Author Topic: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu  (Read 5930 times)

Offline ImperatorK

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Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« on: May 15, 2013, 01:22:15 PM »
I'm making an NPC. He's a human with some templates. His Str and Con are decent. Dex, Int and Wis very high. His Cha is huge (that's his shtick, being very charismatic). He's still a boy (14 year old), Neutral Good aligned, born and living in a big metropolis in the Red Light district. His mother is the Madam of a popular brothel. He's going into family business and is already taking some theoretical lessons (which are stated as a few ranks in appropriate Profession/Perform/social skills).
I'm looking for ideas for some interesting personality flaws or something that would make him less of a Gary Stu. I fear I'll make him one accidentally, because his ability scores are so high and it would be tempting to just roleplay him as this perfect kid (no, lowering his ability scores is not an option).
His pic:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 01:28:26 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline bhu

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 12:45:22 AM »

Offline Libertad

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 12:59:17 AM »
Not related to Gary-Stuness, but you might want to up his age a few years if it's something your players will get squicked out at.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 07:05:25 AM »
http://www.unusualphobias.com/Oddestpage.html

Give him one of these
I didn't mean phobias.

Not related to Gary-Stuness, but you might want to up his age a few years if it's something your players will get squicked out at.
They won't.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 07:06:58 AM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Senevri

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 09:34:30 AM »
It's not the powers as much as the behavior of the character.

One obvious flaw just from the stats is, this character believes he's the king of the world, so to speak, so it's likely he'll be getting himself into trouble above his abilities to handle. Maybe not combat, but, for an example, the character may BELIEVE they can talk their way out of trouble, when they really can't.

Sure, a high WIS should offset that as a rule, but if you skirt the edge of what just might be doable,  you're likely to end up in trouble quite enough.

Think roles played by charismatic actors, and what their character flaws were - Any role with Sean Connery, David Tennant as the Doctor, and so forth.

In "real world", a high Wis, Int, Cha character IS very good.
Also, if he has appropriately heroic traits, it will make him less annoying, if he goes out of his way to help people, for an example.

There are plenty of options, really. both of Jim Butcher's series have high int-wis-cha characters, who are far enough from perfect - and even if perfect, still entertaining.

You might consider looking at such things as the character's virtues and vices - say, virtues as in Exalted - compassion, temperance, valor, conviction, and give him a primary and secondary sin - pride and sloth, for an example.

Any idea what sort of a game it will be?



Offline bhu

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2013, 02:44:14 PM »
Have you considered making him not good.  Not necessarily evil per se, but neutral.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 04:32:28 PM »
Sure, a high WIS should offset that as a rule, but if you skirt the edge of what just might be doable,  you're likely to end up in trouble quite enough.
Or maybe he knows right from wrong and smart from stupid, but does those things regardless? From pride, as you said?

Quote
Any idea what sort of a game it will be?
Mix of everything. Definitely mature (as in 18+). Urban at the start.

Have you considered making him not good.  Not necessarily evil per se, but neutral.
No. He has to be Good.
Magic is for weaklings.

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Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 07:04:06 PM »
Gary Stu, as a term, is typically identified by a combination of who they are and what they do, but also how the rest of the characters in the work react to them.
The key difference between D&D and any other work of fiction is the players involved.  While you have no direct control over how their characters will react to your character, it's basically no different than writing any other story, and Willing Suspension of Disbelief will play a big part.  It's not always enough to just add flaws, especially if they are poorly thought out; too many will make him into a clown and too few will disconnect the character from reality.

To start off, remember that his high statistics don't necessarily define everything about the character, despite what the Player's Handbook would have you believe.

High Intelligence might indicate a particularly good memory or lots of book smarts, but very little in the way of practical real-world knowledge.
High Wisdom might mean he is particularly observant, but at the same time he could also be incredibly gullible and naive.
High Charisma could indicate he is incredibly persuasive and good at getting his way, but might be manipulative and uncaring rather than charming and considerate.

There are lots of reasons a character can be interesting in spite of itself.  It wouldn't be hard at all to take this character out of typical Stu territory and make him interesting.  Of course it would certainly be easier if you weren't restricting him to Neutral Good alignment... which leads me to think...



When you say "not a Gary Stu", I'm guessing you mean that you want the players to actually like the character as well?

Well based on what I know about him from you just told me in the first post....
He is the 14-year-old son of the manager of a whorehouse.  Brothels are not always the nicest places to work, and not everyone who works there does so willingly (at worst, making it tantamount to slavery).  He is going into the family business, which implies he considers such activities to be perfectly acceptable, and his ability scores indicate he has the capacity to make such a decision.  His appearence and expression indicate a possible combination of boredom and a general sense of superiority to those around him, which I would instantly attribute to his natural abilities or some kind of social status.
...Yeah, if I were a player in your game?  You'd have your work cut out for you.

Him not being a Gary Stu is going to be less about the character traits and more about how he reacts to the circumstances he is in.  As a player I would need a significant number of background details to change my outlook on him.  Since the Madam is the lady in charge, when you say "going into the family business" does that mean he is being groomed to work in the brothel, or just run it?  What does a family business mean exactly, does he have other relatives who work there, or do they just manage it as well?  Does he understand exactly what a brothel does?  Is he really okay with that?

If you simply must have a flaw on him that you can roleplay:
He might have a neutral good alignment simply from having good thoughts, even if he never actually performed a single good deed in his entire life.  Maybe he is too lazy to put any real effort into doing good things, or maybe he doesn't bother because he thinks no one will take a child seriously.
Or maybe he is too scared to try.  His combination of natural talents would certainly inspire jealously in more than a couple of his peers.  Maybe he has lived too much of his life getting bullied or ridiculed and thus lacks the self-confidence to act on any of his ideas.  This one can easily slip into Gary Stu territory ("Oh I'm so cursed! I wish I was normal!") when you fail to establish that his positives actually have downsides to them, so when going this route it's important to establish that his low self-esteem is an actual FLAW that constantly impedes him and he cannot figure out how to overcome.
Other flaws you might consider are brashness and lack of long-term forethought.  I've personally met quite a few people who were considerably intelligent and very well-liked, but were hamstrung by their preclivity towards taking action combined with their inability to look farther than twenty minutes down the road.

Note that while such a flaws are realistic, they won't always endear the party to him.
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Offline brujon

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »
Overconfident "Cocky" but likable kid is a trope you can play that falls out of the realm of Gary Stu'ness. It's still clichéd, though.

Introvert Shy Kid that everyone likes just because. -> also a clichéd trope, but if played right can be interesting. Lots of opportunity for character growth. Classic Shõnen trope.

Kid "Genius". You did say his ability scores are all around high right? If he has a good Wis and Int score as well as a big Charisma, you can play him like a Likable Kid Genius. Maybe make him interested in weird shit no kid his age likes, like hardcore military warfare and tactics, like a adolescent Hannibal (No, not Lecter, the one that stuck a middle finger up to the Romans).

Weird ass funny kid -> That one that stands out, and is different from everybody, but everyone likes him because he's so weird and strange but also charismatic as fuck. Choose 1001 weird hobbies for him and make him dress in a weird way.

Maybe even make him crossdress, because that's bound to be weird as f*ck in a medieval society. Also appropriate for a mature game.

Eh, i'm spent.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 08:40:42 PM »
Quote
Since the Madam is the lady in charge, when you say "going into the family business" does that mean he is being groomed to work in the brothel, or just run it?
Both.

Quote
What does a family business mean exactly, does he have other relatives who work there, or do they just manage it as well?
His mother is a half-eladrin human Cleric of Sharess (Godess of Cats and Pleasure, for those that don't know FR). He has 4 older and 2 younger sisters (who are muse-touched aasimars). All did or are going through the same training and education as him.

Quote
Does he understand exactly what a brothel does?
He has an idea. His mother's establishment is just one of many in the city.

Quote
Is he really okay with that?
He is, because as a follower of Sharess he was taught that sex is good and his mother is good aligned and treats her workers fairly.
Magic is for weaklings.

Alucard: "*snif snif* Huh? Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here. Oh, if it isn't the Catholic Church. And what's this? No little Timmy glued to your crotch. Progress!"
My YT channel - LoL gameplay

Offline Skevvix

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Re: Help me avoid making a Gary Stu
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 07:21:50 AM »
Maybe make him interested in weird shit no kid his age likes, like hardcore military warfare and tactics, like a adolescent Hannibal (No, not Lecter, the one that stuck a middle finger up to the Romans).

Missed the "to" first read through.  lol