I would like to start this off by saying that a Warheart-item (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5580531) equivalent for this would be BEYOND epic.
Perhaps have it replace the weapon's normal attack 1/round with the Spellshape attack from that Circle, and the Formula can be 1/Encounter?
That way, you could have a +2 Greathammer of Crushing Stone, that would let you use the Rockslam spellshape attack as a Spellshaper of your ECL 1/round, with the ability to use Earth Tremor 1/Encounter.
Combine that with +2 Chain Mail of Plummeting Blow, and your random knight becomes SCARY.
Hmm... now I want to design a soulknife equivalent that gets Warheart-equivalent weapons instead of normal weapon enhancements.
Another idea would be to have a PrC that combines this with Shadowcasting. Please? Anyone?
I think your Aging table is incorrect. It looks like a copy/paste of the starting age table.
Water Stoichen seem a little bit off compared to the other options. Their normal ability is water breathing and swimming (useful, but very specific and fine for a racial), but their SLA is a cantrip. Poison immunity is nice, though. It would also be nice if their 5th level Elemental Adept 1 sub ability could give something associated with the water/cold spellshapes similar to the other elements. It just feels like the odd man out in that regard.
Caymir Anchorite 1 and Stoichen Elemental Adept 1 seem like awfully big changes for a single level. I do like the idea of turning you into your pet elemental. Maybe you could expand the range of the elemental auras to your normal melee reach instead of adjacent only, though? Being that close can actually be pretty difficult when reaches rise.
Anchorite looks like a Divine Mind with spellshaping instead of psionics and competence instead of suck. And Savant seems to have inherited the Archivist's non-spellcasting class features.
Battle Sage has the problem of getting something now (Int to AC and defensive shaping Conc checks) for nothing until later. Maybe move the AC and Concentration bonuses up to 3rd level (when you miss Int to Will), then add something else as a minor bonus at 9th and 15th to make up for the other two saves you're losing out on getting Int to (say, Int to spellshape damage rolls or attack rolls). Light armor proficiency, increased HD size, and armored shaping don't really matter unless you invest levels into the class to take advantage of them, so they can probably stay at 1st level without being a problem.
Elemental Spirit seems fair. You give up your elemental companion (a major part of the class) for a variety of helpful abilities that scale with and are appropriate to your level. Looks like a few of them were curbed from the Wu Jen and associated feats. The 20th level one is from that Paladin ACF from Dungeonscape that summons spirits, right?
Idiosyncratic Shaper is... idiosyncratic, I guess? Swap one mental ability score for another (both ways) for one of your Spellshaping class's spellshaping and features. It costs a prepared formula, but that seems fair since everyone gets plenty and you'd only be taking it if you wanted to sync up some ability score-based abilities advantageously. How does the lost prepared formula interact with the Impulse Mage's occurred formulae? Make sure it's spelled out, and consider if you want interactions like this to give you an Idiot Crusader situation.
Invoking Sage gives 8 invocations at the cost of 9 spells (each usable 1/day). Depending on what you choose, that could be a much more reliable and reusable bit of versatility over just having basic spellshaping, but whether the reusability of invocations trumps the variety of spells is another question that I don't know the answer to.
I cringe at Mage-Warrior's Steed making you strictly worse for 1 level (4th) instead of giving the mount directly then. Maybe give the mount at 4th level but say you count as at least 5th level to determine its effects (since the Paladin Mount table doesn't go below 5th)?
Shaman of the Elements is another one of those rock now, don't pay until later deals. Save the auras until 4th when you actually give up Command Elements. It's bad enough you're giving an 18th level class feature away with it (shift aura as swift action). Not that I think restricting aura switches to being very slow is a good thing (I like the Marshal-style switch-as-swift), but if it's good enough for 18th level on one class, no reason to give it away at 1st on another. Similarly, Touch of Vitality should probably wait until 8th level and the condition removal to 12th. Maybe at 16th you can give something to make up for Wrath of Elements, like the ability for your elemental companion to spread a sort of inverted Spellshape Aura in place of or in addition to its elemental aura.
Spellshape Paragon looks like a sort of Divine Crusader/Paladin ACF for Spellshape Champions. The 10th level ability can be rewritten in a more general manner, so you don't need to keep updating it as you add new circles and so players don't need to look up exactly which circle they have to see the benefit.You might want to remove or tweak the Cha to saves at 2nd level and some of the other low-level abilities. It makes the class possibly too great a dip for up to 3 levels. You get Cha to saves, Mettle, Iron Guard's Glare w/o a stance, immunity to fear, immunity to disease, two auras (+4 saves vs. fear and +1 to something of your choice from a Spellshape aura), and if you want to do any more spellshaping you also have Spellshape Channeling (which can just be a minor bonus on a single melee attack per round or channeling some big major formula from another class).(click to show/hide)
Temporal Impulses seems fair at 8th level. You trade one defense (3/day say nyeh to melee attacks, plus other teleport utility) for another (3/day reroll a save, plus the option to reroll attacks). The ability to replay a whole turn at 18th level is probably a fair bit stronger than DDoor, but it's level 18 so things can be a bit wacky.
There is one import observation - spellshaper champion with spellshape study becomes very potent and durable ranged attacker. Especially at level 5th he nearly doubles his damage output. I don't know if it's a flaw in your system, but want to bring it to your consideration.
For most aging tables, the age for each category is fixed, with only the maximum life span being variable.I think your Aging table is incorrect. It looks like a copy/paste of the starting age table.
How is an aging table capable of being incorrect, exactly? I based it off of the aging rates of other races, yes, but that's mainly because I didn't want to just pull numbers of of thin air.
Feats:
Not sure how I feel about Metashaping feats. Without Metashaping Mastery, you have a good chance of failure, lost actions, and nonlethal damage even on things with effective levels a few below your max level.
Invoking Sage gives 8 invocations at the cost of 9 spells (each usable 1/day). Depending on what you choose, that could be a much more reliable and reusable bit of versatility over just having basic spellshaping, but whether the reusability of invocations trumps the variety of spells is another question that I don't know the answer to.
Invoking Sage has actually caused me to lose sleep. I've thought about dropping it to only four invocations, but that trade feels too obviously weak. Maybe the fact that we can't figure out which way is better bespeaks the fact that it's actually well-balanced and a complicated choice...but I don't know. I'll keep thinking on this one--and any further thoughts would be most useful.
Spellshape Auras: How do these work from multiple sources? An Anchorite 1/Spellshape Paragon 1/Shaman of the Elements 4 has it from 3 different sources. Does that mean 3 auras at once?
Anchorite:
I missed this before, but the auras each have nice basic effects in addition to scaling bonuses.
Also, this should say somewhere that you can only project one aura at once before 10th.
Feats:
Not sure how I feel about Metashaping feats. Without Metashaping Mastery, you have a good chance of failure, lost actions, and nonlethal damage even on things with effective levels a few below your max level.
Chain Spellshape - Keep the 7th level+ penalty as dazing, not stunning. Stun immunity is easier to come by than daze immunity, like from Elemental Adept 10, for instance.
When shaping a chained melee spellshape (or channeled through a melee weapon), the ranged touch attacks for secondary targets might make you provoke an AoO. I'm not sure exactly, because I can never remember exactly what the rules on AoOs for ranged attacks are, nor how the usual wording for no provoking AoOs for SLAs that melee spellshapers use goes.
The example is incorrect. The DC only drops by 2, not 4 (secondary DC 15 not 13).
Enhanced Formula - Do you still have to make shaper level checks to use the metashaped formula? If so, this feat is strictly worse than just applying the metashaping feat manually.
Mastered Formula - Should recover it either:
a) 5 rounds after you last shaped it, or
b) after it has been expended for at least 5 rounds.
As written, if you shape it, recover it, and then shape it again, you'll recover it twice (once 5 rounds after the first shaping, and again after the 2nd one). If you start spamming it over and over, you can eventually be recovering it every single round. Probably not intended. The above suggestions will change it so you lose the pending recoveries if you recover the formula sooner (a, b), and if it is expended without being shaped (b).
Maximize Formula - Large amounts of bonus damage instead of large dice may make failing a 4th level metashape more dangerous than at 7th level one.
Metashaping Mastery - Since you take 10 like a skill check, you still can't take 10 in combat (or other stressful/distracting situations), the main time when you'd want to other than with Persistent Spellshape. Just needs to add the "even while threatened or distracted" clause.
Mobile Shaper - Shot on the Run for spellshapes? Precise Shaper is a wasted feat for characters who want this for use for melee spellshapes (using it as Spring Attack). Speaking of which, you might want to let Mobile Shaper count as Shot on the Run, Mobile Caster, and/or Spring Attack for prerequisites and other options. Just a thought.
Persistent Formula - 10 minute duration is well enough for something with encounter-period recovery. Might be a bit tedious keeping it up all day, though. Maybe make it 24 hours, but dismissible if you need to get the formula back or change which formula you persisted? Or is this part of the balancing to prevent someone from persisting formulae they can't always succeed on the shaper level check for?
Just a thought, how about letting a shaper take the feat multiple times, each time letting you persist another formula at the same time?
Sculpt Spellshape - How does this interact with a Spellshape Champion's channeled spellshape? Forget Spellshape Study for a ranged shape, I'm taking this 1st degree metashape to make my melee attacks AoEs.
Shaper's Stride - This is bloody cool.
Spellshape Aura - How does this interact with already being able to project a Spellshape Aura? Similar to Anchorite and Shaman of the Elements, shouldn't this be a full-round action to project?
Still Spellshape - How would this work with a channeled spellshape? I hit you with my sword without moving.For most aging tables, the age for each category is fixed, with only the maximum life span being variable.I think your Aging table is incorrect. It looks like a copy/paste of the starting age table.
How is an aging table capable of being incorrect, exactly? I based it off of the aging rates of other races, yes, but that's mainly because I didn't want to just pull numbers of of thin air.
Since the numbers on starting age and age categories are copied, funky things happen. Adulthood (the time between the start of adulthood and the start of middle age) is 0 years. Anyone playing a character with a late starting age (Wizard, etc.) has a decent chance to be beyond their maximum age, dying years before character creation.
The longest lived Caymir (Adulthood 18 yrs, similar to humans) has a maximum age of 18+6+12+18 = 54, which seems a bit short, no? Masked Ones are 15+4+6+12=37, Stoichen are 20+12+18+24=74. I think only Azurin have similarly short lifespans compared to starting age, and that's part of their racial fluff (born with essentia but the incarnum energy eats their bodies up, burning through their lifespan quickly).
Edit: A couple typos I noticed.
Stoichen
Automatic Languages: Stoichen speak Comman and the elemental language appropriate to their ancestry (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran). Bonus Languages: Aquan, Auran, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Ignan, and Terran.
Eternal Moment
Senescence - and a a cumulative –2 penalty to Dexterity and Constitution.
One more thought - isn't Savant better than Impulse Mage? Actually, Savant got more class features (which also affect his team), bonus feats, only a bit worse hit dice and more skill points (due to Intelligence focus), the same number of formulas and much more predictable recovery mechanic. Shouldn't you boost a bit impulse mage?
I'm actually more likely to try to figure out how to weaken the Savant, to be honest.
I think that bad fortitude progression (it's very useful save) and cutting bonus feat at 1st level would make the Savant more on par with the Impulse Mage.
New PrCs are great (especially gishy Spellforge Warsmith), but is there any chance to see more of "meshing two circles" classes, as Lavamancer or Hand of Death's Chill?
I haven't looked over the PrC's in detail, so if there already is then shame on me, but I was wondering if there are any plans for a PrC mixing spellshaping and ToB initiators? Because that could be quite awesome.
I'm going to try and play a spellshaper soon, probably an Impulse Mage going into either Chaos Shaper or Dreamwalker.
May I suggest an optional ability to use Spell-shape attacks as a breath weapon? So you would fire a cone of Withering Hand, or something?
It would be as simple as converting it to a small cone/line, and replacing the attack roll with a reflex save.
Alternatively, just give them an at-will breath weapon, that they use instead of their spell-shape attack.
Or something.
- Prestige Class: Unnamed, Shadowcaster / Spellshaper - Well, I have to learn how shadowcasting works--the only Tome of Magic material that gets any frequent use at our table is binding--but I see no reason not to at least try to fulfill Amechra's request on this one.
- Base Class: Unnamed, Focused Searing Flame Spellshaper - No name for it yet--everything sounds too stupid or has been used--but this guy was previewed in one of my shorthand note thingies a few posts ago. Basically, a melee combat spellshaper who uses melee touch attacks and gets a rage-like ability. And some other goodies. There is absolutely no guarantee that this will evolve into one base class for each circle--in fact, I find it highly unlikely. I just really like Searing Flame. The entire project grew out of my desire to play a fire-based magic user without being horribly underpowered, so this is really just inevitable.
- Base Class: Unnamed, Focused Devouring Shadow Spellshaper - Basically, my answer to the dread necromancer. I'm trying to decide whether I want it to start undead--as in a ritual that you undergo at 1st level that basically necropolitan-izes you--or whether I want it to slowly become a lich--like a dread necromancer. Similarly, I can't decide whether I want it to make lots of minions, or whether I want it focus on just one in a manner reminiscent of the Pathfinder summoner. Either way, it's getting a phylactery sooner or later.
- Possibly More? - Really, this one's up to chance and you guys. Either I'll randomly have ideas, or you'll suggest them. Either way works, really.
Quote
- Base Class: Unnamed, Focused Searing Flame Spellshaper - No name for it yet--everything sounds too stupid or has been used--but this guy was previewed in one of my shorthand note thingies a few posts ago. Basically, a melee combat spellshaper who uses melee touch attacks and gets a rage-like ability. And some other goodies. There is absolutely no guarantee that this will evolve into one base class for each circle--in fact, I find it highly unlikely. I just really like Searing Flame. The entire project grew out of my desire to play a fire-based magic user without being horribly underpowered, so this is really just inevitable.
Burning Rage Acolyte
Scorching Blood Cultist
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- Base Class: Unnamed, Focused Devouring Shadow Spellshaper - Basically, my answer to the dread necromancer. I'm trying to decide whether I want it to start undead--as in a ritual that you undergo at 1st level that basically necropolitan-izes you--or whether I want it to slowly become a lich--like a dread necromancer. Similarly, I can't decide whether I want it to make lots of minions, or whether I want it focus on just one in a manner reminiscent of the Pathfinder summoner. Either way, it's getting a phylactery sooner or later.
I would recommend NOT modeling it after the DN's lich-iness. People who want that can already be a DN, and one of the biggest strategies for a DN is to become Necropolitan as soon as possible. I wouldn't give it at first level, though -- give it at 3rd, to make it roughly equivalent to becoming Necropolitan. Undead immunities at 1st level are pretty brutal.
Also, there are again already several classes built around an undead army. I would look for something unique to bring to the table there. In particular, Devouring Shadow is NOT about undead, it's about negative energy and status effects. I would say that you could make a devouring shadow/necromancy dual-progression PrC that would work well, but as a base class I personally would go for something a little more oddball. Like, maybe give a negative-energy version of something like the Shifter Druid's beast spirit ACF, modeled around a ghostly visage... and then some of the class features basically bind you to it to get more and more abilities?
Another thing is that based again on the flavor of the Devouring Shadow formulae, maybe a lich makes less sense than something like a vampire? Liches are more self-contained, while vampires, you know, devour. They also do negative levels and things with attacks, so thematically and mechanically it fits.
Anyway, I can't give you name suggestions until I know more about what you'll do with the class :D
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- Possibly More? - Really, this one's up to chance and you guys. Either I'll randomly have ideas, or you'll suggest them. Either way works, really.
And of course, I'm going to suggest some homebrew theurgery. How about a spellshape/ritualist (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1334.0) blend? :D :D
Also, a spellshape/incarnum prestige class would be amazing. I have a couple of incarnum homebrews (a wilder/totemist prc and an aberration-themed base class), so if you like I can work on something.
3: But getting to add an extra stat to armor is a feature that is thrown around all over the place and it is almost always accompanied by the ability to just also wear light armor. Swordsage does it in the book you are trying to replicate and he wears light armor. When designers give out an extra stat to AC bonus it is to help lightly armored characters use their shtick and be just as effective as at least medium armored characters. In DnD Armor is a standard so not wearing armor is a big loss, this is one of the primary reasons why a good Swashbuckler class has never really been done. Armor has very few negatives, huge positives, and was a conceptual standard for the designers when making the game. So the name for characters who don't wear armor is not "Fencer" but "NPC".
5: Perhaps we are. But the balance point I'm aiming for for your classes is the same I aim for for all classes; equal to monsters. People who make classes fight each other are sort of missing the point. Equal CR Monsters are something a class should be competitive against and that's really all that matters. I have no doubt that your classes would do really nicely in the beginning 5 levels or so but then they will start losing ground and they won't stop until whatever campaign ends. And to your two points about range and buffs; In range I actually added up the average range of powers in the Shocking Current Discipline which I chose at random. The average range all totaled for ranged powers is 56 feet, so I was under by 10 with my guess. I still believe the point stands perfectly however that the class suffers from a lack of good ranged options. If you are trying to emulate the Warlock then I would recommend including things to improve their actual ranged capability, as the Warlock has a single effect which makes all his attacks 400 feet long. As to buffs I will assume you know more than I. I don't feel like they have enough powerful buff capability but despite my fondness for testing rigor I'm not gonna go through every maneuver. The maneuvers I've seen on my read through tend to be not quite powerful enough for the characters level, situational, possessing a short duration, and need to be pre-chosen for encounters which means taking up space from directly effective combat choices. So your flight troubleshooting maneuver and your teleportation troubleshooting maneuver both compete with space with your awesome doing-things maneuvers. And magic flight or teleportation items do exist, but yes you are correct. Melee characters WERE screwed forever in 3.5. Famously so. It was all anyone really ever talked about. We even had phrases for it. DMF: Dumb melee fighter comes to mind. High level monsters didn't have to interact with fighter characters that just swung swords, you really had to bring a lot more to the fight or else you literally couldn't play in the big leagues. And the idea that this imbalance is in any way fixed by the idea of making every 1oth level barbarian spend 27,000 gold of his total 49 on some boots of flying and a cape of the mountebank is pretty offensive. I mean at that point your really talking about a huge handicap being put onto what are already the worst and least performing classes in the game. But as I said, if you think your classes buff paradigm is up to snuff I won't argue it further as I will assume, rightly, you have a finer mastery of your system than I do. However I do urge you to at least look at some of these concepts, any one really roll a dice, when revising your product. I think you have something that has a lot of potential here. That's why I've written like 3 billion words over just 3 days of playtesting. I think you could produce something that could be seen on a lot of tables and I would like that. The concepts that you are attempting to realize are strong ones but I think some revision is required, and if I may be somewhat forward here, I think the concept of reading a tremendously lengthy series of in depth critiques on your product and saying that every single one of them is without merit is....well....really unlikely. It's dishonest to the idea of publishing the strongest product you can to slough off critique.
sirpercival - Sounds interesting, though I'm not exactly sure what a "spellshaper version of an X-Men mutant" would entail mechanically. Or were you talking more about flavor with that one?
(I'm also not terribly familiar with the X-Men, unfortunately. All I know is that some are psychic, some shoot lasers, and some have metal claws and freakish healing capacities.)
The other point, for obvious reasons, is much more in-depth. Especially given my rather limited experience with D&D, I don't fully understand all of the sides of your argument--I rolled my first character in September of 2010
First of all I'll say I didn't read through or use codex 2 so I didn't use any metashaping feats. Honestly those seem incredibly important in bridging the gap. The difference in being able to fly for 3 rounds with being able to fly for 6 is huge (or potentially all rounds, at later levels). That is a really really big deal and a good way to go about it. The only thing I would say now is move it into the main book. I think you can push one product to people as "Your cool homebrew thing" but not 2 with anywhere near the rate of success.
So if you move the metashaping feats into the main rulebook the only problem you really have left in terms of power is a lack of available slots for your troubleshooting powers (I.E. your flight, ghost touch, invisibility type powers). See if by 12th level you only have some 4 prepared slots for about half of your classes they just can't use them up with troubleshooting options AND valid combat spellshapes. I think this is a problem. I believe you could solve this either by increasing the number of available prepared slots to people OR an option I like better: Allowing people to do some sort of swift action, once per encounter switch out of some (or all) maneuvers. That way you are always able to handle a flying opponent by suddenly switching in your flight spell instead of always keeping it on as one of your 4 ready maneuvers.
HOLY CRAP!!!
That is goddamned astounding Don! I seriously just need to lead off by saying that. I mean it is seriously an absolutely astonishing feat to have only been playing for a year and to have already put together and (essentially) completed a project of this magnitude. That is amazing and I think that is speaks of a bright future in game design for you from here forward. Really: Bravo.
In the case of any ability, class feature, or other part of the spellshaping material that scales by shaper (or initiator) level and references a "maximum" value--for example, many spellshape attacks mention a maximum amount of damage at 17th level--these maximums are intended to be used only in non-epic play. Epic characters continue to advance at the same rate that they did before reaching these "maximums." For example, a 21st-level elemental adept has a fireblast attack that deals 6d6 points of fire damage, even though fireblast is said to reach its maximum damage of 5d6 points of fire damage at 17th level. Similarly, an anchorite's spellshape aura bonuses continue to advance beyond 20th level, and a dragonheart adept's enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls continues to increase by +1 every three levels.(click to show/hide)
Type 2 IdiotCrusaderImpulse Mage (WIP)(click to show/hide)
Never mind. This doesn't work. The spellshaping rules have enough differences from ToB that it can't be done (nothing keeping your classes' formulae separate for one; the whole small section on multiclassed spellshapers is pretty sparse). Still, plenty of Charisma synergy in the classes, which is fun to note.
Just it's use in the build and as a small-level dip in general.
IIRC, the rules against learning/readying the same maneuver from multiple classes, and from sharing between, was from the FAQ (one of the parts that people don't seem to refer to as "Skip Smokes Crack" for some reason). It may have been form the online Ask the Sage column (but I think most of those were put in the FAQ anyways).
Also, one of the classes I was looking at (I think it was Dragonheart Mage) had a typo. I think it was in the section about the spellshape breath weapon. I wish I'd recorded it. All I remember was that it said "you" instead of whatever the word was supposed to actually be.
By the way, wasn't there some feat akin to Extra Granted Maneuver for Impulse Mages? I can't find it. I also can't find any rules talking about what happens when you get more formulae prepared when you use granted formulae.
Extra Prepared Formula
You are an unusually perspicacious student of spellshaping, and you find it easy to keep a large number of formulae ready for use.
Prerequisite: One level in a spellshaper class
Benefit: Increase the number of formulae you can prepare for your spellshaper levels by one. For example, a 5th-level spellsage can normally prepare six formulae. With this feat, she can prepare seven.
If you are an impulse mage, an additional formula also occurs to you at the beginning of an encounter and whenever you recover your expended formulae.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, gaining an additional prepared formula each time. However, you cannot take this feat if doing so would cause the number of formulae that you can prepare to exceed the number of formulae that you know.
If you choose to add the formula prepared to an arcane formula progression derived from impulse mage class levels, one additional formula also occurs to you at the beginning of an encounter (and whenever you recover your expended formulae) for each additional formula you can prepare.
However, whenever you may a full attack,
- Elemental Adept - Elemental Companion - Add an enhancement bonus to AC equal to 1/4 master's shaper level to "Devotion" ability.
- Elemental Adept - Elemental Companion - Add an enhancement bonus on attack rolls equal to 1/4 master's shaper level to "Elemental Strike" ability.
- Spellshape Champion - Break up "Armor Mastery" ability, splitting its benefits over several levels.
- Corrosive Blade - Remove "Skirmishing Shaper" ability
- Darkened One - Change duration of "Dominate Soul" ability to five rounds, with a save each round to end the effect.
- Edgewalker Knight - Change "Knight's Oath" ability to just let you shape all formulae in armor. It's just easier that way.
- Edgewalker Knight and Flamedancer - Add "Sublime Shaping" ability
- Elemental Channeler - Increase daily uses of "Elemental Shape" ability to equal your class level.
- Flamedancer - Change enhancement bonus on fire blade to 1/4 shaper level (rather than 1/2 class level)
- Hand of Death's Chill - Clean up wording on "Touch of Chill Death" ability
- Unseen Master - Put a limit on "Concealed Stride" and "Unfettered Sight" abilities. Why did you think that was a good idea, again?
- Unseen Master - Remove Mindsight feat from "Telepathy" ability.
- Unseen Master - Change daily uses of "Alter Memory" ability to once per day.
- Woodspeaker - Add a paragraph break in "Nature's Rejuvenation" ability.
- Woodspeaker - Change "Call Brambles" ability to have no daily limit, add dismissal, make move action.
- Woodspeaker - Change "Call Healing Spore" ability to once per encounter.
- Woodspeaker - Change "Body of the Forest" ability to give you traits and change your type, rather than giving you a template.
- Spellshape Paragon - Clarify that, because you do not learn a new formula at 2nd level, the number of formulae you know at all higher levels is reduced by 1 (to a maximum number of formulae known of 21)
- Spellshape Paragon - Change "rebuke spell" ability to immediate action.
- Heighten Formula - Add: "In addition, major formulae that add damage to your spellshape attacks add an extra two dice of damage for each level by which you heighten the formula."
- Spellforge Warsmith - Change enhancement bonuses to 1/4 shaper level (rather than 1/2 class level)
- Spellforge Warsmith - Change the "Spellforge Armor" ability to grant immunity to the appropriate damage type (as by Spellshape Paragon), rather than dealing retributive damage.
- Wildheart Mage - Add to "Fey Transformation" ability, making the tenth level in the class more compelling (especially for caymir)
- Sublime Shaper - Change "rebuke spell" ability to immediate action
Maybe a Setting Sun/Brilliant Dawn PrC, if only just for the imagery? The two do have a shared theme of debilitating foes that could be interesting.
Well the Unseen Master isn't really sneaky. It hasn't got Hide or Move silently, and doesn't advance sneak attack.
And I was thinking more in the lines of a Base Class. Something to marry rogue wth spellshaping. There is classes that bring to mind, sorcerer, wizard, warblade, Dragonfire Adept, crusader, dragon shaman...but nothing that says rogue.
Plus I don't realy concider shadow hand/devouring shadow combination trite. It seems a natural combination. An awesome combination. Maybe a swordsage shaper who can channel withering touch through his blades?
Blasting with illusion effects. Now I've seen everything. Sounds like that and the prismatic circle are going to be fairly unique.
Not many damaging spells come to mind. The only thing I can suggest is Indigo Trickster http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12244 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12244). His invocation are mainly illusion-y.
I would like to also make a suggestion about a probability harnessing circle.
Focusing on buffs and debuffs.
Spellshaping Attack:
Probability blast; Ranged touch attack; Untyped Damage; Hits creature and causes freak incidents (burst blood vessels or something similar) tha cause it damage.
Higher level Formulas enable you to bring two or more possibilities into reality at the same time. Maybe giving you extra actions or your allies extra attacks, as ghostly duplicates of their hands come into being from a reality that could have been.
Here you go: Holomancer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2311.0) Lens Mage (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2732.0)
Wildfire
Searing Flames (Major) [Fire]
Level: Elemental adept 3, impulse mage 3, spellsage 3, spellshape champion 3
Prerequisite: One Searing Flame formula
Shaping Action: 1 standard action
Range: Fireblast attack
Target: One creature
Effect: 10-ft.-radius spread of fire
Duration: 5 rounds
Saving Throw: Reflex half; see text
Spell Resistance: No
The flames of your attack burst against your foe, then ignite the ground at his feet in a fierce blaze.
As a part of shaping this formula, you make a single fireblast attack that deals an extra 3d6 points of damage. If it hits, your attack creates a 10-foot spread of fire, centered on your target. The fire deals 1d6 points of fire damage per two shaper levels to any creature standing in an affected square at the beginning of its turn, with a Reflex save for half damage. In addition, the flame deals damage to any creature entering or passing through an affected square.
As a move action, you can command the spread of flame increase or decrease its radius by up to 10 feet, up to a maximum radius of 20 feet and a minimum radius of 5 feet. You can also use a move action to command the flame to move along the ground at a speed of 30 feet. Finally, if you so choose, you can command the fire to increase or decrease its radius by 5 feet and move 15 feet with a single move action.
Hm...
So, I'm rolling up a Spellforge Warsmith for a Gestalt PbP campaign, and I was wondering... Is it intended to render ranged combat (via throwing/archery) completely invalid?
If not, perhaps saying that the weapon vanishes at the end of the round it's let go of would work...
Oh, and why is it treated as a light weapon? Is it to prevent people from two handing it for a decent increase in damage?
Also, how do Lamens work with Spellforged Weapons? As-per normal, allowing a character to enchant it? What about with armor?
If they work differently with the armor and shield, perhaps a class feature allowing a Warsmith to gain some defensive abilities is in order.
The properties of a lamen apply only to spellshape attacks that are shaped normally. A spellshape champion who channels her spellshape attacks through a sword, for instance, would receive no benefits from a lamen. However, spellforge warsmiths and flamedancers benefit from lamens normally, as their abilities note that the weapons they create are subject to effects that would modify their spellshape attacks.
Well, the class was designed entirely with melee combat in mind, so I hadn't given any thought to throwing or ranged weapons. However, I have absolutely no problems with a ranged variant in which it vanishes at the end of the round in which it is let go. Let me give it some thought before I errata anything.
The reason behind it being a light weapon is that I lifted the rules text for it from flamedancer. I don't see a real reason that it would matter that greatly, though your point about two-handing it is interesting. If there is a good reason for it to not be a light weapon, let me hear it.
From the lamen rules:Quote from: Lamens and Spellforge WeaponsThe properties of a lamen apply only to spellshape attacks that are shaped normally. A spellshape champion who channels her spellshape attacks through a sword, for instance, would receive no benefits from a lamen. However, spellforge warsmiths and flamedancers benefit from lamens normally, as their abilities note that the weapons they create are subject to effects that would modify their spellshape attacks.
As such, only your weapon would benefit. The idea about defensive abilities is an interesting one, though I'm unsure of how to implement it without having to map a different defensive ability onto each offensive ability a lamen could have.
In other news, I've come up with a few ideas for Fleeting Image, though--amusingly--almost none of them involve actually creating images. Mostly, it's deceit and suchlike--though I'm very amused by one formula, which calls for a Will save against disbelieving in your own existence. The 9th-level formula, incidentally, might end up being a rip-off and a cop-out--essentially a shadow conjuration for formulae that lets you mimic any other formula if your target fails their Will save.
After looking at it briefly, I think I'm actually going to abandon the prismatic circle idea. It's just...too much. It would effectively be seven new circles in one, and I'm pretty sure that I'd run out of ideas long before completing 147 different effects. So, yeah, no.
I've also been bouncing around some ideas for more character options for the other base classes, along the same lines as the recent elemental adept material. We'll see if anything results from that.
Of course. The thought is interesting, though, and combining it with, say, Bloodstorm Blade could result in a few shenanigans... Of the good type.
Simply put... DR. Now, I know that you're thinking "Oh, they aren't subject to DR", but...
That's only the energy types. Natural Balance, and the others that deal non-energy, non-untyped damage deal stuff that IS affected by DR. Let those spellshape attacks, and those alone, gain the ability to be weilded as one handed weapons, also allowing them to be used two handed in the process. Up the damage output a bit for using something that doesn't ignore DR, just to be nice.
Hm. A simple way would to add to it "Some lamens are of a defensive focus instead of an offensive one. If you shape a formula that grants an AC bonus to yourself or another character, increase that bonus by the Enhancement bonus of the lamen. Spellforge Warsmiths may add the effects of Lamens to their Spellforge Armor and Shields. Much like offensive Lamens, defensive Lamens may have various abilities that are, for the most part, similar to normal magical armor enhancements. The ones recommended are as follows."
Then follow that with a decent number of enhancements, mostly cloned from normal 3.5.
Hm.... Perhaps a little bit of real illusions? Maybe something like Figment of Light, from Brilliant Dawn? I think a defensive/subtle circle is an interesting idea. After all, not all magic is blowing shit up.
Also, consider making the spellshape attack create a silent image, increasing in power as you level, and letting all formulae affect that. That'd be lulzy.
Hm... Maybe something like the Bladebound (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/bladebound) Magus archetype from Pathfinder for the Spellshape Champion?
Wow, that's something. Good luck sorting this trouble out. I'd hate to see this work disappear.
I know a number of people on minmax have their own websites, why don't you ask around and see if anyone is willing to post them for you?
Creatures caught in the storm can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the storm take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls.Why not just say they are entangled as long as they are caught?
Chill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body. Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Heat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body. Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Acid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body. Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?
Hardening (Ex): If a magma paraelemental shaper takes damage equal to half of its full normal hit points from water or cold damage within 1 minute, its body hardens into volcanic rock. This hardening lasts for 5 rounds, after which the creature returns to its fluid form. While hardened, the magma paraelemental shaper's statistics change as follows:What if the increased hit points cause the total water/cold damage taken to be less than half its new hp total? Or is that part of what you meant by "full normal hit points"? Or is that just an utterly irrelevant question because it's a one-time triggered effect, and thus only cares about the elemental's hp when the effect triggers (which is before it would gain more hp)?
...
It gains the solid subtype and the associated traits (including hardness 8 and bonus hit points based on its size, if the paraelemental is Medium or larger).
Finally, the grime of an ooze paraelemental shaper's body pollutes any water it touches. An ooze paraelemental shaper can spoil 1 gallon of water (or other water-based liquids) per round, but the paraelemental must remain in contact with the liquid for 1 full round in order to do so. Creatures made of water and creatures with the water subtype are unaffected by this ability.Does this immunity apply only to the last part of Corrosive Body or to the entire ability?
Spellshaping: Do all 4 HD Elemental Shapers know those formulae, or is that just the typical list known?
Air Elemental Shaper
The Claw attack bonus should be +8, not +6 (3 BaB, 5 Dex).Quote from: Inner TempestCreatures caught in the storm can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the storm take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls.Why not just say they are entangled as long as they are caught?
Earth Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +7 instead of +5.
Ooh, tanky. And simple, as earth is often portrayed. No complaints here.
Fire Elemental Shaper
Burning Touch should indicate that it is a touch attack in the stat block (ie: "+6 melee touch"). Well, I suppose it doesn't absolutely have to, but other creatures that perform actual touch attacks (not incorporeal touches, but those are a very specific kind of natural weapon usually, I think) have it indicated as such. Although, they doesn't often have "touch" in the weapon's name. Still, it can't hurt.
Water Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.
Paraelemental ShapersQuote from: ChillChill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body. Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.Quote from: HeatHeat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body. Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.Quote from: AcidAcid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body. Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?
Magma Paraelemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.
Quote from: HardeningHardening (Ex): If a magma paraelemental shaper takes damage equal to half of its full normal hit points from water or cold damage within 1 minute, its body hardens into volcanic rock. This hardening lasts for 5 rounds, after which the creature returns to its fluid form. While hardened, the magma paraelemental shaper's statistics change as follows:What if the increased hit points cause the total water/cold damage taken to be less than half its new hp total? Or is that part of what you meant by "full normal hit points"? Or is that just an utterly irrelevant question because it's a one-time triggered effect, and thus only cares about the elemental's hp when the effect triggers (which is before it would gain more hp)?
...
It gains the solid subtype and the associated traits (including hardness 8 and bonus hit points based on its size, if the paraelemental is Medium or larger).
Also, what happens if it takes 1/2 its total hp in water/cold damage again while already hardened? It can't exactly lose the fluid subtype and gain the solid subtype again, but does its +4 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 nat armor stack again? Probably not because it would a modifier from the same source.
Ooze Paraelemental Shaper
The slam attack is listed as 1d6 in the normal attack, and 1d8 in the full attack. As a singular natural attack, it should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.Quote from: Corrosive BodyFinally, the grime of an ooze paraelemental shaper's body pollutes any water it touches. An ooze paraelemental shaper can spoil 1 gallon of water (or other water-based liquids) per round, but the paraelemental must remain in contact with the liquid for 1 full round in order to do so. Creatures made of water and creatures with the water subtype are unaffected by this ability.Does this immunity apply only to the last part of Corrosive Body or to the entire ability?
Smoke Paraelemental Shaper
See Fire Elemental about indicating that Burning Touch is a touch attack.
Paraelemental ShapersQuote from: ChillChill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body. Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.Quote from: HeatHeat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body. Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.Quote from: AcidAcid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body. Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?
The amount of damage is listed in the statblocks, as with the MM1 fire elemental. I'm not sure what your second question is asking.
Edit: In all the confusion, I forgot to mention, great stuff as always, can't wait to see more, etc. Thanks for all the effort you put into this.
Arcane Meditation: Impulse Mages can use light armor without interfering with their spellshapes. Should the speed boost not also apply while in light armor?
For the reflection effect, I need to check this, but I think you can voluntarily miss with an attack. As such (assuming I'm correct), the reflected effect's caster could choose to miss, thus making the reflection kind of moot. Maybe have the Impulse Mage make the attack roll instead? If it didn't also cost an immediate action, this ability could wind up as a fun "tennis with the boss" situation.
Dark Impulses: Impulse Mages choose 5 circles to use, not 4.
Woot! Hexblade's Curse (the good version) and those fluffy Shadowcaster goodies!
Impulsive Jaunt (and Impulsive Dodge/Tactics/etc.): Is this movement supposed to be teleportation? Or is it forced but otherwise normal movement, like being Bull Rushed?
Impulsive Voyage: This used to be a spell belonging to Nybor, right?
Since it functions like teleport, does that mean you can affect multiple creatures with a single use based on your caster level?
"Elemental adept? Is that...you? What happened?"
"I got revised..."
"Revised?"
"A lot..."
"Should I be calling Homebrew Services?"
"No, no! It's nothing like that. He...he loves me."
"Elemental adept, would you just listen to yourself?"
"SHUT UP, IMPULSE MAGE! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE!"
"Now, listen..."
"NO, YOU LISTEN! WHAT DONQUIXOTE AND I HAVE IS MAGICAL! DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND SAY ANYTHING DIFFERENT!"
...that...is not what I expected to type. Either way, revisions have been posted. Also, new PDFs.
Well, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12972643#post12972643)'s the PrC I mentioned working on. It'll need to be tweaked a bit, I'm sure, but... It's a start.
DonQuixote, please stop posting things so late at night. You make it very hard for me to keep a decent bedtime.
Just saw this! I've added it to the Index, and I'll look over it when I have the chance. Unfortunately, I have a paper due tomorrow...and I sort of spent most of today writing a race.
just a question on spellheart items.
Do I misread something or for 2500 gp you get a +1 Magic Weapon that converts all your damage to force damage? (spellheart weapon with 1st level Unseen Impetus formula)
Edit: Also does the rule preventing you from enchanting spellheart items, also prevents you from attaching crystals?
I'm not sure there even is, technically, such a thing as "force damage". I think it's just what the community commonly uses to refer to the damage caused by force effects, which is untyped.
Spellshaping: Does this mean that if you dip a single level of Elemental Adept, you can't even shape from the opposed circle with your other spellshaping classes?
Devoted Adept: Can this (or at least the CL boost) apply to your associated spellshapes, too, so you don't have to remember about the extra +/- 1-2 CLs when you shape a major versus when you use a spellshape atatck normally?
Elemental Travel: You get this at level 13. Unless there's something kooky about the spell I don't know, why not just make this at will? Anything that'll have at least 13 uses per day is close enough already.
Sage: S-A-G-E. Sage.Haw haw. How very droll.
I just found it particularly weird that the feat based on casting (Arcane Talent) spells didn't work with the ACF based on casting spells slightly differently (Divine Gift). The rest make sense: A Stoichen isn't a companion, a Temporal Impulse Mage doesn't teleport, etc.. But a Divine Gift Spellsage is still casting spells, just from a different list, and an Arcane Master Spellsage still casts a whole bunch of spells, just in a more limited manner (although I can easily see that bit being too much of a stretch).
It's a shame the Spellsage doesn't have a couple more class features. It feels just a bit bare with only 2 real class features other than spellshaping (Int to saves and a bunch of spells).
I like it! I especially like the Living Spell familiar option.
Also, I just want to say that I've been slowly looking at things here and there and so far I really really like the system that you have built. I don't understand it all quite yet, but I like what I've seen just the same. Enough that your Spellshaping Codices are in the "homebrew I really like" section of my extended signature. :)
In the living spellshape race's alternate spellsage levels. In the 3rd level you add Living Spellshape Familiar. In the table Honed Mind doesn't appear as it should since in the text you say Familiar doesn't replace anything.
Just to clarify.
You loose a total of 8 formula's known for all those features?
Arcane Mastery is designed for fighting mages. Sure, invoking sage might have more possible applications, but--as one of my players demonstrated last night--an antimagic ray cast during a surprise round can more or less change the entire nature of the encounter.
The rules on domains and devotion feats specify cleric in their description, so, no. Domains received through the Divine Gift alternative class feature cannot be traded out for devotion feats.
Yes, phantasmal blast is more limited. However, so are illusions. Undead and constructs are, last I checked, immune to phantasms and patterns--making most of your abilities that would affect them useless in any case.
Let me explain myself - this patch isn't worthless. It has few powerful and unique effects, as antimagic ray or spell resistance. But some of its abilities (2nd level, 14th level and 20th level) are weaker than appropraite abilities of other ACFs and standard spellsage.
Yes, they are, but limiting Fleeting Image spellshape attack to nonlethal damage reduces one's ability to deal with such creatures even more. No other circle is so specialized.
I'll give it another look, but I'm generally of the opinion that not every level needs to be equally powerful, so long as the build as a whole has interesting components. We'll see, though!
Right, but--unlike a beguiler--no spellshaper is restricted to only Fleeting Image formulae. Specializing in illusions means that your specialization will be useless against things not subject to illusions. However, you'll still--at the very least--have the spellshape attacks from your other circles.
The armor bonus, combined with the maximum Dexterity bonus, adds up to +9 for each armor type.
Gee, more Searing Flame love? Seems like a disproportionate amount of classes have a fire theme, although that might just be me.
Ashen Eyes: Didn't you already do this idea with the Hand of Death's Chill's Frostsight, except better?
I don't understand why the vow requires you to forsake heavy armor. Between proficiency with all martial weapons and Spellshape Channeling, it implies a combative bent that should fit with it. You'll still probably be suffering ASF for it, unless you already spent took the time and effort to get class features to negate that. Besides, with a d6 hit die and an explicit inability to make the usual ranged spell shape attacks, you're going to be pretty vulnerable.
The scrying stuff is fun, and I suppose pretty darn necessary. Since you can't actually see that far, you could be easily walking into an obvious ambush if you don't look ahead for it.
Other than that, you're an Oracle of the Stars without the circle options or the luck manipulation. Doesn't feel all that impressive to me.
Why do second level formulae all require you have a formula from that circle? Second, at least, should be able to be gotten with dips.
*Shrug* This is just a point of philosophy on which we disagree. Dabbling gets you 1st-level formulae, but anything more advanced than that takes commitment.
You've written 2 sourcebooks by yourself; you are allowed to slow down.
Seriously, you are on the list of the most prolific homebrewers I've ever encountered the work of: the only other people I can think of who are anywhere near as prolific within one given system are Realms of Chaos (Xenotheurgy) and sirpercival (Rituals).
Also, there should be a feat allowing you to deal nonlethal damage with spellshape attacks/formulae. Because, really.
I made a little ACF for Savant which turns her into spellshaping variant of the beguiler. Sorry for clunky wording.
Savvy Trickster
Some savants, instead of academic lore, gather wisdom of rogues and other scoundrels.
(Snip)
If you want a skillmonkey spellshaper off the Savant chassis, how about a spellshaping Indianna Jones type "archaeologist"?
If you want a skillmonkey spellshaper off the Savant chassis, how about a spellshaping Indianna Jones type "archaeologist"?
Seeker of (historical) knowledge? Check.
Good excuse to have trapfinding and lots of skills? Check.
Open to more than just combat-related class features? Check.
What I wonder, though, is if it wouldn't mesh better mechanically with the Impulse Mage instead.
Savant's Still Mind says it comes at 4th, but the table says 6th.
Savant's Knowledge: Clarity should reduce the miss chance that you and your allies suffer on attacks against the subjects, not their miss chance (which, used as a general term like that, would either be completely meaningless or be a buff to your enemies).
Edit: Savant's Knowledge (in the general description) mentions improving when you beat the DC by 5+, but all of the abilities' boosts are at 10+.
Is the limitation of using Savant's Knowledge actually supposed to be once ever per creature? You'd think it would be once per encounter or once per day or something. I know you don't meet that many recurring villains, but it would be a shame to lose one of your class features at level 20 because you used it already at level 3.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for any armor category, you can no longer take this feat.
Finally watching NGE? Good, it's a classic.
Notice anything about my avatar? :cool
And I'm excited to hear about a new PDF; in honor of it coming out, I will make... a prestige class!
Probably mixing spellshaping with Warlocks (Eldritch Blast as a spellshape attack? WIN. Full stop.), or maybe with some other piece of homebrew that I have sitting around, gathering dust.
In other words... if I get it to you before you start working on everything, would you by any chance be willing to include it as official content?
I know, I overstepped my bounds! Please, not with the hose, not with the hose!
I'll fix it this weekend--I'm technically at work right now. Don't tell my boss. Edit: This has been done online. Haven't had a chance to change the PDF yet.
Feat ideas
Armored Shaper [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Strength 13, Shaper Level 1st
Benefit: You have learned to make the exacting gestures that spellshaping requires despite hindrance from armor. Choose a spellshaping class in which you have levels. You suffer no failure chance for shaping a formula granted by that class in light armor or wielding a shield. Medium and heavy armor still impose their normal failure chances.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for all armor categories, you can no longer take this feat.
Special: If you already can ignore the failure chance for some category of armor, you gain the ability to ignore the failure chance from the next heaviest category of armor, as if you had taken this feat before.
Special: A Fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat.
Blended Teachings
Prerequisite: Shaper level 3rd, ability to ignore the failure chance for shaping in armor a formula granted by a particular class
Benefit: You have learned to combine the forms and styles granted by your spellshaping training. Any class feature or feat that allows you to ignore the failure chance for shaping a formula in armor for a particular class's formulae instead applies to formulae granted by any class.
You know, with my laptop being non-com, I'll just post my ideas for you to peruse, so that you can hopefully get some inspiration from at least one of them.
-A PrC for the Spellshape Champion: The Orion's Bow.
Advances Blustering Gale and Natural Balance; focuses around channeling BG and NB Formulae through arrows, eventually being able to make their bow into a temporary Lamen, Multishot BG formulae, and make special arrows with NB powers.
-A general PrC for Brilliant Dawn and Crushing Stone: The Desert Walker
Advances the above two Circles, gives a Burrow speed, the ability to walk normally, and Fast Healing while on sand, the ability to convert stone into sand (makes Crushing Stone maneuvers deal slashing/piercing damage), and a way to extend/strengthen their Brilliant Dawn when in a desert. Capstone could be, I don't know, creating an area of desert around themselves that appears as they stay in one place, drying up wells, withering plants, increasing temperatures, you know, the usual.
-Prince of Persia: The Prc. Let's call it the Prince of Time.
Prc focused on Eternal Moment and Unseen Impetus; uses Unseen Impetus stuff to maneuver around like a BOSS (stuff like an Ex Balancing Lorecall (essentially makes epic Balance uses accessible to a low level character.)), and other quick movement abilities (steal stuff from the Swiftblade, and go from there.)
-A feat that let's you use Reserve feats as spellshape attacks for the purpose of shaping Formulae. Just because.
-?Something? That gives you the option to "charge" your spellshape attack, a la Megaman/Metroid.
I'll post more when I have time.
Feat ideas
Armored Shaper [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Strength 13, Shaper Level 1st
Benefit: You have learned to make the exacting gestures that spellshaping requires despite hindrance from armor. Choose a spellshaping class in which you have levels. You suffer no failure chance for shaping a formula granted by that class in light armor or wielding a shield. Medium and heavy armor still impose their normal failure chances.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for all armor categories, you can no longer take this feat.
Special: If you already can ignore the failure chance for some category of armor, you gain the ability to ignore the failure chance from the next heaviest category of armor, as if you had taken this feat before.
Special: A Fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat.
Blended Teachings
Prerequisite: Shaper level 3rd, ability to ignore the failure chance for shaping in armor a formula granted by a particular class
Benefit: You have learned to combine the forms and styles granted by your spellshaping training. Any class feature or feat that allows you to ignore the failure chance for shaping a formula in armor for a particular class's formulae instead applies to formulae granted by any class.
I'm sort of edgy about opening up armored spellshaping across the board, since it's kind of the spellshape champion's thing. Bear in mind, most classes can already shape in light armor--I think the only exception is the spellsage.
The second feat, combined with a one-level dip in spellshape champion, renders the first feat somewhat redundant. Sure, it's a one-level dip, but it's the difference between spending two feats to get to heavy armor and spending only one. Plus, that one-level dip also gives you weapon proficiencies.
I know that, generally, wearing heavy armor isn't actually that big of an advantage over wearing light armor, but I still--for some reason--like the distinction. I'll wrestle with the ideas. I know my knee-jerk reaction on this one is somewhat unreasonable.
Perhaps change Blended Teachings to let you apply a single class's armored shaping to only one other class? So, if you for some reason were a Spellshape Champion/Spellsage/Elemental Adept, you could shape EITHER your Spellsage or your Elemental Adept formulae in heavy armor, but you'd have to take the feat a second time to do both?
You can already do this with 2 feats and a 1 level dip (Martial Study + Martial Study/Stance + Edgewalker Knight 1), so it's not like it's an option that hasn't been available before.
Send me the notes for what you are planning for the Anchorite, and I'll do them for you.
I mean, how hard could it be?
Hmm...
Can illusions created by Illusory Legion formula attack on their own or only perform attacks of opportunity?
Send me the notes for what you are planning for the Anchorite, and I'll do them for you.
I mean, how hard could it be?
Hmm...
I don't actually have any notes--the entire problem I'm having is that I can't figure out a decent way to replace the auras. Whatever the replacement is, it has to fit into some kind of on/off format, divided by circle. Otherwise, the recovery mechanic breaks.
The recovery mechanic already breaks (softly) if you remove the spellshape auras alone. If you're getting rid of them and replacing them with something else, just do a similar replacement with the swift action full circle component of the recovery. Or dump that component entirely.
... you know that didn't work in the movie, right?
I have an idea related to Ioun stones...
Why? Because they are awesome.
OHHEY ALMOST FORGOT TO SAY THIS.
Don, I wound up making a little class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242337) on the Giantitp forums that uses Spellshaping in one Archetype (of currently 4, soon to be five). Magician one, specifically. Figured I should mention it to you. :P
I just want to say that... wow, this looks amazing. I haven't had a chance to look it over that much yet, but what a great idea! And it is presented very well, and looks quite interesting and, at least at first glance, balanced (unlike that poorly thought-out abomination the Arcane Swordsage... ). Bravo! :clap I definitely want to check this out, and use something from it in the future (as an NPC or PC).
Looks like a fairly straightforward conversion to me, but why do you get the template without its normal level adjustment? I assume that there's a reason they left the LA on the original class.
Edit: Just looked at the level adjustment on Dry Lich. It's +5? Jeebus. Yeah, I'd also say that dropping it is not horribly broken in this case.
Just letting you know, several people have expressed interest in playing spellshapers in High Arcana (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=114.0). So you'll likely get some feedback.
Just letting you know, several people have expressed interest in playing spellshapers in High Arcana (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=114.0). So you'll likely get some feedback.
I'm one of them.
Here's some feedback: Stop making cool looking base classes, I can't pick one because too many look awesome. :shakefist
If you couldn't tell from all my comments and questions... I'm another. :PJust letting you know, several people have expressed interest in playing spellshapers in High Arcana (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=114.0). So you'll likely get some feedback.
I'm one of them.
So far Anchorite 10 is the only way to have more than one aura at a time. I understand the thought process behind that, but it really puts a damper on multiclassing into Ardent Soulshaper.Isn't there a feat that can grant you an aura? Or does that still limit you to only having one at a time?
So far Anchorite 10 is the only way to have more than one aura at a time. I understand the thought process behind that, but it really puts a damper on multiclassing into Ardent Soulshaper.
Isn't there a feat that can grant you an aura? Or does that still limit you to only having one at a time?
I'm also slightly confused as to what any of that has to do with Ardent Soulshaper. Ardent Soulshaper doesn't require that you be able to project more than one aura at once, nor does it give you any special benefits from being able to do so.
So far Anchorite 10 is the only way to have more than one aura at a time. I understand the thought process behind that, but it really puts a damper on multiclassing into Ardent Soulshaper.Isn't there a feat that can grant you an aura? Or does that still limit you to only having one at a time?
I'm also slightly confused as to what any of that has to do with Ardent Soulshaper. Ardent Soulshaper doesn't require that you be able to project more than one aura at once, nor does it give you any special benefits from being able to do so.
I think he's saying he'd like to both project 2 auras at the same time, and multiclass into ardent soulshaper. Which he can't do until after level 10.
So, I tend to avoid prestige classes that combine with non-SRD material, with the notable exception of the Tome of Battle, primarily because I don't want to drag in too many other books. I am generally of the opinion that homebrew--especially something as large as this--shouldn't also require a complete book collection. I consider the number of classes that reference spells and abilities in non-core books to be the biggest failing of this subsystem.
That said, of course, I will poke at the first two ideas, just with a slightly longer stick than usual. It doesn't help matters that the incarnum system isn't intuitive for me--though Hanako has made great strides in helping me understand it--and that I have a rather large issue with binders. (In case you're wondering, my issue is that I get too attached to individual vestiges and can't bring myself to stop binding Amon.)
The third one is an interesting idea, especially given that--by the anchorite fluff--taking levels in such a class would mean that the character was actually turning away from the goal of the anchorite class. Instead of seeking greater understanding of the self and all the different facets thereof, one chooses to focus entirely on one aspect of the soul and magnify it. Possibly harming oneself in the process...and definitely making enlightenment far more difficult.
Having just read the Ardent Soulshaper for the first time, I just have to say... Wow... Now I want to roll up one of these, and RP him as a zen-like communist. :PI'm also slightly confused as to what any of that has to do with Ardent Soulshaper. Ardent Soulshaper doesn't require that you be able to project more than one aura at once, nor does it give you any special benefits from being able to do so.
I think he's saying he'd like to both project 2 auras at the same time, and multiclass into ardent soulshaper. Which he can't do until after level 10.
Exactly, since auras are the Ardent Soulshaper's shtick and all. :P
And, for whatever reason, my brain decided to interpret that idea as far more sinister (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ixdHQj3O4) than I think you meant it.
Question. How/where should I post those two prestige classes? Should I:
(a) PM you/post here/otherwise convey to you the info, so you can edit & post;
(b) Post myself, in a thread on this forum, and you will edit as necessary using your scrumtrelescent mod powers;
(c) Post myself elsewhere, like on the main homebrew forum, and you will suggest edits while critiquing and then link to the finished product?
Next question. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6072.msg91284#msg91284), Garryl suggested that since spellshape attacks are SLAs, DR does not apply to them, and so it doesn't matter if one does piercing, one does bludgeoning, etc. I think you probably meant for DR to apply. Is that correct? If so, you may want to clarify that somewhere in the rules (or point me toward where it is already clarified, since we can't find it).
I'll be honest, I don't see a "vs." here. From what I know, 610 sounds like exactly the sort of thing that the Phyrexians would tame and use. Remember, they aren't made entirely of metal, but also of compleated flesh. And 610 sounds like the perfect way to begin compleation of the unwilling.Well, it's actually going to be more 'inspired' by 610, I'm also going to include some elements from a couple of flash games I play. Two of the raids from WarMetal Tyrant (http://www.kongregate.com/games/synapticon/tyrant) (Specifically Blightbloom (http://images.wikia.com/warmetal/images/4/4c/TRaidBlightbloom.jpg) and Miasma (http://images.wikia.com/warmetal/images/4/45/TRaidMiasma.jpg)), as well as The Breach (http://www.kongregate.com/games/BerzerkStudio/the-breach). I'm also going to take quite a few of the features from Ragnorra.
Next question. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6072.msg91284#msg91284), Garryl suggested that since spellshape attacks are SLAs, DR does not apply to them, and so it doesn't matter if one does piercing, one does bludgeoning, etc. I think you probably meant for DR to apply. Is that correct? If so, you may want to clarify that somewhere in the rules (or point me toward where it is already clarified, since we can't find it).
Wait, wait. Spells and spell-like abilities that deal types of weapon damage aren't normally subject to DR? That's...that's asinine. The intention was for DR to apply, since I assume that's how logic worked. After work today, I'll go back to the relevant spellshape attacks and note that they are subject to damage reduction. Hell, I already note that they count as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, so it should be relatively easy to slip in there.
The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.
Psionic powers were "errataed" in CPsi to also be subject to damage reduction where applicable, but nothing of the sort exists for spells or SLAs. Aside from that, pretty much only mundane weapon attacks are subject to DR.
Question. How/where should I post those two prestige classes? Should I:
(a) PM you/post here/otherwise convey to you the info, so you can edit & post;
(b) Post myself, in a thread on this forum, and you will edit as necessary using your scrumtrelescent mod powers;
(c) Post myself elsewhere, like on the main homebrew forum, and you will suggest edits while critiquing and then link to the finished product?
I'll be honest, I don't have a real preference here. Post it in whatever way is easiest and most convenient for you. Thus far, all of the spellshaping homebrew that isn't by me has been posted on GitP, and I've linked over to it in the Index. Post it in general homebrew, post it in this subforum, post it wherever.
Technically, I think board policy prevents me from using my mod powers to actually edit your posts, even though mod powers allow me to do that. So, you may get random messages from me about sentence structure, formatting, and what have you.
Sweet.Next question. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6072.msg91284#msg91284), Garryl suggested that since spellshape attacks are SLAs, DR does not apply to them, and so it doesn't matter if one does piercing, one does bludgeoning, etc. I think you probably meant for DR to apply. Is that correct? If so, you may want to clarify that somewhere in the rules (or point me toward where it is already clarified, since we can't find it).
Wait, wait. Spells and spell-like abilities that deal types of weapon damage aren't normally subject to DR? That's...that's asinine. The intention was for DR to apply, since I assume that's how logic worked. After work today, I'll go back to the relevant spellshape attacks and note that they are subject to damage reduction. Hell, I already note that they count as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, so it should be relatively easy to slip in there.
I'm just warning you, I'm already cogitating about how to combine Spellshaping with Rituals. It will happen.
Posted the Azure Ascetic... except for the flavor stuff at the end. I kind of suck at writing that stuff, and would love DonQ's input.
Azure Ascetic
I'll be honest, I don't see a "vs." here. From what I know, 610 sounds like exactly the sort of thing that the Phyrexians would tame and use. Remember, they aren't made entirely of metal, but also of compleated flesh. And 610 sounds like the perfect way to begin compleation of the unwilling.Well, it's actually going to be more 'inspired' by 610, I'm also going to include some elements from a couple of flash games I play. Two of the raids from WarMetal Tyrant (http://www.kongregate.com/games/synapticon/tyrant) (Specifically Blightbloom (http://images.wikia.com/warmetal/images/4/4c/TRaidBlightbloom.jpg) and Miasma (http://images.wikia.com/warmetal/images/4/45/TRaidMiasma.jpg)), as well as The Breach (http://www.kongregate.com/games/BerzerkStudio/the-breach). I'm also going to take quite a few of the features from Ragnorra.
Posted the Azure Ascetic... except for the flavor stuff at the end. I kind of suck at writing that stuff, and would love DonQ's input.
Interesting stuff, but my gut says OP for reasons I'm still puzzling out. Maybe it's the mass sharing of soulmelds with Soulmeld Projection? (Does that ability include chakra binds? If so, does it include the cutting-off of magic item slots?) I dunno.I'll clarify that you don't get the chakra binds, just the base effect.
Improved Spellshape Infusion can give a lot of essentia. Spellshapers generally have more readied formulae than martial adepts have maneuvers, and have an easier time recovering them, too. Using this ability once per round for a whole fight isn't that hard, even if you're blowing mid-high level formulae on it. 4-7 extra essentia is a lot.I'll drop it to half formula level instead.
Greater Aura Investment needs to clarify the shaper level boost. I originally read it as granting a +1/essentia boost to your formule, but on rereading it, I think it's actually just the flat +1 that ability gives to the essentia capacity. It's supposed to be a bonus equal to the essentia invested, right? If so, it should be clarified.That I think is actually one of the most poorly-worded class features I've ever written, at the very least by crap-density. I'll try again.
Based wholly on my meager understanding of incarnum, Azure Ascetic looks interesting. I have to agree with pretty much every point Garryl's raised, mind you.
Soulmeld Projection: How much essentia is effectively invested in the projected soulmeld when determining the bonuses it grants? It's not actually shaping the soulmeld for everyone else, it's just granting the benefits of it, right? So it should grant the benefits of however much essentia you have invested, then?
Hrm, good points. I'll probably just switch it to class level, since it's replacing class-level-dependent abilities.
In terms of what happens if you pick up actual Druid/Ranger levels...what happens if a Ranger takes Druid levels? That.
That would not be too unbalanced.
And, you know what? I was pretty much making the Aspects you have as an ACF for the Anchorite.
As an ACF for the Anchorite.
Are you also cool with taking Spellshape Aura for a circle you don't know any formulae (or even the spellshape) from? Again, the current wording leaves it open since you only need Circle Focus. Not necessarily a problem, just seems like it may be unintended.
Also, Mastered Formula does not require you to know the mastered formula. I don't know if it's intended or not, so I'm just bringing it up before I forget.
Hey DonQ, any other issues with Azure Ascetic? If not, I'll move on to the next one.
Part of me thinks that spellshapers should be able to take reserve feats, and then get the ability to Shape Formula with them.
If you want, I could make a 5 level PrC based around this idea...
Got two savant ACFs up. I'll update the PDF with the feat changes from yesterday as soon as I get home from work.
I'm contemplating making a Paraelemental Adept (Smoke)/ Darkened One (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=878.msg5328#msg5328) possibly Master Reshaper. That would be interesting....
Using a breath weapon is typically a standard action.
I will say, as I look at what I've come up with thus far, that the most hilarious epic build for a spellshaper would be Impulse Mage 10/Unnamed Prismatic Prestige 10/Chaos Shaper 10. What are you even doing at that point? Randomly occurring formulae, cumulative percentage chance of STUFF happening, and a 1d8 roll every time you hit someone to find out what you hit them with. Bonus points if you take those random teleportation impulse mage feats.Because knowing what you're character will actually do is overrated. :whistle
Because Cirno is useless?
I can't tell if that's a correction of my current clause, or you telling me how nonlethal damage actually works. I was looking at the Nonlethal Substitution feat, which treats nonlethal damage and energy damage as mutually exclusive things.That doesn't really make sense... Nonlethal damage isn't really its own damage type, is it? Like Fire/Piercing/etc? It's just a less lethal form of some other kind of damage... or so I thought.
The damage dealt by a spellshape attack or formula modified by this feat is still treated as if it were damage of the type normally dealt by the spellshape attack or formula, and is subject to any abilities or effects normally.
Nonlethal actually is a completely different type of damage...
Just like Vile damage is; they aren't modifiers to a given type of damage, they are their own thing.
Now, that clause is totally fine, and awesome.
But remember, nonlethal Substitution on a Fireball let's you deal the full nonlethal to a Fire Elemental; does it make sense?
No. But dems da rulez, mann.
I really feel like I haven't been doing anything to aid the GLORIOUS SPELLSHAPING DIRECTIVE, so if you want to off-load anything onto me, I'm all for it.
My homebrewing urges are getting harder to put off each and every day.
Squee!
Is there anything in Prismatic Formulae that stops you form combining different kinds of formulae or using ones that don't make sense being carried on a spellshape attack? I don't see anything stopping you from taking minor formulae or standalone major formulae, but it does make it so they'd all be carried onto your prismatic spellshape attack as part of the prismatic formula.
Wow, you could do some crazy things like this. Sharing personal buffs at the cost of a small bit of damage is just the tip of the iceberg (or fireball, or lightning bolt, or planar rift, or poison cloud, or sonic boom, or corrosive spray, or two at once).
Interesting. Iridescent Curse functions sort of like a minor formula, but as it isn't a formula it only follows the SLA rules, not the formula rules. Among other things, you can have multiple instances of it active at once. As if one of them wasn't going to be hard enough to keep track of already.
Please define "walking speed" in Hypnotic Hues. Also, you can probably see them, too, so you'll have to save against it as well most likely.
For Chromatic Veil, see Iridescent Curse, but in reverse. Also, what's Prismatic Mist?
Opalescent Body seems more like a capstone ability than 9th level. Immunity to 3 energy types and 4 nasty debuffs is strong. The kind of strong that makes a high point to leave the class on.
Wait, minor formulae can have multiples? I did not know that.
Could you please put a reference (PHB2, or "found in Player's Handbook 2", or something like that) with the mention of Prismatic Mist so it's obvious where it's from?
When you roll twice for Prismatic Blast (8), do you deal damage once as both damage types or double damage (once for each damage type). What happens if you roll the same hue twice? What happens if you reroll 8 twice?
Question regarding prismatic blast and the Force (violet) hue. When is it determined whether or not the spellshape is a Force effect, and thus whether or not it has a 50% chance of not affecting incorporeal creatures? What happens if you get two hues (one of which is violet and one of which is another hue) when you're attacking an incorporeal creature (does the 50% ineffectiveness chance apply to the aspect containing the non-force component)?
<Madness>You know... now that you mention it, I remember a really old game (2nd Edition, when we made up more rules than we looked up) where I played a tinker gnome alchemist. The DM thought this was hilarious, and made up a bunch of tables to determine what happened whenver I tried to make something. Most of what happened was just ridiculous (flowers growing out of peoples' hair, etc), but there were a few spectacular effects (not quite Supernova, but like that, usually beneficial to the party).
A chromatic wall set to materialize in a space occupied by a creature is disrupted, and the formula shaped into it is expended with no effect.Maybe let the creatures in the wall's space make a Reflex save and/or move to the nearest space not occupied by the wall or something? I'd hate to lose a turn's worth of actions due to an invisible creature I wasn't aware of... or a fly. (Spaces are 5' squares. Very small creatures occupy spaces, even if the physical space that they take up within them is very small. Very small insects are Fine creatures.)
Maybe let the creatures in the wall's space make a Reflex save and/or move to the nearest space not occupied by the wall or something? I'd hate to lose a turn's worth of actions due to an invisible creature I wasn't aware of... or a fly. (Spaces are 5' squares. Very small creatures occupy spaces, even if the physical space that they take up within them is very small. Very small insects are Fine creatures.)
By the way, how does the chromatic wall interact with objects (including terrain)? Can the wall project through solid objects, like variations in the height of the terrain, or floors and ceilings, or actual walls? How about passing through an arrow slit? If an unattended object passes through the wall, is it completely unaffected (current wording only uses "creatures")?
The wall can be made smaller and can be shaped to accommodate variations in surrounding terrain, but it is not otherwise shapeable. The wall must begin within 30 feet of your location, but can extend beyond that distance. The wall cannot extend through solid objects and is immobile once created.
Can the wall extend from a point within 30' to a point outside your line of sight? The wall may not be shapeable, but how can it be oriented?
And I'm thinking you're right, Garryl. I'm probably going to drop the elemental shapers as elemental companions, but I'm not deleting that post quite yet. First, I'm going to bite the bullet and figure out a way to just have the elemental adept use my revised elementals...and I need some of the wording in that post for other changes that would have to be made in order to deal with that.
Well, the elementals and paraelementals are basically going to work like their current Elemental Shaper equivalents do. I might actually flat-out replace the Elemental Body ability with something, since my revised elementals already have a lot of those benefits as baseline abilities. I don't yet know what, though.
In terms of the last base class idea, I haven't figured it out entirely yet, and it's actually the lowest priority item on the to-do list. On Giant in the Playground, someone suggested a spellshaper that gains its abilities through demonic pacts or something similar. So I want to play around with that a bit, but I haven't figured out exactly where to go. Part of the problem is that I try to avoid alignment-restricted base classes. It might end up being tossed, but I'm not going to decide that until I work through all the things above it.
Do you want me to take a swing at it?
I'm thinking something kinda like Infernals from Exalted; they are essentially taught how to wield their powers through Elder Evils, but aren't policed too heavily.
Think of it less as "hurr hurr, i summon demon, make him give me stuff." and more "OK, so I fell for it that one time. Jeez."
I would have them get the ability to mess with the elemental make-up of their Spell-shape attacks, kinda like an Eldritch Blast (actually, I could just steal from there), nefarious Pact-making stuff, and finally a place for my Disintegration energy Spellshape Attack (essentially, it is untyped... and if you die from it, you are completely disintegrated.)
Also, chance for wings and tentacles and other freakish things (common, Spellshape natural attacks. You know you want them.)
Sound like a deal, friend?
(Extends a clawed, noxious smelling hand.)
Pacts don't have to be only with demons and devils and fey. Angels, Archons, Inevitables, and Slaads (maybe not Slaads) can work just as well. Plus, see the Binder class. If that isn't alignment-free pact-making, I don't know what is.
Elemental Leadership
Prerequisites: Elemental Companion, shaper level 6th
Benefits: You attract a throng of minor elementals, ready to serve you. This functions as the leadership feat, except that all followers you attract must be of the Elemental type, or be Outsiders with one of the Fire, Air, Water, or Earth subtypes. Treat Air, Earth, Fire, and Water Elementals and related paraelementals as characters of a level equal to their CR for the purpose of determining how many of them you can attract as followers.
In addition, you can choose to attract an Elemental Shaper in place of your Elemental Companion. The Elemental Shaper functions as described below (put your big fat ACF's text here).
Special: You can benefit from only one of Leadership, Elemental Leadership, or Undead Leadership at any given time. Elemental Leadership counts as the Leadership feat for the purpose of interacting with other feats and options (including qualifying for them).
Special: You gain a +2 bonus to your leadership score for the purpose of attracting followers with the exact same elemental subtype(s) as your elemental Companion. You suffer a -2 penalty to your Leadership score for the purpose of attracting followers with elemental subtypes that oppose each of your Elemental Companion's elemental subtypes (Air opposes Earth, Fire opposes Water).
Cool, no? Probably better to split it into two feats in a chain (one for the follower elementals, then another for converting the companion to a shaper) if it's still too much, since everyone knows exactly how balanced Leadership is, right?
Speaking of Spellshaping + Binding, DonQ are you going to include any of the stuff written by other people? Or is that for a spellshaping splatbook? :P
Part of what made me choose my element for my elemental adept was the earth elemental as opposed to others that I could have gotten with a focus on Crushing Stone. I'll wait to see what you come up with. :)
Oh, don't worry, I know about all the different things that you can make a pact with...
Actually, a Slaad pact would be hilarious as hell.
Everyone else gives a thematic set of formulae, while Slaad give you...
Well, did you see my post about UTTER RANDOMNESS? :D
Kidding, kidding; though my write-up will have a rather unorthodox way of using Formulae (that's how I've done every single ToB base class I've ever written, and some people think that at least one of them is excellent, so...)
Hey, I think I've asked this before, but I'll ask again -- are you planning on doing the quasielementals? Pretty pls?
Well, I was referring to stuff like the Nord's Blade (won't use; kinda complicated, and very powerful; doesn't fit too well with pacts, anyway).
I was actually thinking that the pact would give you a set of packets, with a sort of theme to them; in essence, each packet consists of a couple of Major Formulae and a couple of Minor Formulae. Once you've used "up" a packet (i.e., you've used up around the slots that were allotted to that packet), you lose that packet until you use up another packet or two.
Or maybe I'll just go ahead and make it a normal Spellshaper, but with a focus towards summoning (think of it; a twisted Natural Balance where it summons Demons/Angels/Aberrations, while buffing their attacks with Minor Formulae, while he himself supplies the artillery.)
EDIT: Maybe combo that with the battlefield control to get someone who is trying to "bless" the area fights take place in; so first difficult terrain and other similar things are ignored by allies, and then give them bonuses while in those areas... think Zerg and creep. Angelic creep.
Idea! Why not make a teleporting/planeshifing PrC? That way, you don't need to make an entire circle, and there's no need for a spellshape attack.
...
In fact...
Excuse me, I'm now working on something.... I think the base ECL for it will be 7, allowing...
...wait, ECL? Suddenly, vaguely worried...
Incidentally, the porting of things into the Codex I PDF is taking about as much time as I figured it would. Don't hold your breath for a pre-Sunday release--though stranger things have happened.
Solid and Fluid are referenced in the elemental descriptions but you aren't explaining them in the intro posts for some reason?
Good luck with Ice Body and Smoke Body. I'm not sure what abilities would be appropriate. :???
Don't be. Typically, a PrC is aimed to be entered after ECL 5, having all prereqs obtained by then. This is going to be intended to have all prereqs done at level 7, so people can enter it at level 8. That way, I can save myself some trouble and just write the teleportation formulae from level 4-9, saving me some balance problems and that hassle.
Aw.
Ice: Melt, becoming fluid instead of solid for some time?
Smoke: Leave behind a trail of fumes that functions as a wall of smoke (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20031017a) spell?
Ohhh, the Ice one sounds interesting.
Question: A solid elemental changes size due to the Change Size feat. Does it gain/lose bonus hit points?
Question: A solid elemental changes size due to the Change Size feat. Does it gain/lose bonus hit points?
Yup. The bonus hit points of a creature with the solid subtype are based on its size, rather than being defined separately for each different statblock.
Undoubtedly, this ruling will come back to bite me in the ass.
Advancement (Ex): At 9th level, in addition to the increases to Constitution, Intelligence, and Charisma gained by all elemental companions, an ice, magma, or ooze companion gains +2 Dexterity
At 15th level, in addition to the increases to Constitution and Charisma gained by all elemental companions, an ice, magma, or ooze companion gains +4 Dexterity.
At 19th level, in addition to the increases to Intelligence and Charisma gained by all elemental companions, an ice, magma, or ooze companion gains +2 Dexterity.
It'll cause extra bookkeeping, but I guess that's okay.
Hooray, now I can finally try and decide if I want an Earth Elemental or a Magma Elemental. Hmmmm...
Elemental companions never gain a Charisma bonus in the Elemental Companion writeup
Earthbreaker
Crushing Stone (Major) [Earth]
Level: Elemental adept 2, impulse mage 2, spellsage 2, spellshape champion 2
Prerequisite: One Crushing Stone formula
Shaping Action: 1 standard action
Range: Rockslam attack
Target: One creature
Area: 10-foot-radius spread, centered on target
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: As spellshape
As a part of shaping this formula, you make a rockslam attack that deals an extra 2d8 points of damage. If it hits, the ground fractures and cracks in a 10-foot-radius spread centered on your target, becoming difficult terrain. In addition, your target must make a Fortitude save or be immobilized for 1 round. Though the immobilization ends after 1 round, the difficult terrain is permanent and does not move with the target.
If your target is in the air when affected by this formula, no difficult terrain is created. However, you still deal extra damage, and your target must still make a Fortitude save or be immobilized.
Don't forget the necromental template, from Libris Mortis. Fun times. :evillaughAnd the excremental! Don't forget that lovely gem! :love
Don't forget the necromental template, from Libris Mortis. Fun times. :evillaugh
And the excremental! Don't forget that lovely gem! :love
Working on the PrC idea. Not having ideas for flavor abilities- I think most of the power will come from the formulae I'm writing up. I'm thinking "Baleful Translocation" to start...
I look forward to finding out where this is going.
Oh God. You're writing a Carmen Sandiego prestige class.
Oh yes! Found only in the nether regions of the Elemental Plane of Flesh (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53869)! Just change the type on this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2949455#post2949455). :evillaughAnd the excremental! Don't forget that lovely gem! :love
I'm...going to hope that this isn't what I think it is.
Nah. Teleportation and dimensional stuff, man. It's what's missing.
Oh yes! Found only in the nether regions of the Elemental Plane of Flesh (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53869)! Just change the type on this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2949455#post2949455). :evillaugh
Nah. Teleportation and dimensional stuff, man. It's what's missing.
Interesting. There are technically bits of teleportation and dimensional travel strewn around the place, but nothing focused on it. Let's see where you go with this one.
Thus far, the only formulae that have been immediate actions were minor formulae. Eternal Moment has a few of those lying around.
Er...sure?
I mean, given that the spells that are enhanced vary by plane, you'd have to come up with a list of every formula that a given Enhanced Magic plane would modify. And I must admit very little experience with planar traits.
But, unless someone gives me a reason that this is a horrible idea, I see no reason to rule against it.
Enhanced magic usually just affects a descriptor of spells. So the Plane of Fire enhances [Fire] spells, the plane of Shadow [Shadow], ect.
A blanket "If a formula is shaped on a plane with the Enhanced Magic trait and has the appropriate descriptor, it gains the benefit of the equivilant Metashaping feat, possibly exceeding the normal limit on the sum of formula level and degrees of metashaping. Furthermore, if a formula is shaped on a plane with the Impeded Magic trait and has the appropriate descriptor, the shaper must succeed on a Spellcraft check, as though it were a spell of the same level."
Ahh, gotcha. I was working off of the SRD description of the trait, since I don't think I've ever been in a campaign that left the Prime Material. This makes a lot more sense.
Sounds good to me. I'll note that the clause on Impeded Magic is unnecessary, since the planar traits are listed as affecting "spells and spell-like abilities." Guess what formulae are?
Don't forget the necromental template, from Libris Mortis. Fun times. :evillaugh
Actually, the necromental template still works. Just change the natural armor increase to a +2 profane bonus to AC and remove the "Charisma score changes to 1" bit. Otherwise, your fluid elementals will be very confused.
Bauglir just damned us all. Film at eleven.
Well, I'm currently at 26/48...but my sister's going to be here for the latter half of the week. So we'll see.
Bauglir damned us all by suggesting that the solution to my conflicted emotions about out-of-combat magic for spellshapers could be solved by means of skill tricks. Which now means that I'm coming up with three out-of-combat spell-like abilities for each circle, which will be gated with prerequisites and purchased with skill points.
The actual mechanics arestealingborrowing heavily from some of Hanako's homebrew, and basically pan out as follows. When you first purchase the lowest-level ability--which will require that you know the spellshape attack from the relevant circle--you can use it once per day. Once you purchase the mid-level ability--which will require that you know at least two formulae from the relevant circle and have a shaper level of at least 7th--you'll be able to use that once per day and the lowest-level ability three times per day. When you finally purchase the highest-level ability--which will require that you know at least four formulae from the relevant circle and have a shaper level of at least 13th--you'll be able to use that ability once per day, the mid-level ability three times per day, and the lowest-level ability at-will. Obviously, you'll have to have the lowest-level ability in order to purchase the mid-level ability, and you'll have to have the mid-level ability in order to purchase the highest-level ability.
I'm trying like hell to only give things that wouldn't be primarily used in combat, but I'm almost certain that some will, technically, have in-combat usage. For example, I'm planning on giving Searing Flame a version of the control flames power, which is cool for the whole controlling fire thing...but can technically be used to control fire onto people. At the same time, controlling fire is so much of a thing that they should be able to do that I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
Edit: Having said all that, I'm also toying with distributing the out-of-combat abilities through feats, rather than skill points. Taking one feat would grant you access to a single circle's set of abilities...but you'd have to meet the prerequisites in order to use the higher-level ones, as well as to get the extra daily uses of the lower-level ones.
So... Sorta like PF's Equipment Trick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/equipment-trick-combat) feat? Where you get access to a bunch of abilities, if you have the right feat/skills?
Also, 13 formulae thought out for the teleport-themed PrC I'm working on. Should I go for a few more, or just finish those, format it, and post it?
I like the idea, like it a lot. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :D
Probably not. The more that I think about it, the more that I prefer the skill trick setup. It just means that I'm going to have to avoid anything too game-changing. Which is actually what I want to do anyway, so that works out nicely.
Well, you're eight formulae short of standard circle size, but--given that it's a prestige class, rather than a standard circle--I don't think that's actually a problem. Go with your gut.
EDIT: Noticed something in Searing Flame's thread. Searing Blast (a Minor formula) has a shaping time of 1 standard. That... Might need to be fixed.
Here's a question.
A first level Elemental Adept picks Earth as his element, and thus gains +1 shaper level to spellshape attacks.
Rockslam uses Shaper level for BAB. Is his effective BAB for Rockslam 1 for being first level or is it 2?
Edit: Also, how do you determine which spellshape attacks/ formulae are spell-like abilities and which ones aren't?
Edit again: Things that add caster level to spell-like abilities won't actually have any effect on formulae will they since formulae reference Shaper Level instead of Caster Level?
As described under Spellshape Attacks, the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance apply to spellshape attacks and arcane formulae. However, effects that would improve your caster level do not increase your shaper level for any pupose other than overcoming spell resistance.
Arcane formulae, by contrast, are involved spell-like or supernatural effects that are temporarily expended after use.
I await your ruling on how the bonus shaper level intersacts with spellshape attacks.
If all formulae are spell-like abilities, why does the rules of spellshaping say this.QuoteArcane formulae, by contrast, are involved spell-like or supernatural effects that are temporarily expended after use.
[old man groan]I'm going to have to put that line into each one of those spellshape attacks...[/old man groan]
I'm also trying to figure out an elegant wording on this one, so don't expect anything immediately.
...
"you may use your shaper level in place of your base attack bonus on attack rolls with lashing zephyr (but not when determining how many attacks you can make), up to a maximum of your Hit Dice."
There. Simple, elegant, and effective.
Aww, you're going to kill my extra attacks too? :p
Random suggestion: a PrC focused on spamming lower level formulae and simple spellshape attacks, trading off access to higher level ones for the ability to use multiple low-level ones at once.
Hm, strange interaction there - there's a slight incentive to multiclass for 2 levels, since your class feature will then apply to your attack rolls. Probably outweighed by slowed formulae known progression and other spellshape attacks, but still. You might phrase it as, "Your base shaper level," if you want to create that term, or else just, "Your shaper level, as calculated purely from class levels (with no other modifications, such as an Elemental Adept's Devoted Adept ability)".
I wouldn't exactly call it an incentive--your attack bonus still won't be greater than your character level. That's like saying that a warblade has an incentive to multiclass into barbarian because it won't lower his base attack bonus.That's fair, I suppose, but there is a slight difference. In this case, it allows you to utilize a resource you weren't able to before - that isn't true in the case of the warblade and barbarian. It's only a very slight resource, since it affects only one school, but it's the sort of bleeding-edge optimization you get in builds trying to push tier 3s and lower to their limits.
At least, that's how I see it.
Wait, when did the physical spellshapes start messing with your BaB? Didn't they used to just give a bonus (1/2 your SL, I think) to your attack rolls?
Edit: Shouldn't a character with a high BaB be more accurate than a low BaB character? That's still the case with the touch spellshapes, regardless of SL, why should it be different with the physical ones?
That's fair, I suppose, but there is a slight difference. In this case, it allows you to utilize a resource you weren't able to before - that isn't true in the case of the warblade and barbarian. It's only a very slight resource, since it affects only one school, but it's the sort of bleeding-edge optimization you get in builds trying to push tier 3s and lower to their limits.
Wait, when did the physical spellshapes start messing with your BaB? Didn't they used to just give a bonus (1/2 your SL, I think) to your attack rolls?
Edit: Shouldn't a character with a high BaB be more accurate than a low BaB character? That's still the case with the touch spellshapes, regardless of SL, why should it be different with the physical ones?
Yeah, my original method of dealing with it was to give you a bonus equal to 1/2 your shaper level on attack rolls with that spellshape attack. As Bauglir pointed out at the time, though, this meant that, if your base attack bonus was medium or higher, you ended up being more accurate than a full-BAB class. For example, a twentieth-level earth-devoted elemental adept would have an attack bonus of 26 + Dexterity + any other modifiers.
My solution to this shenanigannery was to just have you use shaper level in place of base attack bonus. However, as you've pointed out, this has its own problems in terms of classes with different base attack bonuses being equally accurate.
I'm not really happy with the "use shaper level in place of base attack bonus" solution, but I also recognize that outdoing full-BAB classes in the attack bonus department is kind of a kick in the balls. I'll try to come up with a better solution to this one.
Touch attacks with poor BaB are still more likely to hit than a regular full BaB attack against almost every opponent in the book (incorporeal creatures, Wilders, and VoP Monks are just about the only exceptions, since even very dodgy enemies usually have a few points of armor or natural armor bonuses). Beware of making a double standard about accuracy.
What feats would you say should be required for the teleportation PrC I'm working on? Something fluffy, I'd say, since there's plenty of power for it already, and it should have a tax...
Stride works. Here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251466).
Regarding the accuracy double-standard - remember that the normal attacks typically have a die size one higher, and ignore SR. They already have advantages to compete with near-automatic hits, even though I agree that they need some sort of to-hit bonus to keep up (since those advantages don't mean anything if you flub the attack roll routinely).
I like the concept. :)
For determining uses per day/ incantation level do you use your shaper level as a whole or shaper level for that specific circle?
Some names, if you decide you want them.
Feat: Spellshape Incanter
SF Least: Induce Pyre
SF Lesser: Quench Pyre
SF Greater: Pyrewalking
If the subject moves, the snesor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.
Looks good. Crushing Stone's divinatory qualities aren't what you'd expect from the circle of rock, but it works quite well.
QuoteIf the subject moves, the snesor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.
Small typo in Wave Sight.
Don't incantations need effective spell or formula levels?
Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that you're keeping us in the loop. I wasn't complaining, just giving non-helpful feedback.
I'm not sure how I feel about Crushing Stone being all divinationy. It isn't a bad way to go, it just probably has something to do with me being all meh about divination. I was hoping for gaining the Solid type and smashing things I guess. :P
The fixed percentage on Will of Stone feels kind of arbitrary. Especially when I can this happening when you can use it at-will:
1. Try to make a door
2. Fail percentage chance, door won't move
3. Try to make a door that moves.
etc....
Edit: Funny thing about 130 cubic feet. That's only slightly over five feet on each side.
I suppose that, with enough time, you could technically build a fortress.
...have I made a terrible mistake? I mean, it does take until 13th level for it to be at-will...and, even then, that's six seconds per 5-foot-cube of fortress....and given that ice castle is a 7th level spell...
Heck no it's not overpowered to be able to manipulate stone at 13th level. Come on... Look at Wall of Stone, Wall of Iron, Fabricate, etc. Those are all way more "broken" than this, and I don't really think most DMs would have a problem with those, either, unless you decided to break the crap out of wealth by level with them, or something. And even if you do that, it means you're not out saving the Princess, or whatever. So there is a trade-off. As in real life, Time is more valuable than Money, and this becomes even more true the more powerful you are. ;)
Also, any reason these abilities are on a daily basis, unlike other formulae that are all per encounter?
How bad of an idea would it be to give most spellshaping classes one free set of incantations?
I say "most" because I was thinking that the spellsage would eventually get the set of incantations for every circle to which it has access.
I really don't know. I would be quite a power bump, because of gaining some utility for free. On the other hand, incantations are very cool.
The spellsage is quite strong. Equivalent of seven feats would make him even stronger.
I'd rather give incantations for free to the Anchorite (he needs it), Spellshape Paragon ACF, add the Spellshape Incanter feat to the savant's bonus feats list and give the Impulse Mage ability to receive each day Spellshape Incanter tied to random known circle.
The spellsage is going to be completely rewritten in the revision. Ground-up. Same with the impulse mage.
I'm not exactly sure how the anchorite "needs" incantations. With the swap to aspected meditant, it's going to be a pretty solid chassis.
I expect most of these issues will be with the original spells rather than their implementations as invocations. I'm still gonna bug you about it. If you took the time to write it all out, I'm also going to expect you to fix their problems.
... Speaking of which, was there any reason you didn't just say "as the xyz spell, except as noted," especially for the ones you didn't make any major changes to?
My reaction was exactly as Zappa's song: "No not now (http://radio-vienna.blogspot.com/2012/04/frank-zappa-ship-arriving-too-late-to.html)". I'm in the middle of campaign with my crazy cool Invoking Battle Spellsage and, with forthcoming revision, he'll became obsolete. Aww. On the other hand, I'm longing to see revised versions.
Good point, but easier access to incantations fulfills anchorite's theme.
I didn't realize Elemental Adepts were getting access to more circles. That will make things more difficult when it comes to formula choices, with four circles I had a really hard time getting everything sorted out.
Then again, I guess you don't have to take formulae from every circle you have access to.
Elemental Travel needs a planar function, otherwise an Elemental Adept brought back through Elemental Rebirth is stuck on his elemental plane. I'm not sure how necessary the rest of it is balance wise.
Thing is, it's mostly a flavor thing. There are hardly any mechanical benefits. Much like the Earth subtype, or Augmented (Whatever).
There are really very few feats or prestige classes it truly qualifies you for, in the grand scheme of things. Most of the things it qualifies you for, you already get through DhA levels anyway (such as the dragon wings or dragon tail feats), and if your DM won't let you retrain those feats later on when you get the abilities from the class, then you're out of luck.
Besides, if a DfA or similar class can access any of those things at early levels, I don't see why a DhA shouldn't.
Just my two-cents.
There are really very few feats or prestige classes it truly qualifies you for, in the grand scheme of things. Most of the things it qualifies you for, you already get through DhA levels anyway (such as the dragon wings or dragon tail feats), and if your DM won't let you retrain those feats later on when you get the abilities from the class, then you're out of luck.
Besides, if a DfA or similar class can access any of those things at early levels, I don't see why a DhA shouldn't.
Just my two-cents.
I didn't say it could do a lot, just that it could qualify you for something. :p
All you need for Entangling Exhalation is a breath weapon, right? So that's not really an issue.There are really very few feats or prestige classes it truly qualifies you for, in the grand scheme of things. Most of the things it qualifies you for, you already get through DhA levels anyway (such as the dragon wings or dragon tail feats), and if your DM won't let you retrain those feats later on when you get the abilities from the class, then you're out of luck.
Besides, if a DfA or similar class can access any of those things at early levels, I don't see why a DhA shouldn't.
Just my two-cents.
I didn't say it could do a lot, just that it could qualify you for something. :p
True, but--as VennDygrem pointed out--there's very little brokenness in getting it early. Especially since the Exhaled Barrier feat won't work with formulae, which would have been the most concerning combo. Entangling Exhalation is still somewhat concerning, but I'm going to roll with it unless it proves to actually be truly problematic.
There are really very few feats or prestige classes it truly qualifies you for, in the grand scheme of things. Most of the things it qualifies you for, you already get through DhA levels anyway (such as the dragon wings or dragon tail feats), and if your DM won't let you retrain those feats later on when you get the abilities from the class, then you're out of luck.
Besides, if a DfA or similar class can access any of those things at early levels, I don't see why a DhA shouldn't.
Just my two-cents.
I didn't say it could do a lot, just that it could qualify you for something. :p
True, but--as VennDygrem pointed out--there's very little brokenness in getting it early. Especially since the Exhaled Barrier feat won't work with formulae, which would have been the most concerning combo. Entangling Exhalation is still somewhat concerning, but I'm going to roll with it unless it proves to actually be truly problematic.
All you need for Entangling Exhalation is a breath weapon, right? So that's not really an issue.
You misunderstand me. I'm 100% for getting it at first level, I was just making a point.
Trying like hell to come up with a new name for spellshape champion. God, I'm bad at naming things.
To give you an idea of how bad I am at naming, the candidate currently in the lead is "thaumahos" (plural "thaumahoi"), a portmanteau of the Greek words for "miracle" (thauma) and "gladiator" (monomahos).
Any suggestions for this one?
Trying like hell to come up with a new name for spellshape champion. God, I'm bad at naming things.
To give you an idea of how bad I am at naming, the candidate currently in the lead is "thaumahos" (plural "thaumahoi"), a portmanteau of the Greek words for "miracle" (thauma) and "gladiator" (monomahos).
Any suggestions for this one?
Formulon, though that sounds more like some kind of monster.
Arcanomach Champion sounds more like a PrC. I'm thinking melee based time manipulation.
Do it piecemeal so it doesn't seem so daunting.
What if she's multiclassed into Paladin, for reasons? ;)
So what are the requirements to use a Spellheart item? For example, if I'm playing a multi-classed spellshaper, and buy a Spellheart item with a 3rd level formula in it, but my shaper level is only 3, can I use the formula in the item? What if I am not even a spellshaper?Based on a similar question I had a while ago with Crown of Searing Flames-style items*, these should all work just fine. The Spellheart item description takes care of the stuff that most classes specify (recovery method for instance, which is a non-thing for these) and sets the SL and DC, as far as I can tell. The gp cost should keep them from being used casually before they're level-appropriate abilities to have, I think. I'm no DonQuixote, so this obviously not an official reply, but just an educated guess.
Finally finished perusing the remaining incantations. Didn't see any problems, except that this makes spellshaping too damn cool.
So what are the requirements to use a Spellheart item? For example, if I'm playing a multi-classed spellshaper, and buy a Spellheart item with a 3rd level formula in it, but my shaper level is only 3, can I use the formula in the item? What if I am not even a spellshaper?Based on a similar question I had a while ago with Crown of Searing Flames-style items*, these should all work just fine. The Spellheart item description takes care of the stuff that most classes specify (recovery method for instance, which is a non-thing for these) and sets the SL and DC, as far as I can tell. The gp cost should keep them from being used casually before they're level-appropriate abilities to have, I think. I'm no DonQuixote, so this obviously not an official reply, but just an educated guess.
*The answer I got was that you could learn something even if it was too high level for you to learn normally, because the wording bypasses the normal formula-learning rules. Again, the gp cost should keep it balanced - I was only able to do this because of a +4 LA putting my wealth far ahead of my shaper level.
This is correct. Spellheart Weapons are actually intended primarily so that non-spellshapers can stab with magic.Iiiinteresting... Thanks. :D
Edit: More questions: So if I'm a spellshaper, and I have a spellheart weapon, can I use my own formulae through that weapon while channeling its spellshape attack? So let's say I have a spellheart weapon with a 1st level Searing Flames formula in it (let's say Smoking Cloud). I also know some other Searing Flames formulae, like Impact. Can I shape Impact through my spellheart weapon while channeling my fireblast spellshape attack (derived from the weapon) through it?
To be more specific, my character is a dragonheart adept who can't yet normally channel spellshape attacks through his weapons. So this could potentially give him the ability to shape formula through a spellshape attack while his breath weapon is recharging.
Since the spellshape weapon gives me knowledge of a formula from that circle, and access to the circle's spellshape attack, I could also use it to fulfill the prerequisites of learning other formulae, like say from a Crown of Searing Flames, right?
Corrosive Touch has an ability that's specifically useful in combat, which is odd considering the goal. While the level you get it at means you'll rarely be encountering non-magical armor on any foes you care about, it might be a good idea to remove that use just to make it fit the concept of incantations better.
Rite of Return provides a get out of death free card under limited circumstances. That's fine, but it's also a combat buff since it means you suffer no consequences from a death. You might add a 1 minute delay between death and resurrection to resolve this, since that should take you out of combat and still allow you to return in a timely fashion from a character's perspective.
Invade Mind doesn't go against the goals, it's just insanely good. This is a consequence of modify memory, but you might want to institute a limit on how often it can be used on a single target since the optimal first use is to implant a memory of yourself being hired to perform some magical healing or enchanting service on your target (making every further use of this ability expected and thereby making everyone you can get to fail a single Will save your eternal mind slave).
Fortify Mind provides an excellent combat buff in the form of immunity to mind-affecting effects. Since its duration is 24 hours, I'm not giving it a pass on being non-combat like Illuminating Gaze. You may wish to remove that immunity and leave just the immunity to divinations, which isn't nearly as impressive in combat.
Freedom of the Storm provides another combat buff staple, in the form of freedom of movement. Again, this option clearly stands out for the combat optimizer. You might encourage its uses primarily in non-combat situations by making each use of free movement require a standard action before proceeding (so you could use a standard action to automatically escape a grapple, or allow your next move action to proceed normally underwater, and so on).
Nope. The spellheart items let you shape the formulae "as if" you knew them normally. It doesn't actually grant you knowledge of the spellshape attack or formula, so no dice.Bah, isn't that kind of splitting hairs? "As if" usually means "it works exactly like X, except where specified otherwise".
Bah, isn't that kind of splitting hairs? "As if" usually means "it works exactly like X, except where specified otherwise".
And anyway, what's the harm in letting this qualify you for things? It would let someone pick up a few spellshape formulas via items and feats without actually dipping into the classes that grant them, which is certainly possible with standard magic items. I don't see what the harm is. You can already do this via feats, I know, but why not items? After all, you've already put more restrictions on the items like the Crown of Searing Flames than the original ToB items had, anyway.
Anyway, I think you should specifically say it doesn't count towards meeting prereqs if you don't want it to. Otherwise, it is ambiguous at best as written.
I apologize. I looked for an answer to this, as I suspect it has already been asked, but couldn't find one. How often can a formula gained from an item (Crown of Searing Flames, or Spellheart armor) be used outside of combat? I expect this works like the related Tome of Battle items, but I don't actually know how those work outside of combat, either...
Elemental Adept changes: Three associated circles (you decided to choose your second associated circle, I approve), automatic incantation access for your element, and then adjusted ACFs.
Did I miss anything?
Also, do you gain the spellshape attack for the associated circle that you didn't pick?
For Corrosive Touch's replacement, maybe some sort of divination triggered by getting hopped up on acid fumes?
In the case of a long, drawn-out series of fights, or if a spellshaper is out of combat entirely, assume that if a character makes no attacks of any kind, shapes no new formulae, and is not targeted by any enemy attacks for 1 full minute, he can recover all expended formulae. If a character can’t avoid attacking or being attacked for 1 minute, he can’t automatically recover his formulae and must use special actions to do so instead.
I'm going to say that falls under the "End of Encounter" rules on formula recovery.That's great. So if I take the one that gives fast healing 1 for the whole party, that's fast healing for 5 out of every 10 rounds out of combat. As a bonus, it also gives immunity to poison and disease, and +1 to a couple of things (AC and saves?). I'd say that's a damn good buy for 1500 gp. :DQuoteIn the case of a long, drawn-out series of fights, or if a spellshaper is out of combat entirely, assume that if a character makes no attacks of any kind, shapes no new formulae, and is not targeted by any enemy attacks for 1 full minute, he can recover all expended formulae. If a character can’t avoid attacking or being attacked for 1 minute, he can’t automatically recover his formulae and must use special actions to do so instead.
You might impose a soft cap on the number of uses of Invade Mind in the form of the following clause at the end: "Each time you use this incantation on a particular target, that target's memories inevitably get more muddled and confused to an outside viewer, as they're shuffled around and modified. A creature gets a +2 bonus on its saving throw for each use of this incantation it has previously failed its saving throw against, whether from a particular spellshaper or not."
You could just implant a memory of your being hired as a "physician" to cast preventative restorations and other protections to ensure "optimal health" or something else that would make you a legitimate long-term companion. The best targets for these sorts of shenanigans would probably be able to afford it (though they would probably have a good Will save and effective guards as well, in all fairness).
You might impose a soft cap on the number of uses of Invade Mind in the form of the following clause at the end: "Each time you use this incantation on a particular target, that target's memories inevitably get more muddled and confused to an outside viewer, as they're shuffled around and modified. A creature gets a +2 bonus on its saving throw for each use of this incantation it has previously failed its saving throw against, whether from a particular spellshaper or not."
Well, not exactly immunity, if I recall correctly. Delaying, certainly.Well, it's the same price as two wands of Lesser Vigor (1000 hit points of healing), or two belts of healing (54 healing per day). As another comparison, it's half the cost of a Crown of White Ravens, which can also provide (practically) unlimited healing, if the DM will let you use Crusader's Strike while "sparring", etc. So it's pretty cheap, but maybe not too overpowered.
And now you've gone and worried me over abuse of that price tag. Is that too low of a cost?
Well, it's the same price as two wands of Lesser Vigor (1000 hit points of healing), or two belts of healing (54 healing per day). As another comparison, it's half the cost of a Crown of White Ravens, which can also provide (practically) unlimited healing, if the DM will let you use Crusader's Strike while "sparring", etc. So it's pretty cheap, but maybe not too overpowered.
If anything is to blame here, I think perhaps it is that Astral Essence formula. As much as I hate to say it (as I plan to use it...), it might be too good for 1st level.
That was actually an intended side-effect, but it's subtle enough and requires enough trust that it's actually something that won't come up in game often with NPCs. Though it might need a clause about not being able to use it on yourself.You might impose a soft cap on the number of uses of Invade Mind in the form of the following clause at the end: "Each time you use this incantation on a particular target, that target's memories inevitably get more muddled and confused to an outside viewer, as they're shuffled around and modified. A creature gets a +2 bonus on its saving throw for each use of this incantation it has previously failed its saving throw against, whether from a particular spellshaper or not."
This would mean that if you have someone you trust able to Invade Mind you, you can essentially immunize yourself against that specific invocation. I'm not sure if that's really stupid or really awesome. Probably the latter, although I doubt you intended it that way.
That was actually an intended side-effect, but it's subtle enough and requires enough trust that it's actually something that won't come up in game often with NPCs. Though it might need a clause about not being able to use it on yourself.
Is it OK if I call Invade Mind Golden Years Tarnished Black or Glories that Never Were?
Just because that one ability replicates my favorite charm tree in Exalted.
Love.
Meanwhile, the new Wild Ascetic ACF lets you play a spellshaping druid.Very, very cool change. Shameful that wild ascetic anchorite cannot pick Glimmering Moon circle. For me it doesn't make sense flavor-wise, because lycanthropy and madness are quite 'druidic'.
I killed Mage-Warrior's Steed.Why?
Very, very cool change. Shameful that wild ascetic anchorite cannot pick Glimmering Moon circle. For me it doesn't make sense flavor-wise, because lycanthropy and madness are quite 'druidic'.
Why?
Hrm. Any more opinions? I really like those replacements, but I don't want to horribly unbalance anything.
Impulsive Tactics should have Impulsive Jaunt as a prerequisite, since it only functions while that feat is active.
Impulsive Voyage should have 500 feet of Abrupt Step as a prerequisite (or, at the very least, the Abrupt Step ability), since it only functions through using that resource.
Edit: I'm concerned about Impulsive Surge. It requires significant overhead (tracking uses per day and rounds remaining aren't a problem, but determining which attribute it applies to each round and recalculating each round is a killer), but gives a paltry bonus (At level 1, it's a +1 bonus, which is barely worth tracking). Further, it's a competence bonus, so by mid levels it will likely overlap with some of your existing bonuses some of the time.
1: Remove the typing. I don't see why it shouldn't stack. (And besides, competence? I'd have expected luck.)
2: Increase the bonus to be something worth tracking. That means a minimum of +3 or +4. Barbarian Rage is a consistent and dependable +2 to a wide range of statistics. This may be only a small part of a class (as opposed to the majority of it), but it's more limited at any given time and randomized to boot. Any bonuses it grants should be worth the effort spent worrying about them.
Also, you don't have to scale up the bonuses to crazy high values if you start with a higher baseline. You could just as easily make it apply to multiple attributes at once, and/or offer more attributes it could apply to when you do so.
Aw. I kinda liked the random rage thing idea. Maybe as an ACF?
Just hulking up to get more powerful formulae doesn't feel very impulsey to me. Maybe let you reshuffle your occurred formulae a few times per day or something? I know you want something fun to go alongside your formulae at level 1, though, so that might not be quite enough. /shrug
Well, technically, impulse mages already have a limited capacity to reshuffle their occurred formulae Like pretty much everyone, they can take a swift action once per encounter to change their prepared formulae. Everyone else expends all of their prepared formulae when they do this, but--given the impulse mage mechanic--I figured it was just easier to reshuffle. It's basically what would happen, anyway.
Soulbound Companion Anchorite should have the Handle Animal skill added to skill list (maybe Ride too).
Is the fine art of riding forbidden to spellshapers? Because any of base classes have this skill as class skill.
Done. It's now a 1st level ACF, to add the class skills early.
Well, spellshapers already have pretty big skill lists for magic-users. I figured Ride doesn't come up terribly often. It's also one of the skills that I frequently forget about the existence of.Yes, it's true, but actually a Spellshape Champion with his knight-like feel could also get it.
Big thanks! This change would drastically improve my PC.
Yes, it's true, but actually a Spellshape Champion with his knight-like feel could also get it.
After playing as an Anchorite for a while, I have few thoughts about equality of numens. First of all, I understand that complete balance is both impossible and unnecessary. On the other hand, the Crushing Stone numen quickly becomes very obsolete. DR 1/- for entire party is nice at first level, but DR 5/- at 20th level is likely ignorable.
The Natural Balance numen is a completely different case. Fast Healing 2 at first level is a bit too strong. I recommend to tune in down to Fast Healing 1. It would be still miraculous out-of-battle heal, but less powerful as the passive healing during an encounter.
...Don, I just had a terrible idea. Want me to work it out and post it somewhere? It's a small, non-standard circle, that focuses mostly on defensive buffs.
I'm thinking Champion ACF to get access, or maybe a feat or two...
I'd go with a feat with a BAB requirement. That way, a defensive-minded anchorite can pick it up and be DEFENDER MONK. And, since it won't count as one of the chosen circles, you don't even have to write an aspect for it!
Also, at this rate, you're going to force me to add a "Lesser Circles" section at the end of the Arcane Circles chapter.
All changes are great :) but the Chronarch bothers me a lot. The idea is undoubtedly very interesting, but abilities are quite disappointing. He exchanges two circles for bunch of perks, which are useful, but not original or flashy. The Chronarch needs desperately some cool active ability (as curse of Dark Impulses Impulse Mage) to make up for lost circles.
Moreover, he cannot learn new formula at second level, because he learns all possible first level formulae at first level.
12:11 PM: Replaced the silly initiative bonus with a "jumps through time" deal. Also noted that the chronarch doesn't learn a new formula at 2nd level.
Yay, limited to self time hop! Maybe cut duration and change the activation to immediate action, it would become better defensive ability.
Actually, stealing from psionics is a very good idea. How about Elemental Adept ACF called primal adept or something with access to eternal time, astral essence and unseen hand circles with Astral Construct instead of elemental companion and few other psi-like goodies? ;)
I can't tell you. Have you tried looking at it with 3D glasses?
Thing is, savants are an intelligence-based class very strongly themed around knowledge. The time travel ability is more of an anticipation defense than an "oh shit" button. An "Agh oh God get me out" ability makes sense for a more spontaneous character type, but a class that is based around tactical knowledge and planning should have defenses that play that way, as well.
So, anyone who knows me personally knows that I have a very complicated relationship with psionics. To whit: I'll pillage it for mechanics when appropriate, but I very strongly dislike the flavor. Very strongly.
I think that event tactical-based character have access to immediate actions (warblades and their counters, wizards and immediate action spells). Moreover, usefulness of standard action self-only time hop is quite vague. First one is to disappear when things go tough and cease fighting totally. Okay, no problem with that, but at later levels everyone would have access to much better escape buttons. Second one is to tactically disappear to gain some advantage and this use is not so great even at low levels. You spend your very valuable standard action (this means no attacking) and disappear. In the meantime enemies can easily focus on rest of your team. If this ability was immediate action, as conjurer's Abrupt Jaunt, at least one of the enemies would lost his attack or special ability.
If you want to keep standard action activation time, at least give this ability better scaling and at higher level usable on objects and eventually enemies.
Just curious, but why did you make it so Spellshape Incanter only scaled to level 13, instead of taking it to 19 (following the six level spacing)?
Well, I haven't gotten to the prestige classes yet, but I was planning on putting the Translocation Adept in with the rest of the "main" prestige classes--with its semi-circle listed after the class description--and the Shaper of the Way in the "Martial Adepts and Spellshaping" appendix, which is also where I'm going to be moving the Edgewalker Knight and the Flamedancer.
(click to show/hide)
The "Design Team" entry refers to anyone who's actively written spellshaping material or significantly contributed to it. Garryl, for instance, is on there because he's more or less responsible for the system not falling on its ass, while Hanako's there for all the ideas that I steal from her.
The "Consulting" entry is for everyone else who has provided suggestions or feedback. I went through both threads for that one, pulling every name that posted meaningful feedback or commentary.
I should probably compile a list of playtesters, too. Which is going to require actually reading all the posts in the spellshaping threads, as well as scanning the play-by-post boards. (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-effort.gif)
On the Semi-Circle front, how many of those do you anticipate writing? This is more of an organizational question than anything else, since they're...unusual, from a rules perspective. They're different enough that I don't think that they should be treated like the sixteen full circles, but I still have to figure out where to put them in the actual book. Translocation formulae are easy--those will just be listed after the Translocation Adept's class features--but a feat-gated Semi-Circle is going to take some maneuvering.
I'm thinking that the Semi-Circles may end up being in the same appendix as the Flamespeaker and the Spellshot Marksman, with that being rebranded from "Variant Spellshaper Classes" to "Variant Spellshaping Material." That's probably going to be the easiest way for me to handle this one, since it allows me to keep writing the main text without worrying about defining full circles and Semi-Circles separately. It also gives you more time to actually write them up, so there's that, too.
Wow, I am in the credits! Twice! You can remove gparali, he is me.
I haven't managed to playtest your Spellshapers yet but there is someone in the GitP who wants to have a Spellshaper-only pbp game. I will put the link here in case someone wants to join. There are only a couple of people expessing interest for now.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255008 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255008)
I also applied for a sandbox game. If the Dm accepts me I will be playing an Impulse Mage(going for Darkened One)//Malefactor focused on debuffing. If I get in I will be sure to tell you how it goes.
Seems reasonable. Note that I kinda was stuck with the lame name fo Shaper of the Way because.... I'm bad at naming things. :P
I iz usefuls!
:P
Got someone playing a Spellshaper in a game I'm running on Giantitp. Since it's also serving as a testbed for my Sentai class...
QuoteI'm thinking that the Semi-Circles may end up being in the same appendix as the Flamespeaker and the Spellshot Marksman, with that being rebranded from "Variant Spellshaper Classes" to "Variant Spellshaping Material." That's probably going to be the easiest way for me to handle this one, since it allows me to keep writing the main text without worrying about defining full circles and Semi-Circles separately. It also gives you more time to actually write them up, so there's that, too.
Probably for the best. :/
I should probably compile a list of playtesters, too. Which is going to require actually reading all the posts in the spellshaping threads, as well as scanning the play-by-post boards. (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-effort.gif)I will be playing your Dragonheart Adept, 1-20 (that capstone), in The Open Sea (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=121.0). I also plan to take a single level of Sublime Shaper for another character, but there is a few levels to go; it is more for a better base than swordsage, but I have high hopes for Figment of Light, while Devouring Shadow's negative damage will provide healing for some undead minions.
Yay for Jewish holidays!
Anyway, I do have to say... I playtested some stuff before Tome II came out, and... yeah.
None of what I can say would be relevant now.
EDIT: I'll be posting something... interesting though, in a bit.
Glad to see progress is being made swiftly. Too tired to actually look at anything. I'm in the middle of physically moving about fifty servers all by myself...
I find this class way overpowered.
It has:
Full BAB
Highest Hit Die
2 good saves
lots of skills
Spellshape channeling is no liability. It gives you free extra damage. Similarly to sneak attack, but with no conditions. Manevours and Duskblade ability are similar, but they require to have only 1 attack (full attack for Duskblade on higher levels)
Daunting presence is nothing more than free stance Iron guard glare, however, you do not have to choose between your numen and this. Basically, you get free Stance Mastery of Warblade, but limited to 2 stances (which are both very good).
Champion's resolves bonus to AC is simply too big. The class already has good saves and great hit dice.
There's more, but I don't have time now... anyway... this class is not only way more powerful than any tanky class I saw, but also is very good at dealing damage and crowd control. It's too good in too many fields.
Even if it is head and shoulders above other tanking classes, that isn't saying much. Other than crusader, tanking classes are notoriously weak. So what if this is a class that can actually succeed at a role that most other classes fail at?
You can prepare all six of your known formulae at 1st level
The Spellsage text says this:QuoteYou can prepare all six of your known formulae at 1st level
While the table lists 4 prepared formula at 1st level.
I was just looking at the items, and I noticed that the Empowering Surge property could be written as "the extra damage die from the Empowering property is multiplied on a critical hit". The standard energy burst properties need to be written out specifically, since they deal extra d10s on crits instead of just d6s, but the lamen property just adds more of the same damage die size.
Wrote another circle, now with healing powers and laying on of hands (note: there is only laying on of hands if you are an Anchorite, and it's really more of a punching motion).
I'm asking for suggestions. What should Natural Balance be?
Typing those out I noticed a common theme among the formulae that didn't get axed. They are all very clearly and directly plant related. They tie in closely to the thornspike attack, while those being axed do so loosely, if at all.
So do you want Natural Balance to be less "the Druidy circle" and more "the "wood element" circle"?
I like summoning and I thought it was cool that NB had spellshaping summoning. If summoning animals is not where you want to go, how about summoning plants? Either actual plant type creatures (which would require digging through sourcebooks looking for appropriate ones or homebrewing them) or astral construct esque creatures flavoured as tangles of animated vines ala the manifestation of thornspike?
More poison of different levels: I was a little surprised that Nature's Venom wasn't part of a "cycle" of poison effects with lower or higher die sizes or possibly hitting different stats.
More buff effects with planty flavor ala Mantle of Thorns: Maybe a Barkskin effect or something similar?
Ohhh, I like the Wood Element circle idea. I like it a lot, especially since Wood is an actual Element in the cosmology.
Also, I take it this means Surging Spirit is being considered an official canon circle?
The question then is, if you are going for a Druid flavor circle, why did most of the Druid stuff, as opposed to the stuff that hewed closely to the spellshape attack get targeted for axing?
What didn't you like about the "call" cycle formulae if it wasn't that they were summoning animals? If you're going to have a druid theme, summon nature's ally really ought to be in there.
Alternative ideas: Shapeshifting. Maybe a formula or two that echo the "Bite of the Were[creature]" line of spells? That could be a replacement for the "of the wild" cycle.
A "wall of thorns" type effect? Maybe along the lines of "make a thornspike attack that deals +Xd8 damage. If it hits, thick impassable briars sprout in an Xft radius around the target. These briars impair movement [to some degree]."
Well, elves are never a good reason to do anything, but I take your point. I think that the whole "growing thorns" thing is already covered by Mantle of Thorns and Poisonous Mantle, though.
Also, I forgot that I also wanted to axe Transfixing Spike. Means I still have a few ideas to generate, but we're actually getting somewhere. Natural Balance has gone from the last circle to be revised to being the next circle to be revised.
I should probably write that research paper that's due tomorrow first, though.
Feral Summons: The bite attack should probably be full str, since it's a primary attack (has to be since it's the only attack). Attack bonus to AC ratio means more attacks miss at lower levels so making it full str won't push the average damage above what you want it to be.
Maybe Weapon Finesse since dex will be higher than str (that's pretty standard for animals with high dex.)
I don't know if it's outside what you want the formulae to do, but maybe consider options for customizing the summons ala the "menu abilities" that astral constructs get.
I think you may be overcompensating with the move action tax. Other summon abilities don't require that (and there are ways to get them as standard actions) and let you have several summons running around at the same time for no penalty. Summoning is supposed to be powerful in that way.
I think the built in limitation of only being allowed one of each formula at a time, is a significant drawback compared to other summoning abilities and makes up for the advantage of never running out of spell slots or PP.
The high Dexterity scores are primarily there for survivability, not finesse. I mean, I could technically swap the way that Strength and Dexterity are calculated, but I figured that tying down the damage to the formula was a better idea.
The Summons formulae are already going to be more complex than most formulae. While I'm not opposed to customizable summoning, it wouldn't feel right to give that level of interactivity to only one circle.
Thing is, the Summons formulae aren't being balanced against other summoning abilities, they're being balanced around the rest of spellshaping. In almost all cases, a formula that creates something that you control requires a move action to exert that control. So, there's the issue of consistency--and, before you pull some examples from circles that haven't yet been revised, I'm going to be pushing this one across the board.
More importantly, omitting that move action requirement allows the Summons formulae to deal massive amounts of damage with only slight investment. I do not agree with the idea that summoning should be more powerful than other options, so summoning formulae will always be balanced against any other type of formula. Even with the move action requirement, I'm fairly certain that the Summons formulae will make Natural Balance one of the highest-priority circles for damage-centric builds. If it weren't for the fact that Wildfire and Predatory Summons end up doing around the same damage at 20th level, I might wonder if Natural Balance might edge out Searing Flame for the highest-priority slot.
I was going to make a comment about Predatory Summons being arguably better than Wildfire, due to the prevalence of fire resistance and immunity, but I think it ends up as a wash, what with DR being what it is. SR and AC probably work out the same way. (Incidentally, I forgot to note it, but the natural attacks of the Summons creatures will count as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR.)
Giving weapon finesse as a bonus feat would give dex to hit but not to damage. I mostly suggest it because that's how most (possibly all) published animals with higher dex than str are set up.
On that note, do you know what you want to do with the appearance of the summon? Things like whether it can have limbs cappable of opening doors and such could be important.
It's a valid point that there's no good reason for summoning to be more powerful than other magical effects. The move action thing seems like a good way of holding down that power.
Summons do have a few disadvantages that things like a blast of fire don't, though. You can't blind fire with glitterdust, or kill it with AoOs or lock it down with solid fog etc. Damage output may be exceptional in theory but there's a lot more that can go wrong for a summon than a straight damage effect.
I was going to go with the "usually pick animals from the terrain and climate they're most familiar with" approach, like the Shapeshift class feature. They're all intended as general animals, though. Wolves, bears, et cetera. Generally not door-friendly things, with the possible exception of some bears.
The terrain the spellshaper is most familiar with? Could they write into their backstory that they're from a tropical region and summon apes?
Also, is the intent for the summoned creature to be an animal, in that it has animal intelligence, must be handled via the skill unless you can talk to it, etc? If so, that would cut down on having your summoned ape open a trapped chest for you, or having it throw alchemical splash weapons or things like that.
Making them mindless might be a mistake since then a player could argue that the spellshaper gets to precisely control their actions, meaning they could get them to do any of the various out of combat utility things easily.
If you want to have the summoning formulae not have any out of combat utility you could accomplish that by saying something like "the animal arrives spoiling for a fight and, if not immediately directed to attack an enemy, will attack the nearest creature." That would let out every sort of out of combat utility including using them to trigger traps by walking down a corridor (well, an enterprising player could summon the animal at the far end of the corridor, thus causing it to run toward the party to attack and setting off traps that way but that would at least carry some element of risk.)
Any reason it can't be given a specifically quadrupedal form while also being an animal? As I've always conceived of it, you're not calling the animal from somewhere--it's created by the magic. It's just an animal that's created by the magic.
Even if you limit it to quadrapedal animals you'll end up with some yahoo trying to summon a giant raccoon or selling you on how a moose can work door handles with its lips (this is actually true) or something.
I might be inclined to just not worry about it. Anyone who has their heart set on it will figure out a way to wangle door opening or tool using or whatever no matter what their background and anyone who doesn't won't feel the loss.
Even if you limit it to quadrapedal animals you'll end up with some yahoo trying to summon a giant raccoon or selling you on how a moose can work door handles with its lips (this is actually true) or something.
I might be inclined to just not worry about it. Anyone who has their heart set on it will figure out a way to wangle door opening or tool using or whatever no matter what their background and anyone who doesn't won't feel the loss.
Meese can open doors with their lips.
Meese.
Goddamn.
I just.
...yeah, that...
....
....not going to worry about it, then.
And unlike Mouse. Whose plural is meeses.
I seem to have gotten in the crossfire of a Mediafire purge...serving several musicians. What. I don't think that the Codices ever violated the copyright of Guns 'n' Roses, Michael Jackson, the Gorillaz, or any number of other musicians...but, apparently, someone disagreed!
You should totally name one of the new Natural Balance formulae "Welcome to the Jungle"
The new NB looks good to me, at least. I like the shapeshifting and summoning formulae. Good take on those abilities.
The one thing I'm not sure about is Animalistic Fury. Is that a new formula? In any case, it's listed as level 1 but it has a "one NB formula" prerequisite. I don't recall seeing a lv 1 formula with that prereq before. Also, 4 damage/turn seems awfully harsh for the benefit it provides. I don't see a lv1 character being able to take that damage for even 1 turn safely.
Maybe make the damage non lethal and make it a bit smaller. Maybe 2 or 1d4.
EDIT: Rereading the circle it occurs to me that maybe Fury was intended as an offensive power. If that's so, my above issues do not apply.
EDIT: And now for something completely different: An exceptionally random question:
Do the elemental circles allow their practitioners to create said element? Specifically, if a Spellshaper with Blustering Gale was trapped in an air tight room, could they produce air to keep from suffocating?
By the way, I'm going to have someone playing a Dragonheart Adept this coming semester.
I will keep you posted.
By the way, I'm going to have someone playing a Dragonheart Adept this coming semester.
I will keep you posted.
Fancy stuff. Don't know when the Dragonheart Adept revision will hit, since I no longer have any idea how long any revisions will take, but I'll try to remember to save a copy of the existing version of the class so that your player doesn't have to completely rebuild his character when the revision hits.
In other news, I formatted Natural Balance into the master document and removed all references to damage type in the "make a single [SPELLSHAPEATTACK] attack that deals an extra [NUMBER]d6 points of damage" lines, in order to be consistent across circles. I could have gone the other way, but typing out "an extra [NUMBER]d6 points of damage, half of which is [DAMAGETYPE] and the other half of which is [DAMAGETYPE]" every time would have driven me insane.
Speaking of life, I found my notes for a positive energy-based circle in the 1001 ideas thread.
DQ, I know how you're crazy about typos. There's one in the index thread, under skills, for Know (arcana). It says "practies" instead of "practices" (missing a 'c').
I love the spellshaping system of yours, especially the spellsage. Would you mind if I converted any of it at all. The basic sub system will remain intact though. I'll be using this system (http://www.basicfantasy.org/) for the basic chasis but I'll stick firmly to the spellshaping rules.
In other news, high-level water effects are hard to come up with. There are only so many ways you can do "it creates a wave!" I now understand how Aquaman's writers feel.
Finally, a question generated by Giant in the Playground: When gaining a new chosen circle, should the anchorite be able to exchange known formulae for formulae from the new circle of the same level or lower? If so, how many formulae should it be able to exchange?
Liquefaction, poison, acid and just about any kind of chemical attack would also fit, as would changes of shape and state.
Finally, a question generated by Giant in the Playground: When gaining a new chosen circle, should the anchorite be able to exchange known formulae for formulae from the new circle of the same level or lower? If so, how many formulae should it be able to exchange?
Depends how accessible you want the new circles to be. Unlike with psionics, where powers have no prerequisites, spellshaping requires you to focus on a path and devote significant resources to it to gain access to the upper echelons of power. As an inheritor of the Ardent's mantle access mechanics, the Anchorite will need a way to resolve this issue.
Without any sort of free trading, you'll be stuck to either give up momentary power (higher level maneuvers) for breadth of options (full access to the new circle). With the way formulae known works, and looking at the growing gap between the number known and the number prepared, this loss of power actually disappears after several levels, resulting in a temporary cost for a permanent benefit. As such, a character leveling naturally through gameplay is discouraged from using new circles, while one created as a high level Anchorite faces little to no penalty for access to a greater slew of options.
So, the question is, how accessible and usable do you want the new circles to be? Is the addition of circles supposed to be a full-fledged expansion of options? It it just a minor boost with new numen/incantation/aspect options?
Include stuff thematically appropriate for water- purification, disintegration, ect. Stuff like wiping away buffs/debuffs or poisons.
Liquefaction, poison, acid and just about any kind of chemical attack would also fit, as would changes of shape and state.
I'm pretty sure the "water" circle is mostly just water, not all liquids. Otherwise, it would have things like lava, and we can't have that.
Some ideas for Roaring Tide:
- Wall of water. You already have parting water, raising water, and creating water, this is just an extension of that.
- Jets of water to knock people up/aside, possibly remaining in certain spaces over several rounds.
- Water bubble. Sort of like the Globe of Invulnerability, Defenestrating Sphere, and Resilient Sphere spells, but with water.
- Bloodbending. Control bodily fluids to make a creature act as you direct, or just deal massive internal damage.
- Drought. Evaporate liquids, possibly even those inside a living creature. See the Blight spell and the Blue Dragon's ability.
If you want to go with the idea of water rather than just physical water, anti magic effects fit with a fluff of "damping" the magic.
You could also do a "perfect defense" type thing as a high level minor formula fluffed as flowing around an attack.
Anyway, I'm going to toy with some of these. We already have some of the purification elements with Cleansing Waters and Cleansing Stream, so hooray for parallel thinking. Exactly how bad of an idea would an antimagic ray-type formula be? I was thinking 7th- or 8th-level, since having your capstone formula prevent you from affecting the creature with other formulae would be saddening.Fluff it as some type of constant flow over the creature, which can be broken out of. Maybe it's attuned to that creature's "unique magical aura" or something, to explain why you can still do magic to the target.
Mechanically, it functions like antimagic ray (thus allowing you to continue affecting it with other formulae, by my understanding of the rules for that spell)
except it's SR: No (because of the spellshape attack it rides), and the save becomes None. Allow a grapple check or escape artist check of some kind, or some type of save, as an action of whatever type feels appropriate, to break free, thereby shifting the action burden onto the target. This would almost certainly be a 9th level version, though. Even in the 9th level case, I'd probably make the action cost to escape Swift or Move; anything pricier than that probably kicks a little too much ass.
How about (pick and choose, mix and match)...
- A series of opposed CL checks or dispel checks to suppress items in use and spells currently affecting the subject.
- A counterspell attempt against each spell/SLA/similar used.
- Rather than negating everything, just damp it. Reduced CL, minimum variable numeric effects, reduced bonuses granted, etc.
... instead of an all-or-nothing AMF.
That's more so that pinning does something other than forcing them to succeed at two grapple checks to escape. But, yeah, it also would prevent command word activation of magic items they aren't actually wearing or carrying, if such a thing is possible.
At your opponent’s option, you may also be unable to speak.
That's more so that pinning does something other than forcing them to succeed at two grapple checks to escape. But, yeah, it also would prevent command word activation of magic items they aren't actually wearing or carrying, if such a thing is possible.
You can already do that by pinning.QuoteAt your opponent’s option, you may also be unable to speak.
That's more so that pinning does something other than forcing them to succeed at two grapple checks to escape. But, yeah, it also would prevent command word activation of magic items they aren't actually wearing or carrying, if such a thing is possible.
You can already do that by pinning.QuoteAt your opponent’s option, you may also be unable to speak.
...huh. Well, is there any reason not to leave it in?
Also, any problems anyone sees with the proposed form?
Garryl, have I mentioned that I love you? I'll get on the more in-depth stuff when I have time to look at it in more detail, but quick fixes:(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
Use of "may" in Cleansing Water means that you can technically shape it when not subject to any conditions...which, while useless, makes Cleansing Stream more intuitive.
Edit the Third: Standardized all the bull rushing to use the same wording and mechanics. Everything now notes that it bull rushes creatures "regardless of size." Everything has a fixed modifier, and everything specifies how much it moves things. This should fix Fluid Barrier's thing, since it now works like the others. I'm not sure how to specify the order of bull rushing, since the spells that do similar things don't specify in any way. I would assume they'd all be rushed simultaneously?
Roaring Geyser now deals 1d8 additional damage per 10 feet, so a slight decrease there. I'll go into the spellshaping rules later and fix it so that it's subject to DR. I assumed that one die per level with a save for half was consistent with normal damage/level considerations, but I can tweak it if it's too high.
Hey, any future plans on more support for the Flamespeaker, through feats and such? For instance, how the other class that changes their spellshape attacks into melee attacks gets the feat to add their spellahaping ability mod to damage with their spellshape strikes.
Not that there aren't already plenty of general purpose feats, but most of the other, already established classes get custom stuff.
Again, I'm sure it's not high priority, but it's the first "Pyro" class that gets things right the most for me. :)
A thought has just occurred to me, regarding my fumbling attempts at a partial spellshaper. When I finish revisions to untie it from its absurdly specific mechanical and fluff niche, would calculating its shaper level as though it had no spellshaping levels at all render it better-suited to the system's assumptions? 1/2 shaper level instead of 3/4, I mean. I've been thinking that 3/4 might even be too good for a class that can potentially lob 2 or 3 major formulae per round, and if I can do something that puts it back in line with the rest of the system, all the better.
Question:
Why are Lamen so expensive?
Probably because they're enhancing attacks that are already pretty good by themselves. Spellshape attacks are usually touch attacks, and they work at range and deal a good amount of base damage to begin with.
Speaking of revisions, I've revised Crushing Stone!
Changes:
- 1st Level - Animated Stone replaced with Aegis of Stone.
- 2nd Level - Earthbreaker cleaned up.
- 5th Level - Swallowing Earth detached from rockslam.
- 9th Level - Wrath of Stone replaced with Wrack the Earth.
There may be other changes, but, if so, I forgot to write down that I made them.
Devouring Shadow is next.
Speaking of Devouring Shadow, I'm planning to replace a 1st-level formula, a 5th-level formula, and a 7th-level formula.
I was toying with the idea of minor formulae at 1st and 5th that would give you 5 and 25 temporary hit points--not stacking with themselves, obviously. Fastest recovery of formulae will let you shape a given formula every other turn, so, at best, you'd be negating an average of 2.5 damage per turn and 12.5 damage per turn. Too much? Not enough?
For 7th level, I was thinking of going in a different direction. I've decided to tweak the 4th-level Infect formula to have "disease" conditions defined in-formula, allowing them to function more effectively within the conventions of formulae, rather than having them use actual diseases, which would seem weirdly timed when compared with your other abilities. Since I need a new 7th-level formula, I was then thinking of having a minor formula that imposed two or more of the diseases on your target, with the capacity to spread between enemies. Thoughts on this one?
If these values seem problematic, I can always attack them when I get to the item revision.
I'm mostly looking at how quickly that formula spirals. 3,500 for the +1, I can get behind. 75,500 for a +5 has already passed what I'd look at as reasonable. 300,500 for the +10 is ridiculous, considering that the WBL for L20 is only just over 1/2 that.
(Since the wealth table lists 760,000 gp for level 20, I'll assume you meant "just over 2x that."):facepalm
What about dropping it down to a 2,500 multiplier, rather than 3,000? Costs become 3,000 gp for +1, 63,000 gp for +5, and 250,500 for +10.That seems a lot more reasonable to me.
Tinkering SavantThis ACF seems to be based on the Artificer's crafting ability, but uses class level to determine caster level. This is a pretty big penalty to anyone multiclassing with this class rather than going single-classed progression. Have you thought of changing it to be more multiclassing friendly?
That seems a lot more reasonable to me.
This ACF seems to be based on the Artificer's crafting ability, but uses class level to determine caster level.
This is a pretty big penalty to anyone multiclassing with this class rather than going single-classed progression. Have you thought of changing it to be more multiclassing friendly?
Oh... having never played one, for some reason I thought theirs was based on UMD ranks...This ACF seems to be based on the Artificer's crafting ability, but uses class level to determine caster level.
So does the Artificer.
So, a funny thing was pointed out to me today on the way to the Roman forum. There's nothing that stops a spellshaper who's not a spellshape champion from picking up a spellheart weapon and pretending to have spellshape channeling. It never actually says "However, a character who possesses knowledge of other arcane formulae but does not possess the spellshape channeling class feature cannot shape those formulae through attacks with a spellheart weapon."I thought that was intentional... I mentioned buying one of those for a dragonheart adept character several months ago specifically for that (so I could channel his spellshape attack through it while his breath weapon was recharging), and you said something like "Oh yeah, that's a cute trick". :P (Said character didn't yet have enough levels to channel his spellshape attacks, though dragonheart adepts do eventually get that ability.)
Said text will be added appropriately when I get to the items revision.
So, a funny thing was pointed out to me today on the way to the Roman forum. There's nothing that stops a spellshaper who's not a spellshape champion from picking up a spellheart weapon and pretending to have spellshape channeling. It never actually says "However, a character who possesses knowledge of other arcane formulae but does not possess the spellshape channeling class feature cannot shape those formulae through attacks with a spellheart weapon."I thought that was intentional... I mentioned buying one of those for a dragonheart adept character several months ago specifically for that (so I could channel his spellshape attack through it while his breath weapon was recharging), and you said something like "Oh yeah, that's a cute trick". :P (Said character didn't yet have enough levels to channel his spellshape attacks, though dragonheart adepts do eventually get that ability.)
Said text will be added appropriately when I get to the items revision.
Wasn't the ability to channel the spellshape with formulae the whole point? How else is a non-spellshaper going to use whatever formula is stored in the weapon?
The spellheart weapon is intended to let characters other than spellshape champions gain the ability to channel their spellshape attacks through the weapon.
When wielding a spellheart weapon, a character can command it to manifest its magical nature as a free action once per round, causing it to function as though it were channeling the spellshape attack associated with its imbued formula (see spellshape champion (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=854.msg5273#msg5273), page 24 of The Codex of Spellshaping: The Twelve Circles). While the item's magical nature is manifested, the weapon's wielder can shape any formula imbued in the spellheart weapon as if she knew it normally and were channeling it through her attack.
It is also intended to let them channel the Formula stored in the weapon through the weapon while doing this. It is NOT intended to let them channel other Formula, that they know from sources other than the weapon, through the weapon.
Got it. :P
So... I think SirP asked you how you'd price a Spellheart "weapon" that was actually like an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and so let you channel your spellshape attacks through your natural weapons instead of a manufactured one. Thoughts on that?
Formula Level | Cost | |
1st | 7,500 gp | |
2nd | 9,000 gp | |
3rd | 30,000 gp | |
4th | 33,000 gp | |
5th | 67,500 gp | |
6th | 73,500 gp | |
7th | 120,000 gp | |
8th | 132,000 gp | |
9th | 187,500 gp |
Wasn't the ability to channel the spellshape with formulae the whole point? How else is a non-spellshaper going to use whatever formula is stored in the weapon?
Besides, I thought Spellshape Channeling (as opposed to normal spellshape attacks) was supposed to be a disadvantage for Spellshape Champions, to balance out their excellent chassis.
Edit: In fact, channeling the formula through the weapon as the ONLY way to use the formula of a Spellheart Weapon.
Er, nevermind, I see the issue. You're not stopping channeling the stored formula, you're stopping the channeling of other known formulae.
Huh. So what shaper level does it use to determine the damage for the spellshape attack? Whatever the item was created at, regardless of the wielder's? Or the wielder's (since it says "as if you knew it normally")?The spellheart weapon is intended to let characters other than spellshape champions gain the ability to channel their spellshape attacks through the weapon.
Nope:When wielding a spellheart weapon, a character can command it to manifest its magical nature as a free action once per round, causing it to function as though it were channeling the spellshape attack associated with its imbued formula (see spellshape champion (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=854.msg5273#msg5273), page 24 of The Codex of Spellshaping: The Twelve Circles). While the item's magical nature is manifested, the weapon's wielder can shape any formula imbued in the spellheart weapon as if she knew it normally and were channeling it through her attack.
It only lets you channel the spellshape attack associated with the formula imbued in the weapon. Whether or not you know that spellshape attack. If you know a spellshape attack other than the one associated with the formula imbued in the weapon, you cannot channel that spellshape attack through the weapon.
Clearly, I need to reword things to make them more clear. :P
(I have the thread up in another tab. I've been watching you, phaedrusxy. Oh, have I been watching you.)Glad I have an audience. ;)
See, this is one of the problems with rapid conversations. By the time I edit my post, someone's already responded.
With regards to what I was saying about Spellshape Channeling seemingly being a disadvantage, is freely accessible spellshape channeling an issue? Other than level 1-3 Dragonheart Adepts, but that feels more like a failing of the class at low levels than an unfairly large benefit from the weapons.
On a related note, no love for ranged spellheart weapons and full-channeling Spellshot Marksmen? By referencing only Spellshape Channeling, it only works with melee weapons (even though spellheart weapons are not otherwise restricted).
Huh. So what shaper level does it use to determine the damage for the spellshape attack? Whatever the item was created at, regardless of the wielder's? Or the wielder's (since it says "as if you knew it normally")?
The shaper level of a formula used from a spellheart item is equal to the minimum shaper level required to learn that formula. If a formula from a spellheart item allows a saving throw, the DC is equal to 10 + the formula's level + the user's highest mental ability modifier or 10 + the formula's level + the item's enhancement bonus, whichever is higher.
Formula Level Cost 1st 7,500 gp 2nd 9,000 gp 3rd 30,000 gp 4th 33,000 gp 5th 67,500 gp 6th 73,500 gp 7th 120,000 gp 8th 132,000 gp 9th 187,500 gp
Level | Weapon | Armor |
1 (+1) | 500 (+2000) | 500 (+1000) |
2 (+1) | 1000 (+2000) | 1000 (+1000) |
3 (+2) | 3000 (+8000) | 1500 (+4000) |
4 (+2) | 7000 (+8000) | 7000 (+4000) |
5 (+3) | 10000 (+18000) | 10000 (+9000) |
6 (+3) | 15000 (+18000) | 30000 (+9000) |
7 (+4) | 25000 (+32000) | 25000 (+16000) |
8 (+4) | 32000 (+32000) | 32000 (+16000) |
9 (+5) | 45000 (+50000) | 35000 (+25000) |
Level | Weapon | Armor | Formula Cost (included in weapons and armor) |
1 (+1) | 2500 | 1500 | 500 |
2 (+1) | 3000 | 2000 | 1000 |
3 (+2) | 11000 | 7000 | 3000 |
4 (+2) | 14000 | 10000 | 6000 |
5 (+3) | 28000 | 19000 | 10000 |
6 (+3) | 33000 | 24000 | 15000 |
7 (+4) | 53000 | 37000 | 21000 |
8 (+4) | 60000 | 44000 | 28000 |
9 (+5) | 86000 | 51000 | 36000 |
I'll...probably use something like that, yeah. I can't remember the actual costing process for spellheart items, but something tells me that it involved darkness, sleep deprivation, crying, and a fervent wish for absinthe. And I don't even drink.
Copy/paste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5580531), amirite?
So, uh, ignoring the insanity of my last two posts, I seem to have actually revised Devouring Shadow (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=864.0).
- Terrorize has been replaced with False Vitality, which gives you a number of temporary hit points equal to your shaper level.
- Infect has been switched from actual diseases to disease-like effects, defined in-formula.
- Wracking Pain has been replaced with Ward of Retribution, which forces attackers to make Fortitude saves or take damage equal to the damage they inflict upon you.
- Petrifying Gaze has been replaced with Pox, which allows you to combine two disease effects from Infect and makes them contagious.
Anything get horribly screwed up by these changes?
So, uh, ignoring the insanity of my last two posts, I seem to have actually revised Devouring Shadow (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=864.0).I will definitely look over the changes, as that's one Circle which I'd considered for my latest character, but passed on. No time for the next couple of days, though.
- Terrorize has been replaced with False Vitality, which gives you a number of temporary hit points equal to your shaper level.
- Infect has been switched from actual diseases to disease-like effects, defined in-formula.
- Wracking Pain has been replaced with Ward of Retribution, which forces attackers to make Fortitude saves or take damage equal to the damage they inflict upon you.
- Petrifying Gaze has been replaced with Pox, which allows you to combine two disease effects from Infect and makes them contagious.
Anything get horribly screwed up by these changes?
As if we'd ever do that. :P
I will definitely look over the changes, as that's one Circle which I'd considered for my latest character, but passed on. No time for the next couple of days, though.
So, uh, ignoring the insanity of my last two posts, I seem to have actually revised Devouring Shadow (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=864.0).I like the changes, but why are the durations on the quasi-diseases so crappy? They're minor penalties, allow a save to resist, and immunity to disease makes you immune to them. Why not make them last 24 hours or something?
- Terrorize has been replaced with False Vitality, which gives you a number of temporary hit points equal to your shaper level.
- Infect has been switched from actual diseases to disease-like effects, defined in-formula.
- Wracking Pain has been replaced with Ward of Retribution, which forces attackers to make Fortitude saves or take damage equal to the damage they inflict upon you.
- Petrifying Gaze has been replaced with Pox, which allows you to combine two disease effects from Infect and makes them contagious.
Anything get horribly screwed up by these changes?
I like the changes, but why are the durations on the quasi-diseases so crappy? They're minor penalties, allow a save to resist, and immunity to disease makes you immune to them. Why not make them last 24 hours or something?
Why not tie it to the ability damage?
So they keep the penalties as long as the ability damage is left, but they are removed as soon as they are removed?
Why not tie it to the ability damage?
So they keep the penalties as long as the ability damage is left, but they are removed as soon as they are removed?
Is there any good way to track ability damage like that? For example:
I take penalties from effect 1 that causes 3 Strength damage. Then, later on, I take 5 Strength damage from another source. Then I get hit with a Lesser Restoration spell that heals 4 Strength damage. Do I still suffer the penalties?
I take penalties from effect 1 that causes 3 Strength damage. Then, later on, I take penalties from effect 2 that causes 3 Strength damage. Then I get hit with a Lesser Restoration spell that heals 4 Strength damage. Do I still suffer the penalties? From which effect? Both? Neither?
I've got it. Let's introduce -1/-1 counters
I... don't know of any situation where that's the case?
Even if something like that comes up, just state that if you are immune to ability damage, you are immune to the penalties as well.
For Pox, I would recommend not letting the infection spread repeatedly to creatures that already have it.
Instead of worrying about tying durations to ability damage, why not just tie it to a regular old disease? As in, do it like the Contagion spell (save or take the ability damage immediately and be infected, dealing ability damage every day thereafter when you fail the save), with the added effect that you take your -2 penalty to attack rolls/AC/saves/whatever until you are cured of the disease? You already have 6 diseases to work with. The names are already done, incubation is irrelevant, ability damage is a flat 2 Str/Dex/Con/etc., and save DC can be a simple 14 to 16 (10+level vs. the minimum save DC that the formula can have under normal ability score minimums). It's more disease-like to use actual disease mechanics, no?
For Pox, I would recommend not letting the infection spread repeatedly to creatures that already have it.
Oh, yeah. That's intended to be the case, so let me come up with some wording for it.Instead of worrying about tying durations to ability damage, why not just tie it to a regular old disease? As in, do it like the Contagion spell (save or take the ability damage immediately and be infected, dealing ability damage every day thereafter when you fail the save), with the added effect that you take your -2 penalty to attack rolls/AC/saves/whatever until you are cured of the disease? You already have 6 diseases to work with. The names are already done, incubation is irrelevant, ability damage is a flat 2 Str/Dex/Con/etc., and save DC can be a simple 14 to 16 (10+level vs. the minimum save DC that the formula can have under normal ability score minimums). It's more disease-like to use actual disease mechanics, no?
Ehh. Part of what I wanted to get away from was the easily-recoverable swift action that let you inflict conditions lasting days. I really am leaning towards 5 rounds and 8 rounds at this point--most combats that I've seen are over by that point, unless you're fighting something that deserves multiple infections.
For Pox, I would recommend not letting the infection spread repeatedly to creatures that already have it.
Oh, yeah. That's intended to be the case, so let me come up with some wording for it.Instead of worrying about tying durations to ability damage, why not just tie it to a regular old disease? As in, do it like the Contagion spell (save or take the ability damage immediately and be infected, dealing ability damage every day thereafter when you fail the save), with the added effect that you take your -2 penalty to attack rolls/AC/saves/whatever until you are cured of the disease? You already have 6 diseases to work with. The names are already done, incubation is irrelevant, ability damage is a flat 2 Str/Dex/Con/etc., and save DC can be a simple 14 to 16 (10+level vs. the minimum save DC that the formula can have under normal ability score minimums). It's more disease-like to use actual disease mechanics, no?
Ehh. Part of what I wanted to get away from was the easily-recoverable swift action that let you inflict conditions lasting days. I really am leaning towards 5 rounds and 8 rounds at this point--most combats that I've seen are over by that point, unless you're fighting something that deserves multiple infections.
If you wanted to avoid a long-term condition, why were we even discussing tying the penalties to the ability damage?
Is the apparent omission of a Combat Shaping feat that eliminates the need to make or grants a bonus on checks made to shape defensively a deliberate choice?
EDIT: I've posted a new base class based on mounted combat. Fucker's 19 pages long, counting the basic mount options, so I don't expect reviews any time soon. Seriously, me, what the hell. It's got options for 5 different mount types, each of which gives you a progression of 4 class features, as well as a section on mount advancement and... just, what the hell.
Anyway, I doubt I've balanced it properly yet, but I wanted it for a campaign in the far future, so it's here now. It's a much revised version of the shitty Magitek Knight I posted elsewhere on the boards, which I'll now proceed to pretend never existed.
Well, if I had to guess...probably because I've been awake for far too long at this point, and am currently very easily distracted by shiny objects.
Edit: Is "Whenever an uninfected creature comes within 5 feet of the subject of a Pox, you may force that creature to attempt its own Fortitude save against infection" clear enough for Pox?
Is the apparent omission of a Combat Shaping feat that eliminates the need to make or grants a bonus on checks made to shape defensively a deliberate choice?
EDIT: I've posted a new base class based on mounted combat. Fucker's 19 pages long, counting the basic mount options, so I don't expect reviews any time soon. Seriously, me, what the hell. It's got options for 5 different mount types, each of which gives you a progression of 4 class features, as well as a section on mount advancement and... just, what the hell.
Anyway, I doubt I've balanced it properly yet, but I wanted it for a campaign in the far future, so it's here now. It's a much revised version of the shitty Magitek Knight I posted elsewhere on the boards, which I'll now proceed to pretend never existed.
I still exist, just drowning in work at the moment. I should actually be working now, but I can't focus on what I'm supposed to be doing!
Bauglir, can I borrow/steal/shamelessly rip off some of the mount stuff for my mecha?Please do steal as much as you like. If an idea's good enough to rip off, that means I've done a good job. Fixed the italic tags, incorrect numbering of the One Soul as Two abilities, and added the poison definition (Con-based, DC 12, 1d3/1d3 Str). Pretty terrible poison, but I don't want it to be anything but an inconvenience since you get access at level 1.
Your domesticated spider is missing the definition of its poison.
You have some bad italics tags in the Vermin entry of One Soul as Two. Also, the abilities in Plant, Undead, and Vermin are the wrong order (the 9th-level ability is listed first instead of the 5th-level ability).
I still exist, just drowning in work at the moment. I should actually be working now, but I can't focus on what I'm supposed to be doing!
Anything we can do to help?
Bauglir, can I borrow/steal/shamelessly rip off some of the mount stuff for my mecha?Please do steal as much as you like. If an idea's good enough to rip off, that means I've done a good job. Fixed the italic tags, incorrect numbering of the One Soul as Two abilities, and added the poison definition (Con-based, DC 12, 1d3/1d3 Str). Pretty terrible poison, but I don't want it to be anything but an inconvenience since you get access at level 1.
Your domesticated spider is missing the definition of its poison.
You have some bad italics tags in the Vermin entry of One Soul as Two. Also, the abilities in Plant, Undead, and Vermin are the wrong order (the 9th-level ability is listed first instead of the 5th-level ability).
What's the radius of class-granted numena, such as through Spellshape Champion with the Spellshape Paragon ACF?
When a spellshaper chooses to project a numen, its benefits take effect in a 30-foot radius around her. For every five shaper levels she possesses, this radius increases by 5 feet. A spellshaper's numen remains in effect until she dismisses it (a free action), she is rendered unconscious or dead, or she projects another numen in its place.
Can I steal the statted out monsters? They seem like great things to advance a little and give to weirder cultures (I mean, ooze-riding is utterly rad.)Absolutely.
2nd | +1d6 |
3rd | +2d6 |
4th | +3d6 |
5th | +4d6 |
6th | +5d6 |
7th | +6d6 |
8th | +7d6 |
9th | +8d6 |
Question: Did you remove the healing formulas from Natural Balance? The main formula list shows a few, but a quick search of the Natural Balance page only turns up 'heal' in the numen's description.
If you did remove them, does that mean the only healing formulas are the fast healing ones from Astral Essence?
That might not be good.
While this may seem like a pretty significant damage nerf, note that the spellshape attacks are continuing to scale up to 5d6. That means that you'll be doing 13d6 damage at level 17, without any feats or other damage increases. With the spellshape focus feats and the relevant lamen, a spellshaper would be able to get up to 16d6 damage, plus the effects of whatever formula was actually being shaped. Which, you know, seems like where we actually should be.
Edit: If people still have twitchy Same Game Test trigger fingers, I'd say to give the Akashic Records (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=136.0) a good sweep. In addition to this being an excuse to promote the system, knowing how Akasha scores would actually give me a decent amount of information about how to approach the results.
You know, that's the second time I've seen you mention Akashic Magic, and each time I look at it I can't help but feel I'm missing something. The flavor seems really cool (I wish more people did stuff with the akashic records), but the classes seem rather bare bones and generic or formulaic.
You know, that's the second time I've seen you mention Akashic Magic, and each time I look at it I can't help but feel I'm missing something. The flavor seems really cool (I wish more people did stuff with the akashic records), but the classes seem rather bare bones and generic or formulaic.
You know, that's the second time I've seen you mention Akashic Magic, and each time I look at it I can't help but feel I'm missing something. The flavor seems really cool (I wish more people did stuff with the akashic records), but the classes seem rather bare bones and generic or formulaic.
I'll be honest, I'm generally of the opinion that base classes shouldn't be too heavy-handed. Look at, say, the spellsage, or the spellshape champion. Not terribly pigeon-holey in terms of your actual flavor or direction. Elemental adept is, admittedly, but that's because I wanted an excuse to be ALL FIRE ALL THE TIME. I actually consider the versatility and customization of the Akashic base classes is a strength. Though, if you disagree, I'm sure she'd be happy if you posted your issues so she can figure out how address them.
In-context, though, our games tend to be half-and-half Akasha and Spellshaping, so the two systems sort of sit next to each other in my mind. Hanako will play a technician, I'll play a spellshaper, and Felyx--our third--will do both.
If both attacks hit, do you get the damage of both or only one? If both, do both get formula bonus damage or only one?
I notice you have hide as a class skill for some classes, but no class has move silently. Is there a reason for this?
Probably another oversight... but Numinous Anchorites don't have a meditative state and therefore can never recover any formulae as a swift action.
Project Numena (Su): At 1st level, you gain the ability to project the numena associated with your chosen circles. Whenever you gain a new chosen circle, you gain the ability to project the numen associated with that circle.
At first, you can project only one numen at a time. Starting at 10th level, you can have two numena active at the same time; at 20th level, you can have three active numena.
Projecting the numen associated with a given circle allows you to recover formulae from that circle as a swift action, just as if you had adopted the meditative aspect associated with that circle.
Also, is there any chance of a prestige class that focuses on Eternal Moment popping up? I've been playing a Chronarch and I've been falling in love with that circle.
Sculpt Spellshape and Chain Spellshape. I cannot think of very many situations where I would rather use Chain than Sculpt- but Sculpt is a first-degree metashaping feat and Chain is 3rd-degree. I get it as a parallel between Chain and Sculpt Spell, but in this case Sculpt Spellshape is inarguably better. It seems. Unless you have some insight to the contrary?
consider that Reflex saves are a lot easier to make than touch attacks are to avoid.
Chain should probably get dropped to a degree 2 metashaping feat. Sculpt deserves a degree of 2 or 3, maybe even 4, although that would be pushing it.
The problem with increasing Sculpt to a +2 or +3 is that Shaper's Stride and other such feats become useless due to such a high cost. And Stride is a prereq for a prestige class, so messing with that creates it's own problems.
Which I think will be just dropping those metashaping feats down to 1st-degree, but still requiring Sculpt.
Currently:
- Sculpt + Expand = 1 + 2 = 3
- Sculpt + Explosive = 1 + 2 = 3
- Sculpt + Stride = 1 + 2 = 3
If Sculpt went to 2nd-degree, those could easily just be dropped to 1st-degree. If Sculpt goes to 3rd-degree, I could actually drop them to not having a degree, but still requiring that it be Sculpted.
Decisions...
While I'm not necessarily against the idea of stride and co being free, I think there might be a few unintended consequences. Namely Sculpt+expand+explosive+stride=3+0+0+0=3. There's also the issue of the few instant aoe formulas that work with stride explosive and expand without needing sculpt.
Speaking of Stoichen heritage feats, Salamander Heritage should be toned down somewhat. You've got 2-4 feats worth of stuff in there.
- +1d6 fire damage/attack
- A high damage (2d6+1d6) natural attack with reach.
- Improved Grab and Constrict.
Living spellshape is going to be replaced with some manner of fairy ripoff. Probably Small, rather than Tiny, since it'll be an Int-boosting race.
So, my DM is finding the damage I'm spitting out a bit high. I just hit 9th level, which is a +3d6 bonus to my formulae (+2d6 from heighten, +1d6 from the spellshapes), and I'm wondering if heighten should give +1d6 damage per level, rather than +2d6.
Living spellshape is going to be replaced with some manner of fairy ripoff. Probably Small, rather than Tiny, since it'll be an Int-boosting race.
Aww. Is there any chance I could convince you to leave them in? I had quite some fun using them to create a pc god of potential/time a while back and it's not often you get to play as an ooze.
So, my DM is finding the damage I'm spitting out a bit high. I just hit 9th level, which is a +3d6 bonus to my formulae (+2d6 from heighten, +1d6 from the spellshapes), and I'm wondering if heighten should give +1d6 damage per level, rather than +2d6.
Stoichen Highblood [Racial]
You have manifested a particularly potent connection to your elemental bloodline.
Prerequisites: Stoichen
Benefit: You gain one of the following sets of benefits, depending on your elemental blood.
Airblooded: You receive a +1 dodge bonus to AC. In addition, your connection to the air allows you to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. You glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if your maneuverability improves, you can't hover while gliding. You can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
If you become unconscious or helpless while in midair, you instinctively begin to glide. You descend in a tight corkscrew and take only 1d6 points of falling damage. no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
Earthblooded: You gain a Climb speed equal to your base land speed. In addition, you gain a number of hit points equal to your current Hit Dice. Each time you gain a Hit Die (such as by gaining a level), you gain 1 additional hit point. If you lose a Hit Die (such as by losing a level), you lose 1 hit point permanently.
Fireblooded: Your base land speed increases by 10 feet. This benefit stacks with all other speed increases. In addition, unlike most fireblooded stoichen, the flames that flicker from your body are hot to the touch. Your mere touch deals an additional 1d6 points of fire damage, and any metallic weapons you wield also conduct this heat. Dousing or kindling your flames suppresses or resumes this effect.
Waterblooded: You gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls. In addition, when moving through difficult terrain, your movement speed is doubled, rather than halved, and you can charge or run normally.
Airblooded is begging for one or two more feats to improve the gliding to proper flight like the Raptoran racial flight and the Dragon Wings feat chain.
Earthblooded could be simplified to "Any changes to the number of Hit Dice you possess commensurately changes the number of additional hit points granted." I know you just took the wording from Improved Toughness, but that wording still irks me slightly. You may also wish to note that the climb speed grants, in and of itself, a +8 racial bonus of Climb checks and the ability to take 10.
My gut says to drop the fire damage from Fireblooded to 1d4 or less. In addition to the fact that it's reactive as well as proactive as enemies take the damage, too, when they directly touch you (such as by hitting you with unarmed or natural attacks), it's also 3.5x the similar attack and AC bonuses (compare to Power Attack or Weapon Focus vs. Weapon Specialization all giving damage bonuses at 2x the quantity of attack bonuses). Further, the boost to your base land speed is probably the most reliably useful of the four movement boosts, improving the movement mode you most often use and boosting all other base land speed-based movement speeds, such as swimming, climbing, and the flight granted by most templates with wings.
Just to nitpick, but your speed isn't halved in difficult terrain, it's just that each square counts as 2 squares (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm). I'm also surprised that you're getting the ability to better move through difficult terrain instead of a swim speed with Waterblooded. That breaks with the patters the other three bloodlines have, giving you an improved version of some sort of basic movement associated with that element. Falling, climbing, walking... shouldn't water be swimming? Or is swimming just overdone? In any case, moving at double speed just feels out of place. Ignoring the speed reduction is fine and in keeping with the flavor of water's fluidity, although it's probably a tiny bit narrow.
Now I want to make a... something that lets you change your elemental heritage.
There are two sourcebooks that are at the "complete" stage, or, well, at least as complete as homebrew can get.
I think.
The links for the PDF versions of the codices are broken. Does anyone have a copy that they could re-upload?
Quick question about the Flamespeaker's Lesser Ascension: It says you gain 50% resistance to critical hits. Does this mean you take 50% of the damage from a critical hit, or any bonus damage from a critical hit is reduced by 50%, or that you have a 50% chance to negate a critical hit (like fortification)?
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