Author Topic: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign  (Read 41543 times)

Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2012, 02:23:43 PM »
That seems absolutely fine to me.

As for traits and flaws, I do not allow them. Sorry 'bout that.
That's fine. It had to be asked regardless.
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Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2012, 03:16:10 PM »
My knight's done, and ready for approval. Pretty sure I didn't miss anything. http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=361747
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2012, 06:41:19 PM »
Approved. I've always liked Knights  :D

Now we need three more, then we can get started.

Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 12:29:27 AM »
Approved. I've always liked Knights  :D

Now we need three more, then we can get started.
I like the concept of knights. I do agree that they should have been bumped up more with a Fort save and a Diplomacy skill, but oh well. I've played one before, but only briefly because the DM didn't want to run the campaign any more.

I'd forgotten how expensive it is for loading up animals. Still have to invest in barding and a feed bag.

Also, I want to bring this up for question. Would you allow the dead level "fill ins" that WotC created?
Dead Levels 1 (core classes) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a
Dead Levels 2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 04:13:49 AM »
Normally, I'd say no, but given the fact that everyone is going to be T5/T6, I'd say it's just fine. But naturally, enemies will benefit from these as well  :plotting

Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 04:15:16 AM »
Normally, I'd say no, but given the fact that everyone is going to be T5/T6, I'd say it's just fine. But naturally, enemies will benefit from these as well  :plotting
Yes, "benefit". That's the word. The knight doesn't get anything until the high teens so it doesn't affect me any.
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Offline ShadowViper

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 07:30:01 AM »
Thinking Samurai or Ninja, possibly Swashbuckler/Fighter as well.
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Offline lans

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 01:34:24 PM »
I'm 50/50 on either Divine Mind or Healer, so I'm statting up both of them before I decide

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2012, 02:01:33 PM »
Thinking Samurai or Ninja, possibly Swashbuckler/Fighter as well.

Well if you need help building a ninja, ShadowViper, check my signature  :D

lans, I have personally better dealings with the Healer than the Divine Mind, but then again the Divine Mind died in the third combat of the adventure. Could just be my personal bias creeping in.

Of course, kevin video, since the campaign is restricted to T5/T6, both enemy and ally NPCs will likewise be restricted to such class tiers as well. It would not be very sporting of me to throw a wizard into the fray given the circumstances, now would it?

Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2012, 02:05:42 PM »
Of course, kevin video, since the campaign is restricted to T5/T6, both enemy and ally NPCs will likewise be restricted to such class tiers as well. It would not be very sporting of me to throw a wizard into the fray given the circumstances, now would it?
What? Sure it would. Granted he wouldn't be the first guy you fight, but likely the evil archmage that the low tier group has to go up against at the very end, as everything that's wrong with the world is due to his manipulations. That is, if you go for the kind of cliched story.

Or are we the guys that never get to see that kind of action because we're being sent into the sewers to deal with all kobolds running amuck like some kind of pest control employee, instead?
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2012, 07:16:41 PM »
Neither so cliche as a world-dominating wizard nor so boring as The Kobold Busters. While designing some material for this campaign, I thought of an idea as to why the PCs and NPCs involved were not of more powerful classes (in-game reason, that is). I came to the conclusion that the other classes simply don't exist.

Gods are aloof and distant, and want to stay that way. Healers and Divine Minds, being such rarities, are viewed as prophets of good or ill and are thought of as minuscule fragments of the gods' will. Deities simply don't interfere in the affairs of mortals often enough to justify clerics or favored souls. The spirits of nature are equally aloof, and choose to manifest themselves in physical form when they wish to be known, rather than manifesting their powers through druids, spirit shamans, adepts, or even rangers.

Arcane magic is also an incredible rarity. Dragons certainly aren't likely to share their secrets, and their non-dragon offspring do not inherently have the capacity to cast spells, so sorcerers are simply never born (two half-dragons mating produce a spellscale, in case anyone was thinking of playing one and needed a fluff reason for existing). Likewise, no one is brave enough to amass enough stolen arcane scrolls to study, for the last man who had the audacity to begin researching learned arcane magic was met with swift retribution when the dragons learned of what he was doing. Hence, being a wizard is the last thing anyone wants to do, even if they could.

The knowledge of the martial adepts is scattered and difficult to come by. What little knowledge of their arts that is known is consolidated and taught to aspiring warriors willing to learn (via the Martial Study/Stance feats), but by and large the martial adepts are little more than myths. This prevents the existence of crusaders, swordsages, and warblades, while still leaving a wide diversity of warriors (fighters, monks, swashbucklers, paladins, knights, both types of samurai, and yes even the warrior npc class). However, a few eager youngsters will occasionally try to follow in the footsteps of these mythical martial adepts as they search for the fabled Nine Swords.

Even rogues simply have no place in this world. Youngsters showing a roguish inclination only truly have two paths in life: either they are taken under the wing of a swashbuckler looking for an apprentice, or inducted into the fold of one of the ninja clans looking for those with such talents (again, both ninja base classes are allowed). A third path does exist for roguish youngsters, but it is not one typically to their liking: a swift execution for their crimes.

A rough campaign concept, but I think it should help everyone get a feel for what to expect.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2012, 07:19:47 PM »
That campaign idea sounds awesome.  What about incarnum?  Or psionics other than divine mind?
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Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2012, 07:31:38 PM »
That campaign idea sounds awesome.  What about incarnum?  Or psionics other than divine mind?
Basically what we get to choose from is anything Tier 5 and 6.

Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths. DMs may have to work to avoid the player feeling that their character is worthless unless the entire party is Tier 4 and below. Characters in this tier will often feel like one trick ponies if they do well, or just feel like they have no tricks at all if they build the class poorly.

Examples: Fighter, Monk, CA Ninja, Healer, Swashbuckler, Rokugan Ninja, Soulknife, CW Spell-less Ranger, Expert, OA Samurai, Paladin, Knight, CW Samurai (with Imperious Command available), Divine Mind, Soulborn.

Tier 6: Not even capable of shining in their own area of expertise. DMs will need to work hard to make encounters that this sort of character can contribute in with their mechanical abilities. Will often feel worthless unless the character is seriously powergamed beyond belief, and even then won't be terribly impressive. Needs to fight enemies of lower than normal CR. Class is often completely unsynergized or with almost no abilities of merit. Avoid allowing PCs to play these characters.

Examples: CW Samurai (without Imperious Command available), Aristocrat, Warrior, Commoner

A lot of psionics are Tier 4 or higher. Incarnate is Tier 3.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 07:37:38 PM by kevin video »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2012, 07:52:16 PM »
Oh, I know what the tiers mean.  I was just wondering what the justification was for, say, Divine Mind and not Ardent or Wilder; or Soulborn and not Incarnate.
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Offline Shiki

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2012, 08:28:30 PM »
Is there still space for this..? I'd SO like to try out a Soulborn.. :blush

Offline kevin video

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2012, 08:29:14 PM »
Is there still space for this..? I'd SO like to try out a Soulborn.. :blush
I think it's first come, first serve. Lots of people have shown interest, but only I've made a character sheet.
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Offline Shiki

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2012, 08:45:11 PM »
^Guess I'll try to make it fast just so I get a place heh. :plotting

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2012, 10:10:13 PM »
Certain rogue types might also be Experts.

Offline Shiki

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2012, 10:31:13 PM »
Can we use Magic-Blooded and whatnot from Dragon #306?

EDIT: Preferred alignment, people?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:47:17 PM by Shiki »

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Low tier Campaign
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2012, 11:55:50 PM »
@sirpercival: The justification for Soulborn but not other incarnum classes is this: Being able to wield soulmelds is not seen as a blessing, but a curse. In the same way that dragons jealously guard the secrets of the arcane, lest it be used against them, they fear the use of incarnum. In their eyes, this unchecked "inner magic" is something that must be extinguished (or better yet, used for their own gain). Those born with the power to utilize incarnum, Soulborns, try to hide their nature from the prying eyes of the draconic spies that stalk the shadows of other races' civilizations, searching for both caches of arcane knowledge and those who can use incarnum. Because those who can use incarnum suppress or at least limit their use of it, this explains why Soulborns have such a slow soulmeld progression. Those who try to tap more fully into the use of incarnum (either incarnates or totemists) are soon either found and killed or spirited away.

@Jackinthegreen: Experts would be those few who avoid both swashbuckler and ninja training, and have the capacity to restrain their criminal activities to a minimum.

@Shiki: Yes, it is first come first served. As for the Magic-Blooded template, I can't really imagine that it would make much sense given the campaign concept presented so far.