the opponent into doing certain things with saves against them (also gotta have manly poses, Meiling is all about the manly poses).
Your thoughts?
Sure.So the part where they're ferrymen is only ever mentioned in a completely diferent sourcebook on another creature's entry? :psyduck
While similar in shape to the psychopomps who serve Pharasma and ferry souls to their fates upon the planes, reapers care little for mortal souls, reveling in the moment of death and dissolution of the impermanent, regardless of the elaborate bureaucracy that oversees the doomed.
Since you need the word itself. They also explicitly mention everywhere else that they guide the souls through the River of Souls.
Everybody is at everybody else's throat in one way or the other over the lower planes in case you missed the memo.QuoteDon't care about any other sources really. Because the most popular shinigami mythos out there don't have boats or ferry anything anywhere or care much about money or scythes.Hardly comparable to any classical mythology. I'll just file that with the rest of the nonsense.
After all, if a yugoloth can pass as a shinigami, what would be one of their natural enemies, everything goes.
Komachi, like most other "monstrous" Touhou characters, hapened to pick Deceivingly Innocent Form. Which would hide ugly skull face, but not wings (which can be observed in winged monsters like Wiggle and Mystia).QuoteKomachi, like other Maeroloths, doesn't have wings of any kind last time I checked.And unlike Maeroloths, doesn't look like a Maeroloths. If appearance is all that matters, wait, it doesn't at all.
"They(psychopomp) care little for the histories or personalities of the souls that pass them by, concerned only for the efficient and unvaried processing of each spirit to its final unremarkable eternity. Damnation and paradise are the same to them, as are heroes and villains, and no psychopomp cares one jot for great deeds left undone, other fates hanging in the balance, or bribes worth even a world's ransom."QuoteWhich hardly give a damn about money, and are thus not Touhou shinigamis no matter how you try to twist it to your side.Unless you mention that those do. With all that doesn't fit with the yugoloth, they are thus no more Touhou shinigamis no matter how desperately you try to twist it to your side. The pshychopomp is closer to them than everything else.
Did it right after you first posted Divine Flame. We had long discussions, which are still there. I already made my peace with the final result.QuoteBesides you somehow managed to spin Utusho into some kind of super scientist. Yugoloths fit Komachi like a glove compared to that.Very arguable. Again, if you have recommendations to fix that detail the Utsuho discipline, go ahead and share them.
Ironically enough, it says right on Komachi's profile that it isn't her job to judge people.QuoteYes she is. Alas there's no official shinigami monster/class in D&D, so as the author of the school I get to pick the next closest thing. Which certainly aren't going to be altruistic bird-people that aren't on a boat on their own stat block fluff.Except it is far from the next closest thing. They are closer to death angels than 'bird-people' and they actually have a scythe in their stat block. And in the fluff.
As the author you can certainly perverse Touhou as much as you like and make it something else. Make your yugoloth, I don't care. Just call them shinigami here, and not yugoloths, because they aren't yugoloths.
They don't carry scythes, they don't ferry souls, they send nobody to be judged, they don't kick people into the river if they hesitate to pay (they just don't ferry them) and they don't belong to an organization that specifically involves itself with Death and the administration of lifespan and the final resting place of the dead. They do lead people into ambushes on a river if they don't pay generously though; so that makes them pirates and bandits. What a perfect fit.
DMs making their campaign setting will have the freedom of taking your yugoloth monster and call it a shinigami if they want, along with refluffing them entirely.Works both ways. Other DMs are free to make Riverside view the work of the most altruistic angels in existence and Death's Due money going straight to orphanages if they wish. ;)
I would just like to point out that I don't believe it was explicitly stated that Komachi=Yugoloth. All I can see is that Riverside View was started by Yugoloths but that many if not any Outsider can join the discipline's ranks. If I'm wrong and it was, then can't we just say that Komachi can just be among the "other outsiders joining this particular business of theirs" group?Again, Komachi is whatever you want it to be. There's a reason I'll never show an "official" stat block for any character, because I know that would just degenerate into endless discussions. Make her a redeemed Saint. Make her an infiltrated solar in disguise. Make her a pseudonatural half-golem vampire lord.
Because honestly, it doesn't look like the real problem is having Yugoloths be the ones that created this venture/business/discipline, but rather that some are taking it as meaning Komachi herself is a Yugoloth and that this can all be resolved by simply saying Komachi herself probably isn't a Yugoloth, yeah? Maybe? :-\
No, he is being very clear that he means for Komachi to be a Yugoloth and that any who uses this discipline to its fullest is financing the projects of evil outsiders keen on purging the universe of all that is good and pure and collect souls to trade between themselves as a currency or just to expend to oblivion in the construction of magic items or spell components.There are good reasons why Komachi warns people that dying is not a nice thing. :p
From her infosheet (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Komachi_Onozuka)Not exactly. In her original profile:QuoteThis money comes from the spirits of the dead, who pay the shinigami a toll to ferry them across it into Higan. The money for this toll comes about due to the connections they had with others while they were alive. More specifically, the toll is the total sum of the money used by others for one's sake during one's lifetime.You get money from the connections you had in life to people. The amount of the toll is (roughly) what you owe everyone you left behind. So all the dead can pay for the trip. And it's always exactly as much as they have on them.
It's a test of attachment to the world. You can only move on to judgment when you've given up the coins that bind you. Dead children are stuck because they just can't let go.
Sure.So the part where they're ferrymen is only ever mentioned in a completely diferent sourcebook on another creature's entry? :psyduck
While similar in shape to the psychopomps who serve Pharasma and ferry souls to their fates upon the planes, reapers care little for mortal souls, reveling in the moment of death and dissolution of the impermanent, regardless of the elaborate bureaucracy that oversees the doomed.
Since you need the word itself. They also explicitly mention everywhere else that they guide the souls through the River of Souls.
Everybody is at everybody else's throat in one way or the other over the lower planes in case you missed the memo.QuoteDon't care about any other sources really. Because the most popular shinigami mythos out there don't have boats or ferry anything anywhere or care much about money or scythes.Hardly comparable to any classical mythology. I'll just file that with the rest of the nonsense.
After all, if a yugoloth can pass as a shinigami, what would be one of their natural enemies, everything goes.
Komachi, like most other "monstrous" Touhou characters, hapened to pick Deceivingly Innocent Form. Which would hide ugly skull face, but not wings (which can be observed in winged monsters like Wiggle and Mystia).QuoteKomachi, like other Maeroloths, doesn't have wings of any kind last time I checked.And unlike Maeroloths, doesn't look like a Maeroloths. If appearance is all that matters, wait, it doesn't at all.
Ironically enough, it says right on Komachi's profile that it isn't her job to judge people.QuoteYes she is. Alas there's no official shinigami monster/class in D&D, so as the author of the school I get to pick the next closest thing. Which certainly aren't going to be altruistic bird-people that aren't on a boat on their own stat block fluff.Except it is far from the next closest thing. They are closer to death angels than 'bird-people' and they actually have a scythe in their stat block. And in the fluff.
As the author you can certainly perverse Touhou as much as you like and make it something else. Make your yugoloth, I don't care. Just call them shinigami here, and not yugoloths, because they aren't yugoloths.
They don't carry scythes, they don't ferry souls, they send nobody to be judged, they don't kick people into the river if they hesitate to pay (they just don't ferry them) and they don't belong to an organization that specifically involves itself with Death and the administration of lifespan and the final resting place of the dead. They do lead people into ambushes on a river if they don't pay generously though; so that makes them pirates and bandits. What a perfect fit.
Anyway, both yugoloths and Komachi will end up kicking people into the river for (lack of) money. Psychopomps would never willingly throw dead people to the monsters living in the river, and most certainly not for money issues.
I would just like to point out that I don't believe it was explicitly stated that Komachi=Yugoloth. All I can see is that Riverside View was started by Yugoloths but that many if not any Outsider can join the discipline's ranks. If I'm wrong and it was, then can't we just say that Komachi can just be among the "other outsiders joining this particular business of theirs" group?Again, Komachi is whatever you want it to be. There's a reason I'll never show an "official" stat block for any character, because I know that would just degenerate into endless discussions. Make her a redeemed Saint. Make her an infiltrated solar in disguise. Make her a pseudonatural half-golem vampire lord.
Because honestly, it doesn't look like the real problem is having Yugoloths be the ones that created this venture/business/discipline, but rather that some are taking it as meaning Komachi herself is a Yugoloth and that this can all be resolved by simply saying Komachi herself probably isn't a Yugoloth, yeah? Maybe? :-\
But I gonna put something in the base fluff that fits in your average D&D setting, and monster-that-kicks-people-in-the-river-because-of-money-issues sounds the best fit to me out there.
From her infosheet (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Komachi_Onozuka)Not exactly. In her original profile:QuoteThis money comes from the spirits of the dead, who pay the shinigami a toll to ferry them across it into Higan. The money for this toll comes about due to the connections they had with others while they were alive. More specifically, the toll is the total sum of the money used by others for one's sake during one's lifetime.You get money from the connections you had in life to people. The amount of the toll is (roughly) what you owe everyone you left behind. So all the dead can pay for the trip. And it's always exactly as much as they have on them.
It's a test of attachment to the world. You can only move on to judgment when you've given up the coins that bind you. Dead children are stuck because they just can't let go.
This requires that Komachi have eaten someone. Believable for the youkai? Totally. Ferryman of the Dead? Eh.At least a couple of her spellcards consist of her noming the spirits of the dead. :p
FFS, it's not 'lack of money'. It's for not paying money that exists just for this journey. If you're too attached to life to move on, go deal with the fishies for a while. The whole of buddhist cosmology means you'll get dragged out eventually.Buddhist cosmology is next door. Komachi aknowledges that in her line of work, spirits can be permanently destroyed.
Ferryng the dead is what makes them money, so not mutually exclusive.QuoteI would just like to point out that I don't believe it was explicitly stated that Komachi=Yugoloth. All I can see is that Riverside View was started by Yugoloths but that many if not any Outsider can join the discipline's ranks. If I'm wrong and it was, then can't we just say that Komachi can just be among the "other outsiders joining this particular business of theirs" group?Again, Komachi is whatever you want it to be. There's a reason I'll never show an "official" stat block for any character, because I know that would just degenerate into endless discussions. Make her a redeemed Saint. Make her an infiltrated solar in disguise. Make her a pseudonatural half-golem vampire lord.
Because honestly, it doesn't look like the real problem is having Yugoloths be the ones that created this venture/business/discipline, but rather that some are taking it as meaning Komachi herself is a Yugoloth and that this can all be resolved by simply saying Komachi herself probably isn't a Yugoloth, yeah? Maybe? :-\
But I gonna put something in the base fluff that fits in your average D&D setting, and monster-that-kicks-people-in-the-river-because-of-money-issues sounds the best fit to me out there.
Piratical embodiments of evil totally fit more than anything actually involved with the role and purpose of shinigami. Money clearly defines everything about them--not killing things that won't otherwise die, not ferrying the dead, and not making sure the cycle of reincarnation is working.
If someone has done too much evil, they might not cross.Yuyuko is dead, but she still spends money.
You're judged based on spiritual currency.
You are not judged based on material wealth.
This has gotten beyond ridiculous. You keep insisting that 'evil mercenary' is a perfect fit, because they have to pay. Pay what? Oh, money that exists only when you die, and exists simply to... err... pay Komachi? Oh, that's totally evil. Wanting something that's otherwise useless is of course evil. :eh
Speaking of which, my boss said there are too few reincarnations lately.
When you're not busy, why don't you go look and fix up some appropriate ghosts for me?
What? It's okay if they're only shells, since it's hard for me if there are more humans around here.
The present Hell became a place where oni are well disciplined
and injustices happen only rarely.
The oni of Old Hell were in cahoots with the sinners,
such that there were even souls who didn't want to leave hell.
You guys should, rather than a Hell like that,
try to look for work at the new Hell. How's that sound?
This requires that Komachi have eaten someone. Believable for the youkai? Totally. Ferryman of the Dead? Eh.At least a couple of her spellcards consist of her noming the spirits of the dead. :p
FFS, it's not 'lack of money'. It's for not paying money that exists just for this journey. If you're too attached to life to move on, go deal with the fishies for a while. The whole of buddhist cosmology means you'll get dragged out eventually.Buddhist cosmology is next door. Komachi aknowledges that in her line of work, spirits can be permanently destroyed.
Ferryng the dead is what makes them money, so not mutually exclusive.QuoteI would just like to point out that I don't believe it was explicitly stated that Komachi=Yugoloth. All I can see is that Riverside View was started by Yugoloths but that many if not any Outsider can join the discipline's ranks. If I'm wrong and it was, then can't we just say that Komachi can just be among the "other outsiders joining this particular business of theirs" group?Again, Komachi is whatever you want it to be. There's a reason I'll never show an "official" stat block for any character, because I know that would just degenerate into endless discussions. Make her a redeemed Saint. Make her an infiltrated solar in disguise. Make her a pseudonatural half-golem vampire lord.
Because honestly, it doesn't look like the real problem is having Yugoloths be the ones that created this venture/business/discipline, but rather that some are taking it as meaning Komachi herself is a Yugoloth and that this can all be resolved by simply saying Komachi herself probably isn't a Yugoloth, yeah? Maybe? :-\
But I gonna put something in the base fluff that fits in your average D&D setting, and monster-that-kicks-people-in-the-river-because-of-money-issues sounds the best fit to me out there.
Piratical embodiments of evil totally fit more than anything actually involved with the role and purpose of shinigami. Money clearly defines everything about them--not killing things that won't otherwise die, not ferrying the dead, and not making sure the cycle of reincarnation is working.
Komachi however indeed lets cheeky celestials walk away alive, and indeed uses excess spirits as bombs, thus screwing over the cycle. As long as the excess spirits aren't piling up in such a way they start mass-possessing flowers, she really doesn't care much.
If someone has done too much evil, they might not cross.Yuyuko is dead, but she still spends money.
You're judged based on spiritual currency.
You are not judged based on material wealth.
This has gotten beyond ridiculous. You keep insisting that 'evil mercenary' is a perfect fit, because they have to pay. Pay what? Oh, money that exists only when you die, and exists simply to... err... pay Komachi? Oh, that's totally evil. Wanting something that's otherwise useless is of course evil. :eh
Plus:Quote from: Komachi defeating YuyukoSpeaking of which, my boss said there are too few reincarnations lately.
When you're not busy, why don't you go look and fix up some appropriate ghosts for me?
What? It's okay if they're only shells, since it's hard for me if there are more humans around here.Quote from: Komachi beating UtushoThe present Hell became a place where oni are well disciplined
and injustices happen only rarely.
The oni of Old Hell were in cahoots with the sinners,
such that there were even souls who didn't want to leave hell.
You guys should, rather than a Hell like that,
try to look for work at the new Hell. How's that sound?
So Komachi aknowledges that:
-She works in hell.
-There are multiple philosophies of dealing with the dead spirits, and she's only really working in one of them.
-She's seeking to rig the system to favor her, human souls be literally damned.
Everybody is at everybody else's throat in one way or the other over the lower planes in case you missed the memo.Irrelevant. You are turning what would be the natural enemies of the shinigami into the shinigami.
Komachi, like most other "monstrous" Touhou characters, hapened to pick Deceivingly Innocent Form. Which would hide ugly skull face, but not wings (which can be observed in winged monsters like Wiggle and Mystia).Not necessarily.
That's the very opposite of a touhou Shinigami ferrywoman, that very much care about who they're carrying, if they have unfinished business and other fates linked to them.Yugoloths don't fit that profile either. They just want the money and get rid of you. Their emotion for other beings are also very limited past the desire to see others suffer.
Komachi's combat style is all about money and using spirits as delayed bombs, both things anathema to psychopomps, but quite nicely fit yugoloth mentality.Maeroloths' take payments but their combat style doesn't involve money or exploding spirits either, nor do they involve scythes. Their profile says they fight like pirates by sending you in ambushes, and, oh, they bite. Encouraging undeath isn't very shinigami-like either, since their job is to send souls to their afterlife upon death and your dudes got Animate Dead as a SLA. Your exploding spirits actually are in the favor of psychopomps; spirits during fights are not actually souls (similar to the spirits in Ten Desires) and the evil/malignant spirits of touhou are described as special ghosts that are the result of what happens when a youkai takes over those waiting to cross the river before a shinigami gets them across. So that means that by exploding them around she is probably doing shinigami work by releasing them.
Ironically enough, it says right on Komachi's profile that it isn't her job to judge people.So what? Where is the irony? Neither do the psychopomps themselves. Pharasma, the divine figure of Death, Fate, Prophesy and Rebirth, (which fits with the principle of another being that isn't the shinigami, the Yama in Touhou's case; Shikieiki, is another great fit) is the one doing the judging.
Anyway, both yugoloths and Komachi will end up kicking people into the river for (lack of) money. Psychopomps would never willingly throw dead people to the monsters living in the river, and most certainly not for money issues.No, the Maeroloths don't do that. It is against their nature. They take their payment, then they do their job. If someone paid more to get you in a pirate ambush, tough luck. The Maeroloths respect their contract by carrying you across the river, it just unfortunately happens that they have pirate buddies on that river waiting for you.
Works both ways. Other DMs are free to make Riverside view the work of the most altruistic angels in existence and Death's Due money going straight to orphanages if they wish. ;)Yes but I thought you wanted to portray Touhou in this Touhou homebrew section. If you call their shinigami something else than a shinigami, it isn't quite about Touhou but becomes something about fiend pirates that somehow developed a martial discipline dealing with Death themes. It is made to be used in Dnd so DM adaptation can be made from the Touhou stuff. Otherwise, why even bother making the fluff based on Touhou if you're not gonna use Touhou.
if someone has done too much evil during their lifetime, they may even not be able to cross the river.That quote doesn't actually suggests that the shinigami doesn't allow them to cross the river. It suggests that particularly wicked people are simply unable to do it for some reason. Perhaps because they get turned into evil spirits before a shinigami gets to guide them through the river.
Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).I strongly doubt that. We've seen a LOT of kappas and they all appear human-like, and they are all girls. Perhaps some of those are male, but for some reason they all appear as girls. To us, anyway.
Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Well, youkai/demons taking/having a human form is a normal thing outside of Touhou.
Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Well, youkai/demons taking/having a human form is a normal thing outside of Touhou.
Not to the same extent, though.
And then we get Yukari... :lmao
Well in Kaidan stuff, most of the ones with form(that is, more than just a noise or shape in the dark), can take human form, though it's not that hard to shock them back to their true form. Nowhere as many cute young girls though. That's for sure.Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Well, youkai/demons taking/having a human form is a normal thing outside of Touhou.
Not to the same extent, though.
And then we get Yukari... :lmao
Well in Kaidan stuff, most of the ones with form(that is, more than just a noise or shape in the dark), can take human form, though it's not that hard to shock them back to their true form. Nowhere as many cute young girls though. That's for sure.Youkai from Touhou have human forms only when they are stronger than others of their kind. And male youkai exists too, but ZUN don't want to show any of them... (at least male humans do exist).
Well, youkai/demons taking/having a human form is a normal thing outside of Touhou.
Not to the same extent, though.
And then we get Yukari... :lmao
Japanese ghost stories. Most youkai originate in those. It seems the nearly human youkai make the best ghost stories.
A lot of them don't really have much more existence than a noise or bump in the night though. I mean just look at the Sunekosuri (http://www.obakemono.com/obake/sunekosuri/).
Looking it up further, it seems you feel a dog rubbing your legs but you don't see one. It's just an invisible, overly friendly dog.Japanese ghost stories. Most youkai originate in those. It seems the nearly human youkai make the best ghost stories.
A lot of them don't really have much more existence than a noise or bump in the night though. I mean just look at the Sunekosuri (http://www.obakemono.com/obake/sunekosuri/).
Maybe if it actually did something besides run between their legs.......That's just a dog...
I've got a question. Is there any explanation for determining which disciplines affect incorporeal/ethereal targets fully and which ones only have a 50% chance to affect them? Border of Life, Plain History, and Ancient Temple can fully affect them, while Crystalized Silver and Lunatic Princess have 50% effect chance and Doll Judgement doesn't mention whether it affects them or not. Septette for the Dead doesn't even mention if its maneuvers are supernatural, that I can see, nor if they affect incorporeal/ethereal.Clarified that Doll Judgment has 50% chance of affecting incorporeal/ethereal (it was my first ToBhou school and it shows). Sepette for the Dead will be taken care of later.
Speaking of Forbidden Schools, since you went ahead and got Chinese Star done, I've been working on its Forbidden School, placeholder name Sky Ruin, aka Giant Catish+UFO nun with giant angry cloud. Focuses on overwhelming raw power and getting bigger.
Suika was actually one of the first characters that inspired me to start this whole thing, but ended up being delayed again and again. However it would not be "devas of the mountain", but DRUNKEN DEMON drink until everybody drops!. Yuugi would be her forbidden school (fight with alchool in hand while resisting to drink it!) :P
Don't really care much about Tenshi, can't even remember who Iku is, but don't let that stop you from tackling those.
And since I'm at it, in the other day I made a draft for yet another school, Princess Union-Never Fight Alone! Aka a school for leading mobs/units. Atracting expendable mooks, cavalry charges, shield walls, literal battlefield manipulation. What do you mean Yggdra isn't even a Touhou character? She's a flat-chested girl from a fantasy land where combats are resolved with a spellcard system! That's good enough for me! :p
I can totally do the stage magician/fuck with the minds of your opponents with impossible tricks angle :D. Maybe do the 'fuck time it's go time' some other time.
edit: will have to be pretty ranged/melee friendly too because of the whole aspect of throwing the knives.
She would be a neat one to have a discipline for, flowers and nature and master sparks (oh my). Would have to get pretty imaginative to fill in the minimum number of cards for a school though...Making up names isn't difficult. Splitting names to fill up some spots can be done but ideally a discipline would have more than 40% of its content be actual spellcards. I had thought that in Yuuka's case we could cheat and tweak 'Phantastic Spring Flower' and multiply it by four by having one for every season but the number was still pretty low so sticking to the real thing felt like the option with the highest integrity.
... also her parasol is actually a flower. @_@
Not any flower. A flower that never withers. Thus some kind of companion/special item.
Speaking of which, I'm planning to make Marisa's ability tostealcopy spellcards integrated into her class. She can spend money to write down in books maneuvers she saw in action, then ready some of them herself each day, later on even give them extras a few times per day as well (yay slowly working on 2-3 tobhou schools at the same time, not exactly efficient, but inspiration shifts every day).
EDIT:Altough I should point out that Patchoulli never bothered to properly register her lazors. It was Marisa that patented it as Nondirectional laser tm. :p
That Marisa bit sounds like metamagicing maneuvers to me.Metamagic involves leveled slots. Marisa class has no leveled maneuver slots.
She's a youkai with power over flowers. Is it so surprising she could have one that doesn't wilt?
...You do notice that there's several abilities over there that are repeated among diferent characters, right? :eh
I do my tobhou schools based on character spellcards. And even when I gathered around every last official namedIf we split Flower Sign "Reflowering of the Gensokyo" in two spellcards don't make more than 20% of the current list. I don't mind using maneuvers from that other game even though this is about touhou. There seems to be about 3 potential maneuvers in there.IchirinYuuka spellcard, it still wasn't even enough to make a Forbidden school on her own, let alone a full regular school.
Need 36 at least, then leftovers for the feats and extras.Looks like its going to be a Forbidden School unless there's a bunch more made up. Either way I'm not interested.
Unique power.
Not really important but I suppose abilities can indeed be shared. ie: Two kappas probably have the ability to manipulate water so the ability likely isn't exclusive to Nitori. Yep, it's a racial power but if powers can be unique to a race, and not an individual, then it is safe to assume that most powers aren't unique either nor limited to one given individual. Besides, one of the reasons these maneuvers are being done is to make all these abilities accessible to your average martial adept.
Who do you think I am? My very first tobhou school, has Puppeteer Theater, and three levels of Goliath Doll, not to mention several ones that are based on the exact same touhou ability, just with diferent translations. Crystallized Silver's tactical feat that you're so fond of is 66% based in a fighting game with 0% connections to Touhou. Seihou Kioh meanwhile is 100% Zun art, 12,5% Touhou characters, and 120% Yuuka asskicking. (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif)QuoteI do my tobhou schools based on character spellcards. And even when I gathered around every last official namedIf we split Flower Sign "Reflowering of the Gensokyo" in two spellcards don't make more than 20% of the current list. I don't mind using maneuvers from that other game even though this is about touhou. There seems to be about 3 potential maneuvers in there.IchirinYuuka spellcard, it still wasn't even enough to make a Forbidden school on her own, let alone a full regular school.
Only 15% of those are actually spellcards, so I guess you won't be doing this one.
A flower that never withers.We could say the exact same thing about half or more of the Touhou abilities out there. Didn't stop either of us from turning them into actual abilities, did it? (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-allears.gif)
I actually don't think that the parasol is a flower. It is possible but I think she was just pulling Tewi's leg. Just another random lie to tease people.
Or just making a metaphor.
Unique power.
Not really important but I suppose abilities can indeed be shared. ie: Two kappas probably have the ability to manipulate water so the ability likely isn't exclusive to Nitori. Yep, it's a racial power but if powers can be unique to a race, and not an individual, then it is safe to assume that most powers aren't unique either nor limited to one given individual. Besides, one of the reasons these maneuvers are being done is to make all these abilities accessible to your average martial adept.
To a limited extent at times. For instance, Mokou and Kaguya* (getting the real Hourai Elixir at level one on a character with only a level in Aristocrat would be a pretty fun thing to do. :O)
*Everyone in Imperishable Night, really. They're basically all kind of broken... >_>;
Seihou Marisa has wings. Explain that one. XD
And that sounds like an interesting thing for Eirin. Does it use Craft (Alchemy)?
And that sounds like an interesting thing for Eirin. Does it use Craft (Alchemy)?
Heal. She's a space nurse after all. :p
Who do you think I am?I'm not giving any personal opinion. Just dishing back stuff you say about yourself back at you. If you want to contradict yourself its you own business but it makes keeping track of what you approve and do not approve difficult. It seemed to be an issue when you first said that since it justified why you denied Ichirin a discipline all her own. Or whichever reason you had for saying that.
Crystallized Silver's tactical feat that you're so fond of is 66% based in a fighting game with 0% connections to Touhou.I don't like that feat at all. Waiting for the first opportunity to retrain it. I realized at our very first battle that I wouldn't be using it much.
Seihou Kioh meanwhile is 100% Zun art, 12,5% Touhou characters, and 120% Yuuka asskicking.As said, I don't mind using Seihou Kioh so I don't see why you act as if I objected to it. It's Zun, yes, but it isn't Touhou.
We could say the exact same thing about half or more of the Touhou abilities out there. Didn't stop either of us from turning them into actual abilities, did it?Half or more? Now you're the one pulling my leg. I don't recall adhering to that practice but it is possible. Doesn't change that it is a very possible lie from a compulsive liar. The database as far as I've seen do not state that it is a flower, only referring to it as a umbrella or parasol. The picture makes its design look like a flower from the top but not from under, so maybe it is one and maybe it isn't.
That would imply surgery. Eirin's abilities are specifically drugs.Maybe Craft (Poison)? She's a super poison expert iirc. Possibly better than even Medicine.
QuoteThat would imply surgery. Eirin's abilities are specifically drugs.Maybe Craft (Poison)? She's a super poison expert iirc. Possibly better than even Medicine.
Yeah but I recall it being stated that they used poison for more than poisoning, even making remedies. Even interpreting that your whole body is made of poison and poison is used to control how the body acts. I think it was the conversation between Tewi and Medicine.
I probably mixed up the text of Medicine with other characters. But indeed she uses more than just poison, so Heal would probably be the better skill.
And that sounds like an interesting thing for Eirin. Does it use Craft (Alchemy)?
Heal. She's a space nurse after all. :p
That would imply surgery. Eirin's abilities are specifically drugs. :p
It's removing the concept of death from an entity using drugs and powers over eternity. Then there's the drugs that insure a sweet dream. And using Heal to poison people seems... kind of ridiculous. Plus basically all the given uses for the skill is basic first aid. >_>;The line between a medicine and hallucinogenic is pretty thin. The diference between a medicine and a poison is often just how much you give to the other person.
Yuuka is one of the most popular characters out there. Plenty of material around for inspiration, including a lack of other characters doing similar stuff. Ichirin... Not so much. So basically same reason because you denied Miko a discipline all her own. We didn't notice there were other spellcards around the corner, thus bundled it all up with other characters and went ahead with it.QuoteWho do you think I am?I'm not giving any personal opinion. Just dishing back stuff you say about yourself back at you. If you want to contradict yourself its you own business but it makes keeping track of what you approve and do not approve difficult. It seemed to be an issue when you first said that since it justified why you denied Ichirin a discipline all her own. Or whichever reason you had for saying that.
Meh, more than one person I spoke with claims that Touhou is nothing more than silly girls playing fireworks with fancy names against each other, and that nobody could actually ever get hurt.QuoteWe could say the exact same thing about half or more of the Touhou abilities out there. Didn't stop either of us from turning them into actual abilities, did it?Half or more? Now you're the one pulling my leg.
And that sounds like an interesting thing for Eirin. Does it use Craft (Alchemy)?
Heal. She's a space nurse after all. :p
That would imply surgery. Eirin's abilities are specifically drugs. :p
Wait a second, you can use the Heal skill to perform surgery in D&D now? Where? Last time I readed it, only allowed for first aid, treating poisons and diseases, and long-term care (aka nursing).
Other touhou characters could be called alchemists of sorts (Marisa sure beats Eirin when it comes to brewing explosive stuff). Only the lunarian nurse can be claimed to have healing training.
Yuuka is one of the most popular characters out there. Plenty of material around for inspiration, including a lack of other characters doing similar stuff. Ichirin... Not so much.Ichirin is growing. Three games with spellcards in them, including a fighter game with a lot of material to work with. Entries and appearances in print works. And Unzan.
So basically same reason because you denied Miko a discipline all her own. We didn't notice there were other spellcards around the corner, thus bundled it all up with other characters and went ahead with it.You maybe missed it it when I told you last time, but I'm currently doing a total rework of Desire Drive. Miko is indeed getting her own discipline and so is Futo, though Futo could share hers with Seiga (and Yoshika) as two different paths under the same school.
Meh, more than one person I spoke with claims that Touhou is nothing more than silly girls playing fireworks with fancy names against each other, and that nobody could actually ever get hurt.How is that related to interpreting if a character, that is a compulsive liar, is telling a lie or not?
Even if those were to be finished today, I would still have over a year to do the same with Ichirin, by your own standards, since you posted Desire Drive in 2012, and we're already in 2014. (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif)QuoteSo basically same reason because you denied Miko a discipline all her own. We didn't notice there were other spellcards around the corner, thus bundled it all up with other characters and went ahead with it.You maybe missed it it when I told you last time, but I'm currently doing a total rework of Desire Drive. Miko is indeed getting her own discipline and so is Futo, though Futo could share hers with Seiga (and Yoshika) as two different paths under the same school.
No, it's Not Cirno :p
Bad as in...bad? Or bad as in actually bad? -_-'
On the other side of things, some one else in the party has got a genderbent Mokou based around Charisma as well and all about peace & harmony. Effectively my polar opposite. It's a fire & ice kind of thing -_-'
The next three hundred years I spent harboring a grudge against this world, and was able to preserve the faintest sense of identity by immediately dispatching anything that crossed my path, youkai or otherwise.
2: A devil's contract is absolute, thus one can never betray it.
demon1
ˈdiːmən/
noun
noun: demon; plural noun: demons
1.
an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
This is not the first made-from-scratch Touhou tabletop RPG I've seen around the net tough. I remember finding another a couple years ago or so.I can't find it myself, but there is mention by the person who made this one having a different, older system called Youyoumu.
What informs my opinions on this subject is Zun's work. And Zun clearly states that Remilia and Suika are not the same kind of being.
I don''t understand the wording for how that Special works at all.......
Oh so that is a template you wrote to put onto a PHB race that can not stack with other templates that change creature Type?
Templates that add Sub-types tho are still fine with it, yeah?
Ah okay. The new version makes sense now. :)If Vampire then is your race, what is your Type?
Because otherwise it looks like your Type is still Humanoid despite being a Vampire. Which is fine and all, but it should mention what happens to your Type as a Vampire. (Plus for when something like "Eating, Breathing, Sleeping, ect" stuff comes up)
Duh, nevermind. Vampire Base says you're Humanoid even as a Vampire.
Although I wasn't looking at trying to see this thing as Undead type (cause thats OP :P), do you still need to Eat (not blood) and Breath and Sleep?
Also, having to take a specific class that burns levels and makes you undead to use a school properly bothers me.Septette for the Dead was developed taking in account you would have to burn levels to fully unlock the blood charges potential. And I don't feel like remaking it from scratch.
It goes without saying that she is weak against sunlight, can't cross flowing water, hates garlic, and despises sardine heads. Crosses have no effect on her. It puzzles her to hear that her kind are supposed to be weak against such a thing.
Turning into a bat, yes. Coffin? No. I have seen nothing to suggest that, if she has one, it's for any reason other than 'oh, hey, stylish'.Silly Raineh, where do you think Remilia rests during the day? (http://www.mangareader.net/touhou-sangetsusei-oriental-sacred-place/15/11)
Also seen nothing to suggest vampires are undead in Touhou, more to the point. And 'Servants' don't require 'Vampire' when you own a mansion. And let's see... Patchouli's a friend, Meiling is a mystery, and Sakuya isn't mind controlled. >_>She sleeps in a coffin. Meaning she doesn't need to breathe. And she doesn't age nor gets sick, and clearly has darkvision.
Remilia still takes extra damage from light-based attacks that deal extra damage against undead. Your twilight wannabe means Silent Sinner in Blue ended with Remilia taking over the moon because the lunarian sister's sun channeling meant a measly extra 1d6 of damage at best.Quote from: Imperishable Night ManualIt goes without saying that she is weak against sunlight, can't cross flowing water, hates garlic, and despises sardine heads. Crosses have no effect on her. It puzzles her to hear that her kind are supposed to be weak against such a thing.
Yup, sardine heads. Not sure where Patchouli decided to have a setsubun festival (one of the manga? Some article somewhere? So many places to look...), but roasted soybeans too.
Besides, it's not like this could be less accurate than the base vampire class. Sunlight isn't instant death, there's no indication either of them are undead since vampires are a type of youkai, coffins are irrelevant, they can break and enter (Eientei), Remilia and Flandre have a religious imagery obsession, both are easily hurt (so no DR) but heal it well enough, and there's no mention of mind control.
So yes, it misses turning into a bat; but it doesn't include a lot of things that Touhou vampires don't.Au contraire, you cannot prove that Remilia cannot do a specific thing. She may've just not used it yet, like she has new tricks up her sleeve in every new game she shows up. But I can prove that Remilia can do things your twilight wannabe cannot. :smirk
As for the balance comment: one level, undead immunities, much much better buffing capabilities, or you can take two levels and, if you're well fed, get all of the same, monster summoning, dominate, army creation, negative levels, and the ability to count as your actual level for maneuver purposes. That is: either the balance comment is invalid, or the vampire class needs editing as it gives you far more bonuses and you get to keep full maneuver access. :ehEerr, where you're getting the "count as your actual level for maneuver purposes" on the vampire side? As for the rest, nothing you couldn't pick with a couple well chosen levels of something else, in particular when you're getting half a level for free.
EDIT: Oh, wait, PMiSS has the soybean comment. And more sardine heads. It also mentions summoning legions of devils, but you've gotten that part in the martial school anyway.Her closest servants say beans just annoy her. (http://www.mangareader.net/touhou-sangetsusei-strange-and-bright-nature-deity/1/19)
Turning into a bat, yes. Coffin? No. I have seen nothing to suggest that, if she has one, it's for any reason other than 'oh, hey, stylish'.Silly Raineh, where do you think Remilia rests during the day? (http://www.mangareader.net/touhou-sangetsusei-oriental-sacred-place/15/11)
Also seen nothing to suggest vampires are undead in Touhou, more to the point. And 'Servants' don't require 'Vampire' when you own a mansion. And let's see... Patchouli's a friend, Meiling is a mystery, and Sakuya isn't mind controlled. >_>She sleeps in a coffin. Meaning she doesn't need to breathe. And she doesn't age nor gets sick, and clearly has darkvision.
Also, she has an army of fairies doing chores for her. Fairies don't do maid work out of their own will. And Remilia can't threaten them with death, so mind control.
The Scarlet Devil Mansion's policy regarding maids is quantity over quality, and they are somehow able to accomodate all of the fairy maids in their employ.
She is the only human maid among them, and as the head maid she gives orders to the fairy maids.
The fairy maids are mostly useless.
They are sufficiently occupied in cleaning their own uniforms and making their own food (*3).
About the only thing worth saying about these maids is that they basically have no pay or vacation, but they receive food and tea, and can do whatever else they please.
They are free to leave and regain their posts, as well.
The fairy maids' lives are comparatively comfortable, and if they can come to enjoy their masters' occasional impossible requests, almost none choose to run away.
In contrast, the chief maid's job is severe.
As her duties include cleaning the labyrinthine interior of the mansion, taking care of its selfish master, managing the useless maids, going out to buy supplies in the human village and making pointlessly gorgeous meals, she has no time to rest.
It would be impossible to do all this work alone without being able to stop time.
Remilia still takes extra damage from light-based attacks that deal extra damage against undead. Your twilight wannabe means Silent Sinner in Blue ended with Remilia taking over the moon because the lunarian sister's sun channeling meant a measly extra 1d6 of damage at best.Quote from: Imperishable Night ManualIt goes without saying that she is weak against sunlight, can't cross flowing water, hates garlic, and despises sardine heads. Crosses have no effect on her. It puzzles her to hear that her kind are supposed to be weak against such a thing.
Yup, sardine heads. Not sure where Patchouli decided to have a setsubun festival (one of the manga? Some article somewhere? So many places to look...), but roasted soybeans too.
Besides, it's not like this could be less accurate than the base vampire class. Sunlight isn't instant death, there's no indication either of them are undead since vampires are a type of youkai, coffins are irrelevant, they can break and enter (Eientei), Remilia and Flandre have a religious imagery obsession, both are easily hurt (so no DR) but heal it well enough, and there's no mention of mind control.
Another bit of trivia, on the DR explanation of the DMG it says that it can be described as quick healing of wounds and uses the vampire as example. Even tough vampires have natural fast healing, but it's still a valid way of describing it.
Meanwhile sunlight isn't instant death for regular vampires either. They're left staggered for the first round, but can still try to escape.
But of course Remilia's actually a vampire lord, so she can actually tank some sunlight (and other vampire weaknsses). It still supresses her supernatural stance that grants her wings tough.
So yes, it misses turning into a bat; but it doesn't include a lot of things that Touhou vampires don't.Au contraire, you cannot prove that Remilia cannot do a specific thing. She may've just not used it yet, like she has new tricks up her sleeve in every new game she shows up. But I can prove that Remilia can do things your twilight wannabe cannot. :smirk
As for the balance comment: one level, undead immunities, much much better buffing capabilities, or you can take two levels and, if you're well fed, get all of the same, monster summoning, dominate, army creation, negative levels, and the ability to count as your actual level for maneuver purposes. That is: either the balance comment is invalid, or the vampire class needs editing as it gives you far more bonuses and you get to keep full maneuver access. :ehEerr, where you're getting the "count as your actual level for maneuver purposes" on the vampire side? As for the rest, nothing you couldn't pick with a couple well chosen levels of something else, in particular when you're getting half a level for free.
[/quote]EDIT: Oh, wait, PMiSS has the soybean comment. And more sardine heads. It also mentions summoning legions of devils, but you've gotten that part in the martial school anyway.Her closest servants say beans just annoy her. (http://www.mangareader.net/touhou-sangetsusei-strange-and-bright-nature-deity/1/19)
Of the newer youkai that have emerged only within the last few centuries, vampires are among the strongest of them, strong enough to take part in the power-balance of Gensokyo (*1) by now.
*Youkai have longer lifespans than humans.
*Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away.
Ah, yes, sorry. Shrine maiden is what I meant.Pretty well I would say. Warblade and crusader are both quite strong classes that can chew right trough most prepared adventures. The classes here will probaly have somewhat more versatility, but Crusader and Warblades have both more HP, full Bab, and can recover their maneuvers on the fly while barely slowing down their attacks. They also get more martial schools to pick from, and their secondary abilities aren't anything to sneeze at either (cough delayed damage pool cough).
I was mostly asking on how balanced they are with other martial adepts. Of course this may change depending on the level of optimization, but as an average, how do they compare?
This question Oslecamo applies to all your homebrew material. In fact I am curious about your take on the power level the homebrewers in Minmax aim in general. Hell if Strativarius, Garyll or Sirpercival (or anyone I am forgeting) happen to see this question, I wouldn't mind hearing their opinion also.Can't really speak for the others, but I aim at a higher power level than average D&D (notice that ToB is also higher power than average). I however take special care in preventing infinite loops and OP combos. I love immunity-piercing abilities, because players should never be told "your special attack auto-fails and the enemy didn't even had to spend an action, sucks to be you", something for which I've been both criticized and praised.
Also that's not an eagle following Kasen. It's a foul demonic familar that's been known to kidnap shrine maidens. An actual eagle would be much smaller for starters.You are correct that isn't really a normal eagle. It is a dapeng (or just peng). Giant bird of Chinese mythology. It is to the Chinese pretty much what the Roc is to the Arabs.
Comparing the Immortal Smoke maneuvers to how Mokou actually plays in ULiL is... frighteningly accurate. :lmao
Ups, fixed. Glad somebody noticed that after 2 years.
Also something I missed:Comparing the Immortal Smoke maneuvers to how Mokou actually plays in ULiL is... frighteningly accurate. :lmao
(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab332/Crawlscreens/DoD/Fizzy.png)
And people said I was portraying Mokou too negatively. :p
Really weird question, and not sure where to put it other than here: None of the classes seem to have access to any form of healing at level 1, where in my experience, it's actually needed (since it's before you can just run around with a fistful of lesser vigor wands). Is that intentional?
Just asking because I was considering trying a pure Touhou Battle Grimoire setting (as in, these are the only classes) for the kicks, and quickly realized that, well, low level healing seems to either be the Fortune Scale at level 2, the Shrine Maiden using her 2/3's cleric at level 2, or someone using Devoted Spirit in their second "School known" slot, which, admittedly, isn't exactly a bad way to go about it, but still seems somewhat odd to rely on.
Hey folks, just visiting right now, but have a question to pose. Looking around for material for a Mahou Shojo game I'm helping out with and the Grimoire was among the first I thought of, but I have an opinion to ask.
Do you think the PCs should be allowed the Forbidden Schools? I'm not sure I can justify it to the gm, I mean Great Power with High Price is something you find in mahou shojo, but I don't often find it used by the main characters. Normally it ends up being a supporting character who can't typically match up to the stars.
I can't guarantee that the players will even consider the forbidden schools, but I'd rather have a prepared answer for it, should it come up.
Well going off the typical magical girl combat time formula
You will have a maybe 2 or 3 battles...with a day or more of downtime before the next volley hits. Until things hit the serious end of the scale when you have to go up against an Army, Midboss, Endboss, and True Endboss all after the other with very little spacing. The meditate time would certainly be something seemingly easy in the beginning, but you're going to be overwhelmed if you focus on it. Unless they get a baddie using their Base school with no forbidden maneuvers, but I think it'd be more likely to find it the other way around.
The forbidden cost is low early on, sure--only one or two per maneuver in the first four levels. So, that's uninterrupted time equal to an entire rest period after a day of adventuring (which will presumably be needed because of other rules) just to offset using them once or twice a battle. A failed reflex save giving you eight damage at level three wouldn't be something to scoff at, even if you're going the oni route. -5 total HP or so from Immortal Smoke is a bitch, and creates a feedback loop as you rely on it to survive fatal wounds.
Then you hit level five and the costs really start to bite. Use three level three maneuvers, or some combination thereof and a level two or so, between rests and you can't meditate off the whole penalty in an eight hour period of doing nothing else. Higher levels? Only between big adventures is going to make any headway into offsetting regular use.
It gives the GM character hooks and another reason to not allow lots of downtime during adventures, whilst giving characters increasingly big vulnerabilities to target during those adventures. The costs are going to hurt if the GM tries to use them.
The forbidden cost is low early on, sure--only one or two per maneuver in the first four levels. So, that's uninterrupted time equal to an entire rest period after a day of adventuring (which will presumably be needed because of other rules) just to offset using them once or twice a battle. A failed reflex save giving you eight damage at level three wouldn't be something to scoff at, even if you're going the oni route. -5 total HP or so from Immortal Smoke is a bitch, and creates a feedback loop as you rely on it to survive fatal wounds.
Then you hit level five and the costs really start to bite. Use three level three maneuvers, or some combination thereof and a level two or so, between rests and you can't meditate off the whole penalty in an eight hour period of doing nothing else. Higher levels? Only between big adventures is going to make any headway into offsetting regular use.
It gives the GM character hooks and another reason to not allow lots of downtime during adventures, whilst giving characters increasingly big vulnerabilities to target during those adventures. The costs are going to hurt if the GM tries to use them.
So, you believe that they should be allowed, but make clear warnings? I suppose if nothing else dealing with the price of them would make a few interesting points within a story. *rubs chin*
Aside from Lunatic Lancer, everything else completed in the Grimoire seems acceptable for player use in the setting.
If they fail and you consider them an enemy, their next 1d20 roll takes a profane penalty equal to half the amount of blood charges you spent. If you consider them an ally, their next 1d20 rolls takes a profane penalty bonus to the half the amount of blood charges you spent.
For Septette For The Dead, All The World In Nightmare, what if we have wings, but they aren't bat-like?
Must say that it seems like one of the weaker stances--a flight speed and some DR, but the bonus requires you to spend a ton of blood points to apply single-roll bonuses/penalties that are resisted by a will save.Unlimited darkvision is nice and there's some resistances thrown in there too.
Fixed, thanks.QuoteIf they fail and you consider them an enemy, their next 1d20 roll takes a profane penalty equal to half the amount of blood charges you spent. If you consider them an ally, their next 1d20 rolls takes a profane penalty bonus to the half the amount of blood charges you spent.
Also that part feels like it needs rewriting. Shouldn't it be "If you consider them an ally, their next 1d20 roll gains a profane bonus equal to half the amount of blood charges spent"?
Everything Explodes.
Prerequisite: Knowledge of at least one maneuver that deals damage.
Benefit: You can use maneuvers to deal damage to attack things that interact physically with the world but do not normally have HP such as a fog or a wall of force/fire or mage's tentacles. In the case of area effects such effects count as enemy creatures. In the case of targeted maneuvers you must pick the effects as targets. They count as having 10 HP per CL/IL. If the effect was created by a spell/maneuver/similar of a lower level than the maneuver you're using, it is automatically destroyed instead.
It means that if you have a maneuver that targets specific things instead of affecting an area, then the effect you want to explode must be picked as one of the targets, clarified.QuoteEverything Explodes.
Prerequisite: Knowledge of at least one maneuver that deals damage.
Benefit: You can use maneuvers to deal damage to attack things that interact physically with the world but do not normally have HP such as a fog or a wall of force/fire or mage's tentacles. In the case of area effects such effects count as enemy creatures. In the case of targeted maneuvers you must pick the effects as targets. They count as having 10 HP per CL/IL. If the effect was created by a spell/maneuver/similar of a lower level than the maneuver you're using, it is automatically destroyed instead.
Could maybe use some clarification or clearer explanation, especially when it mentions targeted maneuvers? Does it mean targeting maneuvers that created a persistent effect?
Does the effect being targeted have to be a visible and/or tangible effect that can be physically interacted with?If the maneuver you're using demands a target then you must be able to pick them out, otherwise area effects will work regardless of you being able to detect the target or not (assuming the thing you want to explode is in the same area).
The table for Oni Brawler also has the wrong Base Reflex Save numbers for levels 4 through 9.Fixed too.
Oni Brawler, Scholar, Cat Celebrant, Eternal Royal now got clauses that you can't add the same ability score to AC twice.
Also, what's the fluff cause for Youkaiskins? Do people just sometimes randomly end up becoming them, or is it something you have to specifically work to attain?Can happen either way, a natural talent (pun intended) or the result of lots of exotic training.
If youkaiskins just occur, why do they know martial arts?It comes naturally to the natural talents, like dragons just learn sorceror magic and stuff.
Looking forward to getting a moon rabbit race. I can't wait to face off with invaders and immediately get scared and hide.Lunatic Bunny Girls are go. (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=11209.msg344995#msg344995)
Now that you're back I should start reviewing again. Time to figure out what I was going to do next...