Author Topic: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)  (Read 37388 times)

Offline oslecamo

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The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« on: March 02, 2019, 10:05:10 PM »
As title says. Once groups are formed I'll probably make new OOC threads for each. I'll be replying to the questions in the recruitment thread here in a bit.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 10:49:38 PM »
Bookmarking.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2019, 11:34:40 PM »
Lots of questions piled up, if I missed any do let me know.

You can assume standard D&D Deities, Bonnie's Domains are Trickery and... Let's say Charm and Community.
Going with Hoar then, the LN demigod of poetic justice and retribution, and picking Law for the final domain choice.

Remember to don't pimp yourself too much, if you're one-rounding fire giants and young adult blue dragons then you may need to pause for a moment.
Is there anything in particular that is over the top or too cheesy?
I think the character is good at what he is intended to do (locking down anything marching towards the squishies) and has a few tricks for times when that isn't appropriate, but is definitively not someone who one-shots giants and dragons.
Ok, good.

Hey Osle - If I took say 5 levels of monstrous crab and took Crab Battle on one side of gestalt, then on the other side took 4 levels of (say) fighter, then 1 of warblade, would I have a total IL of 5, since the monstrous crab levels are supposed to be at full IL as per Crab Battle, and from what I understand, you take the "best" of everything at each level for gestalting and apply it to the character? I hope that makes sense, otherwise tell me :D

That's kinda a grey area in gestalt, in particular with things like, say, having spellcasting in one side then picking a casting prc in the other. So it depends on your build. If you won't be taking any more crab battles beyond 5th level, then it should be ok. But if you want to take maneuver related stuff in both sides beyond 5th level, not so much.

Also you had mentioned taking troll/bladerager, so if you also want to take Monstrous Crab as well then you'll need to take the Monster Blooded and Monster Hybrid feats which are needed in case you want to mix two base monster classes.

Also, so any ideas who the second team is working for?

This reminds me, when posting your character sheets please include one of the factions you would like to be working for (or at least a faction you don't want to be working for).

Oh I made the changes hours ago sorry xD

Oh wait shoot no I didn't lol. I remembered right now I forgot my 2 empty savage slots.

EDIT: Fixed it! Link is still like a page back.

Does Fast Healing from multiple Savage abilities stack?
Does Fast Healing from Savage stack with Fast Healing from other sources?
That actually determines whether I change Monster of Legend's Fast Healing out for something else. -_-'


Nevermind just switching it for Spell Turning.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1844808

You still have fast healing although it seems to come from Ancient skills.

Ayway you're still a bit too tough, you're two-rounding a fire giant with just lots of unarmed (with rend)/natural attacks hitting on a 1+ and although they can now realistically hurt your character, it would still take some six rounds of a Fire Giant fullattacking to drop you, and even if you stand between two fire giants so they get a flanking bonus and just full attack each other, chances are that you'll win that damage race. Again, before any maneuvers are used. May I suggest you swap some tanky Ancient skills like  Vanguard or Natural Insight for more utility stuff like Traveling or Blink Cut or Personal Book?

Mmm, I really wanted Natural Insight mostly for the party buffs/healing aspect of it -_-'  It also helps good ol' drunken tavern brawls last longer!
I'll switch Vanguard out for Personal Book, I really was considering that one anyways.

Admittedly, none of my maneuvers allow me to attack more than twice in a round so using a maneuver would also really cut down my DPR.

Dropped Yasha's Speed for Blink Cut, albeit its restriction of needing to not be damaged in the previous round seems like it'd be difficult to use to get out of danger. It's great for getting into danger though, haha.

I switched Holy Blessing for Personal Book 3 as well to cut back on the HP & Resistances but also to cut back on my self-healing. +25% does end up being a lot.

Edit: If I really must I guess I could drop Natural Insight for something.....might go for Shadowing over Traveler though. I think it's kinda funny that I have a super slow land speed because drunken fighter. But a really high fly speed because drunken driver.  :p
Now a couple fire giants flanking and full attacking can actually drop you below half HP in one round even with fast healing. Now you've still got Boosts like Feat of Strength that would increase your DPR or could just engage in a rock throwing match while keeping a distance, but  at least you're now squishy enough that if the fire giants manage to get the drop on you they may actually chop you fast enough, so that should be fine.

How much of an issue is fuel going to be?
Not much. You can buy "batteries" at game start at the same price/weight than ration trails, more mechanized factions like Automática could sell both extra batteries and fuel as cheap as basic food if you didn't do anything to really piss them off and even in more primitive cities/villages you could "cook" some fuel up from local materials with 8 hours work and 5 SP (price of a good meal) worst case scenario. You would only really need to worry about running out in case you're spending a lot of time in the wilderness and didn't pack enough extra batteries.

Would things be better if I just drop Savage and, like, I dunno, I'm a dragon so can I buy Hoard for free and do that? Equipment is just such a hassle!
If you prefer Hoard feel free to go for it, but again your character should be okayish right now that you don't have a bunch of extra HP and dropped the hardness.

Hey Osle, in addition to my previous question, I have another. If I wanted to take noble crab: hermit crab and use this http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3 as the shell - would that work? It says it has +18 natural armour, so would I gain all that as the shell?

Would it also be an acceptable opponent to have beaten? I would be taking this at level 5, and this is CR 6, which is totally doable with a party of level 5s. I'd also be stuck at large unless I wanted to lose the big armour bonus since that monster seems to be specified at only large.

Depends on the rest of your build. Having really high AC is acceptable as long as you're not combining it with a bunch of immunities and really high saves and huge HP and fast healing and DR/hardness and etc. :p

Uh, Os?  I'm concerned that my character might be more powerful than you want after your conversations with ketaro.

Character Sheet is here.

With my built in weapon I currently get a +15 to hit (+10 on second attack in a full attack) and do 6d6 damage (And there's no real reason for me to not take Rapid Shot).  My AC is 18 naked so it'll be in the mid-twenties when I get gear.

I have no feats, no gear, and no Trick Shots from Sniper which will make me better.  Please take a look at my character and make sure that you're okay with the power level that this is going towards.
Actually your DPR is lagging behind Ketaro's, 6d6 averages to 21 so even with rapid shot for 3 attacks that's 63 is while Ketaro's average fullattack is 23+19+15+9=66 before any special properties/boosts (his fist is holy/axiomatic and drains Dex). And Ketaro's character has significantly better to-hit, hitting the fire giant on 1+ while your character needs to roll 8+/12+, or 10+/10+/14+ with rapid shot which would further cut down your damage output.

Plus your Will save now is +11 for example and you're not immune to Stun so the Mind Flayers have a viable chance of stunning you. The Vrock can protect itself with Mirror image (average 6, which Ketaro can go around with Aoos) and close in with teleport or snipe back at you from 880 feet range with telekinesis, although you do have fast healing to shrugg off its spores. You also seem like you'll have less HP and not have some really high fly speed.

So there's still some room for you to pimp up, just don't pimp yourself too much further up.  :)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 11:39:09 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 11:42:21 PM »
Heh, I find myself stumped trying to evaluate my build choices against those options.

Because Evolved Undead lets you pick "undead can't attack you" and mindflayers are terrified of undead for a reason, so three of the encounters are largely me giving the enemy strange looks whilst wondering why they're going away. xD

My factional preference is adaptable. It is as much pro-Bonnie as anti-Bonnie, but probably weighted on the pro side because at least you can now report vampire slayers for being inconvenient nuisances.

Offline ketaro

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 11:48:37 PM »
That sounds good, but does Zen Trance make me too much, again? Wis to Dmg+AC for, effectively, a full combat and having 5 of them a day, well, there wouldn't be a fight where I wouldn't be able to Zen Trance.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2019, 12:19:29 AM »
Heh, I find myself stumped trying to evaluate my build choices against those options.

Because Evolved Undead lets you pick "undead can't attack you" and mindflayers are terrified of undead for a reason, so three of the encounters are largely me giving the enemy strange looks whilst wondering why they're going away. xD

My factional preference is adaptable. It is as much pro-Bonnie as anti-Bonnie, but probably weighted on the pro side because at least you can now report vampire slayers for being inconvenient nuisances.
The shadows and mind flayers are indeed auto-wins for you (as well as any other vampire PC really), but the skeletons+cleric still has the cleric component, which have access to all kind of anti-undead spells (and since vampires are kinda everywhere they would probably keep some prepared just in case). What's your performance if they do that? Or did you mean one of the other encounters?

That sounds good, but does Zen Trance make me too much, again? Wis to Dmg+AC for, effectively, a full combat and having 5 of them a day, well, there wouldn't be a fight where I wouldn't be able to Zen Trance.
Hmmm, +5 to damage and AC is significant, but then also needs a move action to get started so you can't count on it if you're surprised and also means you can't open at full power so I'm willing to try that out.

Although it may be safer if you could reduce your Str score a bit which would lower both your damage and defenses (then you still have Brute Strength to bring it back up a couple times per day).

Offline ketaro

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2019, 12:23:44 AM »
Hmmm....that's tough. The only thing to redistribute would be the +4 enhance to Str, but I also don't use Dex for anything, don't use Int for anything, and Oni Brawler lets me use Str for anything I needed Cha for...... -_-'

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2019, 12:25:03 AM »
Well I'll just finalize myself and we'll see what you think then.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2019, 12:26:08 AM »
Quote
The shadows and mind flayers are indeed auto-wins for you (as well as any other vampire PC really), but the skeletons+cleric still has the cleric component, which have access to all kind of anti-undead spells (and since vampires are kinda everywhere they would probably keep some prepared just in case). What's your performance if they do that? Or did you mean one of the other encounters?

The walking desecrate aura and I think Vampire Lord and Light Eater start to do bad things to general anti-undead stuff. Young Descendant of Tepes would be worse. The cleric winds up restricted to spells provided I can't hijack the skeletons somehow as a distraction tactic. Of the three they're the best off, but I'm pretty well-placed to be confused by them.
Sane rewording: I reject normal cleric anti-undead. They need to use spells. I take their undead off them.

Quote from: Evolved Undead
As a standard action, the Evolved Undead can gain control of any undead it can see if they fail a Will save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha mod.

AKA, the cleric loses because I take their skeletons
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 12:29:30 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline ketaro

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2019, 12:35:23 AM »
I think you mis-read that Rainy. The clerics are casting spells that are explicitly anti-undead spells at you. Not that they are clerics controlling hordes of undead against you. I mean they are but undead followers are kinda cannon fodder from the start lol.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2019, 12:49:28 AM »
They also lose their undead and have to contend with them, was my point. Sun effects are simply not applicable.Turn/Rebuke stuff is heavily penalised. I am not sure of applicable anti-undead spells at level 10 beyond that.

Offline ketaro

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2019, 01:04:01 AM »
Off the top of my head, Dust to Dust is undead disintegrate but lower level because racial restrictions. Sun effects would destroy all their undead that get turned against them to make it an even field again  :lmao

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2019, 01:16:57 AM »
Urgh, now that I'm working on gear it feels silly to me to have a built in gun and then have to carry around a magic bow.

Offline Jarob22

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2019, 04:01:35 AM »
Hey Osle - If I took say 5 levels of monstrous crab and took Crab Battle on one side of gestalt, then on the other side took 4 levels of (say) fighter, then 1 of warblade, would I have a total IL of 5, since the monstrous crab levels are supposed to be at full IL as per Crab Battle, and from what I understand, you take the "best" of everything at each level for gestalting and apply it to the character? I hope that makes sense, otherwise tell me :D

That's kinda a grey area in gestalt, in particular with things like, say, having spellcasting in one side then picking a casting prc in the other. So it depends on your build. If you won't be taking any more crab battles beyond 5th level, then it should be ok. But if you want to take maneuver related stuff in both sides beyond 5th level, not so much.

Also you had mentioned taking troll/bladerager, so if you also want to take Monstrous Crab as well then you'll need to take the Monster Blooded and Monster Hybrid feats which are needed in case you want to mix two base monster classes.

Hey Osle, in addition to my previous question, I have another. If I wanted to take noble crab: hermit crab and use this http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3 as the shell - would that work? It says it has +18 natural armour, so would I gain all that as the shell?

Would it also be an acceptable opponent to have beaten? I would be taking this at level 5, and this is CR 6, which is totally doable with a party of level 5s. I'd also be stuck at large unless I wanted to lose the big armour bonus since that monster seems to be specified at only large.

Depends on the rest of your build. Having really high AC is acceptable as long as you're not combining it with a bunch of immunities and really high saves and huge HP and fast healing and DR/hardness and etc. :p


I think what I might do is take Crab Battle then continue to take crab levels but not take CRAB BATTLE, CRAB BATTLE!, CRAB BATTLE!! or EYAH!!! CRAB BATTLE!!! - so I may end up with crab10 on one side then something 4/something 4/warblade 2 on the other (possibly taking the warblade levels at level breakpoints to get good stances, so I can take full advantage of the full ILs of the crab. That way I'm not getting maneuver stuff past the first Noble Crab pick but still have some synergy. Would that be ok?


Cool, I might pick that as a shell then. I'll make sure to work it into my fluff somehow.

I also decided not to take troll and go giant crab instead. I hope that doesn't come off as...shellfish. I'm going to be making crab based puns all game, I can see it now...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 04:16:37 AM by Jarob22 »

Offline Jarob22

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2019, 04:11:28 AM »
Edit edit: Came up with a different question - for Violinist crab, does the wording mean I can choose weapon enhancements AND shield enhancements for my crab claw? Could I have say ghost touch and +4 on it when it's in weapon mode, and Negating on it when it's used in shield mode? I could argue that different parts of it are enchanted like a double bladed weapon - when I hit with it I'm using pincer-type movement, but when shielding I'm using the outside of the claw, if you need persuading. :)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 04:55:55 AM by Jarob22 »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2019, 05:51:10 AM »
Hmmm....that's tough. The only thing to redistribute would be the +4 enhance to Str, but I also don't use Dex for anything, don't use Int for anything, and Oni Brawler lets me use Str for anything I needed Cha for...... -_-'

Actually I just went ahead and re-did the math for the other battles and now that you don't have hardness and less HP two blue dragons do manage to full attack you fast enough before you drop either of them (one on one you'll still punch them to death faster) even with you using Zen trance, while the vrocks can realistically kite you with telekinesis+teleport from 880 feet away (unless you have some way I missed to close that distance and one-shot a vrock), so that gives you 4 wins (fire giants, trolls, bebiliths, mind flayers) and 4 losses (vrocks, blue dragons, clerics+skeletons, shadows) against the double enemies battles.

Still something that you could do is swapping your Slow flaw for Vulnerable (-1 AC) and/or your illiterate trait (which is kinda cheesy when you're already illiterate from Savage) for Agressive for another -1 AC.

They also lose their undead and have to contend with them, was my point. Sun effects are simply not applicable.Turn/Rebuke stuff is heavily penalised. I am not sure of applicable anti-undead spells at level 10 beyond that.
Well luckily clerics have craploads of spells and if you spent your turn gaining control of their skeletons then they kinda did their job of keeping you busy for some time since they can't really hope to harm a buffed cleric either. :P

You did mention low HPish, so what are your odds of tanking standard blasting like a maximized empowered flame strike powered by divine metamagic?

Urgh, now that I'm working on gear it feels silly to me to have a built in gun and then have to carry around a magic bow.
Nothing wrong with having a backup weapon or two.

I think what I might do is take Crab Battle then continue to take crab levels but not take CRAB BATTLE, CRAB BATTLE!, CRAB BATTLE!! or EYAH!!! CRAB BATTLE!!! - so I may end up with crab10 on one side then something 4/something 4/warblade 2 on the other (possibly taking the warblade levels at level breakpoints to get good stances, so I can take full advantage of the full ILs of the crab. That way I'm not getting maneuver stuff past the first Noble Crab pick but still have some synergy. Would that be ok?
Ok.

Cool, I might pick that as a shell then. I'll make sure to work it into my fluff somehow.

I also decided not to take troll and go giant crab instead. I hope that doesn't come off as...shellfish. I'm going to be making crab based puns all game, I can see it now...
So like with Nanshork's character, would you prefer your character to be one of a kind or for there to be an awakened crab country or even crab communities around the world?  :p

Edit edit: Came up with a different question - for Violinist crab, does the wording mean I can choose weapon enhancements AND shield enhancements for my crab claw? Could I have say ghost touch and +4 on it when it's in weapon mode, and Negating on it when it's used in shield mode? I could argue that different parts of it are enchanted like a double bladed weapon - when I hit with it I'm using pincer-type movement, but when shielding I'm using the outside of the claw, if you need persuading. :)

That's ok too as long as your final numbers don't end up too crazy.

Offline Jarob22

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 07:01:51 AM »
Quote
So like with Nanshork's character, would you prefer your character to be one of a kind or for there to be an awakened crab country or even crab communities around the world?  :p
I kinda like there being awakened crab communities, that sounds dope.  Thanks for the other answers, I'll take that all into consideration. Level 10 is enough to go up to King Crab, and I think I may just take the leadership type thing - maybe I can work in some sort of splinter/outcast story into my background as a high ranking member of the Awakened Crab community?

Offline Jarob22

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 07:24:49 AM »
If I use the fiddler crab extra large pincer to attack in a round, can I also use it as a shield? My guess would be probably not, but just wanna check.

Bonus question: Taking violinist crab, do I need do make the enhanced claw have at least +1 in order to be able to have other effects on it? If not, would it still count as magical for bypassing DR/magic if I filled it with enhancements that weren't just +1?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:24:54 AM by Jarob22 »

Offline ketaro

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2019, 09:15:39 AM »
I can't drop Slow! I'm drunk! Drunks are not fast!

Also I picked my flaws before my traits so the Illiterate choice was actually unintentional cheese. I just think of it like even though I spent skill points to learn a language I still will never be able to read. Readings for losers.

I'll take the 50/50 on the test battles. Thank you kindly. It is surprisingly tough to tone down when using your content -_-'

Edit: I'll take Aggressive. I seem to be running a pretty decent or good initiative with this build so I could use the extra bit in trade-off for the AC loss.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 09:18:44 AM by ketaro »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Crown's Courtyard (OOC general discussion)
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2019, 10:17:30 AM »
Quote
You did mention low HPish, so what are your odds of tanking standard blasting like a maximized empowered flame strike powered by divine metamagic?

At least once, then maneuver RNG sets in. :lmao

I can foresee problems with that maneuver RNG recovering whatever I expend to get Soul Spear. That'll be something.

Does that deal piercing damage or force damage or what? Thunderlance-the-spell (specifically, the 3.5 version) isn't clear.

Basic statblock, class selections and maneuvers. Flaws and traits still to do, plus Personal Maid (which from a roleplaying perspective is rather necessary due to Diabolic Wave potentially making me need help to eat. :p)

Evaluating fights is a little tricky because I have double resource management going on and the forbidden price reduces my ability to utilise other vampire stuff/enhance maneuvers. Going nova is definitely an option but then considering possible other fights, painful.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 11:47:57 AM by Raineh Daze »