Author Topic: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder  (Read 371617 times)

Offline Craiconn

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2014, 05:03:35 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2014, 07:09:26 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.
Have we mentioned Maximizing it so that every d4 you just rolled came up a 4?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2014, 07:14:40 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.
Have we mentioned Maximizing it so that every d4 you just rolled came up a 4?
Oh my god I can only imagine the look on many DM's faces as this is cast!  :lmao
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2014, 07:16:54 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.
Have we mentioned Maximizing it so that every d4 you just rolled came up a 4?
Oh my god I can only imagine the look on many DM's faces as this is cast!  :lmao
Get a CL*4 bonus on CL things over the next CL rounds? Sure! Why not?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2014, 07:19:52 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.
Have we mentioned Maximizing it so that every d4 you just rolled came up a 4?
Oh my god I can only imagine the look on many DM's faces as this is cast!  :lmao
Get a CL*4 bonus on CL things over the next CL rounds? Sure! Why not?
I think it would be more like this:   
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2014, 07:34:11 PM »
We've already obliquely discussed the Cleromancy spell over in the Sacred Geometry thread.  But to be specific about this spell ..... it rocks.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cleromancy

Being able to apply up to a +4 Luck bonus (multiple times, even - at higher levels) to Caster Level Checks makes Cleromancy a terrific counterspell support spell.  And keep in mind, all d20 rolls can benefit from the rolls.  Attack rolls, skill checks, etc.

Other Caster Level checks benefit from Cleromancy luck bonuses as well.  I'm gonna backport this spell back to 3.5.
Have we mentioned Maximizing it so that every d4 you just rolled came up a 4?
Oh my god I can only imagine the look on many DM's faces as this is cast!  :lmao
Get a CL*4 bonus on CL things over the next CL rounds? Sure! Why not?
I think it would be more like this:   
... Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2014, 07:39:23 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2014, 07:40:01 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
How do you figure? I'm not seeing that.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2014, 08:20:52 PM »
It's sheer overkill, but since that spell gives a luck bonus....
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored

Offline Craiconn

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2014, 09:15:17 PM »
It's sheer overkill, but since that spell gives a luck bonus....
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored
Hahaha!  Nice. 

Porting it over to 3.5, you get all kinds of nice fun with this spell as a Spontaneous Divination ACF Wizard.  As a 3rd level spell, you could also squeeze it in under a Mark of the Enlightened Soul for free Empowerment.  The Divine Oracle PrC gets you 2 more d4 dice added to the pool (due to the domain power) and 2 more rounds to use the bonuses.  The Full-Round Action casting time must've been the developers counterbalancing mechanism for the power boost to the spell.  But hell, that's easy to work around via a number of methods (including Uncanny Forethought, etc.).

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2014, 09:59:59 PM »
It's sheer overkill, but since that spell gives a luck bonus....
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored
Hahaha!  Nice.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a morale bonus as I had hoped.  Then it'd get extremely more broken.  At least, if I'm understanding the spell-trait interaction right when you burn the entire bonus all together....  Ah well.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2014, 10:59:08 PM »
It's... interesting. Not useful at all. Practically detrimental, actually.

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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2014, 11:18:04 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
How do you figure? I'm not seeing that.
Quote
Cleromancy involves casting bones and interpreting the results. Those able to arrive at the proper interpretation are granted knowledge of coming events. Roll 1d4 per caster level. Group the dice by like results, and choose one of the groups. For the duration of cleromancy, you can apply a luck bonus equal to the result of the selected dice to any d20 roll.

You can apply this bonus to a number of rolls equal to the number of dice in the group. If cleromancy expires before you are able to allocate the total number of allotted bonuses, the remaining bonuses are lost.
A maximized Cleromancy only has one group. If you also empower it, you're going to have different groups again (only two, instead of four, though), because you apply Maximize and Empower separately (you'd roll 4+1d2 for each die, then separate the results into two piles depending on the rolls).
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2014, 11:33:41 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
How do you figure? I'm not seeing that.
Quote
Cleromancy involves casting bones and interpreting the results. Those able to arrive at the proper interpretation are granted knowledge of coming events. Roll 1d4 per caster level. Group the dice by like results, and choose one of the groups. For the duration of cleromancy, you can apply a luck bonus equal to the result of the selected dice to any d20 roll.

You can apply this bonus to a number of rolls equal to the number of dice in the group. If cleromancy expires before you are able to allocate the total number of allotted bonuses, the remaining bonuses are lost.
A maximized Cleromancy only has one group. If you also empower it, you're going to have different groups again (only two, instead of four, though), because you apply Maximize and Empower separately (you'd roll 4+1d2 for each die, then separate the results into two piles depending on the rolls).

Slightly incorrect. Empower + Maximize doesn't mean you roll a die 0.5 times the size, it means you roll the die then multiply by 0.5. So the results would be {4, 5, 5, 6} after rounding (as opposed to {5, 5, 6, 6} with 1d2+4). So three piles (one of which is ~twice the size), not two.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2014, 04:07:25 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
How do you figure? I'm not seeing that.
Quote
Cleromancy involves casting bones and interpreting the results. Those able to arrive at the proper interpretation are granted knowledge of coming events. Roll 1d4 per caster level. Group the dice by like results, and choose one of the groups. For the duration of cleromancy, you can apply a luck bonus equal to the result of the selected dice to any d20 roll.

You can apply this bonus to a number of rolls equal to the number of dice in the group. If cleromancy expires before you are able to allocate the total number of allotted bonuses, the remaining bonuses are lost.
A maximized Cleromancy only has one group. If you also empower it, you're going to have different groups again (only two, instead of four, though), because you apply Maximize and Empower separately (you'd roll 4+1d2 for each die, then separate the results into two piles depending on the rolls).

Slightly incorrect. Empower + Maximize doesn't mean you roll a die 0.5 times the size, it means you roll the die then multiply by 0.5. So the results would be {4, 5, 5, 6} after rounding (as opposed to {5, 5, 6, 6} with 1d2+4). So three piles (one of which is ~twice the size), not two.
I had always thought it just meant "maximize the normal number of dice, then add half the normal number of dice."  :???
(for example, a 10d6 fireball would become (10*6)+5d6)... oops.

Offline TuggyNE

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2014, 09:13:50 PM »
It's... interesting. Not useful at all. Practically detrimental, actually.

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It might have a niche (if still kind of silly) use if it allowed for magic items that have sufficient non-magical value (i.e., a valuable necklace that is then given some magic properties without damaging the gem settings or precious metals). Presumably that was too hard for them to write up, or else they just didn't think of it.
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2014, 12:29:11 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you Empower it as well? I mean, doesn't synergize well with Maximize (you probably won't roll many more fours), but still.
Yes, but due to the odd nature of the spell, you might actually be worse off than if you'd only Maximized it.  :lmao
How do you figure? I'm not seeing that.
Quote
Cleromancy involves casting bones and interpreting the results. Those able to arrive at the proper interpretation are granted knowledge of coming events. Roll 1d4 per caster level. Group the dice by like results, and choose one of the groups. For the duration of cleromancy, you can apply a luck bonus equal to the result of the selected dice to any d20 roll.

You can apply this bonus to a number of rolls equal to the number of dice in the group. If cleromancy expires before you are able to allocate the total number of allotted bonuses, the remaining bonuses are lost.
A maximized Cleromancy only has one group. If you also empower it, you're going to have different groups again (only two, instead of four, though), because you apply Maximize and Empower separately (you'd roll 4+1d2 for each die, then separate the results into two piles depending on the rolls).

Slightly incorrect. Empower + Maximize doesn't mean you roll a die 0.5 times the size, it means you roll the die then multiply by 0.5. So the results would be {4, 5, 5, 6} after rounding (as opposed to {5, 5, 6, 6} with 1d2+4). So three piles (one of which is ~twice the size), not two.
I had always thought it just meant "maximize the normal number of dice, then add half the normal number of dice."  :???
(for example, a 10d6 fireball would become (10*6)+5d6)... oops.


That's how it worked in 3.5, but PF handles it differently. According to provided examples by designers.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2014, 01:00:18 AM »
Slightly incorrect. Empower + Maximize doesn't mean you roll a die 0.5 times the size, it means you roll the die then multiply by 0.5. So the results would be {4, 5, 5, 6} after rounding (as opposed to {5, 5, 6, 6} with 1d2+4). So three piles (one of which is ~twice the size), not two.
I had always thought it just meant "maximize the normal number of dice, then add half the normal number of dice."  :???
(for example, a 10d6 fireball would become (10*6)+5d6)... oops.


That's how it worked in 3.5, but PF handles it differently. According to provided examples by designers.
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I can't find those examples..?

Offline McPoyo

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2014, 08:16:13 AM »
Slightly incorrect. Empower + Maximize doesn't mean you roll a die 0.5 times the size, it means you roll the die then multiply by 0.5. So the results would be {4, 5, 5, 6} after rounding (as opposed to {5, 5, 6, 6} with 1d2+4). So three piles (one of which is ~twice the size), not two.
I had always thought it just meant "maximize the normal number of dice, then add half the normal number of dice."  :???
(for example, a 10d6 fireball would become (10*6)+5d6)... oops.


That's how it worked in 3.5, but PF handles it differently. According to provided examples by designers.
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I can't find those examples..?
FAQ for 3.5

Similar doc for PF, can't remember which one.

Offline deadkitten

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Re: Interesting stuff in Pathfinder
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2014, 09:31:35 PM »
So from People of the River there is this interesting tidbit:
Call Out http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Call%20Out

If you read up on Dueling in Ultimate Combat you find that with this you can gain Immediate action counterspells, among other minor benefits.

At least they printed a way to force someone else to uses those variant rules.  :P