Author Topic: MtG Deck Critique Thread  (Read 9777 times)

Offline sirpercival

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MtG Deck Critique Thread
« on: February 10, 2012, 07:12:48 PM »
So, I haven't played (or bought) MtG steadily in many years (since Darksteel), and I was never more than a casual player.  I have no idea what new cards are out there, or if my strategies are no longer viable.  I'd love some guidance (since I just downloaded Cockatrice).

I'm sure there are others like me on the boards, who'd like to discuss MtG strategies as they relate to specific deck ideas.  Hopefully there are others who are more fluent in the current game, who can help out.  :)  So this is a friendly thread for such things.

I'll go first; here are a few deck ideas, mildly-updated versions of old decks I used to play.

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« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 10:58:05 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline Nemo

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 09:28:49 PM »
People may or may not rage quit at the instant they see Disciple of the Vault. Unsure how people on Cockatrice behave, cuz I play on Lackey ;P.
For Slivers, focusing on White-Blue and adding some control may be better than going simply all creatures. Also, if you like concept of Slivers, then try Allies, they evolved from "super-slivers" idea.
Lately, I'm in love with milling, and I'm trying to do some odd colored decks. While I don't have yet any idea for green-blue or green-black milling, I tried doing some white blue
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Played it like once or twice, and walls helped greatly, especially Wall of Denial. Though I fear it might be too slow.


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This one was supposed to control the board by constant bouncing of enemy creatures or winning by massive milling using the bounce to bounce creatures of my own. In the end, it never won by milling, instead killing opponents with Blademasters who are really ridiculous.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 09:34:38 PM by Nemo »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 09:30:12 PM »
Traumatize?
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Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 10:51:26 PM »
Traumatize?

For an Ally-focused Mill deck? It would be a better idea to use Harabaz Druid and Rite of Replication (targeting Halimar Excavator, natch).


@Nemo: You could probably cut the Ancestral Visions for Jwari Shapeshifters or Phantasmal Images (possibly both). And an alternate kill mechanic is Quicksilver Gargantuan, although Frost Titan or Jace 3.0 would be more successful in most games.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 03:56:26 PM »
Somehow I don't like Traumatize :< unless it's comboed with Keening Stone. Rite of Excavator Nuke is cool, but I tried it in other deck. Phantasmal Image idea is really cool though  :lol totally forgot about this creature outside of Illusions Decks!
And Jaces are good and all, but I simply don't like him as a character.
Talking about Traumatize, I have it here

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This deck is quite fun to play, probably funniest of my 12 Post Decks. Which makes me scratch my head about why the fuck I forgot to pust Surgical Extraction into my previous mill decks.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 07:48:01 PM »
It's a shame 12 Post isn't legal in Modern anymore...
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 07:26:15 AM »
Ooh a deck thread?

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If it looks a little odd, well the deck isn't in my laptop...

Tips outside of moar Disenchant/Hull Breach? Other than tossing in the new lands/golem, I haven't updated it since way before the return to Mirrodian.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 10:14:54 PM »
Just a word of advice, there are several removal spells in White that are better than Disenchant (Oblivion Ring, Return to Dust, Aura of Silence).

Otherwise, what kind of budget do you have for this Sliver deck? I assume you don't want to be buying Shocklands or A/B/U Duals, but would you be opposed to Painlands or Alara Trilands? The only other major issues I see are efficient creatures and protection effects. Specifically, several creatures you listed are rather bad in Sliver-builds (Spinneret Sliver, Hunter Sliver, Fury Sliver, Volrath's Laboratory), and some cards you are running just aren't worth it as a 1-of (Two-Headed Sliver, Bloomtender, War Cadence), and you don't have a way to recover from any kind of sweeper effect (which are the bane of Sliver decks the world around).

I'd give a few suggestions, but I'm dead-tired after a 5K Starcity tourney.
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 10:23:12 PM »
Yay, a deck thread, and very timely since I've just gotten back into the game after an 8 year hiatus^^ 

For those that have been playing the last several years, what sets have enough good cards to pick up boxes?  I play with a group that pretty much allows anything (Vintage rules essentially, with a few more restrictions depending on what type of format we're doing that day)

I went and picked up a box of 2012 and Dark Ascension, are there others that I should look at picking up?

Offline brujon

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 03:20:14 AM »
Yay, a deck thread, and very timely since I've just gotten back into the game after an 8 year hiatus^^ 

For those that have been playing the last several years, what sets have enough good cards to pick up boxes?  I play with a group that pretty much allows anything (Vintage rules essentially, with a few more restrictions depending on what type of format we're doing that day)

I went and picked up a box of 2012 and Dark Ascension, are there others that I should look at picking up?

Well, every block has some beastly cards, but that depends on what you like to play. What you like to play?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 03:51:51 AM »
Just a word of advice, there are several removal spells in White that are better than Disenchant (Oblivion Ring, Return to Dust, Aura of Silence).

Otherwise, what kind of budget do you have for this Sliver deck? I assume you don't want to be buying Shocklands or A/B/U Duals, but would you be opposed to Painlands or Alara Trilands? The only other major issues I see are efficient creatures and protection effects. Specifically, several creatures you listed are rather bad in Sliver-builds (Spinneret Sliver, Hunter Sliver, Fury Sliver, Volrath's Laboratory), and some cards you are running just aren't worth it as a 1-of (Two-Headed Sliver, Bloomtender, War Cadence), and you don't have a way to recover from any kind of sweeper effect (which are the bane of Sliver decks the world around).

I'd give a few suggestions, but I'm dead-tired after a 5K Starcity tourney.
No set budget, just as cheap as possible. I would like to get two more Gemhides through, those guys are pretty handy if you get them out early. And yeah Coat of Arms would probably be nice, but I've never picked one up yet so I doubt that'll change.

Some of those Slivers you listed can be side boarded or droped if I had a replacement, which is kind of my point in listing it. On the same token I'd got a dozen Disenchants laying about too I can throw in if need be but looking for something better. I'm liking that Aura of Silence. That actually fits in pretty good, penalize playing arty/enchant cards against me and threaten removal.

On the lands, Trilands are often too slow but only need 4 so maybe. Painlands should be fine, is there a Sliver that gives Lifelink by any chance?

As for dealing with wipes. Best card I can think of is Second Sunrise. Thoughts?

Edit - Oh and War Cadence is like a trump card. Drop it and pretty much everything is unblockable. The provokers let you take out creatures that would otherwise annoy you too. Like without the spinners how do you block a creature with flying? Make it block your stronger attacker on your turn. Sort of the brute force of creature removal. Generally works too since the bigger hulks take a bit to get out which allows plenty of time to flood the field. I really think I need more, they let me control my opponents creatures really.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 03:58:00 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 04:17:45 AM »
Yay, a deck thread, and very timely since I've just gotten back into the game after an 8 year hiatus^^ 

For those that have been playing the last several years, what sets have enough good cards to pick up boxes?  I play with a group that pretty much allows anything (Vintage rules essentially, with a few more restrictions depending on what type of format we're doing that day)

I went and picked up a box of 2012 and Dark Ascension, are there others that I should look at picking up?

Well, every block has some beastly cards, but that depends on what you like to play. What you like to play?

I play mostly blue/white heavy control or green stompy.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 10:59:47 AM »
Yay, a deck thread, and very timely since I've just gotten back into the game after an 8 year hiatus^^ 

For those that have been playing the last several years, what sets have enough good cards to pick up boxes?  I play with a group that pretty much allows anything (Vintage rules essentially, with a few more restrictions depending on what type of format we're doing that day)

I went and picked up a box of 2012 and Dark Ascension, are there others that I should look at picking up?
Right now, the best sets to buy are NPH and INN (DKA's rares are fairly low-value). NPH has SoWaP, Surgical Extraction, Obliterator, the Phybrid 1 mana spells, and a bunch of solid rares.

Some Slivers worth running:

Bonesplitter Sliver
Essence Sliver
Homing Sliver
Horned Sliver
Pulmonic Sliver
Victual Sliver
Ward Sliver

Other cards worth looking into:

Beastmaster Ascension
Door of Destinies
All Suns' Dawn
Creeping Renaissance
Second Sunrise
Genesis Wave


As for blocking fliers: If you are in the position where your opponent can kill you with fliers, you lost several turns ago. Slivers is a very aggressive deck, and being defensive with it means you will lose. Essence Sliver will allow you to regain more life than most fliers can take off of you in a single combat, and Victual Sliver can add more if need be (you may want Brood Sliver in the deck if you don't want to sac creatures).

I think you will find that Two-Headed Sliver will do far more damage than War Cadence does if played properly. There's a reason it's a 4-of in Sliver decks.


I'd actually go full 5-color with the Sliver deck, just so you can use Shadow, Winged, and Hibernation Slivers (and Twilight's Call/Patriarch's Bidding/Living End).
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2012, 01:26:56 AM »
Ugh I hate five color decks >.<

Anyway, in no real order.
Two-Headed: Only have one, will consider ordering more as I get more of an idea of what I'm doing.
Essence: Amazing band brings tears to my eyes. Not all joy either, as I plan out my next purchase I might spring for a few.
Victual Sliver: Sucks, 2 & sac for +4 life? I'll pass.
Horned Sliver: More expensive than Brawn, and more easily removed (save for the whole zombie theme going on).
Ward Sliver: Interaction? I know it don't prevent blanket effects so presumably protection form white doesn't prevent Sinew's bonus?
Pulmonic Sliver: idk, 5 mana, dual white, only works once in. Maybe 2 as filler to replace something worse.
Bonesplitter Sliver: I like the (2) for +1/+1 instead of 3R for +2/+0. Cheap = Speed.
Beastmaster Ascension: Kind of slow. Could take 2~3 turns to get going vs even a mere +1/+1 three turns sooner. But I like it.
Genesis Wave: Love it, huge potential for card advantage.
Door of Destinies: Seen it, like it, love it, want it. My birthday is in August and I accept Gift Cards.
Creeping Renaissance: I like that it can work a turn after a wipe, let's me always play aggressively without having to hold mana to respond to an opponent. Cheaper than the door too :)


Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 10:49:04 AM »
Victual Sliver: Sucks, 2 & sac for +4 life? I'll pass.

Someone doesn't know the value of a sac outlet.

Quote
Ward Sliver: Interaction? I know it don't prevent blanket effects so presumably protection form white doesn't prevent Sinew's bonus?

Correct. Whatever color you choose does not affect your Slivers' abilities.

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Pulmonic Sliver: idk, 5 mana, dual white, only works once in. Maybe 2 as filler to replace something worse.

Trust me on this: It saves your life. Your deck is very vulnerable to Wrath effects in general, and Pulmonic Sliver's mana cost is more than worth it. I played Slivers back in Time Spiral block, and if this one resolved it was game over for my opponent.

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Beastmaster Ascension: Kind of slow. Could take 2~3 turns to get going vs even a mere +1/+1 three turns sooner. But I like it.

This one card is deadly. The alternative is Overwhelming Stampede, but that's a one-shot effect and can be disrupted in more ways than Ascension can.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2012, 10:55:23 AM »
Hey Sinfire, at your suggestion I made a couple of Commander decks.  Having never built them before, I'm not really sure what kind of strategies to use.  Thoughts?  Also, I'd love a Commander game at some point.

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Offline Nemo

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2012, 11:05:38 AM »
Green Sun Zenith is pretty cool in Slivers for cheating in Sliver Overlord. Genesis Wave is great with Slivers and Allies. Chord of Calling also is great, especially here, because with enough creatures, you can basically cast it for free. Also remember that it's an instant, so with some Vigilance tech, it's basically "flash target sliver onto battlefield".

Green+White is also cool for little tricks like Day of Judgement + Wrap in Vigor.
Two Headed Slivers are mighty annoying! Though Crystaline Slivers are probably even more...maybe because I play usually games with heavy anticreature tech.
Green-Blue control Slivers with not really heavy on damage, but poison slivers are also MIGHTY annoying. That's probably only Sliver deck of my friend that I'm losing against constantly. Poison Sliver is fucked up. Extra bonus for it being really easily fetchable by Green Sun's Zenith.

Anyone here playing on Lackey? Or, is there a easy way to convert decks from Lackey to Cockatrice?

« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 11:42:09 AM by Nemo »

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2012, 12:01:06 PM »
Hey Sinfire, at your suggestion I made a couple of Commander decks.  Having never built them before, I'm not really sure what kind of strategies to use.  Thoughts?  Also, I'd love a Commander game at some point.

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Couple of things for the Cockatrice version:

A suggestion I make to everyone playing an aggro-deck: Kozilek or Ulamog. You need a way to recycle your graveyard because you will get hit with Wrath effects a lot.

As far as mana rocks go, the Borderposts are fairly bad in EDH (especially with only 6 basic lands).

Apocalpyse Hydra isn't very useful with Mayael's ability, in spite of the fact that it is Naya-oriented. X spells in general aren't that good for Mayael.

I'm seeing a large number of very inefficient beaters. Specifically, Autochthon Wurm, Blitz Hellion, Bull Cerodon, Cerodon Yearling, Gloryscale Viashino, Godsire, Hearthfire Hobgoblin, Johan, Knotvine Paladin, Naya Hushblade, Phytohydra, Razia, Rip-Clan Clasher
Skyknight Legionnaire, Tolsimir Wolfblood, and Wilt-Leaf Cavalier.

Some suggestions for replacements:
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This raises your deck to a fairly steep curve, but that's easily solved via good mana acceleration (which you have access to).

Given that you don't have that many X spells (and I've suggested Teeg), I don't think Rosheen will be very helpful.

Hunting Grounds and Trace of Abundance aren't that efficient. The latter because it's an aura and prone to being a casualty in a sweeper, and the former because threshold is not something you want to achieve. Some suggestions (pick to; most of them are more expensive, but are more likely to help you out):

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Heroe's Reunion and Lightning Helix are bad in EDH. Replace the former with Beast Within and the latter with Decimate.

Cut down on the Planeswalkers. Namely, Chandra Ablaze (you lack red instants and sorceries), Elspeth Tirel (she's shit in almost every format, and only played in Standard because the Token deck is really good), Koth of the Hammer (you are playing three colors), and Nissa Revane (you are not running anywhere near enough elves to justify her, and I hate her with a fiery passion). Possibly Ajani Vengeant too, but he's actually capable of winning a game.

Cut Fossil Find, Pure//Simple, Reborn Hope, and Waves of Aggression.

Some spells that will help:

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Some help fixing your mana base:

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I'm going to give you advice similar to what I gave to SorO: You need Wrath protection. Tsabo's Decree, Hallowed Burial, Death Cloud, Life's Finale, and good old Wrath of God ruin you. Also, an entirely creature-based deck is going to burn itself out very quickly. And I mean VERY quickly. Once you are in topdeck mode, you are effectively out of the game entirely. Furthermore, several of the Slivers are not worth running.

Your manabase is also fairly weak (despite being mostly multicolor lands). The more effects you run that can tap for mana of any color, the more likely you are to be able to cast any spell in your hand.

Take a look at these decklists. Look at their Slivers and their noncreature spells.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 12:22:12 PM »
There is a land that basically ads any color of mana which can be only used to cast creature spells. Other land (Reflection Pool?) adds any color of mana you can produce.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: MtG Deck Critique Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 12:36:08 PM »
There is a land that basically ads any color of mana which can be only used to cast creature spells. Other land (Reflection Pool?) adds any color of mana you can produce.

Ancient Ziggurat isn't that good, even in a creature-heavy deck.
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