Author Topic: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge  (Read 4079 times)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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[Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« on: September 19, 2015, 04:18:22 PM »
This was his version of an obituary.

(posted Mar 14, 2008)

Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge.  You tried to whack Gary Gygax ...
... you only proved you haven't read the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master's Guide.

You posted a contra retrospective, with narry a fact-check to be found. It's my intention to not flamethrow a thing at you, rather just point out to you the facts; facts readily available in a Player's Handbook (PHB), a Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and even on-line at www.d20srd.org. Here's what you posted at http://www.slate.com/id/2186203/pagenum/all/
(click to show/hide)


**


The basic outline to contra your contra is A for Alignment, B for Bill Gates, C for Challenge Ratings, D for Diplomacy Checks , E for Experience Points, and some other stuff. Easy enough to remember. You can/could've looked all this up.

A ... Alignment is found in the PHB in Chapter 6, and also throughout all Dungeons and Dragons books (D&D). Similarly, it's available right now at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm. If you had fact checked, you'd've noticed that the behavior you describe as a "normal" game, is very not that way. There is a Prestige Class that works the way you want D&D to work; it's called the Assassin, here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm. You'll note, there is only one small class that does what you accuse all of D&D to do. Alignment of the Planes is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#outerPlanes , and again also available in the PHB and the DMG.

The Planes are an awful interesting place, especially in regards to "moral" discussions. In the real world, Jerry Falwell Protestants, Jesuit Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, line up in slight opposition to Calvinist Protestants, Dominican Catholics, and Lutherans; the free-will vs. determinism debate. To oversimplify: you pick god vs. god picks you. In D&D, some creatures have free-will; but some creatures are made by the planes, planes which are the em(supra-)bodyment of a particular alignment, the creatures unable to behave in any way other than exactly the way the plane made them. The creatures that act like what you think D&D has them act, are parcelled off on the Plane of Archeron, the plane of eternal war. And even there, they don't have infinite resources to kill, and kill, and not need to lick their wounds, and not need to check there rankings in the army they belong to. Some of the creatures in D&D are Hyper-Calvinism Gone Wild, and some of them act like the videos I'm referencing.


C ... Challenge Ratings for Traps, is available right now at http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/traps.htm ; also in the DMG under "Traps" in Chapter 3. No killing here. You do need a really smart Wizard, or a Cleric with a specific spell, or more typically, a Rogue to find the trap and disable it. And then something interesting happens, you get experience points. Way back in the day, the trapfinder was called a Thief, but most of the time, the Thief was not thieving. Weird, huh?


D ... Diplomacy Checks and other skills, are in the PHB Chapter 4, and the DMG Chapter 4 NPC attitudes section, and online at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm. Provided you can talk to the monster, and you can with minimal spell investment, and later Telepathy, adjust the bad guy's attitude. You can make it friendly. You can make it helpful, even better. You can make it Fanatical, and have it follow you around like a puppy, even in the face of a horrible Dragon. No killing here. And then something interesting happens, you get experience points. Charm Person and Charm Monster are well know spells, that do the same thing except faster and flashier. Maybe you use the Giant to fix the Barn he wrecked a few days ago. Let's sing Kum-Bye-Ya in Orcish (sweetly).


E ... Experience Points are in the DMG Chapter 2 under Rewards. It is detailed with Experience Awards and Story Awards, both of which may involve no killing. This one isn't linked online, because it's crucial to game play; perhaps the only rule that is a rule that must not be mentioned, lest the dreaded Abomination of the Copyright Dimension, sticks a supernatural suggestion on your soul, forever ... a mighty long time. Question: If you assign a CR to an Orc baby, one with ~maybe 1 hit point and can't move, of perhaps 1/10 - what level would you be when you wouldn't receive any experience points for killing all of them ???
In 1st Edition D&D, you could have terminal levels on immortal creatures, that could do what you want to do with Orc babies, for eternity, just like that "dude" in Greek Mythology that rolled a rock up a hill, and rolled a rock up a hill, and ... never ever get ahead. Literally Hell - in a D&D sense - and only one very small corner of an infinite number of infinite planes. Oh, and no experience points ever, for all that killing.


B ... Bill Gates is your boss, via Michael Kinsley. This is a rather distasteful line of reasoning for me. Bill Gates made Microsoft. Gary Gygax made D&D. You (and I) use Microsoft. You (and I) use D&D. You use D&D for *indirect object A*. I use D&D for *indirect object B*. The same sentence model can be used for Microsoft. Some people use D&D for 'distaseful indirect object'. Some people use Microsoft for 'distasteful indirect object'. You blame Gary Gygax for your own indirect object, a.k.a. hack-and-slash.
Should I blame Bill Gates for people using Microsoft for child-prawn and/or soupy-sized bombing? Ick.
By the way, this compares real-world bad behavior, to imaginary-world bad behavior.


F ... Fie on you, knave. { ... sorry, couldn't resist ... }


G ... Generically, there are 9th graders playing D&D somewhere near where you are. I'm sure they could help you out of the mess you've made of your own game. D&D is a huge rule-set. Real world Freshman Introductory Psychology will tell you, that people remember 30% of what they've read. You either didn't read the rules, or you read them but didn't remember them. Read 'em again, maybe 3 or 4 more times. In D&D, there's a skill called Autohypnosis, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm. Let's say I'm the DM and I'm'n'a give you 1 rank in the trained skill. You need to roll a (15-1) on a d20, to "memorize - You can attempt to memorize a long string of numbers, a long passage of verse, or some other particularly difficult piece of information (but you can’t memorize magical writing or similarly exotic scripts). Each successful check allows you to memorize a single page of text (up to 800 words), numbers, diagrams, or sigils (even if you don’t recognize their meaning). If a document is longer than one page, you can make additional checks for each additional page. You always retain this information (lucky!); however, you can recall it only with another successful Autohypnosis check." Even in D&D, you don't memorize everything, unless you are really really skilled. In the real world, you don't "always retain this information".


(clicky please)
Hide
Relax, sit back, click a few links, meditate, and an eventual apology would be appropriate. I hereby sentence you to 6 months of playtesting, and a published book review of D&D for Dummies. I apologize to Bill Gates for dragging him into this.

Thanks,

signed ... awaken_Dungeon_Master_golem


**

I'll clean this up later.
EDIT ---- added sblock to sofge's

link for wayback purposes
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1174866
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 04:19:14 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 08:44:42 PM »
Nice. Might want to fix the spoiler tags so it's more obvious that the article wasn't part of your writing tho--had to click the slate link to be sure and I really hated giving that blowhard the traffic.

It's pretty obvious this is just another offal dropping from the hipster journalism school of "Get attention by crapping on whatever's trending at the moment and declare yourself a visionary for doing so."

Choosing to publish this attack piece a scant six days after Gygax's death is even more odious. Obviously he couldn't post this ignorant drivel when there was a chance his target could make a rebuttal. Or Was he just in so much of a hurry to smear the dead that he couldn't bother to fact check and have some vague clue what he was talking about?
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Offline Amechra

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2015, 02:13:23 AM »
It's so obvious for anyone who knows anything about the topic that he's utterly ignorant, as well.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

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Offline MrWolfe

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2015, 06:58:05 AM »
Astonishingly so.

It's like listening to my in laws. :tongue

I mean hell, even back in the old days of AD&D/2nd Ed when I first started, the explicit rule was that you got XP for overcoming a challenge. Not murdilizing it and setting it's family on fire. If anything the game encourages peaceful resolution, because it's usually better resource management to just passwall straight to the treasure chamber rather than fight your way through all the traps and guardians the DM has set up. And I'm pretty sure that's always been the rule--XP is gained for overcoming a challenge, regardless of how that's accomplished. (Also from acquiring treasure, in some editions)

If anything, I've been perpetually annoyed that no videogame ever plays enough like dungeons & dragons--because it's just too hard for a computer to adjucate things with with the flexibility of a human DM. The whole XP for killing bit came from there, because it was an easier condition to code for and lined up well with the non-rpg video games which already gave points for killing things.

Come to think about it...

...somebody teach Watson how to Referee.  :D
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2015, 08:22:24 AM »
D&D never tried to emulate computer RPGs. D&D was there before.

Video games tried to emulate D&D.

And indeed the best video games (Fallout, Elder Scrolls), do offer you rewards for overcoming challenges without necessarily murderizing everything.

It's 99,99% thanks to D&D that we have so many computer RPGs to choose from nowadays.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 09:23:41 PM »
There is a kernel of truth in the above. It is how people from the outside see the system.

The rebuttal could have been more ... well just more. Still I think aDMg's kitty wasn't in the room or something, because it's a nice long post.

The two things I'd like to say is A) predestination isn't about the communtativity/tense of choosing. It is about if the operation of choosing is even really a thing before the fact.

B) do people award XP if you dominate a monster? I can see a diplomaNcy session giving xp, but not a lucky charm spell...

(click to show/hide)

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 12:59:59 PM »
There is a kernel of truth in the above. It is how people from the outside see the system.

The rebuttal could have been more ... well just more. Still I think aDMg's kitty wasn't in the room or something, because it's a nice long post.

The two things I'd like to say is A) predestination isn't about the communtativity/tense of choosing. It is about if the operation of choosing is even really a thing before the fact.

B) do people award XP if you dominate a monster? I can see a diplomaNcy session giving xp, but not a lucky charm spell...

(click to show/hide)

You get XP for overcoming the encounter. A lucky charm spell is just as valid as a lucky finger of death or flesh to Stone.
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Offline Samwise

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 05:15:04 PM »
The rebuttal could have been more ... well just more. Still I think aDMg's kitty wasn't in the room or something, because it's a nice long post.

You want one?  ;)

I'd be happy to tear that Slate clown a new hole in his . . . dicebag . . . however belated it may be, just for general reference.

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 08:50:42 PM »
The rebuttal could have been more ... well just more. Still I think aDMg's kitty wasn't in the room or something, because it's a nice long post.

You want one?  ;)

I'd be happy to tear that Slate clown a new hole in his . . . dicebag . . . however belated it may be, just for general reference.

Well, I do love a good roast--though I'm not sure if this board's policies permit the kind of invective that would be called for. :devil

Also, looking at my previous post I'm now tempted to write up a custom spell that conjures a bowl of "magically delicious" cereal.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 04:49:06 PM »
Heh ;  it's well after the fact, even if he still deserves it.

Not that I know exactly what my kitty avatar's Tail  was doing back then ...

iirc - I think I figured the simplist thing to do with him,
was quote really basic rules at him.  I could have
trotted out 1e, but the 3.5e SRD was easier access.


... predestination isn't about the communtativity/tense of choosing. It is about if the operation of choosing is even really a thing before the fact ...


Whoa , let's not go hurtling past Freshman Introductory Calvinism (wink).

I think the angle I may have had in mind at the time, would be something like:

a Pit Fiend has had 1000's of years to contemplate why + how,
it made it's way up the Infernal chain, doing Exactly And Only (!)
what Asmo + Baator want, for so soooo long.  And not doing it
on it's own at all, rather a greater power guides it fully and completely,
with yummy toasted dead kittens. 
{lets call it: Robots Of Asmo}

versus
a Paladin Of Tyranny sure of his total freewill -- his will got him "down"
to the 9th level of Baator, to learn the next individually chosen steps,
in his soon to be Divine Rank Zero, fawning deadly sycophants for the win.
{lets call it: how I make me-self into a demigodling}


I wasn't trying for something complicated like Bytopia, those critters are  :twitch cra-cra-crazy.
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Offline Mystwalker

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Re: [Archive] ... Open Letter to Slate.Com's Erik Sofge
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 01:06:27 PM »
Wow. Reading his article makes me think he has either A: Never played D&D, or B:played once with one of the worst DMs in the history of the game, or C: has absolutely no creative imagination whatsoever.