Starting up, what's good?

[Garryl]

My new tabletop group is meeting for the first time this Wednesday. We're trying out 5th edition, and we're all new to it. The first session is just going to be all of us learning the rules and trying it out with some premade characters. After that, we'll be continuing with the premades or making our own characters. I don't know how far we'll be going, what variants or optional rules we'll be using, etc.

So, I'm interested in knowing what's good, in a general sort of way. My first instinct after skimming the PHB was a half-elf bard, sorcerer, or warlock. Warlock seems particularly good in the first few levels, with its quick-recharging spellcasting being relatively front-loaded.

Also, an oddity popped up in my reading. A long rest recovers 1/2 your hit dice (which are now like 4th edition's healing surges that you spend to heal when resting... cool). But you're always rounding down. That means at 1st level, when you only have one HD, you don't recover any on a long rest. Did this get fixed with errata or anything?

[Wilb]

Good luck on your 1st 5E adventure, now to your points:

• What is good: Everything but the Beastmaster ranger, though Unearthed Arcana Beast conclave fixes this problem. Classes are mostly Tier 3. Variant Humans are the humans everyone uses. Most races have a combination or two that works well. Bards are greater than ever now.
  
• Warlock: Think of the warlock as a magical archer with a couple spells to spice it up.
  
• Long rest HD: I have no idea.
  

[Cannotthink]

The warlock is very fun, but it's power is ultimately tied to how often you can get a short rest in. If the typical adventuring day has no chance for rest, or even one rest, the warlock is going to suffer compared to other spellcasters.

The bard is ridiculously good with bardic inspiration being a pretty solid boon for allies, expertise in desirable skills, and access to pretty much any spell.

The sorcerer is a very solid spellcaster and metamagic is fantastic. I just really don't care for the sorcerous origins presented in the PHB. That's just me, though.

Pretty much all the classes are good and fun to use. That is, they do what you'd expect them to do with a reasonable level of competence. Even the fighter and monk are competent classes in their own right. The rogue has the capability to sneak attack anything. Paladins can smite anything.

If you want to know what's bad. That would be the ranger and the Way of the Four Elements monk.

As for the hit dice thing, no idea.

[TenaciousJ]

You always gain back a minimum of 1 HD on a long rest per errata.  A DM that puts you in a situation to need a long rest at level 1 without you leveling to 2 is a bit of sadist unless you're playing kobold-levels of cowardly characters.

[Kerrus]

IIRC the specific errata is that you round down (minimum 1), so you always recover *at least* one HD per long rest.

[Nifft]

So, I'm interested in knowing what's good, in a general sort of way. My first instinct after skimming the PHB was a half-elf bard, sorcerer, or warlock. Warlock seems particularly good in the first few levels, with its quick-recharging spellcasting being relatively front-loaded.

Bards are awesome in this edition. Both types are good in play.

Sorcerers are good, because metamagic is really good. I've had a better experience with Dragon than Wild.

Warlocks are good if you're following the short-rest-per-day guidelines strictly. Otherwise, they're still strong -- Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + the push one => a strong every-round action, but that gets dull for me.

I like the Wizard and Land Druid spell-recovery mechanism, because they remain good on long days with several short rests, but they're also more flexible about cantrips (no one clear winner) and more flexible about utility magic.

I *LOVE* 5e Paladins. They have a Smite which feels like the Smite I've always wanted. Their Oaths are diverse & flavorful, and suit a variety of different archetypes. They multiclass very well, and they remain awesome as single-class characters.

2 of the core Monks are great (Open Hand and Shadow).

It's really hard to go wrong in this edition -- most choices are good.

[Garryl]

Last week's session was a success. I went with a half-elf bard with the criminal (spy) background. Starts are 8 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, and 16 Cha. Vicious Mockery as a cantrip is surprisingly disappointing. Turns out poking a goblin with a rapier has a much better chance of negating its attack on account of death than dealing almost no damage and having a chance of giving it disadvantage. My 1st-level spells were sleep (no save, just lose), healing word, speak with animals, and heroism. And despite reading over the section three times, I somehow missed that bards get 3 skills of their choice, so I came in with just the skills from my race and background (oops). Fortunately, the rest of the table noticed something was fishy with my lack of skills (especially when I loudly and embarrassingly complained about bards not getting any skills) and managed to correct me at the end of the second session (yesterday).

The second session was just yesterday. We very awkwardly stumbled through a pair of goblin ambushes, got washed away by a flooding river trap, went in to battle with our sorcerer in the front line (twice), and otherwise somehow managed to succeed despite our total lack of tactics and coordination. So now we're at level 2. Any suggestions on what spell to pick up? I was thinking Thunderwave, since aside from Sleep it's the only multi-target offensive spell on the bard list (I think), and the only other AoE we have is the dragonborn paladin's breath weapon. Also, I apparently have a bunch of skill choices to pick. Any suggestions there? I don't think it matters that much at this level, though, since Jack of All Trades means skill proficiency is only +1 over nonproficiency.

[TenaciousJ]

Dissonant Whispers has party synergy because the particular wording of it is not technically forced movement, meaning it can result in opportunity attacks.  Thunderwave is a solid choice.

You don't use Vicious Mockery on goblins.  You use Vicious Mockery on smaller encounters with just 1 or 2 tough enemies.  The more incoming attacks your party is dealing with, the worse Vicious Mockery is.  It shines more at level 5 and beyond when your own damage contribution starts to fall off compared to the rest of your party members.

Perception is always a solid skill choice since it opposes enemy stealth and can save you from ambushes.  1 of acrobatics or athletics is good to have so you aren't completely dependent on magic to escape grapples.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yeah but telling a Goblin it's a poor excuse for a Halfling just feels  good, you know?
2nding the spell picks, Friends cantrip is a useful sub for Intimidate and Deception.
Damaging cantrips are generally not as good as weapon attacks, early on.

[Nifft]

Yeah but telling a Goblin it's a poor excuse for a Halfling just feels  good, you know?

Yeah, uh...

It's not the most damaging cantrip in the game.

But I would argue that vicious mockery might be the absolute best & most fun cantrip in the game.


That said, a bard should probably also buy a light crossbow. If you're Lore, you can keep that light crossbow forever. If you're Valor, you probably want to grab a shortbow at level 5.