Author Topic: General Discussion and Sugestions  (Read 75406 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 09:24:03 AM »
But it can't move. D:

It's also the sole irredeemably evil thing in all of Touhou. XD

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2013, 04:12:46 PM »
While working, I just got what I think is one great idea to mechanize Marisa. Class, discipline. The whole thing.
It could also be used for a Patchouli system.
We are in a never-ending rush period at work so I don't have much spare time this season, which might make fleshing out the whole thing pretty slow. I hope you're not working on something similar already.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2013, 04:18:25 PM »
Care to share? Because, honestly, I'm a bit suspicious about utilising Marisa and Patchouli. :eh

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2013, 04:21:25 PM »
While working, I just got what I think is one great idea to mechanize Marisa. Class, discipline. The whole thing.
It could also be used for a Patchouli system.
We are in a never-ending rush period at work so I don't have much spare time this season, which might make fleshing out the whole thing pretty slow. I hope you're not working on something similar already.
Look at my avatar. I've been working on Marisa ever since I started this. I didn't post it yet because I believed it still wasn't good enough.

If you're forcing my hand however, I should be able to clean it up and post it in the next days.

Also, Patchouli will get her own system. Anything less would be just lazy.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2013, 04:28:18 PM »
Ah, then maybe I can help you a bit with the rough edges once its out.
I didn't mean to use the same exact system for Patchouli, just use it as a base since they are both magicians.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2013, 04:42:13 PM »
Patchouli is a Western Magician that uses Eastern stylings. Marisa is an Eastern Magician that uses Western stylings. One is a human, who gets their power from advance preparation; the other was born magical (unlike Alice). They both use magic, but the similarities end there.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2013, 04:47:28 PM »
I know. They are still both magicians. One is a natural one and the other isn't.
Not far from dnd's wizard/sorcerer. Both use a similar system with a few differences.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2013, 04:51:14 PM »
Here's a very rough outline for anyone wanting to offer sugestions:
-Base class has both maneuvers and custom spellcasting system, as in can reach 9th level spells, but can only prepare an handful per day.
-Broomstick as weapon/transport, Hakkero to power up magic, also unstable potions, can quickly collect Magic Mushrooms.
-Base class also has ability to learn/research new spells after battle, altough again can only pick up a few at a time. Altough Marisa is infamous for stealing acquiring spells from others, she never does so during battle, and is actually enphasized she takes her time researching and experimenting before actually bringing it up into battle.
-School has maneuvers that all combine with damage-dealing spells to buff them up.
-Stances allow you to pick a damaging spell you have prepared and spam it with some limitations.
-Base school based on Int and Use Magic Device.

Still deciding on the name since Marisa has over a dozen theme songs. Magus Night, Witch's Ball and Love-Colored Magic are my current favorite options.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2013, 05:08:50 PM »
Love-Coloured Magic is probably the most appropriate, given that this is a school about her magic.

So, about what level do the various versions of Master Spark fall?

UMD? I would have expected Spellcraft. The one magical item she legitimately needs, the mini-Hakkero, was made for her. :huh

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2013, 05:10:48 PM »
Class would be Ordinary Magician. Discipline would be Magus Night. (At least that's what I was going for)

I was thinking that her discipline could be entirely fuelled by spellcasting. She gets spells like most wizards would, but can invest prepared spells into maneuver slots. Something like sacrifice 2 level 4 spells to gain a level 4 readied maneuver. Recharging maneuvers could be done with further spell sacrifices.
Mostly because giving dual progression of any maneuvers and spells going up to level 9, even if just a few, would probably be way too good (even one of each with bonus spells for high ability score would probably be too generous).

Her maneuvers known would be in the form of books. One book per maneuver known.

A stance wouldn't require spell payments.
Mushrooms could be her only spell components. Hakkero (other thingy depending on the adept) is the only spell focus. Some maneuvers could still require somatic/vocal components and the need for the spell focus/components.
Metamagics work with the maneuvers, to a point.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2013, 05:15:54 PM »
If Marisa's maneuvers are basically metamagic stuff... really cut-down spell list on level up (Marisa... is not the greatest at spell creation), so any versatility has to be derived from that used against you? Would say prohibit metamagic feats, but I'm not sure that's possible. XD

Anomander... that sounds annoyingly complicated.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2013, 05:22:05 PM »
It's actually pretty simple.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2013, 05:28:04 PM »
Spellcraft does sound a better fit indeed. I was a little hesitant on it since I already used that skill for Breath of Fire. But tecnically no other ToBhou school used it yet, so spellcraft it will be. Patchoulli would be Knowledge(Arcana) after that.

When I say an "handful" of spells, I do mean just an handful. No bonus spells from high int. No leveled slots. She gets like 3-6 spells per day, that's it, fill them as you wish up to the top level you're able to cast. Marisa starts with max power and burns out fast from there. Anyway sacrificing spells to recover maneuvers would only make sense if the spells were even stronger than the maneuvers.

Mushrooms as substitute spell components sounds like a good idea. Books for maneuvers known sounds more like something for Patchy.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2013, 05:36:10 PM »
Marisa steals books as a reference, but then again... she steals everything. If Sleight of Hand isn't involved somewhere, I feel something's gone wrong (and I recall from somewhere that Alice isn't much better. Damn thieves)

The issue with using spells to recover maneuvers on a one-to-one basis: it makes maneuvers a finite resource that needs at least some token effort at conservation. What 1st through to 9th level finite resource do we have that allows you to use certain abilities? Spells. :/

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2013, 05:41:36 PM »
Not on a one-to-one basis.
Sacrifice spells whose levels equal the level of the maneuver to be recovered. Or whose levels equal half the maneuver level, in case it burns them too quickly (level 0 spells counting as half a level). But that is only in battle.
Maneuvers all recharge automatically at the start of an encounter as usual and can be recharged with a cooldown out of combat.

Patchouli is a natural magician but they all seem to rely on books for high spellcasting.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 05:44:57 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2013, 05:46:51 PM »
Are we sure she's not just a bibliophile? It's her library, not Remilia's. They're friends, after all.

Also, there's a flaw with the above comparison (sorcerer vs wizard): that doesn't cover the fact they're different types of magicians. It's more Sorcerer as opposed to Cleric.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2013, 05:55:14 PM »
Sleight of hand sounds... Lovely actually. And I had already planned on the base class having some "Yoink I'll be burrowing that now" abilities.

Marisa never carries books into combat. Alice carries her grimoire, but then very rarely actually uses it. Patchoulli is the only one that actively reads books during combat.

Also, limiting Marisa's recharge of maneuvers during combat to a resource limited per day just sounds cruel. One of the most praised aspects of ToB has always been relatively free recharge of your combat tricks in the heat of the action.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2013, 06:00:04 PM »
I think Alice carries her Grimoire because she doesn't want someone stealing it. XD

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2013, 06:03:09 PM »
Are we sure she's not just a bibliophile?
That's how I see it.
Comparing it to cleric is a big stretch. More as with a Wu Jen or Shugenja.


Patchoulli is the only one that actively reads books during combat.
She reads books in battle, but I'm not sure they actually help her in combat. Might just be her reading pretty much all the time.

The idea was not the need to have the books in battle. Just read them to have them known for the day.
The Grimoire could be Patchouli's version of the hakkero. Some kind of spell focus.

Also, limiting Marisa's recharge of maneuvers during combat to a resource limited per day just sounds cruel.
Doesn't sound so cruel to me when I remember she'd still have spellcasting and that the entire use of the maneuvers would be optional. I very good option, mind you.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 06:04:52 PM by Anomander »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2013, 06:08:27 PM »
Cleric is because I couldn't think of any distinctive arcane casters aside from bards.  -_-'


If the point is to have a ToB school with minor spellcasting capability, making their ability to use combat maneuvers in combat dependent upon sacrificing a limited resource is... weird. :huh