Ink on the Mind: A Guide to Psionic Tattoos Discussion Thread

[Garryl]

Discussion thread for Ink on the Mind: A Guide to Psionic Tattoos.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Going in order:

1) Yay! New Handbook.
2) "The concept of a metapsionic cap was removed in the new edition." is not necessary because the original text doesn't mention the cap.
3) Wait, that is the original source right? Can we get a use of the  [ quote ] [ /quote ] blocks to help distinguish the original sources? I'm assuming anything not quoted is your speech rather than WotC's.
4) Also, just a little bit more formatting (italics, underlining, bolding) would help some of the blocks of text.
5) Perhaps you can just strikethrough the 3.0 attack/defense modes in the quoted source?
6) let's make a numbered list for "First, it allows one to create psionic tattoos of up to 9th-level powers, up from 3rd. Second, it allows one to create psionic tattoos enhanced with metapsionic feats (such as Extend Power and Maximize Power). Finally, it is a prerequisite for the creation of the special tattoos described in the article."
7) Let's make a chart for "3 slots for a 4th-level power, 5 slots for 5th-level, and so on, up to 13 slots for a 9th-level power"
8) Let's start adding schematics. That was really the one thing that would make the handbook visually 'readable'. For instance prior to the non-linking tatoo's just add a black rectangle with "psionic power" in it. Then for each non-linking tatoo add to the schematic. Let me know if you need help with this, but I'm pretty sure you can look at and figure out what I mean. Each tattoo should add to the schematic, even if it is silly or unoptimal. That way the reader can see how you might want to use them. Of course, they probably won't use all of them, but hey, atleast they can see how to add one back in after they removed it. Specifically:
T1,T2,T3
(F) / T1,T2,T3
(F) / IC [ T1,T2,T3 ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ T1,T2,T3 ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ R --- [T1+T2+T3] ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1+T2+T3] ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1 --- C + T2 --- C + T3 --- C] ]   or   (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^C --- [T1+T2+T3] ] depending on your recharge needs
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1 --- C --- T + T2 --- C --- T + T3 --- C --- T] ]   or   (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^C^T --- [T1+T2+T3] ] ""
Assuming you had a high enough ML: (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^A --- [T1 --- C --- T + T2 --- C --- T + T3 --- C --- T] ] or  (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- A^R^C^T -(coming off the R)- [T1+T2+T3] ] or you could the inefficient  (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [A --- T1 --- C --- T + A --- T2 --- C --- T + A --- T3 --- C --- T] ]
Replace the above's Mt with an I and you have the contingent version of three tattoos you can't manually activate.

Wow that was harder to do than I thought. No wonder no one included these before.
9) "Like basic tattoos, a psychic battery be moved off your body without fading" needs the word "can" as its verb
10) Requesting a schematic for the same raise dead tattoo. Also you might want to include a DDoor in there.
11) What about the XP cost for the revivify? Does plane shift or teleport's destination get decided upon tapping the tattoo or making it?

[Garryl]

Going in order:

1) Yay! New Handbook.

2) "The concept of a metapsionic cap was removed in the new edition." is not necessary because the original text doesn't mention the cap.

Yes it does for the Amplifier.

You cannot exceed your metapsionic cap when amplifying a tattoo. Your metapsionic cap for purposes of use with the amplifier is standard amount minus what it would have cost to manifest the power stored in the tattoo.

3) Wait, that is the original source right? Can we get a use of the  [ quote ] [ /quote ] blocks to help distinguish the original sources? I'm assuming anything not quoted is your speech rather than WotC's.
5) Perhaps you can just strikethrough the 3.0 attack/defense modes in the quoted source?

No quote blocks because I'm not quoting the original source. What's in the spoiler is my take on what the feat would be if it were updated to 3.5 psionics.

I'll change the wording a bit so it's clearer that what's in the spoiler is my unofficial conversion.

4) Also, just a little bit more formatting (italics, underlining, bolding) would help some of the blocks of text.

Certainly.

6) let's make a numbered list for "First, it allows one to create psionic tattoos of up to 9th-level powers, up from 3rd. Second, it allows one to create psionic tattoos enhanced with metapsionic feats (such as Extend Power and Maximize Power). Finally, it is a prerequisite for the creation of the special tattoos described in the article."
7) Let's make a chart for "3 slots for a 4th-level power, 5 slots for 5th-level, and so on, up to 13 slots for a 9th-level power"
9) "Like basic tattoos, a psychic battery be moved off your body without fading" needs the word "can" as its verb

Consider it done.

8) Let's start adding schematics. That was really the one thing that would make the handbook visually 'readable'. For instance prior to the non-linking tatoo's just add a black rectangle with "psionic power" in it. Then for each non-linking tatoo add to the schematic. Let me know if you need help with this, but I'm pretty sure you can look at and figure out what I mean. Each tattoo should add to the schematic, even if it is silly or unoptimal. That way the reader can see how you might want to use them. Of course, they probably won't use all of them, but hey, atleast they can see how to add one back in after they removed it. Specifically:
T1,T2,T3
(F) / T1,T2,T3
(F) / IC [ T1,T2,T3 ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ T1,T2,T3 ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ R --- [T1+T2+T3] ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1+T2+T3] ]
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1 --- C + T2 --- C + T3 --- C] ]   or   (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^C --- [T1+T2+T3] ] depending on your recharge needs
(F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [T1 --- C --- T + T2 --- C --- T + T3 --- C --- T] ]   or   (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^C^T --- [T1+T2+T3] ] ""
Assuming you had a high enough ML: (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R^A --- [T1 --- C --- T + T2 --- C --- T + T3 --- C --- T] ] or  (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- A^R^C^T -(coming off the R)- [T1+T2+T3] ] or you could the inefficient  (F) / Cb / IC [ Mt --- R --- [A --- T1 --- C --- T + A --- T2 --- C --- T + A --- T3 --- C --- T] ]
Replace the above's Mt with an I and you have the contingent version of three tattoos you can't manually activate.

Wow that was harder to do than I thought. No wonder no one included these before.

Yeah, it can get a bit complicated to make a diagram in text. Just keep your independent circuits separate and remember that everything gets linked to the psionic tattoo base (the ones that produce the actual powers) except the transducers (which attach to the capacitor), the tattoo base being either one psionic tattoo or up to three if there's a relay.

The image in the article, with one capacitor for each of the three psionic tattoos and with the mental tap attached to the relay, is technically wrong. The mental tap should be attached to the tattoo trio (or to just one of them, doesn't matter), not the relay. Using three capacitors isn't wrong, per se, but it isn't necessary; since all three psionic tattoos are linked by the relay, one capacitor can serve them all together.

Ultimately, I think trying to work things into visual schematics just complicates the issue. If you're just working with the basic concept of an independent circuit block, there isn't that much complexity. You have a psionic tattoo base (one tattoo, or up to three if there's a relay involved), plus whatever basic tattoos are linked to it. It doesn't matter what's coming from the left, right, top, or bottom, just what's linked to what.

10) Requesting a schematic for the same raise dead tattoo. Also you might want to include a DDoor in there.

DDoor is one option of many, although since decisions are made when the tattoo is created, including where you'll be teleported towards when the tattoo is actually tapped, it's probably not as reliable or effective as you think.

I also like Time Hop (keep yourself safe until hopefully after your allies finished winning the fight). PhaedrusXY mentioned Ectoplasmic Coccoon (keep yourself blocked off until you recover) in the other guide.

11) What about the XP cost for the revivify? Does plane shift or teleport's destination get decided upon tapping the tattoo or making it?

Since the xp cost of a power is paid when the tattoo is created (and factored into the market price, 5 gp per 1 xp), you needn't pay it when activating the tattoo. Consequently, you can repeatedly use tattoos of powers with xp costs without paying, assuming they're linked to a capacitor. Thus, things like psionic revivify, psychic reformation, and (for ultimate cheese) reality revision, which normally have prohibitively expensive xp costs to manifest, can be used repeatedly through psionic tattoos with only a one-time payment of xp (or gp, if buying them from another crafter).

All decisions for a power's manifestation get locked in when the tattoo is created. So, yes, the Plane Shift or Teleport's destination is decided when making it.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

A very big thanks. You've been prompt and helpful   

Yes it does for the Amplifier.

Ah I see. You might want to mention that. I simply read it as "metaspsionic costs+base+augmentations = ML max" as is normal for 3.5 psionics. I often see things the way they are supposed to be rather than the way they are.

Just keep your independent circuits separate and remember that everything gets linked to the psionic tattoo base (the ones that produce the actual powers) except the transducers (which attach to the capacitor), the tattoo base being either one psionic tattoo or up to three if there's a relay.

The image in the article, with one capacitor for each of the three psionic tattoos and with the mental tap attached to the relay, is technically wrong. The mental tap should be attached to the tattoo trio (or to just one of them, doesn't matter), not the relay. Using three capacitors isn't wrong, per se, but it isn't necessary; since all three psionic tattoos are linked by the relay, one capacitor can serve them all together.

Ultimately, I think trying to work things into visual schematics just complicates the issue. If you're just working with the basic concept of an independent circuit block, there isn't that much complexity. You have a psionic tattoo base (one tattoo, or up to three if there's a relay involved), plus whatever basic tattoos are linked to it. It doesn't matter what's coming from the left, right, top, or bottom, just what's linked to what.

I like to think of the independent circuits as "near" enough to control the other tattoos. It also fits the electrical flavor. You're "Just remember comment" is very good, and might even help players making schematics to "show" their DM. I disagree about the complication. Many people are very visual learners. Even after I get comfortable enough to write a schematic, I still reference it whenever I want to "follow" how it works. It's not a one-time thing. Put it in spoilers if you are worried about complications. I also think people will enjoy "arranging" what is to the left/right/up/down for fluff if not for aesthetics.

Since the xp cost of a power is paid when the tattoo is created (and factored into the market price, 5 gp per 1 xp), you needn't pay it when activating the tattoo. Consequently, you can repeatedly use tattoos of powers with xp costs without paying, assuming they're linked to a capacitor. Thus, things like psionic revivify, psychic reformation, and (for ultimate cheese) reality revision, which normally have prohibitively expensive xp costs to manifest, can be used repeatedly through psionic tattoos with only a one-time payment of xp (or gp, if buying them from another crafter).

All decisions for a power's manifestation get locked in when the tattoo is created. So, yes, the Plane Shift or Teleport's destination is decided when making it.

I defer to your judgement, but can you please list the RAW on why this is the case. It would also help give players a heads-up about things a DM might dislike.

Also I'll be including this guys in my incoming dump tonight. Is there anything that needs "salvaged" from the old Getting Wired handbook?

[Garryl]

Since the xp cost of a power is paid when the tattoo is created (and factored into the market price, 5 gp per 1 xp), you needn't pay it when activating the tattoo. Consequently, you can repeatedly use tattoos of powers with xp costs without paying, assuming they're linked to a capacitor. Thus, things like psionic revivify, psychic reformation, and (for ultimate cheese) reality revision, which normally have prohibitively expensive xp costs to manifest, can be used repeatedly through psionic tattoos with only a one-time payment of xp (or gp, if buying them from another crafter).

All decisions for a power's manifestation get locked in when the tattoo is created. So, yes, the Plane Shift or Teleport's destination is decided when making it.

I defer to your judgement, but can you please list the RAW on why this is the case. It would also help give players a heads-up about things a DM might dislike.

It's in both the psionic tattoo description and in the scribe tattoo feat.

The wearer doesn’t get to make any decisions about the tattoo’s effect—the manifester who scribed it has already done so.

When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power.

[Garryl]

Happy new year!

Formatting and readability should be somewhat improved. Also, I added a visual aid diagram for the auto-life circuit.

[phaedrusxy]

Nice job!

[Garryl]

I just found the Creating Psionic Tattoos section of the SRD. Also, I reread some of the other things, like in Scribe Tattoo, and I realized I missed some major things, largely because they're all in out-of-the-way places rather than where you'd expect them, in the actual description of psionic tattoos. Argh!

Here's the things I found that weren't included in the guide
- The user is the target of the tattoo's power (Creating Psionic Tattoos and Scribe Tattoo).
- The user is the manifester of the tattoo's power (Creating Psionic Tattoos only).
- Personal range powers cost double price (Creating Psionic Tattoos only). This is stupid, if only because it would be the only time in the game where personal spells/powers cost twice as much as normal. Also, since it's in the context of creating psionic tattoos, I think it's only doubling the price to craft them, which would mean the crafting price is exactly the same as the tattoo's market price in addition to paying an xp cost and needing a feat, so you're not even saving any money. Needless to say, that interpretation is blitheringly stupid. Also, the vast majority of psionic powers that can go in a self-targeting tattoo are personal range (really not many touch powers, unlike spells with are mostly touch range for buffing and healing), so really, again, stupid.

So, yeah. I'm gonna revise the guide to account for tattoos treating the user as both manifester and target, because that part makes sense and is how potions work anyways. I'm not putting the 2x cost for personal power tattoos thing in there because, as I said, it's stupid. If WotC actually wanted it to be the case, they really should have made it more obvious and explicit, not buried away, and also not self-contradictory or stupid.

Edit: And the guide is updated.

[Garryl]

Added a couple of "tricks" for using tattoos plus capacitors/transducers to fake having extra powers "known".

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Happy New Year.

Since the xp cost of a power is paid when the tattoo is created (and factored into the market price, 5 gp per 1 xp), you needn't pay it when activating the tattoo. Consequently, you can repeatedly use tattoos of powers with xp costs without paying, assuming they're linked to a capacitor. Thus, things like psionic revivify, psychic reformation, and (for ultimate cheese) reality revision, which normally have prohibitively expensive xp costs to manifest, can be used repeatedly through psionic tattoos with only a one-time payment of xp (or gp, if buying them from another crafter).

All decisions for a power's manifestation get locked in when the tattoo is created. So, yes, the Plane Shift or Teleport's destination is decided when making it.

I defer to your judgement, but can you please list the RAW on why this is the case. It would also help give players a heads-up about things a DM might dislike.

It's in both the psionic tattoo description and in the scribe tattoo feat.

The wearer doesn’t get to make any decisions about the tattoo’s effect—the manifester who scribed it has already done so.

When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power.

Wait, why is paying XP costs a choice?

Also since "The user is the manifester of the tattoo's power", wouldn't that bring along XP costs?

[Garryl]

Happy New Year.

Since the xp cost of a power is paid when the tattoo is created (and factored into the market price, 5 gp per 1 xp), you needn't pay it when activating the tattoo. Consequently, you can repeatedly use tattoos of powers with xp costs without paying, assuming they're linked to a capacitor. Thus, things like psionic revivify, psychic reformation, and (for ultimate cheese) reality revision, which normally have prohibitively expensive xp costs to manifest, can be used repeatedly through psionic tattoos with only a one-time payment of xp (or gp, if buying them from another crafter).

All decisions for a power's manifestation get locked in when the tattoo is created. So, yes, the Plane Shift or Teleport's destination is decided when making it.

I defer to your judgement, but can you please list the RAW on why this is the case. It would also help give players a heads-up about things a DM might dislike.

It's in both the psionic tattoo description and in the scribe tattoo feat.

The wearer doesn’t get to make any decisions about the tattoo’s effect—the manifester who scribed it has already done so.

When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power.

Wait, why is paying XP costs a choice?

Also since "The user is the manifester of the tattoo's power", wouldn't that bring along XP costs?

Brain fart. I though you were talking about the latter sentence of the quote, about decisions on creation. I completely skipped over the XP cost part.

As for why the XP cost isn't paid, I can't give you a solid a rules quote (there's probably something more explicit in the Rules Compendium, or maybe an FAQ, but I don't have access to either). Mostly it's the standard magic/psionic item producing a spell/power thing. The user isn't manifesting the power, he just counts as the manifester (for adjudicating the power's effects and whatnot). That tattoo itself doesn't actually manifest the power, either, it just produces its effect. The only time the power actually gets manifested is during the tattoo's creation (which, conveniently, is also when a PP/XP cost is paid).

My explanation in the guide is misleading. I've changed it to hopefully not be.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I'm going to solicit some other opinions here. I think the crux comes down to:

tattoos are normally single-use items. Casters pay for the XP cost in that case.
Expanded tattoos recharge the single use (similar to that really really broken artificer infusion)
When the tattoo is used the 2nd time, the xp cost still thinks its "satisfied" even though no other being paid additional XP.
So ... free Reality Revisions (aka Psionic wish)?

[SorO_Lost]

I'm going to solicit some other opinions here. I think the crux comes down to:

So when Plz says he's going to solicit, he just means he's PMing for my attention again

I can't access WotC's website (or the SRD) without passing using google translate as part of the annoying new set up at work. But I'm not 100% unfamiliar with the trick, like I know you can't use Reality Revision because you're capped at 7th level Powers and not 9th. But the problem is it takes falsified line of approach, "the rules don't say you need pay XP costs each time so I'm right!". 

The rules do say that when it comes to Spell Effects the prices are expected to widely vary (MiC/DMG/FAQ/RulesOfTheGame/etc) and according to the DMG an unlimited item is treated as having 100 charges, through I suppose if you skip the ability to feed pp into the recharge it'd fit for a daily limit or 50 charges. Point being, what the rules do speak of bad news if you're wanting infinite XP through this, and that bad news is the price is probably in the Epic range and you can do things faster and easier using other rules. Like Sacrifice (BoVD) or the old trick of just plain wishing for a Ring of Three Wishes, through your DM may hit you with his DMG...

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

What 7th level power cap? The handbook uses the primary source's table for 9th level tatoo powers requiring 13 tatoo slots + 1 for a capacitor which is under the 17 my memory is telling me. About the falsifiability, I'll let someone else who might agree with Garryl put together a more positivist opinion.

I'm aware of the rules of the game articles / other fluff warnings about custom effects or unlimited effects that were otherwise meant to be a limited resource. I'm not worried about abusing wish per say (it was just the example) and sacrifice xp is only available for those who are teh evilz.

Also Garryl, the source says "The total number of tattoo slots available for psionic tattoos is 17" but your handbook mentions a limit of 20. Which is it?

[Garryl]

Also Garryl, the source says "The total number of tattoo slots available for psionic tattoos is 17" but your handbook mentions a limit of 20. Which is it?

3.0e had a 17 tattoo limit (which the article was written under). The psionic tattoo limit was changed to 20 in 3.5e.

Psionic tattoos can vary in size, but a creature can wear only a total of twenty tattoos at one time—attempting to add one more than this maximum causes all previously scribed tattoos to simultaneously activate.