Author Topic: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion  (Read 32853 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2014, 09:43:25 PM »
Looking over the spell seeds... I'd suggest just getting rid of the Following Shadow entirely... The Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells and Shadowcraft Mage were bad ideas in the first place, and your classes have plenty of on-the-fly flexibility without it (IMO, of course).

One thing I am aware of (and hasn't ever really been dealt with because the Historian has dodged all playtests) is that the seeds are by and large not particularly balanced against one another. What I really need to do at some point is sit down and turn every single effect in the SRD into a seed, rather than half-assing it with ones that just grant access to certain spells. Especially when some of those seeds are quite powerful (there's one that's basically "Get most Illusion spells").
Yeah... definitely planned on getting that one... But Illusion spells are so highly DM dependent, and there aren't actually that many useful ones (I hardly ever use anything other than Silent Image coupled with Ghost Sound), that I thought that one is probably OK. Also, True Seeing >>> Illusion. :P

The shadowcraft stuff though... you can use that to conjure all kinds of real effects for your party (Mage Armor, Mount, etc), as long as they willingly fail their saves... plus you can use it for damage, summoning, etc.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2014, 10:31:25 PM »
Given how the system is designed, I'll probably drop that seed out when I do the complete rebuild. Fairly certain I can make it more efficient with a second go round.

Got ideas, just need time.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2014, 08:24:16 AM »
Got ideas, just need time.
Story of my life. :D
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2014, 08:39:43 AM »
Got ideas, just need time.
Story of my life. :D

So, my work on this front is going to appear over here. Doubt it'll be done before the Arhosa Ascending campaign starts, but it will likely appear in the middle of it.

Offline VennDygrem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4587
  • Exceptionally Average
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2014, 06:30:19 PM »
So, I'm a bit confused about the Spell Seeds system. Are the Seeds the three-component, categorical groupings, or are they the individual components in a 'seed category'?

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #105 on: June 09, 2014, 01:21:38 AM »
They're the 3 category groupings. The individual ones are referred to as Spell Seed Components, usually.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #106 on: June 16, 2014, 05:24:14 PM »
Added in an ACF that changes the Chronomancer rather heavily, and created a new line of abilities, thanks to SDK's suggestions. New material can be view here.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2014, 07:35:07 AM »
Merged the new material into the Chronomancer, and also created an ACF thread. There's now an Echocaller ACF as well.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #108 on: September 12, 2015, 02:59:54 PM »
So, just noticed (or rather, rediscovered) some material from the end of the PPF thread back over on BG, after I had left the forums. It's never been incorporated (or fixed) over here, but it was the start of Kell creating some Elven Wizardry Eras that blended together various aspects of the Historian's abilities. I'm reproducing them below, and I must say I kind of like them, although the second era is definitely in need of tuning down a touch.

Quote from: KellKheraptis
Elven Wizardry Eras

Dance of the Bespelled Blade: Long thought to be the creators of the Bladesong, the ancient Shantel Othreier elves were dual masters of sword and spell that rivalled the fabled gish of the githyanki.  Consummate scholars, the Shanteloth Elite were the heart of the kingdom's defence, archmagi in their own right, and blademasters all at the same time.
Prerequisites: Clarion Callnew, Distilled Essence
Knowledge Check: Arcana DC 26
Effect 1: The Shanteloth Elite were able to duel a swordsman to a standstill with one hand and stymie an archmage with the other.  The Historian's base attack bonus improves to Average, as a Cleric, and his Fort save improves to Good.
Effect 2: Known for unorthodox tactics, emulating that of the graceful native great cats and cooshee dogs of the forest, the Shanteloth Elite mixed sorcery with mundane weapon mastery, to devastating effect.  The Historian may use Fusillades, drawing from his spellpoint pool from attuning to the Wizardry Technique.
Penalty: Sacrificing arcane power for greater skill at arms, the Shanteloth Elite never achieved the same level of eldritch skill as their neighbours, and as such, use the table for Ancient Prayer for both spell points and seeds available.  They still may only select Wizardry seeds.

Lattice of the Quessir Tapestry: Unrivalled even by mighty Netheril, the Aryvandaar elves of the Vyshaantar Empire originated the mighty Mythals across Faerun, most of them still standing untouched and untouchable even to this day.  By weaving together strands of raw magic, the Aryvandaarin were capable of turning back even the mightiest magic, and were said to even have a counterspell for the terrible dweomer concocted by Karsus the Mad.
Prerequisites: The God Dreams, Distilled Essence, Distant Voids, The Traveler Abroad
Knowledge Check: Arcana, 32
Effect 1: The Vyshaantar Empire Royal Library was unmatched by any collection before, or since, on Toril, and rivals or surpasses that of many deities of magic and knowledge.  The Historian gains access to an additional seed for every point of Intelligence bonus, and may use these seeds freely so long as he remains attuned to this Era.  Further, they need not be exclusively or partially Wizardry seeds, so great was the scholarly nature of the Aryvandaar elves.
Effect 2: Magic comes naturally to the Aryvandaarin, to the point of being an internal force, not subject to the fickle nature of the Weave.  Even after Karsus' Folly, the Aryvandaarin were able to shape their magic, rebuilding much of Toril behind the scenes.  The Historian is able to cast spells normally even in areas where magic does not work, properly or otherwise, by spending an additional 2 power points per spell.  Further, any spell he casts that is modified by an Ancient Spell Alteration has the cost of the Alteration reduced by one, to a minimum of 1.  The exception to this is Silent, as Aryvandaarin were mostly telepathic, and thought of spoken words to be vulgar and inefficient, thus all spells are automatically Silent.
Penalty: Such power comes at the price of life, and the Aryvandaarin knew this all too well, succumbing to their own dweomers when drained by their enemies.  The Historian's Con score takes 4 points of damage that may not be removed in any way so long as he remains attuned to this Era.  The points return normally once the Historian is no longer attuned.

Also from the same time as above, Amechra pointed out that the Chronomancer could stomp the action economy into a living death and then piss on the grave. This should now be mostly corrected, as I've added "If the target is already under the effect of any Compressed Time slice, this slice fails." to all Compressed Time slices.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 03:05:49 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2015, 12:51:02 PM »
Changes made to Chronomancer/Chronomancy:

Clarified that Slices do not generate AoOs as swift or immediate actions.
Chronomancer can now recover slices in combat, as follows: Whenever a Chronomancer successfully affects an opponent with his See the Flow, Nudge the Flow, Move the Flow, Reverse the Flow, or Dam the Flow abilities, he recovers one slice of his choice. At 10th level, he recovers two slices, and at 18th level, three slices.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #110 on: June 02, 2016, 10:59:49 AM »
At least things over here have been reviewed massively already.  That should make this easier.

Where do you want me to start this time?

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #111 on: June 02, 2016, 12:07:06 PM »
Chronomancy, I think. Rules -> Base class -> Slices.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #112 on: June 02, 2016, 12:32:48 PM »
Rules look fine.


Chronomancer

See the flow needs to state what kind of action maintaining concentration is.

How does Chronological Security interact with someone else casting Time Stop?

Legends of the Aeons should say non-magical next to the word mundane, just to hammer it home.  You know how I like to be specific about things. :p  (It's not really necessary but I missed the word mundane on first read through.)

Life Span should say that you can't reduce your stats below 1 from age penalties.

Siphon age should mention that the save iDC is the same for removing the negative levels after 24 hours, and also could use some text about how if a creature is killed by the negative levels they don't become undead.

Temporal Discorporation - Normally this kind of class feature is a capstone.  Is the DC based on the damage dealt by the killing attack or all of the damage you've taken?

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2016, 09:31:15 AM »
Move action, I think. Swift actions are how he casts spells.

Time Stop cast by a hostile caster wouldn't work against him. He'd act like those are normal rounds.

Mundane is actually a defined type of treasure.

Unless you're very odd, you wouldn't - the biggest penalty is -3 from Venerable. And if someone does do that? I'm not going to stop them.

There is no save after 24 hours. They save up front. Although I should make sure it doesn't allow undead.

Killing attack only.

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4503
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2016, 10:22:08 AM »
Rules look fine.


Chronomancer

See the flow needs to state what kind of action maintaining concentration is.
Move action, I think. Swift actions are how he casts spells.

Concentration on an ongoing effect is normally a standard action, although it's only actually defined for spells with concentration duration.

How does Chronological Security interact with someone else casting Time Stop?
Time Stop cast by a hostile caster wouldn't work against him. He'd act like those are normal rounds.

Strictly speaking, Time Stop doesn't actually stop time, but rather speed it up for you to absurd amounts, like an amped up Haste. If you want Chronological Security to interact with that, you'd need to rewrite it (maybe to something like Timeless Battlefield, which lets you join in on temporal displacement).

Life Span should say that you can't reduce your stats below 1 from age penalties.
Unless you're very odd, you wouldn't - the biggest penalty is -3 from Venerable. And if someone does do that? I'm not going to stop them.

Aging adjustments are cumulative, so Venerable is actually -6 Str/Dex/Con for +3 Int/Wis/Cha.

I agree with Strat on this one. If you've got low stats, there should be some older age categories you just can't operate at.

Siphon age should mention that the save iDC is the same for removing the negative levels after 24 hours, and also could use some text about how if a creature is killed by the negative levels they don't become undead.
There is no save after 24 hours. They save up front. Although I should make sure it doesn't allow undead.

Negative levels never last more than 24 hours (except for things like anarchic/axiomatic/holy/unholy weapons held by characters of opposed alignments, since they have special rules for it). After 24 hours, the negative level goes away, and you make a save against permanently losing a character level. This is in addition to and separate from the saving throw Siphon Age has to avoid gaining negative levels in the first place.

Temporal Discorporation - Normally this kind of class feature is a capstone.  Is the DC based on the damage dealt by the killing attack or all of the damage you've taken?
Killing attack only.

Temporal Discorporation should probably be disabled for 1 day after you come back or something like that. Otherwise, unless you take a killing blow from a singular big hit (large enough to not auto-succeed on an Autohypnosis check), you can't actually die from hit point damage. Unlike Fiery Discorporation, the ability has no cost, as a skill check you don't auto-fail on a natural 1 (skill checks are also a lot easier to pump to the stratosphere than saves, although that's a separate matter), and you regain hit points (Fiery Discorporation leaves you at whatever you were at before; it just negates the hit).

Assuming that issue is fixed, Fiery Discorporation is a 5th level discipline power (available by 9th level, or 12th with the Expanded Knowledge feat for non-Kineticists), so having a slightly stronger variation on it seems reasonable to me for a 13th level class feature.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2016, 11:40:38 AM »
The only thing that I have to add is that Mundane treasure is a very obscure rule.  As I don't DM I assumed you were using the dictionary definition which would include high cost gems.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2016, 12:21:34 PM »
Concentration on an ongoing effect is normally a standard action, although it's only actually defined for spells with concentration duration.

Given the way the Chronomancer uses actions, move I think suits better - plus it's something Arhosa uses a reasonable amount (Spellsinger has a lot of move action concentration options).

Strictly speaking, Time Stop doesn't actually stop time, but rather speed it up for you to absurd amounts, like an amped up Haste. If you want Chronological Security to interact with that, you'd need to rewrite it (maybe to something like Timeless Battlefield, which lets you join in on temporal displacement).

Yeah, looks like I'll have to fiddle with the wording. The acting normally during Time Stop, etc. is the goal.

Aging adjustments are cumulative, so Venerable is actually -6 Str/Dex/Con for +3 Int/Wis/Cha.

I agree with Strat on this one. If you've got low stats, there should be some older age categories you just can't operate at.

Ugh, I knew that. Why did I skip over it? But yes, if a player wants to cripple themselves, I'm not going to stop them. They can change it later, of course.

Negative levels never last more than 24 hours (except for things like anarchic/axiomatic/holy/unholy weapons held by characters of opposed alignments, since they have special rules for it). After 24 hours, the negative level goes away, and you make a save against permanently losing a character level. This is in addition to and separate from the saving throw Siphon Age has to avoid gaining negative levels in the first place.

Oh, they'd just lose the levels right away in that case. It's only a one-save ability. I'll make note of it.

Temporal Discorporation should probably be disabled for 1 day after you come back or something like that. Otherwise, unless you take a killing blow from a singular big hit (large enough to not auto-succeed on an Autohypnosis check), you can't actually die from hit point damage. Unlike Fiery Discorporation, the ability has no cost, as a skill check you don't auto-fail on a natural 1 (skill checks are also a lot easier to pump to the stratosphere than saves, although that's a separate matter), and you regain hit points (Fiery Discorporation leaves you at whatever you were at before; it just negates the hit).

Assuming that issue is fixed, Fiery Discorporation is a 5th level discipline power (available by 9th level, or 12th with the Expanded Knowledge feat for non-Kineticists), so having a slightly stronger variation on it seems reasonable to me for a 13th level class feature.

I'll tweak it a bit so there's more of a delay and it clarifies it's only the killing blow damage that counts.

The only thing that I have to add is that Mundane treasure is a very obscure rule.  As I don't DM I assumed you were using the dictionary definition which would include high cost gems.

I'll link to it and rewrite that ability a little. Given the cost, should allow him to actually throw the tanglefoot bags and the like.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2016, 08:45:11 AM »
All changes discussed above now implemented.

Nanshork, if you're satisfied, on to slices. :D

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2016, 11:02:11 AM »
The changes to Siphon Age don't seem to have been made.

Slices

A Night Abed (forward) should mention that it also doesn't restore (or does restore) daily uses of class/racial abilities.

Prescience (forward) - you know I'm not a fan of potentially wasting actions like this. :p

Lost in Time (reverse) doesn't require a caster level check from a spellcaster if you're countering their spell?

Thee Voices of Fate (forward and reverse) - see prescience above.

Compressed Time (reverse) - can it move the target up/down?

Flicker (reverse) - see Lost in Time above.

Knowledge Through Time (forward) - can it grant spellcasting?

Lives of the Kin (forward) - do your hp change when you turn into a dragon?

Time Bandits :lmao

You should have a note somewhere about how to calculate a player's CR just for reference.


Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7678
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Past, Present, and Future Index & Discussion
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2016, 11:17:22 AM »
The changes to Siphon Age don't seem to have been made.

It has - it's no longer negative levels. They straight up lose HD/Levels.

A Night Abed (forward) should mention that it also doesn't restore (or does restore) daily uses of class/racial abilities.
Good call, I'll add.
Prescience (forward) - you know I'm not a fan of potentially wasting actions like this. :p
True, but it's only a first level ability and it's one swift action for an average (roughly) +1 bonus. Might reduce the downside to -1 though.
Lost in Time (reverse) doesn't require a caster level check from a spellcaster if you're countering their spell?
Nope. Only if it's a slicer. There are very few abilities in regular play that it can actually affect, although the big one is that it can blow apart Time Stop.
Thee Voices of Fate (forward and reverse) - see prescience above.
Already rewritten the slice once, never quite found anything satisfactory with it. Might have to try something again.
Compressed Time (reverse) - can it move the target up/down?
No, just on the same horizontal plane. I'll mention.
Flicker (reverse) - see Lost in Time above.
As lost in time.
Knowledge Through Time (forward) - can it grant spellcasting?
No, I'll grab the extra text from my Chameleon base class to make sure of that.
Lives of the Kin (forward) - do your hp change when you turn into a dragon?
It's the same as casting Polymorph on yourself, just with a limited target creature type.
Time Bandits :lmao

You should have a note somewhere about how to calculate a player's CR just for reference.

CR = ECL for characters, so it's pretty easy.