Author Topic: OOC Discussion and shit  (Read 98602 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 12:07:43 PM »
Is trafficking in souls evil?  What creatures have souls?
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2012, 12:28:18 PM »
Normally, yes.

Creatures with the outsider (unless they have the native subtype), ooze, construct, plant, or unread types do not have souls.

Offline AyeGill

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2012, 12:29:39 PM »
Is trafficking in souls evil?  What creatures have souls?

What McPoyo said, and i don't believe elementals have them either.

Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2012, 12:39:58 PM »
Darn, missed one!

Also, there's plenty of other forms of currency than souls.

Semirelated: I'm strongly considering opening up social welfare in this game.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2012, 12:41:07 PM »
What sorts of currency could a fella like Ransom (not concerned with good vs evil, as long as he achieves his goals) muster?

Also, what are your social welfare goals?
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2012, 12:48:06 PM »
TThe thread I linked on the last page details some of them (souls, certain rare gems, etc).

Basically, I set up a "free" clinic funded by donations to heal all illnesses. I then use that to amass crazy amounts of prestige and "good person" points, especially with the masses, and then systematically drive all the local churches out of business as far as healing goes.

Meanwhile, I drag liquid agony from those afflicted with illness while they're asleep using spell turrets, just like I provide healing the same way.

Offline Harald

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2012, 02:34:21 PM »
There are other goods to sell in Wish Economy like souls : there is the equivalent of Liquid Pain in BoED, for the goodie two shoes, if I remember well.
"-Lady-Captain, we detect 20 hostile vessels against us,  and Erasmus Haarlock's Spear of Destiny ! What are your orders ?
-RAMMING SPEED !

final result : 6 slaughts vessels, 4 imperial frigates, 2 imperial cruisers destroyed. Haarlock sent into the warp. 0 losses. Flawless Victory.

Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2012, 02:43:22 PM »
Which you use the Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pleasure from the BoVD to harvest agony and bliss at the same time...

Offline HeadofVecna

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2012, 06:40:38 PM »
I'm fine with the wish economy. But souls as currency doesn't quite make sense to me. Souls can be easily extracted from turnip farmers, right? It seems like most transactions would at the wish level would be barter, more dangerous than big drug deals, sometimes coordinated through epic favor traders.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2012, 07:27:38 PM »
Minor quibble, it's 15k in gp value.

Also, link for those interested: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dungeonomicon_(DnD_Other)/Economicon

I also have zero preference whether we use it or not. I function in all games like the Wish Economy is active, and plan accordingly.

Minor quibble, it's unspecified.

In 3.0 Wish's list, it listed that you could make any mundane item of up to 25,000gp, and make any magic item or add to the properties of an existing magic item by a value of up to 15,000gp.

3.5 Wish, on the other hand...
Quote from: SRD Wish
Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

The value isn't given. One could suppose it to be 25,000gp because of the 1xp = 5gp thing, but it is always in the DM's hands now, because the spell doesn't say (I had one DM allow up to 50,000gp, I thought he was crazy. But he also gave us  a Deck of Many Things, so maybe he just wanted us to take things too far.)

Normally, yes.

Creatures with the outsider (unless they have the native subtype), ooze, construct, plant, or unread types do not have souls.

A) With Outsiders (and Elementals), their soul and body are specified as forming a single unit, rather than being separate. This means that they do have souls.

B) I am wondering where you came up with this list. As plant creatures can still be rezzed, as could oozes. Constructs and undead have their own version of an animating force, which is all a soul really is in D&D. So It could be argued that they have souls, just a different type of soul that isn't called a "soul" making it a semantic nomenclature argument. More to the point, Trap the Soul can affect anything, it's just that Constructs and Undead would require the version of the spell that doesn't offer a save.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 07:59:00 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2012, 07:54:09 PM »
AA combination of BoVD's list of mortals, and the raise dead spell.

And souls have value because they can be used to make stuff, or literally be eaten to gain power if an outsider.

Also, 25000 gp in value means 25000 gp, so...

Offline ariasderros

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2012, 08:13:21 PM »
AA combination of BoVD's list of mortals, and the raise dead spell.

And souls have value because they can be used to make stuff, or literally be eaten to gain power if an outsider.

Also, 25000 gp in value means 25000 gp, so...

(click to show/hide)

The problem with just stating that Wish is 25K'GP, is that those are separate bullet points on the list. While I believe that is the RAI, that's me. Ayegill is the arbiter of the rules here, so it's up to him.
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2012, 08:47:28 PM »
True

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2012, 12:59:37 AM »
Ransom's background (also posted with his char sheet in spoilers):

The Long Slow Road to Nowhere

"Come on, Ransom, keep up!  You're such a slowpoke!"

The boy, age 8, frowns in frustration as the older girl, with her longer legs, races around the corner.  His is a serious face, full of maturity beyond his years; currently his hair is dark and curly, and his eyes are a bright green that matches hers.

Ransom looks down at his legs and stumbles slightly as they lengthen in a matter of seconds -- he looks ridiculous, with stilt-like ankles emerging from pants that are suddenly too short.  Awkwardly, like a newborn colt, he scampers around the corner... and the girl is gone.

"Syrrah...?" he asks uncertainly.  "Where are you?"

"I'm right behind you, silly."  Syrrah's voice murmurs in his ear, making him jump.

The boy spins around, stumbling again and returning his legs to their usual length.  The dirt road behind him is empty.

Again, Syrrah speaks in his ear.  "Or maybe... I'm nowhere."

The boy turns in a circle, unable to pinpoint the source of the noise as the missing girl bursts into peals of shimmering laughter, which echo and fade
.

Syrrah was everything that Ransom idolized -- beautiful, rebellious, brilliant.  She would pull him away from his constant studies to enact illusionary battles, hunt fantastic illusionary creatures, and explore illusionary ruins.  She constructed worlds for them to rule as they wished, and all the while Ransom tagged along, learning and longing to be so full of life.

Then the goblins came, spurred to such a fury that the townspeople had never seen before.  Ransom's master left to aid in the defense, leaving Ransom hiding in his cellar bedroom behind heavy wards.  He didn't even hear her come in (as usual), but when the window crashed and Syrrah screamed, he steeled his resolve and snuck upstairs.

The barghest left barely a scrap of her to bury.

Years later, Ransom is sober and reserved, his face (when he chooses) lined with unusual maturity.  He keeps a locket with Syrrah's picture, and he often looks at her for guidance before attempting anything dangerous or stupid... he hears "You're such a slowpoke!" and smiles.

The seed of illusion planted by Syrrah in his mind has sprouted into full-blown mastery.  He has learned to work with shadows, and by relying on his superior knowledge of the Weave, he can best nearly any other wizard in a duel, with unparalleled versatility and strength.  However, his achievements leave him hollow.

One evening, Ransom has a brilliant idea, so crazy and reckless that he is convinced it came from his idol.  "You were right, Syrrah," he murmurs into the hot and heavy summer darkness.  "You're 'nowhere'... but soon you'll be somewhere."

For this plan, he needs a special demesne of his own, hidden away from prying eyes.  After a year of searching, he realizes that the place he wants doesn't exist, and resolves to make one for himself.  It's simple, but requires immense strength in the arcane arts, beyond what even he should be able to do.  He draws Shadow into the Ethereal plane, shapes it according to his will, and with an exhausting burst of magic, he is Nowhere.

Ransom seems to float in midair, surrounded by... nothing.  He smiles, walking across invisible ground, his magically-enhanced senses piercing the natural veil to see the shape of the land, taken shape in his mind.  He crafts more Shadow, creating seeds, and plants them, saving a particularly fertile acorn for the very center, the Middle of Nowhere.  As the invisible plants grow at his bidding, he walks the edge of his domain, expanding it outward.  Finally, he is satisfied.

The next part of his plan is so bold as to be outrageous.  Ransom has no idea if it will work, but he has always been convincing, and he believes with a fire that burns inside him, damning the rest of the world to watch while he works miracles.  He travels the Planes, finally discovering what he seeks among a race of ancient giants: a tribe of naturally invisible creatures.

Ransom dubs these agrarian folk the Nihil, and he brings them to a land just as veiled as they, where they settle in immediately -- the ground is fertile and ripe for farming, the stone beneath rich in minerals.  With Ransom's help, they begin to multiply and colonize Nowhere, planting crops and trees, and digging below the surface.

When the Nihil ask Ransom about Nowhere, how it came to be, he speaks to them of the Goddess Who Is Not.  This place is her home, though she doesn't yet know it, and the giant oak tree in the Middle is sacred to her.

At first the Nihil are baffled -- their benefactor worships a Goddess who is no Goddess? He explains that she will be: if he and the Nihil work to make this place perfect, she will have no choice but to come and reside there.

The Nihil are overcome with awe.  They have been chosen by Ransom, the Prophet Who Is Not, to prepare the way for the Goddess.  They begin to worship her, though they expect no answer, for the way is not yet ready.  When it is, the Goddess Who Is Not will come to Nowhere, where some roads lead, and she will meet the Nihil, the people of Nothing.  And she will find her home.

Meanwhile, Ransom travels the Planes, looking for any sign that his friend has returned.  He stays in close contact with the Nihil, keeping track of the progress they are making.  He cares nothing for the laws of man or god, for he is filled and sustained by this burning Idea.
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2012, 02:05:25 AM »
Wish is 25k. It seems that's the way it's intended to be read.

Also, most transactions are probably barter, but you have to realize that a commoner 1 has a CR of ½ or something like that. That's 25 gp. You'd have to cast trap the soul thousands of times to even buy small unwishable items, and at that point, it's really not different from having a gold mine in pre-wish economy, is it?

Also, that background is awesome.

Offline Harald

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2012, 07:22:31 AM »
Niiiiice.

I really, reallyneed to find a goal for my character as powerful and full of hooks as yours, gentlemen.

It's me though, or we have all already our demiplane ?
"-Lady-Captain, we detect 20 hostile vessels against us,  and Erasmus Haarlock's Spear of Destiny ! What are your orders ?
-RAMMING SPEED !

final result : 6 slaughts vessels, 4 imperial frigates, 2 imperial cruisers destroyed. Haarlock sent into the warp. 0 losses. Flawless Victory.

Offline McPoyo

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2012, 08:04:53 AM »
I don't officially have a demiplae, yet. I'm still trying to decide if I should make one, or if I should just bury mine deep within the earth and ward it to hell and back.

Edit:Also, was someone doing something with swiftblade?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 08:06:26 AM by McPoyo »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2012, 08:10:16 AM »
So here's the next question: Will Ransom be at odds with Arias's Elder Evil?  I don't think so -- especially if there's only a certain amount of divinity to go around, he'll probably be like "fuck the current gods, I want MY gods".

Also, as I said I have no idea if his plan will work (and neither does he).
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 08:12:14 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2012, 11:13:05 AM »
So here's the next question: Will Ransom be at odds with Arias's Elder Evil?  I don't think so -- especially if there's only a certain amount of divinity to go around, he'll probably be like "fuck the current gods, I want MY gods".

Also, as I said I have no idea if his plan will work (and neither does he).

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~ Are we allowed affiliations?
~ PHB p139 stated that the DM can / does put restrictions on what can be done as a free action, how many times per turn can a free action magic item be activated, such as the Gloves of Storing?
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Offline AyeGill

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Re: OOC Discussion and shit
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2012, 12:31:48 PM »
No affiliations, and what do you have in mind with Gloves of Storing, if anything specific? I'm not sure about free actions, to be honest, as long as you're not doing something that goes above and beyond what is normally considered ridiculous(what we are doing), it should be fine.

Also, I think between all your backgrounds, we have enough hooks for a decent sandbox game. So that just means we need to contrive a reason for you to meet up and work together. Any ideas? Otherwise we'll just go with "guy hired you all for fetchquest/dungeon crawl", which is a tad weak.