Author Topic: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?  (Read 15215 times)

Offline Childe

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Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« on: November 13, 2011, 12:39:33 AM »
A simple question with less than simple answers. Do you find that rolling for HP makes the game more exciting and adds investment in the character, or do you feel that it just makes people bitter when the dice gods (TM) scorn them and creates dissatisfaction with imperfect characters? In short, it is a worthwhile mechanic that adds to a positive experience?

I don't intend this to be a 3.5 v 4e discussion, though obviously the newer edition has gone one direction on this issue. This is focused on 3.5 gameplay.
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2011, 12:45:27 AM »
Well, I know this saying gets tossed around a lot - but low hit points hurt a lot more than high hit points help.  But my players do enjoy rolling for it, so what we do is roll, but reroll on anything less than half.  It still gives the players a little bit of excitement, but I know they're not going to be screwed.

But if I had to choose between straight rolling or taking the average, I would go with the average every time.

Offline veekie

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2011, 01:05:47 AM »
Well, my players luck tends to be swingy, so for the most part we'd rather not cast it in stone.

I do roll for monster hp though. Keeps them on their toes.
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Offline Nachofan99

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2011, 01:41:33 AM »
We roll, with the option of re-rolling and subtracting 1 from the result for each re-roll.  So sometimes, you simply get low HP - but overall you just get better than average HP.

It kind of addresses both concerns.  We like to roll so we roll for everything; sometimes random shit happens so we accept it both positively and negatively.

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2011, 07:08:30 AM »
Dread. Not only does it randomly screw over characters through no fault of their own, but it has a greater chance of screwing over the already weak classes. Luck is something that is always the enemy of the players, so anything that avoids that is good, and anything that draws out more of it is bad.

Offline kitep

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2011, 01:04:58 PM »
Max at 1st level, then roll for leveling up.  When I DM, I allow rerolls on 1/2 or less.  When others DM, they allow rerolls on 1s.

Then there was the player who made a wizard with CON as a dump stat, and took "frail" as a disadvantage.  8th level, 9 hit points.  Died in the 2nd battle.   :D  (And yes, he did do it as a joke)

Offline Havok4

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 01:26:10 PM »
Dread, I do not like it when my character has a significant chance of gaining almost nothing in terms of durability due to bad luck. This is  especially true for higher hit dice classes as they have much more swing involved with them.

Offline Orwell

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2011, 01:46:47 PM »
Dread. It's why my group just has a flat increase based on the average roll of your HD.

Offline Libertad

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2011, 02:23:47 PM »
Well, I know this saying gets tossed around a lot - but low hit points hurt a lot more than high hit points help.

Even if a lot of people say it, these are words to live by.

Offline weenog

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2011, 02:36:17 PM »
Neither thrill nor dread.  I like my level and class based improvements predictable, and nobody wants to be screwed by low HD rolls, but it's not a huge deal to me.  If I'm setting up something liable to take a lot of punishment, and am forced to roll, I set Con high enough that nothing but 1s for HD will still be survivable.  Sure it's a nuisance having to take some points out of another ability score to do that, if I do, but it's just one more issue you work around when you're playing an actual game rather than theorycrafting.
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Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2011, 02:55:59 PM »
The thing about that is assumptions regarding survival are predicated around the assumptions of average HP and a solid Con. Rolling 1 point below average is for most intents and purposes identical to a -2 Con hit. Getting 1s on a D10? An 8 or 10 Con hit. Granted, you would need terrible luck indeed to get multiple 1s in that manner but often even a slight drop below the assumed defaults on HP turns two round kills into one round kills. Along the same lines, you would need a Con far beyond what the game will even allow you to start with to compensate for that as you can't have a 22 or 24 before accounting for racials, items, and other such boosters. Even if you wanted to, you can't.

I've been in one game that used random HP. My Wizard was a better tank than the party Fighter before accounting for spells, simply because we both averaged about 3 + Con per level but being a SAD character and a crafting capable character I had better stats. About an hour in we all agreed that was really dumb and used max HP.

Offline Ryu Hayabusa

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2011, 03:35:43 PM »
Rolling all the way and I love it. It's an awesome bit of fun, important rolls always are.

Offline veekie

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2011, 04:08:04 PM »
Random for monsters is pure fun though. They don't last more than one encounter to begin with, and it makes strategy a lot more flexible. Plus you can catch that guy checking the standard monster manual hp :)
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Offline X-Codes

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 04:13:51 PM »
I always roll d4s, and I can be convinced to roll d6s.  The downside is significantly lower than the upside with the d4, and the d6 it's still notable.  Only with larger dice to I take the average, because low HP do hurt more than high HP help.

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2011, 05:15:46 PM »
Random for monsters is pure fun though. They don't last more than one encounter to begin with, and it makes strategy a lot more flexible. Plus you can catch that guy checking the standard monster manual hp :)

Until the guy would do enough damage to kill the average, but not enough to kill the random number you generated dies because he couldn't kill the enemy fast enough. Same problem as PC HP being random, just manifesting in a different form.

Offline Ryu Hayabusa

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2011, 05:21:20 PM »
Random for monsters is pure fun though. They don't last more than one encounter to begin with, and it makes strategy a lot more flexible. Plus you can catch that guy checking the standard monster manual hp :)

Until the guy would do enough damage to kill the average, but not enough to kill the random number you generated dies because he couldn't kill the enemy fast enough. Same problem as PC HP being random, just manifesting in a different form.

So? Being able to kill the average HP value should be no guarantee you'll kill the individual monster in question. Variance happens, as does spells, feats or items that boost the monster's hit points anyway.

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2011, 05:25:08 PM »
Random for monsters is pure fun though. They don't last more than one encounter to begin with, and it makes strategy a lot more flexible. Plus you can catch that guy checking the standard monster manual hp :)

Until the guy would do enough damage to kill the average, but not enough to kill the random number you generated dies because he couldn't kill the enemy fast enough. Same problem as PC HP being random, just manifesting in a different form.

So? Being able to kill the average HP value should be no guarantee you'll kill the individual monster in question. Variance happens, as does spells, feats or items that boost the monster's hit points anyway.

So... now you have to jack your damage up even more just to not randomly die all the time. Want to have to do triple digits at level 6 just to not die all the time? Probably not. It can be done, but you probably wouldn't want to.

Offline Ryu Hayabusa

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2011, 05:27:22 PM »
Random for monsters is pure fun though. They don't last more than one encounter to begin with, and it makes strategy a lot more flexible. Plus you can catch that guy checking the standard monster manual hp :)

Until the guy would do enough damage to kill the average, but not enough to kill the random number you generated dies because he couldn't kill the enemy fast enough. Same problem as PC HP being random, just manifesting in a different form.

So? Being able to kill the average HP value should be no guarantee you'll kill the individual monster in question. Variance happens, as does spells, feats or items that boost the monster's hit points anyway.

So... now you have to jack your damage up even more just to not randomly die all the time. Want to have to do triple digits at level 6 just to not die all the time? Probably not. It can be done, but you probably wouldn't want to.

I like how you take something and use it to go off on some self-assured conclusion of your own. Nevermind, I'm not going to argue with someone like that. It's never worth it and they never listen.

Offline SneeR

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2011, 05:34:32 PM »
Nice.

I DMed a game where players only got Their CON mod hp or 1 every level, but they could offer the souls of the demons they killed for more hp. Most of them had max hp every level due to this.

I hate variability. Besides, getting a lot of hp whenever we level up makes it feel like there is more of a difference between this level and last level, thereby giving a greater sense of satisfaction from leveling up--the proof is on the paper!
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Offline veekie

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Re: Rolling For HP - Thrill or Dread?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2011, 05:40:10 PM »
Monster health wise?
A party of pure T4s would still kill it before it manages to do more than batter anyone, rolled or not, it adds a little unpredictability to combat, but the variance is generally within the same range as weapon damage for one character over a round. It spices things up because it increases monster durability at times without proportionately increasing monster offense, which allows you to beat on it more before it goes down.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.