Author Topic: Class - SorO's Blue Mage  (Read 9081 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Class - SorO's Blue Mage
« on: June 01, 2012, 01:35:59 AM »
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*** The Blue Mage ***
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Masters of learning magic, Avatars of move learning. The Blue Mages are a select group of sorcerer warriors who specialize in quick learning and adaptation. Orderly and well organized at their best, and controlling and possessive at their worst, the Blue Mage is a class suited to those who wish to mimic a interesting effect they just witnessed.


Making a Blue Mage
The Blue Mage is a specialist in the arts of compartmentalizing knowledge. Some would say their arcane power assists their development capabilities, others would say their psionic talent's run thick. They work especially well with spontaneous spellcasters and other melee classes, but their style of research is looked down upon by most prepared spellcasters. Additionally classes capable of healing may get tired of seeing the same patient over and over again.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.
Races: Any none-elf.
Starting Gold: [(1d4 × 4) + 1 × 5] gp
Abilities: Like with all force of will casters, Charisma is important to the Blue Mage for determining how powerful their spells are and how many they can cast. High Constitution is a must for the Blue Mage, the ability to survive an attack is required in order to learn new traits and abilities.

Table: The Blue Mage
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*** Class Features ***
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Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A Blue Mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, scimitar, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Blue Mages are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A Blue Mage can cast his spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Blue Mage wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass Blue Mage still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

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Being me is awesome.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Tip for multiclass characters. PrCs advance your spellcasting but not special ability powers, instead you may take the Practiced Spellcaster feat and apply it to your effective Blue Mage level for the purposes of level checks to learn special abilities as a substitution of it's normal caster level increase. This bonus is limited to your HD as normal.

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*** Metagaming ***
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Blue Mage As A Base For A Character Concept
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 03:15:01 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Bauglir

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 01:47:54 AM »
I'd say it ranges anywhere from Tier 3 to Tier 1, entirely dependent on what it winds up fighting. A handy side effect is that it won't wind up with superpowers that are too amazing for a given campaign, because it won't (generally) encounter monsters that have them. I like it. You might want to add rules for defining a starting character's special abilities and spells known. Right now you are in a weird spot where you know nothing (implying your character spontaneously popped into existence) or where you can cherry pick the optimal stuff if your DM gives you carte blanche. Perhaps "starting packages" that include a short list of possible special abilities grouped together with possible spells? Might wind up either too restrictive or too much work, though.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 12:32:47 PM »
I posted some Qs on the Makers game OOC thread - here is the post, for your convenience. Comments, thoughts?



Question: In the Blue Mage writeup, it says two things that seem to conflict:

"He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast."

...and two paragraphs  below that it says...

"Unlike other spellcasters, a Blue Mage can cast his spells any number of times per day. His spellcasting ability is much like a Martial Adapt's ability to use Maneuvers except it applies to the spell slots and not the spells them selves and there is no ability can refresh them earlier than normally allowed and must wait at least five minutes before reusing it again."

Putting the two together, it seems to say that the Blue Mage can cast his "number of spells per day" in each encounter, and then must wait at least 5 minutes to be able to cast that same "number of spells per day" in the next encounter, in a manner similar to maneuvers.

What makes this a little less broken is the very small number of spells he knows and the one-level-slower that he learns them, never more than two per spell level, no matter what Blue Mage level he is. For example, at 5th level he only knows two spells per level: 2 0th, 2 1st, 2 2nd, and at 6th level he adds 1 3rd level spell. (Except high CHA can break this too.)

Also the spells must be ones he has experienced directly, usually from them being cast on or at him.

“A Blue Mage can learn new spells from any spell list provided his Class Level grants him access to the spell he wishes to learn, such spells are treated as being arcane in nature. To learn a new spell the Blue Mage must interact with the spell he wishes to learn in some way (generally getting the spell cast on him)”

This seems to suggest he can take spells that are normally for divine casters. If this is true, some logical ones for Blisss {my character} are healing spells; he could have received them, and would certainly remember them to use them again on others. An arcane healer… cool!

So I would expect that Blisss either doesn’t know spells yet but could and will learn the ones he finds IC, or knows a healing spell and a miscellaneous spell at each level, from backstory

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 06:43:04 AM »
<snip>
"per day" was a hold over of copypasta, corrected to per encounter. Per provided design notes, Charisma does not award additional spell slots within the spellcasting and now says as much in the rules entry.

Yes you can learn Cleric, Druid, Paladin, even Ranger spells as Arcane spells. In all honesty, Cleric/Druid can already be found as Arcane spells within True Dragon entries so this is nothing new, I even mentioned such in the design notes. A Sorcerer can buy a Runestaff with 3/day Heal on it, the difference is you can learn them directly and without items.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 12:07:02 AM »
Thanks for the clarifications!

Sorry if I’m dense, but let me try to recap this so I know I’m clear about it, and I still have a couple of questions.

To pick a level, for illustration:

(1)  Total Number of Spells Known

If I’m a Level 6 Blue Mage, I can know 2 spells of Level 0, 1, 2, and 1 spell of Level 3. So at any given time I know a total of 7 spells, distributed 2/2/2/1.

Correct?

I can change my list of Spells Known at any time after 8 hours of rest. I can change the list to “know” any spell I’ve ever encountered (for example, ever had cast on me, even years ago). To master the spell, whether or not I ever mastered it before, I have to make the DC15+ Spell’s Level roll. “Forgetting” a spell does not prevent me from re-Knowing it whenever I want. I can’t make that roll more than once per encounter. If an encounter clock is not running – we’re just hanging out at the inn – then I can try again.

Not sure about the foregoing… but I didn’t see any time limit on Knowing a spell after experiencing it or re-Knowing one I’ve intentionally forgotten.

Or am I way off base here, and the only time I can make the DC check and learn a spell is immediately after getting hit with the spell? Next round? Or as soon as I wake up after healing from my friend the cleric?

(2)  During An Encounter, Total Number of Spells I Can Cast, and When

I can cast those 7 spells an unlimited number of times in an encounter, with one constraint: 5 minutes must elapse before I can cast the same spell again.

Or, is it this: in accordance with the 2/2/2/1, I can cast the same spell twice at 0-1-2 levels since I have two “slots” but then must wait 5 minutes before I can cast it twice again?

Is one of those correct? Or am I totally confused?

(3)  Not During An Encounter, Total Number of Spells I Can Cast, and When

Does the same time constraint apply if the party is not within an encounter? If we’re not on initiative, could I cast the same spell a bunch of times in a row, or do I still have to wait 5 minutes between castings?

Probably the latter?

(4) Learned Special Abilities

For learned special abilities, there are two constraints: Once per encounter, and wait at least 5 minutes. So if an encounter lasts more than 5 minutes, I still can’t use the ability again until the encounter ends.

If not in an encounter, do I still have to wait 5 minutes before using the ability? That’s my guess.

Comments, please… Thanks!


Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 05:37:28 PM »
I Changed the edit I just mentioned to per day, sounds better but I hope you already got the point on that.

1. Learning
"To learn a new spell the Blue Mage must interact with the spell he wishes to learn in some way (generally getting the spell cast on him) and succeed on a special level check using only his effective Blue Mage level as a bonus (eg a 5th level blue mage / 1st level rogue rolls 1d20+5). The DC is 15 + the spell's level and the Blue Mage can only attempt this check once per encounter as a free action."
I thought I explained things ok. I mean, you need to interact with the spell in question and make your learn check, kind of need both there not just one. A Fireball spell six months ago isn't a spell you're interacting with this morning when you're trying to learn it. Similarly when you become capable of learning using Sense Magic, you have to detect the spell in question (noted as a stand action) and not I think I seen one last month.

2. Casting
As a 6th level Blue Mage you can cast 2/2/2/1 per given 'encounter'. This means (assuming known) you can cast Magic Missile twice, a Fell Drain Magic Missile once, an Empower Magic Missile once, and any two cantrips you feel like. Your spell slots reset every 5 minutes, how you use them is up to you. Yes this means you can spam Passwall to tunnel under a city by casting it in every possible slot and taking a five minute breather, or use Create Water and try to flood a town.

3.
Rain down endless thunderstorms, blizzards and hail. I want you to feel like a reality warping spellcaster that casts spells. Not the hard to understand why does Vancian casting work once per "day", how long does this "day" last, or what about Time Zones? "I blow your mind with Fireball, but the effort takes a bit of Stamina and I just need a quick breather before doing it again" is your answer when asked how you cast. Why can that guy cast two Fireballs before a break or seemingly cast them faster (once per 2.5 minutes)? He is higher level (more slots).

Game breaking? In some ways absolutely yes. Run around spamming Dominate for the brokenz for example. But in combat? You're looking at a max of 2 spells of your highest level, you're back up is 2 spells of your second highest level. You're average spellcaster can at any point decide to use more or less than this amount. This means while maybe a Sorcerer would be better off using two 9ths for each encounter of the daily average four since he'll average out with 8 per day, but if he feels the need to or there simply won't be four encounters he can expend three, or four, or five, or whatever number of 9th level spells he chooses. So unless he has less slots available than you, he simply is stronger.

The huge difference is you can spam as is, no tricks, no short cuts, you can feel like you can cast spells all day. But on the same token, some high powered tricks just don't work. Sorcerer with 70 Charisma gets like twelve 9th level spells per day and can Planeshift to the Mechanicanus plane to sleep for forty minutes and refresh every single one of those slots. Likewise, even a common Wizard can use Extend & Persist to run twice as many buffs as you because he can swap his spells out in mid duration. You do have limits and in some ways you are weaker. But yes, you can cast spells like you enjoy casting them so you are awesome and you prove it to anyone walking down the side walk with you.

And if you think that's too strong, maybe the class isn't for you. But consider reproaching the spell's know section before you pass on things. Honestly, spamming Fireball is ten times worse then dropping Glitterdust on your enemy, and Fireball is a higher level spell. The break point of this Blue Mage comes in on What. You. Know. more than anything else really. I did throw a little warning about Celerity and Quickness in, I don't think I need to make ia glowing neon sign through. And technically, you can't learn anything the DM doesn't try to kill you with. So there's that. :D
Well, barring the other players teaching you cool tricks of course.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 12:13:53 AM »
Too strong? I like running, and playing in, over the top games.

But not all games are like this, and I don't expect them to be - I'm very careful not to break someone else's game for pretty much the same reasons that I don't particularly constrain the players in mine.

So... no prob with strong... it's up to Quill just how outrageous he's willing for us to get.

Offline hazard

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 12:04:58 PM »
I've seen three other blue mages over at the old wotc boards and this is the first one I like.  I mean I like this enough to beg my DMs to allow homebrew.  Most should allow it but I have game with two old gronards that don't like things that isn't on glossed paper.

Also Wow on those awesome pictures.
Replying to me can be Hazardous to your health.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 02:33:30 PM »
Learned abilities question!

For duration it says:

"The duration of the ability (if any) is equal to the number of class levels the Blue Mage posses or the ability's original duration (whichever is shorter)"

So for a Level 6 Blue Mage, the duration is 6 rounds? Or minutes? Or does it depend on the units in the the ability's write-up?

In particular, I am building a character who is into shape changing, so I was looking at the Mimic's "mimic" ability, which has no time limit of its own - but the mimic ability is only useful if you can look like a door, or whatever, for a long period - 6 rounds would not do much good in-game, but 6 hours could, or maybe even 6 turns.

So, how would this work? Or wouldn't it work? It could be lots of fun to play if it did.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 01:42:23 PM »
So for a Level 6 Blue Mage, the duration is 6 rounds? Or minutes? Or does it depend on the units in the the ability's write-up?
Revised to say;
The Blue Mage gains the benefit of the ability a number of rounds equal to the number of class levels the Blue Mage possesses or the ability's original duration (whichever is shorter). If the ability did not require an action to use, such as being passive, it requires a Swift Action to activate. Additionally, the Save DCs (if any) are based off the Blue Mage's Charisma Modifier.

Does that help?

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2012, 03:31:35 PM »
Clear. Thanks!

Offline Libertad

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2012, 04:02:52 PM »
Why can't elves be Blue Mages?

Also, the power level/versatility of a Blue Mage is higher with fellow spellcasters in the party.  If he wants to learn Hold Person, he gets the Wizard to cast it on him.

Also, a Blue Mage may learn the Summon Monster and Nature's Ally series of spells for easy access to monster abilities.  Given that they can get all Knowledge skills as class skills and have 6 + Int skill points, they can learn the abilities of a lot of monsters this way.  A Blue Mage can summon a celestial animal with Summon Monster I, and learn its Spell Resistance by observing it in combat.

Since the DC's pretty high, and it can only be done once per "encounter," it may not be overpowered cheese, but it could potentially end up this way with certain players.

Unless this was part of the intent of the class.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2012, 04:47:18 PM »
Why can't elves be Blue Mages?
Elves get too much love, other races need some too.
Also I hate Elves.
Feel free to override the rule in your own games.


Also, the power level/versatility of a Blue Mage is higher with fellow spellcasters in the party.  If he wants to learn Hold Person, he gets the Wizard to cast it on him.
How are you more versatile than the guy that took a nap so he could teach you Hold Person, then napped to 'learn' something else?

Also, a Blue Mage may learn the Summon Monster and Nature's Ally series of spells for easy access to monster abilities.  Given that they can get all Knowledge skills as class skills and have 6 + Int skill points, they can learn the abilities of a lot of monsters this way.  A Blue Mage can summon a celestial animal with Summon Monster I, and learn its Spell Resistance by observing it in combat.
Or!, he could just cast Summon Monster and have the monster use it's ability, then benefit from the extra actions at his command.

Since the DC's pretty high, and it can only be done once per "encounter," it may not be overpowered cheese, but it could potentially end up this way with certain players.
You can break anything if you tried. As mentioned probably a dozen times, one could go for a Choker's Quickness trait ASAP but your are advised not to. This advice is at least better than Assume Supernatural Ability's entry that just figures who cares?

Unless this was part of the intent of the class.
There really isn't a way to handle obtaining another monster's abilities without either breaking the game, or not. As my design notes put it: The Special Ability adaption has limited duration and requiring an action to use goes back to the same reasoning in the spellcasting. You give an appearance of infinite uses, yet you can't have the ability continuously running. The DCs are intentionally high, 15+ and once per encounter, as something like Quickness isn't readily viable without favorable conditions even by level 7 (45% chance) when Polymorph comes online replicating that bonus. Don't get me wrong this ability can be used pretty abusively. Using creature abilities is one of the essences of a Blue Mage and nothing less than obtaining them works, but something like the Hellbreaker which already does this by ECL 14 is just far to weak to see real play. Even the Spellthief replicates abilities by level 8 but suffers from being too weak so this singular high potential ability simply isn't worth it's own weight if delayed or tied to a weak class.

When addressing the balance of the Blue Mage, it's best to work with your players on what they can know or not. Exactly a you should already be doing when handling effects like Wild Shape or Polymorph.

Offline Libertad

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Re: SorO's Blue Mage
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2012, 05:25:10 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  I reread the "What makes a Blue Mage Blue" entry about special abilities, and the class seems more reasonable now.