Author Topic: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template  (Read 5218 times)

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« on: September 28, 2015, 08:47:58 AM »
So I have created a page that enables you to sort the forms that you can acquire using wild shape based on different attributes.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20183245/site/druid/animal.html

What you see

A list of all available wild shape forms (it's incomplete - but it's useful for this testing phase). I've built an sqlite database that contains the forms and turns them into html boxes.

Each of those boxes represents a form. A form has a list of all those abilities and a total score, which is calculated based on the abilities that the form has.

Code: [Select]
score = size + speed + special + rating + attacks + str + dex + con + natural armor

size = (1 if diminutive ... 7 if gargantuan)
speed = (total ft * weight, weight = 0.9 if swim, 1.1 if burrow, 1.2 if fly, 1 otherwise)
special = 1 per special ability

Because the result of speed is somewhere in the hundreds and natural armor rarely is higher than 10, all scores are normalized before they are added to the total score, according to the popular formula:

Code: [Select]
normalized = (value - min)/(max - min)
Initially, the forms are ordered by total score.

Additionally, the set [min score, max score] is broken up into four segments; the items that belong to each segment are then assigned a color code - red, black, blue and navy (the color coding that I traditionally use).

What you can do

1. Filter forms according to their color or book. These can be combined - you may want to select only those forms that fall into the blue category from MMII for instance; to do this you just click on a blue header and then click on the 'monster manual II' book (or in reverse order - that works, too).
2. Reset a specific filter. If you want to see all the available options from monster manual II, regardless of their color code, you'll have to reset the color filter. To do this just control + click on the blue header. The same works for books.
3. Ban. If you shift + click on a color or a book then the boxes that belong to that category will be hidden. There is no reset for this kind of filter unless you refresh the page. This is useful if your DM bans a specific book, but doesn't make much sense for colors.
4. Change the order of the forms. Just click on an attribute and the forms will be automatically sorted based on that attribute. You can combine orders - e.g. order them first by speed and then by natural armor. The active order will color the appropriate attribute(s) with a grey background, so that you know which ordering is currently active.
5. Vote for a specific form by pressing the tick symbol on the top left of the box. Your vote will be kept and it will mildly influence the rating of a specific form. If the vote was successfully taken, then the tick sign will change color to black.

What I want input on

1. Is this thing useful? I'm planning to extend this to animal companions, summons and spells.
2. If anyone has problems using the page with his browser, please notify me.
3. I'm not much of a designer - do you find the design attractive? Anything that could be improved?

Finally, if anyone could help me out with data entry, as it's a slow and painful process (and my free time is limited), please send me a message.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline kitep

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 10:31:35 AM »
It's interesting, and fun to watch all the forms bounce around when you pick a new sort order.

Definitely needs hit dice though, since that's a big limit on what a druid can turn into.

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 10:48:32 AM »
It's interesting, and fun to watch all the forms bounce around when you pick a new sort order.

Definitely needs hit dice though, since that's a big limit on what a druid can turn into.

Aha! I knew that I had forgotten something! I will implement it - the HD are actually in the database but it's not binded in the template.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 07:43:56 AM »
I don't see a way to filter out the dragons either.

And it would ultimately be grand if you could filter by specific ability.   Though ctr+f does cover that.

Quite a nice idea.   :clap

Offline stanprollyright

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 10:26:20 AM »
Cool! It will be really helpful to have them all in one place.
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Offline kitep

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 12:18:18 PM »
Finally, if anyone could help me out with data entry, as it's a slow and painful process (and my free time is limited), please send me a message.

I'm surprised there isn't a database of 3.5 monsters already.  I just looked at dndtools.pw and they only seem to have 61 listed (and only about 30 in the SQLite file they released)

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 09:05:26 AM »
- Filtering by specific abilities is very troublesome - I don't think I can do it realistically.
- Filtering by type is a request that I can do however. I will implement it soon.
- I've created a google form for data entry. Anyone that wishes to help may do so. I will be responsible for transferring the data to the sqlite database and I will share it, should anyone care for it.

Form for data entry:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vUieeGNdaToJtvtIsmO56pqvh-_YaydbuNnpAavWD10/viewform

I have currently added animals from all monster manuals and some dragons from the following link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080919131238/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-404381
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline Giles the Cleric

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 03:34:26 PM »
There is one monster finder, but it doesn't allow for very complex searching (and on my machine/browser, I can't sort the results). This one has many, but not all creatures.

The other one only has 1000 creatures, but with much better search capability and respect to the OGL.

Offline eggynack

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 11:54:41 PM »
I dunno that it makes sense to use a scoring system that judges all special abilities in the same fashion makes all that much sense, though I suspect that's largely a thing of convenience. More changeable is the fact that you apparently have strength, dexterity, and constitution with the same weight, or at least I would assume that's the case, despite the fact that constitution is the clearly inferior stat of the three. Finally, as a really plausible thing that I can tell isn't present, it'd be really nice to have maneuverability of flight included. Specifically, the critical thing here is average to good, as that gives you hover, which means a lot more maneuverability options and the ability to easily summon while airborne. Your organizational system is really sexy though, I gotta say.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 12:03:08 AM by eggynack »

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 10:55:58 AM »
I dunno that it makes sense to use a scoring system that judges all special abilities in the same fashion makes all that much sense, though I suspect that's largely a thing of convenience. More changeable is the fact that you apparently have strength, dexterity, and constitution with the same weight, or at least I would assume that's the case, despite the fact that constitution is the clearly inferior stat of the three. Finally, as a really plausible thing that I can tell isn't present, it'd be really nice to have maneuverability of flight included. Specifically, the critical thing here is average to good, as that gives you hover, which means a lot more maneuverability options and the ability to easily summon while airborne. Your organizational system is really sexy though, I gotta say.

Applying weights for each attribute is easy, determining the correct ones is difficult. I will apply a *0.5 weight to con, since it only contributes to saving throws and some con-based DCs (I think).

I will try to include a 'flight maneuverability' column to the entries, you are right about hover.
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Offline eggynack

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 02:47:52 AM »
Applying weights for each attribute is easy, determining the correct ones is difficult. I will apply a *0.5 weight to con, since it only contributes to saving throws and some con-based DCs (I think).
Yeah, I'm halfway inclined to think you should split it somehow, between offensive and defensive forms, because some forms care about strength above all else while others couldn't care less. Dexterity's always good, at least. Might be worth indicating enhance wild shape based stuff too, because some of those granted abilities are ridiculous, especially on the aberration forms.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 09:25:43 AM »
A weighting system would be needed perhaps per monster since Con certainly affects some big things you want the creature to use *coughFleshrakerpoisoncough* whereas on other things it's not so important.

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2015, 12:42:46 PM »
Applying weights for each attribute is easy, determining the correct ones is difficult. I will apply a *0.5 weight to con, since it only contributes to saving throws and some con-based DCs (I think).
Yeah, I'm halfway inclined to think you should split it somehow, between offensive and defensive forms, because some forms care about strength above all else while others couldn't care less. Dexterity's always good, at least. Might be worth indicating enhance wild shape based stuff too, because some of those granted abilities are ridiculous, especially on the aberration forms.

I'm going to create two additional scores then.

1. Total score = as is.
2. Defensive score = size (< medium is better due to +AC) + speed + dexterity + constitution + natural armor + special.
3. Offensive score = size (as is - bigger is better) + attacks + strength + dexterity + special.

I'm pondering the possibility of including special abilities that can be unlocked by enhance wild shape or assume supernatural ability, possibly by providing the users a toggle button or something like that.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2015, 01:25:39 PM »
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20183245/site/druid/changelog.html

Quote
Added 'total defense' rating to the wild shape forms, which is the total of rating + dex + con + natural armor + speed + special.
Added 'total offense' rating to the wild shape forms, which is the total of rating + attacks + str + dex + size + special.
All total scores are now normalized to the following set: [0,1].
Applied a weight of 1/2 to constitution, as it just contributes to saving throws and some rare con-based ability DCs.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2015, 02:26:17 PM »
I ... REALLY like this. Do you have aberrations in there? The roper illithid is a known-powerhouse.

Have you weighted various specials? I would suggest having a total "special" category as well, since some forms you will want purely for the true seeing, etc. Also (Su)'s are harder to get than the (Ex)'s.

Offline Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Creating a druid handbook, need your input on a template
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 04:52:36 AM »
I ... REALLY like this. Do you have aberrations in there? The roper illithid is a known-powerhouse.

Have you weighted various specials? I would suggest having a total "special" category as well, since some forms you will want purely for the true seeing, etc. Also (Su)'s are harder to get than the (Ex)'s.

I'm planning to include all available wild shape forms.
Currently I'm storing each form's specials as a comma separated string, so it's a bit hard to extract and weight each one of them. Maybe I'll have to revise my schema a bit, because there are certain forms that you just want for the specials.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.