Author Topic: Tips for punishing metagaming  (Read 10846 times)

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 11:03:30 AM »
Now if it has some weakness or resistance that isn't obvious by looking at it and someone calls it out without having a way of knowing that I am going to call foul on that. But sometimes it really is just that obvious.

If you want people to be fooled and use the wrong weapon against a skeleton, illusions and disguise exist for a reason. But in that example at least it's a moot point as even the greatsword will probably one shot the skeleton.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 11:28:04 AM »
Now if it has some weakness or resistance that isn't obvious by looking at it and someone calls it out without having a way of knowing that I am going to call foul on that. But sometimes it really is just that obvious.

If you want people to be fooled and use the wrong weapon against a skeleton, illusions and disguise exist for a reason. But in that example at least it's a moot point as even the greatsword will probably one shot the skeleton.
Exactly. And this is somewhat of a variant of Veekie's original suggestion. There are ways to fool people into using metagame/PC knowledge falsely. Your suggestions of disguises are a nice in-game way to do just that.
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Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 11:35:20 AM »
And as for the main point, it's really hard to punish metagaming. Do you consider it an in game action or an out of game action? If the former, anything you do is going to come off as imposing arbitrary penalties because you don't like what they are doing. If the latter, they're a player, not your child.

This is the sort of thing that you solve by talking to your players, and if they don't stop then you can talk about not playing with them anymore, etc but the concept of punishment doesn't really apply here.

Offline veekie

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 12:00:35 PM »
Quite, and few parties are entirely without knowledge.

Really the happy middle ground is to give them some way to take advantage of enemies, but also to limit full disclosure of abilities. Fighting something you don't know is a devil and then repeatedly bouncing off its defenses is only entertaining a couple of times.

EDIT:
Also, its easier to reward playing to character than to punish metagaming. The former is clear, the latter is not.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 12:07:43 PM by veekie »
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2011, 12:03:48 PM »
Quite, and few parties are entirely without knowledge.

Really the happy middle ground is to give them some way to take advantage of enemies, but also to limit full disclosure of abilities. Fighting something you don't know is a devil and then repeatedly bouncing off its defenses is only entertaining a couple of times.

Well, any party without some knowledge abilities is hopefully going to be few and far between.  There are a few things that can be figured out just by sight, I agree.  For the rest, that's what knowledge skills are there for.

Offline LordBlades

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2011, 03:10:09 PM »
Wow, I didn't expect my examples to be taken so literally  :P

I was merely trying to illustrate the following general point. Your character is in a situation, and has 2 options: option X (which doesn't lead to a positive outcome) and option Y (which does). You (the player) know which one is the 'correct' one, but your character doesn't.

a) If option Y is something your character would not normally do unless he has specific knowledge that it's the correct option(like drawing his backup weapon when it's not obvious his main weapon would be ineffective for example) then not metagaming is simple: you pick option x.
b)If both option X and Y make sense for the character in that given situation, not metagaming becomes a bit harder.

Offline weenog

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2011, 05:42:58 PM »
b)If both option X and Y make sense for the character in that given situation, not metagaming becomes a bit harder.

That's typically when I roll Int or Wis against a DC around 10, just an "Is he really that stupid/crazy?" check.  Or for truly arbitrary decisions (mainly chaotic characters, or situations with no hope of gaining enough info ahead of time to make an educated correct choice) there's always the trusty d2.
"Whoops, forgot to roll my fire and holy damage."
"I doubt she's going to make a DC 111 Fort save, anyway."

Offline kitep

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2011, 08:57:30 PM »
For the most part, I ignore metagaming.   I figure it's part of the character's training, or something he remembers from a story he heard, or whatever.  If you lived in a world of dragons, and it was your job to go out and fight monsters, don't you think you would know which colors are immune to what?

Real life example: if you get an email from a Nigerian prince, do you consider it meta-gaming life if you don't take him up on his offer?   :D  Or is it something your real-life character just happens to know?

I do draw the line at players opening the monster manual in the middle of battle though.   :banghead

I think the biggest metagaming I see is when a new character joins the party.  Such a person is always treated *way* different than any NPC the party meets.

Offline kitep

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2011, 09:01:46 PM »
One thing I do do: when I know a trap/ambush/whatever is coming up and I don't want the players to realize it by making them roll a spot roll (or whatever), I'll usually make them roll it earlier in the adventure, and then mentally note if they made it or not. This gets them used to thinking that just because they're rolling it doesn't mean there's a trap there, and doesn't tip my hand when the actual trap comes up.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2011, 09:32:10 PM »
One thing I do do: when I know a trap/ambush/whatever is coming up and I don't want the players to realize it by making them roll a spot roll (or whatever), I'll usually make them roll it earlier in the adventure, and then mentally note if they made it or not. This gets them used to thinking that just because they're rolling it doesn't mean there's a trap there, and doesn't tip my hand when the actual trap comes up.
There's that, or making a note of their Spot/Listen mods and rolling it yourself.
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Offline veekie

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2011, 04:44:51 AM »
^^
Generally when the players see the dice rolling they get all kinds of paranoid for some reason.

Quote
I think the biggest metagaming I see is when a new character joins the party.  Such a person is always treated *way* different than any NPC the party meets.
Acceptable breaks from reality I guess. Otherwise you would have the ragtag band of colorful characters do the realistic thing and resolve to stay away from each other on sight :P
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Offline DavidWL

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Re: Tips for punishing metagaming
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2011, 12:52:51 AM »
Reminder:  We do this because it is fun.

If they and their DM have fun, then all is good. 

That simple

Best,
David