Author Topic: Ice Beast  (Read 16430 times)

Offline dman

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2017, 01:44:19 PM »
Not to complicate things but what about a simulacrum power or maybe a conversion power like the ability to give the ice beast template to other creatures?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2017, 08:52:18 PM »
Not to complicate things but what about a simulacrum power or maybe a conversion power like the ability to give the ice beast template to other creatures?

Not to complicate things but you want something complicated?  :P

I'm actually not sure how I would implement this.


Okay, first off I noticed that the extra choices for Spirit were missing.  They've been added to the main post, and the Strength choice has been removed.  In place, Wisdom of the North is now explicitly a choice for Spirit instead of being a regular Ice Power.  It's also been nerfed, +1 Wisdom at every even Ice Beast level so a max of +5 instead of +10 (on top of not being able to be gained with the class spellcasting or maneuvers).

Cleaned up the language of Frozen Faculty Furtherance: Spirit.  Spirit now causes hypothermia (same end result, fatigue/exhaustion).

Moved Ice Mastery from 5 to 6 and Frozen Faculty Finality from 10 to 9.  The progression feels smoother now.

Rime Coating gained the following ability: As a swift action the Ice Beast can cause its natural weapons to deal cold damage in addition to its normal damage.  (Per the SRD, if a weapon's damage is of two types, the damage it deals is not half one type and half another; all of it is both types. Therefore, a creature would have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the damage from such a weapon.)


Ice Power Changes
Ice Powers reduced to 1 per level.

Crystalline Camouflage no longer requires Arctic Ambusher.

Improved Arctic Ambusher added.  Burrow speed moved from Arctic Ambusher to Improved Arctic Ambusher.  Cleaned up language about vision/movement not being restricted by snow/ice by stealing the language from Thrym Hound.  Improved Arctic Ambusher also grants Spider Climb on Icy surfaces.

Improved Cold Aura added.

Crystalline Camouflage, Ice Crafter, and Rimefire Infusion are now the only Ice Powers without improved versions.




So, with all these changes I need advice on two things.  First:  Do I bump Spells/Manuevers up to full progression or leave them at 2/3 progression?  (This will impact what I do with their capstones.)  Second, the few Ice Powers with level requirements are knee-jerk reactions.  Please look at the Ice Powers and let me know if anything needs to be adjusted pre-req wise.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2017, 03:50:42 PM »
Not to complicate things but what about a simulacrum power or maybe a conversion power like the ability to give the ice beast template to other creatures?

Okay, I have an idea for this now based off of the Kaorti.  Ice Beasts can now reproduce, and the original template can be replicated.  It feels a little clunky.


Improved Ice Crafter (Su): (Requires Ice Crafter, Ice Beast 10) The Ice Beast learns to create other Ice Beasts.  During an 8 hour ritual, the Ice Beast can expend 2 uses of Ice Crafter per HD of the target on a willing or helpless creature in order to turn it into another Ice Beast. At the end of the ritual the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+ 1/2 HD+ Con mod) or be turned into ice, instantly gaining a level in Ice Beast (but it must wait for its XP to catch up before it continues leveling).

As part of this process, the Ice Beast can choose to turn the target into nothing more than a mindless automaton that follows the Ice Beast's orders.  The target's Intelligence score is reduced to 0, it loses all feats except for those that improve its attack (such as Weapon Finesse or Multiattack), it loses all skill points, and it does not gain a Frozen Faculty choice.  It also cannot be leveled up or have its Hit Dice permanently advanced in any way.  The Ice Beast can control a number of these automatons with HD equal to its own, if a new automaton would go past this limit the oldest automaton(s) melt into normal water until the HD limit is no longer surpassed.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2017, 04:35:53 PM »
Other changes made because I'm in the groove:

Freeze in Ice renamed to Improved Leeching Cold.  Duration overlapping vs stacking specified.  Staggered for one round choice removed, it felt too powerful.  Instead can affect immune creatures who get a +5 to the save.

Glacial Lance renamed to Improved Ice Lance.  No other changes made.

Ice Magic overhauled.  See spoiler.

(click to show/hide)

Improved Crystalline Camouflage created.  Turning into an inanimate object moved to that since Amorphous Disguise is a feat and we have the Extra Ice Power feat.  Improved also makes it so you can't be detected as anything but an object when disguised as an object.

Superchilled Hide renamed to Improved Frigid Touch.


I'm contemplating splitting the list in two.  Ice Powers and Improved Ice Powers.  Improved Ice Powers would replace Ice Powers on the table starting at level 6.  You could also take two Ice Powers in place of an Improved Ice Power.  I'd probably bring back the fancy names if they're two tables, as it is I was getting confused about what was what with the fancy names for Improved blah-blah whatever.


If the Improved Ice Crafter power above gets approved all powers now have an Improved version except for Rimefire Infusion which I have ideas about.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2017, 11:22:54 PM »
You know, adding flight to a monster that originically and specifically could not fly just feels wrong.

Rime Coating gained the following ability: As a swift action the Ice Beast can cause its natural weapons to deal cold damage in addition to its normal damage.  (Per the SRD, if a weapon's damage is of two types, the damage it deals is not half one type and half another; all of it is both types. Therefore, a creature would have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the damage from such a weapon.)
Problem with that is that it basically allows you to laugh at the DR of anybody with no cold resistance/immunity (and eventually even those suffer).

So, with all these changes I need advice on two things.  First:  Do I bump Spells/Manuevers up to full progression or leave them at 2/3 progression?  (This will impact what I do with their capstones.)  Second, the few Ice Powers with level requirements are knee-jerk reactions.  Please look at the Ice Powers and let me know if anything needs to be adjusted pre-req wise.
1) I would say leave them at 2/3. Between the ice powers and other goodies, full progression would basically make the Frostwind Virago obsolete.
2) Ice power requirements looks fine. It is fine. Please do not overhaul everything again.

Improved Ice Crafter (Su): (Requires Ice Crafter, Ice Beast 10) The Ice Beast learns to create other Ice Beasts.  During an 8 hour ritual, the Ice Beast can expend 2 uses of Ice Crafter per HD of the target on a willing or helpless creature in order to turn it into another Ice Beast. At the end of the ritual the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+ 1/2 HD+ Con mod) or be turned into ice, instantly gaining a level in Ice Beast (but it must wait for its XP to catch up before it continues leveling).

As part of this process, the Ice Beast can choose to turn the target into nothing more than a mindless automaton that follows the Ice Beast's orders.  The target's Intelligence score is reduced to 0, it loses all feats except for those that improve its attack (such as Weapon Finesse or Multiattack), it loses all skill points, and it does not gain a Frozen Faculty choice.  It also cannot be leveled up or have its Hit Dice permanently advanced in any way.  The Ice Beast can control a number of these automatons with HD equal to its own, if a new automaton would go past this limit the oldest automaton(s) melt into normal water until the HD limit is no longer surpassed.

I'm not a big fan of abilities that grant levels out of nowhere. Why not replace the newest level?
Also DC based on Con? :psyduck

Also "can control a number of these automatons with HD equal to its own" is pretty unclear. Can a 10 HD Ice beast control 10x10HD such minions? Or all the minion HD together can't go over 10 HD?

Improved Crystalline Camouflage created.  Turning into an inanimate object moved to that since Amorphous Disguise is a feat and we have the Extra Ice Power feat.  Improved also makes it so you can't be detected as anything but an object when disguised as an object.
That sounds kinda dickish in particular if a DM uses it. Would suggest that it only auto-negates detection if the observer is more than 10 feet away.

I'm contemplating splitting the list in two.  Ice Powers and Improved Ice Powers.  Improved Ice Powers would replace Ice Powers on the table starting at level 6.  You could also take two Ice Powers in place of an Improved Ice Power.  I'd probably bring back the fancy names if they're two tables, as it is I was getting confused about what was what with the fancy names for Improved blah-blah whatever.
No please no justfineasitis.

If the Improved Ice Crafter power above gets approved all powers now have an Improved version except for Rimefire Infusion which I have ideas about.
IT WILL NEVER END!

Can't you, maybe, just finish polishing this and then make a separate greater ice beast prc for extra higher level ideas or something? Perhaps reduce the base ice beast to 5 levels along with it.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2017, 12:39:43 AM »
You know, adding flight to a monster that originically and specifically could not fly just feels wrong.
You approved flight and now don't like it.   :lmao

Replaced with a natural attack choice in case the Ice Beast didn't start with any natural attacks and wants one.

Quote
Rime Coating gained the following ability: As a swift action the Ice Beast can cause its natural weapons to deal cold damage in addition to its normal damage.  (Per the SRD, if a weapon's damage is of two types, the damage it deals is not half one type and half another; all of it is both types. Therefore, a creature would have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the damage from such a weapon.)
Problem with that is that it basically allows you to laugh at the DR of anybody with no cold resistance/immunity (and eventually even those suffer).

I didn't think about that.   :facepalm  Removed.

Quote
So, with all these changes I need advice on two things.  First:  Do I bump Spells/Manuevers up to full progression or leave them at 2/3 progression?  (This will impact what I do with their capstones.)  Second, the few Ice Powers with level requirements are knee-jerk reactions.  Please look at the Ice Powers and let me know if anything needs to be adjusted pre-req wise.
1) I would say leave them at 2/3. Between the ice powers and other goodies, full progression would basically make the Frostwind Virago obsolete.
2) Ice power requirements looks fine. It is fine. Please do not overhaul everything again.

We've gone too far now.  Sorry.  :P

Leaving at 2/3 progression.  Body and Mind capstones changed to 1/day pick an Ice Power or a spell/maneuver and treat it as known/known+readied for 5 rounds.

Quote
Improved Ice Crafter (Su): (Requires Ice Crafter, Ice Beast 10) The Ice Beast learns to create other Ice Beasts.  During an 8 hour ritual, the Ice Beast can expend 2 uses of Ice Crafter per HD of the target on a willing or helpless creature in order to turn it into another Ice Beast. At the end of the ritual the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+ 1/2 HD+ Con mod) or be turned into ice, instantly gaining a level in Ice Beast (but it must wait for its XP to catch up before it continues leveling).

As part of this process, the Ice Beast can choose to turn the target into nothing more than a mindless automaton that follows the Ice Beast's orders.  The target's Intelligence score is reduced to 0, it loses all feats except for those that improve its attack (such as Weapon Finesse or Multiattack), it loses all skill points, and it does not gain a Frozen Faculty choice.  It also cannot be leveled up or have its Hit Dice permanently advanced in any way.  The Ice Beast can control a number of these automatons with HD equal to its own, if a new automaton would go past this limit the oldest automaton(s) melt into normal water until the HD limit is no longer surpassed.

I'm not a big fan of abilities that grant levels out of nowhere. Why not replace the newest level?
Also DC based on Con? :psyduc

Also "can control a number of these automatons with HD equal to its own" is pretty unclear. Can a 10 HD Ice beast control 10x10HD such minions? Or all the minion HD together can't go over 10 HD?

The granting levels out of nowhere is based directly off of your Kaorti.  I'm fine with replacing the newest level.  Added to the class, replaces newest level, DC changed to Wis, language cleared up (combined minion HD can't go over your own).

Quote
Improved Crystalline Camouflage created.  Turning into an inanimate object moved to that since Amorphous Disguise is a feat and we have the Extra Ice Power feat.  Improved also makes it so you can't be detected as anything but an object when disguised as an object.
That sounds kinda dickish in particular if a DM uses it. Would suggest that it only auto-negates detection if the observer is more than 10 feet away.

Added suggestion and also made it a standard action to turn into an inanimate object and back to negate being an asshole and killing everyone in a surprise round.

Quote
I'm contemplating splitting the list in two.  Ice Powers and Improved Ice Powers.  Improved Ice Powers would replace Ice Powers on the table starting at level 6.  You could also take two Ice Powers in place of an Improved Ice Power.  I'd probably bring back the fancy names if they're two tables, as it is I was getting confused about what was what with the fancy names for Improved blah-blah whatever.
No please no justfineasitis.

If the Improved Ice Crafter power above gets approved all powers now have an Improved version except for Rimefire Infusion which I have ideas about.
IT WILL NEVER END!

Can't you, maybe, just finish polishing this and then make a separate greater ice beast prc for extra higher level ideas or something? Perhaps reduce the base ice beast to 5 levels along with it.

Oh fine, leaving as is.  A prc for the prc isn't happening, but if you think that most of the Improved versions don't actually need a level requirement I'll leave them be.  That was my main concern, that I was allowing the class to be too front-loaded.


Guess what?  If you're fine with all the changes in this post, I feel obligated to make an Improved Rimefire Infusion so everything has an improved version and then it's done again because you'll hate me if it isn't.   :P  In fact, I can do that now.  Again, concerned about front loading and removing a main weakness of the class at first level.  These haven't been added to the main post.


Rimefire Infusion (Ex): The Ice Beast is made of Rimefire Ice.  As a swift action the Ice Beast can glow blue, shedding light as a torch.  In addition, for each die of cold damage the Ice Beast does with an Ice Power, it deals an additional +1 fire damage per die (this damage is applied after all other multipliers and is not multiplied on a critical hit).

Improved Rimefire Infusion (Ex): The Ice Beast loses its vulnerability to fire.  The Ice Beast now deals an additional +2 fire damage per die of cold damage (replacing the +1 from Rimefire Infusion), and this additional damage is added to all cold damage the Ice Beast does such as well a spell, maneuver, or a weapon with the Frost enchantment.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2017, 11:20:13 AM »
You know, adding flight to a monster that originically and specifically could not fly just feels wrong.
You approved flight and now don't like it.   :lmao

Replaced with a natural attack choice in case the Ice Beast didn't start with any natural attacks and wants one.
I approve a lot of things I don't like, like garlic.  :p

But natural attack looks spiffer so thank you.

The granting levels out of nowhere is based directly off of your Kaorti.  I'm fine with replacing the newest level.  Added to the class, replaces newest level, DC changed to Wis, language cleared up (combined minion HD can't go over your own).
I did the Kaorti over six years ago, not my proudest work (although it got some pretty nice 7k+views, kinda surprising for a 1lv obscure monster). :P

Quote
Improved Crystalline Camouflage created.  Turning into an inanimate object moved to that since Amorphous Disguise is a feat and we have the Extra Ice Power feat.  Improved also makes it so you can't be detected as anything but an object when disguised as an object.
That sounds kinda dickish in particular if a DM uses it. Would suggest that it only auto-negates detection if the observer is more than 10 feet away.

Added suggestion and also made it a standard action to turn into an inanimate object and back to negate being an asshole and killing everyone in a surprise round.
Cool!

Quote
I'm contemplating splitting the list in two.  Ice Powers and Improved Ice Powers.  Improved Ice Powers would replace Ice Powers on the table starting at level 6.  You could also take two Ice Powers in place of an Improved Ice Power.  I'd probably bring back the fancy names if they're two tables, as it is I was getting confused about what was what with the fancy names for Improved blah-blah whatever.
No please no justfineasitis.

If the Improved Ice Crafter power above gets approved all powers now have an Improved version except for Rimefire Infusion which I have ideas about.
IT WILL NEVER END!

Can't you, maybe, just finish polishing this and then make a separate greater ice beast prc for extra higher level ideas or something? Perhaps reduce the base ice beast to 5 levels along with it.

Oh fine, leaving as is.  A prc for the prc isn't happening, but if you think that most of the Improved versions don't actually need a level requirement I'll leave them be.  That was my main concern, that I was allowing the class to be too front-loaded.


Guess what?  If you're fine with all the changes in this post, I feel obligated to make an Improved Rimefire Infusion so everything has an improved version and then it's done again because you'll hate me if it isn't.   :P  In fact, I can do that now.  Again, concerned about front loading and removing a main weakness of the class at first level.  These haven't been added to the main post.


Rimefire Infusion (Ex): The Ice Beast is made of Rimefire Ice.  As a swift action the Ice Beast can glow blue, shedding light as a torch.  In addition, for each die of cold damage the Ice Beast does with an Ice Power, it deals an additional +1 fire damage per die (this damage is applied after all other multipliers and is not multiplied on a critical hit).

Improved Rimefire Infusion (Ex): The Ice Beast loses its vulnerability to fire.  The Ice Beast now deals an additional +2 fire damage per die of cold damage (replacing the +1 from Rimefire Infusion), and this additional damage is added to all cold damage the Ice Beast does such as well a spell, maneuver, or a weapon with the Frost enchantment.
Looks good too expect me to say it sucks in 1d12 days.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2017, 11:57:42 AM »
New Rimefire/Improved Rimefire are now in the post.  Everything has an improved.

I'm still not sure if some of the Improved options should have a level requirement, but other than fine tuning that I'm done.  I have no more inspiration, and the class has a lot more depth now but is less front-loaded and powerful as a whole.  It was worth it.  :p

Don't worry, I won't overhaul this again!

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Ice Beast
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2018, 12:55:30 AM »
I've re-arranged the Ice Powers so that the improved version of a power is directly after the regular version.  Originally it was all alphabetical with Improveds being lumped together right before the end.