Author Topic: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb  (Read 70877 times)

Offline nijineko

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The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« on: November 18, 2011, 02:27:59 AM »
Quote
Disclaimer by Samb:  I am a min/maxer, I assume you people reading and providing feedback are as well.  I have only played gish and tank ardents since that is what I feel they do best. I will provide theoretical build ideas for other roles but keep in mind I have not played one before.  If you see a trick that proves an ardent can play a role in a way other classes can't then let me know.  It doesn't have to be better just unique to ardents.  When I make comparisons with other classes I assume it is optimized with a equal skill.


Ardent Handbook


The basics:  The ardent is a base class found in Complete Psionics.  It has ¾ BAB, good will save, 1 power/level with bonus power at level one, quirky method of selecting powers (more on that later), great ACFs, many would compare call it a psionic cleric.  Mantles are basically like disciplines of psions but an ardent can only pick powers from his mantles as opposed to psion/wilders who have a shared power list that all can take.  Like clerics they also gain special bonuses/feats depending on what mantles they have selected.

Party role: almost any, but they mostly excel at tank and gish.  While they could be a sub-par healer with empathic transfer and PSV (psicrystal, share pain, vigor) combo they would not really compare to a cleric.  As a blaster they can be respectable but a psion or wilder would have more tricks (psion) or just plain better (wilder) much less a wizard.  As battlefield control a psion or wizard still has them beat with sheer variety.  More on this later.

In a nutshell:

Strengths:
  • Quote from: ***(The quoted text is no longer true, see Powers Known section, below)***
    quirky method of selecting powers allows it to always have max level of powers, allowing it to multi-class a bit more freely.
  • awesome ACF in the Mind's Eye website that border on cheating
  • highly customizable.  As stated above.  This is the reason I love ardents, I can only make the same 2-4 wilder builds, but I can make 7-8 ardents builds that feel completely different.
  • great armor selection
  • great tank out of the box
  • some good-great unique powers

Weakness:
  • terrible skill selections and ranks.  This really hurts as a gish since 5 ranks in jump needed for leap attack.
  • Simple weapon proficiency.  Lack of good two handed weapons prevents full use of power attack.
  • Low number of powers.  Not as bad as wilders, but with 4 dips into other classes or PrCs it could get close (17 by 20 as opposed to 15 for a wilder).
  • lacking in certain key powers. Not having bonus feats to get EKs hurts here.
  • Feat starved: Not really a unique problem for ardents since only a handful of classes offer bonus feats.  Still, you could always use more.  Some mantles give feats or feat-like abilities but none of them are really feats that an optimizer use (improved sunder? weapon focus? ectopic form? alignment strikes?)

Let's take a look at the base chassis:

Skills: 2+INT, the class skills of the ardent are a bit of a disappointment.  Most flagrant is the lack of jump, which means no Leap attack for gish builds till much later.  You will likely be spending all 2-3 of your skills ranks on concentration or psicraft anyways.  Autohypnosis is an interesting skill but with the emphasis on the concentration and psicraft, it is unlikely that you will have a bunch of ranks in it.

Attributes: Your most important attribute is wisdom.  It determines what powers you can learn, how much bonus PP you get, the and DC on your powers.  Max this if you can.  If you are going for a gish build, then expect to be MAD with focus on CON, STR, DEX (in that order).  CON is important because you need it for hp and concentration checks, especially at early levels.  CHR is not a dump stat if you plan on using metamorphic transfer that involves saves.  CHR of 11 is needed for the hidden talent feat so it never really becomes a complete dump stat.
Weapon proficiency: simple only.  Not having martial weapons does affect gish ardent’s damage output for the worse.  The weapon focus that you can get at level one with the conflict MIGHT bypass this.  I say might because technically you don’t qualify for weapon focus with 0 BAB, so could we take “a weapon of your choice” literally?  Even if you select “greatsword” does that mean you are proficient in it?  The “legal” way is to just take a dip in psywar.  Hey, nothing wrong with a morning star either, till you can get into a PrC that does have martial weapon, right?

Armor proficiency: All but tower shields.  Takes advantage of psionic’s lack of arcane spell failure.  When considered with lack of offensive weapons, this makes ardents natural (and potent) meat shields.

Powers known
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Power selection: from mantles you have selected.  As you will see your role in a party will vary greatly depending on your mantle selection.  This method of picking powers is both liberating and frustrating.  It is liberating in the sense that you can pick up to 4-6 different mantles as opposed to only one discipline of a psion. 
On the other hand, it is frustrating in that a lot of mantles don’t have useful powers at all levels.  Take the mantles natural world and physical power.  Both have that one power I am dying to get; metamorphosis and vigor.  But that is ALL I want to get from them, the mantle ability and the powers are all lack luster.  I only get 6 mantles (if that) in my ardent career, should I waste 2 of them on just one 2 powers?  Should I just spend a feat to get them when I am hurting for feats already?  Such is the dilemma of any ardent CharOP.  Then there are the powers that are missing altogether: share pain, schism (!), psychic reformation, greater metamorphosis, and synchronicity.  Guess what? You’ll to spend a feat to get all those too……feats are looking like they are disappearing fast.  But have no fear for there is just the ACF to fix this:  SUBSTITUTE POWERS!!!!!

      

 

Alternative class features AKA: legally cheating
The ACFs of the ardent are awesome.  I know I said this before but they really are that good.  Both make up for a lot of the ardent's inherent weaknesses.  In fact, I never make a ardent without them.  The dominant ideal fits the flavor of the ardent, makes it a powerhouse (in its dominant mantle that is), and really sets it apart from other classes.  You'd be a fool not to take these.
Original description found here:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a


Substitute powers: AKA pimp my mantle.  A great ACF for ardents in that it saves you a lot of feats to do other things with.  You can make your own mantle provided it thematically fits and come to a total of 10.  You can take out powers and replace it with what your DM sees fit.
  • energy missile in energy mantle
  • schism, psyreform and psychic chirurgery in mental might
  • greater metamorphosis in natural world
  • share pain in pain and suffering or physical power
  • synchronicity in time mantle
  • stygian bolt (I like this power for some strange reason) in death mantle
  • strength of my enemy in consumption mantle
  • claws of the beast in natural world.
These are just suggestions, you may come to a different conclusion as to what “theme” means.
If your DM is a complete pushover you can just put all the powers you want into 2 mantles (mantles of alpha and omega!!!) and just cheat your way through the game.  With a clueless enough DM it could render mantle selection completely pointless (other than the mantle abilities), and hence better off playing a psion, so please use with caution.

Note that nothing in Mind's Eye says you can create mantles.  You can only add or swap out powers to a max of 10, and you need DM consent.


Dominant ideal:  Pick a mantle, never expend psionic focus when applying metapsionics on powers of that mantle AND it reduces costs of metapsionics by 2 (to free)!!!!   It takes the place of the mantle you are supposed to get at level 10 and well worth it if not for just for linked power.  Linked power to Hustle can result in multiple uses psionic focus in the same round.  Better yet use hustle linked to another hustle without using your focus! 

The reduction in metapsionics costs is (hopefully) to the total amount and not each application.  This still amounts to a free empower (or extend, split ray, or even paraelemental).

IMO this really gives the ardent something unique and really sets them apart from the psion and psywar.  Honestly, if you wanted another mantle there is always tap mantle or EK, but no feat comes close to doing what this ACF does.  At higher levels and with metapower, you could even apply 2 or more metapsionic feats on one power like real casters do.  Psionic focus was implemented as a means to limit psionic users, this ACF removes that limit.....All your builds should have 10 levels of ardent just for this ACF IMHO.

Now if you combine these two ACFs together, you get a bunch of great powers that you can use metapsionics on without blowing you focus!

Optimization vs. DM BS tolerance:
Substitute powers removes the limit to what a mantle can hold, while dominant ideal removes the limit of psionic focus on metapsionics.  Your DM's BS tolerance will play a role here.  There are many grades of how much a DM will put up with from his players.

  • the pushover: anything is allowed; this guy is like Michael in office space, he'll do anything to be your friend.
  • the authoritarian: as long as it is within reasonable limits of the rules, and he knows in advance and he has final say.
  • the nazi: this one will most likely say no to ACFs since he doesn't know them and/or doesn't want to learn them.

I will assume you all have #2 the authoritarian and will write as such.  Most reasonable DMs will have a easier time adding powers on mantles than swapping them, but if you give a compelling case they might change their mind.



Mantles:  Your life as an ardent and your builds all depend on these.  They are what makes you and gives you your powers.  I rank them based on mantle ability, powers (especially unique powers), list what powers could be safely added, tricks and combos and what type of build this favors.  Since the mantles are so closely tied to their powers I will briefly discuss any worthwhile ones.

rating is standard with (best) navy---blue---black---red (worst)



CHAOS
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COMMUNICATION
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CONFLICT
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CONSUMPTION
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CORRUPTION AND MADNESS
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CREATION
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DEATH
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DECEPTION
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DESTRUCTION
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ELEMENTS
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ENERGY
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EVIL
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FATE
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FORCE
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FREEDOM
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GOOD
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GUARDIAN
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JUSTICE
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KNOWLEDGE
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LAW
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LIFE
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LIGHT & DARKNESS
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MAGIC
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MENTAL MIGHT
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NATURAL WORLD
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PAIN & SUFFERING
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PHYSICAL POWER
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THE PLANES
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REPOSE
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TIME
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Attributes
In order of importance: WIS, CON, STR, DEX, CHR, INT.  The stats an ardent needs are similar to a cleric with the exception that CHR is not that important unless you are going to be using metamorphic transfer that requires DCs.  DEX could be more important if you are going for a blasty type of ardent using lots of touch attacks, or using zen archery for ranged attacks.  CON is always important but even more so for concentration.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 11:21:14 PM by nijineko »

Offline nijineko

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 02:28:27 AM »
Races
In general, any race that penalizes WIS should be avoided like the plague.  I would refer everyone to AfterCrescent's cleric handbook, with the thought that CHR is not a serious consideration.  I will cover humans and psionic races and whatever the you guys provide here.  Thanks to ardent's funky way of selecting powers LA is not as big of an issue.  No race has favored class as ardent although humans and Synad can select their first class as a favored class.

Humans:
Extra skill and extra feat.  For a feat and skill starved class this is races fixes both problems and is great for all builds, whether it be gish, tank, blaster, healer, whatever.  As you will see there will be a lot of feats that you really want, especially metapsionic feats, that you will not be able to pick in your 20 level career.  Just being human will save you one dip into a class.  Considering that practiced manifester only covers 4 levels this is a big deal.  The race all others are judged against.

Kalashtar:
The amount of extra PP you gain from this class means you always have an extra manifesting at full power everyday.  Big deal.  Mindlink PLA is handy for various situations, but the big one is that it is a preq for thrallherd.  But what makes this great race rather than an okay race is the fact that you can use Quori embedded shards.  They take up no slots so you could have a bunch of them on you.  Two that really stand out are Power-linked shard and Power Repository shards.  
Power linked shard adds 2 PP that can EXCEED your ML limit!!!  If you have multiple shards embedded you can increase this bonus PP to very high levels indeed, and makes dominant ideal ACF even easier to apply.  
Power repository has a power up to level 4 that that you can swap for another power of the same level.  Metamorphosis and schism are level 4 powers.  If you can't convince your DM to put a certain power in a mantle, this is a perfectly viable means of getting that one power you want.  

Just a note on the items; they are supposed to be very rare since they are Siberys dragonshards they can only be found outside of Khorvaire, most likely in Xen'dirk or Argonnessen.  So the idea of having 12 power link shards embedded in your PC is possible, it is improbable considering you will be facing feral giants or dragons in hopes of even getting one.  Still even having 1 or 2 is pretty powerful.

Inspired:
Much like the Kalashtar, with lots of bonus skill ranks, bonus feat, ability to use embedded shards and a slew of PLAs.  More like a kalashtar on steroids, so why is it only an average?  +3 LA is just too much of a price to pay.

Chosen:
Bonus feats, bonus lots PP, bonus skills, for the price of only 1 LA.  But no Quori spirit means no embedded shards, no mindlink.  A kalashtar is better.

Elan:
A tanking race for a tanking class, like peanut butter and jelly this is a natural fit for bodyguard types.  -2 on CHR could hurt if you are using metamorphosis that require a DC and your (non-existent) social skills.  But for pure survivability, few things can touch an Elan with a big PP reserve.  Feats that enhance Elan Resistance and Resilience (found in CPsi) keep these racial features relevant well into higher levels.

Domite:
-2 on STR and WIS is just no good.  And the fact that they have a LA of +1, and land speed of only 20 makes this a terrible choice for Ardents.  On the plus side, small size and chitin do make this race very hard to kill, free blind fighting is always good to have just in case.

Duergar:
Bonus to CON is good, -4 the CHR is workable, but the real gem of this class is its PLAs.  Expansion and Invisibility are not on any mantle, while you could get expansion from a dip into psywar, it would only last 1-5 rounds with wild surge or overchannel.  As a PLA it automatically scales with your CL. All in all a decent choice.

Half-giant:
Bonus to STR and CON and penalty on DEX, perfect for a gish of any type other than a ranged build.  Powerful build is what makes this race stand out.

Maenad:
Nothing special here.  Sonic ray isn't too impressive and lose of a feat for 2 PP seems like a bad trade off.  Could still be viable but on the whole this is strictly wilder material.

Synad:
Extra turns before schism is good, extra turns that can be used with schism, temporal acceleration, synchronicity and/or fission is even better.  Sure it is only 1/day (or 3/day with the feat) but it but I personally feel it is worth it, even at lower levels.  The Synad multitask feat is almost mandatory.  Great choice for any build (or any class for that matter).

Thri-kreen:
If only it's racial HD or LA was lower, this would be a great a race for ardents.  Alas, even practiced manifester cannot cover all the class levels lost on this race.

Xeph:
Run of the mill, with -2 to STR.  Only redeeming quality that saves it from being red is that you can select xeph celerity and extra burst for lots of attacks at full BAB.

Githyanki:
Lots of neat PLAs but -2 WIS and LA of 2 are big no-no's in my book especially if you compare it to humans or kalashtars.

Githzerai:
Bonus to WIS and huge bonus to DEX, -2 on a dump stat and 4 cool PLAs make this a decent race for any build but even better for the Zen archer.

Surreal on Dragonborn and Neanderthals:
Quote from: Surreal on September 27, 2009, 06:47:15 AM
I like Dragonborn as a race for ardents. The choice of a breath weapon or flight can be pretty nice and may save you from spending one of your precious powers known. While we're at it, as long as you're a dragonborn I like the dragonscale husk ACF as well, saving you again on powers known and/or wealth spent on armour. Assuming that we're taking Ardent 10 for dominant ideal, that puts us at AC+9 and resist 10 acid/cold/elec/fire which is pretty darned good for a passive ability.
Quote from: Surreal on October 03, 2009, 03:45:28 AM
I've always like the Neanderthal (Frostburn), +2 Str/Con, -2 Dex/Int. Toss on Dragonborn for even more beefiness. They're nearly perfect stats for a paladin, and surprisingly good for a Wis or Cha based gish type.

edit: Dragonborn Neanderthal Ardent 10/Slayer 10
- dominant ideal, dragonscale husk (+12 AC, resist 20 acid/cold/elec/fire), +2 Str/-4 Dex/+4 Con/-2 Int, a hefty breath weapon, etc. makes for a fairly solid tank.

Illumians:
This race is good for the "twin advancing PrC".  By this I mean cerebromancer and psychic theurge.  The Krau sigil makes a level 1 spell heightened to level 3 which lets you get into both PrC with only one level dip in divine or arcane class.  You end up with a ML of 20 (since you took PM) and CL of 11.  Aeshkrau let you sub your STR modifier for your primary manifesting modifier (for ardents its WIS) making them less MAD as gishes.  Not sure if this applies to bonus PP.



Multiclassing

You have two ways to go about this:  front load non-ardent levels or spread them out or do a mix of both, but you should never lose ardent levels after level 17.  While PM and ardent's way of selecting powers gives you a bit more freedom you still do lose power points and total powers known.  They just aren't losing the higher level powers.  If you lose 4 levels then you would only have 17 powers in 20 levels, which is only 2 more than an educated wilder which sucks.  You also lose 122 PP (that's not counting the bonus PP) which is about 6 full manifesting powers/day.  So do not get all cocky and think you don't lose anything from multiclassing, ardent (and PM) affords you a lot of freedom but it is not as lenient as you think, if you can keep ardent ML try to do so.  Just because PM says it boosts up to 4 MLs doesn't mean you have to use all of them.  

The main thing you are looking for in dipping into other classes is bonus feats and skills, two things that ardents sorely lack.  Here's a sample of frontloading your ardent.

1)wilder
2)erudite
3)ardent (pick PM:ardent)
So by front loading wilder you get 8 more skill ranks at level one, 1 level 1 power.  Erudite will allow you to pick yet another level 1 power.  At level 3 you could pick a level 2 power as if you didn't lose any MLs in ardent.  Some planning as to when you should dip/PrC is needed so you don't lose an important power.  Frontloading will suffer from lack of PP early on so pay attention to PP economy (or do a recharge cheat).  Another obvious draw back to front loading your non ardent levels is you don't get dominant ideal till that much later.

Erudite: free psicrytal and another feat.  Not many classes give 2 feat in one level not to mention one unique power that you can pick anew each day.  Granted not many level 1 powers can be useful at high levels but it is a nice bonus.  Need a INT of 11 and you do lose 1/4 BAB from this.

Wilder: Also a 3/4 BAB class so no lose in BAB.  Wild surge save you the trouble of picking overchannel and is just plain better than overchannel.  I will just refer you to my wilder handbook for the math but take my word for it.   One dip in this class qualifies you for the anarchic initiate, which allows for chaotic surge.  When combined with metapsionics like empower and maximize this is downright scary.  More on anarchic initiate later.  Will need a CHR of 11.

Psychic warrior: Also WIS based and has 2 levels of bonus feats to grab, 3/4 BAB progression means you don't lose any BAB either.  Ideal for dipping into when an you hit 11 (for the metapsionic feats).  This also gives you martial weapon proficiency which can greatly enhance your damage and is needed for sanctified mind PrC.

Psion: bonus psionic feat is always nice but like erudite you lose 1/4 BAB and need INT of 11.

Ranger: Gives a free track feat which you need for slayer.  Gain 1/4 BAB and decent Reflex bonus, extra 16 skill ranks at level 1.  If you want a zen archer build then taking 2 levels in this for the free point blank shot as well.  This class is a bit to specific for me to rank it higher.

Fighter: two levels of bonus feats and an extra 1/4 BAB for each dip. Not the best choice but sometime you just really need the proficiency, feats, or even BAB in addition to what you get from psywar.

ToB classes: Out of these 3 I'd say swordsage would be the best choice simply due to being WIS based, no less in BAB, and lots of maneuvers, however IIRC you lose you init and AC bonus wearing heavy armor. The crusader and warblade do gain you BAB and have some mechanics that favor tanking. Either way 1-2 level dips in one of these classes vastly improves your combat options. If MLs worked like ILs then this handbook would a lot easier to write. These classes also open the possibility of using feats like psionic renewal to expend focus to regain a maneuver.  

Monk: The feat Tashalatora and Monastic Training lets your monk and psionic levels stack.  For two feats you can advance two classes.  Pretty good, although I always felt monks should have been psionic in the first place.



Prestige Classes

WotC sources and 3.5 only, as there is no direct conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 due to psionic combat and 0 level powers.  I'll only cover the ones that advance ML, since I feel that an ardent in any role is better with more ML.  Of course, I am open to other interpretations.  

Psychic theurge and Cerebromancer:  Using the Illumian early entry cheat you can enter both PrC by 4th level.  The benefit of entering early is dubious since you lose out on dominant mantle until much later.  Still, you will end up with 9th level powers and 6th level spells by level 20, and more spells and PP than you know what to do with.

Elocater:  A hefty feat buy in cost, but for a gish ardent build this might be the best option even with only 3/4 BAB.  This is thanks to opportunistic strike which gives you a big bonus to attack and damage rolls (up to +6 by lvl 8).  Capricious step, scorn earth, and flanker also add mobility offensive options most of which are geared towards making you a decent glass cannon.

Illithid Slayer: One of the few PrCs that has full BAB progression, and a favorite for the more martially oriented players.  The best class feature is breach power resistance which lets your melee attacks lower power resistance.  Many people seem to like cerebral blind, but its utility for PCs is limited since a DM will always know everything, which translates into one surprise round (assuming you made a good hide check).  This is more of a NPC feature.  If you need BAB faster to qualify for a feat or see yourself fighting a lot of illithid, then this is an okay way to since it does have 9/10 ML progression.  Not for all gish builds, and even if you are going with anti-psionic in mind, a Sanctified mind is much better since it's class features apply to all psionic creatures and not just illithids.

Sanctified Mind:  Another PrC with full BAB and 5/6 ML progression, but for some reason not a popular choice.  A shame really, because it is better than Illithid Slayer in every way.  This PrC is geared against psionic users and front line work (just like Illithid Slayer).  Illithid Slayers may have features that work while they are stunned and dazed, but a SM can continue to function even when dazed or stunned thanks to partitioned mind.  It's disrupting blow forces a Fort save and cuts off all psionic power and PLAs for 1d4 rounds and with a DC that is based on his WIS modifier and his SM level.  Hard to hold gives an all around boost to grapple defense and not just from illithids.  Always take this over Illithid Slayer.

Diamond Dragon: Another little known gem from Dragon Magic.  This is one of the easiest gishy PrCs to qualify for, and provides 8/10 ML progression, bonus to physical attributes, immunity to sleep and paralysis, flight, a breath weapon, claws that you can use while you manifest powers, and fear aura.  Easy qualifications, good ML progression (especially combined with ardent and practiced manifester), and many utility features makes this a top choice.

Metamind:  This maybe a sub-par choice for other classes but for an ardent with dominant mantle and practiced manifester this PrC is downright broken even without front of power.  As was mentioned, lowering costs is important since it will allow for more metapsionic feats.  Free manifesting allows you devote all of your "cap space" (max PP=ML) towards metapsi and augmentation.  Ever want to shot an energy ball that with max damage, double range, empowered, twined and linked?  With metamind you can do that.  The lose of 5 ML is there to balance things, but with ardent's wacky power selection, it's clear that metamind was not meant to be played in this manner.  I won't even get into why Font of Power is broken...

Psion Uncarnate:  It's amazing how PrC suddenly seem great when you don't lose any ML.  This is another one of them.  Being incorporeal has many benefits, but being incorporeal with equipment, and be able to dimensional step through people's heads?  Oh and you deal 10d6 of damage if they fail a Fort save when you pop out of them too.  Did they make their save? Not like anything can hit you anyway, wilt them down with your mental might or touch attack.

Thrallherd:  Oh the abuses you can do with thralls.  But the one thing that chimes in well with ardents is the reduced cost of charm and dominate.  The more levels in Thrallherd the ardent gets the cheaper it is meaning more metapsionics you can apply.  Granted their isn't too much you can do with charm or dominate, other than achieve complete battle field dominance (pun intended) by stacking chain power on said powers.  Congrats on making all encounters henceforth undead, slimes and golems.  Bet your teammates will love you.

Anarchic Initiate:  Not many people agree with me when I say wild surge is better than overchannel.  It isn't much of a debate since the math says so and as the signature feature of wilders, it was intended to be better.  This PrC gives you this feature while advancing your ML in ardent.  It's the best of both worlds really and increasing ML is better than decreasing costs.  Chaotic surge is a free empower 50% of the time and makes this decent even as a dip.  If there was a casino where you won 50% of the time, broke even 25% of the time and lost 25% of the time (but lose less than you win) would you gamble there?  I certainty would and so should you.  I don't see the need to stay for all 10 levels, level 7for the wild surge is suffice or level 8 if you really want that postpone enervation.  The only PrC where you don't need practiced manifester to make up any lost ML (but might need it for the wilder dip).

Ectopic Adept:  First I want to say that ectopic form feats are very good.  They give you more special abilities than their normal counterparts (two menu selections compared to only one).  With boost construct feat (more on this later) you can match the versatility of the normal ACs.  This PrC has a bad rep especially when compared to the vastly superior Constructor.  It isn't a bad PrC per say, ectopic forms are decent and no rule says you have to pick one when you manifest AC, allowing you to keep your versatility.  No, the main reason why this is bad for ardents is the fact that you need to keep your craft skills higher than your ML.  Ardents have terrible amount of skill and the Ectopic Adept continues that trend.  For any psionic class, keeping Concentration and psicraft maxed is a must.  That leaves little in the way to spend on craft.  This requirement is on ALL the class features too, meaning you can't dump INT anymore.

War Mind:  As a five level dip, this WIS based PrC can keep up with PP progression and still give you the amazing sweeping strike and level 9 powers by lvl 18.  This is more for gishes.  Going over level 5 is not recommended.  If you took mental might, you can gain the +2 WIS bonus on PPs for both classes.

Cognition Thief:  I had mentioned this little known PrC in my Wilder handbook but here it is again.  This PrC is special in that it follows the same rules for power selection as ardents: if you can manifest it, you can pick it.  In ten levels, you get 8 telepath only powers, which includes psychic chiurgury.  This is the only way to get that power pre-epic and it is a very nice power..... and in some cases quite broken.

Flayerspawn psychic: Not a popular choice and I have many disagree with me on my opinion on this, but mechanically this is a decent PrC, especially for an ardent.  You gain 4 illithid feats in 10 levels and thanks to practiced manifester you lose no ML at all.  Mind Blast is a very nice PLA, even if we have no idea what the extra PP do.  I would assume you augment the effects and DC like a psionic blast power, but what scale?  What is keeping this from being a great PrC is that it just doesn't give enough illithid feats to gain extraction.  As mentioned earlier, the Illithid feat change is very decent in that it gives you bonus powers and increases the DC to them.  If you were selecting these feats to begin with since you don't have charm, or dominate, or dispel (all very good powers) in your mantles, then this PrC is a logical continuation as it gives you the feats you want anyway.

Storm Disciple:  I maybe a bit harsh here, as this is one PrC that seems to be tailored towards Ardents, but this PrC is pretty bad.  It's capstone is that it gives you a thundering weapon.  Shocking aura is.... nice but the range is too small to fully capitalize on it and places you in danger of AoE spells/powers/artillery.  Even more bizarre is that shocking aura doesn't stack with psychic aura making this PrC suck for divine minds as well.  Stay away from this.

Constructor:  By picking this PrC you will give up quite a bit of BAB and getting an even smaller HD (d4), but you also gain much more.  First thing to note is that this PrC requires boost construct as a feat and astral construct as a power.  The AC and other powers are easy to get with creation feat, boost construct is a bit more complicated.  What does boost construct do for a AC manifested with ectopic form?  Some have said "nothing", but based on RAW (and I suspect RAI) this is not the case. 
Here is the exact wording the boost construct:
"When you create an astral construct, you can give it one additional special ability from any menu that the construct currently has an ability from."
Some have argued that since the ability is innate to the ectopic form, they did not select it from any menu hence they gain nothing.  The wording is tricky but it never says: "ability picked from the menu", but rather "menu that the construct currently (as in time it was created) has an ability from".   Hence, if it has an ability on a menu, you can pick an additional one.  So if I picked Alabaster Aerial, who has both fly and deflection, and both on menu A, I should be able to pick another power from menu A.  More on this feat in the feats section.  Anyway, your AC are better, tougher last longer, and you can manifest them faster.  They even have out of combat functions thanks to utility construct. 



Feats

The key thing to remember when optimizing an Ardent's feats is make the most of your metapsionics.  All the other stuff can be done by other classes (and often better) with the same feats.  This means getting the best metapsionic feats, increasing ML, and decreasing cost.  All the other "gishy" type feats take a back burner, because the true meaning of optimizing means to make the most of what is unique to that class while minimizing/overcoming its weaknesses.  Not losing focus on metapsionics is very unique (and powerful) and one should focus on that aspect.

General Psionic feats: These are feats any psionic user would want or consider and not all that Ardent specific.

Psicrystal affinity:
(click to show/hide)

Expanded Knowledge/Hidden talent: This loses some of its appeal due to sub powers ACF, but it does still provide you with more powers which is a key weakness in Ardents.  Hidden talent can be taken at level 1 and a fine way to get more PP and Astral construct without ectopic form on it.

Psionic Body:  Always good but since Ardents don't get that many feats to begin with, this will not be as good of a choice when compared to psywar or psion.

Psionic Meditation: Not as vital since you can apply metapsionics without lose of focus.  Still useful for feats like deep impact, which is a natural partner of power attack.  If you dipped into a ToB class and selected psychic renewal, you can spam that one maneuver over and over (even without hustle).

Speed of thought:  Freedom mantle already provides this benefit so in some cases it is redundant.  But if mobility is this feat is the way to go.

Metamorphic transfer: The greatness of this feat has been discussed already.

Inquisitor: Very useless feat, and if it wasn't a prereq for cognition thief and thrallherd I would not have mentioned them at all.

Power penetration:  With dominant mantle you no longer have to pick between accuracy and power.  Still the fact you need to expend your focus does make it lose a lot of its appeal.

Psychic renewal:  This lets you expand your focus to regain a maneuver.  Since you will not be spending a lot of levels in ToB classes this will greatly increase your durability in combat.  Hustle and psionic med are a must.

Instant clarity:  This feat allows you the regain focus right after you use a maneuver.  Sounds like a natural fit for psychic renewal except it is limited to 3/day.  If this was 3/encounter it would easily be one of the best feats around but alas it is not, and 3/day just doesn't cut it.

Ectopic Form:  Ectopic Forms are not popular among players compared to normal ACs.  The reason is that players no longer get to customize their beasts which loses a lot of versatility.  But carefully looking at each ectopic form shows that you usually get twice the abilities a normal AC would get for the same level.  By taking this several times to cover for different situations you gain versatility in what you can manifest, in fact some do things no normal AC can.  These extra abilities are a big deal, especially at early levels.  Taking boost construct will also do you well for even more abilities.  The biggest drawback to this feat is the fact that all the menu C abilities will be closed off to you.  Look at all the ectopic forms, and you will see that while most have more abilities, none have any menu C choices.

Boost construct:  Go for it if you are using ACs.  Many would argue that if using ectopic form feat you can't benefit from this, but I disagree.  The wording says as long as it is a construct and has an ability that is on a menu, you can select 1 more ability from said menu.  This is fine and dandy at early to mid levels and will give you a big boost in terms of versatility, but when you are level 15 and can't select menu C abilities is the time you may want to go back to normal ACs.  As a preq for constructor PrC you can't really go wrong with this feat.



Feats that raise ML or cut costs:

Practised Manifester: An ardent's most important gish feat.  Might not be worth it if you are only losing 1 ML but anything over that you must get this.  This feat should be  taken on  the "raising ML" principle even if you aren't going gish (like dipping into other classes to get bonus feats).


Overchannel: Again raising ML= more metapsionics, more damage, more range, more DC, more everything.  It is suboptimal since wilder dip or entering anarchic initiate for wild surge is better but if you don't mind taking damage and very slow progression (+3ML at level 15!!!???) then this might be okay.  I'd personally avoid this one since taking 3 levels in wilder still leaves you with one ML "to spare" for something like slayer.

Earth Power:  You'll need earth sense to get this but it is worth it.  This feat requires that you maintain focus to get its benefits so normally it is not possible to benefit from it when applying metapsionics.  But since you no longer lose focus applying metapsionics on powers in your dominant mantle you can go to town!

Metapower: This permanently connects a metapsionic feat to a power so that every time you manifest that power, it will be meta'd and at 2 less PP to a minimal of 0.  You may find yourself picking this 2-3 times since Linked power can't change targets (unless the second target is invalid, and last I checked you can ego whip yourself), unless you use synchronicity to cheat.

Illithid complusion:  +1ML and +1 DC to all your compulsion powers.  A bit niche but still very handy since dominate and charm fall under this, so it depends on your mantles.  Illithid legacy will get you both (along with read thoughts and dispel) if you need the extra powers.

Elemental cognizance:  Pick your favorite element and it now gets +1ML when you manifest it.  Great for blasters.  Not great for anyone else since you need 2 other feats for this.

Stygian archon:  Your debuffing powers get +1ML.  I know I like me some sytgian bolt.  Still very niche but if you are going for a debuff build then get this, since negative levels are pretty crippling.

Metapsionics:  Dominant ideal lends itself well to metapsionics as expected.  The best thing is that you don't need psicrystal containment to stack metapsi feats on a power, and with so many ways to decrease cost you could maximize, empower and expand an energy missile all in one manifestation.  With so many metapsionic feats out there which are winners, which are sleepers and which are duds?

Linked Power:  Doesn't get better than this right?  Combined with synchronicity you can change the target of the second power.  This saves you lots of time, and cut the cost of many powers, or even make it free with metapower (bestow power recharge cheat).  A gish with psionic medication could also keep linking hustle to another hustle to keep focused and use deep impact over and over again.  The tricks get even worse when you get schism.

Enlage Power: A dominant ideal ardent needs to get this once they hit 10.  Why? It is free.  It only costs your psionic focus and if you manifest in the mantle it is free.  You can't keep applying it and make everything infinite in range (I don't think) but double range is great and it's free.

Maximize power:  Lot about optimizing is taking out the randomness of dice.  This power does just that by making things predictable.  If you did nothing to lower the cost of your powers, the break even point for this power would 8 die.  That means choosing between max'ing 4 die (8 minus the cost of the power) and rolling 8 die is the same.  By the time you get dominant ideal you will be well beyond 8 ML.  If you cut the cost of this feat it will also the break even ML the same amount, so by level 10 ardent you would be making a "profit" of 4dX.

Burrowing power:  This feat only raises the cost by 2 but allows said power to bypass walls and cover.  This allows for considerable tactical uses for your powers especially if you combine it with BFC powers like wall of ectoplasm and energy wall.  With Dominant Ideal it is free, however you still need a way to see your target. Powers like clairvoyant sense are mandatory.  In addition, you could have your psicrystal deliver all your touch powers as well.  Another interesting tactic is to use the cheaper sense link on your BSF while you hide behind cover.  Then again, forced sense link on an opponent could be even more devastating as everyone comrade he looks at dies.  This is not a navy feat only because it is more useful for "casting" ardents rather than gish.

Empower Power: Add 50% to any numeric value for the cost of only 2 PP.  Should be combined with chaotic surge to get even more out of your manifestations as well as offset -50% that sometimes happens with chaotic surge.



Misc

Illithid feat chain:
Refers to heritage--> compulsion--> legacy--> greater legacy  This could include illithid blast as well if you want to enter the cognition thief PrC.  Why are these feats good?  Because in four feats you get 4 awesome telepath only powers (charm, read thoughts, dominate and dispel) but also +1 to all DC with compulsion descriptors, and +2 on saves against spells/powers and spell/psi like abilities.  A natural chain if you take the the flayerspawn psychic PrC.
More to come...........
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 11:01:58 AM by nijineko »

Offline nijineko

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 02:28:57 AM »
Reserved for builds.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 02:29:21 AM »
Reserved for extras.

(transfer handbook now, fix format later)

End of handbook.

Offline littha

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 11:23:07 AM »
awesome as ever but:
Quote
Per the designer, the following conclusions (in quote box) are incorrect, and the Ardent class chooses powers known based on class level not manifester level. This information was acquired via direct exchange with the designer, and as such, may not count as official errata in your game.

[Citation Needed]

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 11:56:17 AM »
awesome as ever but:
Quote
Per the designer, the following conclusions (in quote box) are incorrect, and the Ardent class chooses powers known based on class level not manifester level. This information was acquired via direct exchange with the designer, and as such, may not count as official errata in your game.

[Citation Needed]
Yeah... some guy on the internet said that some other guy on the internet (who claims to be the designer/author) said... isn't a very good Errata source.

Besides... without that, the class is actually kind of crappy. I should state that I dislike how multiclassing works for spellcasters/manifesters in D&D 3.X in general, though. I wish the ToB system applied to everything, and indeed in at least one game I DM I have house ruled as much.
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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »
awesome as ever but:
Quote
Per the designer, the following conclusions (in quote box) are incorrect, and the Ardent class chooses powers known based on class level not manifester level. This information was acquired via direct exchange with the designer, and as such, may not count as official errata in your game.

[Citation Needed]
Yeah... some guy on the internet said that some other guy on the internet (who claims to be the designer/author) said... isn't a very good Errata source.

Besides... without that, the class is actually kind of crappy. I should state that I dislike how multiclassing works for spellcasters/manifesters in D&D 3.X in general, though. I wish the ToB system applied to everything, and indeed in at least one game I DM I have house ruled as much.
This. Just because the author says that was the intent (giving the benefit of doubt and assuming it was the author) doesn't mean it's a good idea. With the "wrong" reading, you have an interesting class with a mechanic that encourages multiclassing and diversification to a degree. Without it, you have just more of the same, on a class chassis that's not even very good.
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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 06:16:30 PM »
yup, pretty much. personally, i think they should have given the ardent a half manifester level with other classes, like initiator levels with ToB:BoNS classes. that would have made for a very interesting class. even fits with the flavor of the ardent.

the citation is that i emailed the designer, i asked him, and that's what he said.

and by designer, i mean Bruce R. Cordell, the listed author of the XPH.

i can copy-paste the exact text if you like.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 06:20:36 PM by nijineko »

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 03:23:55 AM »
Has no one else noticed that you can blow your psionic focus to 'take 15' on concentration, which makes that 'blow focus for +5' thing kinda useless.  Take 15 is better in 99.9 percent of situations.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 09:20:23 PM »
Has no one else noticed that you can blow your psionic focus to 'take 15' on concentration, which makes that 'blow focus for +5' thing kinda useless.  Take 15 is better in 99.9 percent of situations.

i guess it depends on how many ranks you have? after all, take 15 is less than if you have 10 ranks, get a plus 5, and roll even a 1.

Offline Garryl

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 09:46:11 PM »
Has no one else noticed that you can blow your psionic focus to 'take 15' on concentration, which makes that 'blow focus for +5' thing kinda useless.  Take 15 is better in 99.9 percent of situations.

i guess it depends on how many ranks you have? after all, take 15 is less than if you have 10 ranks, get a plus 5, and roll even a 1.

Take 15 means you're treated as rolling a 15 on the die, not that you get a final result of 15. You just replace the +1d20 component of your check result with a +15.

Taking 15 is even with blowing the focus for a +5 bonus when you're in a position to take 10 (15+0 vs. 10+5) if that's enough to hit the target DC. If it isn't, the mantle's +5 bonus on a roll is obviously superior (since taking 15 does nothing for you in that case). Blowing the focus to take 15 does have the advantage under stressful situations to auto-succeed on low- to mid-DC checks, but it bases itself on taking 10 and does not explicitly allow you to take 10 (er, 15) when threatened or distracted, so this might be unusable. In that case, Repose Mantle's ability (spend focus for +5) is obviously superior.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 10:00:01 PM »
A always assumed the take 15 was allowed even when 'threatened, etc', otherwise the ability just isn't very useful at all.

But eh, if you want to play RAW, i suppose you are correct.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 10:13:26 PM »
The wording does imply an intent to allow taking 15 when threatened (at least by my reading; it says what you have to do and when you can do it, while the part about being like taking 10 seems more like an afterthought tacked on to help explain the effects, rather than an addition to the requirements; this might be wishful thinking). However, my quick reading of the ability (under the Concentration skill) in the SRD didn't turn up any explicit contradictions to the limitations of taking 10.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 10:41:25 PM »
ah, right... not sure how i misremembered that. can i blame it on homework frying my brain?

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 08:11:01 PM »
I thought Inspired had an LA of +1, not +3.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 12:40:11 AM »
inspired have an LA: - ... and note flatly stating they are not suitable for characters, go play a kalashtar.

empty vessels have an LA: +1, which might be what you were thinking of.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 02:27:54 PM »
Honestly, even without the ACFs and without the special way of getting powers known, Ardents are more than playable. All that other stuff is just icing on the cake.

I'm thinking of updating this handbook. Samb's writing style is a bit... I suppose eager is the most charitable term, but I'm a bigger fan of a more clinical handbook like Saeomon's. "This is good and here's why, this sucks and here's why," etc. He also left out a bunch of great PrCs for them (I think they're the best entry to Subverted Psion hands-down, not to mention obvious stuff like Psychic Theurge) and I'd like more of a focus on how to build a good ardent if all the supplementary stuff that makes the uber is disallowed. (Not all DMs like Mind's Eye.)

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2011, 05:12:33 PM »
Honestly, even without the ACFs and without the special way of getting powers known, Ardents are more than playable. All that other stuff is just icing on the cake.

I'm thinking of updating this handbook. Samb's writing style is a bit... I suppose eager is the most charitable term, but I'm a bigger fan of a more clinical handbook like Saeomon's. "This is good and here's why, this sucks and here's why," etc. He also left out a bunch of great PrCs for them (I think they're the best entry to Subverted Psion hands-down, not to mention obvious stuff like Psychic Theurge) and I'd like more of a focus on how to build a good ardent if all the supplementary stuff that makes the uber is disallowed. (Not all DMs like Mind's Eye.)

i'd be happy to work with you on updating it. i prefer the 'here's the info, decide for yourself' style, myself.

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2013, 04:54:59 AM »
Grateful for the feedback guys and sorry for the nerco post.  Just happy this wasn't lost with the old forum.

I'm thinking of updating this handbook. Samb's writing style is a bit... I suppose eager is the most charitable term, but I'm a bigger fan of a more clinical handbook like Saeomon's. "This is good and here's why, this sucks and here's why," etc. He also left out a bunch of great PrCs for them (I think they're the best entry to Subverted Psion hands-down, not to mention obvious stuff like Psychic Theurge) and I'd like more of a focus on how to build a good ardent if all the supplementary stuff that makes the uber is disallowed. (Not all DMs like Mind's Eye.)
When I type in ardent handbook in google this is still the only ardent handbook for 3.5.  Sorry if you dislike my writing style, I love this class and it shows in my evaluations.  However, I disagree with you when you say I don't state my reasons.  If you disagree with them then feel free to say why instead of discounting it off hand.  I would certeinly add your input as I can't say I looked up subverted psion (I assumed it was psions.....).

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Re: The Ardent Handbook: Dominating the Mantles - by Samb
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2013, 12:45:48 AM »
welcome back!