Author Topic: D&D Astronomy  (Read 3169 times)

Offline Amechra

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4560
  • Thread Necromancy a specialty
    • View Profile
D&D Astronomy
« on: September 29, 2016, 11:14:47 PM »
So, Stormwrack has rules for "base spotting distance", where you can make a DC 20 Spot check to spot something at a given distance (based off of a table). If you're within half that distance, you can see it automatically.

Underdark has a similar rules for spotting light sources - you can spot light sources at a range equal to 20 times their radius of illumination if you're in complete darkness, or 10 times the radius if you're in low-light conditions.

Let's make a triplet of "reasonable" extensions:
1) If you're within 5 times the radius of a light source, you can spot it in bright light conditions.
2) We use the row for flying observers for anything that wouldn't be impeded by the rotation of the planet.
3) You can use the "hills or peaks" column for anything really big. Yes, this produces weird results.

So, let's look at our tools:
1) Normal spotting gives us a penalty of -1 on our Spot checks for every 10ft away we are.
2) Let's say that a spyglass doubles all distances involved (-1 for every 20 ft, and the base spotting distance is twice as far).
3) We're going to assume someone untrained in Spot who takes 20 on their roll for everything.

OK, so particularly large sunspots can be spotted from Earth without a telescope. Let's call that a DC 22 (because Joe Genero probably won't notice unless you point it out to him). Now, checking the proper row on the table, that tells that the Sun must be 100 miles and 20ft away. By extension, all of the other planets we can see have to be about that far away.

How about the moon? Well, we can see features on it automatically, so it has to be within 50 miles of Earth.

=---=

So, yep, if you can cast Teleport, you can go to the moon - I mean, it isn't that far away!
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4241
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 11:19:46 PM »
Aren't you missing size penalties to being spotted? Larger objects are easier to spot than smaller ones. Hide is counter to Spot even if it's not being used actively. Basically the sun not trying to actively hide assumes a failed or 0 on a roll to hide vs. your spot check.

Apply size penalties and the sun, and moon, are placed farther away that OP's calculations :D

Offline Kethrian

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Night Owl
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 08:48:32 AM »
You should actually extrapolate size columns beyond "hills and peaks" for objects that are truly massive.  Without doing that, you're saying that anyone who flies higher than 100 miles (not caring about how one survives at that height) suddenly cannot see the world below them anymore, which is stupid.  So obviously, things twice as big as a mountain should be visible at roughly twice the distance, then twice as big, double that, and so on.  Now figure out how big a "particularly large sunspot" is, how many doublings you have to make to get to that size, and extrapolate distance from that.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Keldar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • What's this button do?
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 10:43:55 AM »
You are well within the illuminated area of the Sun and Moon, no check needed.    :p

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 03:27:22 PM »
hmm, so real life, you look up at an Airplane going by at 6 miles (10 km)
and can notice it, but get no details.

Doodling along side it, is Apollo riding his chariot = looks like the sun.  "Sun" has it's own light.
But that means the Sky has it's own intrinsic Light, separately from the dippy Sun barge/chariot thing.

Not that I have a problem with it, this is D&D not real world Physics.

Nanobots can see Apollo's sandals, and whether the Nymphs (the real ones of myth and legend) have given him a Pedicure lately.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016, 03:37:50 PM »
Knowledge Arcana contains Astrology.
Master Astrologer is a PrC in drag mag.
Sublime Chord requires Profession (Astrologer) but otherwise doesn't use it.
... and that's it for those.

Knowledge Geography of all things includes Astronomer.  Must admit minor cognitive dissonance on this.  But it seems most connected to :  navigating by ship ; as a separate thing from Profession (Sailor) , so there you go.
Tinker Gnomes have a 1 sentence mention.

Knowledge Geography has >100 entries, some more info might be buried in there.

**

Profession Astrology has some crunch to it.
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/skills/profession.shtml

Green Star Adept PrC has 1 sentence of fluff.
Realmshelps has a handful of fluff entries.
Cursed items get 1 line in a table.

Knight Of The Middle Circle PrC has 1 sentence of Astronomer fluff.
Moon Portals / Moonwood Portals have 1 line of Astronomer crunch.


Could claim somehow, that the Legendary Captain PrC ability :
Uncanny Navigation (Su): On reaching 3rd level, you develop an innate sense for detecting and avoiding maritime hazards. You add your legendary captain level as a bonus on Spot checks to notice aquatic hazards and on Profession (sailor) checks to navigate safely through them.
... applies to the Elemental Plane Of Water (which probably has nothing to do with Astronomy).

 :???
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016, 03:53:02 PM »
Quote
Knowledge Geography of all things includes Astronomer.  Must admit minor cognitive dissonance on this. 
It is one of the major ways people used to navigate back in the day.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline FireInTheSky

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3870
  • "Insight is the sudden cessation of stupidity."
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016, 06:59:32 PM »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 05:34:37 PM »
Me and my modernisms  :tongue ... oceanography

But good point Solo, the Pacific got settled in pre-history, circa 3000 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples#Migration_and_dispersion
Absolutely accurate Knowledge Geography to do Astronomy based navigating.

More fantasy related, but pseudo-science Astronomy :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies#1421:_The_Year_China_Discovered_the_World
... "discovery" of Southern Africa, the Americas, Antarctica, and Australia,
via really awesome navigating skills, that all of them somehow forgot.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 05:16:57 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2016, 05:14:25 PM »
5001 foot Peak, can be seen by Flying, at a distance of 100 miles.
And Flying is 2 to 4 times higher than a Masthead of 20 to 100 feet.

If we assume that vision distance is through a medium of some sort
that is more-or-less the same going up as it is going sideways ...
(and its a rather large assumption, so says Pazuzu) ... any 1 specific
mythology could say their Sun God is >> their Mountain God, and
so of course the Sun is bigger than that Mountain over there.

You could see the Sun at distance of 100 miles if you were flying.
Since most Commoners are not flying yet can see the Sun,
we must assume the Sun is much closer than that.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: D&D Astronomy
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2016, 08:30:14 PM »
Maybe it is?
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."