Author Topic: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?  (Read 3930 times)

Offline Craiconn

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Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« on: July 15, 2014, 10:12:56 PM »
The Friend to Foe spell (PHB2) .... http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/friend-to-foe--2985/

This Illusion [Phantasm] spell first got notoriety as one of Frank Trollman's selections for his infamous "Spells That Fvcking Kill People" list.  Beyond that, it's really hard to find any mention of this spell being discussed at WotC, GitP, EnWorld, BG or MinMax forums.  Primarily because searching for the words 'Friend to Foe' brings up a lot of unrelated crap finds due to the generic words in the title. 

So that's why I'm coming to you folks.

Tell me what you think about this spell.  I'm looking at it and loving the fluff, the concept and the sheer social upheaval potential in the spell.  But I'm also seeing a a lot of potential headaches and flying by the seat-of-your-pants adjudicating for the DM.  Because casting this against a bunch of dumb, angry Hill Giants will net a considerably different result from that of casting it on a bunch of guileful, savvy Succubi once the Phantasm is lifted after damage starts to get dished out.

Perhaps some of you have used this spell or DM'ed players who've cast it?  I could use some advice and testimonials.  Especially since I plan on DMing soon with an urban/woodlands campaign that starts at 10th level in the Forgotten Realms.  And I have one player who is itching to use Friend to Foe with his planned Beguiler build.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 01:06:49 AM »
Looks like a weaker version of Confusion to me.

Offline CaptRory

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 03:12:16 AM »
The duration is sharply limited. It might work well in some circumstances, say on a group of spell casters. One person fails and all of a sudden its Fireball City. Or comboing it with something that screws with vision. You know your enemies are there, but you can't see them now. You don't know they were your friends because you can't see anything even if you hit and damaged.

Confusion is better, I think, but this could have a place on the bench if certain circumstances come up.

Offline Craiconn

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AM »
Thanks guys.  Agreed ... Confusion is probably a notch above Friend to Foe.  Plus, you're right, you really either want to combo the spell with an environmental setup accompaniment that delays/hinders damage-dealing (thereby ending the spell for a given target) or just casting it on enemies who have tactically HUGE impact attacks (like lingering AoE spells or one-shot fight-ending strikes). Casting this on enemies who attack with plinking attrition-type attacks won't net you much besides the wasted turn they spent mildly whacking at their temporary "friend turned foe".

I guess too, trying to roleplay an affected creature's reactions after he deals damage to an ally (which causes the spell to deactivate for a given target) is also a bit challenging. How pissed/confused are they at the caster of FtF? How will they react to their allies who are now hurt, hampered or insulted by their temporarily traitorous act? Will any of those reactions cause the spellcaster's enemies to waste further actions addressing those issues (like using the Heal skill or casting a curative or fix-it spell like Dispel Magic on a harmed ally)? Probably not, because the spell's description doesn't delineate any specific game mechanics that would make the spellcaster potentially benefit from the lingering or subsequent fallout after the spell ends for a given target.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 08:54:35 AM »
I might as well do this right.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

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Offline Craiconn

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 09:03:59 AM »
I might as well do this right.
Huge props to the Captain. I just voted your post up.  :-)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 06:55:12 PM »
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:03:32 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Craiconn

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 08:59:07 PM »
There's no photo or image in the sblock, Soro.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 10:42:17 PM »
Clearly the better tactic is to summon The Nothing.   :smirk

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 11:03:09 PM »
There's no photo or image in the sblock, Soro.
GitP I guess doesn't allow posting their image urls, clicking still works for me through.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/7OenJ3oefyEtLzhzirS.gif

Edit - And once you visit the site the image shows up in the spoiler.
So yep, you need to send your IP GitP's way to see the OotS comic.

Offline linklord231

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 02:23:46 AM »
I'm getting an Error 403: Forbidden message.  But then again it's late and I think GitP usually does maintenance about now, so that might be the problem. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 10:27:14 AM »
Still getting an Error 403: Forbidden.

That said, I already know what it is, having quoted your post for the URL.

It's Xykon's Symbol of Insanity super ball trick.
"When life gives you lemons, fire them back at high velocity."

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Friend to Foe: A DM's Nightmare?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 02:00:51 PM »
I'm getting an Error 403: Forbidden message.  But then again it's late and I think GitP usually does maintenance about now, so that might be the problem.
No it's their anti-link stuff. Visiting the forum validates the link. Kind of annoying but maybe I'll remember it next time.

You should be able to see the comic page it's self.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html

It's Xykon's Symbol of Insanity super ball trick.
Yep ^_^