Author Topic: Warlock Information Compilation  (Read 2805 times)

Offline kitep

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Warlock Information Compilation
« on: January 31, 2012, 01:41:32 AM »
One more feat to consider for the warlock:

Supernatural Transformation (Savage Species, p39) - transforms SLA into a supernatural ability.  Which means it ignores SR and doesn't provoke AOO.  Good if your DM likes high SR creatures.  Not so hot otherwise.  Downside is SS is a 3.0 book and may not be allowed by the DM.  And other things you do with your warlock build may require your blasts to be a SLA.

Edit: oops.  The prereq is an "innate" SLA.  I don't think a class-given SLA qualifies.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:58:39 AM by kitep »

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 02:01:07 AM »
BTW, I started this thread because I think we're not supposed to post talk about the handbook in the handbook thread itself.  Can the handbook owner put a link to this discussion thread at the top of his handbook?  Is there a handbook standard for that?

Offline billking

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Re: Nightcrawler builds
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 03:45:44 AM »
Regarding the Nightcrawler build by thinblade...

1) Crinti Shadow Marauder is underrated.
[4 levels Telflammar Shadowlord + 2 or 3 levels for sneak attack]
isn't strictly superior to
[5 levels Crinti Shadow Marauder + 1 level Able Learner enabler]

And no, the class doesn't actually require you to be crinti (half-drow), you just need to get the approval of the crinti leadership... which admittedly would be nigh-impossible as a human, but nigh-impossible isn't truly impossible. Maybe you take on a quest at their behalf, or maybe your enchanter buddy just charms them all somehow. If all that doesn't work, see if you can get away with being a changeling. If you at least look like a crinti they wouldn't give you trouble, would they? I guess in the end this is DM-dependent, but to omit it as an option is kinda silly, since the 6-level Marauder option may be your min/max ideal if your DM rejects the Assassin's Stance method.

If your DM says you actually have to be crinti to take the class, then yes, Shadowlord is better. EDIT: Actually, I've been making some builds and, due to the massive feat requirements of Shadowlord and the desire to have various combat feats (Two-Weapon Fighting chain in particular), I actually think even a true Crinti Marauder is better at being Nightcrawler than a human Shadowlord. They even look like Nightcrawler to boot. Still, better to be human if you can manage it.

2) Quicken Spell-Like Ability doesn't work that way. Both suggested builds are listed having Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Flee the Scene) as a 9th-level feat. Unfortunately, this just doesn't work. On page 303 of the Monster Manual (where the feat is described; references to it in Complete Arcane point you there), the table indicates that a 4th-level ability (like Flee the Scene) requires a minimum caster level of 16 (!!!) before it can be quickened.

This means that although quickening Flee the Scene is by no means impossible, it is definitely not available until character level 18 (unless you can bonus feat it somehow on 16 or 17), and not available at all unless at least one Practiced Spellcaster feat is taken previously (unless you can limit your non-warlock levels to 6 or less, you'd need to take it TWICE). Even after all that effort, the feat limits quickened uses to 3 times per day, which can run out quick. Therefore, that aspect of the warlock Nightcrawler builds simply doesn't work as well as the author would hope.

Strangely, there is an alternate Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat in Book of Vile Darkness (which I don't have on me so correct me if I get details wrong); however, it isn't much better. Although I don't think there is a caster level requirement (good), and it seems to effect all your spell-like abilities at once (even better), it limits quickened uses to once per day per ability (bad). On the bright side, you can take it multiple times to keep upping the uses per day, if you're that dedicated. Regardless of which way you go, it's about the same result; you spend about 3 feats, you get about 3 quickened uses.

3) Ardents (Complete Psionic) do it better. Although I understand this is a response to a Warlock handbook, Nightcrawler builds are probably best carried out by psionics users. Although they'll never taste the unlimited standard-action dimension door that warlocks have, dimension hop (Complete Psionic) is a 1-power-point swift action teleportation power (which only goes 10 feet, but who cares with shadow pounce? If it really matters, you can augment it as much as you want, +5ft per 1pp), while dimension slide covers a more decent distance, costs only 5pp, and can be made into a move action for just 4pp more. Therefore, anyone at manifester level 9 or higher can spend a mere 15pp over the course of a turn to get 3 full attacks out of shadow pounce; it's easy for a 20th-level character, even with all that multiclassing, to have shadow pounce and 120+ power points, therefore allowing 8 rounds per day of full-on bamf-combo goodness. I think having near-unlimited swift action teleports trumps having truly-unlimited standard action teleports pretty much hands down, and I think the only competition for move-action teleports is Shadow Stride from ToB, so psionics pretty much wins against that, too.

Ardents are naturals here, as dimension hop is "exclusive" to the freedom mantle, while dimension slide is "only" for the conflict mantle and psychic warriors. I used quotes because any manifesting class can pick up these low-level powers if they're willing to burn a feat on Expanded Knowledge, which doesn't care about which class list the power is on.

4) Just as a side note on the Ur-Priest/Hellfire Warlock builds, the Binder dip is really kind of optional. It's not like you can't cast restoration on yourself post-combat, and keeping your effective warlock level high has its advantages too. I guess it comes down to whether you're primarily a cleric or primarily a hellfire-slinger. I'd think with access to 9th-level divine spells it would be the former, that the hellfire warlock class is taken mostly just because it's superior to actual warlock levels, and you could use the extra utility invocations.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 05:59:35 PM by billking »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 07:12:57 AM »
Drow of the Underdark page 48 has an interesting feat called Blend into Shadows that essentially allows a warlock to get Hide in Plain Sight through the Darkness invocation.  I'm guessing they didn't anticipate invocations being spell-like abilities working with it, but by RAW they do.