Maho-Tsukai

[Mushroom]

How exactly does the Maho-Tsukai's spell conversion class feature work? I seem to be an idiot and not able to wrap my head around it.

[FlaminCows]

Maho-Tsukai, from Oriental Adventures.

How it works is that when you become a Maho-Tsukai, you can count your previous spellcaster levels as Maho-Tsukai levels but only for spellcasting. You retain your skills, saves, base attack bonus, and class features apart from spellcasting, but you lose the previous class's spellcasting and add  that many levels to your Maho-Tsukai level to determine how many spells you can cast per day and the maximum number of spells you know. You still know the spells you knew before, but they're maho spells now and you cast them as a Maho-Tsukai.

Thus a Sorcerer 5 / Maho-Tsukai 2 doesn't cast as a 5th-level Sorcerer and 2nd-level Maho-Tsukai, but instead casts as a 7th-level Maho-Tsukai.

[Mushroom]

Thus a Sorcerer 5 / Maho-Tsukai 2 doesn't cast as a 5th-level Sorcerer and 2nd-level Maho-Tsukai, but instead casts as a 7th-level Maho-Tsukai.

In this example, do you loose access to the sorc spells you knew or are they added to the Maho-Tsukai's spell list?

[SorO_Lost]

Also, fyi on updated Taint rules.

The taint system presented in this book is derived from a similar system that originally appeared in Oriental Adventures, with some modifications introduced in Unearthed Arcana. The rules in this book are an update and revision to the earlier rules, and replace the earlier system. If you wish, you can easily use monsters, maho (“blood magic”) spells, and other rules from Oriental Adventures with this taint system.
...
Taint Suppression: Characters with the maho-bujin and mahotsukai prestige classes no longer manifest physical symptoms of their corruption. Their depravity manifests in the normal range of mental symptoms, but they can replace any physical symptom of corruption with the internal corruption symptom. If such a character enters a tainted area, his corruption immediately manifests externally again, and he regains the physical symptoms he exchanged for internal corruption, if any. These physical symptoms disappear again 1d4 days after he leaves a tainted area. Otherwise, it is impossible to tell from external appearance that the maho-bujin or maho-tsukai carries corruption.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

How exactly does the Maho-Tsukai's spell conversion class feature work?

I seem to be an idiot and

... not able to wrap my head around it.

Don't worry, Taint is not straightforward.  Blackguards trade in different stuff.  Otherwise?
Here's the SRD version ---> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm


Presumably a local Bloodspeakers cult, could have an Adept who's converted to Maho. 
C.O. wasn't quite as willingly gonzo back when OA came out, so I doubt it has much rules intense discussion buried in the archive.

[phaedrusxy]

C.O. wasn't quite as willingly gonzo back when OA came out, so I doubt it has much rules intense discussion buried in the archive.

As a group, the CO community pretty much said "That crap is too broken to even look at", and ignored it.

[Mushroom]

This Thread(Keep clicking Cancel) suggests that you can keep learning spells from the lists of your previous classes, but I can't find anything to really support this reading. Can someone outline the source of this logic?

[Maat Mons]

Spell Conversion: A maho-tsukai can "trade in" levels in another spellcasting class for additional levels of maho-tsukai spellcasting ability. Each level of prior spellcasting ability counts as one additional level as a maho-tsukai for purposes of determining spells known and spells per day only. Spells previously learned as a shugenja or sorcerer count against the character's total spells known, but the maho-tsukai casts them now as arcane maho spells, spilling blood during the casting as a blood component. Maho-tsukai do not learn more cantrips or gain more 0-level spells per day as they advance. When a maho-tsukai advances a level, she can learn her new spells from either her old spell list or the maho-tsukai spell list, but casts all her spells as maho spells regardless.

For example, a 5th-level sorcerer becomes a maho-tsukai when she reaches 6th level. As a sorcerer, she knew six 0-level spells, four 1st-level spells, and two 2nd-level spells. As a maho-tsukai, she converts her sorcerer levels to maho-tsukai spellcasting ability, and can now cast spells as a 6th-level maho-tsukai. She learns one new 1st-level spell (a total of five), one new 2ndl-evel spell (a total of three), and two 3rd-level spells as well. She casts all her spells—whether she knew them before her "conversion" or not—as maho spells, using blood components. She still knows her six cantrips, and can cast six 0-level spells per day for the rest of her career.

[Mushroom]

You beautiful spider-clown-avatar-using man, thanks.

Now to brainstorm!

[awaken_D_M_golem]

C.O. wasn't quite as willingly gonzo back when OA came out, so I doubt it has much rules intense discussion buried in the archive.

As a group, the CO community pretty much said "That crap is too broken to even look at", and ignored it.

Yeah, I mean if a big hash-out happened, I figure it would have to go:
1) ... Maho is a Bad Sorc
2) ... Maho has lots of (or too much?) abuse able tricks
3) ... there's no reason to choose #1 if you could just be a Sorc without the problems

Could see using the Warmage list expander stuff, also the Prestigious Bard/Pally/Ranger.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, I mean if it's obviously broken it kind of takes the fun out of optimizing it ...

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yeah, I mean if it's obviously broken it kind of takes the fun out of optimizing it ...

Uhh  what about Pun-Pun ?

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, I mean if it's obviously broken it kind of takes the fun out of optimizing it ...

Uhh  what about Pun-Pun ?

Useful as a reductio ad absurdum example?  Or, as an example that game designers are several steps away from god?  I haven't really found any other use for it over the years.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

No you're right ... plus the UA/SRD Taint caster and
the HoH Taint caster also generated little or no interest.
The psi Taint -fester got no attention, either.


Early C.O. had an Apostle Of Peace / Maho combo with
a misunderstanding of the spellcasting trade off levels,
to make an inf loop of the caster level.  Fluff wise it'd be
interesting to have a psuedo~buddhist Backslider that
would go progressively unhinged into Maho, and then
pop back via a contingency ... and then have to go
self flagellate until proper Atonement had happened.
Then have it happen again.  And again.  There would
be this conscious choice between VoP/Peace purity
and getting the job done with dirty blood and pus guts.

[Hades]

If I understood well the "spell conversion" rules from Maho Tsukai, does a Duskblade 19/Maho Tsukai 1 have the "crunch" of a duskblade (full bab, arcane channeling, etc.) and the full spellcasting power of a Maho Tsukai (9th level spells)?

That would be quite and impressive gish.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yeah you could do that.  You'd keep the Duskblade spells known, and get the ~Sorc bump up.

While it seems like this would be in the notorious Lightning Warrior neighborhood, the Maho list is quite short at the upper levels.  Duskblade would provide more depth in the 4s and 5s.

[Hades]

You also keep duskblade free quicken spell and, most of all, arcane channeling.

Yes, maho-tsukai list is kinda "narrow" for a full caster.

I saw that the class has no class features besides spellcasting, after level 1.

So it seems that, just form an optimizer point of view, best choice for a maho-tsukai is gaining it at a1 level dip in a build with strong class features.

  lightning warrior... but that class is WEAK! C'mon: it lacks a familiar and can’t specialize in a school of magic! Just in a group with a truenamer and a samurai it "may" be ok