Author Topic: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities  (Read 123915 times)

Offline Bauglir

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I hereby submit that we ignore its conclusion, whatever it is. It's an argument over what a particular grammar choice implies. I know what my opinion is, but it's a stupid argument and I'm stupider for having skimmed it and thereby forming an opinion.

Offline EjoThims

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I hereby submit that we ignore its conclusion, whatever it is. It's an argument over what a particular grammar choice implies. I know what my opinion is, but it's a stupid argument and I'm stupider for having skimmed it and thereby forming an opinion.

This, especially the last.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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(without engaging with it much at all)

The Sarrukh did leave evidence of their handywork.
So they at least did that.

They could say, Knowledge check all the monsters
that were around at their time, and get a very large pile.

Ripvanwormer has a long FR / Planescape timeline
The Sarrukh show up around the red line.
(click to show/hide)
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Offline Bastian

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I hereby submit that we ignore its conclusion, whatever it is. It's an argument over what a particular grammar choice implies. I know what my opinion is, but it's a stupid argument and I'm stupider for having skimmed it and thereby forming an opinion.

This, especially the last.
Agreed.

Offline OldManAlexi

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Pun-Pun cannot be seen.  With a combination of the Shadow Blend ability of the Shadow Dragon and the Hide in Plain Sight ability of the Shadowspy, Pun-Pun can hide in any situation.  Add in her infinite hide skill modifier and no one is going to find her.  Actually, that infinite hide mod would probably allow her to hide while shouting "I'M HERE. I'M HERE."  Thus, her location would not be a secret so Vecna couldn't find her either. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Pun-Pun cannot be seen.  With a combination of the Shadow Blend ability of the Shadow Dragon and the Hide in Plain Sight ability of the Shadowspy, Pun-Pun can hide in any situation.  Add in her infinite hide skill modifier and no one is going to find her.


Heh good point.


Quote
Actually, that infinite hide mod would probably allow her to hide while shouting "I'M HERE. I'M HERE." 

Pun-pun can generate an Inf loud Sonic something, so this gets into the Create an Object too heavy to lift conundrum.
But only for himself / lesser selves // legit challengers.


Quote
Thus, her location would not be a secret so Vecna couldn't find her either.

Omni Knowledge checks lets you know how to hide Info from Vecna.
And that giving the secret appearance of a "serpent" leaving just the
lightest smidgey hint that it was there ... will tickle Vecna for a long time.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 04:17:56 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline ariasderros

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Ummm... Pun-pun took the Vecna-blooded ability, and does not depend on being Vecna-blooded.
Pun-pun can just kill Vecna, and be done with that little qualm.
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Offline Halinn

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Ummm... Pun-pun took the Vecna-blooded ability, and does not depend on being Vecna-blooded.
Pun-pun can just kill Vecna, and be done with that little qualm.
She could, but she's busy plane shifting to Earth and back to check various dragon magazines and D&D books for interesting abilities.

Offline ariasderros

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... she's busy ...

WHAT!?!

Pun-pun is never 'busy'.
Copy-puns, time travel, the ability to affect any point on any plane from any point on any plane, NI actions in any given round.
Pun-pun killing Vecna would be a reflexive immediate action, done by a copy, before Pun-pun was even 1/4 way through the full ascension.
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Offline Halinn

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... she's busy ...

WHAT!?!

Pun-pun is never 'busy'.
Copy-puns, time travel, the ability to affect any point on any plane from any point on any plane, NI actions in any given round.
Pun-pun killing Vecna would be a reflexive immediate action, done by a copy, before Pun-pun was even 1/4 way through the full ascension.
Immediate action? No way! Those are much too rare to waste on something trivial like killing gods. Besides, why even bother?

Offline ariasderros

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Immediate action? No way! Those are much too rare to waste on something trivial like killing gods. Besides, why even bother?

Infinite secrecy: Vecna-blooded + no Vecna.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Ooooooh ...  :o ... that's dirty ; I like it.

So Vecna exists, and doesn't realize that he/it
has been totally recreated down to the exact
molecule, except for the ability to know a secret
about Pun-pun. 
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Truenamers can increase the Effective Spell Level
by easily increasing the DC check by +4 per level.
Sooo ... the Omniscificer trick can go boom.
Did we have inf Spell level yet?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 03:00:46 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline ariasderros

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Truenamers can increase the Effective Spell Level
by easily increasing the DC check by +4 per level.
Sooo ... the Omniscificer trick can go boom.
Did we have inf Spell level yet?

That's not an infinite. That is a NI. Yes, you can make the check DC, no matter what it is, due to an infinite int mod. However, you must still set what the check DC that you're beating is. Thus, you can say that the spell level is googolplex to the power of googolplex, and have a DC of insanity, but the DC and ESL would still be quantifiable.

Similarly, thanks to the epic feats for spellcasters, yes, pun-pun has infinite spell slots (due to infinite casting stat) with spells of NI levels (due to NI HD).
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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 :(
Ahh, two (or three) steps behind.  Poor Truenamer of Pun-pun.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Insidious Magic is a feat requiring Shadow Weave Magic that renders the effects of any of your non-Evocation or Transmutation undetectable to Divination unless the caster succeeds on a caster level check against your Caster Level + 11.

Oh wow ...  :o ... this is why nobody knew about Pun-pun
before he ("he"/she/it) chose to make himself known.

OK children gather round and consider everything around us
is Pun-pun, except for Evocation and Transmutation magic.
(which we are only just not sure yet about)
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Offline Garryl

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Insidious Magic is a feat requiring Shadow Weave Magic that renders the effects of any of your non-Evocation or Transmutation undetectable to Divination unless the caster succeeds on a caster level check against your Caster Level + 11.

Oh wow ...  :o ... this is why nobody knew about Pun-pun
before he ("he"/she/it) chose to make himself known.

OK children gather round and consider everything around us
is Pun-pun, except for Evocation and Transmutation magic.
(which we are only just not sure yet about)

And Shadowcraft Mage abilities means that anything Evocation on the Sor/Wiz list can be Illusion, too, and thus protected by Insidious Magic.

Offline Mithril Leaf

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Red Wizard of High Sorcery 3 gets the same, but affects all schools.

From The Dragonlance Campaign Setting, the ability is:

Quote
Magic of Mystery: A Red Robe who knows this secret casts spells that are harder to detect and identify. When another spellcaster employs a divination spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, such as a detect magic spell, that may detect the magical aura of one of the Red Robe's spells, the other caster must make a level check (DC 11 + the Red Robe's caster level) to successfully detect the spell. Similarly, a spellcaster attempting to use a divination such as see invisibility to reveal the effects of one of the Red Robe's spells must make a level check to reveal the spell's effects. Any given caster can check only once for each divination spell used, no matter how many of the Red Robe's spell effects may be operating in an area.

In addition, when another spellcaster attempts to identify the spell a Red Robe is casting (for instance, to counterspell it), the DC of the required Spellcraft check is increased by +1 for every 2 class levels the Red Robe has attained.

Offline Amechra

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Ah, well, Pun-Pun gets the best of everything!

Literally.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Forumowicz

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You could just grab vecna-blooded Cloak of Mystery supernatural ability as soon as you get Manipulate Form. Unless someone catches you in the process, you are completely forgotten and immune to divination (no risk of losing the opposed caster check).