Author Topic: Souls Reborn  (Read 7009 times)

Online Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6187
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 08:19:43 AM »
So, I've mostly ironed out the PC/Cohort, with a couple questions. First off, should the cohort be a different race than human? Main ones in mind are Dwarf and Warforged. Second one is where to go with feats, since I've got a fair pile and haven't taken any yet. General thoughts are Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip for the PC (that leaves one feat slot still open), and Combat Expertise and Improved Trip for the cohort if human.

Last bit is the commander auras - since they'll be affecting the whole party, figure the rest of you should get a say. 3 are available currently. Was personally leaning towards Toughness, Vigor, and either Attack or Transfer of Power.

(click to show/hide)

Current plan is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Offline FireInTheSky

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3869
  • "Insight is the sudden cessation of stupidity."
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 11:39:49 AM »
Huh, I forgot that I'd expressed interest in this game the first time around, too. I'm going to have to think about my original idea, too (anthropomorphic bat thaumaturge with a goal of cataloguing the sounds of magic).

Sound Shaper :D

Offline Quillwraith

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 08:05:16 PM »
Spells (armored 22% asf: 0th Mage Hand, Least Wish (aka prestidigitation); 1st Cheat, Scholar's Touch; 2nd Heroics, Mirror Move.

Could you give more details on the 'Marker' feats? You said wizard-like casting, but neither wizards nor spellthieves get second level spells at level 2.

I can understand that, which is also why I referenced Milo.

Red Mage from 8bit comic is essentially what you're talking about. So wrapped up in the meta he doesn't pay attention to what's happening in front of him. HP&Nd20'stake on things is much more milder, more like the observation on some of the rules of reality such as normally casting a spell every six seconds, or that special people come along and change things, or the law of reality are actually subjective thinks to the over deity DM favoring spectacular stories and will step in if the rules of reality are abused.
It's generally my view that the rules like rounds being six seconds exactly are abstractions for the sake of making a playable game, and not actually true in-setting. That doesn't mean you can't play a character that's aware of them, of course, it'd just mean that from the perspective of anyone else in the setting, he's crazy, even though we as players know that he's right, in a way.

Also, I'm going to name one of the first heroes after Milo, now that I think of it. 




Character ideas (In no particular order):

Gambler - Social/skill/Chrisma based martial adept
Death Knight - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
Elemental Adept - Pew pew.  Uses a new casting system (spellshaping, like spells combined with maneuvers).
I have a slight preference for Gambler or Death Knight over Elemental Adept for reasons of plot hook compatibility.  Any choice you make is good, though.

Death Knight - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
The campaign has no Positive/Negative Energy Plane, it's split into a bunch of different Elven-ruled planes.
I'm not sure where you're getting 'elven-ruled'. The negative planes are mostly uninhabited except by creatures unharmed by negative energy or storing enough to ignore; this does not include most humanoids. There isn't really any one group that rules the negative planes, though if anyone could be said to, it would be the Queen of Air and Darkness,



So, I've mostly ironed out the PC/Cohort, with a couple questions. First off, should the cohort be a different race than human? Main ones in mind are Dwarf and Warforged. Second one is where to go with feats, since I've got a fair pile and haven't taken any yet. General thoughts are Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip for the PC (that leaves one feat slot still open), and Combat Expertise and Improved Trip for the cohort if human.

Last bit is the commander auras - since they'll be affecting the whole party, figure the rest of you should get a say. 3 are available currently. Was personally leaning towards Toughness, Vigor, and either Attack or Transfer of Power.

(click to show/hide)

Current plan is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Looks fine. Feat-wise, maybe martial study? Devoted Spirit or White Raven could fit the character, though I suppose the way IL works may incentivize holding off for a few levels.

Online Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6187
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 08:52:36 PM »
I thought about it, but the cohort gets manoeuvres for free, as it were. Might have Bob grab the White Raven feats instead of Tr'Bon.

Still not sure about that last one. I'll have to raid a few more handbooks.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6795
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 09:58:46 PM »
Could you give more details on the 'Marker' feats? You said wizard-like casting, but neither wizards nor spellthieves get second level spells at level 2.
Oh, yeah I suppose it's a little misleading. I'm supposed to prepick all the spells when the Feat is taken but I doubt the game last long enough to gain three levels to worry about charting beyond the 2nd level so that's all the further I went. But what I can cast is still only up to the 1st level. Through I think I did use Heroics as an example of repeating via Juggle the Numbers which probably didn't help, eh all well.

And yes I see the six seconds / one attack thing as abstracts, normally, but I'm going a different direction with flavor. And on the Elves.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 10:01:33 PM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Online Nanshork

  • Homebrew Connoisseur
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11093
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2016, 12:04:55 AM »
I can go with Gambler or Death Knight, either way I'm melee focused and that helps others who might be on the fence about their role.

What's the Cosmological view of Negative Energy and Undead?  Still the default of Evil?

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4300
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2016, 12:40:13 AM »
Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?

Offline Dr_emperor

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2016, 09:15:59 AM »
So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 09:39:01 AM by Dr_emperor »

Offline Quillwraith

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2016, 12:17:20 PM »
Elves, Fey, what's the difference? Murder them all.
They're not particularly related, but if you want to murder planes, feel free to try anyway.

What's the Cosmological view of Negative Energy and Undead?  Still the default of Evil?
  Negative energy and undead aren't inherently evil, but if a spell is tagged as [Evil] or a creature's alignment given as 'always evil' in the rulebooks, that's still true. Thus, most of the common spells that use negative energy are Evil, as are most common types of undead, as are most necromancers. This is mostly because, although negative energy isn't evil, the deities who've laid claim to it are.

Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?
The Ways were a casualty of revision; the Maze now connects both the positive and negative planes, and is counted among both.

So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon

Masked Moon is of more than standard power for a martial discipline; maybe replacing Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw for a swordsage?

Using Obscured Existence as a non-warlock seems questionable. Could you tell me a bit more about what you're aiming for with that?

Spirit Sense is allowed.

Online Nanshork

  • Homebrew Connoisseur
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11093
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2016, 12:22:54 PM »
Okay, I'll wait to see how party alignment pans out before choosing between my two options.

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4300
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2016, 12:26:25 PM »
Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?
The Ways were a casualty of revision; the Maze now connects both the positive and negative planes, and is counted among both.

You still list The Ways as the home of the Seelie Fey court, so you might want to update that as well. Are both courts supposed to rule parts of The Maze, or something?

Offline Quillwraith

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2016, 05:59:58 PM »
Yeah, it's a two-layered plane, half positive and half negative. I'll add more about the negative-aligned planes to the world thread today or tomorrow.

Offline Dr_emperor

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2016, 09:45:41 PM »

So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon

Masked Moon is of more than standard power for a martial discipline; maybe replacing Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw for a swordsage?

Using Obscured Existence as a non-warlock seems questionable. Could you tell me a bit more about what you're aiming for with that?

Spirit Sense is allowed.

 The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers.  I do understand. I was kind of looking to switch out most of the swordsage disciplines.  In the end I want one ranged discipline (still looking), masked moon, and a debilitating discipline which obscured existence worked for, but there are other ways to improve an intimidate score.  Everything else would be gravy.

Also agree on the trade for Masked Moon.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6795
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2016, 11:20:03 PM »
The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers
fyi, Warlocks are far from MAD. Every caster needs Int/Wis/Cha for casting, Dex for Rays/AC/Initiative, and Con for HP (unless going undead). However a Warlock can ditch the offensive need for Dexterity by using Eldritch Glaive and over half his Invocations don't even have a Save DC nor does he gain any Bonus Spells making his Charisma pretty tankable. Hell, with a Desecrate Corpsecrafter Necromancer led Necropoliton ritual you can ditch Constitution and use a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item[persist] on a Minor Schema of Devil's Ego to enable using Hellfire and land a +4 profane bonus to Charisma. I guess what I'm saying here is a Warlock is probably the second least MAD casters in the game, the only thing better than it is the DFA because everything worthwhile runs off it's Constitution.

Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place. I might go Warblade using custom Disciplines too. I can drop Marker Mayhem for Weapon Finesse (which gives dex-to-dmg) and 900gp is one hell of a terrible limit to mange arrows too so Ammo Written in Pencil would make a better 3rd level Feat than 1st, so maybe Point Blank Shot. A quick poke for some ranged Disciplines and I came up with this.
Any recommendations?
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Online Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6187
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 07:07:02 AM »
Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place.

Eh, I'm just planning on using White Raven, and otherwise sticking fairly close to ToB.

Offline Dr_emperor

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 10:04:22 AM »
Soro of those disciplines; Iron reign and Blood sage were the only ones that warblades could use, according to there text.  Swarming hornet is intended to be used with a homebrew class The hunter though it does have another discipline Striking eagle

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6795
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 11:56:15 AM »
Soro of those disciplines; Iron reign and Blood sage were the only ones that warblades could use, according to there text.
I'd like to introduce a new Discipline called Swarming Bees. It's mechanically similar to Swarming Hornet but the flavor is more mundane based.  :rolleyes

Asking a DM to allow things to me is synonymous with asking for tweaks. Strictly reading stuff means to need to have faith that the writer wrote mechanically comparable content. Like maybe they wrote Warblade mechanics, flavored it to be holy for the Crusader, intended it for the Swordsage, claimed it replaces Diamond Mind because archers focus on stuff, their 1st level Maneuver deals 1d6*IL, and they can dump one Spell Slot into it to cast the same Spell five times in a row (don't laugh, there is homebrew that does that).

If I wanted to break things, I don't need homebrew to do that. I just want to merge campaign-spells onto an archer and be comparable with the rest of the party. In theory the marker feats pretty much take care of one half of that.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Quillwraith

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 03:39:42 PM »
The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers.  I do understand. I was kind of looking to switch out most of the swordsage disciplines.  In the end I want one ranged discipline (still looking), masked moon, and a debilitating discipline which obscured existence worked for, but there are other ways to improve an intimidate score.  Everything else would be gravy.

Also agree on the trade for Masked Moon.
I'm a fan of Witch Razor for warlock-esque debuffs. I'll waive the feat tax if you choose it during character creation, though it still replaces Desert Wind. There's also Star Dream, which has one or two maneuvers I'd prefer to avoid, but looks reasonable overall, and particularly relevant.



Hell, with a Desecrate Corpsecrafter Necromancer led Necropoliton ritual you can ditch Constitution and use a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item[persist] on a Minor Schema of Devil's Ego to enable using Hellfire and land a +4 profane bonus to Charisma.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't, though. :P

Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place. I might go Warblade using custom Disciplines too. I can drop Marker Mayhem for Weapon Finesse (which gives dex-to-dmg) and 900gp is one hell of a terrible limit to mange arrows too so Ammo Written in Pencil would make a better 3rd level Feat than 1st, so maybe Point Blank Shot. A quick poke for some ranged Disciplines and I came up with this.
Any recommendations?
I'll allow Falling Star as a warblade discipline, replacing Diamond Mind or Iron Heart. Swarming Hornet likewise, replacing Diamond Mind or White Raven. I'm disinclined toward Vile Shaft and Solar Wind. I'll get back to you on the rest, probably tonight.



Bear in mind that during character creation, I'm mostly assuming your backstory covers where you learned any feat or discipline or whatever; if you want homebrew or unusual sourcebooks on level-up, you'll likely have to earn it in-game - find a scroll or a master of the discipline or  appease the Destiny Manipulator or whatever. If you've taken levels in a class or martial discipline already you can continue to advance in it, of course.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 04:17:50 PM by Quillwraith »

Offline Quillwraith

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 06:47:58 PM »
I'm sometimes willing to make exceptions, as you've seen, but what classes a discipline is meant for is definitely a consideration; for example I'd allow Solar Wind in the game, but I don't see it as suited enough to warblades to go against what it's creator said.

Anyway. Iron Rain is allowed, though I'd disprefer it to the other options, all else being equal. Mystical Rain likewise, replacing Tiger Claw, but Water Blessing stance is now second level.

Regarding Blood Sage: I'd generally be pretty open to adapting a discipline to ranged weapons, but Blood Sage is not just melee focused but limited to a specific class of weapons (light piercing or slashing), which makes me a bit more reluctant. How about...

Point Blank Precision [Fighter]
Prerequisites: IL 2, Dex 13
You can treat a ranged attack against an opponent within 10 feet of you as a melee attack for the purposes of martial maneuvers, although you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls if the opponent is not adjacent to you. Point Blank Precision can be used in place of Point Blank Shot to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability.

And at a later level I can write up a style feat based on Blood Sage and Falling Star that allows longer ranges.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6795
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Souls Reborn
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 11:49:27 PM »
I'd appreciate it if you didn't, though. :P
0:)

The Feat is probably fine through a little murderous. Because in order to dodge that -4 penalty I have to let my target attack me, ranged weapons provoke AoOs. But I think pretty much all those Disciplines offer a Stance to negate that. Also fyi bolts count as daggers when improvised in melee, I just happen to be shooting them. And it's that kind of logic is where I'm going anyway  :cool

And to be fair on Solar Wind and such I really didn't look to much at the Disciplines (well, I've known about blood sage for a while).
Any recommendations?
Was me literately asking for recommendations on which ones were decent. :P
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:53:59 PM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.