Author Topic: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread  (Read 27731 times)

Offline samnemath

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2012, 04:54:53 PM »
Nothing of immediate use, no. Circle Focus would be useful to increase save DCs but I will get it later. Moreover most of the feats I get, I get them before taking a level in Sublime Shaper, so they must be combat feats. I have no problem with playing a lockdown build, I just never played one before and I would like opinions on what would be more efficacious. So no need to change your character.   :)

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2012, 05:30:10 PM »
Flay, to answer your question, I'd like to stay away from Magical Artisan (Other artisan feats).  You guys are gonna be breaking WBL in halfsies anyway.
All of the artisan feats are out, or just magical? Cause if they all are, I'ma need to recalculate a lot. :D
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2012, 05:31:27 PM »
Flay, to answer your question, I'd like to stay away from Magical Artisan (Other artisan feats).  You guys are gonna be breaking WBL in halfsies anyway.
All of the artisan feats are out, or just magical? Cause if they all are, I'ma need to recalculate a lot. :D
Oh, the feats are all allowed.  What I'm not allowing is for you to take, for example, Magical Artisan (Legendary Artisan).
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2012, 06:21:17 PM »
Though the artisan feats out of ECS are [Item Creation] feats, they don't specifically grant you the ability to craft anything by virtue of the feat so I don't see that Magical Artisan would actually affect them. It's clearly for, say, Craft Wands or Craft Magic Arms and Armor.

Still need some time myself to see what to focus on. It sounds like Boz is focusing on alchemy/brewing, and Flay is focusing on blasting, with utility spread well across all of us. That leaves me with either focusing on Perplexing Essence (item buffing/debugging) or Twisted Vellum (scrolls), or trying to go for a Generalist Warcrafter which may result in spreading myself too thin.

I'll have to play around with ideas. Any suggestions?

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2012, 07:51:41 PM »
Venn hit it; since most (hahaha, most, more like all) of my craft points and gp (some gp converted to xp ...) are going into a badass suit of armor and wands, I'd be more likely taking Magical Artisan for Wands, MAYBE for craft arms/armor, though I think that's too many feats spent on pre-game/downtime.

I'm split as a half- blasty controller, and probably going into melee when needed. My d10 hp and full-plate makes it kind of odd if I didnt. Then again, I could focus item-armor buff/debuff with Perplexing Essence and minor in blasting... which might be smart. Full plate on a non-buffificer seems a little silly...

Then again, I've never really plyed around with scrolls. I have operated under the impression they were more good for spells you dont use often, so Ive never really cared for them. Could I be wrong?
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2012, 08:22:54 PM »
For affiliation, I think I'm gonna have to be Delvers Guild.  Nothing else really makes sense.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2012, 09:46:40 PM »
Though the artisan feats out of ECS are [Item Creation] feats, they don't specifically grant you the ability to craft anything by virtue of the feat so I don't see that Magical Artisan would actually affect them. It's clearly for, say, Craft Wands or Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Oh yes; but I've seen it argued (quite convincingly) that things like Legendary Artisan are used when crafting every item, and so you can get more discounts that way.  However, as long as we're in agreement that we won't be doing it (whether or not it's legal), we're all good.  Lol.

Quote
Still need some time myself to see what to focus on. It sounds like Boz is focusing on alchemy/brewing, and Flay is focusing on blasting, with utility spread well across all of us. That leaves me with either focusing on Perplexing Essence (item buffing/debugging) or Twisted Vellum (scrolls), or trying to go for a Generalist Warcrafter which may result in spreading myself too thin.

I'll have to play around with ideas. Any suggestions?
I have no advice, since this is as new to me as to everyone else, but I'll say that when I play martial adepts, I tend to focus on 2 or 3 disciplines.
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Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2012, 09:52:50 PM »
Though the artisan feats out of ECS are [Item Creation] feats, they don't specifically grant you the ability to craft anything by virtue of the feat so I don't see that Magical Artisan would actually affect them. It's clearly for, say, Craft Wands or Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Oh yes; but I've seen it argued (quite convincingly) that things like Legendary Artisan are used when crafting every item, and so you can get more discounts that way.  However, as long as we're in agreement that we won't be doing it (whether or not it's legal), we're all good.  Lol.
Yeah, if they interacted, it made me feel a little too dirty, so I decided to just avoid it and Take Legendary/Extraordinary Artisan alone. I'll keep the Magical Artisan interaction for future builds of ridiculous power, but it feels wrong.

Also I'm decided on being blasty and bashy. I might have one or two debuffs, since wewill probably have utility covered. Still cant decide between a much more expensive wand of Bulls Strength or a melee-only wand of Fist of Stone. I'm building away though. Bashy is secondary, and the thing is for melee anyway.

For affiliation, it actually is pretty simple for any of us to be Journeymen for the Dreaming Apothecary. And since I'm an arms dealer type anyway, I'm betting deals through dreams and secretivity are probably best.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 09:56:50 PM by Flay Crimsonwind »
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2012, 10:14:04 PM »
Yeah, absolutely. I'm planning on going DA as well. It just makes sense.

As for the scrolls thing, I've heard that as well. Besides the fact that casting exclusively from scrolls could get very expensive, the process in-combat is, I think, more complex as well.

Twisted Vellum definitely has some very good abilities. Lots of defense, some BFC, plus whatever scrolls you're actually using. I'm not sure about the other disciplines, but there seem to be a good chunk of maneuvers that get more powerful as you get higher in level (thanks to the ability to use higher level scrolls, and higher CL), but those either have drawbacks for more power, or are not very useful at lower levels (I'm looking at you, Binding Words!).

Still considering my options. Flay, Boz, are you both going full Warcrafter 6? What races are you going with?

@Fire: I just glanced at the team thread. Nice character name.  But I thought his name was 'Agent.' :lmao

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2012, 10:19:01 PM »
Still considering my options. Flay, Boz, are you both going full Warcrafter 6? What races are you going with?

@Fire: I just glanced at the team thread. Nice character name.  But I thought his name was 'Agent.' :lmao
+1  :lmao Well done Fire.

I'm a human Warcrafter 6, though I could be talked into something different. Just seemed right. Any reason?
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2012, 10:21:17 PM »
No, Human is good. Feats and skill points are good!

I just want to avoid stepping on any toes so we can fully test the class and see just how versatile it can be.

Offline Bozwevial

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2012, 10:31:17 PM »
Not sure about race yet, but probably going Warcrafter 5/Alchemist Savant 1.
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2012, 11:29:54 PM »
So, with spending my WBL to have you guys enchant my natural weapons, I can afford 7 enhancements divided some way among the 6 arm weapons (2x Slams, 2x Drills, 2x Spinning Blades) and the Bolter Guns.

Possible abilities are:  Warning (MiC), Eager (MiC), Brutal Surge (MiC), Sudden Stunning (DMG2), Magebane (Cmplt Arc.), Illusion Bane (MiC), Dispelling (MiC)

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2012, 02:02:10 AM »
I dont have any practice with illusionbane or brutal surge, but I've got a warning gauntlet myself, and sudden-stunning/magebane are awesome. Dispelling and eager are probably both going to be universally good things to have.

SirP:

1) Your thoughts on the MIC +50% most expensive item to combine two items into  single slot rule?

2) Your thoughts on combining two wand chambers in a single weapon?  :D

..... What? I like having my wands safe and on-hand! And this time I'm not using a double weapon..

On a general note, anyone know of a way other than boosting charisma and maxing skill points to boost craft and/or UMD checks? These will most likely be INCREDIBLY important to all of us not to fail a single roll of, if possible.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 02:33:22 AM by Flay Crimsonwind »
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Offline samnemath

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2012, 02:35:35 AM »
How much cheaper is if you enchant our weapons and equipment? 

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2012, 03:09:38 AM »
I knock off 25% from the base cost, then it's half of that. Same for xp, but you'd need to pay for the xp (which is 5 gp per 1 xp), and tack that on to the price.

For example, a +1 sword. 2000 for +1 enhancement, 300 for masterwork, and lets say 10 for the weapon. 2310 is the base cost, down to 1732.5 after reduction of the base amount, then 1/2 of that for gp and 1/25 that for xp: 866.25 gp, 69.3 xp. But we have to calculate out the xp into gp, which is a 5:1 ratio, or 346.5 gp. So the cost for one of us to craft it would be 1212.75 gp, as opposed to 1617 if you crafted it yourself.

Assuming I didnt screw anything up there...

So basically it's: [(base cost - 25%)/2] + 5*[(base cost - 25%)/25]

Oh, and I can only make scrolls, potions, wands, and magic arms/armor. I cant make wondrous items or staves or anything.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 03:11:14 AM by Flay Crimsonwind »
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Offline samnemath

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2012, 06:48:49 AM »
Thanks! Is any one of the others capable of creating Wondrous items?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2012, 07:50:26 AM »
So, with spending my WBL to have you guys enchant my natural weapons, I can afford 7 enhancements divided some way among the 6 arm weapons (2x Slams, 2x Drills, 2x Spinning Blades) and the Bolter Guns.

Possible abilities are:  Warning (MiC), Eager (MiC), Brutal Surge (MiC), Sudden Stunning (DMG2), Magebane (Cmplt Arc.), Illusion Bane (MiC), Dispelling (MiC)
  Skip Brutal Surge, you don't have a Con bonus.  Magebane is in MiC as well, by the way.  I think the rest of them are pretty awesome, though note that it might be a good idea to pick one or two things and duplicate them, having someone else pick up others, so you'll have what you want at all times.

I dont have any practice with illusionbane or brutal surge, but I've got a warning gauntlet myself, and sudden-stunning/magebane are awesome. Dispelling and eager are probably both going to be universally good things to have.

SirP:

1) Your thoughts on the MIC +50% most expensive item to combine two items into  single slot rule?
Keep it.

Quote
2) Your thoughts on combining two wand chambers in a single weapon?  :D

..... What? I like having my wands safe and on-hand! And this time I'm not using a double weapon..
Lol.  Do you carry a shield?  Or does your armor have spikes?

Quote
On a general note, anyone know of a way other than boosting charisma and maxing skill points to boost craft and/or UMD checks? These will most likely be INCREDIBLY important to all of us not to fail a single roll of, if possible.
Item Familiar FTW.


EDIT: And the quick and dirty discount from Flay is base price * .525
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2012, 08:43:41 AM »
How come it would be 30% off if I crafted it, and 47.5%  off is you crafted it?

So, with spending my WBL to have you guys enchant my natural weapons, I can afford 7 enhancements divided some way among the 6 arm weapons (2x Slams, 2x Drills, 2x Spinning Blades) and the Bolter Guns.

Possible abilities are:  Warning (MiC), Eager (MiC), Brutal Surge (MiC), Sudden Stunning (DMG2), Magebane (Cmplt Arc.), Illusion Bane (MiC), Dispelling (MiC)
  Skip Brutal Surge, you don't have a Con bonus.  Magebane is in MiC as well, by the way.  I think the rest of them are pretty awesome, though note that it might be a good idea to pick one or two things and duplicate them, having someone else pick up others, so you'll have what you want at all times.
I dont have any practice with illusionbane or brutal surge, but I've got a warning gauntlet myself, and sudden-stunning/magebane are awesome. Dispelling and eager are probably both going to be universally good things to have.

Yeah, I was figuring on having 3 different abilities doubled up on the arms, and then 1 ability on the bolter gun.  Or maybe 4 abilities - one that would be on all left arm weapons, for instance, and then the three right arm weapons would each have a different ability.


Tangent: If I have multiple Primary Natural Weapons, but my BAB would only give me one attack, do I only get 1 attack?  Or do I get 1 attack with each Primary Nat Weapon?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [Discussion] Stark Industries discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2012, 08:44:56 AM »
Nat weapons work like this: you get x amount at your highest BAB with your primary, and then all secondaries are at -5 (or less if you take feats).  Iteratives are irrelevant.

EDIT: and the difference in pricing is that Flay has a feat which reduces the base price.
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