Author Topic: Youkai Engineer (base class)  (Read 15324 times)

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 12:11:51 PM »
my apologies if this posting is improper (double posting), but further questions have come up...

in addition to what Sentience can actually let your suit do independent of you while being piloted (A question for Super robot in general, i know.) im a bit unsure about how you tally heavy weapons -pp with investing.

investing dictates i can only put in 5pp per YE level in any one particular Engineering option- does this count even when heavy weapons takes the PP under that amount(for example- I wanna make a B.F.G. at level 1, so i make a ranged Heavy weapon with a d12 damage dice. do i still only have 2 pp left to spend on range mods or anything else, or can i take the full extra point investiture, technically having 15 points at the start instead, to make this gun nice and long ranged with extra bitz, but only spending 5 PP in actuality?), or is it the same as with energy and has a limit to your level?

this would help me understand twin-linking such weapons as well, which sounds like a right blast no matter what, but thinking it through to post i feel like a its probably more like energy. I just want my Big shoota to be proppa, if you don't mind the ork-speak.

the times coming to unveil this class in my campaigns and I couldn't be more stoked with all the little bits of choice I get. just the other day i was gleeful about custom tool, and preparing a killzone by "purchasing" several squares worth of Caltrops and taking position with a heavy weapon. having a mini-vending machine of options and the kind of character bonkers enough to be such a class may shake my campaign up a bit. Personally I'm going for a crazy tech genius Sniper, who's got a scheme or two.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 06:11:12 PM »
Sorry I missed your questions.

System Shock: As normal per Sentience, the suit cannot control itself while you are controlling it. As per System Shock's description, indeed, the suit can use its actions to control the funnels even while you are piloting it. It gives it something to do while you are controlling its body.

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investing dictates i can only put in 5pp per YE level in any one particular Engineering option- does this count even when heavy weapons takes the PP under that amount(for example- I wanna make a B.F.G. at level 1, so i make a ranged Heavy weapon with a d12 damage dice. do i still only have 2 pp left to spend on range mods or anything else, or can i take the full extra point investiture, technically having 15 points at the start instead, to make this gun nice and long ranged with extra bitz, but only spending 5 PP in actuality?), or is it the same as with energy and has a limit to your level?
The total investment cost is what counts as to your pp limit per class level.
Custom weapon costs 1pp by default and every adjustment made to it cost additional pp.
Your B.F.G would cost:
1 (base) + 3 (1d12) -10 Heavy = 1pp (minimum investment). It gives you some leeway to pump it further without paying much pp, allowing you to keep it for other things if you don't need the fullround action for something else.

IE you could, say, add 10-ft. to its range increment (+1pp), make it an area weapon (+4pp) and turn its damage into fire energy damage (+6pp): total 1+3+1+4+6-10 = 5pp
And voilĂ . You got yourself a custom flamethrower for 1 round.

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the times coming to unveil this class in my campaigns and I couldn't be more stoked with all the little bits of choice I get. just the other day i was gleeful about custom tool, and preparing a killzone by "purchasing" several squares worth of Caltrops and taking position with a heavy weapon. having a mini-vending machine of options and the kind of character bonkers enough to be such a class may shake my campaign up a bit. Personally I'm going for a crazy tech genius Sniper, who's got a scheme or two.
^doing it right.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 06:15:36 PM by Anomander »

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2013, 04:26:41 PM »
Ok, here to speak about my current thoughts on YE, but there's a briar path of qualifiers i need to put on this.
Qualifiing statements-
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Character notes, the encounter, and Thoughts.
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TLDR- FRIGGIN LOVE IT, but Still have more studying of it to go- will update when i can.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 10:44:24 PM by Bdrone »

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2013, 11:19:58 PM »
(click to show/hide)

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Glad I made at least one person happy. Thanks for sharing your experience with the thing. It does help.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 11:21:58 PM by Anomander »

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2013, 02:24:52 AM »
Response to Feat Selection

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E.H.S. 001

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Okay, learned even more with this last exchange... I am a bit nervous to share, but if you want a running notation, ill be glad to continue. and i assure you, it does make me happy to get to use such a thing.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 05:08:05 AM by Bdrone »

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2013, 11:06:31 AM »
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but i have a feeling they don't stack for one (armor bonus to AC)
Indeed they would not. Bonuses of the same type do not stack.

I understand that the armor applying for the suit as well can be awkward. The deployed suit absorbs the damage. It shares any DR and nat bonus to AC it gains (but does not have any by default).
If you were to receive more damage than the suit can absorb in your stead, the difference would be dished out to you... and then it would be weird for that damage to bypass your armor if it would have stopped it.
As you said, odds are that unless they multiclass and get some armor proficiencies (or take he feat for it) the average YE will just get an arsenal accessory to take care of her armor to AC once they are available. Especially since arsenal options remain usable even after the suit gets wrecked (which is the opposite of this situation; the armor used by the mecha is somehow still protecting you after it gets destroyed).

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Okay, learned even more with this last exchange... I am a bit nervous to share, but if you want a running notation, ill be glad to continue. and i assure you, it does make me happy to get to use such a thing.
Certainly. Or if the campaign is online you could provide me with a link to it so that I may watch for a while to see how things go. Whichever you are more comfortable with.

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2013, 01:27:11 AM »
Well, the way I saw the Arsenal armor making sense is that we never specify how much we get. Talyin wears hers somewhat hidden under her robe, and in the standard suit activation, i thought of the E.H.S. connecting with certain portions on an undefined level (WAAAGH!!!) in order to make the suit wrap properly, then add additional for tank mode. Although that does make me wonder now, with regards to armor. if you wear arsenal, then step out and let the suit move on it's own with sentience, or use the controller to move it, i assume it can't get the armor benefit as well as you? speaking of that, how close do i have to be to my suit to give it the engineering options (for example, i jump out of the back of an active suit with my arsenal weapon ready to help pour fire down a hole?) although im all but certain i can't make use of those options (like making the weapons) with the suit off...

Anyway, now the standard armor makes sense, and it changes my level 1 perspective of how id have run this- same with feats, the more I glare at sweet pilot ones. but yeah, at the earliest opportunity, Arsenal armor is quite sweet... Talyin's suit in tank mode currently is fufilling it's role. Ive already caught myself staring at my first breakthrough or next Super robot options, since level 2 is so close... that's whats so neat about this to me.  While their might be an optimal method to even this, people will have their own rhyme and reason for taking which upgrades from which trees and when.

Like right now im deciding on the breakthroughs (tossing up between Youkai Drone or system shock (with sentience) for luls, but more seriously, Maintenance or extending arms, maybe turrets), and then i stare at level 2 super robot options. do i take plating, nanomachines, or an improved reactor? what about Sentience programs and balanced to use melee more efficiently?

you know, you've heard what i like (MOAR DAKKA. seriously, how soon can i stick a Youkai Drone, a sentient Suit, enough points to give them both weaponry, and arsenal myself to fire dakka everywhere?), but what do you like out of it? I assume you are also testing it somehow... what do you do with it?

I run my campaigns as an all in one spot on roll20 whenever I can get my players on. He hasn't been about the last few days, but I'm hoping he appears soon so I can continue the field test- also because I really want to work on how I handle Character Interaction. Once i figure out how to let you in (my player got me into using the system and even using maps, really), I may PM you the details. whats the point of working hard to tell a story if only the ones on stage see it?

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2013, 01:57:11 PM »
Quote
if you wear arsenal, then step out and let the suit move on it's own with sentience, or use the controller to move it, i assume it can't get the armor benefit as well as you?
(click to show/hide)

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speaking of that, how close do i have to be to my suit to give it the engineering options (for example, i jump out of the back of an active suit with my arsenal weapon ready to help pour fire down a hole?) although im all but certain i can't make use of those options (like making the weapons) with the suit off...
(click to show/hide)

Quote
Like right now im deciding on the breakthroughs (tossing up between Youkai Drone or system shock (with sentience) for luls, but more seriously, Maintenance or extending arms, maybe turrets), and then i stare at level 2 super robot options. do i take plating, nanomachines, or an improved reactor? what about Sentience programs and balanced to use melee more efficiently?
(click to show/hide)

Quote
you know, you've heard what i like (MOAR DAKKA. seriously, how soon can i stick a Youkai Drone, a sentient Suit, enough points to give them both weaponry, and arsenal myself to fire dakka everywhere?), but what do you like out of it? I assume you are also testing it somehow... what do you do with it?
(click to show/hide)

Quote
whats the point of working hard to tell a story if only the ones on stage see it?
Writing the story by itself can be its own reward, even if only the writer were to know of it.
But yes, I'd be glad to witness the progress of the campaign, if only for the glory of science.

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2013, 03:16:35 PM »
With regards to Arsenal and emergency plans

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With regards to Engineering Options and Breakthroughs

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And.. Bonus! the Spider encounter finishes.

(click to show/hide)

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2013, 05:48:12 PM »
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With regards to Arsenal and emergency plans: would that essentially let me use my suit undeployed?
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the Spider encounter finishes.
Well, I imagine you'll remember how it went down and gained more experience in establishing combat encounters. Tailoring the next fight should allow you to raise the challenge. If anything it might have fit one of those situations where the party should get less xp because the encounter's CR was affected by the environment (which wasn't prepared by the PCs). Like the DMG example of the party setting fire to an entire orc camp filled with gun powder.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:16:00 PM by Anomander »

Offline Bdrone

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2013, 01:41:02 PM »
Suits, and leprechauns (and recent change commentary)!

(click to show/hide)

Planning encounters

(click to show/hide)

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2013, 08:36:36 PM »
Thanks for the notice. It is fixed now.

I did greatly reduce the maneuvers readied. I'm still working out on some numbers and wouldn't be surprised if some needed more adjustments. Be them raises or drops.
Also considering adding an energy cost on top of the pp costs when maneuvers are used with the youkai suit. Or a similar measure such as making the maneuvers usable only with the suit or a substitute such as the EM Package or even any other situation in which you have some energy to spend. Could maybe make another yet feat that includes that feature.

Drone technically doesn't need energy to move but for clarity I've added a note on the PP experimental engineering options for movement modes (which is the only way to give it new movement modes) for those that require energy to move. That would make it clearer that the drone would need energy to fly if that movement speed is added to it.

Offline Felyndiira

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2018, 09:28:54 AM »
Hey, Anomander.  I know this is a really old homebrew for you, but I just wanted to check on this line:

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So for example a Moon Vanguard 8/Youkai Engineer 4 would count as having IL/PL 10 for other Moon Vanguard ability purposes and IL/PL 6 for other Youkai Engineer ability purposes.

Does this mean that the sample Moon Vanguard would count as level 10 for determining max spirit, and level 6 for determining the engineer's max points per engineering option/integrated technology progression/max progress points?

Also, I'm guessing that she wouldn't get the Youkai Engineer level 5 bonus feat/level 6 breakthrough or the Moon Vanguard's level 9 learned spirit/level 10 bonus feat, since those are table features.  But, I want to make sure about this as well.

Thanks.

Offline Anomander

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Re: Youkai Engineer (base class)
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 12:43:19 AM »
This is only for calculating the effective initiator/pilot level of the other abilities. It does not grant abilities.
And it is also terrible, terrible math. The YE should be of that example should be at 8 since (4 + (8/2)). Fixed. I seem to recall there were other stuff to clarify but I'll bother with it later.