Author Topic: Tier System for PrC - Discussion  (Read 2906 times)

Offline Tr011

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Tier System for PrC - Discussion
« on: February 27, 2012, 04:17:49 AM »
I'd like to start an (imo) interesting discussion: How would you rate the PrCs from Fiendish Codex 2? There are 4 PrCs:

Hellbreaker: He gets some really nice abilities and two good saves, has 3/4 BAB as usual for sneaky guys and 3/10 SA, most his abilities make him go melee and he misses some good class skills (i.e. UMD). The entry requirements are hard: 3 feats that you probably wouldn't have taken. He also needs two social skills but has no diplomacy. The capstone is really nice, anyway. I got no idea what Tier this is.

Hellfire Warlock: needs lvl 9 at least and is intended for Warlocks, I think we have to differ between two things here: Hellfire Warlock with Bloodline/Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion abuse (really great damage and the drawback is nothing if you got Naberius/that incarnum feat) or just the regular 3-levels-PrC. I think both ways make a Warlock build Tier 3.

Hellreaver: It's a fighter-PrC that looks a bit like Crusader or Paladin. The many uses of swift actions are funny and Mettle is cool. It's Charisma-dependend so you should gain the Charisma-to-some/all-save ability from Crusader/Paladin. MAD as usual :/

Soulgard: 9/10 spellcasting class with d8 and 3/4 BAB sounds pretty meh to me. Maybe -1.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Tier System for PrC - Discussion
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 03:27:25 AM »
I was curious if someone was planning on adding some of the other 3.0 books? Like Song and Silence or Oriental Adventures
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Offline Beriorn

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Re: Tier System for PrC - Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2014, 04:16:58 PM »
I think the stuff on the Rainbow Servant should be expanded a bit into Warmage, Wizard and Bard/Sorcerer. +2 for the Warmage, +1 for the Wizard and -1 for the Bard/Sorcerer.

Warmage would be able to cast the entire Cleric list spontaneously and without preparing, which is awesome.
Wizards still have to buy the spells and write them down, but they can still learn everything.
Bards and Sorcerers just have more spells they can choose from when they learn new ones, but cannot learn more spells in total or get more casts per day. Arguably it's better for the Sorcerer than the Bard, because they get all 9 levels of casting.

Offline magic9mushroom

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Re: Tier System for PrC - Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 02:35:11 AM »
Anarchic Initiate should be +1, not +2. The stated definition of +2 (Marvelous) includes the bolded statement that it must raise the logical entry's tier. While Anarchic Initiate is an incredibly-good PrC for Psion, it does not raise it from Tier 2 to Tier 1.

(By contrast, Thrallherd does raise Psion to tier 1, because you can take tier 1 casters as thralls.)

Walker in the Waste at +2 is highly suspect. First, without Dry Lich the class is bad, and RAW you get the LA for Dry Lich which is also bad (ordinary Lich is easier at that point; cleric liches, while rare in published material, are perfectly legal). Second, even if Dry Lich's LA is removed, you'll have serious issues with any kind of underwater area for the rest of your career, as you treat any water as holy water and are thus effectively barred from swimming (the most applicable rules would seem to be the proportionality for touching lava or acid vs. immersion in it, which would give 20d4 damage per round). Third, while Dry Lich is very good (without the LA), you are paying quite a lot for it (2 caster levels, 50,000 gp, 4,000 XP), so even without the LA I'm not sure it merits +2 rather than +1 (unless you're going into epic).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 03:15:44 AM by magic9mushroom »

Offline magic9mushroom

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Re: Tier System for PrC - Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 10:45:57 PM »
I'm relatively inexperienced with Incarnum, but I don't understand why Necrocarnate is -2. You're a level behind in soulmelds and chakra binds, but you're rolling in essentia. The standard assumption in the DMG and MM is four encounters per day, two monsters per encounter (single monsters are called out as being unusual); as such, in each encounter you should have about six harvested souls (even the first encounter of a day, because it's 24 hours and the last three encounters of the previous day should still be there). This does assume you kill and harvest all your foes, but you're an evil prick whose entire schtick is doing that so I don't see any reason why you wouldn't. At level 10, you should therefore have about 19 essentia (7 from 7 incarnate levels, 6x2 from 3 necrocarnate levels), which far exceeds the 10 of a standard incarnate, and at level 20 you have about 49 (7 from incarnate, 6x7 from 13 necrocarnate levels) compared to the incarnate's 26. You're certainly weak if you haven't had the chance to harvest anybody lately (e.g. you've been in a city and playing nice), but otherwise it doesn't seem too bad.

Can someone explain to me why this is listed as -2?