Author Topic: Discussion  (Read 34226 times)

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2013, 01:46:48 AM »
Sounds like it might warrant some bonus feats.  Also, please, for the love of god, add a Remnant Caster Level prereq onto the feats, so that they can scale properly. 

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #101 on: November 06, 2013, 11:10:16 AM »
You don't think they'll scale properly just because they'll require you to cast an amount of RP per turn? I mean, if you have a feat that gives you an ability that costs Wish x5, you're pretty much not going to be able to use it until level 14 or 15 or something.

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2013, 06:30:07 AM »
There are two results:
1) You say "you need this many RP to enter", and then someone will find a way to get that many earlier than you expected.

2) You say "you need to be this level to enter", and you are guaranteed that noone will cheat their way in.

I tend to prefer the latter.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2014, 11:23:42 AM »
And after 2 months of inactivity, I have good news for anyone still following this or remotely interested in its outcome, and that's that I've been working on the material for Remnant Magic this entire time! I have already (finally) perfected all of the remnants and made a fix for the Magician's Secret class feature that makes it more distinct from the abilities the class already gets through remnants. And I'm halfway done with the new feats, which I have named Spellform Feats. I should hopefully be able to post this stuff within a few days, but the Spellform Feats will wait until I've completed all 10 of them, for 30 spellforms in total. Some of them also reference new Remnant-based monsters that I have not yet made, so hopefully those will follow.

This post doesn't guarantee that I'll be consistently devoting time to this from now on, unfortunately. College classes are starting again, so it's going to be hard to work on this. But I really want to finish this properly and move on to some of the other 6 subsystems, and hopefully it won't take me until the summer to do that.

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #104 on: March 28, 2014, 09:19:02 AM »
Ooh.  New post.

Spellforms...  Interesting.  Standard activation fixes a lot of potential breakages.  I like that.

Going through them...  The list is mostly fine.
You mistakenly wrote "Cold" for fire snow, which I assume should be chill. 
How does Apparent Strength interact with someone trying to lift an actual person?
Shadowy Bodyguard might need a clause saying you need to be aware of the potential attacker.  Not certain if it's necessary, but my spidey sense is tingling.
Illusory Monster should either be CR-based, or have a no-template clause. 
What's a thunderbeast?
Reciprocate Spells seems...  weird.
Although difficult...  I'm worried about Persistent Hypothetical Future.  It does require me to find a way for a sorcerer to have 14 6th level spells available in a day, so it should be ok.
Dead Eyes is probably a bit powerful, as a second level save or lose with a lesser lose on a successful save.
Change Form...  Umm...  Really?  You took one of the most powerful spells in the game and included it in your system?  :(  Could I talk you into having a list of monsters you can turn into instead?  Maybe a bonus to attack based on CL or something like that to make up for the lack of scaling?  That way, you can use the newer polymorph rules.
Phase Transition...  So, at level 12, I can take 12 10 ft cubes of air and transform them into a prison for whatever creatures where inside it, and those creatures start suffocating?  With no save?  I'm clearly not reading this right.

So...  Change Form and Phase Transition are...  problematic at best.  There's some potential abuse I can see on some other spells, but it seems difficult at best.  (Illusory Monster could actually be fine as an AoE will-save-or-die, since you have to be level 18 to even cast it).  The way metamagic works at the moment means that you can start casting metamagic'd versions of spells as soon as you get them, which might be problematic.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #105 on: March 28, 2014, 09:24:25 PM »
Ooh.  New post.

Spellforms...  Interesting.  Standard activation fixes a lot of potential breakages.  I like that.

Going through them...  The list is mostly fine.
You mistakenly wrote "Cold" for fire snow, which I assume should be chill. 
How does Apparent Strength interact with someone trying to lift an actual person?
Shadowy Bodyguard might need a clause saying you need to be aware of the potential attacker.  Not certain if it's necessary, but my spidey sense is tingling.
Illusory Monster should either be CR-based, or have a no-template clause. 
What's a thunderbeast?
Reciprocate Spells seems...  weird.
Although difficult...  I'm worried about Persistent Hypothetical Future.  It does require me to find a way for a sorcerer to have 14 6th level spells available in a day, so it should be ok.
Dead Eyes is probably a bit powerful, as a second level save or lose with a lesser lose on a successful save.
Change Form...  Umm...  Really?  You took one of the most powerful spells in the game and included it in your system?  :(  Could I talk you into having a list of monsters you can turn into instead?  Maybe a bonus to attack based on CL or something like that to make up for the lack of scaling?  That way, you can use the newer polymorph rules.
Phase Transition...  So, at level 12, I can take 12 10 ft cubes of air and transform them into a prison for whatever creatures where inside it, and those creatures start suffocating?  With no save?  I'm clearly not reading this right.

So...  Change Form and Phase Transition are...  problematic at best.  There's some potential abuse I can see on some other spells, but it seems difficult at best.  (Illusory Monster could actually be fine as an AoE will-save-or-die, since you have to be level 18 to even cast it).  The way metamagic works at the moment means that you can start casting metamagic'd versions of spells as soon as you get them, which might be problematic.

Yes! Feedback! Okay, in order:

"Cold" will be changed to "Chill." Thanks.
It would make the person able to lift him, since that is a use of strength that influences another creature. I suppose it might be a bit subjective. Any ideas to make it clearer?
Thunderbeasts are remnant-based monsters. I'll post the list of them soon, at which point I'll put a link to it there.
Hmm... maybe the bodyguard is aware of it even if you're not? Nah, I'll change it.
I'll definitely add the no-template clause. I'm less sure about the CR change, but it does make more sense.
Yeah, it's a little weird. It doesn't work on most spells, but it's worth it for Baleful Polymorph, Irresistible Dance, etc.
If you can make Persistent Hypothetical Future given how hard I made metamagic on spellforms, that's fine by me. It's an entertaining, though not entirely invincible, build.
Is it really that bad, given that the duration is 1 round in every case?
I put in Change Form because the whole point of spellforms is to give remnant casters access to more powerful spells, spells they can't make just by combining remnants and spells that people would miss in their casters. I think I'll keep it in as it is, and the GMs with a problem with it (most of them, from what I hear) can nerf it as they see fit.
On Phase Transition: yes, it can drain all the air out of a room, but really that's not much of a concern for most creatures as they'll last several minutes. I'll add a clause to say that the created solid cannot occupy or surround the space of a creature so that the prison issue doesn't happen. Phase Transition is just supposed to use a common theme to simulate the effects of lots of different lower-level spells (Fabricate, Transmute Rock to Mud, Cloudkill, etc.). It may be a bit too powerful as it is, so my quick-fix solution might just be to shift it up to level 7.

I'm glad the system as a whole doesn't have too many problems. I like it, but I don't want it to be too weak or so powerful that it overshadows remnant magic. Also, is the way you calculate the number of uses per day a bit too complicated? It's phrased oddly, but I don't have a much better way to do it or a simpler way to state it.

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #106 on: April 02, 2014, 09:46:00 AM »
For Apparent Strength...  it's weird...  I like the idea and all, but maybe just limit it to a +2 to hit and +2 to damage unless they fail a will save.  It's not a perfect representation, but it works well enough for what you wanna do.

For Illusory Monster, CR, I think, is a better measure of strength than hit dice.  It's dodgy in a lot of cases, but it's better than "a pixie and a commoner are as powerful as each other".  I'm also wondering about things like summoning high-level cleric wannabes to heal/buff, and voluntarily failing your will saves.  Not sure if that's a real problem or not though.

Reciprocate Spells is weird, but not good or bad.  I'd have to see it in play first.  Which I'm hoping we can do sometime soon.  Might weaken a few remnants if this ends up good enough.  (Essentially, at low levels, you remnant, and at high levels, you spellform and remnant with the leftovers).

If there is a way to get Persistent Hypothetical Future, then the cheese is in the method of making it persistent, so I suppose it isn't really a problem.

Didn't notice the short duration on Dead Eyes.  That just begs for extending...  might be ok still though.

I'm now half-tempted to make a homebrew Polymorph I/II/III/etc...  that uses the new polymorph rules and a summon monster style list...  But yeah...  Maybe offer an alternative to Polymorph for groups that don't like polymorph?

For Phase Transition, the prison was what broke it for me...  Fix that and we should be good.

As for the method of calculating the number of uses...  it's a tad weird, but...  I could see a formula being used instead.  (5-spell level/2) + bonus from casting mod.  Gives more uses of first level spellforms, and less of high level spellforms.  Use the same table for bonus from casting mod that wizards and the like use.  It is fine as is, if you wanna leave it like that.  But...

"Calculate how many spells of that level a sorcerer could cast per day if there charisma was equal to your remnant casting stat.  You may use that spellform once for every 2 times they can use it."  Seems shorter, at least.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #107 on: April 02, 2014, 10:58:55 PM »
C_R, all of those are good suggestions, and I think I'll implement all of them with the exception of the simpler formula for the number of spellforms per day. The one problem is that it doesn't take into account the caster's level, which is just as important as spell level in determining uses per day. The formula I decide on should incorporate that element while still being linear (to give metamagic feats effectively the same balance). Also, I think I'll lower the number of uses per day. This is supplemental, after all.

How about uses/day = (CL/2 - SL)/2, rounding up in all cases? You still get 1st level spells at 3rd level, 2nd level spells at 5th level, etc., just late enough to make them of sideline importance. Based on this formula, a 9th level character would get to use 1st-2nd level spellforms twice a day each and 3rd-4th level spellforms once each. It might seem a bit too weak, but considering they've already got the full power of a spellcasting class and that these stack with each spellform feat they get, I think it's actually perfect. What do you think?

EDIT: uses/day = (CL/2 - SL+1)/2 bumps it up to a wizard progression, so that might be preferable. On the other hand, giving 10th-level remnant casters access to just as many 5th-level spells as a wizard of their level at the cost of only a feat (if that) doesn't strike me as very fair.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 11:03:29 PM by TheGeometer »

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2014, 04:46:37 AM »
That sounds good.

If you're using all my suggestions, I'll wait to hear the alternate option for polymorph before going into that.  But other than that, we should be fine.  I'll see if I can talk my group into playtesting it at some point, but we play monthly.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2014, 05:48:32 PM »
On a completely unrelated note, based on the experience I have with playing D&D campaigns, I've decided that the ability to return to full health after every encounter is too powerful to give out with a 1-level dip. I made some calculations and changed the Health and Pain remnants accordingly. I also set a round/day limitation on the fast healing from the Health domain. At-will abilities can be pretty powerful, but healing is by far the best of them in my opinion.

As for Polymorph, if I change it, how would you suggest I balance it? Would it be enough just to change the HD restriction to an equal CR restriction?

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2014, 09:07:00 PM »
My suggestion would be to find a set of related spells from the current polymorph school.  Say...  the Dragonshape line.  Then give the player those, allowing him to use the higher ones as higher level spells.  At level 5, they can turn into a pseudodragon (as Least Dragonshape).  At level 11, they can turn into a young red dragon (as Lesser Dragonshape).  At level 17, they can turn into a mature adult dragon (as Dragonshape).  (You don't get the spellcasting for any of these forms)

I'd also give them a non-[Polymorph] spell in there, preferably one that levels kinda well.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2014, 09:28:27 AM »
I actually really like the scaling Dragonshape idea. Mind if I just use that?

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2014, 01:34:21 AM »
Go for it!  Books are Dragon Magic and Player's Handbook II.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2014, 07:33:05 PM »
A new prestige class, the Shattered Soul, is up! Remnant monsters, magic items, organizations, a supplementary base class, alternate class features, and at least 2 more prestige classes are to come soon.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #114 on: May 05, 2014, 02:00:49 AM »
And now the Warblaster is up, too! Only a few more prestige classes to go, so I'll either start writing those, or I'll shift my focus over to monsters and magic items for now.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 04:49:46 PM by TheGeometer »

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #115 on: July 11, 2014, 10:23:53 AM »
With Remnant Monsters now up, this chapter of the Book of Seven Secrets is nearing its close. Only 5 more short posts to go, and then I can move on to Spirit Magic! Start the countdown! 5!

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #116 on: July 15, 2014, 02:49:35 PM »
Only 5 more short posts to go, and then I can move on to Spirit Magic! Start the countdown! 5!
4!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 07:28:19 AM by TheGeometer »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #117 on: July 15, 2014, 07:32:59 PM »
Spellmonk looks pretty cool. Aura of Calm should clarify what the action to suppress it is, and how you resume it once suppressed (presumably the same way, but I'm a nitpicker). Creatures that are already enraged/frenzied when they enter your aura stay enraged, right?

The only potentially problematic thing I see is the Remnant Flurry and Mystic Focus. You can combine Remnant Flurry's many attacks with size increases (whether actual or effective) to still increase the damage. A Remnant Mage, Magician, or Spellknight entry has access to Enlarge, which can easily increase 2-3 size categories. I have to do the math on how it compares to just a regular flurry with a quarterstaff or something, though. Mystic Focus has the potential for tremendous burst damage at the start of a fight if you can stack it across multiple uses in the past minute. It's certainly fine if only only the greatest number of extra attacks from spare RP used in the last minute applies. I think the current wording is the former (all uses stack), but I'm not sure what your intent is.

Offline TheGeometer

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
Spellmonk looks pretty cool. Aura of Calm should clarify what the action to suppress it is, and how you resume it once suppressed (presumably the same way, but I'm a nitpicker). Creatures that are already enraged/frenzied when they enter your aura stay enraged, right?

I'll specify that it's a Swift action to suppress and resume. I don't want this ability actually eating up your actions. As for creatures already enraged, I'll clarify that they actually calm down immediately, which was what I was going for. Thanks, nitpick away.

The only potentially problematic thing I see is the Remnant Flurry and Mystic Focus. You can combine Remnant Flurry's many attacks with size increases (whether actual or effective) to still increase the damage. A Remnant Mage, Magician, or Spellknight entry has access to Enlarge, which can easily increase 2-3 size categories. I have to do the math on how it compares to just a regular flurry with a quarterstaff or something, though. Mystic Focus has the potential for tremendous burst damage at the start of a fight if you can stack it across multiple uses in the past minute. It's certainly fine if only only the greatest number of extra attacks from spare RP used in the last minute applies. I think the current wording is the former (all uses stack), but I'm not sure what your intent is.

Yikes, you're right. Will specify that every use of Mystic Focus overrides previous uses within the same minute. Still, I had considered this more of an in-battle ability when I tried to balance it, but I guess that a 1-minute duration is still plenty of time to charge up before a battle. There's got to be a way to fix it so that Spellmonks don't use the ability to add a free 10d8 damage to their first attack at level 15. Is it okay to literally write "the Valdoran Spellmonk loses the bonus attacks from any active Mystic Focus effect when she begins a new encounter"?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion
« Reply #119 on: July 17, 2014, 03:58:57 PM »
Why do you want to precharge Mystic Flurry, anyways? Why not have it apply only to your next flurry in the same turn?

If you do want it to be prechargeable, why do you want multiple in-combat rounds to stack the charging?