Min/Max Boards

Gaming Discussion => D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder => Min/Max 3.x => Topic started by: snakeman830 on November 07, 2011, 03:12:19 PM

Title: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on November 07, 2011, 03:12:19 PM
Since the old ones are Read Only...

I came across this little tidbit while building an archer for a gestalt game.  Most of us know about the Teeth of Dhalev-Nar in Tome of Magic, namely for the couple of them like Lejare that are extremely useful.  However, what we overlook is the fact that they grant spell-like abilities, which is very different from normal item functioning.  Among other things, this means a Spellthief in the party means you have unlimited uses of the teeth.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Fadier on November 07, 2011, 07:28:20 PM
Someone should make a list of the previous 2 threads so we don't start to repeat ourselves.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 04:09:06 PM
Copying over what I can from the previous threads. I will try to put all the previous material in quote boxes etc but bear with me as I try to copy over as much material as possible.

ftp://neko.sovten.ru/ADND/Dragon%20Magazine/Complete%20Dragon%20Magazine%203.5%20Feats,%20Flaws,%20and%20Fighting%20Styles.pdf (http://ftp://neko.sovten.ru/ADND/Dragon%20Magazine/Complete%20Dragon%20Magazine%203.5%20Feats,%20Flaws,%20and%20Fighting%20Styles.pdf)


Quote
Be it a favorite prestige class that is always forgotten, an amazing feat you find in Dragon Magazine, or even just a fun and silly feat in Sandstorm  Wink, we've all found these I think. You read it and your first thought is, "Oh man I have to tell somebody about this XXX..." well, this is where you tell somebody.

Why Champions of Ruin is one of my favorite books:
Best archery spells ever.
Arrowsplit turns an arrow into 1d4+1 arrows.
Shadow Arrow turns an arrow into 1d6 Str damage, no save.
Doublestrike Arrows lets every ranged attack count twice.

Thrall of Eltab PrC grants a Death Gaze as it's capstone. (20+Cha)DC Fortitude save or die, 30ft, never turns off, never become immune.

Hard to describe but Dendar the Night Serpent is one of the most intense monsters.

Kezef the Chaos Hound has perfect tracking. "...will never fail..." even across planes! He tracks by emotional scent!
Need to find somebody? Get one of these bitches.

Ever seen a (Ex) Destruction? Now you have. Ityak the Elf Eater. He even has DR 50/Epic and 40 tenaticle attacks with a 50ft range.

Dragon 357
Living Spell based PrC that gets one as a Familiar! Page 77
Feat to stack Wu Jen and Ninja levels for Ki! Page 86
Feat to stack Wildshape and Skirmish progression! Page 86
Plant Animal Companion? These issue has everything! Page 90

Dragon 316
Greater Knock? Yes! All locks within 20ft are open!

Dragon 320
Dwarves with an extra feat at level 1. Helll yesss.
Elves who lose a bunch to gain Weapon Focus for TWO of their racial proficiencies.
Gnomes who get Alertness in trade for a lot.
Halfling who get Dodge and ONE MORE FEAT for free at level 3. Must be Iron Will/Lightning Ref/Great Fort.
Humans who can trade skill points and feat for +2 to any ability score.Page 85.

Dragon 327
Option to spend more time crafting that Construct to remove Bezerk Mode.
And to add more arms.
And to add Int.
All page 72.

Dragon 329
Swarm Familiars. Nuff said. Page 98

Dragon 332
Stating out the process of turning dead dragons into boats. What can't WotC do? PAge 48
Eating Favored Enemies? There's a feat for that. Page 91 (Trophy Hunting)

Dragon 336
Variant Stunning Fists including the elusive (Ex) Dispel Magic

Dragon 342
Human Barbarian 2/Cleric 1/Fighter 2/Monk 2/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Rogue 2/Sorceorer 4/Assasin 1/Shadow Dancer 2

This is an example NPC

EDIT MORE:
Dragon 345
Barbarian PrC that grants a Size category+ at the capstone. :-) @ base size Huge

Spend XP and Gold for really powerful Psicrystal abilities. Like Swift Action regaining focus or BFC.


Dragon 350
Soulmelds that grant the Swarm type and all day Levitate!

Dragon 355
Arcane Factories. Including reducing Divination XP costs by 25% or 10% faster Construct building.
http://i49.tinypic.com/ridmp3.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/220qyo.jpg


EDIT more again:
Stuff I'm stealing from the Free DnD Handbook
Aleithian Dwarf +2 Con/+2 Int/ -4 Cha Sounds like a great wizard to me.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on November 08, 2011, 04:10:03 PM
Probably already mentioned, but Champions of Ruin is also great for Bloodfreeze Arrows.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 04:16:39 PM
Quote
Chosen of tem-et-nu: probably the best feat known to man.  I mean, seriously.  Turn/rebuke hippos.

Now, I know what you're thinking - this is totally awesome.
This guy:

Is a real life dragon.  Dangerous, but not nearly as deadly as this guy:
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_01/hippoSPL0706_468x297.jpg)

Mistling fey: tons of LA, but being able to create living spells is really fun.

The Calzone Golem.

It has uncapped "temporarily gain AC when hit with magical fire".  Get a fiery burst reserve feat, and have fun with a 100 AC minion.

Forgot where I read about this one but Ferocity of the Sanguine Rage from Dragon Magic is a great Gish spell. Round/lvl for 1/2*CL moral bonus to all damage. And if you want, you can end the spell to gain the benefits of Truestrike. Simple and strong.

On of my favorite Monk feats I never see mentioned.
RING THE GOLDEN BELL
[GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike,
Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), base
attack bonus +5.
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to 1 + your
Wisdom bonus, you may deal unarmed strike damage with
a successful ranged attack. This attack has a range increment
equal to 5 feet + 5 feet per point of Wisdom bonus. Normal
cover modifiers apply. This attack can deliver any effect your
unarmed strike can normally deliver, such as a stunning
attack due to the Stunning Fist feat.

Dragon #343, pg. 90: "Pious Extensions" articles - a series of articles giving bonus "divine" feats for the shugenja, favored soul, cleric, druid, and spirit shaman.  I like seeing feat support for the non-core options - shugenja can spend a feat to gain rebuke elementals, for example.

#327's Craft Construct options. It's a really overlooked option (due to massive XP expenditure in its creation, presumably) for PCs and one I've always loved - this just gives it a little more love that it doesn't really need, but is nice to have, especially the INT score option.

Another nice find is Rod of Animated Dead (Dragon #331, page 66). Five times/day 30-ft radius burst of "animate dead" with no material component cost - only up to 10HD per use and you don't get to control them. Just be flying or out of their reach and watch them wreak havoc - or just be fodder. Or combine with the feat that makes mindless undead ignore you and use it to assist in building an undead stronghold for cheap (24k gp for 50HD of undead/day).

Two level ninja dip can get you an (Ex) Obscuring Mist that doesn't affect you. And it's a swift action. 1+Wis times per day.

Only lasts one round though. You can spend 2 attempts to make it last 2 rounds though. Or spend a feat to make it last 2 rounds normally and adds one attempt per day.

Trick:
invisible spell obscuring mist on a character with mindsight, especially when persisted. especially considering how many high level outsiders PERMANENTLY have see invis or true seeing. pit fiend, cripple thyself!

True, but if that's the case, Mind Blank would in turn hide you from Mindsight, would it not?

Anklebite is correct. Contructs and Undead have Telepathy, therefore, Telepathy isn't Mind-Affecting.

Cerebral Blind works too.

The only things that's harder to hide from? Simultaneous Touchsight and Trans-dimensional Touchsight. Short of shutting down the caster, me and Kell tried to break it but couldn't for sure. Cerebral Blind might break it, and the flavor text supports Hellbreakers breaking it. But those are both weak cases.

There's a spell that stops it called Telepathy Block (BoED, Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 5). No Save, No SR, and can be targeted on the enemy troop itself.

So, now the ultimate sneaker is an incorporeal/ethereal God-blooded (Vecna) Beguiler (ShS) Unseelie Fey Chameleon Dark Shadow-walker Shadow Lolth-touched Mulhorandi Divine Minion "Warlock" base class/"Hellbreaker" PrC with the "Darkstalker" feat, "Wall of Gloom" invocation to evade the "Touchsight" power, and plenty of Dust of Disappearance. (Did I cover all my tracks/traces?) OneWingedAngel would argue that you can use "Silent Image" to produce the same effect, obsolescing the other spell.

In fact, the stealthiest is to not exist via Shadow Discorporation of the Telflammar Shadowlord, but that has immediate downsides...

CAr, p.136, WoG invocation - http://yfrog.com/5gcar136invocations5p
Spell Compendium > page 233 > the "Wall of Gloom" spell - http://yfrog.com/5gspc233wogp

Master of the silent sound (dragon 297).

Looks like a typical "trade four levels of spellcasting for some useless abilities" class.


The capstone ability is a 1/day spell-like ability.
It replicates any spell of 9th level or lower.  As a full round action.  With CL = character level.   

For once, I actually can appreciate the whole "Dedicating my entire career to mastering this one abilitY" schtick of a PrC.  Get a squire of legend or something, or - better idea- see if you can put this on a spellthief, steal a mistling's "conjure living spell", and make any living spell you want.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 04:26:32 PM
Quote
Dragon 321 has a barber prestige class.

So you can be a bard/barber/barbarian bearing bardiches
SCM don't care about casting time or expensive components, right? Check out Dragon 309. In the 'Spells of War' section there are some spells that all have 1 minute+ casting time and usually expensive components.

But they're awesome. 150ft Obscuring Mist, 25 target Magic Missle, 60ft Fireball, 100ft by 20ft lightning bolt, 100ft Orb of Fire, 500 creature Blur, Summon Monster II (25 TIMES CASTER LEVEL amount of creatures, Mount (25 TIMES CASTER LEVEL amount), summon a 'Cheap Keep' from Strongholder's Guide.

Here's another small fun find: Anima Mage 10 lets you cast a spell 1/day as an immediate action, stilled and silent.  So the obvious thing to do is to find spells with long casting times and apply it to that.  I like the idea of an instantaneous Control Weather, but another useful spell might be Distill Joy from the BoED, with a casting time of 24 hours.  Every day, gain a tiny bit of free crafting experience for one split-second's action.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is Apocolypse from the Sky.  Also a 24-hour casting time, but ending the world on somebody else's turn is just pure gold.

Power Crystals in Magic of Eberron. These incredible items are warforged components that can allow a psionic warforged to manifest a specific psionic power once per day, using their own power points. So they're like Rune Staffs, but only hold a single power each. They're also incredibly cheap (400 gp for a 1st level one).

Dragonlance: Holy Orders of the Stars!


The Bright Warden of Paladine is sweet! 3/5 divine casting, grants Divine Grace, and most importantly, FREE ACTION to spend a turn attempt to add Cha to saves and AC of all allies within 30ft. Lasts for Caster Level/rounds!
There is much more I will add later.

Untiring Form! You don't need to sleep for 1day/4 levels. But here is the big money...

   Creatures who cast spells are able to prepare spells and
spell slots normally even though they do not sleep. Spells
cast within the previous 8 hours still count against the total
number of spells that they can prepare, as they usually do.


Of course, you could get the same effect with the positive energy channeling feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar, and it'd last for ten minutes.

Dragon #357 > page 88 > Class Acts > Transversed Arcana > Eidetic Spellcaster > Level: 1st, "do not gain a familiar or the Scribe Scroll bonus feat", "You do not need a spell-book, either to record spells you know or to prepare known spells. You can learn spells normally, either through gaining levels in wizard or learning from other spellbooks, and you must pay all the normal costs for learning new spells (used instead in special incenses rather than inks), but you do not need to put them into a spellbook."

Vicon English Dictionary > "eidetic  [ei·det·ic || a?'det?k]
adj. pertaining to visual images (seen recently or long before) which can be recalled vividly and with great detail"

"olfactory  [ol·fac·to·ry || ɑl'fæktərɪ /ɒl'fæktrɪ]
n. sense of smell; olfactory organ
adj. related to sense of smell" (Vicon English Dictionary)

Caveat: the GM might have you require special incenses to prepare from as a fluff-prerequisite.

Wild Monk from Dragon 324
Monk with wildshaping

Trick:
The arrow spells from CoR are kinda shitty as actual spells, but they make amazing traps. Put arrowsplit into an auto-reseting trap on your bow with the trigger "when an arrow is fired from this bow'. For hilarity, make it a splitting bow. Now, whenever you make an attack, you get 10 (2 from splitting x 5 from arrowsplit). Do it with hand crossbows instead and TWF + rapid shot with them. Assuming +16 BAB, rapid shot, and full TWFing with two splitting hand crossbows of speed, you're looking at 10 attacks, each of which becomes 10, for a total of 100 attacks per round. Throw on a doublestrike trap and you can hit two targets with each attack.

Interesting build:


Glimmmerskin Halfling Dragonfire Adept 5/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1
Feats
     1st   Draconic Heitage
     3rd   Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Healing)
     6th   Draconic Breath
Invocations
     Enthralling Voice (6th level spell! for a lesser invocation!)

Can breath 12d6 breath weapons at will, at a 16+Cha DC. Best low level blasting I've seen in awhile.

I think I see what it is. Enthralling Voice is a SLA of 6th level, so you use Nosomatic Chirugeon to convert that into a Mass IMW, and then use Draconic Breath to turn that into a 12d6 breath weapon.

Dragon 315: Sha'ir
Charisma based super-prepared full caster. Casts off the sorcerer/wizard list as well as a bunch of cleric domains. Prepares spells as they are needed or wanted. Casts both arcane and divine spells RAW. Edit Ninja'd

Raptoran Sha'ir 10/ Skypledged 10
Cast all Sorcerer/Wizard, Cleric, and Druid spells whenever you feel like it.


Better yet is Sha'ir 8/Skypledged 7/Contemplative 1/Dweomerkeeper 4. All that and no-cost Wishes too!

Neat spell:
Has anyone mentioned Opalescent Glare (SpC 150) yet?

for a 6th level spell slot, permanently gain a gaze attack.

Something that I find fun, is using abilities that allow you to use knowledge skills "as if trained".

A few that come to mind are:

    Draconic Knowledge (invocation, Dragon Magic)
    Lore of the Gods (spell, Complete Champion)
    Lunatic Insight (feat, Heroes of Horror)
    Spelltouched - Breadth of Knowledge (feat, Unearthed Arcana)


(In honor of Bozwevial's avatar)... I kinda think of such a character as Dr. Who...  He knows just about everything.

Don't have Knowledge (history - ancient blah, blah, empire)?  No problem!

In a new area and need directions?  Knowledge (local - region specific) to the rescue!

I like the line from the description of the knowlegde skill in the PHB:  "With your DM's approval, you can invent new areas of knowlege."

Am I the only that finds this even remotely fun?  Can anyone else think of funky situations where a rare knowlegde would come in handy?

According to Sage Advice in Dragon #33
(apparently), elves and half-orcs do not have souls and thus cannot be resurrected. I know it's not from 3.5, but I propose this rule be considered for addition to the game.

I just found something really nice: the Maiming weapon enchantment.

Basically, whenever you critical, you roll a dice to determine your critical; a 1d4 for x2, a 1d6 for x3, and a 1d8 for a x4. Best of all, it's only a +1

Consider for a moment that Artificers have that one infusion called "Personal Weapon Augmentation, Lesser" (iirc); which grants a weapon your carrying a single +1 enchantment for minutes/level.

You can apply metamagic to infusions.

Basically, get a weapon made of Kaorti Resin, and use a Maximized Empowered PWA (Maiming); End result is a critical multiplier of 8+.5(1d8)

And if you extrapolate the table, you can combine this with Dragonsdoom (if your critical multiplier is X, then your critical multiplier is 2X-1) to get a critical range somewhere between 16 and 23! Or, you could reverse it and roll the equivalent of a d14 for the critical multiplier, but that is less nasty.

And then of course there is Crystal Weapon's Master, who can increase their critical multiplier by 1 1/2 levels of the class...

20 to 30 critical multiplier, anyone?

Of course, you would need serious tech to get the critical range wide enough to use this enough, but I'll leave that as a challenge.  Big Grin

By the way, a 20 critical multiplier is an extra 19d10 damage with a burst weapon, if you use the ones from the DMG.

Now, I'm pretty sure you can persist that 1st level infusion...

Maiming was updated in the Magic Item Compendium. It now deals (multiplier-1)*d6 extra damage on a critical hit.

Although, it reminded me of a funny little trick; namely, you can use a 3rd level spell to get a limited number of infusion types onto wands. Why? Because infusions count as spells, and that's all that Wand Modulation looks for. That and that it has no expensive components and is a level lower than the spell that is on the wand, but Metamagic Item to give the wand Heighten to 9th works quite well...

Who wants Personal Weapon Augmentation on a wand? I do!

Have to persist Wand Modulation to get good mileage, though...

Aumvar's Fragmented Phylactery Epic spell from Champions of Ruin

Lets you split your phylactery into a number of them equal to your casting modifier.
You can cast it multiple times, increasing your phylacteries by your casting modifier each time.
After a year of doing nothing but making phylacteries, you conquer your own small civilization, if you don't already have one, and make your phylacteries the local currency.  Smirk
This means that anyone trying to kill you will have to barter for/steal them all, which is especially amusing when they are paladins.
Of course you want to keep a couple hidden in various locations just in case. Or you could make your phylactery be a rock and scatter them to the ocean.

Fighter Variants out of Dragon 310. They gain a limited list of feats, different skills, and a set of special abilities to choose in the place of bonus feats. Two notably stick out: the Fencer, who, with denigrating banter, can reduce an opponent's base attack bonus; and the Pugilist, which can take shake it off to only be able to take non-lethal damage.

Anyway, upon rereading the human heritage feat...

You keep the traits held by all members of your old type.

So a necropolitan with human heritage, for example, would keep undead traits (including the d12 HD, negative energy healing and immunity to mind-effecting), but be humanoid.  I believe that would technically make you heal from both positive and negative energy, since negative energy healing is a trait, but positive energy damage is done on a spell-by-spell basis.

Pretty cool, actually, though you have to pick up the template at first level.

I just noticed you could technically use Insane Defiance by targeting yourself with a mind-affecting ability just to apply a -4 penalty to somebody's save, if you really have to. It's not great, particularly once immunity to mind-affecting effects becomes ubiquitous, since it deals a point of Wis damage and takes an immediate action, but it's a nice little (probably unintended) benefit to the feat.

There's a power in Dragon Magic called gemstone breath that grants you an honest-to-goodness breath weapon, usable once every two rounds.

Since it's an actual breath weapon AND a psionic power, both metapsionics and breath weapon feats work on it.

I'm making a build for this character based partly on this fact.


Note that psionic powers are all by defintion psilikes.  Transparency makes psilikes into spell-likes.

So stick mortalbane onto that.


I'm surprised I haven't seen more about the Krinth (Champions of ruin)
LA+0, +2 con, -2 cha, immune to being shaken (tossing out most fear stacking), misc pointless benefits, and a single racial feat can make your familiar incorporeal (albeit with the hindrance that it has to stay within 30' of you).

More importantly, since the feat only gives you the ability to summon an incorporeal familiar (and explicitly doesn't change the state of your current familiar), a changeling with racial emulation could take the feat, summon something, and then switch to a different race while keeping their ghostly bird or whathaveyou

I know it's not a *new* find, but psianimate dead from Hyperconscious is an awesome power. The undead you make keep all of their Ex and natural abilities (though not class abilities), and they keep all of their ability scores except Con.

So if your party mates die, just psianimate them and have them walk themselves back to a cleric. If they die again, just psianimate 'em again.

Especially useful for thrallherds with a few stygian powers.


From Kingdom's of kalamar:
Child of the Earth    - Con bonus to saves, 1st level only feat
loyalty's reward    - gets or grants CUSTOM feat if leader or follower

I really like Loyalty's reward.  Thinking about making a "leader" type.

David

EDIT:  A Few more:

    Reserves of Strength, Dragonlance Campaign Setting, p87 - Lets you add +1 to +3 to CL, exceeding spell caps.  Does 1 - 5D6 damage or stuns for 1 - 3 rounds
    Transfer Essense - 5th level spell - - dragonlance, tower of high sorcerery - steal someone's CLs - use for long-term buffs
    Arcane Staff (Lesser/normal/greater) - 3rd/5th/7th level spell - dragonlance, tower of high sorcerery - store spells (from ability modifier to ability modifier + caster level) in levels of spells, up to 2nd level (or 4th/6th level)

A feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar:
Expert Tactician (that's the name, iirc): If your opponent is flatfooted at the end of your Full Attack, you get one free special combat action (trip, bull-rush, or the like). Kalamar has a special action, push: Strength vs. Balance check, if the opponent loses they are flatfooted.

Also, Vashars and Jerren can both get into Fiend of Possession with a single feat (Otherworldly). They are, I believe, the only humanoids with the Evil subtype.

(I'm posting the second out of memory, so...)

The Primary Contact feat (from Cityscape) grants you +1 skill rank above and beyond normal.

This is useful for entering PrCs early and qualifying for feats as well. Not much else, but still.\


Power surge and reserve feats. Not gamebreaking but it offers some variety.
Power surge and breath weapon. (But metabreath feats and spells already exist)
Any other suitable supernatural attacks that qualify?

Feat:

POWER SURGE [GENERAL]
You focus an additional burst of energy on one supernatural
special attack you possess, improving its potency at the cost
of decreased capacity.
Prerequisite: A supernatural special attack that you can
use at least three times per day.
Benefit: Choose one supernatural special attack that you
can use three or more times per day. You may apply any one
of the following improvements to that ability.
• Increase the save DC to resist the effect by +1.
• Increase the damage dealt by the effect by +1 per die.
• Increase the duration of the effect by 50% (not
applicable to any effect with an instantaneous
duration).
After using this feat, you must wait to use the
supernatural special attack for 1 round. If you must normally
wait to use the supernatural special attack, you must wait 1
round in addition to the normal period you would wait to use
the ability again.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time
you take this feat, it applies to a different supernatural special
attack.
Suggested Class/Race: Beholder
Dragon Magazine #: 313 (Eye Wares – Potent Powers of
the Beholders)


If in your game you can gain divine ranks by killing a deity or if you simple want to kill a god just for the hell of it,then Erbin is your choice....
He comes from the Deities and Demigods Web enchancment....
Ove version of him is a Rogue1/Fighter1 divine rank 1 demigod....
And he only has 30 hit points.......
He is even weaker than Imhotep....

I just found this in the link posted last page...

Feat:

CORRUPT SUMMONING [VILE]
Your summoned creatures become twisted and evil.
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment
Summoning, evil alignment.
Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell
gains the evil subtype, and creatures that are not already evil
in alignment become evil.
Dragon Magazine #: 347 (Princes of Elemental Evil – The
Archomentals)

How can we learn this as Malconvoker?

Dragonfire Strike, also known as "+1 damage per die of Sneak Attack thanks to that feat."

Also, Power Surge+Supernatural Spell=WIN!

Or, if you go epic, grab it for Cosmic Connection (Cosmic Descryer), and have some fun!

Another fun item is that contract from Complete (Arcane/Mage, can't remember): a reusable contract that causes anyone who backs out of their end of the arrangement to become blind, deaf, and mute.

It's cheap, and if you can't think of a way to abuse that, you need help...

One of the things I recently found in a dragon is the Dueling cloak.
Counts as light armor, wears like a shield, enchants like a cloak, can be wielding as weapon.
So for a bard its something that gives them no ASF as it counts as light armor.

I've got a book of feats as well, that give over a hundred different feats. Been trying to figure out how to actually use the infernal feats to make a comprehensive build.

Do you like buffs? Untyped bonuses to physical stats (+4)? Along with stuff like natural natural armor +6 (before enhancement), climb speed, and more? Duration day/level?

Say hello to Spider Curse (Spell Compendium).

Fun monster:

Everyone, I believe I found one of the strongest low HD undead to have join your undead army.

The Time Wight!

It's from the old Monster Mayhem articles on the Wizards site, and it has a couple of fun abilities...

-Haste and Slow 3/day each at CL 5
-1/week 35% chance to summon another Time Wight for 1 hour; summoned wight is allied to the summoner, and can't use his own summon ability.
-Constitution Drain and Spawn Making; Fort save 15 or lose 1d4 constitution.

Why are they so good for the low level Undead master?
They are a 5-HD undead that can haste themselves and slow your enemies, giving them advantage; they have a 7 out of 20 chance to summon another one, giving you even more of them for free, and the summoned ones still have the Constitution Drain, Spawn Making, and spell-likes!

Another fun creature is the Gravbeast, because who can say no to a creature that gets 6 claw attacks on a full attack, all of which have their damage doubled, free tripping as a Huge sized creature (they are large sized, by the way) whenever they hit with a claw attack on a pounce as a free action? Or how about the ability to cast a weaker version of Reverse Gravity every 2d4+2 rounds? Or the fact that it can give itself a 50% miss chance against all non-ray ranged attacks for 6 rounds? And all the other nifty abilities that make this creature an awesome special mount for a Paladin of Tyranny.

Then there are the Transmutation spells from the Pets of Any Stripe Random Encounters articles; the first, Mind of a Beast, is a 4th level spell that replaces the mind of the target with that of an animal. You can apply Permanency; even funnier is its 7th level version, Mind of Another, which allows you to replace the mind of a creature with the mind of any of the following: aberration, animal, beast, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin. It can also be permanencied, and the prank potential is endless; I mean, is there anything funnier/more cruel than replacing the mind of the Paladin with that of the Tarrasque?

Monster Mayhem - Time Wight (3.0), Gravbeast (3.5)
Mind of a Beast/Another (3.0)

While we're at it, Alter Self/Polymorph into a Void subtype creature is like a poor man's souped up Superior Invisibility.

Another nice find is Rod of Animated Dead (Dragon #331, page 66). Five times/day 30-ft radius burst of "animate dead" with no material component cost - only up to 10HD per use and you don't get to control them. Just be flying or out of their reach and watch them wreak havoc - or just be fodder. Or combine with the feat that makes mindless undead ignore you and use it to assist in building an undead stronghold for cheap (24k gp for 50HD of undead/day).

There's also animating door (Shinning South 56).  It's only for 1d6+4 rounds, but it's unlimited use.  It doesn't even require an action, you just need to arrange for corpses to move through the door.


Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Quote
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020130a

Lingering Breath: If you decide to use it, your breath weapon 'lasts' another turn, so on your turn it does half its normal damage in the same area. SEEMS decent for a dragonfire adept. I wonder if Entangling Breath is pumped by it. It says "Each use of your breath weapon lingers until the creature's next turn, and those entering or staying within the area of effect on the second round may take damage (see below). Those using Lingering Breath must decide before breathing that they are using the feat, otherwise the breath weapon acts as normal. Damage done in the second round is reduced by half." I think that supports additional effects of the breath weapon going off again. Hello Gestalt Two-Headed Half-Dragon||DFA!

Note: It is 3.0, but I really doubt there's any errata for it, and it works fine in 3.5

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20021218a

Binding Chain of Fate: The ultimate lockdown? (With Will Negates  Big Eyes )


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20031231a

Muritho's Randomscatter: If it weren't 1 round/level, it actually seems like a decent defensive buff at low level.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040128a

Gaze Screen: Troll some Beholders, Basilisks, etc.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20041215a

Nybor's Joyful Voyage: Just a fun trolling spell. Even the name says "U mad?"

Theller's Argauneau is a third level spell that lets you recover a spell slot of any level every time you cast it. The only problem is that it requires you to sacrifice a red dragon egg. Now you just need some way to get red dragon eggs (summoning perhaps), a dimensional pocket to store them in, and an item of it at will.
Also, you should totally bind an efreeti to get a rod with that spell in it.

Wait, but that egg is a material component.  So, if you make it a Spell Like Ability, you can cast it without worrying whatsoever about those eggs.  Nice!

JaronK

Then we get into that silly area about how long the eggs last. Or if a Red DWK can use it's own eggs.

either way, Quintessence will make it last a long time.


Just found an AMAZING feat in Fiendish Codex 2: Divine Defiance.  If you have Dispel Magic memorized (or the spell being cast), you can spend a Turn/Rebuke attempt as an immediate action to counter any spell or spell like ability being cast.  You have to make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell successfully when you do this. 

Is it just me, or is this a genuine caster killer feat? Combo it with Tenebrous as a Binder and now you can shut down casters rather decisively (since generally taking out their first spell really screws them).

This makes the old Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5/Tainted Sorcerer 1 build that much more crazy.  The Cleric version ain't half bad either.

JaronK

A Ring of Spellbattle (MiC) is already an amazing item, and combos great with this feat.  It lets you counter (or redirect!) one more spell per day, automatically informs you of all casting within 60 feet, and gives you a free Spellcraft check to ID the spell being cast (meaning you effectively get two chances when using Dispel Magic).  As long as you can win at the spellcraft check, this will really shut down casters cold.

Plus, lots of higher level enemies like to start a fight by running up and using a single really nasty Sp ability.  Shutting down that one opening shot means a virtually guaranteed victory.

JaronK


Ring of Force Armor (MiC).
+5 armor bonus to ac (works vs incorporeal), deals 1d4 force each time you are hit by melee, and augments your own natural attacks (well unarmed attacks) with +1d4 force damage as well as basically Ghost Touch. Circumstantially useful, but it is a nice way to buff your Animal Companion (or pet monk) if you are questing against some shady undead.

Speaking of monk-like stuff. Flaming Fists is a 300gp potion printed somewhere that gives you flaming fists (+1d6 fire) for thirty rounds. If I recall right theres capsules to drin potions as a swift action printed somewhere. Heck of a lot better than buying a +1 Flaming Necklage Of Natural Weapons. Plus you never know when setting part of your body on fire could be handy. I give this one my full recommendation, if nothing else it can be a great practical joke to light the king's hands on fire at the end-of-adventure banquet in your honor and watch him burn the place down trying to put them out.


The Sibiex from FC1 is an outsider that can be summoned with Greater Planar Binding.  It has the ability to, 3/day, provide any fiendish grafts you want... explicitly free of charge.  It even specifically wants to do this for you.  You pretty much have to be evil to want these grafts, but some are quite nice, and all are permanent.  Consider such gems as the Charming Eye (you can see without penalty in all darkness, even magical darkness, no range limit... and you get a low DC charming gaze that'll be hilarious if someone rolls a 1 when trying to hit you), Membranous Wings that give cold and fire resistance 10 along with a flight speed, and a Frightening Eye that gives permanent See Invisibility along with a low DC fear gaze.

If you can Planar Bind one and you're evil, this is a complete no brainer.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 04:48:19 PM
Im holding at the end of page 23 if anyone else would like to pick up where i left off. I will continue copying more later.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Unbeliever on November 08, 2011, 05:39:07 PM
I appreciate bringing the stuff over here, but I think we need some formatting to make it easier to read.  I'd probably suggest bolding each trick or fun find, and then having the explanation underneath it.  Like: 

Awesome Trick of Awesomeness
Requires: some stuff here, like that book you've never looked at. 
Trick Description


@Nosomatic Chirugeon-powered Breath Weapon
Do people think you could use metabreath feats on it?  How would that even work given that it doesn't have a recharge time?  Also, any additional ways to buff it or scale it up?  Besides the obvious get higher level invocations thing. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 08, 2011, 07:24:28 PM
Most definitely, I had figured formatting could wait until after the transfer though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Shadowhunter on November 08, 2011, 08:06:55 PM
Thanks to Piggy Knowles I found this interesting 1st level spell:

Quote
Fengut
Illusion (Phantasm) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Fengut causes the victim's stomach to suddenly feel full and burbling with foul swamp mud. The rancid taste of rotting vegetation rises into the victim's throat and mouth, and his breath reeks of damp, rotting matter that is deep in the throes of putrefaction. The combined smell and taste is horribly nauseating to the victim, who becomes nauseated for the duration of the spell's effect. A nauseated creature cannot attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else that requires attention. The only action a nauseated creature can take is a single move action each round.

I dare say that's a good 1st level spell. Probably not for everyday use, much like Power Word: Pain.
But it sure looks good for its level to me.

Source:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030706a
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 09, 2011, 02:58:13 AM
Quote
Déjà Vu
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level:    Psion/wilder 1
Display:    Mental
Manifesting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target:    One creature
Duration:    1 round
Saving Throw:    Will negates
Power Resistance:    Yes
Power Points:    1

Your mental impulse forces the subject to repeat the actions it took on its previous turn. If the situation has changed in such a way that the subject can’t take the same actions again (if its foe is dead, or the subject has run out of power points, and so on), the subject stands still and takes no actions for 1 round. In any event, the subject can still defend itself, and it retains its Dexterity bonus to AC even if it stands still.
Augment

For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

Very handy to have, if situational.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: telehax on November 09, 2011, 03:53:20 AM
Quote
Déjà Vu
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level:    Psion/wilder 1
Display:    Mental
Manifesting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target:    One creature
Duration:    1 round
Saving Throw:    Will negates
Power Resistance:    Yes
Power Points:    1

Your mental impulse forces the subject to repeat the actions it took on its previous turn. If the situation has changed in such a way that the subject can’t take the same actions again (if its foe is dead, or the subject has run out of power points, and so on), the subject stands still and takes no actions for 1 round. In any event, the subject can still defend itself, and it retains its Dexterity bonus to AC even if it stands still.
Augment

For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

Very handy to have, if situational.

Depending on interpretation, you can cast it on people who've just spent their previous turn moving in to hit you. Then their next turn would be moving the same distance in the same direction, meaning they'd have to spend another turn after that trying to get back in position.

Of course, if your DM interprets the action as "moving close enough to attack X" instead of "moving Xft in Y direction" then this doesn't work.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 11, 2011, 12:40:38 PM
Quote
Aquatic race
So in Monsters of Faerun there is an aquatic humanoid race called the Shalarin (pg. 76).  The PGtF web enhancement / monster update booklet says these guys are +0 LA.  It also gives them racial stat mods of +4 STR & DEX, +0 to everything else.  Wow, not too shabby for a +0 LA race.

But too bad they're aquatic and can't breath on dry land.  Oh wait, why not use the Amphibious template.  -2 DEX for air breathing is a pretty good deal.  So now you have +4 STR & +2 DEX on a +0 LA humanoid.

Throw on Dragonborn and now you've got +4 STR & +2 CON, can breath air or underwater just fine.

I'll take this guy over a Dragonborn Water Orc any day.  And chances are, if you have a DM that would actually let you use a Dragonborn Water Orc, he'll probably let you use a Dragonborn Shalarin.

Metaconcert
Also going to post this later in the Psionic Tricks section, showing once and for all that metaconcert is up there with greater metamorphosis.  I call it the Arcane Crescendo.

First we need a set of psionic powers to use our pp on.  The Shards of Leadership trick supplies this nicely, letting any character capable of acquiring a psicrystal ultimately snag every power in existence.  That said, we have no pp as of yet, save the 1-20 from either race or feat(s).  Enter mental pinnacle.  We now have an assload, particularly with a high CL, and at ML equal to our CL.  Now remember how we have all those powers?  Manifest metaconcert, and if you don't wish to conduct it, pawn it off on your shiny pet rock.  Congrats, you now have a massive reserve of powers known and power points disassociated with you, but no spells so long as mental pinnacle persists.  Well, dismiss it.  Remember, your power points are now in the metaconcert, so you have none to lose from ditching the spell (0pp-0pp=0pp).  End result?  All the goodness of psionic buffing and action rape on the chassis of a Wizard, without having the dicey mechanics and arguments involved with a Spell to Power Erudite, and better capability to optimize both sides, especially given that your only limitation to manifesting absurdly powerful powers is your CL, and there are a million and one ways to augment that.

Thoughts?

EDIT : Oh, and ensure the metaconcert is capable of using bestow power, as even unaugmented, once you have those 2 pp back from it after dismissing mental pinnacle, you regain ability to achieve psionic focus, allowing the full breadth of action abuse.

Free Sp abilities
One fun find is Extract Gift from Fiendish Codex 1.  Mostly it's worthless... it lets you gain enhancement bonuses to stats or competence bonuses to skills permanently, but the material costs are equivalent to just purchasing an item that gives those bonuses anyway and yet you have to pay exp as though you're crafting them while having to deal with Planar Bound demons at the same time... and the bonuses are capped by caster level.  But where it gets amazing is that you can use it with a Spell Stitched creature as an Sp ability, which makes it free.  Now Planar Bind some demons and get permanent bonuses... much better.  Note that you'll need a high HD undead to do this on, to get sufficient caster level.

JaronK

Exotic weapon
Fukimi-Bari, from Oriental Adventures and Arms and Equipment guide. They only have a range increment of 10 feet, deal 1 damage, and are exotic, but their description says they can be fired up to 3 at a time. There's no written limit to the amount of needles you can have in your mouth.

If 'up to three at once' applies to any attack action, and they are enchanted as ammunition, then sign me up for some +1 spell storing fukimi-bari. Rapid-Shotting and a high BaB means a lot of attacks, to the point that it may be profitable for an Artificer to pick up proficiency. Spell-storing!!!

Greater Teleport at will
Holy Transformation (SpC, pg. 116) gives you the [Archon] subtype.  The subtype indicates you can use Greater Teleport at will as a (Su) ability.  The spell is personal range, thus easily persistable.

extra dmg and bonus to hit
Speaking of undeath, I just noticed that Greater Divine Surge from ToB allows you to take up to your initiator level in con damage to do 6d8+2d8 per point and get +1 to hit per point.  Nothing stops you from being immune to this damage, so a 15th level Necropolitan Crusader can use this maneuver for +15 to hit and +36d8 damage.  Sadly it's a full round action that leaves you flat footed afterwords, but that's still impressive and a great way to finish off an enemy.  Add in Bloodline abuse for even more damage.

JaronK

Extra spell slot
The Extra Spell/Slot feats only specify that the spell/slot be below the highest level you can CAST. It never adds the note, "to the spells known/spells per day of the class that has the highest level of spell castable."

So, what does this mean? It means that you can essentially add one spell/slot to any one of your classes.

I want you to say hello to Ur-Priest as a source for early high-level spells on any list.

And there is always the fact that it says the highest LEVEL spell you can cast, so a Chameleon with some form of crazy Heightening could get a really high level spell/slot added to their focus.

I noticed this while trying to figure out a way to get the Arcane Recharge trick pre-11th level.

Interesting domain spell list
The Darkness Domain from Spell Compendium has some unique spell choices:

Blacklight (lvl 3): while wizard's get this, it's an Evocation spell, which is commonly banned. The ability to produce an area of darkness that only you can see through is super fun. Combined with Ebon Eyes, your allies can see through the dark too. Proceed to stomp the enemy, as they flounder blindly.

Armor of Darkness (lvl 4): Nice deflection bonus to AC among other benefits. +4 at first, and up to +8. Too bad it isn't easily persisted (range touch)

Darkbolt (lvl 5): Launch up to 7 bolts (CL/2 max 7) at living targets within a 60' radius (with a ranged touch atk). The damage is somewhat pitiful, but it causes daze for 1 round, if a Will save is failed. The spell implies that the save is forced upon every successful hit on a target, so you can focus fire. Iterative probability takes care of the rest.

Gestalt trick
Okay. Here's a little trick that's easy to use if you're in gestalt, though it requires a level dip in a manifesting class if you're not (or a 3 level dip, if you want to do it that way).

There's a feat in Hyperconscious called Skill Finesse that allows you to substitute your manifesting score for the normal ability score on a skill of your choice. Go illumian and use the sigil that allows you to use Strength as your casting/manifesting stat, and take Skill Finesse for a skill you'd like to be fairly high. Then take factotum 3 so you have Brains Over Brawn available. Now you have +Str and +Int to whatever skill you like. Very nice if you make use of PAO or Metamorphosis for a nice high Str mod.

Best if used with Concentration, especially given some of those Concentration-substitution maneuvers in ToB.

Interesting templates
Unseelie Fey, original printing Dragon Magazine #304 page 65.
The template lacks LA. Also so does the example creature it uses - the unicorn, which we know for a fact has a +4 (cohort) rating.
Page 64 contains a sidebar noting what is for players (literally named "for your character") which does nothing to talk about a PC obtaining anything personally, just as summons and cohorts. It is here than the 4HD Unseelie Fey Unicorn example is noted as being a 9th level cohort.

Fast forward a bit. Dragon Compendium Volume 1, page 222.
The template lacks LA. Noted example (gnome) maintains a +0 LA rating.

Useful items
    Energy Trap: A rather weak DD power for a manifester, but the secondary effects tied to each version of it are rather interesting since they last 1 round/level.
    Amulet of Peace: You guys know that Setting Sun counter that lets you use Sense Motive instead of AC? This is that effect in magic item form, except for Diplomacy, and it applies against Full Attacks! For 5000gp! Twice per day!

Dragonmarks
Spell Haven: From Dragonmarked, it requires a Dragonmark of any grade (Aberrant or True), but it's a lower-level Contingency. Even better, it doesn't override existing Contingencies. The downside is the spells you can use with it are limited by your Dragonmark's grade, to a maximum of 5th level for a Greater dragonmark. Oh, and it's open to Clerics and Bards, not just Sor/Wiz. I'll post the spell itself if asked, since it's a tad useful.

Prestige classes
I was just taking a peek through the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergard when I stumbled across the PrCs.

    Serene Guardian: A Full BAB class that advances Monk abilites. Nothing really special because the class features are really weak (since they require you to hit a creature multiple times without killing it), but the Capstone is a monumental improvement over Quivering Palm (as in, actually useful if your DM doesn't let your Monk use Greater Mighty Wallop). But then there's the 9th level ability: You get a permanent Moment of Perfect Mind that triggers whenever you would fail a Will save. Yeah, effectively an EX Mindblank that still allows buffs!
    Solar Channeler: Exactly as it appears in EtCR, this class is garbage.
    Dark Scholar: 9/10ths Arcane advancement with UMD as a class skill, and really easy entry (10 ranks in one of three Knowledge skills, must have 4th level arcane spells, and must be Rank 9 in the Ebon Cabal (an alignment-neutral organization). While it isn't exactly good for all 10 levels, and the first level is the 1/10 I mentioned earlier, it's possible to get a permanent Silent Spell benefit on any spell you cast up to two levels below your highest (a Wizard 19/Dark Scholar 1 with this would be able to cast every 7th level or lower spell without verbal components, at no increased casting time or spell slot adjustment).
    Twisted Lord: About as bad as the Solar Channeler above.


But wait, there's more: Qualifying for these prestige classes gives you two free magic items (joining the Ebon Cabal also gives you a free 500gp diamond, which is a nice perk).

    Luminous Order, Rank 5+: You receive a Luminary Tabard, and can copy spells from any lower-ranked member of the order for FREE
        That Tabard BTW? 3,000gp for a +2 Resistance bonus on Reflex saves, and whenever you save against a Fear effect you heal equal to either the CL or HD of the source of the fear effect. While this doesn't sound like much, keep in mind that it triggers off of the Intimidate skill, and can be used infinitely!
    Luminous Order, Rank 9: Nothing much, just a Weapon of the Celestial Host.
        Any weapon with this ability ceases functioning and becomes temporarily nonmagical in the hands of an Evil wielder, meaning it's perfect if you hate having your weapon stolen. In anyone else's hands, it acts as a +1 weapon with two additional abilities: a +1 Shield bonus to AC, and it can shed light as a Bullseye Lantern, at will. This costs 4,000gp, and can be applied to any Two-Handed Weapon. What's more, it doesn't follow the normal Enhancement Bonus rules, so that 4,000gp doesn't screw up the +10 you want.
    Ebon Cabal, Rank 5+: You get a Robe of the Ebon Cabal, worth 3,000gp.
        Said Robe provides 5 Temporary Hit Points every 24 hours (lame) and a +1 Resistance bonus to saves against spells and spell-like abilities (decent).
    Ebon Cabal, Rank 9: You get one of the Rods of the Tower, valued at 7,000gp. You also get a 500gp Diamond.
        There are 4 of these little rods, each with three buttons. The first button on each rod can be used at will. The next two can be used 1/day each, and are fairly minor. Each rod turns into a +1 piece of equipment (Dagger, Short Sword, Buckler, or Spear, in order) when the first button is pressed.

        Button 2 casts a spell (Scorching Ray, Spider Climb, Invisibility, Scare, in order again). Again, this button only works 1/day.

        Button 3 casts another spell (Burning Hands, Expeditious Retreat, Obscuring Mist, or Ray of Enfeeblement, in order).


        So you effectively get a free 4,000gp. Considering it takes next-to-nothing to get to Rank 9 (no fees, no need to do any quests), this is just +4,000gp to your WBL at 2nd level.



There are a few other magic items in this book, but none of them are "freebies" like those four.

Knowledge related
Along the lines of stupid tricks, check out the Draconic Knowledge feat in Draconomicon.  Now, a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold who put a 16 in Int qualifies for that feat at level 1.  This means you only need to roll a 3 to know "something with worldwide or planetwide significance" such as "world wide cataclysms" and you need to roll an 8 to know about "Something with regional significance, but long-lasting or with long-term impact" such as "Information about empires, wars, regional disasters..."

The relevance?  If you're playing in Eberron, you can make a character that's pretty much guaranteed to know exactly what caused the Day of Mourning (whether you need a 3 or an 8 depends on what you consider to be the scope of that event).  You can get a +5 to this if you put down your homeland as "Cyre" so that you have a lair in the Mournland.  You can also get a +1 to this check for every five ranks in Knowledge History.  Congrats, your first level character just broke the entire setting (second level if you wanted that extra +1).  Feel free to sell this information or do what you will with it.  More to the point, feel free to annoy the heck out of your DM by demanding he give a full explanation for what happened.

JaronK


Great utility item
Found a really good magic item in Eyes of the Lich Queen (an Eberron Module):

Quote
TELEPORT STONE
Price (Item Level): 2,250 gp (6th)
Body Slot: —
Caster Level: 6th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 18) conjuration
Activation: Standard
Weight: 1 lb.
Light shifts and bends through this fist-sized prism, which seems to hold an
image of a location within it.

A teleport stone transports its user and up to 50 pounds of additional weight to a location to which it is attuned, as long as that distance is within 900 miles. Attuning a teleport stone to a particular location requires 10 minutes, during which time the item must be at that location. The attuned location can be changed as often as needed, but once the item is used to teleport, it is consumed.

Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, teleport. Cost to Create: 1,125 gp, 90 XP, 3 days.

Flexible  casting
Saw some of the neat finds regarding the Villain Design Handbook and found one of my own:

KoK:VDH page 76, "Spell Swap [Metamagic Feat]": this feat lets a wizard, for an easily beaten spellcraft DC, spontaneously cast at-will. Further, though RAI is clear enough (i.e. clear enough that it can, in fact, be considered intended), the RAW leaves open a few critical issues: must the spell swapped in be from your spell list? must you know the spell to be swapped in? The text explicitly states it must be of the same level. It says nothing of spell source (arcane or divine), of spell list, of class, of being known. If you squint a little bit, wizards can now cast any spell of any level to which they have access (and have prepared spells).

To anticipate people citing the parenthetical remark about clerics, "much like clerics" is not grounds for claiming RAW as simile is not a useful logical determinant, nor should the parenthetical remark be considered at all as an assertion of rules since such remarks are semantically unnecessary, used for clarification, not for crucial elements, which rules certainly are in a game, as games are rules-based.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bhu on November 16, 2011, 05:38:40 AM
SOundwave do you have some sort of index of whats been done and what still needs done?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Soundwave on November 17, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
ive had a nasty fever the last few days i believe i left off a post 23 or or page 23 ? of the 2nd thread?

Im still a bit out of it but ill let you know as soon as im feeling a little bit better
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mister Freeze on November 17, 2011, 10:52:26 PM
Worship Istus or Lyrus and gives you access to the luck domain and destiny domain.  Luck gets your freedom of movement and miracle, destiny gets you choose destiny (rounds/level, roll 2d20s on all attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks), warp destiny (immediate action save reroll AFTER learning result, with a bonus equal to your CL, capped at 20), and omen of peril. 

Player's Guide to Faerun: weirdstone.  Shut down all teleportation, extradimensional travel, etherealness, scrying, and anything that mimics them in a 6 mile radius.  Can be activated and deactivated as you wish. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bhu on November 18, 2011, 04:38:26 AM
ive had a nasty fever the last few days i believe i left off a post 23 or or page 23 ? of the 2nd thread?

Im still a bit out of it but ill let you know as soon as im feeling a little bit better

Cool.  I'll be ready when you heal up.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bastian on January 01, 2012, 04:08:17 PM
I found something to revive an old invincibility trick. The hydra-Lumi trick was recently found to not work since Lumis are only immune to the decapitation effect of vorpal weapons, not the RAW method to decapitate a Hyrda. The Star Tortoise Shield from Dragon 335 (pg 70) doesn't have that weakness since it makes you immune to the decapitation effect of vorpal weapons and "similar effects."
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 01, 2012, 11:19:34 PM
Some of the Dragonlance books have some amazing spells.

Mostly in Towers of High Sorcery

Edit: thanks for reminding me of the mouth darts
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mushroom on January 04, 2012, 03:02:49 AM
In Dragonlance: Holy orders of stars there is the Tenacious Soul template, which gives you the rejuvenation ability of ghosts. While it isn't as nice as ghost, it isn't too bad for those who don't want to be undead
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on January 06, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
Quote from: PgtE, 125
Mastery of Day and Night

You have learned to calculate the precise locations of Irian and Mabar at any given time, and to use that knowledge to enhance your manipulation of positive and negative energy.
Prerequisite: Knowledge (the planes) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks, Maximize Spell.
Benefit: You can spontaneously apply the effect of the Maximize Spell metamagic feat to any cure or inflict spell you cast. Doing this has no effect on the spell's level or casting time.

Free Maximize is nice, especially because this has combat applications for gishes like Duskblades with Arcane Disciple.

Edit:

Quote from: PGtE, 126
Mastery of the Silver Void

You have gained a deeper understanding of the Astral Plane and its relationship to the other planes of the cosmos. You can use that knowledge to more quickly access that plane.
Prerequisite: Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks, Quicken Spell.
Benefit: Three times per day, you can spontaneously apply the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to any conjuration (teleportation) spell you cast. Doing this has no effect on the spell's level and can be done even by spontaneous Spellcasters; however, it reduces your caster level for the spell by 9 (which likely reduces the number of other creatures you can affect with the spell).


Mastery of Twisted Shadow

You gain the ability to reach into the Plane of Shadow when casting an illusion, concealing yourself in the raw shadow- stuff drawn forth.
Prerequisite: Knowledge (the planes) 2 ranks, Spell- craft 4 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever you cast an illusion spell, you can choose as a free action to grant yourself concealment for 1 round per level of the spell. Multiple uses of this feat don't stack; only the longest duration applies.

If there isn't a way for us to abuse these, I will cry.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Unbeliever on January 06, 2012, 08:44:42 AM
Bump -- anyway people can think of to optimize the following?  The only thing I can think of is multiheaded, which is kind of a high cost (less so with LA buyoff).  That will work for a few levels, but I was hoping for something more.

Interesting build:
Glimmmerskin Halfling Dragonfire Adept 5/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1
Feats
     1st   Draconic Heitage
     3rd   Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Healing)
     6th   Draconic Breath
Invocations
     Enthralling Voice (6th level spell! for a lesser invocation!)

Can breath 12d6 breath weapons at will, at a 16+Cha DC. Best low level blasting I've seen in awhile.

I think I see what it is. Enthralling Voice is a SLA of 6th level, so you use Nosomatic Chirugeon to convert that into a Mass IMW, and then use Draconic Breath to turn that into a 12d6 breath weapon.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on January 08, 2012, 02:33:18 AM
Player's Guide to Faerun: weirdstone.  Shut down all teleportation, extradimensional travel, etherealness, scrying, and anything that mimics them in a 6 mile radius.  Can be activated and deactivated as you wish.
Warning: It (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/pg2f125n4weirdstonewndr.png/)'s 250K GP. I wonder if it counters Mindsight (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/lom126mndsghtfeat.png/).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on January 14, 2012, 02:35:24 PM
If there isn't a way for us to abuse these, I will cry.
Only for a 'no metamagic reducers' game ... which should be them all but hey
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 20, 2012, 01:54:58 AM
Ring of Fire (Exemplars of Evil), a spell that creates a sphere of lava the expands every round, does NOT require being cast on the floor, just has medium range.

Think of a blob of lava glowing white-hot about the ground, slowly growing and trapping flying creatures. Then when the spell ends, creates a micro-moon that you could build a wizards towers on
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on January 20, 2012, 06:50:45 AM
Ring of Fire (Exemplars of Evil), a spell that creates a sphere of lava the expands every round, does NOT require being cast on the floor, just has medium range.

Think of a blob of lava glowing white-hot about the ground, slowly growing and trapping flying creatures. Then when the spell ends, creates a micro-moon that you could build a wizards towers on
As much as I would love to make a mini-moonlet, the spell text is pretty clear it's only ever a ring, not a sphere.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: spacemonkey555 on January 20, 2012, 08:51:14 AM
Ring of Fire (Exemplars of Evil), a spell that creates a sphere of lava the expands every round, does NOT require being cast on the floor, just has medium range.

Think of a blob of lava glowing white-hot about the ground, slowly growing and trapping flying creatures. Then when the spell ends, creates a micro-moon that you could build a wizards towers on

It's Conjuration (Creation) so it has to be on a surface capable of supporting it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 20, 2012, 11:29:33 AM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on January 20, 2012, 07:45:17 PM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
combine it with a chainspelled Blockade to make interesting shapes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 21, 2012, 08:21:23 PM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
Change it to Personal and use Ocular Spell for a creative way to kill.

Wait, maybe I'm thinking of a different feat or ability...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 22, 2012, 01:51:56 AM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
combine it with a chainspelled Blockade to make interesting shapes.

I don't see how Chain Spell works on blockade.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Aliek on January 22, 2012, 02:31:04 AM
On the fiendish codex, there's a feat, abyss-bound soul, where you get to chose a demon prince as your patron. If you chose Baphomet, you gain double damage on charges(+1 to the multiplier).

Pretty bad for qualifying, tough.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on January 22, 2012, 03:25:42 AM
get it for free by worshiping an elder evil.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: LargePrime on January 22, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
combine it with a chainspelled Blockade to make interesting shapes.

I don't see how Chain Spell works on blockade.
it specifies a single 5' square
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 22, 2012, 11:37:22 AM
I knew it had to be too good to be true. I still like the spell

But Sculpt Spell at least change the area type
combine it with a chainspelled Blockade to make interesting shapes.

I don't see how Chain Spell works on blockade.
it specifies a single 5' square

Chain Spell requires "a single target and range greater than touch"
which Blockade qualifies for half of those
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 24, 2012, 04:52:16 PM
In Dragonlance's Legend of the Twins...

Academic Priest grants your divine spells from a single class to be Int-based

Dynamic Priest grants the same, but Cha-based
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on January 24, 2012, 07:41:05 PM
Monster Manual 1; Deep halflings. Get stone sense like a dwarf, darkvision, and lose your athletics racial bonus. Seems like a nice trade up to me.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 24, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
Monster Manual 1; Deep halflings. Get stone sense like a dwarf, darkvision, and lose your athletics racial bonus. Seems like a nice trade up to me.
Hmm... yeah, that's pretty nice. Don't know why I haven't seen that before. I guess because everyone always chooses whisper gnome or strongheart halfling over it... (or kobold...)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agita on January 27, 2012, 04:10:06 PM
In Dragonlance's Legend of the Twins...

Academic Priest grants your divine spells from a single class to be Int-based

Dynamic Priest grants the same, but Cha-based
Not quite - they change the stat that determines bonus spells and the stat that determines the maximum level of spell you can cast, while leaving the stat that determines DC alone. So it's awesome for an Archivist, but a Favored Soul is still out of luck.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 30, 2012, 08:58:03 PM
Casting Absorb Weapon on a foe's unarmed strike
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: rot42 on January 30, 2012, 10:59:32 PM
Casting Absorb Weapon on a foe's unarmed strike

Absorb Weapon (in the Spell Compendium and Complete Adventurer) specifies that the target weapon be "not in another creature's possession". Your own unarmed strike, though ...  :???
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on January 31, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
It creates a black hole destroying the multiverse ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 31, 2012, 06:21:28 AM
No matter how many times I try, I can't let go of my hand. It's like its attached or something >.<

Pirates get all the fun.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: rot42 on January 31, 2012, 07:12:51 AM
See your local Cleric for a quick salve of Blood Wind, and call me in the morning.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 18, 2012, 08:04:09 PM
Frost Vortex (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20011121a#1). It's a double threat spell (Cold damage, plus a short duration Slow effect on a Reflex save). Better than that, it can be used like a trap, with a permanent duration until triggered. No expensive material components or xp costs, just a 5th level slot. Could be useful for trapping your lair on off-days, alongside Ghoul Glyph and Explosive Runes?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 12, 2012, 02:42:11 AM
Lots of Doomstrike weapons + improved sunder = lots of attacks as as a standard action

You can get em cheap from morphing doomstrike shurikens
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 12, 2012, 09:21:35 AM
From Drow of the Underdark:
Despana School (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Despana_School): It's like Martial Stance (thicket of blades) and Augment Summoning rolled into one. Note that you can use it with familiars and special mounts.
Eilservs School (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Eilservs_School): Put this on a UMD rogue.
Versatile Combatant (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Versatile_Combatant): Basically Two-Weapon Fighting and Close Combat Shot(!) combined, with easy prereqs; sure it's hand crossbows only, but DotU also has the better-known Hand Crossbow Focus (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Hand_Crossbow_Focus)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 13, 2012, 06:06:32 PM
Critical Hit builds are NASTY!

Stalactite, a +3 weapon property from Underdark, petrifies the target on a critical hit (DC19).  "Save or die" properties are rare, but this one has a somewhat decent save DC and bypasses Death Ward as well as most immunities.  I only know of a handful of living creatures that are immune to petrification.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on June 07, 2012, 04:54:16 PM
Rangers do have one major claim to fame: They're the only class that allows taking an Epic feat at level 12 (or earlier if you manage to get a new feat at 11).

The Uncanny Accuracy Epic feat allows you to ignore miss chances from all concealment, even total.  It also states
Quote from: SRD, Uncanny Accuracy
Special

A character with at least 11 levels of ranger can qualify for this feat even if he or she does not have the prerequisites for it, but can only use it when wearing light or no armor.

Making it the only Epic feat I know of that is available before level 21 (without Old Dragon cheese).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 07, 2012, 06:36:23 PM
Rangers do have one major claim to fame: They're the only class that allows taking an Epic feat at level 12 (or earlier if you manage to get a new feat at 11).

The Uncanny Accuracy Epic feat allows you to ignore miss chances from all concealment, even total.  It also states
Quote from: SRD, Uncanny Accuracy
Special

A character with at least 11 levels of ranger can qualify for this feat even if he or she does not have the prerequisites for it, but can only use it when wearing light or no armor.

Making it the only Epic feat I know of that is available before level 21 (without Old Dragon cheese).

what?  *looks* ..... wow!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 29, 2012, 12:08:21 PM
i found a way to break the current most # of attacks/round with a single action

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1170.0

all i need is some cheap weapons and a couple feats and Disciple of Dispater ;)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on June 29, 2012, 12:17:22 PM
How are you firing 760k mouth darts in a full-attack? I thought it was only 3 darts per attack, not all of them.
Also, what's the War Domain association do (and for), and why do I fear that my first question will be answered by this one?
Oh, and how are you getting Aptitude on each of the mouth darts so you can actually apply Boomerang/Chakram Ricochet to the darts?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 29, 2012, 12:19:05 PM
or sorry forgot Multiweapon Fighting... :-p

i'm firing them as offhand weapons, instead of as the 'same' weapon

War Domain rank 4 gives you free Aptitude
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on June 29, 2012, 12:23:28 PM
Out of curiosity...

(click to show/hide)

So basically, you need to be an anthropomorphic baleen whale. :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 29, 2012, 12:25:28 PM
Out of curiosity...

(click to show/hide)

So basically, you need to be an anthropomorphic baleen whale. :p

 :lmao
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on July 01, 2012, 05:23:37 PM
For people who like breaking the game by controlling unusual undead ( you have to have access to Krynn unfortunately)

Shadow Wight (Bestiary of Krynn) is a 6 HD incorporeal undead. Its strike does normal damage and d8 Charisma damage to living creatures.

A victim taken to 0 charisma loses her feeling of self so completely, she is wiped out of existence, not only killed beyond ressurection but forgotten by all who ever met her.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 01, 2012, 05:41:24 PM
From Dragon #313:
Gore Toss. Prereqs: BAB +4, Gore attack; free AoO-less trip attempt after hitting with a gore attack.
Spirit of the Beast. Prereqs: Alternate form, Quick Change, Dex/Con 13; you can manifest your other form's natural weapons in humanoid form.

The Mind Mage from the same issue is also interesting. An 8/8/10 theurge PrC with CL/ML/save DC shenanigans, cheap Eschew/Silent/Still, and the ability to channel touch spells through powers. Plus it comes with a bunch of feats which let you expend spells to add effects to powers and vice versa.

For people who like breaking the game by controlling unusual undead ( you have to have access to Krynn unfortunately)

Shadow Wight (Bestiary of Krynn) is a 6 HD incorporeal undead. Its strike does normal damage and d8 Charisma damage to living creatures.

A victim taken to 0 charisma loses her feeling of self so completely, she is wiped out of existence, not only killed beyond ressurection but forgotten by all who ever met her.
So... it's a Tomogara (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShakuganNoShana)?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mister Lamp on July 01, 2012, 11:00:36 PM
For people who like breaking the game by controlling unusual undead ( you have to have access to Krynn unfortunately)

Shadow Wight (Bestiary of Krynn) is a 6 HD incorporeal undead. Its strike does normal damage and d8 Charisma damage to living creatures.

A victim taken to 0 charisma loses her feeling of self so completely, she is wiped out of existence, not only killed beyond ressurection but forgotten by all who ever met her.

Krynn is just plain funky. I love Dragonlance, but that bestiary. . .

For example, the Cedar Wretch at CR 4, gets 6 attacks at a +8 each. I placed one of these against 6th level characters, and one of them walked up. . . and got nailed by 2 hits and 2 crits. . . and died.

Another example, the Frost Dragon can also remove you from existence, and the Amphi-Dragon just shouldn't exist.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on July 02, 2012, 08:29:19 AM
Yea, they got that "Sentient Essence of Primordial Chaos Seeking to Undo All Creation" thing going on. This results in some pretty freaky monsters.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mister Lamp on July 02, 2012, 12:49:53 PM
Yea, they got that "Sentient Essence of Primordial Chaos Seeking to Undo All Creation" thing going on. This results in some pretty freaky monsters.

:D Best kind of Chaos.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on July 02, 2012, 02:39:09 PM
My favourite is the black willow. Not because of the stats (its a typical overpowered plant monster - 12 attacks at +14 with a chance to constrict and swallow whole) but because it looks hilarious in the picture.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on July 13, 2012, 05:52:45 AM
For phylacteries:
Quote from: Higher-Order Ability of the "The Metacube" touchstone, Planar Handbook, page 170
Once per day as a full round action, you can improve the sturdiness and durability of one building, piece of sculpture, piece of furniture, or other constructed object. To do this, you must spend the full round touching the object in question. At the end of that period, the object gains a number of hit points equal to your character level, which may make the object better than new, even more sturdy than when it was first constructed.
Repeat ad nauseam.

The Recharge Condition isn't dangerous either and is indefinitely redoable.

Quote from: Recharge Condition of the "The Metacube" touchstone, Planar Handbook, page 170
Stop the equation, then restart its progress by carving the next three symbols yourself. This requires a DC 15 Intelligence check or a DC 25 Knowledge (the planes) check.

(click to show/hide)

Touchstones are like old-school versions of Magical locations, or vice versa.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Tshern on July 13, 2012, 06:10:22 AM
Rangers do have one major claim to fame: They're the only class that allows taking an Epic feat at level 12 (or earlier if you manage to get a new feat at 11).

The Uncanny Accuracy Epic feat allows you to ignore miss chances from all concealment, even total.  It also states
Quote from: SRD, Uncanny Accuracy
Special

A character with at least 11 levels of ranger can qualify for this feat even if he or she does not have the prerequisites for it, but can only use it when wearing light or no armor.

Making it the only Epic feat I know of that is available before level 21 (without Old Dragon cheese).
There's always the debate about the Rogue's Special ability's Feat option. Also, the Lightning Warrior gets Perfect two-weapon fighting!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 13, 2012, 06:28:29 AM
Lightning Warrior?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 13, 2012, 07:26:00 AM
Lightning Warrior?

Don't bother.  It doesn't even get a familiar.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on July 13, 2012, 07:53:38 AM
Recently noticed Improved Precise Shot either makes the opponent AC 10, or just removes the need to roll to hit entirely.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 13, 2012, 08:42:25 AM
I noticed Unseelie Fey could be applied to a half-ogre or half-giant.  If it's ruled that the creature could be both primordial and unseelie fey, that's +4 int and +6 cha for 0 LA, although -6 str and -4 con is a bit annoying.  Magic-blooded would add another +2 cha for 0 LA.

All told, using the combo on a half-giant would yield -4 str, +0 dex, -2 con, +4 int, -4 wis, +8 cha and a bunch of other potentially fun abilities for LA +1.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on July 13, 2012, 01:14:13 PM
I noticed Unseelie Fey could be applied to a half-ogre or half-giant.  If it's ruled that the creature could be both primordial and unseelie fey, that's +4 int and +6 cha for 0 LA, although -6 str and -4 con is a bit annoying.  Magic-blooded would add another +2 cha for 0 LA.

All told, using the combo on a half-giant would yield -4 str, +0 dex, -2 con, +4 int, -4 wis, +8 cha and a bunch of other potentially fun abilities for LA +1.
Actually, reread the Racial Variants article(Dr306, P60-61). It says Magic-Blooded can be applied to PHB races, and nothing else. So, sadly, it doesn't work.

There is no reason that a Primordial Half-Giant can't have Unseelie Fey applied to it as well.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 13, 2012, 11:29:27 PM
I noticed Unseelie Fey could be applied to a half-ogre or half-giant.  If it's ruled that the creature could be both primordial and unseelie fey, that's +4 int and +6 cha for 0 LA, although -6 str and -4 con is a bit annoying.  Magic-blooded would add another +2 cha for 0 LA.

All told, using the combo on a half-giant would yield -4 str, +0 dex, -2 con, +4 int, -4 wis, +8 cha and a bunch of other potentially fun abilities for LA +1.
Actually, reread the Racial Variants article(Dr306, P60-61). It says Magic-Blooded can be applied to PHB races, and nothing else. So, sadly, it doesn't work.

There is no reason that a Primordial Half-Giant can't have Unseelie Fey applied to it as well.

I concede on the racial variants since it does say PHB races, but boy does that spoil creative variants for other races.

As for primordial and unseelie fey, it depends on how the DM interprets things.  They are both inherited templates and thus supposedly applied at the same time, but a problem might come up because applying unseelie "first" means the creature turns into fey which means primordial can't apply, but chances are a DM who allows them would allow both to work on the same creature.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 13, 2012, 11:43:27 PM
I noticed Unseelie Fey could be applied to a half-ogre or half-giant.  If it's ruled that the creature could be both primordial and unseelie fey, that's +4 int and +6 cha for 0 LA, although -6 str and -4 con is a bit annoying.  Magic-blooded would add another +2 cha for 0 LA.

All told, using the combo on a half-giant would yield -4 str, +0 dex, -2 con, +4 int, -4 wis, +8 cha and a bunch of other potentially fun abilities for LA +1.
Actually, reread the Racial Variants article(Dr306, P60-61). It says Magic-Blooded can be applied to PHB races, and nothing else. So, sadly, it doesn't work.

There is no reason that a Primordial Half-Giant can't have Unseelie Fey applied to it as well.

I concede on the racial variants since it does say PHB races, but boy does that spoil creative variants for other races.

As for primordial and unseelie fey, it depends on how the DM interprets things.  They are both inherited templates and thus supposedly applied at the same time, but a problem might come up because applying unseelie "first" means the creature turns into fey which means primordial can't apply, but chances are a DM who allows them would allow both to work on the same creature.

As long as they're applied in the proper order, there shouldn't be a issue. It's just requirements, just as other things like feats and classes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on July 14, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
The spell "Hero's Blade", ECS page 112. While from an odd domain, and a 9th level spell, among other effects it grants a keen effect that specifically stacks with the Imp Crit feat, though not the keen weapon ability.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 14, 2012, 07:48:11 PM
Actually, reread the Racial Variants article(Dr306, P60-61). It says Magic-Blooded can be applied to PHB races, and nothing else. So, sadly, it doesn't work.

There is no reason that a Primordial Half-Giant can't have Unseelie Fey applied to it as well.
If you're going to climb into what is or isn't intent by reading into the section of how to apply the template to a PHB race means PHB race only, don't 180 things and spit on Unseelie's entry because you feel like it. Unseelie is explicitly noted as being either a summon or cohort (@+1 to lvl) to PCs and lacks LA entry even in it's 3.5 update.

It's like arguing Abjurantion's Champion example proves Mage Armor to be of a different school despite lacking the text to support it, while saying the class doesn't advance Initiator Level because the ToB doesn't reference it directly. Kind of contrary indicative of each other.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on July 14, 2012, 08:10:00 PM
Hm? I don't see where it says summon or cohort only in the DrC, which is, last I checked, the most recent printing, and it does confirm the LA 0. Care to give a page number?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on July 14, 2012, 08:32:22 PM
Hm? I don't see where it says summon or cohort only in the DrC, which is, last I checked, the most recent printing, and it does confirm the LA 0. Care to give a page number?

I second these counter-assertions.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 16, 2012, 02:31:09 PM
Hm? I don't see where it says summon or cohort only in the DrC, which is, last I checked, the most recent printing, and it does confirm the LA 0. Care to give a page number?
"Two pages up" work? No? Damn, give me a minute you won't notice here....

Dragon Compendium, page 1 and etc: This is a reprint of Dragon Mag stuff (not even noted as an update honestly).
Dragon Compendium, page 222: Stat block says +0 LA.
Dragon Compendium, page 223: No LA entry rules.

Dragon 304, page 64: For characters table entry noting they can pick up the creatures as Cohorts and Summons.
No text saying it's a template for them to take, just Cohort/Summon. Hence the observation form before. Anyway...

Dragon 304, page 64: The Unicorn is noted as a 9th level Cohort.
Dragon 304, page 66: No LA entry rules, but then again 3.0 didn't have LA rules.

Sadly, I can find no notation of Unicorn's effective character level in 3.0 SRD rules. I've never gone 100% in this as my personal tastes are simply to ban the template to begin with. I can say 3.5's Unicorn is an 8th level Cohort, 4HD & +4 in the LA entry. So best guess given examples tend to be horrendously erroneous, the correct entry should be +1 (cohort), which is based rule entry on for players holding priority over example and source having no input. But if you have some 3.0 rulebooks laying around, look up the information on Leadership & Unicorns for me and let me know what you find. Like the 3.0 Unicorn being a 9th level Cohort would prove otherwise.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on July 17, 2012, 03:32:48 PM
Here's a fun one:

The Telfor template from UE is a +2 LA template that can only be applied to Humanoids and Animals.

It restricts them to being within 1 mile of the spot they first appeared in (they take 1 damage per minute outside of there; how hard is it to get Fast Healing?  :P).

But what makes it really cool is... it makes you Incorporeal, and turns your normal melee attacks into incorporeal touch attacks. And gives you Dex to hit.

So, is 2 LA worth it for Incorporeality and a permanent Wraithstrike effect? I can think of some fun things to do with Tiger Claw maneuvers and the like...

Also, through a "typo", which I don't think has been fixed... According to UE, you can play a Wolf at 2 HD and +2 LA. Which would be kinda funny.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 17, 2012, 04:06:32 PM
Also, through a "typo", which I don't think has been fixed... According to UE, you can play a Wolf at 2 HD and +2 LA. Which would be kinda funny.

mine says LA +4 under the npc entry.

taking the template off.... a wolf is a 2 HD, +2 LA animal.... thats awesome!!!!!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on July 17, 2012, 04:51:01 PM
Well, that's with the template, which is +2 LA by the text.

I'm kinda sad that that LA is probably over-written by the Monster Manual (I haven't checked publishing dates)

I mean, 2hd and +2 LA for some free feats, some nice stats, and animal type isn't to much, right?

Might want to go Druid, to get the Fangshield Druid sub level that gives you Wild Shape (Humanoid); call yourself a werewolf, you dig?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 17, 2012, 05:38:26 PM
yeah, unfortunately the MM1 came out a couple months after Unapproachable East :(

and the other unfortunate thing is that the wolf actually has a "--" for LA :(  i was hoping for it to be left out, then you could argue that it was never changed :-p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on July 17, 2012, 08:13:52 PM
(click to show/hide)
Telthor: Low-level incorporeality (updated with a handy guide!) (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3287.3)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 23, 2012, 01:01:34 AM
So... I just noticed that Sepia Snake Sigil is very nasty if you can actually get someone to read the text, and you can bypass the material component cost. It puts them in a days/level "stasis"... but you can actually kill the crap out of them while they're in it. Any damage you do to them is "delayed' until they leave stasis, but it is then all delivered to them at once... which is kind of crazy, IMO.

One of the nice things about it is that it is a Conjuration (Creation) [Force] spell (hello SCM! ignore that 10 minute casting time AND the material components), and the saving throw is Reflex, which many people tend to consider not as important as Fort and Will. Also, no undead immunities to it, or anything, and it even affects incorporeals! :D

Also, there is no range limit! If they can read it, and there is Line of Effect to them, they get imprisoned in a force-stasis thingee!

And the Sigils are permanent until discharged. So you could totally load up on giant billboards covered in these, visible from outer space, just in case of an alien invasion, if you wanted to.  :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on July 23, 2012, 02:52:28 AM
So... I just noticed that Sepia Snake Sigil is very nasty if you can actually get someone to read the text, and you can bypass the material component cost. It puts them in a days/level "stasis"... but you can actually kill the crap out of them while they're in it. Any damage you do to them is "delayed' until they leave stasis, but it is then all delivered to them at once... which is kind of crazy, IMO.

One of the nice things about it is that it is a Conjuration (Creation) [Force] spell (hello SCM! ignore that 10 minute casting time AND the material components), and the saving throw is Reflex, which many people tend to consider not as important as Fort and Will. Also, no undead immunities to it, or anything, and it even affects incorporeals! :D

Also, there is no range limit! If they can read it, and there is Line of Effect to them, they get imprisoned in a force-stasis thingee!

And the Sigils are permanent until discharged. So you could totally load up on giant billboards covered in these, visible from outer space, just in case of an alien invasion, if you wanted to.  :p

Quote from: SRD > Spells > Sepia Snake Sigil http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm
The text containing the symbol must be at least twenty-five words long.
"I prepared Sepia Snake Sigil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm) this morning. Twenty-five words long, twenty-five words long, and twenty-five words long, makes twenty-five words long."

Quote from: SRD > Spells > Sepia Snake Sigil http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm
Simply seeing the enspelled text is not sufficient to trigger the spell; the subject must deliberately read it.
"SEX! BOOBS! NAKED! In Chain-Mail UNDERTHINGs! HOT, FOUR-way, NYMPH (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm) on 'WILD' ELF on DRYAD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dryad.htm) on SUCCUBUS (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#succubus) action! [etc.]"
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, at 12:01:46 AM by NiteCyper »
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on July 23, 2012, 03:01:52 AM
"As you will find, I have prepared a spell of utmost potency this morning; a glyph of surpassing potency, the exceptionally potent- Sepia Snake Sigil."

I don't know, doesn't have the same ring as "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning."

Of course, you could just straight out go for some very steamy erotica...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 23, 2012, 08:43:12 AM
Is there any way to abuse the definition of "text" in order to communicate the sigil via dance or illumnians? :p The casting time can be cut down by limited wish or Uncanny Forethought.

Nastiest way to use it is to hide it in a scroll of teleport (which has an identical aura), hand to a guy and tell him to use it in an emergency.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on July 23, 2012, 12:16:11 PM
Stick it on pretty much any sign or poster, and hit it with permanency so it resets like the symbol spells. Press-ganging at its finest.

Edit: Prime, just have a 25 word sentence tattooed on your body.

Edit 2: reading comprehension fail.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sagroth on August 02, 2012, 04:38:54 AM
This one is a bit roleplay and DM reliant, but I think it's hilarious.


Out of Dragon, there is a PrC called the Charlatan(link to a great handbook on it on these very boards). It is a 5 lvl PrC that, amongst other things, lets you improve your reputation in an area, and turn the residents of a city against an individual. It requires high Bluff checks for the largest cities, but that's easy to optimize. IIRc, ELH also details Epic Bluff checks.

But where this can get really fun is if you and the person you want screwed over are in the same city, and that city has a Zeitgeist(a fey from Cityscape). CR 23 fey embodiment of a city that feels as the residents of a city feels. In fact, one of its forms is that of an angry mob.

Anyone who ever wants to play a Charlatan needs to set up shop in a city with a zeitgeist. The easiest way for a 10th level character to get an epic "patron." Even better, with Charlatan, you can claim all of the Zeitgeist's powers(it has nearly 20 at-will SLAs) as your own powers(with take credit from Charlatan). It also makes for great villain material. Think Oz, the Great and Terrible.

Edit: can Undead Leadership get someone a Taunting Haunt cohort? Because that makes this even better. Sic it on the person you hate and watch them dig their own graves.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Arz on August 08, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
Combo: Brutal Surge wpn & Smiting Power feat

Effect: Virtual extra attack via a swift action.

Combine this with a whirling wpn and you can bullrush a mob hitting everybody twice.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 20, 2012, 04:35:00 AM
The Bone Knight PrC in Five Nations (Eberron). Earliest entry is an easy level 5 (requirements are pretty simple, as a 4th level paladin provides everything you need)

It's a fairly straightforeward undead themed class- while it does prohibit you from advancing further as a paladin, it's a 9/10ths caster advancing class with 3/4ths BAB that gives you a number of neat features.

At first level you can:


Make medium or heavy armor with DR 1/bludgeoning (or DR2 for heavy) out of bones, and you get rebuke undead. If you had turn/rebuke before those levels stack with your effective cleric level, but you can no longer turn undead.

At second level you can assume control of undead from a willing caster (not sure if this is any good, but could be potentially interesting if you have a necromancer in your party or befriend a lich), and you can summon a skeletal steed (this replaces your paladin steed, if any)

Third level gives undead under your control turn resist = your cha mod, which is pretty damn useful actually.

4th/7th/10th your bone armor improves its DR by 1. Additionally at 4th level, it makes you immune to stunning attacks and non-lethal damage. At seventh it has a 50% chance of negating crits or sneak attack (precision damage) and allows you to act and fight without penalty even while disabled or dying. At tenth the 50% from 7th becomes 100%.

At 5th you can use a modified animate dead 1/day (it's a faction class, so it raises faction-specific undead for the lulz)

At 6th you can make a 'bonecraft' weapon, which is like your armor. It can be enchanted or made masterwork as normal, and deals an extra 1d6 damage vs living creatures when wielded by a bone knight of 6th level or higher. Not bad.

At 8th level you become largely wizard proof. I'm serious. Read this feature:

Exoskeleton of Undeath (Ex): At 8th level, your bonecraft armor fuses to your body and cannot be removed without killing you. However, you gain immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage to your physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, and death from massive damage.

All you need to get is immunity to charm/compulsion (be an elf or a paladin of freedom), and immunity to polymorph effects and you're like totally wizard proof.

At level 9 you get a once a day 'death strike' attack, which uses your bone weapon to make an attack- if it hits the target must make a fort DC 10+bone knight + cha mod save, or die (necromantic death effect).


So um. Yeah. It's a neat class, and since you can get into it at level 5, it means you can become immune to most spell effects in the game at like, level 12.

Bad Ass.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Scottzar on August 20, 2012, 05:50:25 AM
Kerrus: this is old news.
Original Twice Betrayer of Shar used bone knight.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2012, 07:43:06 AM
Kerrus: this is old news.
Original Twice Betrayer of Shar used bone knight.
Old news, but still incredibly awesome news. Since it's a pretty minor book, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people didn't know about this one. It's always been a favorite class of mine.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Aliek on August 24, 2012, 03:29:36 AM
It is also one of the few ways for a good character to have rebuke undead. The only other I can think of is death delver from heroes of horror.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 24, 2012, 10:27:22 AM
It is also one of the few ways for a good character to have rebuke undead. The only other I can think of is death delver from heroes of horror.
And Death Delver precludes being actually good.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 25, 2012, 01:17:23 AM
Ohoh, this is interesting. Dragon 326 has additional ranger combat style options!

Beast-Wrestling Style

Combat Style: Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Combat Style: Improved Grapple
Combat Style Mastery: Stunning Fist


Mounted-Combat Style

Combat Style: Ride-By Attack
Improved Combat Style: Spirited Charge
Combat Style Mastery: Trample


Piscator Style

Combat Style: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Net)
Improved Combat Style: Improved Trip
Combat Style Mastery: Improved Critical


Strong-Arm Style

Combat Style: Power Attack
Improved Combat Style: Improved Sunder
Combat Style Mastery: Great Cleave


Throwing Style

Combat Style: Quick Draw
Improved Combat Style: Point Blank Shot
Combat Style Mastery: Far Shot



As always with the combat style feats, these ignore prerequisites, and thus may be highly useful for acquiring certain otherwise inaccessible feats.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 25, 2012, 02:54:01 AM
Those are all really awful, though; none of those feats are anything that you wouldn't qualify for anyway.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 25, 2012, 03:04:27 AM
Strongarm is typically the one used for stuff like Fist of the Forest going into Deepwarden, and that's only because it's free PA and Endurance.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 25, 2012, 03:21:37 AM
Dragon 337 has something called 'spell grafts' for Sorcs. Basically sacrifice a specific spell knowledge via a feat to gain a rounds/class level (usually) ability of some sort.

They're almost universally horrible, ranging from sacrificing mirror image for an AC bonus, or sacrificing true strike (at all).

However one has potential to be interesting- Charcoal Hands has an always-on passive effect, giving  your hands (and only your hands) immunity to fire. You can also cause them to ignite for a number of rounds/class level, making your unarmed attacks deal a paltry 1d4 extra fire damage. You have to sacrifice burning hands for this, but honestly it's not a horrible tradeoff. There are easier ways to get immunity to fire of course, but I think this is a pretty interesting one.



EDIT: Dragon 321 has the Radiance Domain. One of the spells for that domain is uh, Rainbow.

For Cleric Archers I guess? :shrug:

Rainbow
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Cleric 6, Radiance 6
V/S/DF
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 0/personal
Duration: 1 hour/CL

'A rainbown-hued longbow appears in your hand, along with a full quiver full of arrows fletched in a variety of colors. The longbow is treated in all  ways as a +1 longbow that the caster is proficient in using, regardless of having the proper feats. The quiver holds an endless supply of seven different colored arrows, each being made of a different material and having the following effects.

Red: +1 elemental-bane adamantine arrows.
Orange: +1 construct-bane silver arrows.
Yellow: +1 plant-bane arrows, considered evil-aligned for overcoming DR.
Green: +1 magical-beast-bane arrows. Considered good-aligned for overcoming DR.
Blue: +1 undead-bane arrows. Considered lawful-aligned for overcoming DR.
Indigo: +1 aberration-bane arrows. Considered Chaotic aligned for overcoming DR.
Violet: +1 dragon-bane cold-iron arrows.

Only the caster can  use the longbow, quiver, and arrows. They immediately reappear in his possession if he drops them, gives them away or otherwise loses them before the spell duration is up. The longbow, quiver, and arrows created by this spell cannot be sundered and have no weight, although they can be dispelled.



Radiance Domain: Deities: Pelor, Eberron Deities: Path of Light, FR Deities: Horus-Re, Lathander, Liliira.
Granted Power: You are immune to pattern effects as a (su) ability.

Domain Spells:


1. Color Spray
2. Hypnotic Pattern
3. Searing Light
4. Faerie Fire, Widened (yes, automatically metamagiced)
5. Rainbow Pattern
6. Rainbow
7. Prismatic Spray
8. Scintillating pattern
9. Prismatic Wall

Also: Glimmerfolk: You too can be a twilight vampire.

Medium Outsider (Native).


+2 Dex, -2 Strength
Medium Size
Base Land Speed: 30 ft
Low Light Vision
Immunity to Pattern Effects
+2 racial bonus on perform checks
+4 racial bonus on saving throws vs spells of the shadow subschool or with the darkness descriptor.
Automatica languages: Sylvan.
Bonus Languages: Auran, Common, Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblic, Orc.
'Nimlis (Sp): All adult glimmerfolk have three globes of immaterial colored light about 2 inches in diameter which float within 1 foot of them at all times and orbit them similar to ioun stones. A nimli glows with constant light equivalent to a candle (A glimmerfolk takes a -2 to hide checks for each nimli they have active), but they do not interfere with spells such as mirror image or invisibility.

As a standard action, ag limmerfolk can use one or more of her nimlis to cast a spell. Doing so causes it to 'burn out' until they've had a chance to rest for at least 8 hours.

So uh, basically they have 3 charges/day that can be expended to cast dancing lights, daze, flare per charge, or color spray, magic missile per two charges, or all three charges to cast mirror image.

Favored Class: Ranger
LA: +0


Eh. Not terrible, and a good way of getting the outsider type, but not especially good either. There's also a radiant creature template, but it has an LA of -, so isn't suitable for PC use. It's pretty nice otherwise though.



Dragon 321 also has the 5 level Barber PrC which is absolutely goddamn amazing for a rogue style character. It's on page 84 and you should take a look at it.


Dragon 323 has chocobos. Only stats for the yellow and black varieties.


Dragon 324 has a druid item- Skin of Kaletor. 12,000 gp. Slightly rotting, it confers a -6 on all cha based checks, and on wild empathy checks, but you're a druid so it's not like you give a crap. It also gives you +4 wildshaping levels, or lets a non-wildshaping character wildshape as a 4th level druid 1/day.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 25, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
You know, there are feats in DotU that let you use a Dancing Lights SLA to cast Hypnotic Pattern or Silent Image, and which give you +1/day uses.

Could be useful... you know, since they have 3 uses per day of it anyway...

It also fits the theme.

Combo with a Warlock, for unlimited Darkness, and you have something... special.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 26, 2012, 05:03:46 AM
Dragon 342 has a bunch of 'trap feats' for Kobolds. The most amusing of these feats is, IMO, Elf.


Prerequisites: Kobold
Benefit:  Upon choosing this feat the kobold spontaneously polymorphs into an elf and is immediately killed by nearby kobolds. This feat can only be selected by mistake.


Given that in the absence of PC control kobolds aren't the smartest, I find it likely that these feats exist as a natural anti-punpun measure, and they are likely selected entirely by accident by kobolds upon achieving first level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Aliek on August 26, 2012, 11:57:49 AM
And Death Delver precludes being actually good.

I'd love to argue, but on this case, it's just wrong. You don't have any alignment restrictions for death delver, and the only fluff is you need a near-death experience. That makes it as evil as blood magus, I guess.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 26, 2012, 04:02:35 PM
Dragon 346 has some Scout variants.

First up is the Sniper Variant. It's cool. It's thematic. It suuuuuuuuucks.

Basically you give up skirmish and your AC bonus to spend a full round action to make a single attack that does an extra 1d6 per 4 levels to a target 60 feet or further away. It receives no accuracy bonuses, doesn't let you make multiple attacks or otherwise compensate for the lack of multiple attacks, and as you *really* can't combo it with other precision damage it becomes largely worthless pretty fast, if not immediately.

The second is actually pretty nice IMO. It's a light cavalry variant that replaces a Scout's fast movement and stealth features (camo, HiPS) with getting a paladin mount at 5th. This mount gives up share spells and command creatures of its type (there's a little burb about having less HD, but it's used as a simulationist remark for a fluff 'feature' about how the mount is 'small for its race'. Apparently HD=GETTING HUGE. I imagine having the mount be a riding dog or the like would sidestep the issue entirely)

In exchange for what it gives up, the mount gains the Scout's fast-movement progression, ultimately gaining free movement too.

This is actually pretty neat- a halfling on a riding dog or something similar as a skirmishing scout could be pretty viable.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 26, 2012, 04:10:50 PM
And Death Delver precludes being actually good.
I'd love to argue, but on this case, it's just wrong. You don't have any alignment restrictions for death delver, and the only fluff is you need a near-death experience. That makes it as evil as blood magus, I guess.
No, it's dead right. Like Blood Magus, you can be Good, but, like Blood Magus, you cannot, in any possible universe, be anything resembling good.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 26, 2012, 05:09:30 PM
CC, I'm not going to get into any long argument with you about this since all of us know how you are lots of talk and next to ZERO proof

but you're wrong yet again... Since both can be some form of good, it all depends on the character. Yes, in most socieites death and blood are evil, but that doesn't mean ALL societies view them as bad or evil.

Examples: You could create a LG death delver searching for the damned soul of a loved one, or a CG blood magus that uses blood in magic as part of his tribal rituals to help his tribe fight a horde of invaders from across the jungle

Both of those examples have proven you wrong completely, since they now exist in thought and concept, as they break your "they can't be good, period argument."

The death delver can be any alignment... (here's a link for prereqs)
 http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/prestige2.pl?class=Death_Delver

And the blood magus can be any but LG... (here's a link for prereqs)
 http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/prestige2.pl?class=Blood_Magus
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on August 26, 2012, 05:13:05 PM
I'm reasonably certain he's talking about the fact that both blood magus and death delver are not terribly useful prestige classes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 26, 2012, 05:16:49 PM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 26, 2012, 06:29:47 PM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Nope. All of my assertions are backed up with fact. You, my friend, are the one with absurd at best ideas. Like thinking Death Delvers and Blood Magi are, in any way, good. Rebuke and crap casting, or loss of, what, five levels, are good in your book? Yeah, my point exactly. They are, in no way possible, anything resembling good. What, next are you going to talk about qualifying for whatchamacallit-theurge-thingy Lyrist with a Ring of Evasion?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Dusk Eclipse on August 26, 2012, 06:54:48 PM
Dragon 324 has a druid item- Skin of Kaletor. 12,000 gp. Slightly rotting, it confers a -6 on all cha based checks, and on wild empathy checks, but you're a druid so it's not like you give a crap. It also gives you +4 wildshaping levels, or lets a non-wildshaping character wildshape as a 4th level druid 1/day.

So you can't actually wildshape? I mean Druids only get Wildshape at level 5 (I am pretty sure it means that you can only select shapes with up to 4 HD)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 26, 2012, 06:57:52 PM
So you can't actually wildshape? I mean Druids only get Wildshape at level 5 (I am pretty sure it means that you can only select shapes with up to 4 HD)

That is the common interpretation.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 26, 2012, 08:27:03 PM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Nope. All of my assertions are backed up with fact. You, my friend, are the one with absurd at best ideas. Like thinking Death Delvers and Blood Magi are, in any way, good. Rebuke and crap casting, or loss of, what, five levels, are good in your book? Yeah, my point exactly. They are, in no way possible, anything resembling good. What, next are you going to talk about qualifying for whatchamacallit-theurge-thingy Lyrist with a Ring of Evasion?

On the topic of qualifying for Fochlucan Lyrist partially with a ring of evasion, Complete Warrior page 16 has some implications:

Quote
Meeting Class Requirements: It’s possible for a character to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position where the character no longer qualifi es to be a member of the class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible to advance farther in a prestige class.

The implication of course is that items granting various abilities can be used for meeting prestige class requirements.  Is it absolute and set in stone?  No, but it does have some rules support.


As for the comments about whether a blood magus or death delver can be "good," the obvious problem we had was people misinterpreting the word usage:  Good as in a lesser form of great, or good as in alignment.  It doesn't do well to ass/u/me someone is using a certain definition when there might not be enough context to spell it out plain as day.  For the record, it does look like both of you made asses of yourselves.

So you can't actually wildshape? I mean Druids only get Wildshape at level 5 (I am pretty sure it means that you can only select shapes with up to 4 HD)

That is the common interpretation.

Sounds like a misprint or poor editing to me.  Upping it to 5 should work alright and kind of be in line with Alter Self's 5hd limit.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 26, 2012, 08:45:14 PM
Ring of Evasion doesn't work because it doesn't give you evasion.  It grants an ability which is functionally identical, but doesn't actually give you the Evasion ability.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 26, 2012, 08:50:03 PM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Nope. All of my assertions are backed up with fact. You, my friend, are the one with absurd at best ideas. Like thinking Death Delvers and Blood Magi are, in any way, good. Rebuke and crap casting, or loss of, what, five levels, are good in your book? Yeah, my point exactly. They are, in no way possible, anything resembling good. What, next are you going to talk about qualifying for whatchamacallit-theurge-thingy Lyrist with a Ring of Evasion?

First of all, I'm not your friend or 'bro', so don't ever call me that. You use them improperly with people here.

As for the rest of it... Obviously, we both were mistaken as to what the other was talking about in post #101. I thought you were talking about alignment, while it seems you're talking about power level.

My ideas are just fine and work, except for my thoughts on the type pyramid crap. Which i admit to being wrong about now. At least I have the balls to do so, when I know I wrong. Not just argue with nearly no rules until you're hated just because you don't want to be wrong.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 26, 2012, 08:52:59 PM
Ring of Evasion doesn't work because it doesn't give you evasion.  It grants an ability which is functionally identical, but doesn't actually give you the Evasion ability.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion

Quote
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion.

Don't you just hate it how they dance around explicitly saying "While wearing this ring, you have Evasion."
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on August 26, 2012, 08:56:22 PM
Alright, let's not get carried away here. It was a simple misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 26, 2012, 09:10:37 PM
Ring of Evasion doesn't work because it doesn't give you evasion.  It grants an ability which is functionally identical, but doesn't actually give you the Evasion ability.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion

Quote
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion.

Don't you just hate it how they dance around explicitly saying "While wearing this ring, you have Evasion."

Yeah... and it doesn't work exactly like evasion even, because it works with all armor.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on August 26, 2012, 09:24:01 PM
Which would actually make it more like the divine oracle's prescient sense.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 26, 2012, 09:26:34 PM
Alright, back to the intent of the thread...

I just found Train Animal; it takes 10 minutes to cast, and teaches an animal that you touch up to 5 tricks of your choice.

The animal knows those tricks for an hour.

Now, here's the thing; while the normal DC for a Handle Animal check "pushing" an animal is 25, telling it to do a trick it knows is only a DC 10.

So if you can quicken this to a really short casting time, and dip 3 levels of Duskblade...

You can punch animals into obedience; not powerful, but boy is it fun.

Though you could, if you really felt like it, cast an Earthbound Train Animal to train basic animals how to attack things. Or whatever.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 26, 2012, 10:14:48 PM
Dragon 324 has a druid item- Skin of Kaletor. 12,000 gp. Slightly rotting, it confers a -6 on all cha based checks, and on wild empathy checks, but you're a druid so it's not like you give a crap. It also gives you +4 wildshaping levels, or lets a non-wildshaping character wildshape as a 4th level druid 1/day.

So you can't actually wildshape? I mean Druids only get Wildshape at level 5 (I am pretty sure it means that you can only select shapes with up to 4 HD)

The item reads (after the junk about -6 on cha stuff):


When wearing a Skin of Kaletor, a druid can use the wild shape ability as if he were four levels higher than his current druid level. Additionally, any non-druid who wears the cloak can use the wild shape ability once per day as a 4h level druid.

Faint transmutation, CL 4th, craft wondrous item, creator must be a druid, price 12,000 gp, weight 10 lbs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 26, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
It's Dragon.

nuff said.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 26, 2012, 11:09:36 PM
Dragon 349 ACFs


Barbarian:

City Brawler

Level: 1st
Replaces: If you choose this ability you do not gain proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, or shields.
Benefit: you gain improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat, as well as the effects (but not the feats themselves) of the two-weapon fighting feat when fighting unarmed.

At 6th level you gain the effects of improved two-weapon fighting when fighting unarmed, and at 11th level you gain the effects of greater two-weapon fighting when fighting unarmed.

Additionally, you only take a -2 penalty when using improvised weapons (instead of the usual -4 penalty)

(Eh. could be interesting thematically, but there are better ways to be a brawler. Still, the free TWF effect isn't too bad)

Dashing Step

Level: 3rd
Replaces: Trap Sense.
Benefit: You do not take a -2 penalty to AC when charging, and you add one-third of your barbarian level to your AC against AoO's when charging.


(ergmagerd charging.... no, this sucks)


Devil's Luck

Level: 6th
Replaces: Damage Reduction (I'd assume it means the barbarian damage reduction, but it just says 'you do not gain damage reduction')
Benefit: You apply the number of points of damage reduction you would otherwise gain (from any source? Doesn't say) as a luck bonus on all saving throws.


(that's... grammar inadequacies aside, that's actually pretty nifty)


Fearsome Gaze

Level: 7
Replaces: Indomitable Will (and your trap sense ability goes down by 1)
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to intimidate checks, and you can use your strength instead of charisma as your key intimidate ability score. You and your target must be within 60 ft and must be able to see eachother.


(If you're going for an intimidatomancer you're probably never going to make it to barb level 7. Still, for a straight barb it's not a terrible opotion, certainly)


Relentless Smash

Level: 20th
Replaces: Mighty Rage
Benefit: If you make a successful crit agianst an opponent or strike him at least three times in the same round your opponent is stunned for 1d3 rounds. Furthermore if you opponent is of your size or smaller, he must make a DC 10+total damage dealt this round to him fort save or be knocked prone.

(Not bad. A little situational (isn't it always?) but definitely a neat ability)


Unshakable
Level: 5th
Replaces: Improved Uncanny Dodge
Benefit: You are immune to fear effects.



Paladin ACFs


Angel's Sight

Level: 3rd
Replaces: Divine Health
Benefit: gain darkvision 60 ft and low-light vision.

(Yeah... no. I'd rather have divine health. I can buy darkvision for pretty cheap, but health? Notsomuch)


Aura of Banishment

Level: 6th
Replaces: Remove Disease.
Benefit: An aura of banishment surrounds you out to 30 ft. Only evil outsiders can feel the aura and suffer from its effects. No evil outsider with fewer HD than your paladin level can be summoned into this area, nor can any such creatures use summoning or teleporting effects.

In addition, the aura grants you a +2 to intimidate vs evil outsiders.


(Eh.... remove disease can be a deadweight, sure, but I think this is a bit too situational to be of real use. If you're in a planar campaign though, definitely something to look at)


Aura of Sanctity

Level: 4th
Replaces: Turn Undead
Benefit: Choose one of the following effects. Compulsion (including possession), death effects, petrification. You are immune to that effect. Allies within your aura of courage gain a +4 bonus on saves vs your chosen effect.

(Neat. Potentially very good, especially if you aren't aiming for DMM or fighting undead. Or if you're going to lose turning anyways, like being a bone knight)


Gaze of Truth

Replace detect evil with discern lies 1+cha mod/day for 1 round per paladin level per use. Add discern lies to your spells known.


(Eh, could be great in an intrigue campaign)

Hunter of Fiends

Level: 1st
Replaces: Smite Evil and Knowledge (royalty and  nobility) as a class skill.
Benefit: Gain outsider (evil) as a favoured enemy, except the bonus equals half your paladin level (minimum +1). You also gain track as a bonus feat and survival and knowledge (the planes) as class skills.


(Note: At 10th level a paladin with this feature would have +5 to bluff, listen, sense motive, spot, and survival vs evil outsiders, and a +5 on weapon damage rolls vs those creatures. This would be +10 at level 20. That's pretty cool actually.)


Smiting Arrow

Level: 1st
Replaces: Proficiency with heavy armor and shields
Benefit: You gain the ability to smite evil with a ranged attack up to 30 feet.

(I'd assume this would work with other paladin variants, substituting their various smite effects. Regardless it's a nice feature if you're aiming for some sort of dextrous bow paladin)



Sword of Celestia (No pony jokes please)

Level: 5th
Replaces: Paladin Special Mount ability.
Benefit: Choose a specific kind of weapon (ie: longsword, longbow, rapier- that sort of thing) a Powerful Good Outsider crafts a weapon of this kind for you. The Smith requires you give the weapon a name. You can summon the weapon to your hand or return it to its resting place in the celestial forges as a free action, and you can call it to your hand even if it's not in its resting place (such as if you have been disarmed)

You may call this waepon a number of times per day equal to 1 + your wisdom modifier (minimum 1/day). Whatever its kind, the weapon is of intricate and unearthly beauty, although you are bound by oath never to sell or give the weapon to any other creature (even to loan it to a friend). The weapon is a +1 weapon of its kind at 4th level, +2 at 10th, and at 15th it becomes a +2 holy weapon, and a +2 holy lawful weapon at 20. It overcomes damage reduction as if it were good aligned, and cure spells and other healing magic repair damage to it as if it were a living creature. you may expend gold and xp to enhance the weapon as if you had the craft magic arms and armor feat (on top of what the weapon is through this ability).

If the weapon is ever destroyed, a different celetial weaponsmith crafts you a new weapon, presenting it to you a year and a day after your previous weapon was destroyed. You can choose the same or a new kind of weapon.


(Note: Since you can use healing magic on it, you could probably use curative magic to bring it back from the dead if someone sunders it)

(This is actually pretty badass for a non-mounted paladin, and definitely very thematic.)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 27, 2012, 12:02:20 AM
Dragon 355 has a Shifter monk ACF/style.

1st level feat: Fear No binds.  No penalty on attack rolls in a grapple, may attack while bound with something non-magical, no penalties on attack rolls or to Dexterity while Entangled, and you if you beat the strength check against someone using a net on you, you get to move them around instead.

2nd level: Beast Strike.  When making an unarmed strike or grapple check, add claw or slam damage on top of unarmed/grapple damage.

6th level: Disruptive Strike:  Expend a daily use of Stunning Fist to force a shapechanger to revert to its natural form.

6th level bonus ability:  You may make a flurry of blows at the end of a successful charge.  (Prereqs: Jump 9 ranks, Two-Weapon Fighting)

I particularly like that last ability as well as the Beast Strike feat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 27, 2012, 01:41:48 AM
There's a monk style that gives shield proficiency in a dragon mag
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 27, 2012, 02:13:01 AM
Which issue? What's the tradeoff?


Anyway, just reading through issue 350. Worghests. For LA+2 they're not bad. They can assume the shape of a wolf, and can qualify for feats that require wildshape. They're pretty cool looking too.

It has some other planetouched LA+1 versions of the core races (elf, dwarf, halfling respectively).


It also has some new soulmelds (and binds) for totemist.


One has a heart bind that turns you into a swarm (subtype).

Alas, it specifies you're a swarm of your size (ie: medium), so you don't gain the total immunity to weapon damage. Still it's pretty cool for a relatively easily accessible method.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 27, 2012, 02:39:58 AM
I'll find it tomorrow for you
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kerrus on August 27, 2012, 03:14:49 AM
Thanks. It sounds pretty neat, given the normal anti-shield-ness of the monk.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 27, 2012, 07:51:19 AM
The City Brawler barbarian is great for getting into Black Blood Cultist.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 27, 2012, 07:55:25 AM
Alright, back to the intent of the thread...

I just found Train Animal; it takes 10 minutes to cast, and teaches an animal that you touch up to 5 tricks of your choice.

The animal knows those tricks for an hour.

Now, here's the thing; while the normal DC for a Handle Animal check "pushing" an animal is 25, telling it to do a trick it knows is only a DC 10.

So if you can quicken this to a really short casting time, and dip 3 levels of Duskblade...

You can punch animals into obedience; not powerful, but boy is it fun.

Though you could, if you really felt like it, cast an Earthbound Train Animal to train basic animals how to attack things. Or whatever.
Dip a level of Commoner for Chicken Infested, and then just chain-spell pucnh cuckoo swarms for your fights...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 11:07:00 AM
Sword of Celestia (No pony jokes please)
Level: 5th
Replaces: Paladin Special Mount ability.
Benefit: Choose a specific kind of weapon (ie: longsword, longbow, rapier- that sort of thing) a Powerful Good Outsider crafts a weapon of this kind for you.

... You know, with either my or SirP's class fix to Paladin, I would so play that.

My chosen weapon would be a Keyblade.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 11:26:31 AM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Nope. All of my assertions are backed up with fact. You, my friend, are the one with absurd at best ideas. Like thinking Death Delvers and Blood Magi are, in any way, good. Rebuke and crap casting, or loss of, what, five levels, are good in your book? Yeah, my point exactly. They are, in no way possible, anything resembling good. What, next are you going to talk about qualifying for whatchamacallit-theurge-thingy Lyrist with a Ring of Evasion?

First of all, I'm not your friend or 'bro', so don't ever call me that. You use them improperly with people here.
Whoa! Chill out, bro.
Quote
As for the rest of it... Obviously, we both were mistaken as to what the other was talking about in post #101. I thought you were talking about alignment, while it seems you're talking about power level.
Pro tip: Good is Good, good is good.
Quote
My ideas are just fine and work, except for my thoughts on the type pyramid crap. Which i admit to being wrong about now. At least I have the balls to do so, when I know I wrong. Not just argue with nearly no rules until you're hated just because you don't want to be wrong.
Again, chill out, bro. No, sorry to break it to you, but you really, really aren't. I argue based on pure fact. Not my fault you like to dismiss game rules. It doesn't matter if I have "Nearly no" rules behind it, as you claim totally incorrectly, if my rules are correct. Something you should learn from. Not my fault you're just not very good at this.

On a more on-topic note, a large number of totemist NAs are incompatible with Soul Eater's negative level ability. But, really, the wording of that ability is atrocious enough it doesn't really matter.

And, I assume everyone knows this already, but since I haven't seen it used here, might as well share it; You can take flaws whenever the hell you want, as long as it's during character. Nifty for prereqs and the like, for earlier entry or just earlier access to feats.

Oh, and the Soulknife's Knife to the Soul ability doesn't work. At all. As in, it does nothing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 11:34:23 AM
*noise*
Oh, and the Soulknife's Knife to the Soul ability doesn't work. At all. As in, it does nothing.

I'm curious, explain.

Also, the Ancestral Relic feat does nothing as written. Not a damn thing. You still spend all the money, and still have to wait around just as long.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 12:00:18 PM
*noise*
Oh, and the Soulknife's Knife to the Soul ability doesn't work. At all. As in, it does nothing.
I'm curious, explain.
It doesn't give a target. You deal ability damage to nothing. It's just awfully worded.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 12:05:52 PM
*noise*
Oh, and the Soulknife's Knife to the Soul ability doesn't work. At all. As in, it does nothing.
I'm curious, explain.
It doesn't give a target. You deal ability damage to nothing. It's just awfully worded.

Ambush feats don't specify a target either, because they augment Sneak Attack.
Knife to the soul states:
Quote
when a soulknife executes a psychic strike, he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage

Thus the target is the person affected is the one hit by your Psychic Strike.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
*noise*
Oh, and the Soulknife's Knife to the Soul ability doesn't work. At all. As in, it does nothing.
I'm curious, explain.
It doesn't give a target. You deal ability damage to nothing. It's just awfully worded.
Ambush feats don't specify a target either, because they augment Sneak Attack.
Knife to the soul states:
Quote
when a soulknife executes a psychic strike, he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage

Thus the target is the person affected is the one hit by your Psychic Strike.
You missed part:
Quote
For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses.
Once again, he gives up dice to deal damage to an ability score of an unspecified target. Since there's no target, it can't work. It does not say the Psychic Strike target. By strict RAW, it doesn't work, but, by strict RAW, Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore ALL AC bonuses period, and lets you stack Psionic Lion's Charge, so meh.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 12:37:59 PM
You missed part:
Quote
For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses.
Once again, he gives up dice to deal damage to an ability score of an unspecified target. Since there's no target, it can't work. It does not say the Psychic Strike target. By strict RAW, it doesn't work,

Umm..
Quote
The soulknife decides which ability score his psychic strike damages and the division of ability damage and extra dice of damage when he imbues his mind blade with the psychic strike energy

Thus, according to RAW, when you do the imbuing, you choose to do 2 dice of damage, and one Charisma damage with the charge you're imbuing, then you hit something. That something is the target of the hit that Psychic Strike is "riding on".

Quote
but, by strict RAW, Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore ALL AC bonuses period, and lets you stack Psionic Lion's Charge, so meh.
:lmao! Never noticed that before.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 12:57:35 PM
You missed part:
Quote
For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses.
Once again, he gives up dice to deal damage to an ability score of an unspecified target. Since there's no target, it can't work. It does not say the Psychic Strike target. By strict RAW, it doesn't work,

Umm..
Quote
The soulknife decides which ability score his psychic strike damages and the division of ability damage and extra dice of damage when he imbues his mind blade with the psychic strike energy

Thus, according to RAW, when you do the imbuing, you choose to do 2 dice of damage, and one Charisma damage with the charge you're imbuing, then you hit something. That something is the target of the hit that Psychic Strike is "riding on".
Incorrect. You sacrifice extra damage dice to deal ability damage. It does not specify that it is riding on the Psychic Strike, therefore it isn't, therefore it is doing ability damage to no target. So, you deal ability damage to nothing. So, you deal no ability damage, so Knife to the Soul does nothing.
Quote
Quote
but, by strict RAW, Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore ALL AC bonuses period, and lets you stack Psionic Lion's Charge, so meh.
:lmao! Never noticed that before.
Which one?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 01:27:16 PM
Quote
but, by strict RAW, Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore ALL AC bonuses period, and lets you stack Psionic Lion's Charge, so meh.
I disagree, but I've said all I intend to, so I'm dropping it.
Quote
Quote
:lmao! Never noticed that before.
Which one?
Neither, honestly, but the Imp. Precise Shot is the funnier of the two.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 27, 2012, 01:59:32 PM
Lol, you never know with him... He's got some strange ideas ;)
Nope. All of my assertions are backed up with fact. You, my friend, are the one with absurd at best ideas. Like thinking Death Delvers and Blood Magi are, in any way, good. Rebuke and crap casting, or loss of, what, five levels, are good in your book? Yeah, my point exactly. They are, in no way possible, anything resembling good. What, next are you going to talk about qualifying for whatchamacallit-theurge-thingy Lyrist with a Ring of Evasion?

First of all, I'm not your friend or 'bro', so don't ever call me that. You use them improperly with people here.
Whoa! Chill out, bro.
Quote
As for the rest of it... Obviously, we both were mistaken as to what the other was talking about in post #101. I thought you were talking about alignment, while it seems you're talking about power level.
Pro tip: Good is Good, good is good.
Quote
My ideas are just fine and work, except for my thoughts on the type pyramid crap. Which i admit to being wrong about now. At least I have the balls to do so, when I know I wrong. Not just argue with nearly no rules until you're hated just because you don't want to be wrong.
Again, chill out, bro. No, sorry to break it to you, but you really, really aren't. I argue based on pure fact. Not my fault you like to dismiss game rules. It doesn't matter if I have "Nearly no" rules behind it, as you claim totally incorrectly, if my rules are correct. Something you should learn from. Not my fault you're just not very good at this.

i'm going to tell you one more time, please do not call me "bro" or "friend" or anything similar to that.



also i agree that Improved Precise Shot implies cover AC bonuses in the text, since there are varying degees of cover.

as for Knife to the Soul, it affects who or whatever is getting hit by the psychic strike... it says so right in the being as ariasderros quoted, please go back a reread that AND the actual ability.

also i am not going to argue with you on either since you seem to get off on this and i'm starting to feel like you are a troll. goodbye.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 02:18:18 PM
also i agree that Improved Precise Shot implies cover AC bonuses in the text, since there are varying degees of cover.

Exactly the point of what was stated. Imply.

But what it states is:
Quote from: SRD link=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedPreciseShot
Benefit
Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks.

Now the "less than" part doesn't say "other than", which wold really make it read only as broken, but even as-is the text can be used as a RAW argument that it does ignore any AC bonus (though not penalties).

This would only fly in the "YBIYBI" sub-forum, but it's still kinda neat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 02:25:19 PM
i'm going to tell you one more time, please do not call me "bro" or "friend" or anything similar to that.
Dude, chill out. Seriously.
Quote
also i agree that Improved Precise Shot implies cover AC bonuses in the text, since there are varying degees of cover.
Actually, it ignores all AC bonuses, since they are, by definition, less than Total Cover, given that you aren't allowed to make an attack against something with Total Cover.
Quote
as for Knife to the Soul, it affects who or whatever is getting hit by the psychic strike... it says so right in the being as ariasderros quoted, please go back a reread that AND the actual ability.
Again, incorrect. It gives a condition to activate the ability, when you make a Psychic Strike. It never states that it affects the target of the Psychic Strike. Try again.
Quote
also i am not going to argue with you on either since you seem to get off on this and i'm starting to feel like you are a troll. goodbye.
So then what was this post. Responding to a post, and then claiming the poster is a troll and declaring your intent to stop after the post is pretty much the perfect example of passive-aggressive trolling.

So, I can either assume you are a troll yourself, or you simply feel the need to prove yourself somehow superior to someone who has proven you wrong. Either way, it's funny in a depressing sort of way, so please, carry on.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on August 27, 2012, 02:55:09 PM
I disagree, but I've said all I intend to, so I'm dropping it.

Again, incorrect. It gives a condition to activate the ability, when you make a Psychic Strike. It never states that it affects the target of the Psychic Strike. Try again.

/sigh.

Here is the point: Go read Psychic Strike.
The target is your own mind blade. < You see that punctuation mark, that's a freaking period.
You coat the blade with extra energy, then, when you hit someone, that energy discharges. Psychic Strike normally just deals extra damage.
Knife to the Soul allows you to change how you charge it so that you can deal a different type of damage. It affects the Psychic Strike ability, which has no target, it is a "charging mah lazorz" ability, and KttS changes what you are charging it to do.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 27, 2012, 03:23:01 PM
Which issue? What's the tradeoff?

its the Krabi-krabong Monk in #330

its just replacing weapons.... same everything else
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 03:26:49 PM
I disagree, but I've said all I intend to, so I'm dropping it.

Again, incorrect. It gives a condition to activate the ability, when you make a Psychic Strike. It never states that it affects the target of the Psychic Strike. Try again.

/sigh.

Here is the point: Go read Psychic Strike.
The target is your own mind blade. < You see that punctuation mark, that's a freaking period.
You coat the blade with extra energy, then, when you hit someone, that energy discharges. Psychic Strike normally just deals extra damage.
Knife to the Soul allows you to change how you charge it so that you can deal a different type of damage. It affects the Psychic Strike ability, which has no target, it is a "charging mah lazorz" ability, and KttS changes what you are charging it to do.
While that is obviously the intent, that's not what the effect says. It says, when he executes a psychic strike(Condition), he  he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage. For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses(Effect). A soulknife can combine extra dice of damage and ability damage in any combination.

Note that the target is unspecified. Now, it obviously means that he can do stat damage to the target of the Psychic Strike. That's just simply not what it says. It does not say that the target of the psychic strike is the target, so, by the rules as written, it does not have a target. It simply does not work.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 27, 2012, 04:12:11 PM
Look, this isn't difficult, and your own arguments keep ignoring the point. It's a damage replacer. When you use psychic strike, the damage is changed. The target is whoever was effected by the psychic strike, because it happens when you use psychic strike (requiring a target), and then changes the damage dealt by that strike.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Pencil on August 27, 2012, 04:17:55 PM
Well it does substitute the dmg but still why do you think the new dmg is to your target and not to yourself?With the given wording you may as well dmg yourself with the attack.
Both interpretations are possible imo.One reading the word"substitute" in a way that it implies that the dmg is upon your target and one that reads "substitute " in a way that doe not imply the same target.A little bit confusing but still.
I don`t think just because you replace x with y it in no way means all things that are true for x(you deal dmg to the target of your attack) also apply to y.If you get what I am trying to say.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 27, 2012, 05:50:08 PM
Overly complicated interpretation is overly complicated. The simplest reading makes the target entirely irrelevant, because it's not directed at a target, it's directed at the psychic strike ability. It modifies psychic strike, it doesn't do something else when you activate psychic strike.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 27, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
It's also entirely irrelevant since no one takes 13 levels of soulknife.  Not even carnivore, he caps at 12.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Pencil on August 27, 2012, 06:03:51 PM
It doesn`t matter whether the ability is directed at the strike.It says that when you use the ability you can substitute dmg of the strike.Which again boils down to a semantic question of the word "substitute".
A point could be made that the ability is there to dmg the wielder of the weapon.Just because a normal attack would do dmg to the target of the attack a substituted attack would not necessarily need to deal dmg to the target.It is a stupid interpretation but it is possible.

I just wanted to say that it is not that easily dismissed as you guys are trying to and that a valid argument can be made against your interpretation.Many rules discussions about wording and such are semantic nature thats why most are fruitless.No front intended.And in end effect it doesnt really matter but one can at least accept that there could be made a point against the wording and that chtlulhu might at least have a point here.Whether you agree with it is something else.

It's also entirely irrelevant since no one takes 13 levels of soulknife.  Not even carnivore, he caps at 12.

Depending on this interpretation everything known about the soulknife can change and he will be a valid T3.Every melee will want a 13 level dip.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 27, 2012, 06:35:03 PM
Taking the more convoluted and less obvious interpretation is not a "valid point" any more than it is good optimization. In fact, it's more or less the very definition of munchkin behavior.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Pencil on August 27, 2012, 07:03:23 PM
Taking the more convoluted and less obvious interpretation is not a "valid point" any more than it is good optimization. In fact, it's more or less the very definition of munchkin behavior.

Taking the less obvious interpretation has nothing to do with whether it is right or wrong.Neither is whether it is convoluted or not.
By the way.This was not an attempt to bring this into any game,even just theoretically, so this has nothing to do with optimizing at all.And thinking about how it could be interpreted has nothing to do with munchkinizing at all.It is more munchkinizing to automatically assume one is right because one is closer to the RAI.
But lets just stop here.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cyclone Joker on August 27, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
Okay, funnest find of all time, I think. I call it Pun-Pun in a can (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030727a). Single worst designed thing I've seen since Illithid Savant.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on August 27, 2012, 08:19:25 PM
Okay, funnest find of all time, I think. I call it Pun-Pun in a can (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030727a). Single worst designed thing I've seen since Illithid Savant.
That...is beautiful. And begging for some Alter Self Elan abuse.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Scottzar on August 27, 2012, 08:29:58 PM
From what I read of KttS, it functions, but based off of any bonus dice, which opens up psionic shot/sneak attack abuse for immense amounts for free ability damage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 27, 2012, 08:42:23 PM
Okay, funnest find of all time, I think. I call it Pun-Pun in a can (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030727a). Single worst designed thing I've seen since Illithid Savant.
That...is beautiful. And begging for some Alter Self Elan abuse.

Here is the thread I started on Mindstealer Drones back on BG. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10992.0)

Might be good to harvest.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 27, 2012, 10:14:06 PM
Pun-Pun, Mindstealer Drone, Illithid Savant, Greater Doppleganger, and so on. They are just one big batch of creatures that say the StP Erudite isn't good enough.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on August 27, 2012, 10:16:02 PM
I find it somewhat amusing that the City Brawler Barbarian ACF is tailor made for entry into fist of the forest.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 27, 2012, 11:27:25 PM
From Lost Empires of Faerun:

Spell Reprieve
Item Reprieve
Arcane Transfiguration

Spell Reprieve allows a specialist wizard to learn a spell from a prohibited school.  Item reprieve allows him to use spell completion and trigger items from the school of the spell chosen with Spell Reprieve.  Arcane Transfiguration allows learning and casting from a prohibited school as if it weren't prohibited.

In short, they felt a three feat chain tax would help with specializing.  I think it's rather amusing to be honest.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: rot42 on August 28, 2012, 03:19:23 AM
Swift Ready: second level spell in The Forge of War that lets you enact a Sailor Moon transformation sequence summon your combat equipment from nearby. A wand of this fills much the same niche as a Ring of Arming or the Called armor enchantment, but is much less horribly overpriced.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TiaC on August 28, 2012, 08:01:13 AM
Skillful moment: DR350 p.78
1st level bard, sorc/wiz spell.
Lets you take 20 on a chosen skill the next round. However the important part is that it lets you do this as a single standard action. Am I right that this allows you to do things like disguise yourself in one round?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 28, 2012, 12:26:30 PM
Skillful moment: DR350 p.78
1st level bard, sorc/wiz spell.
Lets you take 20 on a chosen skill the next round. However the important part is that it lets you do this as a single standard action. Am I right that this allows you to do things like disguise yourself in one round?
idk. Dragon is full of badly written material by authors who have never played D&D. 'Taking 20' as a single standard action is probably as broke as it sounds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 28, 2012, 12:37:48 PM
Swift Ready: second level spell in The Forge of War that lets you enact a Sailor Moon transformation sequence summon your combat equipment from nearby. A wand of this fills much the same niche as a Ring of Arming or the Called armor enchantment, but is much less horribly overpriced.
A Ring of Arming only costs 5000 gp. A wand of a 2nd level spell costs 4000, and has 50 charges. So I'm not so sure the ring is "horribly overpriced" compared to this.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 28, 2012, 12:56:59 PM
Skillful moment: DR350 p.78
1st level bard, sorc/wiz spell.
Lets you take 20 on a chosen skill the next round. However the important part is that it lets you do this as a single standard action. Am I right that this allows you to do things like disguise yourself in one round?
idk. Dragon is full of badly written material by authors who have never played D&D. 'Taking 20' as a single standard action is probably as broke as it sounds.

Or take 20 crafting an item as a standard action to make a full plate?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TiaC on August 28, 2012, 01:05:50 PM
Take Craft(Masonry) and do battlefield control the hard way!
"Wall of stone?! Back in my day we had to build our own walls, and we had to do it with snow up to our eyebrows without any of these fancy bonus spells either!"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 28, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Skillful moment: DR350 p.78
1st level bard, sorc/wiz spell.
Lets you take 20 on a chosen skill the next round. However the important part is that it lets you do this as a single standard action. Am I right that this allows you to do things like disguise yourself in one round?
idk. Dragon is full of badly written material by authors who have never played D&D. 'Taking 20' as a single standard action is probably as broke as it sounds.

Or take 20 crafting an item as a standard action to make a castle?
fify.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 28, 2012, 03:20:20 PM
Screw it, in my next E6 Game, that spell will be a 1/day Spell Like ability that can be taken by anyone at 6th level, as long as they can't cast spells.

You could use it essentially as a Disintegrate spell, if you the Profession (Miner) ranks.

Or to out-heal the cleric by performing long-term care as a Standard action.

"Huh, why do I feel so... rested?"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on August 28, 2012, 03:32:01 PM
Skill checks don't work like that. For Craft, you still only get 1 week's worth of work, since that's what one check represents. That's only result*DC in sp of goods, so no full-plate in a standard action unless you can get a check result of ~123 (after voluntary DC increases). Profession (miner) has its own nuances about how much work you get per check, although I think you get around a 10' cube so it's comparable. Heal only improves the rate at which you recover normally, and normally you recover exactly 0 hp in one round.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on August 28, 2012, 03:41:29 PM
Reminds me of one anime character with carpenter skill, who charged up to a giant and managed to punch him in the face by building a staircase as he went... :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 28, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Reminds me of one anime character with carpenter skill, who charged up to a giant and managed to punch him in the face by building a staircase as he went... :P

I need to see what this is from. Seriously, where is it from.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 28, 2012, 05:03:57 PM
Hmm, idk. Don't recall anything like that in FMA which seriously sounds like something Edward would do.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 28, 2012, 05:26:54 PM
 :lmao
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on August 29, 2012, 10:32:03 AM
FC2 page 108 gives outsiders alternative SLAs.  Malconvokers just got more flexible. xD
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on August 29, 2012, 01:47:25 PM
Oh, on that subject...

Lichfiends are an alternate Lich template from the Libris Mortis; they replace the 12th level spellcaster requirement with CL 12 Spell-like abilities, and have better DR than standard liches (they get 15/Silver and Good, I believe). You do have to be an Outsider if I remember correctly, though.

Nice for Warlocks and the like, perhaps?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 29, 2012, 02:02:29 PM
Monsters of Faerun has a bunch of variants for liches and ghosts... including death touch 1/day, death gaze at will, deathsong 1/day (Will save vs. panic, plus x3 damage during duration to anything)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TiaC on September 01, 2012, 04:07:14 AM
From dragon 317, the Truename feat.
For 5000gp and 200XP/HD you get:
•Double spellcasting ability to DCs
•+Spellcasting ability to CL checks for overcoming SR and dispel checks
•+Spellcasting ability to resist counterspells and they must make the check even if they are using the same spell.
•Self-crafted spell completion items function as if cast by their maker when he uses them (CL and DC are full at no greater cost)
•Targeted dispels against items both crafted and used by the trunamed are against a DC 11+CL+Ability mod

If someone hears you use it they get a spellcraft/intelligence check to learn it at DC 10+CL+Ability mod +5 for every time you've changed truenames. Changing costs 5000gp +(200XP/HD since last change). If they can see but not hear they need a DC 25 spot first.
You also have a fetish, this is an object that needs to remain in your possession(although not necessarily on you).

Also, Masterpiece Performances from DR 301, the best are:
Kurghra's Sash, for 8,500gp and 8 ranks invested in it you get a cloak of resistance +4 and it increases your inspire courage base bonus by +2.
The Red Gates, for 1000gp and 1 rank invested in it inspire courage lingers for 10 rounds rather than 5.
Battle hymn of the eastern fjords, for 8,400gp and 8 ranks invested in it Inspire greatness gives an additional 2HD, +1 to attacks and +2 to fort.
The trials of Ramir, for 3,000gp and 3 ranks invested in it you add three targets to inspire greatness.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 04, 2012, 11:51:51 AM
Shadow Guardians (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-destiny--81/shadow-guardians--3046/) + Chain Spell (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/chain-spell--314/) Greater Humanoid Essence (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6373) + Bardic Music (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8334.0)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 04, 2012, 12:07:05 PM
Shadow Guardians (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-destiny--81/shadow-guardians--3046/) + Chain Spell (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/chain-spell--314/) Greater Humanoid Essence (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6373) + Bardic Music (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8334.0)
So a 5th level spell, plus a Chained 7th level spell, to make a number of mooks (4 HD constructs) equal to your CL which last for 1 hr/lvl, and then buff them with bardic music? Seems like a lot of investment for a mediocre return.  :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 04, 2012, 12:11:02 PM
Dragonfire Inspiration.

Not a whole lot of effort for an instant army with lots of crazy damage that doesn't require any investment of money on your part.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on September 04, 2012, 12:13:44 PM
Dragonfire Inspiration.

Not a whole lot of effort for an instant army with lots of crazy damage that doesn't require any investment of money on your part.

*Makes rapid notes

Very good one there SorO
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 04, 2012, 12:18:11 PM
Dragonfire Inspiration.

Not a whole lot of effort for an instant army with lots of crazy damage that doesn't require any investment of money on your part.

*Makes rapid notes

Very good one there SorO
Do it as an Artificer 2 levels earlier and it's better.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 06, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
Shadow Guardians (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-destiny--81/shadow-guardians--3046/) + Chain Spell (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/chain-spell--314/) Greater Humanoid Essence (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6373) + Bardic Music (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8334.0)
Alternatively, Greater Humanoid Essence allows you to Necrotic Tumor elementals. Among other things, this grants the ability to perfectly control any elemental vessel (Eberron) or control other obscene things like Elemental Weirds and the like.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 06, 2012, 08:54:13 AM
Hah that's crazy  :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on September 06, 2012, 11:44:04 AM
Alternatively, Greater Humanoid Essence allows you to Necrotic Tumor elementals.
The spell target entry specifically states "Construct touched" and the spell description specifically mentions several times what happens to a construct when affected by this spell.  How are you applying it to elementals?  Or am I missing a step along the way?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 06, 2012, 12:04:15 PM
There's a spell that grants elementals the construct type temporarily, iirc.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 06, 2012, 12:31:18 PM
Yeah Construct Essence, same book, almost same page.

Both contain text they counter each other, so no way to combine them.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 06, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
Yeah Construct Essence, same book, almost same page.

Both contain text they counter each other, so no way to combine them.
Damn, forgot that. Oh well :(
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 08, 2012, 10:21:02 PM
This isn't a new find but people never seem to use it: Entomanothropes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)) are amazing. They get: LA 2 without having to deal with control shape at all. They all have immunity to mind-affecting as an Extraordinary ability as well as a few more benefits.

Also, were octopusses are fantastic. Check out their entry in the best lycanthrope animals and build thread (note:with a ring of feather fall they can fly).

EDIT: the magelord prestige class can be made half salvageble with the illusion mastery variant for specialist wizards and both the class and the variant can be found online by googling (Make the spell level requirement for the magelord 4th instead of 5th level and it could actually be okay).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 13, 2012, 12:36:30 AM
Also, were octopusses are fantastic. Check out their entry in the best lycanthrope animals and build thread (note:with a ring of feather fall they can fly).

How can they fly?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on September 13, 2012, 12:38:43 AM
Also, were octopusses are fantastic. Check out their entry in the best lycanthrope animals and build thread (note:with a ring of feather fall they can fly).

How can they fly?
Ink jetpack?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 13, 2012, 01:00:17 AM
That's not flying... That's gliding  ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on September 13, 2012, 01:02:05 AM
No, that's FALLING!

With STYLE!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 13, 2012, 01:03:52 AM
That's not flying... That's gliding  ;)

No, it's falling with style

Edit:  Gah!  Too slow!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 13, 2012, 01:05:19 AM
Lol at both of you ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 13, 2012, 02:37:21 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 07:37:55 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 13, 2012, 07:43:22 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Ground still has an AC of 5, which is low enough that even the Monk would hit it reliably.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 07:51:35 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Ground still has an AC of 5, which is low enough that even the Monk would hit it reliably.

 :pout
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on September 13, 2012, 10:27:56 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Ground still has an AC of 5, which is low enough that even the Monk would hit it reliably.
Assume a build optimized for missing: BAB 0, strength 1 (through template shenanigans), flurry of blows and two-weapon fighting (without the feat, of course), for a total attack mod of -11
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 10:40:54 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Ground still has an AC of 5, which is low enough that even the Monk would hit it reliably.
Assume a build optimized for missing: BAB 0, strength 1 (through template shenanigans), flurry of blows and two-weapon fighting (without the feat, of course), for a total attack mod of -11

Fighting Defensively gives another -4.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on September 13, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
Continuously missing the ground also works.

Aha!  We've figured out how to give flight to a monk.  Simply use Flurry of Blows against the ground!
Ground still has an AC of 5, which is low enough that even the Monk would hit it reliably.
Assume a build optimized for missing: BAB 0, strength 1 (through template shenanigans), flurry of blows and two-weapon fighting (without the feat, of course), for a total attack mod of -11

Fighting Defensively gives another -4.
And you can take Noncombatant for another -2.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 10:52:51 AM
That'd do it.  Now the flying monk can only fall 5% of the time!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 13, 2012, 01:04:58 PM
Sounds like you're on track (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_8-Bit_Theater_characters#Black_Belt).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 13, 2012, 01:10:43 PM
Continuously missing the ground also works.
It's "throwing yourself at the ground and missing".
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 02:07:20 PM
Continuously missing the ground also works.
It's "throwing yourself at the ground and missing".

A monk can use any part of his body for an unarmed strike.  Including the whole thing.  But if necessary, make him large size and give him Fling Ally, since you're your own ally.  And battle jump & pounce.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 13, 2012, 02:09:42 PM
Continuously missing the ground also works.
It's "throwing yourself at the ground and missing".

A monk can use any part of his body for an unarmed strike.  Including the whole thing.  But if necessary, make him large size and give him Fling Ally, since you're your own ally.  And battle jump & pounce.
Life, the Universe, and Everything, Chapter 2, p. 11
Quote
"The Guide says that there is an art to flying," said Ford, "or rather a knack.  The knack likes in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."  He smiled weakly.  He pointed at the knees of his trousers and held his arms up to show the elbows.  They were all torn and worn through.

"I haven't done very well so far," he said.  He stuck out his hand.  "I'm very glad to see you again, Arthur," he added.
I was just correcting the quote/reference. :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 13, 2012, 02:11:39 PM
Oh, I know.  I was making sure that we dotted all our t's.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: kitep on September 13, 2012, 03:14:10 PM
IIRC, it's a concentration check, not an attack roll.  You have to get distracted right before you hit the ground.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 23, 2012, 06:41:12 PM
The Talenta Sharrash from Ebberon Campaign Setting is actually really good. It's an exotic weapon with 1d10 damage, 19-20/x4 critting, reach, and trip plus characters native to the Talenta Plains treat it as a martial weapon

The tentacle whip from magic of ebberon is another under utilized weapon.  Getting proficiency with it is sort of hard but there is a note stating that aberrations are automatically proficient with any weapon-like symbiont (such as the Tentacle Whip) on page 37 of magic of ebberon. This whip is: better than masterwork (that +1 bonus is not a masterwork bonus, and stacks with the bonus from enchanting), automatically a 'dancing' weapon, allows you to deliver touch spells by attacking, and gives a 15' reach to a medium creature while allowing you to attack anywhere within that reach (oh and unlike a normal whip, you do get AOO's).

Also, as a side note: is anyone else suprised at how much underutilized stuff there is out there? While I do occasionally see builds making use of them there is still a ton of great stuff out there that nobody uses.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 23, 2012, 06:42:07 PM
19-20/x4 critting
It was errata'd to 19-20/x2. Also IIRC the pic is mislabeled.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 23, 2012, 06:44:11 PM
19-20/x4 critting
It was errata'd to 19-20/x2. Also IIRC the pic is mislabeled.

Darn  :(. Ah well, it's still a good weapon.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 24, 2012, 02:39:15 AM
Unless it got errata'd, the feat Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) is a great way to enter many PRCs early, just Arcane Disciple for even easier access.

Also I noticed it says "any spell you know one level higher", that means if you know spells from another class, you can blow spell slots in one cast a different class's spells  :o


Edit: it looks like its really tough to KNOW spells of a higher level than you can normally cast. I found some feats in Races of Faërun that'd help with that. But most ways, like dread necro, you actually had to reach the right level first.

But still... 2 feats and an early entry into some PrCs, as long as they have low skill requirements
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 24, 2012, 03:24:57 AM
Unless it got errata'd, the feat Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) is a great way to enter many PRCs early, just Arcane Disciple for even easier access.

Also I noticed it says "any spell you know one level higher", that means if you know spells from another class, you can blow spell slots in one cast a different class's spells  :o


Edit: it looks like its really tough to KNOW spells of a higher level than you can normally cast. I found some feats in Races of Faërun that'd help with that. But most ways, like dread necro, you actually had to reach the right level first.

But still... 2 feats and an early entry into some PrCs, as long as they have low skill requirements

Dread Necro says "When a dread necromancer gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level given on the dread necromancer’s spell list."  Seems like it should work with Versatile Spellcaster.  VS gives access to the next level of spells, then DN says you know all the spells of that level. 
Good catch on using it to cast spells from a different list though :-)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 24, 2012, 01:08:00 PM
So a 8th level DN blows 2 4th level slots instantly knows 5th level spells temporarily?

How long does it last? Long enough to enter a PrC?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 24, 2012, 04:02:16 PM
It all goes back to what are prerequisites to you?

The effective ability to cast 2nd level spells means: I can haz cast 2nd level spell form wand!
Then yes. Versatile Spellcaster certainly is the right thing for you. Except wands do it better.

If you want the ability to cast 2nd level spells.
Then yes. Versatile Spellcaster certainly is the right thing for you. Except Spell Completion items do this too.

If you want the ability to cast 2nd level spells, as in a spellcasting trait with the ability to cast 2nd level spells.
No, you don't obtain that until later on.

Also, regardless, it's TO to say it's any spell as in Sorcerer, or Cleric, or Wizard, or Druid. Spellcasting speaks in a possessive way, when it says a spell you know (any is in the example which is in an only-sorcerer build btw) it's only speaking of the same type. Exactly like how a Specialist Wizard can't ever learn spells from a certain school, or Cleric can sacrifice a prepared spell they have, etc. These traits do not carry over into other classes, if you combine to 3rd level Sorcerer slots then you'd be allowed to cast a 4th level Sorcerer spell, not Druid or anything else you think you have.

P.S. Oh I almost forgot. To cast a 4th level spell you still need a CL of 8 or higher, Versatile Spellcaster does not overwrite the base rules on minimum caster level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on September 24, 2012, 04:19:10 PM
P.S. Oh I almost forgot. To cast a 4th level spell you still need a CL of 8 or higher, Versatile Spellcaster does not overwrite the base rules on minimum caster level.

Are you making up rules now? There is multiple classes and prestige classes that has low CL combine with higher level spells. There is multiple feats that reduces caster level. And as far as i am aware, there is no mention in any book about you not being able to cast a spell with if you have a low caster level. The only exception iv seen is if you have a CL of 0.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 24, 2012, 04:59:44 PM
For what it's worth, custserv ruled that versatile spellcaaster worked for early qualification. There should be a couple references over on the old 339 boards.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 24, 2012, 05:29:34 PM
P.S. Oh I almost forgot. To cast a 4th level spell you still need a CL of 8 or higher, Versatile Spellcaster does not overwrite the base rules on minimum caster level.

Are you making up rules now? There is multiple classes and prestige classes that has low CL combine with higher level spells. There is multiple feats that reduces caster level. And as far as i am aware, there is no mention in any book about you not being able to cast a spell with if you have a low caster level. The only exception iv seen is if you have a CL of 0.

PHB page 171 has info on CL requirements for spells, BUT we haven't said which particular spell we're talking about. so WHAT the requirement is depends on the spell. each spell has different classes (and feats, etc) for casting the spell, which in turn, has a different spell level, and therefore different CL.

so you're both kind of right :-p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 24, 2012, 06:54:10 PM
For what it's worth, custserv ruled that versatile spellcaaster worked for early qualification. There should be a couple references over on the old 339 boards.
Did they? FAQ ruled it is possible to cast spells normally you can't, but the question is solely based on metamagic usage which neither is requirements or has anything to do with Spells Known or a required Caster Level (since an empowered spell is still treated as being it's original level).

Plus you can't really claim legitimacy with Cust Service, not only because a different moron of the week answer the questions with zero consistency to previous answered ones, you do do something like
Quote
To: Me.
From: Custservice@WOTC.com
Subject: Is SorO_Lost an official rules interpreter?

Yes, obey everything SorO_Lost says, all glory to him and his hypnotoad!
I won the argument I had six months ago with this! Reposting on a new thread!

Because if it looks close enough, who the hell can say otherwise? Which who knows, that may well have been the real problem and someone somewhere is like "I was the only one hired for this and I don't remember saying anything like that".
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 24, 2012, 07:13:45 PM
That would be why I prefaced it with "for what it's worth". Some tables use custserv, some don't.. some don't even use errata or official faq, so it's largely dependent.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on September 24, 2012, 09:35:12 PM
If you ever want a 2 level dip for Evasion (say, Fochlucan Lyrist), Totemist is a surprisingly good choice. Great Raptor Mask bound to your Totem grants Evasion, and like the Giant Eagle but unlike the more common Monk and Rogue versions, doesn't have any armor or encumbrance limitations.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Dusk Eclipse on September 24, 2012, 09:48:12 PM
If you ever want a 2 level dip for Evasion (say, Fochlucan Lyrist), Totemist is a surprisingly good choice. Great Raptor Mask bound to your Totem grants Evasion, and like the Giant Eagle but unlike the more common Monk and Rogue versions, doesn't have any armor or encumbrance limitations.
you can get Evasion with two feats with Incarnate, Impulse Boots and Open Least Chakra (feet), nice option to maximize spellcasting and enter Fochlucan Lyrist with minimum CL lost.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on September 24, 2012, 10:42:20 PM
If you ever want a 2 level dip for Evasion (say, Fochlucan Lyrist), Totemist is a surprisingly good choice. Great Raptor Mask bound to your Totem grants Evasion, and like the Giant Eagle but unlike the more common Monk and Rogue versions, doesn't have any armor or encumbrance limitations.
you can get Evasion with two feats with Incarnate, Impulse Boots and Open Least Chakra (feet), nice option to maximize spellcasting and enter Fochlucan Lyrist with minimum CL lost.

Perhaps my example clouded the issue. The fun part is that you can use Great Raptor Mask's Evasion in any armor, unlike Impulse Boots which references the light armor only PHB Evasion (whichever is on page 50, but it's the same for Monks, Rogue, and Rangers).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on September 26, 2012, 09:40:31 PM
P.S. Oh I almost forgot. To cast a 4th level spell you still need a CL of 8 or higher, Versatile Spellcaster does not overwrite the base rules on minimum caster level.

Are you making up rules now? There is multiple classes and prestige classes that has low CL combine with higher level spells. There is multiple feats that reduces caster level. And as far as i am aware, there is no mention in any book about you not being able to cast a spell with if you have a low caster level. The only exception iv seen is if you have a CL of 0.

PHB page 171 has info on CL requirements for spells, BUT we haven't said which particular spell we're talking about. so WHAT the requirement is depends on the spell. each spell has different classes (and feats, etc) for casting the spell, which in turn, has a different spell level, and therefore different CL.

so you're both kind of right :-p

I just read the Caster Level paragraph on page 171. And i might be reading it wrong, but as far as i can see, all it tells you is that you cannot reduce your caster level voluntarily below minimum when casting spell. I fail to see where it makes any reference to a low caster level from any other sources.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 27, 2012, 08:21:14 AM
Sounds like selective application to me. The paragraph says you cannot cast a spell below it's required caster level and that's what you need to take away from it, even items state they use the minimum caster lower (ie lowest possible) as further proof of concept.

Now excuse me, that ASF entry only says armor and I've got to argue Shields don't have failure chances else where kthx.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 27, 2012, 02:02:38 PM
What I was trying to say is the min CL is based on the spell level, which each spell can POTENTIALLY have different spell levels due to which class you get the spell through, depending on the spell.

Example: Spell X might be a 3rd level spell for class A, or 4th level for class B, while you can also get it through domain A as a 5th level spell.

Since each way has a different spell level, each way has a different min CL. But technically they ALL are the min CL for the same spell.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 27, 2012, 02:41:03 PM
Oh I know what you're trying to say and I think Lo77o got it as well.

What he is saying is that there is no minimum CL to spell levels, because: but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question. and all references to a minimum caster level can have only one possible meaning. ~Ignore this. Currently his reason is because it's based on choice, but I'm sure his second line of defense is there is no text says I can't cast 2nd level spells as a 1st Sorcerer since their are both up the same alley. IE please give me flashing neon signs about what I can or cannot do or I will argue that I can.

I've always read that section as choose a valid number. I mean, Magical Items as an entire chapter in every single book printed certainly suggests the minimum caster level of Wish isn't -79,746, but instead you need 17 or higher (if wizard). Maybe is isn't exactly spelled out in the exact English you think it should be, but that doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 27, 2012, 02:46:21 PM
Wouldn't the implied general rule of "you must have a caster level this big to cast this spell" be trumped by the specifics of Versatile Spellcaster?  Otherwise things like Precocious Apprentice wouldn't work at all. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 27, 2012, 02:49:40 PM
Well, the lowest caster level for any Domain spell is equal to the spell level, thanks to Divine Crusader.  Archivists and Artificiers get the most use out of this fact.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 27, 2012, 02:50:29 PM
Well, the lowest caster level for any Domain spell is equal to the spell level, thanks to Divine Crusader.  Archivists and Artificiers get the most use out of this fact.
If you're going down that road, Ur-Priest says hi.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 27, 2012, 02:54:46 PM
Well, the lowest caster level for any Domain spell is equal to the spell level, thanks to Divine Crusader.  Archivists and Artificiers get the most use out of this fact.
If you're going down that road, Ur-Priest says hi.
True.  I suppose that means scrolls for any Cleric spell can be nabbed at caster level=spell level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 27, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
Wouldn't the implied general rule of "you must have a caster level this big to cast this spell" be trumped by the specifics of Versatile Spellcaster?  Otherwise things like Precocious Apprentice wouldn't work at all.
No, the Feat's rules are totally ambiguous to start with, but do make a tiny assumption which I'll cover in a second. The first obvious question you would have after reading it is do you need the ability to cast 4th level spells to do this?

The FAQ comes in and to a Metamagic based question (think an extended spell) says it's possible to cast higher than normal. However, this is a Metamagic based question. To understand what I mean, take for example an 8th level Sorcerer & Empowered Fireball. That's a 3rd level spell using a 5th level slot two 4th level slots, that deals 8d6+50% damage. Do you see the number dynamics there and where Versatile Spellcaster plays in? You can obtain CL boosts readily enough, but it's just as important as knowing a spell which tends to be the primary element discussed.


You're observation on PA is a good call out, but mindful actually doesn't support VA and opposes the FAQ ruling. See, PA calls out: Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells, you must succeed on a DC 8 caster level check to successfully cast this spell;. So in it, PA creates an exception to cast a 2nd level spell as say a 1st level character by using the provided rules.

VS on the other hand only creates an exception toward using the spell slots. And it does so in the operation that kind of assumes that you already have the higher spell level: unknown-level-sorcerer combines two 2nd level slots for a 3rd level spell they know, specific builds/combos are almost never used to this would mean the assumption is the sorcerer is of at least 6th level.

When comparing the two, you'd actually see that VS shouldn't break any sort of level cap to begin with. However, the FAQ that everyone hates for nerfing their favorite trick did broke it for power, sort of ironic I guess.


Also, helpful link here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872558/Lowest_level_versions_of_spells) (got a newer link?). Mindful, you still need some sort of access. So we can move on to talking about how you'd need a Runestaff to merge two 2nd level spells to cast Animate Dead (a typically 4th level sorcerer spell). :D
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on September 27, 2012, 06:20:59 PM
Oh I know what you're trying to say and I think Lo77o got it as well.

What he is saying is that there is no minimum CL to spell levels, because: but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question. and all references to a minimum caster level can have only one possible meaning. ~Ignore this. Currently his reason is because it's based on choice, but I'm sure his second line of defense is there is no text says I can't cast 2nd level spells as a 1st Sorcerer since their are both up the same alley. IE please give me flashing neon signs about what I can or cannot do or I will argue that I can.

I've always read that section as choose a valid number. I mean, Magical Items as an entire chapter in every single book printed certainly suggests the minimum caster level of Wish isn't -79,746, but instead you need 17 or higher (if wizard). Maybe is isn't exactly spelled out in the exact English you think it should be, but that doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

I assure you that you have no idea what i had in mind when i asked this. I find your approach to the rules regarding Caster Level both simple, logical and very much a valid interpretation.

The reason i was asking you to elaborate is that this will have consequences in the game i am playing in, and it will change some of the NPC's i am currently using.

Few examples. I have several NPC spell caster / gishes that uses the Mage Slayer line of feats. They all reduce caster level. As it was my understanding before this only had an impact on a few things such as duration and Xd6 damage and so on. And it was not an issue since my NPC's used spells mostly for instantaneous buffs or debuffs.

As it is now, none of them can cast higher then level 1 spells, since most have a CL of 1 or 2.

It opens up some fun new ways to attack spellcasters now. Hit a level 6+ wizard with a no save Herorics and give him the mageslayer feat, and you cut his two highest spell levels out under him for 10/min per CL. Same thing applies to most Big Baddies such as Balors with a lot of Sell-Like Abilities. One no save 2nd level spell, and you remove his Wish ability.

Besides the Mageslayer feat chain, there is a few other feats and traits and so on that reduces your spell level in one or more schools. And ill have to have a look out for those in the future.

On a further note, and mind you i haven't had a chance to look into this yet since i am AFB, would this have consequences for people who uses any kind of heighten to cast higher level spells early for entry into PrC's. Would that not work anymore?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 27, 2012, 08:41:32 PM
Wouldn't the implied general rule of "you must have a caster level this big to cast this spell" be trumped by the specifics of Versatile Spellcaster?  Otherwise things like Precocious Apprentice wouldn't work at all.
No, the Feat's rules are totally ambiguous to start with, but do make a tiny assumption which I'll cover in a second. The first obvious question you would have after reading it is do you need the ability to cast 4th level spells to do this?

The FAQ comes in and to a Metamagic based question (think an extended spell) says it's possible to cast higher than normal. However, this is a Metamagic based question. To understand what I mean, take for example an 8th level Sorcerer & Empowered Fireball. That's a 3rd level spell using a 5th level slot two 4th level slots, that deals 8d6+50% damage. Do you see the number dynamics there and where Versatile Spellcaster plays in? You can obtain CL boosts readily enough, but it's just as important as knowing a spell which tends to be the primary element discussed.


You're observation on PA is a good call out, but mindful actually doesn't support VA and opposes the FAQ ruling. See, PA calls out: Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells, you must succeed on a DC 8 caster level check to successfully cast this spell;. So in it, PA creates an exception to cast a 2nd level spell as say a 1st level character by using the provided rules.

VS on the other hand only creates an exception toward using the spell slots. And it does so in the operation that kind of assumes that you already have the higher spell level: unknown-level-sorcerer combines two 2nd level slots for a 3rd level spell they know, specific builds/combos are almost never used to this would mean the assumption is the sorcerer is of at least 6th level.

When comparing the two, you'd actually see that VS shouldn't break any sort of level cap to begin with. However, the FAQ that everyone hates for nerfing their favorite trick did broke it for power, sort of ironic I guess.


Also, helpful link here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872558/Lowest_level_versions_of_spells) (got a newer link?). Mindful, you still need some sort of access. So we can move on to talking about how you'd need a Runestaff to merge two 2nd level spells to cast Animate Dead (a typically 4th level sorcerer spell). :D

Who are you, and what have you done with SorO?  That post had no biting sarcasm, no profanity, and not once did you insult anyone's intelligence.  Totally not your style.

On topic, I'm still not sure I agree with you about there being a RAW minimum caster level for any given spell.  It would be too variable, due to classes like Ur Priest or Trapsmith with lower-than-normal CLs for certain spells, or feats like Mage Slayer that lower CL, or Orange Ioun Stones or other CL boosters.  Even in core, the Sorcerer has a "minimum CL" of 1 higher than the wizard for every spell he casts.  It seems obvious that the designers didn't think anyone would be able to cast Wish before level 17 when they first wrote it, but other books came along and kind of wrecked that.  Versatile Spellcaster seems like one of the ways to circumvent this (to borrow a concept from Aelrynth) "metacap".

The way I see it, Versatile Spellcaster asks 3 things:
1) Is what you're trying to cast a spell?
2) Do you know it?
3) Is it one level higher than the two spell slots you just sacrificed?

If the answer to all of the above is "yes", you can cast it.  The tricky part (and I think the part the designers weren't thinking too deeply about when they wrote this feat) is "Do you know it?".  They probably assumed that the only way to know a spell is to have a high enough class level to have at least a 1 on your class's "Spells Known" table for that spell level.  Under that assumption, the feat is probably pretty well balanced, if you believe that spells double in power every new spell level.  They probably weren't thinking about classes like Warmage that explicitly know their entire spell list from level 1, and that's why we get early entry shenanigans. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 27, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
Also to keep in mind, Ur-Priest has no clause for bypassing the default caster level requirements of spells, so theoretically you could have access to spell levels that can't be cast with the caster level possessed by default.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 27, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
Also to keep in mind, Ur-Priest has no clause for bypassing the default caster level requirements of spells, so theoretically you could have access to spell levels that can't be cast with the caster level possessed by default.

What is the default CL for a spell without knowing the spell?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on September 27, 2012, 09:37:17 PM
Also to keep in mind, Ur-Priest has no clause for bypassing the default caster level requirements of spells, so theoretically you could have access to spell levels that can't be cast with the caster level possessed by default.

What is the default CL for a spell without knowing the spell?
when I said "default", I meant the "1/2 other non-divine casting classes + ur-priest level" that sets your ur-priest level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 27, 2012, 10:38:10 PM
Lol... Ok
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 28, 2012, 10:14:34 AM
Who are you, and what have you done with SorO?  That post had no biting sarcasm, no profanity, and not once did you insult anyone's intelligence.  Totally not your style.
Last one sort of did and I'll call you an idiot now. Does that count?

My forum rage is tied to stress in real, and currently I'm just so burned out I'm boiled down to basic human functions. Only got 4 night shifts in October through so things should improve. Maybe I'll get my characters finish for a PBP game too >.>
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 30, 2012, 03:39:07 PM
Something more weird than fun: In dragon 339 there's a spell called Exaction. It allows you to sacrifice things to improve relations with a planar bound target. In the examples the moderate example is: sacrifice a sentient being. The weird thing is that the penalty is changing your alignment to one step closer to the target. So if you planar bind a lawfull good angel for example and you were lawful neutrel than your alignment would change to lawfull good when you sacrificed the sentient being  :twitch.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 30, 2012, 06:54:21 PM
 :lmao
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 30, 2012, 07:56:54 PM
:lmao

It doesn't matter what you sacrifice either (except that it's sentient). Sacrifice the angels god, kid, whatever.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 30, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
all you have to do is say to the god after you cast the spell... "i sacrifice you!" and they die :-p

here's a fun one (don't remember if it was brought up or not)

Transference  (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)

just use the Dominate spells to control someone to transfer all their XP into all your items, or your familiar. oh my familiar is down to level 1.... I'll trade it off for a full-powered new one.


Anthro-Badger + Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage = infinite intimidates until they fail
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 30, 2012, 09:37:30 PM

Anthro-Badger + Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage = infinite intimidates until they fail

Can't you already do this without anthro-badger and instantaneous rage? The feat in my copy says that you can do while in a rage and that you can do it as a free action.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on September 30, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
all you have to do is say to the god after you cast the spell... "i sacrifice you!" and they die :-p

here's a fun one (don't remember if it was brought up or not)

Transference  (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)

just use the Dominate spells to control someone to transfer all their XP into all your items, or your familiar. oh my familiar is down to level 1.... I'll trade it off for a full-powered new one.


Anthro-Badger + Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage = infinite intimidates until they fail

Transference works with anything that makes them unconscious as well, all unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing. Go hunting for some super high HD animals and knock them out with something that targets will saves.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on September 30, 2012, 10:48:19 PM
Or be a thrallherd.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on September 30, 2012, 10:59:06 PM
And then make a scroll of Wish with it. :plotting

Then Wish for XP. :evillaugh


Unless ya'll know of a better way to get XP from spells.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2012, 12:19:39 AM

Anthro-Badger + Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage = infinite intimidates until they fail

Can't you already do this without anthro-badger and instantaneous rage? The feat in my copy says that you can do while in a rage and that you can do it as a free action.

I guess you're right... Depending on how you read it... Damn its worded badly
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 01, 2012, 11:23:29 AM
Hizagkuur (Magic of Faerun, pg179) adds +1,500gp to a metal weapon's cost to add +2 damage.

Pretty cheap source of "magical" damage while creatures don't sport Resistance to everything.
Example; +2 Hizagkuur Greatsword deals 2d6+1, +1 fire, +1 electricity and only costs 5,500 & change, vs a +3's little over 18k for 2d6+3.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2012, 11:40:12 AM
i only recently started looking at some of the homebrew stuff again... and found this gem...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122824
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on October 02, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
Dragon 353 has some cleric ACFs that replace Turn Undead. Which is generally a bad trade, but there are some interesting ones in there.
Shaman gives you a ranger's animal companion (and... illiteracy), while Cultist grants +2 Bluff and makes you immune to effects like zone of truth and discern lies while carrying your holy symbol, and Scribe grants Scribe Scroll plus -25% XP cost for crafting scrolls. Wanderer grants Endurance as a bonus feat plus a few class skills (handy for prereqs).

There's a few spellthief ACFs too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 14, 2012, 11:15:56 AM
According to page 21 of Libris Mortis , the Wall of Fire spell deals double damage to undead.  While this normally wouldn't matter (since wall of fire still isn't that great of a spell) this is actually fantastic news for Uttercold Assault Necromancers (cause Wall of Fire is already great for them).

EDIT: That little tibbit of information is also in the description of the spell where anyone with half a brain can see it...which apparently isn't me  :banghead.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 14, 2012, 08:33:06 PM
Plague of Rats (Pestilence 5, Complete Divine pg 174) summons a 20' radius swarm of rats, and specifically states "spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the swarm is impossible."  This + any Wall = Fuck You, Wizards

Unfortunately the Spell Compendium "updated" this spell into uselessness :( but if you don't have SpC, or ignore the advice about using the older versions of spells, then this rocks.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on October 14, 2012, 08:39:18 PM
The Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) ACF
Quote
Illusion Mastery (Ex): An illusionist using this variant automatically adds two illusion spells to his spellbook every time he gains a level that grants access to a new spell level. Furthermore, any time the illusionist learns a new illusion spell, he treats that spell as if be had mastered it with the Spell Mastery feat.

An illusionist using this variant does not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist wizard.

Might seem like a bad trade... until you remember a certain feat in Exemplars of Evil.
Quote from: Uncanny Forethought
When preparing your daily allotment of spells, you can reserve a number of spell slots equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a standard action, you can use one of these slots to cast a spell that you selected for the Spell Mastery feat. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Chemus on October 15, 2012, 03:20:52 AM
Quote
Aquatic race
So in Monsters of Faerun there is an aquatic humanoid race called the Shalarin (pg. 76).  The PGtF web enhancement / monster update booklet says these guys are +0 LA.  It also gives them racial stat mods of +4 STR & DEX, +0 to everything else.  Wow, not too shabby for a +0 LA race.

But too bad they're aquatic and can't breath on dry land.  Oh wait, why not use the Amphibious template.  -2 DEX for air breathing is a pretty good deal.  So now you have +4 STR & +2 DEX on a +0 LA humanoid.

Throw on Dragonborn and now you've got +4 STR & +2 CON, can breath air or underwater just fine.

I'll take this guy over a Dragonborn Water Orc any day.  And chances are, if you have a DM that would actually let you use a Dragonborn Water Orc, he'll probably let you use a Dragonborn Shalarin.
This may be common knowledge, but Shalarin have no land movement rate...so that Dragonborn Shalarin can swim and if she chooses wings, glide, then fly by 6th, but that's it. Neither the dragonborn nor the aquatic templates grant land speeds.

2nd funny story, the water races can't breathe water, but the air races get to survive without air...

Edit: Not wanting to double post...
The Bone Knight PrC in Five Nations (Eberron)...you gain immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage to your physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, and death from massive damage...All you need to get is immunity to charm/compulsion (be an elf or a paladin of freedom), and immunity to polymorph effects and you're like totally wizard proof. ...

Fist of Raziel 1 (BoED) nets you Magic Circle, though if you can't be a Paladin, you probably can't be Exalted. Changeling nets you Shapechanger subtype, for the ability to resume your normal form on your next turn.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on October 15, 2012, 04:16:46 AM
The Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) ACF
Quote
Illusion Mastery (Ex): An illusionist using this variant automatically adds two illusion spells to his spellbook every time he gains a level that grants access to a new spell level. Furthermore, any time the illusionist learns a new illusion spell, he treats that spell as if be had mastered it with the Spell Mastery feat.

An illusionist using this variant does not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist wizard.

Might seem like a bad trade... until you remember a certain feat in Exemplars of Evil.
Quote from: Uncanny Forethought
When preparing your daily allotment of spells, you can reserve a number of spell slots equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a standard action, you can use one of these slots to cast a spell that you selected for the Spell Mastery feat. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast.

In other words, lots of fun with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on October 15, 2012, 05:15:33 AM
The Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) ACF
Quote
Illusion Mastery (Ex): An illusionist using this variant automatically adds two illusion spells to his spellbook every time he gains a level that grants access to a new spell level. Furthermore, any time the illusionist learns a new illusion spell, he treats that spell as if be had mastered it with the Spell Mastery feat.

An illusionist using this variant does not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist wizard.

Might seem like a bad trade... until you remember a certain feat in Exemplars of Evil.
Quote from: Uncanny Forethought
When preparing your daily allotment of spells, you can reserve a number of spell slots equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a standard action, you can use one of these slots to cast a spell that you selected for the Spell Mastery feat. The level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast.

If I'm reading this correctly, Every 2 levels you get 2 mastered spells, which can be cast as standard actions from any unprepared spell slot?
If that's correct, then a SCM could, instead of preparing a bunch of Silent Images with metamagic to get the correct level, instead leave those slots blank and cast freely from them OR prepare utility spells as needed throughout the day?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on October 15, 2012, 08:05:51 AM
If I'm reading this correctly, Every 2 levels you get 2 mastered spells, which can be cast as standard actions from any unprepared spell slot?
Nope; all your illusion spells become valid targets for Uncanny Forethought.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on October 15, 2012, 12:02:38 PM
Also goes nicely with Magelord (Lost Empires of Faerûn; use the errata'd version!).


Different thing: MM2 has a creature called the Dunestalker. It's an Outsider of 5 HD iirc (bindable with LPB). It has the Kiss of Death ability, which kills the target on a failed save - and stuns it for one round on a successful save! Needs a touch attack unfortunately, but I imagine getting it off even once means your Wizard and his pet Dunestalker just killed the (non-Undead, non-Construct) BBEG.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on October 17, 2012, 05:10:39 PM
In Dragon 324 when I was browsing for that druid skin, I came across the actual recommendation of using Polymorph Any Object to turn a squirrel corpse into a templated dragon turtle. Domo Arigato Mr Roboto has been confirmed as RAI.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 17, 2012, 05:37:14 PM
In Dragon 324 when I was browsing for that druid skin, I came across the actual recommendation of using Polymorph Any Object to turn a squirrel corpse into a templated dragon turtle. Domo Arigato Mr Roboto has been confirmed as RAI.

Wow ... and awesome.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Unbeliever on October 17, 2012, 05:55:59 PM
Also goes nicely with Magelord (Lost Empires of Faerûn; use the errata'd version!).
Silly question, where can I get the LEoF errata?  I tried googling, but had no luck. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on October 17, 2012, 06:03:13 PM
Also goes nicely with Magelord (Lost Empires of Faerûn; use the errata'd version!).
<snip>

I actually mentioned that combo a while ago in this thread:

Quote
the magelord prestige class can be made half salvageble with the illusion mastery variant for specialist wizards and both the class and the variant can be found online by googling (Make the spell level requirement for the magelord 4th instead of 5th level and it could actually be okay).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 18, 2012, 03:19:34 AM
Also goes nicely with Magelord (Lost Empires of Faerûn; use the errata'd version!).


Different thing: MM2 has a creature called the Dunestalker. It's an Outsider of 5 HD iirc (bindable with LPB). It has the Kiss of Death ability, which kills the target on a failed save - and stuns it for one round on a successful save! Needs a touch attack unfortunately, but I imagine getting it off even once means your Wizard and his pet Dunestalker just killed the (non-Undead, non-Construct) BBEG.

Pretty sure its 6 HD
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on October 18, 2012, 03:32:27 AM
Still a candidate for LPB, which is all that counts.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on October 18, 2012, 11:18:01 AM
Also goes nicely with Magelord (Lost Empires of Faerûn; use the errata'd version!).


Different thing: MM2 has a creature called the Dunestalker. It's an Outsider of 5 HD iirc (bindable with LPB). It has the Kiss of Death ability, which kills the target on a failed save - and stuns it for one round on a successful save! Needs a touch attack unfortunately, but I imagine getting it off even once means your Wizard and his pet Dunestalker just killed the (non-Undead, non-Construct) BBEG.
Holy crap that's broken. WTF is wrong with the authors!

In Dragon 324 when I was browsing for that druid skin, I came across the actual recommendation of using Polymorph Any Object to turn a squirrel corpse into a templated dragon turtle. Domo Arigato Mr Roboto has been confirmed as RAI.

Wow ... and awesome.

Ditto...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Chemus on October 23, 2012, 01:06:34 AM
Remembered the baleful polymorph (http://www.dndsrd.net/spellsAtoB.html#baleful-polymorph) + awaken (http://www.dndsrd.net/spellsAtoB.html#awaken) (dirty?) trick to get you the magical beast type (even on a humanoid body) and a solid reroll for your Int. As broken-gravy, you get +1d3 Cha points (not bonus, points) and 2 Magical beast HD each time you're awakened. Awaken does cost 250XP per casting though.

A druid casts b-p on a target; target's type becomes animal. Druid casts awaken on that animal; int reroll, ++d3 cha ++2HD, type becomes magical beast(augmented animal). Awaken is instantaneous; non-dispellable. Repeat. Instant Warrior 20 on any creature, plus good ref save. For 2500 XP.

This is TO, isn't it?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 23, 2012, 02:46:19 AM
Remembered the baleful polymorph (http://www.dndsrd.net/spellsAtoB.html#baleful-polymorph) + awaken (http://www.dndsrd.net/spellsAtoB.html#awaken) (dirty?) trick to get you the magical beast type (even on a humanoid body) and a solid reroll for your Int. As broken-gravy, you get +1d3 Cha points (not bonus, points) and 2 Magical beast HD each time you're awakened. Awaken does cost 250XP per casting though.

A druid casts b-p on a target; target's type becomes animal. Druid casts awaken on that animal; int reroll, ++d3 cha ++2HD, type becomes magical beast(augmented animal). Awaken is instantaneous; non-dispellable. Repeat. Instant Warrior 20 on any creature, plus good ref save. For 2500 XP.

This is TO, isn't it?

Well the HD from Awakening yourself would probably count against your ECL, so that's no bueno. 
And the caster has to make an ever-increasing Will save.  But assuming you're willing to wait long enough for him to nat 20 the save for the spell to stick (and remember, there's a 24 hour casting time), it should work.  I recommend using the trick on a cohort or follower rather than on yourself so that you can continue advancing levels afterwards.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 23, 2012, 04:01:51 AM
Earlier in this thread, people were talking about how to get rebuke undead while having a good alignment.  The mystic class (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, p47) is one way.  It gives you one domain, with additional domain options not available to clerics.  The necromancy domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting, p103) gives rebuke undead.  The domain is exclusively available to mystics.  If anyone can find a way around that restriction, I'd like to know. 

The mystic class itself might qualify as a fun find.  It gets spontaneous casting from the cleric spell list, and its spellcasting is entirely based on wisdom. 

I've known for a long time that hairy spiders (Monsters of Faerun, p79) are available as normal familiars.  I only recently noticed that they have a +12 racial bonus on spot checks. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Chemus on October 23, 2012, 04:23:35 AM
Well the HD from Awakening yourself would probably count against your ECL, so that's no bueno. 
And the caster has to make an ever-increasing Will save.  But assuming you're willing to wait long enough for him to nat 20 the save for the spell to stick (and remember, there's a 24 hour casting time), it should work.  I recommend using the trick on a cohort or follower rather than on yourself so that you can continue advancing levels afterwards.
Agreed that it's probably better for someone not you, except that can't two druids trade castings and use the gained HD for the XP to craft, then chose to lose the HD to level drain? Hmm...see the bottom of the post!

Actually, you gain all stats of a small or smaller animal w <= 1HD at the initial casting, except these:
   
Quote from: Baleful Polymorph, SRD
The target retains its own alignment (and personality, within the limits of the new form’s ability scores).

    If the target has the shapechanger subtype, it retains that subtype.

    The target retains its own hit points.

    The target is treated has having its normal Hit Dice for purpose of adjudicating effects based on HD, such as the sleep spell, though it uses the new form’s base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and all other statistics derived from Hit Dice.

    The target also retains the ability to understand (but not to speak) the languages it understood in its original form. It can write in the languages it understands, but only the form is capable of writing in some manner (such as drawing in the dirt with a paw).

Note the calling out of shapechanger subtype retention; type immediately changes to animal. Actually changelings would be great for this since they wouldn't need to dispel... oh oh... I just figured a way into the Soul Eater PrC (BoVD p66) as a changeling without resorting to templates. And with that you get to apply negative levels to yourself! Drop those Magical Beast levels like they're HOT! Caelic's Boogeyman (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=363.msg7510#msg7510) rides again! And as a bonus, it can look like a bunny before it uses its tentacles in ways you're horrified that you can imagine and then eats your soul.

I should probably move this to TO now; this is now plainly repeatable to an arbitrarily high Cha, and the XP from the HD gained would be usable in crafting/casting.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on October 24, 2012, 10:52:25 AM
The Supremely Confident feat from Dragon #335 is a boost for any bardic fear build.

Quote
Supremely Confident
With a sneer, a scornful laugh, and a raised eyebrow you send the message that you are merely toying with your opponents.
Prerequisite: Perform (act) 7 ranks.
Benefit: You may, as a standard action, make a Perform (act) check in place of an Intimidate check made to demoralize an opponent in combat. In addition, whenever you make a successful critical hit you can immediately attempt to demoralize your target as a free action.
Special: A fighter may select Supremely Confident as one of his fighter bonus feats

From the same issue, the Totem Druid allows taking the shape of a limited list of animals (including bear or tiger) at level 1.  By RAW I don't think Totem Shape counts as Wild Shape for prereqs, sadly, but it's a reasonable interpretation which makes prereqs even easier.

Finally, (again from Dragon 335), Favored Dodge could be a very nice feat for swift hunter builds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Noliar on October 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
Well the HD from Awakening yourself would probably count against your ECL, so that's no bueno. 
And the caster has to make an ever-increasing Will save.  But assuming you're willing to wait long enough for him to nat 20 the save for the spell to stick (and remember, there's a 24 hour casting time), it should work.  I recommend using the trick on a cohort or follower rather than on yourself so that you can continue advancing levels afterwards.
Agreed that it's probably better for someone not you, except that can't two druids trade castings and use the gained HD for the XP to craft, then chose to lose the HD to level drain? Hmm...see the bottom of the post!

Actually, you gain all stats of a small or smaller animal w <= 1HD at the initial casting, except these:
   
Quote from: Baleful Polymorph, SRD
The target retains its own alignment (and personality, within the limits of the new form’s ability scores).

    If the target has the shapechanger subtype, it retains that subtype.

    The target retains its own hit points.

    The target is treated has having its normal Hit Dice for purpose of adjudicating effects based on HD, such as the sleep spell, though it uses the new form’s base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and all other statistics derived from Hit Dice.

    The target also retains the ability to understand (but not to speak) the languages it understood in its original form. It can write in the languages it understands, but only the form is capable of writing in some manner (such as drawing in the dirt with a paw).

Note the calling out of shapechanger subtype retention; type immediately changes to animal. Actually changelings would be great for this since they wouldn't need to dispel... oh oh... I just figured a way into the Soul Eater PrC (BoVD p66) as a changeling without resorting to templates. And with that you get to apply negative levels to yourself! Drop those Magical Beast levels like they're HOT! Caelic's Boogeyman (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=363.msg7510#msg7510) rides again! And as a bonus, it can look like a bunny before it uses its tentacles in ways you're horrified that you can imagine and then eats your soul.

I should probably move this to TO now; this is now plainly repeatable to an arbitrarily high Cha, and the XP from the HD gained would be usable in crafting/casting.

The first level druid spell aspect of the wolf also gives the animal type. A level of (cloistered) cleric for DMM lets you cast an extended, persisted version that lasts 48 hours so you are the right type for the whole 24 hour casting time of awaken and a captive wight to drain away those animal hd and you are sorted. once your charisma is as high as you want you will have enough turns per day to maximise and empower the awaken so your final INT is 18 + 3d6/2.

It is especially nice in gestalt because you can go full druid on one side and load up on classes that benefit from huge charisma on the other - hexblade, battledancer, crusader, wilder and marshal.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on October 24, 2012, 07:58:47 PM
And if you're a Wild Reaper druid, you get turn undead at level 12 without needing to dip.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on October 27, 2012, 11:24:40 PM
The 3.5 version of crystal master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d) looks nice.  With 8 levels, you can get continuous touchsight out to 50 feet while psionically focused, a +4 insight bonus to saves and AC while psionically focused, an untyped +2 bonus to intelligence while psionically focused, and damage reduction 4/-.  You do lose a manifester level though. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Endarire on October 31, 2012, 03:39:03 AM
Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Guide page 89 has the feat called Movement Check.  If a foe provokes an AoO from moving through your melee threat range and you hit, you deal normal damage and the foe immediately stops moving.   Take that, Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)!

Though it's been mentioned elsewhere, Kingdoms of Kalamar 88 has the +0 Metamagic feat Miser with Magic.  (Its only prereq is "Spellcaster level 7th," which probably means the ability to cast spells at caster level 7+.)  Before* casting a Miser with Magic spell, make a Spellcraft check of 10 + twice the spell's level.  If you succeed, you don't lose the spell prep/spell slot.  If you fail by 5 or more (highly unlikely, considering who I'm talking to here) you can't cast the spell and instead lose the spell slot.  Miser with Magic only works with spell levels of no more than your primary casting modifier (CHA for Bards, INT for Wizards), but again, this should not be a problem!

*The book says you make this check after casting, but the penalty only makes sense if you make the check before casting!  And if you aren't in combat, you can take 10!  Ta da!  (It's reasons like this that the Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect has a Spellcraft DC of 18 + 3x the modified spell slot's level.)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on October 31, 2012, 01:12:53 PM
Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Guide page 89 has the feat called Movement Check.  If a foe provokes an AoO from moving through your melee threat range and you hit, you deal normal damage and the foe immediately stops moving.   Take that, Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)!

Though it's been mentioned elsewhere, Kingdoms of Kalamar 88 has the +0 Metamagic feat Miser with Magic.  (Its only prereq is "Spellcaster level 7th," which probably means the ability to cast spells at caster level 7+.)  Before* casting a Miser with Magic spell, make a Spellcraft check of 10 + twice the spell's level.  If you succeed, you don't lose the spell prep/spell slot.  If you fail by 5 or more (highly unlikely, considering who I'm talking to here) you can't cast the spell and instead lose the spell slot.  Miser with Magic only works with spell levels of no more than your primary casting modifier (CHA for Bards, INT for Wizards), but again, this should not be a problem!

*The book says you make this check after casting, but the penalty only makes sense if you make the check before casting!  And if you aren't in combat, you can take 10!  Ta da!  (It's reasons like this that the Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect has a Spellcraft DC of 18 + 3x the modified spell slot's level.)

Kingdoms of Kalimar Player’s Guide to the Sovereign Lands is the update for the majority of what had been published before. Publish date 2006.

This is where Iressistable Spell was knocked down to being "just" +10 to the save DC. And gets a few pre-req feats.

Movement Check only triggers if the target is either running or charging.

Miser with Magic has: the check DC changed to [20 + (Spell Level * 2)]; changed so that you can only use it to regain a total number of spell levels per day equal to your casting ability score's modifier.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 01, 2012, 02:59:25 AM
Gloves of Man (Savage Species) + Ironmaw = long-distance lockpick/pickpocket

Gloves of Man + 1000ft rope + drunken master + graft weapon power = lots of fun
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on November 01, 2012, 04:56:28 AM


Gloves of Man + 1000ft rope + drunken master + graft weapon power = lots of fun
Great, you've made 1000 feet of grope.  :lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 01, 2012, 09:43:05 AM
I think you got confused over the difference of wearing a magical item and throwing it at people.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 01, 2012, 11:21:01 AM
I think you got confused over the difference of wearing a magical item and throwing it at people.

Well a drunken master has the improvised weapons ability. This allows him to use random things as weapons, right?

Well now that the 1000ft rope is a weapon, he can manifest graft weapon and it becomes a natural weapon too. Which allows him to stick one of those gloves on the far end, since natural weapons are part of your body, right right?


Best way to grab the good stuff out of the dragon's volcano lair.... Just reach down, and... RUN!!!!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 04, 2012, 01:29:28 PM
I'm away from my books but reread Gloves of Man some time, at a glance I seen something that disagreed.

What I can say for now is Improvised Weapons require you to find a comparable weapon. 1,000ft or rope sounds like a Colossal+^61 Whip or so, which means you cannot use it One-Handed for Graft Weapon. So we're talking Epic Dragon to even make this work.

Nice idea, Warlock's SLA at x10,000 the cost, but I think it needs refinement.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 04, 2012, 05:36:08 PM
actually, technically, pg158 has rules on fighting with coils of rope. maybe just not the length we're suggesting, but its still rope and they don't specify the length

silk rope weighs 5lbs for 50ft, so 1000ft = 100lbs, which table 4-7 in CW says deals 3d6 damage and is a Large two-handed 10ft reach weapon.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 04, 2012, 09:39:07 PM
Yes it mentions Rope, and suggests applying the Entangling Effect. Never said it can't be a weapon, only that you can't wield 1,000 feet of it as a One-Hander.

Now that I'm home;
Quote from: Savage Species, pg57
Gloves of Man: These magic gloves provide humanoid fingers and thumbs for the wearer. Any creature may wear them, provided the creature has tentacles or paws over which to slip them. While wearing the gloves, the creature may manipulate items as if it had fully functional hands. The wearer can use her full Strength and Dexterity with her new “hands.” Creatures with hands gain no benefit from the gloves, but creatures missing a thumb, a finger, or even an entire hand can use the gloves as a way to replace the loss.
aster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph other; Market Price: 42,000 gp. Weight: —.
I see what I was thinking of, but Rope as a Natural Weapon is pretty slimier to Tenticles & their Slam attacks. Probably works fine on the end of dangly bits.

And the Warlock comment;
Quote from: Complete Mage, page unknown
DISEMBODIED HAND
Lesser; 4th
One of your hands drops off at the wrist and floats in the air. You can use the hand in all ways as if it were still attached—manipulating items, delivering attacks with a light or one-handed weapon, or even delivering a touch attack with a spell or invocation that you cast before it detaches. However, it requires you to expend the same action that would have been required—picking up an item takes a move action, making an attack takes a standard action, and so forth. The hand flies rather than crawls, but it can't move on its own. You can move the hand up to 30 feet through the air as a move action. You can direct a disembodied hand in your space to reattach to your arm as a move action. When you use this invocation, your current and full normal hit point totals are reduced by 5 for as long as the hand is detached. The hand is considered a Diminutive creature with AC 20 and 5 hit points. Its Hide and Move Silently modifiers are equal to your warlock level. For all other purposes, its statistics are equal to yours. If your disembodied hand is destroyed, it regrows in 1d4 hours. At the end of this period, you regain the 5 lost hit points. Only one of your hands can be used for disembodied hand at any time; if your disembodied hand is destroyed, you can't use this invocation again until your hand regrows.
Infinite range, no required tether, infinite duration, no gold cost, less of a penalty for being destroyed, costs one level like drunken master but you [probably] get to shoot lasers out of it (eldritch blast). In every way it's superior to your suggestion without ever having to dig around in books to find DM subjective rules to support it. Dip Warlock twice and you can even net Crawling Eye and have it ride on the Hand as the creepiest proxy ever.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 04, 2012, 09:46:02 PM
Dip Warlock twice and you can even net Crawling Eye and have it ride on the Hand as the creepiest proxy ever.
And you can have great fun duping adventuring parties into thinking they're the Hand and Eye of Vecna.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Scottzar on November 04, 2012, 11:50:36 PM
Dip Warlock twice and you can even net Crawling Eye and have it ride on the Hand as the creepiest proxy ever.
And you can have great fun duping adventuring parties into thinking they're the Hand and Eye of Vecna.
Or that your name is Dan.

Gloves of man + deepspawn equals + 2 hands.
One of my favourite warblade builds was mouthpick weapon + in hands weapon to dual wield 2 handed weapons.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on November 05, 2012, 04:44:31 AM
I just read through the Fiendish Codexes for the first time ever (boo!), and I'm thinking about the demonic possession rules a lot. They're incredibly open-ended, and can only lead to hilarity.

Did you know you can possess only part of an object, like that section of wall, or this one word on a whole page? And did you know you can make it so everybody coming into contact with that object gets cursed? You do remember that line from the Bestow Curse spell, "You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above", right? Possess the ground (or the air) right in front of the city gates, and curse everybody touching it to immediately empty their bladder, or grope the next person, or whatever you feel like.

Did you know there's no minimal size for an object you possess? Yes, you can possess an atom if you wish! Try sundering that, adamantine-Greatsword-wielding Barbarian! Also, possess an oxygen atom (not a molecule! That would be stupid!) and be inhaled by whomever, riding around in their bloodstream for a while, eventually being built right into their body's molecular structure. Are you now possessing the inhaler, with no save allowed? I sure don't know!

If you have sufficiently high HD and Cha, you can make your possessed object move of its own accord as if it were an Animated Object. You can also hide inside it to pass through warded areas and escape Divination spells. How about possessing a big, spiky ball of adamantine (preferably subject to a prior Hardening spell, of course), and just bowling everybody over? Nobody's ever going to find out just why that metal ball is doing what it's doing (if you have a good Hide score, but skills are easy to boost), or how to stop it!

Be creative, be a pest, spread the chaos of the Abyss! All you need is be a demon of some sorts. The Possession ability even only increases CR, not LA!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on November 05, 2012, 09:14:05 AM
Atoms don't exist by D&D physics, and there's no size category smaller than Fine.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on November 05, 2012, 02:32:26 PM
Atoms don't exist by D&D physics, and there's no size category smaller than Fine.

Atoms don't exist? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously saying D&D matter is composed of building blocks as big as a mouse (fine size), or something minecraptastic as that? I doubt it. Matter is made of atoms, what else should it be made of?

Note that the Fine size category is only defined as "6 inches or less". Note also that it only pertains to creatures.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on November 05, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Atoms don't exist by D&D physics, and there's no size category smaller than Fine.

Atoms don't exist? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously saying D&D matter is composed of building blocks as big as a mouse (fine size), or something minecraptastic as that? I doubt it. Matter is made of atoms, what else should it be made of?

Note that the Fine size category is only defined as "6 inches or less". Note also that it only pertains to creatures.

Physics doesn't exist in D&D, and neither does Chemistry. All these things have abstract rules that mimic them to the extent needed for an average game, but are ignored past that point. Convection from lava doesn't burn you to a crisp, and falling damage stops at 20d6 regardless of any normal physics. Atoms may exist in a D&D world, but I doubt a character has any knowledge of it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 05, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
Atoms don't exist by D&D physics, and there's no size category smaller than Fine.

Atoms don't exist? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously saying D&D matter is composed of building blocks as big as a mouse (fine size), or something minecraptastic as that? I doubt it. Matter is made of atoms, what else should it be made of?

Note that the Fine size category is only defined as "6 inches or less". Note also that it only pertains to creatures.

 :rolleyes

Matter in D&D is made of the prime elements, plus either negative or positive energy. Four elements, two energies.
Earth, Air, Fire, and Water each comes in a multitude of variants, and coalesce each in their own way.

A 50lb granite rock in D&D is not 20-trillion atoms in just the right configuration. It is 50lbs of Earth element of the granite variety.

Support for what you claim:
Quote from: DMG
Despite the fact that weird shit happens, physics operate normally

Support for what I (and Prime) claim:
Quote from: DMG p148
Within the D&D cosmology, four basic elements and two types of energy together make up everything. The elements are earth, air, fire, and water. The types of energy are positive and negative.
The Material Plane reflects a balancing of those elements and energies; all are found there.

I have about 30 (< exaggeration) other RAW quotes I could throw out, but I don't want to sit here typing in this thread that long.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on November 05, 2012, 05:44:37 PM
You know what? I'll just give it to you, and return to the actual point besides the nitpicking: demons can possess an arbitrarily small amount of matter, whatever it's made up of. They can possess "a bit of air so small that it's virtually indistinguishable from a real-world atom in size" if that's more to your liking. Now is that a fun find or what?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 05, 2012, 07:39:44 PM
You know what? I'll just give it to you, and return to the actual point besides the nitpicking: demons can possess an arbitrarily small amount of matter, whatever it's made up of. They can possess "a bit of air so small that it's virtually indistinguishable from a real-world atom in size" if that's more to your liking. Now is that a fun find or what?
Yes, and if they want they can possess only a part of that atom-sized air particle.  :lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 05, 2012, 09:50:29 PM
Dibs on the Charm Quark.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on November 05, 2012, 10:03:47 PM
I'll take Up!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 05, 2012, 10:18:51 PM
I'll take the Bottom.  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agita on November 05, 2012, 10:49:25 PM
I'll take the Bottom.  :smirk
I'll be on Top, then. :flutter
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 05, 2012, 10:50:28 PM
Oh I'm definitely Strange.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on November 06, 2012, 03:44:09 PM
Its Atomic Voltron!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 06, 2012, 10:05:50 PM
I'll be:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110802230130/warhammer40k/images/f/f9/Tau2.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on November 07, 2012, 11:42:41 PM
Neat to see this thread still going.

Ring of Vengence from BoED does 15d6 damage for 4.5k gold. It's only usable once and the person wearing the ring has to die.

But put it on a rabbit or something and throw it at the Orc.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on November 08, 2012, 12:27:14 AM
Yes it mentions Rope, and suggests applying the Entangling Effect. Never said it can't be a weapon, only that you can't wield 1,000 feet of it as a One-Hander.

Now that I'm home;
Quote from: Savage Species, pg57
Gloves of Man: These magic gloves provide humanoid fingers and thumbs for the wearer. Any creature may wear them, provided the creature has tentacles or paws over which to slip them. While wearing the gloves, the creature may manipulate items as if it had fully functional hands. The wearer can use her full Strength and Dexterity with her new “hands.” Creatures with hands gain no benefit from the gloves, but creatures missing a thumb, a finger, or even an entire hand can use the gloves as a way to replace the loss.
aster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph other; Market Price: 42,000 gp. Weight: —.
I see what I was thinking of, but Rope as a Natural Weapon is pretty slimier to Tenticles & their Slam attacks. Probably works fine on the end of dangly bits.

And the Warlock comment;
Quote from: Complete Mage, page unknown
DISEMBODIED HAND
Lesser; 4th
One of your hands drops off at the wrist and floats in the air. You can use the hand in all ways as if it were still attached—manipulating items, delivering attacks with a light or one-handed weapon, or even delivering a touch attack with a spell or invocation that you cast before it detaches. However, it requires you to expend the same action that would have been required—picking up an item takes a move action, making an attack takes a standard action, and so forth. The hand flies rather than crawls, but it can't move on its own. You can move the hand up to 30 feet through the air as a move action. You can direct a disembodied hand in your space to reattach to your arm as a move action. When you use this invocation, your current and full normal hit point totals are reduced by 5 for as long as the hand is detached. The hand is considered a Diminutive creature with AC 20 and 5 hit points. Its Hide and Move Silently modifiers are equal to your warlock level. For all other purposes, its statistics are equal to yours. If your disembodied hand is destroyed, it regrows in 1d4 hours. At the end of this period, you regain the 5 lost hit points. Only one of your hands can be used for disembodied hand at any time; if your disembodied hand is destroyed, you can't use this invocation again until your hand regrows.
Infinite range, no required tether, infinite duration, no gold cost, less of a penalty for being destroyed, costs one level like drunken master but you [probably] get to shoot lasers out of it (eldritch blast). In every way it's superior to your suggestion without ever having to dig around in books to find DM subjective rules to support it. Dip Warlock twice and you can even net Crawling Eye and have it ride on the Hand as the creepiest proxy ever.
win. btw you have to go to warlock8 since they are both least invocations
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on November 08, 2012, 09:43:01 AM
Neat to see this thread still going.

Ring of Vengence from BoED does 15d6 damage for 4.5k gold. It's only usable once and the person wearing the ring has to die.

But put it on a rabbit or something and throw it at the Orc.
Why not just use a necklace of fireballs, then? Type 3 has a total of 29d6 damage for 4350 gold.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on November 08, 2012, 09:53:33 AM
As mentioned in this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7958.0) Ask A Question thread, Enlarge Weapon (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-scoundrel--60/enlarge-weapon--912/) can be used to remove size penalties from inappropriately sized weapons.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 08, 2012, 10:14:01 AM
As mentioned in this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7958.0) Ask A Question thread, Enlarge Weapon (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-scoundrel--60/enlarge-weapon--912/) can be used to remove size penalties from inappropriately sized weapons.

That's so great -- get it in a wand chamber and tote around a colossal greatsword.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on November 08, 2012, 10:23:27 AM
Wouldn't the rules about the number of hands needed to wield the weapon (and that you can't wield it once it goes above two-handed) still apply?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 08, 2012, 10:28:15 AM
Depends on what it means by "wield at no penalty", I guess.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 08, 2012, 11:10:41 AM
win. btw you have to go to warlock8 since they are both least invocations
Least>Lesser>Greater>Dark.

If you ever get confused on which one is lower, you can always look up the definition of least.

Anyway, I see what you meant. They are Lessers not Least. So how to steal these Invocations without Warlock levels... Hmm...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 08, 2012, 12:51:17 PM
As mentioned in this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7958.0) Ask A Question thread, Enlarge Weapon (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-scoundrel--60/enlarge-weapon--912/) can be used to remove size penalties from inappropriately sized weapons.

That's so great -- get it in a wand chamber and tote around a colossal greatsword.

.... Staff chamber?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on November 08, 2012, 02:04:36 PM
Neat to see this thread still going.

Ring of Vengence from BoED does 15d6 damage for 4.5k gold. It's only usable once and the person wearing the ring has to die.

But put it on a rabbit or something and throw it at the Orc.
Why not just use a necklace of fireballs, then? Type 3 has a total of 29d6 damage for 4350 gold.

No action, no save.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 08, 2012, 02:30:21 PM
Neat to see this thread still going.

Ring of Vengence from BoED does 15d6 damage for 4.5k gold. It's only usable once and the person wearing the ring has to die.

But put it on a rabbit or something and throw it at the Orc.
Why not just use a necklace of fireballs, then? Type 3 has a total of 29d6 damage for 4350 gold.

No action, no save.

... Most importantly, above all else: No Damage Type.

No resistances, no immunities, no fuss, no muss, you are hurt because you killed my bunny.
kthxbye.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: kitcik on November 08, 2012, 02:48:21 PM
Combine with the Phoenix Fire spell (BoED)?

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 08, 2012, 03:27:02 PM
Combine with the Phoenix Fire spell (BoED)?
It damages the creature that dealt the killing blow. Phoenix Fire has you kill yourself.

Interesting, but it doesn't work to combo.

Starmantle on the enemy, Spell Turning, or any other "stop hitting yourself" spell would get a little confusing as to which one counts as having dealt the blow, you or them. Though really, that's just more reason to put it on expendable allies.

Note: the post above is inaccurate, there is a save for half damage, DC 19 reflex. Still higher than the necklace, but it still lowers the comparative advantages.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 08, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
Neat to see this thread still going.

Ring of Vengence from BoED does 15d6 damage for 4.5k gold. It's only usable once and the person wearing the ring has to die.

But put it on a rabbit or something and throw it at the Orc.
Why not just use a necklace of fireballs, then? Type 3 has a total of 29d6 damage for 4350 gold.

No action, no save.

Gaahhh !
It's a Bears R Brown sighting ... or is that his evul twin?
 :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: BearsAreBrown on November 08, 2012, 05:27:59 PM
Whoopsies, was wrong about the save responded from memory. Yeah, no action and energy type is why it'd be good I guess.

And yes, it's me.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 13, 2012, 10:37:22 AM
Gaahhh !
It's a Bears R Brown sighting ... or is that his evul twin?
 :)
Who, Panda Bear?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on November 13, 2012, 12:13:38 PM
Gaahhh !
It's a Bears R Brown sighting ... or is that his evul twin?
 :)
Who, Panda Bear?
BearsAren'tBrown.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 13, 2012, 01:20:52 PM
I thought of an idea as to how to have fun with that Ring of Retribution.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 13, 2012, 09:31:50 PM
Umm....

Paladin: Thanks for the ring that I can only put on helpless opponents as a DM set action (move to draw, standard to apply?).
You: You're welcome.
Paladin: It's a shame I can Detect Evil as a Standard Action all day, 24/7, on any sort of target, without them knowing.
You: Yeah well, my Bluff check says this is lagit.
Paladin: Not the point...
You: Fine I'll murder you while you sleep!

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on November 13, 2012, 09:33:07 PM
You missed the point where it works on all the things that block Detect Evil.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on November 13, 2012, 09:42:54 PM
And you missed the point that if the pally wants to put it on someone, that person will likely already have to be in a position where he won't need to smite after, because the person is already helpless...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 14, 2012, 08:50:06 AM
And you missed the point that if the pally wants to put it on someone, that person will likely already have to be in a position where he won't need to smite after, because the person is already helpless...

Depends on the campaign, actually. If the paladin is investigating things, as I said, then he would ask the person to put it on. You know, so he could figure out if combat was necessary.

And yes, I listed off a very small portion of things that Detect Evil doesn't work against.

By default, if the combat has already started, or if Detect Evil already "pops" against the person, the pally couldn't care less about the ring. But if he is investigating things that you've done, but you're there maintaining a deception of helping him, while you actually steer him toward your rivals, then it does help. Because your evil rivals won't know what you're up to. So pally puts ring on them, it reveals that they're not good, pally fights other evils, you mop up.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 14, 2012, 02:29:11 PM
Depends on the campaign, actually. If the paladin is investigating things he would use Zone of Truth and this little thing called evidence.
fify.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on November 14, 2012, 02:31:19 PM
Too complicated, let's have the paladin's investigation scenario be about the bard using diplomacy to convince people to put on this ring.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 14, 2012, 02:34:14 PM
Which works a hundred times better. You're just a merchant selling 'cursed' goods, and you retrieve them afterwards...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Aliek on November 15, 2012, 09:56:33 AM
Dragon #346 has the named spell and greater named spell metamagic feats. While it needs truespeaking, it shouldn't be too hard for a full caster to bump it with a couple spells, and it works only on single-target spells too.But then, the fun begins.
+2 to the DCs and SP for the regular, another +2 for the greater. And it isn't restricted to a single school. Might work nicely with an enchanter or something, +4 to your DCs is nothing to scoff at.
Tough not so practical nor overpowering, it is meaningful, and can be a way to play a character who uses a bit of truenaming without really being a truenamer.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 15, 2012, 06:39:36 PM
I've mentioned this a few times in the last month or two, so someone may have already mentioned it in this thread, but here goes:

Circle Magic-Fueled [Reserve] feats
Requires: Circle Magic (Red Wizard, Hathran, or Halruaan Elder); a Reserve feat
Reserve feats are fueled by the spell level of the type of spell in question.  Circle Magic allows you to "freely" heighten a spell up to 20th level.
Acidic Splatter: Heighten any acid spell up to 20th level.  You now have a 20d6 ranged acid attack with a 100 ft range, usable at will.
There are several other Reserve feats that also increase in damage, but most of them allow saves for half.  Of course, the DC would be 30 + Spellcasting Stat Mod.

Charnel Miasma from Complete Champion would be an interesting one: DC 30+ Will save to become shaken, or if already shaken, panicked for 1 minute.

Holy Warrior would be a good one for Hathran Clerics if any of them had access to the War Domain, though I don't think any of them do.

It's possible to interpret the circle magic duration of "24 hours or until expended" as referring to two different aspects: increased caster level (24 hours) and metamagiced spells (until expended).  If your DM interprets it that way, you can just prep Acid Splash as a 20th level spell ("losing" one 0-level spell), just never cast that spell, and he's set for life.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on November 15, 2012, 08:01:13 PM
win. btw you have to go to warlock8 since they are both least lesser invocations
Least>Lesser>Greater>Dark.

If you ever get confused on which one is lower, you can always look up the definition of least.

Anyway, I see what you meant. They are Lessers not Least. So how to steal these Invocations without Warlock levels... Hmm...
Lets play who can spot the typo! Both of us fail.

I'll resubmit this: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b permanent potions as SLAs. Not worth the optimization for 1-3 level spells, but way worth it with 9th level ones.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 16, 2012, 12:22:34 PM
nice find (again).... thats really cool!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 16, 2012, 12:31:20 PM
Interesting... so it isn't actually that difficult to be able to survive all those other things. So you could just keep chugging potions until you get a 00 on the roll. On average, that would require drinking 200 potions (100 of each type), so this could be priced at 100x the cost of a single potion to get a permanent ability. Since personal range spells can't be made into potions at all, and typically only 3rd level or lower spells can be put into them, what does that leave us with for the best effects?

And since this was posted on April Fool's Day... are we really supposed to take it seriously? :P

Edit: My probability was way off. If you mixed 160 potions, you'd have about an 80% chance of one of the mixtures giving a result of "permanent" on the chart. To have a 50% chance, you need to mix aout 70. So let's just say we'll spend 160x the cost of a single potion to get our permanence effect.

Haste seems like a decent one, as does Fly. Using the 160x multiplier, a permanent Haste potion would cost about 124,000 gp, if we don't have any abilities to reroll, etc. Since Boots of Speed only cost 12,000 gp, and nothing prevents us from buying multiple pairs, it seems that our permanent haste potion is terribly overpriced.  Fly isn't worth it either, especially when you factor in the cost of a wand of Overland Flight or something.

Even if you could make potions of 9th level spells, you're better off just buying a staff with that spell and sticking ranks in UMD, because the price is going to be prohibitive.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on November 16, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Interesting... so it isn't actually that difficult to be able to survive all those other things. So you could just keep chugging potions until you get a 00 on the roll. On average, that would require drinking 200 potions (100 of each type), so this could be priced at 100x the cost of a single potion to get a permanent ability. Since personal range spells can't be made into potions at all, and typically only 3rd level or lower spells can be put into them, what does that leave us with for the best effects?

And since this was posted on April Fool's Day... are we really supposed to take it seriously? :P

Seems safer to mix them outside and from a distance, then drink it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on November 16, 2012, 04:25:57 PM
Instead of potions for level 3 spells, it's cheaper to use luck stones from Ghostwalk which let you reroll an anything once for 1000 gp. Also handy for warp touch.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 16, 2012, 07:13:15 PM
Instead of potions for level 3 spells, it's cheaper to use luck stones from Ghostwalk which let you reroll an anything once for 1000 gp. Also handy for warp touch.

The article states that the DM secretly rolls. Phaant's Luckstone is as the Luck Domain power, wherein you must choose to use it before the DM declares success or failure. So no dice on either Potion Mixing or Warp Touch with those.
I assure you, I've been looking into means to control Warp Touch for a while. Phaant's Luckstone doesn't work for it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on November 16, 2012, 07:51:00 PM
Instead of potions for level 3 spells, it's cheaper to use luck stones from Ghostwalk which let you reroll an anything once for 1000 gp. Also handy for warp touch.

The article states that the DM secretly rolls. Phaant's Luckstone is as the Luck Domain power, wherein you must choose to use it before the DM declares success or failure. So no dice on either Potion Mixing or Warp Touch with those.
I assure you, I've been looking into means to control Warp Touch for a while. Phaant's Luckstone doesn't work for it.

Except the saving throw roll and table roll are separate, with only the saving throw roll being secret. The table roll is also not a roll with a given success or failure, simply a table of symptoms, so you there's no success or failure to stop you from viewing it before deciding to reroll.
EDIT: For warp touch that is, you're correct for the potions.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on November 16, 2012, 10:15:11 PM
And since this was posted on April Fool's Day... are we really supposed to take it seriously? :P
It is a direct reprint from the 2e DMG...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 17, 2012, 03:24:18 AM
Amulet of Second Chances could save you lots of money in the long run, especially if you can mix and drink multiple high-level potions in the same round (like with extra actions or that Tail Hand feat)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 19, 2012, 01:18:18 AM
This is only applicable to a high-level dragon that gets "good" spellcasting advancement, but fun nonetheless.

According to the Draconomicon, dragons that have reached the Old age category are allowed to take Epic feats that they qualify for.

Red Dragon + Antimagic Field + Widen Spell + Arcane Thesis (Antimagic Field) + Permanent Emanation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#permanentEmanation) epic feat.

Pesky wizards trying to one-shot you with nasty spells?  Now you can turn on an antimagic field at the end of your turn.  When your turn comes up again, turn it off as a free action, act, then bring the AMF back on-line as a free action at the end of your turn.  Lather, rise, repeat, dominate the world.

Note: Widen spell is required due to the fact that creatures larger that Large size are basically screwed when they try to use AMF.  Sculpt Spell doesn't help, because that would stop it from being centered on you, and merely be a stationary effect with a range of 5 feet.

Versatile Spellcaster could probably help bring this on-line a bit faster, too.
Edit: Actually, I don't think Versatile Spellcaster will help, since it has to be a spell that you know that is one level higher (technically a 5th level spell with a +2 metamagic applied to it is still a 5th level spell; thus you can't use Versatile Spellcaster to cast it with two 6th level slots?)
Edit 2: Google has proved me wrong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221722#post12170059).

Practical Metamagic (also from Races of the Dragon) would help you pull this off, however.

So, Versatile Spellcaster, plus either Arcane Thesis (AMF) or Practical Metamagic (Widen Spell) would get this down to a 7th level spell slot, which you can cast with two 6th level spell slots.  Thus CL 12th.

This makes it obtainable for all the Chromatic dragons, even the lowly Great White Wyrm.

Edit 3:  Found one flaw.  Spellcraft (25 ranks required for permanent emanation) isn't an automatic skill for all true dragons.  It is only an additional class skill for Blue Dragons.  Unless there is a way to get Spellcraft as a class skill, this is generally unobtainable.

Edit 4:  Loredrake to the rescue...  Loredrake would allow you to qualify for Permanent Emanation earlier anyway, so you might as well just go that route.  It would save you one of the above feats, and then you just take Improved Toughness to make up for the lessened hit die size.

Edit 5:  The Keeper of Forbidden Lore abyssal heritor feat also adds Spellcraft (and Know: Planes) as a class skill.  Sort of an odd feat, thematically, for a Dragon, however.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 19, 2012, 01:43:24 AM
That's mean  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on November 19, 2012, 07:14:28 PM
The unerring strike feat (Kingdoms of Kalamar) lets you subtract a number from your damage and add it to your attack roll.  It's limited by your base attack bonus and only works with light and one-handed weapons. 

Power attack gives 2 to 1 returns not just with two-handed weapons, but also with one-handed weapons wielded in two hands.  There's also leap attack and improved/supreme power attack.  Maybe even favored power attack if you have something broad like arcanist or evil as a favored enemy. 

You wind up with less damage than if you'd used shock trooper to mitigate the attack penalty, but you're not reliant on charging. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on November 19, 2012, 07:59:59 PM
Or combine with Shock Trooper for increased attack AND damage...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 19, 2012, 08:40:18 PM
Could you add some type of Combat Expertise to do all three?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 19, 2012, 09:27:45 PM
Do I have the right version? My Kingdoms of Kalamar has Unerring Strike on page 92 and says nothing about One-Handed or Light weapons. Publish date 2002m aking it 3.0 material and "Kingdoms of Kalamar 3.5" gets hits mostly about forum users updating it rather than the original publishers.

Anyway, Exotic Weapon Master comes to mind. You flat out treat a One-Hander as a Two-Hander for Power Attack so problem solved.
1. Shock Trooper Power Attack, -20 AC, +40 Damage.
2. Unerring Strike, -20 Damage, +20 Attack. Puts you at +20 Attack, +20 Damage, -20 AC.
3. Improved Combat Expertise, -20 Attack, +20 AC. Puts you at a grand total +0 Attack, +20 Damage, & +0 AC.
Not bad, till you consider the real penalty. You probably have more than one level in Fighter...

One thing to note through.
Bite of the WearBear gives Power Attack.
Battle Ax Of The Bull gives Improved Bullrush.
Heroics gives Shock Trooper.
Unerring Strike only requires Dex 13. So as a spellcaster wanting to murder people with a sword, taking the combo to #2 solves any hit problems making you a melee glass cannon.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on November 19, 2012, 10:44:45 PM
Do I have the right version?

I'm looking at Kingdoms of Kalamar: Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands, published in 2006.  The company website (http://www.kenzerco.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28_43&products_id=368) indicates it's the 3.5 update of Kingdoms of Kalamar: Player's Guide. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on November 20, 2012, 05:29:33 PM
Do I have the right version? My Kingdoms of Kalamar has Unerring Strike on page 92 and says nothing about One-Handed or Light weapons. Publish date 2002m aking it 3.0 material and "Kingdoms of Kalamar 3.5" gets hits mostly about forum users updating it rather than the original publishers.

Anyway, Exotic Weapon Master comes to mind. You flat out treat a One-Hander as a Two-Hander for Power Attack so problem solved.
1. Shock Trooper Power Attack, -20 AC, +40 Damage.
2. Unerring Strike, -20 Damage, +20 Attack. Puts you at +20 Attack, +20 Damage, -20 AC.
3. Improved Combat Expertise, -20 Attack, +20 AC. Puts you at a grand total +0 Attack, +20 Damage, & +0 AC.
Not bad, till you consider the real penalty. You probably have more than one level in Fighter...

One thing to note through.
Bite of the WearBear gives Power Attack.
Battle Ax Of The Bull gives Improved Bullrush.
Heroics gives Shock Trooper.
Unerring Strike only requires Dex 13. So as a spellcaster wanting to murder people with a sword, taking the combo to #2 solves any hit problems making you a melee glass cannon.

If you're a wizard, you can hire a few low level human fighters with those feats and just mirror-move all of them and persist it.  Great use of leadership.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 20, 2012, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm
Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Demelain on November 22, 2012, 11:33:28 PM
Ordered Chaos (FC I) allows you to be Neutral or Lawful, but "Spells and effects that are keyed off of your alignment affect you as if you were chaotic, as well as your actual alignment."
According to the examples, "effects" includes magical weapon properties (Anarchic weapons are used), as well as feats (Primordial Scion is used, which requires you to be chaotic).
Note: Ordered Chaos is intended for use with Abyssal Heritor feats, but does not require you to have Abyssal Heritor feats to begin with. It just makes you chaotic AND [lawful/neutral], for most purposes.

Could be useful to get access to things which would otherwise be restricted, and an argument could be made that "effects" include PrC prerequisites.

You lot would know better than I if there is anything to be done with it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on November 23, 2012, 09:14:38 AM
Barbarian/Monk and Barbarian/Paladin just became possible multiclass options. Hooray?

Might be interesting for one or two spells in Complete Champion (Interfaith Blessing? That the one I'm looking for?), which have varied effects based on the target's and your own alignments.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on November 23, 2012, 10:17:50 AM
Nope. Barbarian reads "who becomes lawful loses", and monk is "becomes nonlawful".

So, unfortunately, no dice there.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on November 23, 2012, 10:21:22 AM
Nope. Barbarian reads "who becomes lawful loses", and monk is "becomes nonlawful".

So, unfortunately, no dice there.
Agreed.  Ordered Chaos makes you count as both.  This will help you meet requirements of "must be X."  It actually has the likelihood to hindes your ability to take advantage of "must not be X."
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 26, 2012, 03:59:36 PM
you can play a hydra with no crazy tricks!!!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicLeadership

under the Table: Example Special Cohorts, the 12-headed hydra was effectively given a +7 (cohort) LA
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 26, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
Mastery of Chaos and Order is a funny feat. Especially if you combine it with Mastery of Night and Day (auto-maximize all Cure and Inflict spells.)

It let's you add +1d6-3 to your spell DCs, and simultaneously lets you choose to set all variable, numeric... stuff to 50% of the maximum.

It explicitly states that, if you use Empower Spell, it gives you a result as if you had actually rolled that amount.

So, basically, if you cast a Cure/Inflict spell, it deals 125% of the max damage for that spell.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on November 26, 2012, 05:25:30 PM
you can play a hydra with no crazy tricks!!!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicLeadership

under the Table: Example Special Cohorts, the 12-headed hydra was effectively given a +7 (cohort) LA
Awesome.   :love  If you don't do this for the Arena, I sure will.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 26, 2012, 07:25:20 PM
You know, an Incarnate [Insert Template Here] Warforged can go Necropolitan.

There has to be some sort of trick here (besides the fact that, if you go Warforged Juggernaut, you can grab immunity to healing spells.)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 26, 2012, 09:45:46 PM
you can play a hydra with no crazy tricks!!!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicLeadership

under the Table: Example Special Cohorts, the 12-headed hydra was effectively given a +7 (cohort) LA
Awesome.   :love  If you don't do this for the Arena, I sure will.

You haven't banned it yet? :P

Hell yeah I will!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 26, 2012, 11:21:23 PM
From Dragon Compendium:

Quote
SONG OF THE DEAD [METAMAGIC]
You can add such a powerful dose of necromantic energy
to your mind-affecting spells that they function against
undead creatures but are useless against all others.
Benefit: A mind-affecting spell modified by this feat
works normally against intelligent undead creatures.
Mindless undead (those without Intelligence scores)
are still immune to its effect, and the altered spell
has no effect against living creatures or constructs. A
song of the dead spell takes up a spell slot one level
higher than the spell's actual level. Note that the use
of this feat does not make mind-affecting spells affect
undead if the spell's description specifies that the
target must be living or of a particular creature type
(other than undead).
Any spells prepared with Song of the Dead become
necromancy spells.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on November 26, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
Oh you're immune to enchantment spells? I'll just just turn Dominate into a necromancy spell, and you're screwed.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 26, 2012, 11:48:05 PM
Yup.  Though it does only affect intelligent undead...

So: first hit someone with Veil of Undeath, and then with this.  Bypass mind blank, ahoy!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 27, 2012, 10:15:25 AM
Hmm, would it? I'm reminded of Star Mantle Evasion, in that it says "works normally against", IE bypasses the Undead type's immunity.

But the real catch here is how effects stack. You stack them in the most favorable order and unlike BoED's trick, you are not in control of all the effects in use. Your opponent always maintains the option to apply Mind Blank last, or IE Veil of Undeath makes him Undead and thus immune to Mind Affecting, Song of the Dead allows Dominate Monster to work normally against him strictly because he is Undead and not for any other reason, but then he applies Mind Blank and like his other buffs he is trying to compensate for his type based weaknesses.

It all roots back into how it's worded. Unlike Mountain Hammer or other such effects that flat out contain a notation of remove/ignore/bypass type A which ignore any ambiguity or number of effects, it says normally. Then you become so fixated on wanting to bypass immunity you forget that normal is all Undead are immune to the effect, but it isn't normal for "Undead" to be a 15th level Human Wizard Lich-thing under the effects of a specific spell that grants a global immunity to everything like type A.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 27, 2012, 10:27:37 AM
I think it works fine, since it says "works normally against intelligent undead creatures", not "bypasses an undead creature's immunity".  So even if it has immunity from more than one source, the spell still works okay.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on November 27, 2012, 12:28:13 PM
I cast my vote with SorO.
That is how I read the wording as well.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 28, 2012, 01:12:15 AM
I cast my vote with SorO.
That is how I read the wording as well.
+1. The phrase "works normally against intelligent undead creatures" obviously means that it bypasses undead immunities to fear, not that it works on an individual undead, regardless of every other rule in the game which says otherwise. It is specifically countering one immunity, not all of them.

Maybe you could argue that this is RAI, not RAW, but when RAI is so clear... what's the difference? Not reading it along the obvious RAI interpretation is basically just willful ignorance.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on November 28, 2012, 01:45:10 PM
Working normally might also include the fact that normally, mind blank stops mind affecting stuffs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 28, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Working normally might also include the fact that normally, mind blank stops mind affecting stuffs.
Sure, but what does that have anything to do with the price of underwear in Japan?

I mean, Fireball normally sets stuff on fire, wood normally burns, smoke normally floats away. You've got something that says smoke don't float away as normal. Then quite obviously that has nothing to do with spraying water on the fire or fireballing an area to make the fire or however far dispatched you are from the point in your language debate that you've ended up.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 28, 2012, 02:11:21 PM
Eh, Song of the Dead is pretty rad, but...

Fell Energy is even more spiffy:

Quote from: Dragon #312
You add a dose of raw necromantic energy to your beneficial spell, making it especially effective for undead creatures.
Benefit: Any numerical bonus granted by a spell modified with this feat increases by +2 for all undead creatures it affects. This increase does not apply to factors such as range, save DC, healing, or other numerical factors relating to a spell. Only effects described as bonuses gain this benefit. A fell energy spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on November 28, 2012, 02:51:36 PM
I have an undead druid that combines that with Ability Enhancer.  Nothing like getting +20 STR & +6 DEX from Bite of the Werebear!  Or Chasing Perfection for +8 to every stat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 28, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
I've wanted to use it for a Necropolitan Warmage for a while; ability enhancer+fell energy+Fist of Stone=+10 Str and a slam attack out of a 2nd level spell.

Not as cool as the party BSF taking two levels in Paragnostic Initiate; you cast Enlarge Person on them, and they get a +4 untyped bonus to strength with no drawbacks. Add ability enhancer to taste.

Though no-one can say no to a casting of Enhanced Shifting with Ability Enhancer and Fell Energy; let's see you get that +8 to an ability score (like WISDOM. WISDOM is an ability score that you can boost)! Untyped, of course.  You also get +2+1/4 CL to damage with your claw attacks.

Analysis: Necropolitan Dreamsight Shifter Druids are scary motherfuckers.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 28, 2012, 04:45:50 PM
My Blue Mage over in the High Arcane game uses Fell Drain & Ability Enhancer to hit like 50 Charisma by level 6 (mindful it's high op).

The Example combo takes advantage of my BM's recast mechanic to spam Eagle’s Splendor (+4->+8) and direct access to Righteous Aura. But the rest of the combo can be achieved with a little work, Fell Drain Devil's Ego (+4->+8) via Versatile Spellcaster & Runestaff, Righteous Aura (+4->+6) via Wand.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Demelain on November 29, 2012, 02:02:57 AM
The Guardian Bow [A&EG pg 109] does not provoke attacks of opportunity from most foes when fired from melee range (only the target of your attack may make an AoO). Not quite all-encompassing, but it is an ability that can be bought, if you'd like to save on some class levels. On the expensive side, though.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 29, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
Dragon #296 has the Dragonscribe PrC which, besides being a 5/5 casting class with easy prereqs (you can meet them at level 10, due to needing 13 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana))

Most of the class features kinda suck... until you hit 4th level.

What do you say to adding Celestial/Fiendish dragons to every level of the Summon Monster spell, including a Fiendish Adult Red Dragon at Summon Monster IX.

Alienists and Malconvokers are grinning so hard right now.

EDIT: Also in Dragon #296 is the Dragon Mystic, which any Dragonwrought Kobold could enter as soon as they have 3rd level spells. Make sure they grab a breath weapon from somewhere. Why?

1st class level adds class level d6 damage of the same type as your breath weapon to all damaging spells you cast.

3rd level adds +(1/2 age category) to the DCs of all Enchantment spells and spells that share a descriptor with your breath weapon's damage type.

5th level really sucks. Don't take it.

Even levels give you +1 Charisma! Wooh!

Still, it's a 5/5 caster level class.

This is why I'm going to see if I can play an old as fuck Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 6/Dragon Mystic 4/Legacy Champion 10; bring on the 1d4+12d6+1 (avg 45.5) damage Magic Missiles!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 29, 2012, 10:36:53 PM
Mentioning Dragon Mag?
MENTION THE PAGE NUMBER AS WELL
*cough* There is no cohesion in those things, on purpose. It's so you keep skimming past the same shitty ads which oddly enough, I don't really want to do.

Thanks,
~people who look up material.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on November 29, 2012, 10:58:06 PM
Dragon #296 has the Dragonscribe PrC which, besides being a 5/5 casting class with easy prereqs (you can meet them at level 10, due to needing 13 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana))

Most of the class features kinda suck... until you hit 4th level.

What do you say to adding Celestial/Fiendish dragons to every level of the Summon Monster spell, including a Fiendish Adult Red Dragon at Summon Monster IX.

Alienists and Malconvokers are grinning so hard right now.

EDIT: Also in Dragon #296 is the Dragon Mystic, which any Dragonwrought Kobold could enter as soon as they have 3rd level spells. Make sure they grab a breath weapon from somewhere. Why?

1st class level adds class level d6 damage of the same type as your breath weapon to all damaging spells you cast.

3rd level adds +(1/2 age category) to the DCs of all Enchantment spells and spells that share a descriptor with your breath weapon's damage type.

5th level really sucks. Don't take it.

Even levels give you +1 Charisma! Wooh!

Still, it's a 5/5 caster level class.

This is why I'm going to see if I can play an old as fuck Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 6/Dragon Mystic 4/Legacy Champion 10; bring on the 1d4+12d6+1 (avg 45.5) damage Magic Missiles!

It's nice that the dragon mystic doesn't require you to be a true dragon (is there a list of playable races with the dragon type anywhere?).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 29, 2012, 11:07:34 PM
Sorry; I'll post page number when I can find my copy again.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: littha on November 30, 2012, 12:34:24 AM
Dragon #296 has the Dragonscribe PrC which, besides being a 5/5 casting class with easy prereqs (you can meet them at level 10, due to needing 13 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana))

Most of the class features kinda suck... until you hit 4th level.

What do you say to adding Celestial/Fiendish dragons to every level of the Summon Monster spell, including a Fiendish Adult Red Dragon at Summon Monster IX.

Alienists and Malconvokers are grinning so hard right now.

EDIT: Also in Dragon #296 is the Dragon Mystic, which any Dragonwrought Kobold could enter as soon as they have 3rd level spells. Make sure they grab a breath weapon from somewhere. Why?

1st class level adds class level d6 damage of the same type as your breath weapon to all damaging spells you cast.

3rd level adds +(1/2 age category) to the DCs of all Enchantment spells and spells that share a descriptor with your breath weapon's damage type.

5th level really sucks. Don't take it.

Even levels give you +1 Charisma! Wooh!

Still, it's a 5/5 caster level class.

This is why I'm going to see if I can play an old as fuck Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 6/Dragon Mystic 4/Legacy Champion 10; bring on the 1d4+12d6+1 (avg 45.5) damage Magic Missiles!

It's nice that the dragon mystic doesn't require you to be a true dragon (is there a list of playable races with the dragon type anywhere?).

Depends on your definition of playable. Dragonwrought Kobolds are the go to choice but my personal favourite is Steel Dragons.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 30, 2012, 12:47:17 AM
They are on page 28-29 for the first PrC, and at about page 40 for the 2nd (I'm doing this off of memory, OK?)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 30, 2012, 07:50:25 AM
Dragon 304 pg 47-51 has Prestige Race alterations.  By taking a feat and then spending xp, you can make alterations to your body.  Most of them are crap.

However, there are a few of the more expensive ones that give you the ability to cast spells as a druid or sorcerer.  Not SLAs, not Sus, but the actual ability to cast the spells.

There has to be a way to use this for prereqs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Dkonen on November 30, 2012, 02:19:28 PM
(Ember Creature-req: sculpt self+kindled creature= cast produce flame at will  )+  Versatile Spellcaster (RotD)

= infinite spells of infinite levels?

Use extra slot(CMage) and prestige bard (UA) to make a non-bard bardic spellcaster? (ugh I need to check prereqs before posting)

*tips hat* a most excellent find.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 30, 2012, 02:44:37 PM
I don't think that works, though... do you actually have spell slots?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on November 30, 2012, 02:46:33 PM
Versatile Spellcaster (a) only lets you cast a spell 1 level higher, and (b) requires actual spell slots, which I don't think the PrRs give (and no, it can't chain off itself because it doesn't give spell slots either).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on November 30, 2012, 02:47:57 PM
Versatile Spellcaster (a) only lets you cast a spell 1 level higher, and (b) requires actual spell slots, which I don't think the PrRs give (and no, it can't chain off itself because it doesn't give spell slots either).

I don't think you can burn it to power things like Arcane Strike either.

Is it useful for anything besides "ability to cast spells of X level" prereqs?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 30, 2012, 05:04:31 PM
Versatile Spellcaster (a) only lets you cast a spell 1 level higher, and (b) requires actual spell slots, which I don't think the PrRs give (and no, it can't chain off itself because it doesn't give spell slots either).

I don't think you can burn it to power things like Arcane Strike either.

Is it useful for anything besides "ability to cast spells of X level" prereqs?
That's still pretty damned useful.  :p Presumably it should work for "Must cast spell X", as well (Mage Hand for Arcane Trickster, etc).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Dkonen on November 30, 2012, 05:06:06 PM
Since it's cast as a spell, don't you *have* to have a slot to cast it in ?

 (edited for obnoxious repetitiveness-too much caffeine-apologies)

If I'm mistaken and spells *don't* require slots to be cast, please, by all means do let me know.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on November 30, 2012, 05:37:44 PM
Since it's cast as a spell, don't you *have* to have a slot to cast it in ?

 (edited for obnoxious repetitiveness-too much caffeine-apologies)

If I'm mistaken and spells *don't* require slots to be cast, please, by all means do let me know.

If you're casting as a Druid or Sorcerer, then yes, you'd need your Druid or Sorcerer spell slots. So RAW, they're unusable as spells (which makes no sense whatsoever). I'm pretty sure they should be SLAs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on November 30, 2012, 08:14:41 PM
Dragon 304 pg 47-51 has Prestige Race alterations.  By taking a feat and then spending xp, you can make alterations to your body.  Most of them are crap.

However, there are a few of the more expensive ones that give you the ability to cast spells as a druid or sorcerer.  Not SLAs, not Sus, but the actual ability to cast the spells.

There has to be a way to use this for prereqs.

um, it says right on page 47 that any spellcasting gained via this method is considered (SU).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on November 30, 2012, 08:19:56 PM
They are on page 28-29 for the first PrC, and at about page 40 for the 2nd (I'm doing this off of memory, OK?)
Yeah something is better than nothing. It was late last night and I am Mr Meanpants. Dragon stuff really does need a page number if possible, it's a pain to find stuff at times :(
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on November 30, 2012, 08:30:53 PM
Dragon 304 pg 47-51 has Prestige Race alterations.  By taking a feat and then spending xp, you can make alterations to your body.  Most of them are crap.

However, there are a few of the more expensive ones that give you the ability to cast spells as a druid or sorcerer.  Not SLAs, not Sus, but the actual ability to cast the spells.

There has to be a way to use this for prereqs.

um, it says right on page 47 that any spellcasting gained via this method is considered (SU).

Well, that's a convenient (and AoO-less and SR-less) resolution to this discussion.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on November 30, 2012, 09:38:00 PM
They are on page 28-29 for the first PrC, and at about page 40 for the 2nd (I'm doing this off of memory, OK?)
Yeah something is better than nothing. It was late last night and I am Mr Meanpants. Dragon stuff really does need a page number if possible, it's a pain to find stuff at times :(

It's OK; I'll make sure that I list page number next time, since I know how annoying it is to try to hunt through the mags...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on December 02, 2012, 02:12:08 AM
Here's one straight from the SRD! Incense of Meditation lets you prepare all of your spells with a free Maximize for only 4900g. Divine casters only, but that's just a UMD away. Among other things, that means an extra -1 level on any Arcane Thesis spell. And, you know, free Maximize.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 03:16:02 AM
Dear. God. That is nice.

Grab some, go into Wild Mage, take Mastery of Order and Chaos, and laugh as you get a free +3 CL and +3 DC.

If, of course, random CL and DC count as a variable, numeric effect. I would argue that they do, but eh, your call.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 02, 2012, 09:59:46 AM
If, of course, random CL and DC count as a variable, numeric effect. I would argue that they do, but eh, your call.
I highly doubt you could make a good argument for Maximize applying to the CL and DC on a Wild Mage.  For starters, that effect isn't a property of the spell, but rather you.  Secondly, read Maximize spell (from the PHB, not the SRD):
Quote from: From Maximize Spell, PHB p. 97
... Saving throws and opposed rolls (such as the one you make when you cast dispel magic) are not affected...

Saving Throws = Spell DC
Caster Level check on dispel magic is pretty darn close to just CL rolls in general.  You might squeak it by a DM, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 10:04:32 AM
Saving throws and spell DCs have about the same equivalency as attack rolls and AC.

They aren't the same thing at all.

So, in essence, that note has nothing to do with anything.

Also, I'll give you the CL one, but I think the DC one might work... the feat's text indicates that you are modifying the spell itself with the randomized DC.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 02, 2012, 11:05:21 AM
So, in essence, that note has nothing to do with anything.
That bears repeating.
I highly doubt you could make a good argument for Maximize applying to the CL and DC on a Wild Mage.  For starters, that effect isn't a property of the spell, but rather you.

All Metamagic Feats modify the "spell its self", and thousands of Class Abilities due too, see also arcane spell failure chance makes spell it's self totally fail. What matters is Maximize Spell ONLY changes the spell's effects, not your Class Features (your own post), not your Feats (see empower&maximize), or anything of the like (FAQ pg91).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 12:13:31 PM
Is there a hard rule on that anywhere?

Not that that isn't a convincing argument, but goddamnit, there should be a definite answer that doesn't involve splitting hairs with metamagic.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 02, 2012, 01:03:06 PM
Is there a hard rule on that anywhere?

Not that that isn't a convincing argument, but goddamnit, there should be a definite answer that doesn't involve splitting hairs with metamagic.

Actually, Maximize covers this without splitting hairs. "All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized." Why on earth would you think a Class Feature would be affected by a Feat that only applies to Spells to begin with? You're not TML so sit down and think things through logically. Like: A modifies the caster level of Z, B modifies the save DC of Z, C changes variable outcomes of Z. Is there an interaction of C with A & B?

Also as mentioned before, the FAQ uses more words to tell you the same exact thing.
Quote from: FAQ pg91
Do metamagic effects apply to creatures summoned by summoning spell? For example, does a monster summoned by a maximized summon monster spell have maximum hit points?
No. The metamagic effect applies only to the specific rules of the spell itself -- the spell’s range, its casting time, the variable number of creatures summoned, and so forth -- not to the monsters it brings.
For example, an extended summon monster I would double the duration that the monsters remain, but wouldn’t have any effect on the durations of the monsters’ special powers.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 01:21:01 PM
Mastery of Order and Chaos is a feat, but yes, it seems that you are right.

Jolly good.

(What does TML stand for? I don't speak acronyms/abbreviations very well.)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 02, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
Mastery of Order and Chaos is a feat, but yes, it seems that you are right.

Jolly good.

(What does TML stand for? I don't speak acronyms/abbreviations very well.)
TML is short for a forum poster, The_Mad_L-something, he is the one that it didn't matter what you wanted to build or what you were doing he went out of his way to tell you to play a Savage Ghost and apply Chain Spell to Unseen Hand's Class Feature to Full-Attack using Colossal++ weapons via Telekinesis because who cares after DR it sucks worse than most forms of Fireball. I think he wrote a handbook after losing an argument with me just to tweak public opinion or a least that's the story I'm going to stick to.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on December 02, 2012, 02:35:16 PM
TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on December 02, 2012, 03:08:48 PM
TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.

Isn't he still around?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on December 02, 2012, 03:25:46 PM
TML = The Mad Linguist. He was big on ghosts with telekinesis. His avatar was a Myconid with a guitar.

Isn't he still around?
He hasn't been active since May.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on December 02, 2012, 09:08:05 PM
huh, i think i ported that handbook... if i did, and if there is such a glaring error still in it, let me know, and i'll add editorial text to clarify.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 09:25:09 PM
Guys, I just found a pretty sweet feat for summoners.

Stalwart Planar Ally gives a creature that you summon from any plane that has a Planar Touchstone that you've attuned to a +4 to AC, +4 to all saves, and it doubles the effect's duration. If a creature just specifies a range of planes (like any good aligned plane), the effects apply to any creature that you summon that doesn't have any opposing alignment components.

This... is kinda rad, especially since the non-Planar Touchstone requirements are Cha 13 and Spellcraft 5.

It's in the Planar Handbook, for those of you who are curious.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 02, 2012, 10:36:45 PM
Guys, I just found a pretty sweet feat for summoners.

Stalwart Planar Ally gives a creature that you summon from any plane that has a Planar Touchstone that you've attuned to a +4 to AC, +4 to all saves, and it doubles the effect's duration. If a creature just specifies a range of planes (like any good aligned plane), the effects apply to any creature that you summon that doesn't have any opposing alignment components.

This... is kinda rad, especially since the non-Planar Touchstone requirements are Cha 13 and Spellcraft 5.

It's in the Planar Handbook, for those of you who are curious.
Considering how awesome Planar Touchstone is as a feat anyway, this is pretty nice...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 02, 2012, 11:18:44 PM
No kidding. How would you like a Cleric Domain power, and 3 times per vist cast spells from said Domain regardless of what class you are? Heck, pick a Domain with Planeshift and you can recharge it by your self. Instantly any Fighter has a set of extremely limited, but still frigging awesome, Cleric Spells to cast.

Or maybe you are a Cleric. Think you can make a DC 25 Balance check (hint, use spider walk)? If so, free 1/day Resurrection if you die assuming you keep recharging it. Bonus uber DR 1 too.

Too spell like? No biggy. If an opponent is Flat-Footed, how would you like to take a -5 penalty to Attack to get an extra attack per round? Wording is kind of like Snap Kick, so it applies on AoOs as well. Stacks with Snap Kick to, just pick up Roiler's Gambit and as possible combo attack someone three times in a row each and every time they try to attack you once. Man, I sure hope they didn't use a Full-Attack action...

Planar Touchstone is a fun find, deserving to be noted more than once.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on December 02, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
No kidding. How would you like a Cleric Domain power, and 3 6 times per vist cast spells from said Domain regardless of what class you are? Heck, pick a Domain with Planeshift and you can recharge it by your self. Instantly any Fighter has a set of extremely limited, but still frigging awesome, Cleric Spells to cast.

Or maybe you are a Cleric. Think you can make a DC 25 Balance check (hint, use spider walk)? If so, free 1 2 1/day Resurrection if you die assuming you keep recharging it. Bonus uber DR 1 too.

I fixed that for you; you did take this feat, right? (http://dndtools.eu/feats/planar-handbook--79/personal-touchstone--2146/)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on December 04, 2012, 12:43:54 PM
from "shattered gates of slaughtergarde", mildly interesting:

* serene guardian:
-immune to fear (7th)
-no weekly limit equivalent to quivering palm, plus bonus effects. (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, open to almost any class)

* solar channeler:
-expend turn attempt to cast cure 'x' as swift, or at range. (1)
-stacks with turning source. (all)
-transform into a combat oriented solar. (5+)

* dark scholar:
-add +1CL to various schools and/or saves. (various)
-use divine scrolls as if cleric of your arcane caster level. (know:planes 18+ ranks)

* twisted lord:
-become genan shiranui (http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Genan_Shiranui), more or less, minus the claw gauntlet. (all)

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 04, 2012, 12:50:05 PM
Stolen from here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793.msg131351#msg131351):

In Underdark, there's a section on Magimorphic rock, and then the spell Stone Metamorphosis (clr/dru 4, instantaneous).

My favorite magimorphic rock is Sickstone, which illuminates out to 40 feet; any creature within the illumination must make a Fort save DC 15 every round or suffer 1d6 Con damage, and 1 Con damage on a successful save.

So, for 292gp, you can buy a bullseye lantern and pay a cleric to metamorphose your chunk of granite into sickstone.  Now you have a 40-foot cone of Con damage to carry around.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on December 04, 2012, 01:37:30 PM
Wow, they really buffed that spell. The original (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20021025a) was 7th/8th level and only lasted 1 round/level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 04, 2012, 04:13:15 PM
I think I need that spell in the High Arcana...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 04, 2012, 05:37:47 PM
WTF... instantaneous?!  :twitch Wow... the new "must have" for any undead army!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on December 07, 2012, 03:36:48 AM
Dragon 357

"Being proficient with a weapon is the same thing as having the appropriate Weapon Proficiency feat"

...Thanks Sage!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 07, 2012, 01:55:21 PM
Wasn't that proved else where in the Dark Chaos shuffle?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on December 09, 2012, 07:19:47 PM
No kidding. How would you like a Cleric Domain power, and 3 6 times per vist cast spells from said Domain regardless of what class you are? Heck, pick a Domain with Planeshift and you can recharge it by your self. Instantly any Fighter has a set of extremely limited, but still frigging awesome, Cleric Spells to cast.

Or maybe you are a Cleric. Think you can make a DC 25 Balance check (hint, use spider walk)? If so, free 1 2 1/day Resurrection if you die assuming you keep recharging it. Bonus uber DR 1 too.

I fixed that for you; you did take this feat, right? (http://dndtools.eu/feats/planar-handbook--79/personal-touchstone--2146/)

Quote from: NiteCyper, http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7589.msg250060#msg250060
Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment), its higher order ability. WARNING: it is only vaguely mentioned; the rules governing its use are non-existent, it simply states you get to cast like a Cleric. Use only if you have a GM willing to work with you for it.

Reference material: Planar Handbook and Sandstorm > pages 41-42, 153-154, 166-167 and 53-54 (8) > the Touchstone feats, touchstones introductions, and the "The Catalogues of Enlightenment" planar touchstone http://imageshack.us/g/502/san54tssiteshrnatkahar.png/

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on December 17, 2012, 04:43:52 PM
Phase Door, in core, lasts until used. You can pepper your halls with this thing, casting it during downtime, and then if/when combat breaks out, you can basically walk through all the walls you want. It also serves as a wonderful hiding place, as unless you are ejected via a successful dispel, you're on the ethereal plane inside a solid material object's location, which makes it hard to be attacked. Think of it as a location-linked contingent Ethereal Jaunt with multiple uses that you can bring your friends through.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on December 17, 2012, 11:48:24 PM
Another random Dragon find:

Dragon 320 has dragons as playable classes (Perfect saves, Full BAB, d12 HD, and a bunch of special abilities.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 18, 2012, 12:23:29 AM
Another random Dragon find:

Dragon 320 has dragons as playable classes (Perfect saves, Full BAB, d12 HD, and a bunch of special abilities.

That same issue has a section called "Racial Transformations" detailing several sub races, most of which gain bonus feats (dwarfs get a bonus feat as a human, Elves get 2 Weapon Focuses (one melee, one ranged), Gnomes get Alertness (ooh  :rolleyes), and Halflings get Dodge and one of Iron Will, Great Fortitute, or Lightning Reflexes.  Humans trade their bonus feat for +2 to one ability score.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TiaC on December 18, 2012, 10:25:36 PM
Dragon 304 has some nice feats on pages 83-85. I especially like the throwing feats.
There are four:
Heft:1.5 Str to damage
Windup:Effectively power attack with thrown weapons
Rout:Free bull rush on any attack with thrown weapons(5ft max), great with an AOO build in the party
Bowl Over:Free Trip on any attack with thrown weapons
The article also has Dead Eye which is Dex to Damage with ranged weapons within 30'
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on December 20, 2012, 01:33:15 AM
The voice of the mage feat (Dragon 359, p125) allows you to speak and be heard by all creatures within a mile.  The possibilities for screaming obscenities are truly staggering, but it could also be used with diplomancy or bardic music.  Unfortunately, it requires an arcane caster level of 16. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 20, 2012, 01:12:36 PM
I like that whole section
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 20, 2012, 01:32:02 PM
If you're a DN planning on becoming a Necropolitan, you should look into the Bloodtouched Rite (PGtE, pg 23).  It doesn't say whether you can benefit from it more than once, but even if you can't then it's still a great find: bonus hp = cha bonus, and +1 CL with necromancy spells. (other, less interesting effects as well.)

The Hashalaq Ancestor feat (PGtE, pg 83) gives psion manifesting to an otherwise non-manifester [1 1st-level power only], not as a psi-like ability but actual manifesting.  Could be nice for getting into psionic prcs with crappy manifesting progressions.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on December 20, 2012, 03:38:46 PM
If you're a DN planning on becoming a Necropolitan, you should look into the Bloodtouched Rite (PGtE, pg 23).  It doesn't say whether you can benefit from it more than once, but even if you can't then it's still a great find: bonus hp = cha bonus, and +1 CL with necromancy spells. (other, less interesting effects as well.)

The Hashalaq Ancestor feat (PGtE, pg 83) gives psion manifesting to an otherwise non-manifester [1 1st-level power only], not as a psi-like ability but actual manifesting.  Could be nice for getting into psionic prcs with crappy manifesting progressions.

Hashalaq Ancestor feat  (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-eberron--13/hashalaq-ancestor--1344/)
only give Empathy power to Kalashtar at 1st level
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on December 20, 2012, 03:39:53 PM
Dragon 304 has some nice feats on pages 83-85. I especially like the throwing feats.
There are four:
Heft:1.5 Str to damage
Windup:Effectively power attack with thrown weapons
Rout:Free bull rush on any attack with thrown weapons(5ft max), great with an AOO build in the party
Bowl Over:Free Trip on any attack with thrown weapons
The article also has Dead Eye which is Dex to Damage with ranged weapons within 30'

Could use a bit of an update to 3.5 though.  Brutal Throw (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-adventurer--54/brutal-throw--278/) makes a thrower SAD on strength and leads into Power Throw (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Power_Throw) which is the same as Windup there but with more prereqs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Tohron on December 20, 2012, 08:52:55 PM
The voice of the mage feat (Dragon 359, p125) allows you to speak and be heard by all creatures within a mile.  The possibilities for screaming obscenities are truly staggering, but it could also be used with diplomancy or bardic music.  Unfortunately, it requires an arcane caster level of 16.

Bards get full CL though, right?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 21, 2012, 03:34:05 AM
What would happen if you enhance a Warbringer's Rod with Aptitude?  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on December 21, 2012, 03:38:08 AM
What would happen if you enhance a Warbringer's Rod with Aptitude?  :twitch

CAN you enhance a rod with Aptitude?  Or anything, for that matter? 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on December 21, 2012, 04:29:02 AM
What would happen if you enhance a Warbringer's Rod with Aptitude?  :twitch

CAN you enhance a rod with Aptitude?  Or anything, for that matter?

"Description: A warbringer's rod is a heavy bar of iron with
a steel head at the top. The head is flanged, allowing it to
function as a mace."
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on December 21, 2012, 10:14:20 AM
Would it get double benefits from things, since it would affect it twice? Or even three times with the War Domain organization?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on December 21, 2012, 11:51:03 AM
Would it get double benefits from things, since it would affect it twice? Or even three times with the War Domain organization?

Each one has the same text that allows your feat to affect it as though it were the weapon chosen for the feat.

So let me ask you, what happens when you take Weapon Focus (longsword) twice? Insofar as, what bonus do you get?

+1, no more. Because the feat doesn't stack with itself.

What's more is, both abilities allow the weapon to count as that which you have the feat for. Thusly, adding a "second layer" of this does nothing, because it is already counted as such.

So the abilities do not stack, and you would still not gain any benefit if they did.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Noliar on December 22, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
Stolen from here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793.msg131351#msg131351):

In Underdark, there's a section on Magimorphic rock, and then the spell Stone Metamorphosis (clr/dru 4, instantaneous).

My favorite magimorphic rock is Sickstone, which illuminates out to 40 feet; any creature within the illumination must make a Fort save DC 15 every round or suffer 1d6 Con damage, and 1 Con damage on a successful save.

So, for 292gp, you can buy a bullseye lantern and pay a cleric to metamorphose your chunk of granite into sickstone.  Now you have a 40-foot cone of Con damage to carry around.

I think my undead army is going to have units with hardened sickstone weapons. Talking of sickstone weapons, a dagger or arrowhead designed to shatter in the wound would be an excellent assassin's weapon. Easier to handle than green slime too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on December 22, 2012, 08:54:03 PM
Dragon Mag #340 (article Eye of the Night) has:

~The Moon-warded Ranger sub levels, which gives Wis to AC as a monk at 2nd level in place of Combat Style;
~Lunar Rogue sub levels, which give Rage 1/day as a barbarian in place of uncanny dodge, polymorph or greater invisibility 1/day in place of improved uncanny dodge, and dominate person or true seeing 1/day in place of the first special ability.
~A few feats which grant SLAs
~Moon's Change spell, gives +2-+6 enhancement bonuses to Str, Dex, and Con for 1 round/level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 25, 2012, 04:13:19 PM
Faiths and Pantheons fun finds (some good, some not).

Auspician has an interesting TO element. At the 8th level you obtain Permanent Effusion, a Ex ability that permanently grants a +1 luck bonus. Now go back and read that. Yes, the ability isn't giving the +1 bonus which means it would be lost if removed It gives a permanent bonus each time it's obtained. Hello retraining abuse.

Techsmith's Explosive Obsession (pg 208) lets you create renaissance level bombs.
Move action to light, 15ft range, 2d8 damage (dc 15 relf halves), 150gp per.
Obtainable in a truly open market, little expensive but wrapping a bunch together sounds awesome.

Waveservant gains tentacles. ...Yeah.

The Wearer of Purple is as terrible as it sounds. It's another dragon rider PrC except it's possibly one of the worst things ever written till Complete Psionic came out. It appears meant for Cleric only as it gives you the capstone ability to use your Rebuke Undead on Dragons, but a Sorcerer can enter it and this ten level long PrC never advances your Rebuking. In other words, your HD limit is so limited you can't Command most Tiny True Dragons, good luck finding an appropriate mount. :rolleyes

And lastly.
Chosen of Bane.
I don't get any forum hits for ENWorld, GitP, BG, or here on page 1 in google search. Like zip, nadda, NONE. Can you believe it?

What is it? A 3.0 acquired template, fluffed to be only one in the world at a time. +4 CR, no LA (it's 3.0, no such thing as LA).
What does it give? Couple of SLAs (notably Dominate Monster & Geas), +10 to Charisma, ChaMod/day Summon Monster IX like effect that summons a CR 13 Undead mother-fracking Beholder.

Give it to a 1HD commoner, CR 5 my ass.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on December 26, 2012, 01:47:16 PM
The xorvintaal template from MM5 gives some pretty cool abilities to any True Dragon.  In exchange, said dragon loses its spell casting ability, and its spell resistance.

The planar dragons from the Draconomicon are true dragons that don't gain spellcasting.  Give them the template and the Awaken Spell Resistance feat, and they've lost almost nothing, and gained a whole lot for no adjustment to their CR.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: NiteCyper on December 27, 2012, 07:17:29 AM
Another random Dragon find:

Dragon 320 has dragons as playable classes (Perfect saves, Full BAB, d12 HD, and a bunch of special abilities.

That same issue has a section called "Racial Transformations" detailing several sub races, most of which gain bonus feats (dwarfs get a bonus feat as a human, Elves get 2 Weapon Focuses (one melee, one ranged), Gnomes get Alertness (ooh  :rolleyes), and Halflings get Dodge and one of Iron Will, Great Fortitute, or Lightning Reflexes.  Humans trade their bonus feat for +2 to one ability score.

http://imageshack.us/g/35/d320p87wftr4hlflns2hmns.png/
Dragon Magazine issue #320 > pages 84-87 (4) > Silicon Sorcery by Clifford Horowitz > Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Racial Transformations > Exiled Dwarves, Declining Elves, Techno Gnomes, Unsheltered Halflings, and Complacent Humans (http://imageshack.us/g/35/d320p87wftr4hlflns2hmns.png/)

Dragon 304 has some nice feats on pages 83-85. I especially like the throwing feats.
There are four:
Heft:1.5 Str to damage
Windup:Effectively power attack with thrown weapons
Rout:Free bull rush on any attack with thrown weapons(5ft max), great with an AOO build in the party
Bowl Over:Free Trip on any attack with thrown weapons
The article also has Dead Eye which is Dex to Damage with ranged weapons within 30'

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/
Dragon Compendium, Volume I & errata > pg. 95 > Feats > Dead Eye feat (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/)

Dragon Mag #340 (article Eye of the Night) has:

~The Moon-warded Ranger sub levels, which gives Wis to AC as a monk at 2nd level in place of Combat Style;
~Lunar Rogue sub levels, which give Rage 1/day as a barbarian in place of uncanny dodge, polymorph or greater invisibility 1/day in place of improved uncanny dodge, and dominate person or true seeing 1/day in place of the first special ability.
~A few feats which grant SLAs
~Moon's Change spell, gives +2-+6 enhancement bonuses to Str, Dex, and Con for 1 round/level.

http://img405.imageshack.us/g/d340p57eotn7.png/

Those were sitting in my albums index.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 29, 2013, 01:07:19 PM
Found a cool Magical Location I'll be tossing in the second Class Booster post.

The Cave of Gems (Mysteries of the Moonsea pg43) permanently bestows Frost, Flaming, or Shocking on any Masterwork Weapon for 2k. This is a static 2k ability cost not +1.

For instance, a +5 Flaming Longsword costs 72,000gp, whereas a +5 Longsword granted Flaming by Cave of Gems is 52,000gp or even better a +5 Longsword granted Flaming, Frost and Shocking is 56,000gp. :D

It breaths a little usage life into the Elemental abilities imo.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zaxter on January 31, 2013, 02:31:20 PM
Deadfall (Spell Compendium) is a pretty awesome blast spell that I don't think I've seen mentioned before. No save (at least against the damage), no SR, no attack roll, untyped damage -- everything in the area just gets hit, and for a pretty substantial amount too. The only save it offers is Reflex Partial, meaning that neither evasion nor mettle is effective against it. Could be good at epic levels when everything has tons of resistances/SR/saves.

Only downsides are the high level (and Druid only) and the fact that it can't hit things more than 40 feet off the ground (unless your DM judges it to work with Sculpt Spell -- technically it's an effect spell, not area).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on January 31, 2013, 09:11:38 PM
My new favorite exotic weapon: the war spikard (MoE 138) is a warhammer with a spring-loaded mechanism built in.  You load an xbow bolt into it as a move action (which does indeed speed up if you have the Rapid Reload feat), and then the next time you attack with it, the xbow bolt discharges into the enemy.

Why is this awesome? Well, I'll tell you.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on January 31, 2013, 09:17:41 PM
Unfortunately, enchanting the bolts doesn't do anything. It's not an attack, you just deal bonus damage equal to the weapon's base damage. That's still pretty nice though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on January 31, 2013, 09:59:14 PM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/
Dragon Compendium, Volume I & errata > pg. 95 > Feats > Dead Eye feat (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/)
mother of god... look at divine conduit! Now you can get DMM:Persists from your cohort!  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on February 01, 2013, 12:03:14 AM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/
Dragon Compendium, Volume I & errata > pg. 95 > Feats > Dead Eye feat (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/)
mother of god... look at divine conduit! Now you can get DMM:Persists from your cohort!  :lmao
Cohort?!  You can have your first level followers get that!  Damn it, Skip!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 01, 2013, 02:48:55 AM
Unfortunately, enchanting the bolts doesn't do anything. It's not an attack, you just deal bonus damage equal to the weapon's base damage. That's still pretty nice though.

What about the Arrowsplit spell (or the other arrow/bolt spells in Champions of Ruin) ?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 01, 2013, 08:39:28 AM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/
Dragon Compendium, Volume I & errata > pg. 95 > Feats > Dead Eye feat (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/dcvi95feats8deeysherrat.png/)
mother of god... look at divine conduit! Now you can get DMM:Persists from your cohort!  :lmao
Cohort?!  You can have your first level followers get that!  Damn it, Skip!
LOL, yeah... ALL of them!  :lol :lmao
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on February 01, 2013, 08:44:27 AM
Unfortunately, enchanting the bolts doesn't do anything. It's not an attack, you just deal bonus damage equal to the weapon's base damage. That's still pretty nice though.

What about the Arrowsplit spell (or the other arrow/bolt spells in Champions of Ruin) ?
You never actually attack with the bolt, and its own damage isn't used. The bolt is just consumed.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 01, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
Faiths and Pantheons fun finds (some good, some not).

Auspician has an interesting TO element. At the 8th level you obtain Permanent Effusion, a Ex ability that permanently grants a +1 luck bonus. Now go back and read that. Yes, the ability isn't giving the +1 bonus which means it would be lost if removed It gives a permanent bonus each time it's obtained. Hello retraining abuse.

Techsmith's Explosive Obsession (pg 208) lets you create renaissance level bombs.
Move action to light, 15ft range, 2d8 damage (dc 15 relf halves), 150gp per.
Obtainable in a truly open market, little expensive but wrapping a bunch together sounds awesome.

Waveservant gains tentacles. ...Yeah.

The Wearer of Purple is as terrible as it sounds. It's another dragon rider PrC except it's possibly one of the worst things ever written till Complete Psionic came out. It appears meant for Cleric only as it gives you the capstone ability to use your Rebuke Undead on Dragons, but a Sorcerer can enter it and this ten level long PrC never advances your Rebuking. In other words, your HD limit is so limited you can't Command most Tiny True Dragons, good luck finding an appropriate mount. :rolleyes

And lastly.
Chosen of Bane.
I don't get any forum hits for ENWorld, GitP, BG, or here on page 1 in google search. Like zip, nadda, NONE. Can you believe it?

What is it? A 3.0 acquired template, fluffed to be only one in the world at a time. +4 CR, no LA (it's 3.0, no such thing as LA).
What does it give? Couple of SLAs (notably Dominate Monster & Geas), +10 to Charisma, ChaMod/day Summon Monster IX like effect that summons a CR 13 Undead mother-fracking Beholder.

Give it to a 1HD commoner, CR 5 my ass.

Boggles my mind they can give the ability to summon a CR13 monster to a template that's only +4 CR.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Arz on February 01, 2013, 02:10:24 PM
My new favorite exotic weapon: the war spikard (MoE 138) is a warhammer with a spring-loaded mechanism built in.  You load an xbow bolt into it as a move action (which does indeed speed up if you have the Rapid Reload feat), and then the next time you attack with it, the xbow bolt discharges into the enemy.

Why is this awesome? Well, I'll tell you.
  • You can do fun shenanigans by enchanting your xbow bolts.  Spell storing? Check.  Splitting? Check. Exit wound? Check.
  • The amount of damage that the bolt deals is equal to the base damage of the war spikard, not on some equivalently-sized light xbow.  Since the war spikard deals bludgeoning damage, it's a wonderful target for Greater Mighty Wallop -- doubling it's effectiveness, actually.

Also the quick loading property or any of the specific arrow/bolt(s) can be used to deliver specifically painful shots. Though personally more of a fan of the spear spikard. Why? Changeling. Now its a greatspear spikard.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 01, 2013, 02:43:22 PM
My new favorite exotic weapon: the war spikard (MoE 138) is a warhammer with a spring-loaded mechanism built in.  You load an xbow bolt into it as a move action (which does indeed speed up if you have the Rapid Reload feat), and then the next time you attack with it, the xbow bolt discharges into the enemy.

Why is this awesome? Well, I'll tell you.
  • You can do fun shenanigans by enchanting your xbow bolts.  Spell storing? Check.  Splitting? Check. Exit wound? Check.
  • The amount of damage that the bolt deals is equal to the base damage of the war spikard, not on some equivalently-sized light xbow.  Since the war spikard deals bludgeoning damage, it's a wonderful target for Greater Mighty Wallop -- doubling it's effectiveness, actually.

Also the quick loading property or any of the specific arrow/bolt(s) can be used to deliver specifically painful shots. Though personally more of a fan of the spear spikard. Why? Changeling. Now its a greatspear spikard.
  Greatspear << greater mighty wallop + warhammer
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 01, 2013, 05:02:15 PM
The Drug, Rhul ("Battlewine")

From Lords of Darkness, Battlewine is a low addiction liquid drug that gives a +4 Alchemical bonus to Strength and Constitution for one minute before fatiguing you. Taking it a second time in one hour deals 1d4+1 Temp Int/Wis Damage.

In theory you could probably toss this into an Alchemical Capsule and drink it at each encounter as a Swift action. And given that it only costs 50gp per does, it is extremely affordable.

Because, who needs a Barbarian? Barbarians like Rage-like stuff too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 01, 2013, 05:07:54 PM
The Drug, Rhul ("Battlewine")

From Lords of Darkness, Battlewine is a low addiction liquid drug that gives a +4 Alchemical bonus to Strength and Constitution for one minute before fatiguing you. Taking it a second time in one hour deals 1d4+1 Temp Int/Wis Damage.

In theory you could probably toss this into an Alchemical Capsule and drink it at each encounter as a Swift action. And given that it only costs 50gp per does, it is extremely affordable.

Because, who needs a Barbarian? Barbarians like Rage-like stuff too.

Note, however, that it would take one hour of rest to un-fatigue you (unless the language is like that of the Barbarian's rage, which I doubt).  Jhuild (UE) does something similar, but the effect lasts for an hour, and is only ....+2 Str?

Lords of Darkness also has a version of Jhuild that is different from the Rashemi drink, and does something similar, but different.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on February 01, 2013, 05:40:13 PM
I wonder if you can put Battlewine into an Alchemical Tooth.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 01, 2013, 06:56:33 PM
Note, however, that it would take one UMD check with a Wand of Lesser Restoration (1st level spell per Paladin) to un-fatigue you

one hour of rest  (unless the language is like that of the Barbarian's rage, which I doubt).  Jhuild (UE) does something similar, but the effect lasts for an hour, and is only ....+2 Str?

Lords of Darkness also has a version of Jhuild that is different from the Rashemi drink, and does something similar, but different.
fify.

Also I am pretty sure UE's Jhuild (pg 137) is an updated form of the Drug as well. One is noted as a Drug with no Addiction/Overdose, the other is noted to be an alcohol which is closer to poison. Both immediately deal 1 Wisdom Damage upon drinking it as well.

UE's updated version then gives a +2 untyped bonus to Str one minute after drinking it. 2 hours later you lose this and suffer an untyped -2 penalty to Attacks/Saves/Skills for 12 hours and need to make a Fort Save (DC20) or pass out for 3d4 hours. On the one hand it sucks, and the other it's not a magical item so drink up and abuse the Str gain to an ungodly hell.

LoD's is much more clear cut and follows the model set forth by the BoVD. It grants the named and unstacking +2 Alchemical bonus to Str for 1d3 hours and you auto fail Saves against Intimidate.

I wonder if you can put Battlewine into an Alchemical Tooth.
I think it falls to a DM's call more than proof in rules.

But Alchemical Tooths hold Alchemical Capsules and Poisons. Surely it can hold a drug in liquid form as well.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 01, 2013, 07:02:32 PM
Actually all it takes is an Invigorating Cure Minor.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on February 02, 2013, 12:52:46 AM
Or Goodale (Dragon Magazine 334) which removes normal (non-magical) fatigue. another 50gp.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on February 02, 2013, 08:54:19 AM
Or Goodale (Dragon Magazine 334) which removes normal (non-magical) fatigue. another 50gp.
Why are they incapable of coming up with good names?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 02, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
Or Goodale (Dragon Magazine 334) which removes normal (non-magical) fatigue. another 50gp.
Why are they incapable of coming up with good names?

What would've you named it? I think Goodale as as good as anything else, really...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 02, 2013, 01:45:20 PM
I never noticed this before. Binding an item to a chakra gives you a bonus of some sort, and it always stacks with the bonus from the Open Chakra feats, even if it's of the same type! (MoI, p. 108)

Now, all the bonuses from the open chakra feats are piddling little +1 insight bonuses to a save or skill check, but Arms (lesser) is +2 insight to grapple checks. You can also get a +2 insight bonus to grapple checks from binding Gloves of Ogre Power to your hands. So, if you're going to be a Totemist grapple monster, this is a way to eke out a little extra bonus.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 02, 2013, 04:09:46 PM
I never noticed this before. Binding an item to a chakra gives you a bonus of some sort, and it always stacks with the bonus from the Open Chakra feats, even if it's of the same type! (MoI, p. 108)

Now, all the bonuses from the open chakra feats are piddling little +1 insight bonuses to a save or skill check, but Arms (lesser) is +2 insight to grapple checks. You can also get a +2 insight bonus to grapple checks from binding Gloves of Ogre Power to your hands. So, if you're going to be a Totemist grapple monster, this is a way to eke out a little extra bonus.

Assuming you had an extra soul bind, and you didn't have a soulmeld arleady bound to Arms (such as Kraken Arms, maybe?).  Seems like it would only be useful for someone with no ability to shape soulmelds, but had Open Lesser Chakra cast on him. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on February 02, 2013, 04:21:31 PM
Combine it with Split Chakra for both soulmeld and item binding bonuses..
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 02, 2013, 04:23:50 PM
The feat gives +2 and the arms bind availability (for Krakern Mantle), and the +2 from gloves is on hands, so there's no conflict there.

Mostly, though, I just find it interesting that there are insight bonuses that can stack with each other, even though they're mostly crap.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 02, 2013, 05:47:37 PM
Scratch that, I picked a bad example.  Girallon Arms gives +2 to grapple per essentia, and doesn't need to be bound for that.  You could shape Girallon to Arms, bind some magic bracers to Arms for the +2 grapple, then bind your Gauntlets of Ogre Strength to hands for another +2.  You'd be using 2 of your daily binds to get a +4 to grapple, but maybe it's worth it.  If you can't find a Hands soulmeld that gives bonuses to grapple, and if you don't have anything better to do with 2 chakra binds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 02, 2013, 05:59:19 PM
Just 1 bind, not 2. You don't need to bind anything to the arms chakra to get the +2 benefit from the feat. You do, however, have to spend a feat for that extra +2. In practice, I don't think it will ever work out efficiently, as even once you can get the feat (ECL 12) FoM is coming up and there are probably better options than +2 for a feat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 03, 2013, 12:28:39 AM
What feat? 

Oh never mind.  I read your original post wrong; I thought you meant binding a magic item to the Arms chakra gave you a +2 to grapple checks, and then binding the Gauntlets to your hands on top of that for another +2.  I forgot Open Lesser Chakra (Arms)(the feat, not the spell) gave you a bonus to grapple checks.  Which is apparently what you were pointing out in the first place...

So a non-meldshaper who wanted to get better at grappling could get himself a Wand of Open Lesser Chakra (Hands) and bind his Gauntlets there, take the Open Lesser Chakra (Arms) feat, and maybe take Shape Soulmeld (Girallon Arms).  He'd have no essentia to put in it, so it'd only give the initial +2 and Rend (from the bind), but whatever.  Total = +6 grapple, cost 2 feats and a 4th level wand (or 3 feats)

If you were a Totemist, and you used the reading of Open Chakra that lets you break the daily limit of Binds (because that's the only way this feat would be useful for you), you could bind your Gauntlets to Hands, bind Girallon to Totem, and Open Lesser Chakra for +2 to grapple.  Total = +4 + 2x(1+essentia), cost 1 feat and however much essentia you felt like investing.

So basically, it comes down to 1-3 feats (depending on if you're already a meldshaper or not) that each give +2 to grapple.  Expanded Soulmeld Capacity would work too if you had the essentia available. 



And yes, having named bonuses of the same type explicitly stack is definitely an interesting quirk, which I now realize is what you were trying to point out from the beginning. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 03, 2013, 02:18:53 AM
This one is less something strong, and something that sounds like a whole lot of fun:

The Scorpion Wraith is a kinda eh class at the best of times; however, it has one feature that makes it amazing amounts of fun.

Namely, the fourth level of the PrC has an ability called Sculpt Shadow.

It lets you, instead of using Darkness on a touched object, instead form 8 5ft squares of darkness with each use, which must start with one adjacent to you, and which must be adjacent to at least one other square of darkness.

This synergizes amazingly with a level dip in Warlock (Darkness at-will) and the feats Darkstalker, Instinctive Darkness (you can use your Darkness SLA as an Immediate action), and Blend into Shadows (Hide in Plain Sight, except you're limited to doing it within 10ft of specifically magical darkness/shadows.)

In other words, you can be running/flying around in "tunnels" of shadowy illumination. That last at least 10 minutes. Remember that hiding is a free action.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 03, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
This one is less something strong, and something that sounds like a whole lot of fun:

The Scorpion Wraith is a kinda eh class at the best of times; however, it has one feature that makes it amazing amounts of fun.

Namely, the fourth level of the PrC has an ability called Sculpt Shadow.

It lets you, instead of using Darkness on a touched object, instead form 8 5ft squares of darkness with each use, which must start with one adjacent to you, and which must be adjacent to at least one other square of darkness.

This synergizes amazingly with a level dip in Warlock (Darkness at-will) and the feats Darkstalker, Instinctive Darkness (you can use your Darkness SLA as an Immediate action), and Blend into Shadows (Hide in Plain Sight, except you're limited to doing it within 10ft of specifically magical darkness/shadows.)

In other words, you can be running/flying around in "tunnels" of shadowy illumination. That last at least 10 minutes. Remember that hiding is a free action.

Dipping warlock makes the Darkness ability from Scorpion Wraith basically useless though. Sure it's more powerfull to just dip warlock but...eh it just seems so inelegant.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ZhonLord on February 03, 2013, 10:13:51 AM
As if Ruby Knight "Win"-dicator wasn't powerful enough, picture it (or any character with Combat Reflexes) with this little number out of a book called Ultimate Feats (page 39):


Quote
Deflect Attack (General)
Prereq: Str 13+, Int 13+, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise

Benefit: When you are fighting defensively, your opponent provokes an attack of opportunity just before attacking you.  Since you are fighting defensively, your attack of opportunity has a -4 penalty to attack.

If the opponent attacks you with a weapon, your attack of opportunity can only be used as a Sunder attack against the weapon used to attack you.  If the opponent attacks you with an unarmed attack or natural weapon, you attack the unarmed attack or natural weapon, effectively making an attack of opportunity against your opponent.

If your attack actually deals damage to the opponent's weapon (or opponent, in the case of an unarmed strike or natural weapon), subtract the damage dealt to the weapon or opponent from the damage you would sustain from their attack.  In this way, it is possible to negate the damage from an opponent's attack.

Special: If you are attacking unarmed and you wish to use Deflect Attack, its prerequisites increase to Str 13+, Dex 15+, Int 13+, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eagle Claw Attack, base attack bonus 2+.  This simply adds Eagle Claw Attack, necessary for unarmed Sunder attacks, and its prerequisites to this feat.

Full attack = lose weapon.  Ouch.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Quillwraith on February 03, 2013, 10:46:11 AM
As if Ruby Knight "Win"-dicator wasn't powerful enough, picture it (or any character with Combat Reflexes) with this little number out of a book called Ultimate Feats (page 39):


Quote
Deflect Attack (General)
Prereq: Str 13+, Int 13+, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise

Benefit: When you are fighting defensively, your opponent provokes an attack of opportunity just before attacking you.  Since you are fighting defensively, your attack of opportunity has a -4 penalty to attack.

If the opponent attacks you with a weapon, your attack of opportunity can only be used as a Sunder attack against the weapon used to attack you.  If the opponent attacks you with an unarmed attack or natural weapon, you attack the unarmed attack or natural weapon, effectively making an attack of opportunity against your opponent.

If your attack actually deals damage to the opponent's weapon (or opponent, in the case of an unarmed strike or natural weapon), subtract the damage dealt to the weapon or opponent from the damage you would sustain from their attack.  In this way, it is possible to negate the damage from an opponent's attack.

Special: If you are attacking unarmed and you wish to use Deflect Attack, its prerequisites increase to Str 13+, Dex 15+, Int 13+, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eagle Claw Attack, base attack bonus 2+.  This simply adds Eagle Claw Attack, necessary for unarmed Sunder attacks, and its prerequisites to this feat.

Full attack = lose weapon.  Ouch.
Aha! Been looking for a way to do this (http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-6-40/).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ZhonLord on February 03, 2013, 11:29:45 AM
As if Ruby Knight "Win"-dicator wasn't powerful enough, picture it (or any character with Combat Reflexes) with this little number out of a book called Ultimate Feats (page 39):


Quote
Deflect Attack (General)
Prereq: Str 13+, Int 13+, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise

Benefit: When you are fighting defensively, your opponent provokes an attack of opportunity just before attacking you.  Since you are fighting defensively, your attack of opportunity has a -4 penalty to attack.

If the opponent attacks you with a weapon, your attack of opportunity can only be used as a Sunder attack against the weapon used to attack you.  If the opponent attacks you with an unarmed attack or natural weapon, you attack the unarmed attack or natural weapon, effectively making an attack of opportunity against your opponent.

If your attack actually deals damage to the opponent's weapon (or opponent, in the case of an unarmed strike or natural weapon), subtract the damage dealt to the weapon or opponent from the damage you would sustain from their attack.  In this way, it is possible to negate the damage from an opponent's attack.

Special: If you are attacking unarmed and you wish to use Deflect Attack, its prerequisites increase to Str 13+, Dex 15+, Int 13+, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Expertise, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eagle Claw Attack, base attack bonus 2+.  This simply adds Eagle Claw Attack, necessary for unarmed Sunder attacks, and its prerequisites to this feat.

Full attack = lose weapon.  Ouch.
Aha! Been looking for a way to do this (http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-6-40/).
Just make sure you clear it with your DM.  Ultimate Feats contains a variety of both very powerful and very pathetic feats, a lot of DM's might not allow it simply because balancing against that book is rather difficult.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 04, 2013, 04:17:50 PM
The Arachne Prc from Faiths and Pantheons is actually a pretty good prestige class. Like all the Faiths and Pantheons Prc's you have to blow a ton of feats and skill points to get in. Unlike most of the Prc's in that book however, the ability's you get seem to actually be worth it. You get:

A Fine spider familiar who you can see and hear out of.

Immunity to the poison of spiders and spiderlike creatures.

A paladins special mount (restricted to being a giant spider).

The ability to dominate a male drow 1/day.

The ability to create Zin-Carla for 50 xp per HD (the awesome thing about this is that Zin-Carla are undead that retain all their class features. You'll lose control if it casts a spell but it's still a pretty good ability).

You become an Outsider with the [evil] and [chaotic] subtypes.

The ability to shapechange into a yochlol, a large monstrous spider, and a cloud of noxious gas 1/day for 1 minute/caster level. 

It's probably not talked about because it's setting specific and 3.0
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 04, 2013, 04:37:53 PM
Yeah one of the few good things in the book, though I like the info in the book
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 04, 2013, 05:12:43 PM
Yeah one of the few good things in the book, though I like the info in the book

Yeah, me too.

Another Prc from that book that I like is the Horned Harbringer. It sucks when entering from a casting class but actually becomes good if you enter with crusader.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 04, 2013, 05:29:31 PM
It'd be a solid class if it was like 8/10 casting or something.

Yeah crusader could work
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 04, 2013, 05:37:49 PM
Heartwarder is still pretty decent, too.  Yes, the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip) requirement sucks (though for a Bard would be a non-issue), but getting a +5 inherent bonus to Charisma is still a pretty BFD.  Still probably worth a feat for a Sorcerer.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 04, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
Dreadmaster is based on the Leadership feat so of course it's powerfull.

Techsmith allows you to make a steampunk robot friend. I'm unsure about its power.

Windwalker is really powerfull. Full casting and full BAB with powerfull class features. It's sort of boring though IMO.

There are also a bunch of Prc's that are really cool but also really weak.

I've been looking through some of my books lately and it occurs to me that there are a lot of really cool and powerfull Prc's out there that I rarely see used. Shouldn't we be using obscure stuff more now that there's no more material coming out for 3.5? 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 04, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
I was just gandering through the old Speed handbook.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13532.0


Divine Minion +1 la, counts your wildshape at +11 druid levels.
That's 4/day.  Take Cheetah's Speed feat from CD !!
Bingo.  Ridiculous early.
Could be say that alt Barb with Run and Endurance, too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 04, 2013, 07:10:07 PM

I've been looking through some of my books lately and it occurs to me that there are a lot of really cool and powerfull Prc's out there that I rarely see used. Shouldn't we be using obscure stuff more now that there's no more material coming out for 3.5?
That's exactly my argument against "3.5 only" games.  There is no new material coming out, and really, the "broken" things from 3.0 were completely eclipsed by the 3.5 material, that there really isn't a reason to exclude the use of 3.0 material.

I use a mix of 3.0 and 3.5 in my game anyway (DR/magic is tiered like 3.0 DR, improved crit and keen stack, etc.), and actually use the 3.0 versions of PrC's in some instances because they are (primarily) a better fit thematically, and (secondarily) less powerful than the 3.5 versions of the classes.  I'm pretty wide-open to any 3rd edition stuff.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 04, 2013, 07:18:12 PM

I've been looking through some of my books lately and it occurs to me that there are a lot of really cool and powerfull Prc's out there that I rarely see used. Shouldn't we be using obscure stuff more now that there's no more material coming out for 3.5?
That's exactly my argument against "3.5 only" games.  There is no new material coming out, and really, the "broken" things from 3.0 were completely eclipsed by the 3.5 material, that there really isn't a reason to exclude the use of 3.0 material.

I use a mix of 3.0 and 3.5 in my game anyway (DR/magic is tiered like 3.0 DR, improved crit and keen stack, etc.), and actually use the 3.0 versions of PrC's in some instances because they are (primarily) a better fit thematically, and (secondarily) less powerful than the 3.5 versions of the classes.  I'm pretty wide-open to any 3rd edition stuff.

Stuff from Dragon too?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 04, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
With the exception of very few things*, I don't use or allow Dragon material at all.  There's plenty of play-things throughout 3.0 and 3.5.

*I make use of the Troll-Blooded template to make "new" types of trolls, and I use the Fire Troll from Dragon Compendium.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 04, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
There's some really creepy vile spells in #300, check em out.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 06, 2013, 06:23:18 PM
Not so big a deal anymore to prefer
3.0e and Dragon Mag, instead of PF.
 :)


Well like the Psi stuff from #349,
only Cerebremetamagic is T.O.
(excepting a Divine Mind // Paladin)
... the rest are do able.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 06, 2013, 08:06:37 PM
So it turns out the Alienist is even more useless than was previously thought:

Quote
Mastery of Madness
 ( Player's Guide to Eberron, p. 126)

[General]
You have learned to reach magically to the ever-distant plane of Xoriat and draw some element of its madness into the world--but these techniques come with some risk.

Prerequisite
Iron Will (PH) , Knowledge (the planes) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 9 ranks,

Benefit
Whenever you summon a celestial or fiendish creature with a spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, you can choose instead to summon a pseudonatural version of that creature (see the pseudonatural template in Complete Arcane, reproduced in abbreviated form below). When you use this ability, you must succeed on a caster level check (DC 15 + spell level) to avoid opening a small temporary rift to Xoriat, which affects the spell as if it were cast on a plane with the wild magic trait (roll d% on the table on page 150 in the Dungeon Master's Guide to determine the effect). Pseudonatural Creature: Change type to outsider. SA true strike 1/day, S Q alternate form, damage reduction, resistance to acid and electricity, spell resistance; Int minimum 3. Alternate Form (Su): Take form of grotesque tentacled mass as standard action; statistics remain as normal but attacks take --1 morale penalty. Damage Reduction (Su): DR 5/magic (HD 4-11) or DR 10/magic(HD 12+). Resistance to Acid and Electricity (Ex): Resistance 5 (HD 1--7), 10 (HD 8-11), or 15 (HD 12+). Spell Resistance (Ex): SR 10 + HD (maximum 25).

It's not worth a feat of course but if you like the flavor its much better than taking levels in Alienist. I'm not sure if this feat allows you to add the pseudonatural template to creatures which aren't able to take the celestial/fiendish temples given the first line. If you can then the feat could actually be worth taking.

Also, this feat:

Quote
Divine Denial
 ( Exemplars of Evil, p. 24)

[General]
You harden your will against the power of the deities.

Prerequisite
Iron Will (PH) , Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks,

Benefit
Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws to resist the spell. If the spell does not allow a saving throw, you can make a Will save against the spell's DC as if it allowed a save. If you succeed, you negate the effect of the spell.

Allows you to do something I don't think you can do anywhere else in DnD. Since it only applies to divine spells it's probably not worth a feat but I think it's still worth bringing up.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 06, 2013, 10:32:01 PM
Quote
Divine Denial
 ( Exemplars of Evil, p. 24)

[General]
You harden your will against the power of the deities.

Prerequisite
Iron Will (PH) , Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks,

Benefit
Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws to resist the spell. If the spell does not allow a saving throw, you can make a Will save against the spell's DC as if it allowed a save. If you succeed, you negate the effect of the spell.

Allows you to do something I don't think you can do anywhere else in DnD. Since it only applies to divine spells it's probably not worth a feat but I think it's still worth bringing up.
Yeah, it's a pretty good feat. I've considered taking it on multiple characters, but always wound up going with something else instead.  :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on February 06, 2013, 11:19:41 PM
 Thaalud Stone Armor: heavy armor; cost 2,800 gp;
armor bonus +12; max Dex bonus +0; armor check penalty
–8; arcane spell failure 40%; speed 30 ft./20 ft., 20 ft./15
ft.; weight 180 lb.

From Anauroch The Empire of Shade, pg 108.

Combine with the Master's Forge armor templates (Lightweight, Reinforced, Segmented, Masterwork from PH) from Dragon 358 for : Armor bonus +13, Max Dex +1, ACP -7, Weight 172lbs, cost 4400 gp.

Makes the Deflective Armor feat rather attractive, I think. With Heavy Armor Specialization (the pre-req for Deflective armor) that's a +14 to your touch AC, before you count enhancement bonus to the armor.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on February 07, 2013, 01:55:19 AM
The primal rager prestige class (Dragon 395, p70) gives a nifty ability at 1st level called strength of the beast.  It allows you to subtract a number from the duration of your rage and add the same number to the str and con bonuses granted.  The number is capped at the sum of your levels in barbarian and primal rager.  As an odd quirk, you don't get to count the con bonus from this ability for determining the duration of your rage. 

So, a barbarian 8 / primal rager 1 / barbarian +11 could gain +26 to str and con while raging.  Dealing with the -20 rounds of duration would seem to require multiple instances the extend rage feat.  On the plus side, there's finally a use for extend rage.  On the down side, this eats up feats (improved unarmed strike and iron will as prerequisites, and however many instances of extend rage) and forces you to stick with two specific classes, neither of which has much to offer after 1st level. 

The mighty contender of Kord prestige class (Dragon 283, p46) has two cool abilities.  Feat of strength, given at 1st level, lets you use the granted power of the strength domain a number of times per day equal to your “unmodified” str modifier and lets levels in the prestige class stack with cleric levels for the granted power of the strength domain.  Surge of strength, given at 3rd level, makes the granted power of the strength domain last for 1+1d4 rounds.  The domain focus ACF (Dragon 347, p91) for cleric doubles the benefit of a domain but costs you the other one and your spontaneous casting ability. 

So, a cleric (domain focus: strength) 8 / mighty contender of Kord 3 / cleric +9 could gain a +40 enhancement bonus to strength for 1+1d4 rounds as a free action some number of times per day.  On the down side, mighty contender of Kord only advances casting at even-numbered levels, so you're behind by two on casting.  Another downside is that you need to stick with cleric or those few prestige classes that stack for domain granted powers.  I can only think of ordained champion (which isn't compatible with Kord) and paragnostic apostle. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 07, 2013, 02:20:08 AM
Those are scary in their own odd way
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: muktidata on February 07, 2013, 05:00:05 AM
A little underwhelming on it's own (the Primal Rager, that is), but I could see it being fun in a gestalt build. Put that in your AMF and smoke it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 07, 2013, 12:31:14 PM
Yeah :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 08, 2013, 01:12:48 AM
The primal rager prestige class (Dragon 395, p70) gives a nifty ability at 1st level called strength of the beast.  It allows you to subtract a number from the duration of your rage and add the same number to the str and con bonuses granted.  The number is capped at the sum of your levels in barbarian and primal rager.  As an odd quirk, you don't get to count the con bonus from this ability for determining the duration of your rage. 

So, a barbarian 8 / primal rager 1 / barbarian +11 could gain +26 to str and con while raging.  Dealing with the -20 rounds of duration would seem to require multiple instances the extend rage feat.  On the plus side, there's finally a use for extend rage.  On the down side, this eats up feats (improved unarmed strike and iron will as prerequisites, and however many instances of extend rage) and forces you to stick with two specific classes, neither of which has much to offer after 1st level. 

The mighty contender of Kord prestige class (Dragon 283, p46) has two cool abilities.  Feat of strength, given at 1st level, lets you use the granted power of the strength domain a number of times per day equal to your “unmodified” str modifier and lets levels in the prestige class stack with cleric levels for the granted power of the strength domain.  Surge of strength, given at 3rd level, makes the granted power of the strength domain last for 1+1d4 rounds.  The domain focus ACF (Dragon 347, p91) for cleric doubles the benefit of a domain but costs you the other one and your spontaneous casting ability. 

So, a cleric (domain focus: strength) 8 / mighty contender of Kord 3 / cleric +9 could gain a +40 enhancement bonus to strength for 1+1d4 rounds as a free action some number of times per day.  On the down side, mighty contender of Kord only advances casting at even-numbered levels, so you're behind by two on casting.  Another downside is that you need to stick with cleric or those few prestige classes that stack for domain granted powers.  I can only think of ordained champion (which isn't compatible with Kord) and paragnostic apostle.

Primal Rager seems really fun. I see it more as an option than as a groundbreaking thing, it's a nifty ability. Really shines when you have to power through something in a dungeon. Adamantine Door? NP, i rage for 1 round, and make a strength check to pry the door open. BBEG? Eat +30 strength bonus on damage. So on and so forth... The fact that it raises your Con is really neat, too. You can use it to power through fort saves, and combined with some form of CON -> AC + Shock Trooper makes you have strenght X2 effectively. I'm sure someone can see how powerful this would be in addition to other charge multipliers. Can't say it's T.O material, but it's great.

Don't see much use for the Cleric prestige class. Domain Focus, on the other hand, is really good. Good for doubling caster level bonuses. +1 Caster Level for a feat is pretty good. Using Domain Focus with domains that grant you turn undead would double the effectiveness of the turn undead, or double the uses? If it doubles the uses, than it's a godsend for DMM. If not, there are probably a couple of non-standard domain powers that would be really great with double effect.

Oh, Creation Domain gives +2 to Conjuration(Creation) Caster level, so with the feat it would be at +4. Could be worthwhile for a dedicated crafter.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 08, 2013, 01:20:30 AM
When can you qualify for Primal Rager?

Because it looks like it would be fun for E6...

All your 6th level feats are Extend Rage; this can lead to over 100 rounds of Rage.

That is a lot of rage.

But it looks like you need to be an 8th level Barbarian from what you posted. Darn.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 08, 2013, 02:06:56 AM
Yeah bab +8 req

 http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/prestige2.pl?class=Primal_Rager
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on February 09, 2013, 10:07:58 PM
The Proteus feat from Exemplars of Evil requires Caster level 10th and Spell Focus (illusion) but allows you to sacrifice a prepared spell to cast any lower-level illusion (glamer) spell. In addition, you can cast a prepared illusion (glamer) spell as an immediate action by sacrificing another spell of the same level.

This strikes me as a potentially usefull feat in an unspecific way. Just throwing it out here in case it triggers any ideas.

Also, the feat Evil Blessing allows you to  (as a standard action) gain a Profane bonus to your Saves equal to your Cha score for 5 rounds. If you damage an enemy with a Good subtype or aura, the bonus is doubled.  :drool
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on February 10, 2013, 01:42:52 AM
But it looks like you need to be an 8th level Barbarian from what you posted. Darn.
Don't forget about that capstone feat that lets you qualify for stuff that requires up to a +8 BAB ...  :cool
(it's in the core e6 material)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 10, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
But it's a PrC!

That is why I'm sad.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 10, 2013, 04:59:33 AM
But it looks like you need to be an 8th level Barbarian from what you posted. Darn.
Don't forget about that capstone feat that lets you qualify for stuff that requires up to a +8 BAB ...  :cool
(it's in the core e6 material)

But you can only use the capstone feat to qualify for more feats, since after level 6 you can't add more classes. Unless i understood it wrong, which i may have, because i've never actually played E6.

SWORDSAGED
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on February 10, 2013, 05:12:52 AM
 :facepalm
I often forget that most don't play e6 the way my group does -- we use Generic Classes from UA, and have adapted pretty-much any/every level-appropriate class feature in to a feat (meaning that PrC abilities are still available).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 10, 2013, 05:28:32 AM
:facepalm
I often forget that most don't play e6 the way my group does -- we use Generic Classes from UA, and have adapted pretty-much any/every level-appropriate class feature in to a feat (meaning that PrC abilities are still available).

Ugh... Hope your group has sensible optimizers... But how do you work out the prereqs for class features?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on February 10, 2013, 06:13:31 AM
Ugh... Hope your group has sensible optimizers...
My current group prefers the likes of "Tim" (http://neeser.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/tim-the-enchanter.jpg?w=487), sneaky pick-pockets, and "Thog smash" ... sometimes the try some silly parlor tricks, but mainly need their items to do the heavy lifting.

Quote
But how do you work out the prereqs for class features?
You mean for PrCs?  That's simple -- whatever the prereqs for the PrC are, that's the minimum prereqs for getting any of the class features; and not necessarily all of the features are available -- that's more of a case-by-case basis(for example, you can have any/all of the options from Exotic Wpn Master; but Greater Frenzy is probably not even a consideration).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 10, 2013, 04:00:11 PM
I now want to play E6+PrCs as a Barbarian 1/Feral Rager 1/Whatever else 4. It sounds rather fun.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 11, 2013, 12:46:21 AM
From athas.org the Fearsome, Freedom, and Intimidating Presence feats are amazing!

Fearsome gives a +2 untyped bonus to Intimidate and replaces Cya with Str on Intimate checks. Add Dread Tyranny to get double your Str on Intimidate checks!

Intimidating Presence allows you to demoralize a number of foes equal to your Cha modifier.

Freedom allows to to take an extra move or standard action per round, a number of times per day based on level (between 1 and 4/day)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on February 11, 2013, 01:55:14 AM
Freedom allows to to take an extra move or standard action per round, a number of times per day based on level (between 1 and 4/day)
The Heroic Surge feat from <some Dragonlance book> does the same thing, as well.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kasz on February 11, 2013, 11:51:49 AM
Something we're doing in my game atm, I'm playing an evil character with binder levels and I usually have Naberius bound (evil social campaign) using Insane Defiance [Take 1 Wisdom damage to deflect mind-affecting spell or ability to new target with a -4 to the new target's save] to throw out mind effecting spells with essentially +4 to their DC by;

Have an ally cast a spell on me, take 1 wis damage and redirect to target enemy. Enemy now has to make the save at a -4. On my turn allow Naberius to heal the 1 wis damage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 11, 2013, 11:53:38 AM
Something we're doing in my game atm, I'm playing an evil character with binder levels and I usually have Naberius bound (evil social campaign) using Insane Defiance [Take 1 Wisdom damage to deflect mind-affecting spell or ability to new target with a -4 to the new target's save] to throw out mind effecting spells with essentially +4 to their DC by;

Have an ally cast a spell on me, take 1 wis damage and redirect to target enemy. Enemy now has to make the save at a -4. On my turn allow Naberius to heal the 1 wis damage.
Yeah, I was in a game where we had a couple of PCs that did that exact same thing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 11, 2013, 11:57:05 AM
Freedom allows to to take an extra move or standard action per round, a number of times per day based on level (between 1 and 4/day)
The Heroic Surge feat from <some Dragonlance book> does the same thing, as well.
That feat is also in the Wheel of Time d20 RPG, FYI.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 11, 2013, 12:02:16 PM
One thing about Insane Defiance...

Can you bounce it? So you get 20 commoners with the feat to stand nearby, cast charm person on them, and the penalty on the guy's save against it stack (so the DC is effective +80)?

Or am I being entirely, utterly silly?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agita on February 11, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
One thing about Insane Defiance...

Can you bounce it? So you get 20 commoners with the feat to stand nearby, cast charm person on them, and the penalty on the guy's save against it stack (so the DC is effective +80)?

Or am I being entirely, utterly silly?
You can't, specifically because it's at a penalty. The first person you bounce it to takes a -4 penalty and bounces it on, imposing a -4 save penalty to the next person... who doesn't care one whit what the first one's save bonus looked like.
If it was a bonus to the DC instead, it might stack barring a clause to the contrary (depending on your interpretation of "same source"), which is presumably why it isn't.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 11, 2013, 12:37:38 PM
Alright, just checking.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 11, 2013, 06:29:21 PM
You have to wait till epic levels (or red wizard) if you want those 100 Followers to boost your spells. :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 12, 2013, 07:31:38 PM
The Proteus feat from Exemplars of Evil requires Caster level 10th and Spell Focus (illusion) but allows you to sacrifice a prepared spell to cast any lower-level illusion (glamer) spell. In addition, you can cast a prepared illusion (glamer) spell as an immediate action by sacrificing another spell of the same level.

This strikes me as a potentially usefull feat in an unspecific way. Just throwing it out here in case it triggers any ideas.
**

Also, the feat Evil Blessing allows you to  (as a standard action) gain a Profane bonus to your Saves equal to your Cha score for 5 rounds. If you damage an enemy with a Good subtype or aura, the bonus is doubled.  :drool

Snag a Squirrel (Rat) from The Beastlands, hogtie.
Poke with thimble.  Or better ... Schism and a Cantrip.


Proteus ... 1st part is niice but ~iffy.  Not psi or cleric heals, but close. 
2nd part is rather sweet.  Super Quicken (Immediates!) for +1 spell
level equivalent on 1s.  +2 spell level equivalent on 2s.  +3 on 3s.
And you don't need to have the usual higher level slot.  This is up
near Linked Metapsi abuse.  Ring of Wizardry.  Recharge Magic variant = omg.
Dual Caster like Mind Mage or Erudite S2P/Discipline really likes this.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on February 16, 2013, 07:05:33 PM
From athas.org the Fearsome, Freedom, and Intimidating Presence feats are amazing!

Fearsome gives a +2 untyped bonus to Intimidate and replaces Cya with Str on Intimate checks. Add Dread Tyranny to get double your Str on Intimidate checks!

Intimidating Presence allows you to demoralize a number of foes equal to your Cha modifier.

Freedom allows to to take an extra move or standard action per round, a number of times per day based on level (between 1 and 4/day)

glad you re-found those. i've mentioned the first two from a while back... intimidation and fear threads mostly, iirc. the last is a regional city-specific feat, but not too hard to relocate, i'm thinking.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 16, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Really? Missed that  :o
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on February 16, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
well, i tend to be an athas-as-sourcebook freak, what with my psionic preferences and all. thanks again for finding those.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on February 18, 2013, 03:10:48 AM
Where are those found on the athas.org site?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on February 18, 2013, 04:49:47 AM
Where are those found on the athas.org site?

well, the downloadable material (http://athas.org/products/ds3) is. 

and more stuff here (http://athas.org/products?publisher=Athas.org)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on February 18, 2013, 08:28:51 PM
Oh... right. I've been meaning to download those. I thought for a minute there was a forum or something on the site that I couldn't find.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 19, 2013, 01:49:52 AM
Creatures without Dex scores use Int for initiative checks. Never knew that before.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 19, 2013, 02:47:17 AM
Where's that at?

Edit: found it in the 'nonabilities'

What happens if they're both nonabilities? :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 19, 2013, 03:09:33 AM
Where's that at?

Edit: found it in the 'nonabilities'

What happens if they're both nonabilities? :P

Those are called "objects"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 19, 2013, 03:19:51 AM
Not really... just non-intelligent and immobile.

There's a Dragon mag template that give Dex and Con as nonabilities. Just lose Int and what happens?

There was a time where I meant to do a nonability build where all but Cha was a '--'. But that fell by the wayside.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on February 19, 2013, 03:27:24 AM
You have to still have Wis, so...

Yeah, lowest possible ability scores are Str -, Dex -, Con -, Cha 1, Wis 1, Int -.

You're an undead plant. Or something.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 19, 2013, 03:52:31 AM
Dream Element template gets rid of Wis... But I'm not sure how to get to it...

Here's a really rough base.
A spectral dream element living wall hairy spider


Maybe just use alternate form?
A dream element dumb creature turning into an incorporeal living wall?


Edit:
But since dream element has no LA, the lowest scores I've come up with for a PLAYABLE char, are...

Str -, Dex -, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
A symbiotic phantom living wall badger-hairy spider with deformity (madness), Wis <6, and a <12 Cha.
The host gains the living wall template after the symbiotic template.
This creature has 1 racial HD and a +1 LA.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 19, 2013, 12:16:32 PM
What happens if they're both nonabilities? :P

The ability modifier for a nonability is always +0.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on February 19, 2013, 12:30:47 PM
...incorporeal living wall...
Sounds like the most pointless creature in existence at that point.  :lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 19, 2013, 12:50:41 PM
The ability modifier for a nonability is always +0.

I know... Just strange having everything switch with everything, then the new score is gone.

...incorporeal living wall...
Sounds like the most pointless creature in existence at that point.  :lol

Like an immobile living spell spiritwall ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on February 19, 2013, 01:45:03 PM
...incorporeal living wall...
Sounds like the most pointless creature in existence at that point.  :lol
Other than being an awesome containment grid for the Ghostbusters!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 19, 2013, 06:10:10 PM
...incorporeal living wall...
Sounds like the most pointless creature in existence at that point.  :lol
Other than being an awesome containment grid for the Ghostbusters!
:clap :lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on February 20, 2013, 03:01:22 AM
Alchemist's blessing (Dungeon 116, p90) is a magic item that allows potions used with it to affect 3 targets.  It seems like something could be done with that, possibly involving master alchemist (Magic of Faerun, p34). 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 20, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
Creatures without Dex scores use Int for initiative checks. Never knew that before.
Wow... that's actually an amazing find... for a psion who uses Metamorphosis to turn into an object. :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 22, 2013, 05:10:57 PM
Found this earlier today:

Here is an interesting clause from Stone Body:
Quote
A transmute mud to rock heals you of all your lost hit points.
Granted it takes two spells of 6th and 5th levels, but it is basically an arcane self-heal, except it heals ALL your hit point damage, plus nonlethal, and is not limited to 10 hp's per caster level.

Dragons just got better  :plotting
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on February 22, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Which version of Stone Body is that from? It's been printed in a few sources.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 22, 2013, 06:31:12 PM
Which version of Stone Body is that from? It's been printed in a few sources.
SpC.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 23, 2013, 07:04:19 PM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackinthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 23, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackingthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Would also be good with the Chaotic Spell Recall abyssal heritor feat.  Once per day recall any chaotic spell you've cast as a swift action...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 23, 2013, 07:12:24 PM
And Spell Focus (Evil/Good), too...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 23, 2013, 10:44:36 PM
*Cough Tainted Scholar cough*
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on February 24, 2013, 12:07:29 AM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackingthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Would also be good with the Chaotic Spell Recall abyssal heritor feat.  Once per day recall any chaotic spell you've cast as a swift action...

Infinite spells when Epic, with Automatic Quicken Spell, but by that time, everything is broken already.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 24, 2013, 01:46:35 AM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackingthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Would also be good with the Chaotic Spell Recall abyssal heritor feat.  Once per day recall any chaotic spell you've cast as a swift action...

Infinite spells when Epic, with Automatic Quicken Spell, but by that time, everything is broken already.
Sorry, you're reading that wrong.  Let me rephrase.  As a swift action, once per day, you can recall any chaotic spell that you have cast.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 24, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
Dictum Mortuum had this to say:
Quote
Abyssal Specialist DotU: This ability enables you to specialize not in a particular school of magic, but on spells that have the chaotic, compulsion, darkness, evil or fear; since this group of spells is now considered a school of spells for you, you can also gain Focused Specialist with Abyssal Specialist, since the latter only requires you to drop just one school of magic (like a specialist diviner). Abyssal Specialist has great synergy with the 10th Planar Wizard substitution level, which gives an additional alignment descriptor (good, evil, chaotic, lawful) to your spells; you can choose [chaotic] or [evil] and essentially transform your specialist spell slots to generalist spell slots (since the descriptor is applied to all your spells). In addition you can use mechanics like Spell Focus[Evil] and Chaotic Spell Recall to great effect.

So yeah, turns out it's basically the planar wizard variant but at level 1 only costing you your familiar. Still got some good advice.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 24, 2013, 02:31:24 AM
Drow wizard specialist ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on February 24, 2013, 09:11:00 AM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackingthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Would also be good with the Chaotic Spell Recall abyssal heritor feat.  Once per day recall any chaotic spell you've cast as a swift action...

Infinite spells when Epic, with Automatic Quicken Spell, but by that time, everything is broken already.
Sorry, you're reading that wrong.  Let me rephrase.  As a swift action, once per day, you can recall any chaotic spell that you have cast.
Plus one additional time for every two Inheritor feats, so with near-infinite feat cheese...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on February 24, 2013, 10:02:31 AM
In Dragon 357 there is the Aligned Spellcaster ACF (Credit to Jackingthegreen for his list) which lets you trade your familiar for making all your spells possess an alignment descriptor. Now, I know there are other benefits that slip my mind at the moment, but the big one is the soul tick symbiote from Fiend Folio, which gives free unlimited empower to all spells with the evil descriptor. Always being empowered is using a good trade for a familiar and eternal wand of lesser restoration (plus whatever the symbiote is worth).
Would also be good with the Chaotic Spell Recall abyssal heritor feat.  Once per day recall any chaotic spell you've cast as a swift action...

Infinite spells when Epic, with Automatic Quicken Spell, but by that time, everything is broken already.
Sorry, you're reading that wrong.  Let me rephrase.  As a swift action, once per day, you can recall any chaotic spell that you have cast.
Plus one additional time for every two Inheritor feats, so with near-infinite feat cheese...
And unless you've extra swift actions, you'll only need to cover 14400 rounds :D
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 24, 2013, 12:29:28 PM
Plus one additional time for every two Inheritor feats, so with near-infinite feat cheese...
right, but there's only what? Ten abyssal heritor feats?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 24, 2013, 01:23:03 PM
Well heck, within the current subject I've got one heck of a "fun find" for you.

A Minmax Handbook that already brings this up, with official 3.5 material support. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=474.0)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 24, 2013, 07:06:15 PM
You can also use barbs of hextor if you aren't chaotic for a 350 gp +1 to caster level for all your spells.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on February 24, 2013, 07:12:09 PM
Something interesting from Pathfinder, an intelligent item found in Ultimate Equipment.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/artifactsAndOthers/intelligentItems.html
Quote
Shield of the Mage

Price 14,500 gp; Aura moderate divination; CL 11th; Weight 5 lbs.
Alignment neutral; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 16; Wisdom 10; Charisma 10; Ego 6
Language: telepathy (Common and six other languages)

This caster's shield (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/armor.html#_caster-s-shield) always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
Infinite spells, as long as you don't mind them being randomly selected from your known ones.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 24, 2013, 10:42:38 PM
Something interesting from Pathfinder, an intelligent item found in Ultimate Equipment.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/artifactsAndOthers/intelligentItems.html
Quote
Shield of the Mage

Price 14,500 gp; Aura moderate divination; CL 11th; Weight 5 lbs.
Alignment neutral; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 16; Wisdom 10; Charisma 10; Ego 6
Language: telepathy (Common and six other languages)

This caster's shield (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/armor.html#_caster-s-shield) always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
Infinite spells, as long as you don't mind them being randomly selected from your known ones.
What the hell is wrong with those people? Who thought this was balanced, or a good idea?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agita on February 24, 2013, 10:45:08 PM
Something interesting from Pathfinder, an intelligent item found in Ultimate Equipment.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/artifactsAndOthers/intelligentItems.html
Quote
Shield of the Mage

Price 14,500 gp; Aura moderate divination; CL 11th; Weight 5 lbs.
Alignment neutral; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 16; Wisdom 10; Charisma 10; Ego 6
Language: telepathy (Common and six other languages)

This caster's shield (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/armor.html#_caster-s-shield) always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
Infinite spells, as long as you don't mind them being randomly selected from your known ones.
What the hell is wrong with those people? Who thought this was balanced, or a good idea?
Smart money says Reynolds. :eh
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 24, 2013, 11:10:44 PM
Something interesting from Pathfinder, an intelligent item found in Ultimate Equipment.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/artifactsAndOthers/intelligentItems.html
Quote
Shield of the Mage

Price 14,500 gp; Aura moderate divination; CL 11th; Weight 5 lbs.
Alignment neutral; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 16; Wisdom 10; Charisma 10; Ego 6
Language: telepathy (Common and six other languages)

This caster's shield (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/armor.html#_caster-s-shield) always has one arcane scroll and knows the same arcane spells as the wielder. When the spell on the scroll is cast, another scroll of a spell the wielder knows randomly manifests to replace it. The shield has no arcane spell failure. The shield can also read magic. It will often debate with its wielder for the most devastating course of action, but does what the wielder commands.
Infinite spells, as long as you don't mind them being randomly selected from your known ones.
What the hell is wrong with those people? Who thought this was balanced, or a good idea?
Smart money says Reynolds. :eh

Hmmm... I think I ought to have an extra disintegrate ready for the mission today.  Well, I'll fire off this here fireball...  (boom)
Nope, mirror image isn't it... (4 casters now casting from their shields)
Nope, I'll just dimension door to the other side of the room (bamph)
Err... hey familiar kitty, I need to turn you into a doggie for a while... (Roll out! (http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/transformers-transform/))
...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 24, 2013, 11:43:23 PM
Hmmm... I think I ought to have an extra disintegrate ready for the mission today.  Well, I'll fire off this here fireball...  (boom)
Nope, mirror image isn't it... (4 casters now casting from their shields)
Nope, I'll just dimension door to the other side of the room (bamph)
Err... hey familiar kitty, I need to turn you into a doggie for a while... (Roll out! (http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/transformers-transform/))
...

That was my first idea too.
Never bother preparing a utility spell again!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 25, 2013, 12:21:34 AM
And its not like you can't have more than one shield. Even more with animated shields, dastanas, and graft arms  :thumb

I cast detect magic from the scroll... Oh I get fireball, Prismatic sphere, and wall of fire back, nice.

Edit: naw doesn't work exactly that way... But you CAN still have several shields to give you more options, especially if you get stuck with a long casting time spell
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on February 25, 2013, 07:45:33 AM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 25, 2013, 08:44:36 AM
Pandemonic Silver (CW):

Quote
...a thin, unearthly scream issues forth from a bladed weapon made of pandemonic silver whenever it's unsheathed in at least a light breeze. The scream is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion (fear effect). Other than the wielder, those within 30 feet who hear it must succeed on a Will save or cower for 1d4 rounds.

The DC is dependent on ambient wind strength.

For 9k gp, put it on a gnomish quickrazor, which you can draw & stow as a free action.  For bonus points, use the Summon Elemental reserve feat for an air elemental to up your wind strength.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 25, 2013, 11:45:54 AM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Learn Wish, scribe it into your spellbook.

Cast all the shield scrolls until you come up with Wish.  A scroll already has all XP factored into it; the user of the scroll spends no XP...

Wish for a candle of invocation...  :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Unbeliever on February 25, 2013, 11:48:53 AM
@Shield of the Mage

Good thing Pathfinder helped correct all that caster imbalance in 3.5 ... 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nanshork on February 25, 2013, 11:50:28 AM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Learn Wish, scribe it into your spellbook.

Cast all the shield scrolls until you come up with Wish.  A scroll already has all XP factored into it; the user of the scroll spends no XP...

Wish for a candle of invocation...  :P

Pathfinder doesn't have XP costs anyway.   :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 25, 2013, 11:54:29 AM
Pathfinder doesn't have XP costs anyway.   :P
Ok, well, it still saves you a 25,000 gp diamond.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 25, 2013, 12:09:16 PM
Pandemonic Silver (CW):

Quote
...a thin, unearthly scream issues forth from a bladed weapon made of pandemonic silver whenever it's unsheathed in at least a light breeze. The scream is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion (fear effect). Other than the wielder, those within 30 feet who hear it must succeed on a Will save or cower for 1d4 rounds.

The DC is dependent on ambient wind strength.

For 9k gp, put it on a gnomish quickrazor, which you can draw & stow as a free action.  For bonus points, use the Summon Elemental reserve feat for an air elemental to up your wind strength.

Very nice!
Would dread witch help some of the immunities?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 25, 2013, 12:24:16 PM
Doubtful.  It's not an effect that you create, it's an effect of the material.  Has its own save DC, for example.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: FireInTheSky on February 25, 2013, 08:09:20 PM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Learn Wish, scribe it into your spellbook.

You forgot the last step:  Tear out all other spells from your spellbook.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on February 25, 2013, 08:14:27 PM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Learn Wish, scribe it into your spellbook.

You forgot the last step:  Tear out all other spells from your spellbook.
Better yet sell them to pay for the shield!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 25, 2013, 10:39:54 PM
Haha nice!


This combo would suck for a sha'ir
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on February 25, 2013, 10:46:50 PM
It's also a nice way to let the sorcerer or UMD user have an extra spell for the battle. Wizard cycles through the shield until something nice comes up, hands the shield to the party member.
Learn Wish, scribe it into your spellbook.

You forgot the last step:  Tear out all other spells from your spellbook.
Better yet sell them to pay for the shield!  :D :D :D
:lmao Yeah, the first thing I thought when I first saw this was "It's the idiot crusader, with spells!"  :lol

Pandemonic Silver (CW):

Quote
...a thin, unearthly scream issues forth from a bladed weapon made of pandemonic silver whenever it's unsheathed in at least a light breeze. The scream is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion (fear effect). Other than the wielder, those within 30 feet who hear it must succeed on a Will save or cower for 1d4 rounds.

The DC is dependent on ambient wind strength.

For 9k gp, put it on a gnomish quickrazor, which you can draw & stow as a free action.  For bonus points, use the Summon Elemental reserve feat for an air elemental to up your wind strength.

So... how do I get Zeus' (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8662.msg138380#msg138380) Mindblades to be made of this?  :D (or maybe I should just get a damned dagger or something :P )
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on February 28, 2013, 08:45:30 PM
Probably common knowledge, but Warforged Composite Plating doesn't have a maximum Dexterity bonus. Neither does Ironwood Body, but the ones that actually provide a decent armor bonus do. Still, this could conceivably serve a niche, since it'll save about 40000 gp compared to +8 Bracers of Armor on a high-dex build at the cost of being a Warforged and thus setting back your Dexterity by 2, and spending a feat. Generally it's a losing trade, but there may be more advanced stuff I haven't thought of.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zaxter on February 28, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
Probably common knowledge, but Warforged Composite Plating doesn't have a maximum Dexterity bonus. Neither does Ironwood Body, but the ones that actually provide a decent armor bonus do. Still, this could conceivably serve a niche, since it'll save about 40000 gp compared to +8 Bracers of Armor on a high-dex build at the cost of being a Warforged and thus setting back your Dexterity by 2, and spending a feat. Generally it's a losing trade, but there may be more advanced stuff I haven't thought of.
I think the Gnome Twist Cloth (RoS) is usually used by characters looking for an armor bonus without hindering their dex. It's the only armor (at least that I know of) with a max dex of --.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on February 28, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
Its awesome for using without proficiency too
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PsyBomb on February 28, 2013, 10:28:06 PM
Thistledown Padded Armor is in the same boat as well, I think. +1 armor, Max Dex WAY higher than typically reachable, no armor check, and the only thing yet printed that I know of with 0% spell failure. Every arcane caster I make uses it, and same goes to anything with no armor proficiencies. A bit spendy, but worth it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on February 28, 2013, 10:37:42 PM
Light mithral shields have 0% ASF, as does a mithral shirt or heavy mithral shield enchanted with Twilight.  And they have no ACP, too, so no non-proficiency penalties.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on February 28, 2013, 11:38:37 PM
Light mithral shields have 0% ASF, as does a mithral shirt or heavy mithral shield enchanted with Twilight.  And they have no ACP, too, so no non-proficiency penalties.

Twilight mithral feycraft Chain Shirt
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 01, 2013, 01:17:06 AM
Jungle's Rapture (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030420a) is nasty. Not just because it's a bitch to dispel, and it deals 1d6 Dexterity Drain each day that it is in effect, and that it turns you into a plant (which is generally less curable than death.)

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 01, 2013, 01:40:26 AM
Jungle's Rapture (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030420a) is nasty. Not just because it's a bitch to dispel, and it deals 1d6 Dexterity Drain each day that it is in effect, and that it turns you into a plant (which is generally less curable than death.)

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!

Didn't you hear? D&D characters never die of starvation, they just fall asleep forever and ever.

But seriously, though, you've got 3 days before anything happens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst), then it's a ~50% chance of 1d6 nonlethal (unhealable) per day. The Dex drain will get you before you notice the lack of food.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 01, 2013, 01:43:04 AM
Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!
Note that once you reach the levels that this spell would be seen in game, it takes a LOOOOONG time to starve to death (and you can only die from starvation if you use Rules Compendium; you can't die from it in Core).

I have a 10th level barbarian NPC that will be getting rescued from the Faerie Realm.  When he is rescued and returned to the Material Plane, he will instantly age 2 months, and effectively will not have eaten for two months.  Just yesterday I ran the Con checks and the nonlethal damage (and eventual lethal damage) for this 118 hp barbarian, and after two months of not eating, he had taken 118 points of nonlethal, then taken about 40 points of lethal damage.  He's still got a good 20 days before he would likely die (with average rolls).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 01, 2013, 02:19:44 AM
Jungle's Rapture (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030420a) is nasty. Not just because it's a bitch to dispel, and it deals 1d6 Dexterity Drain each day that it is in effect, and that it turns you into a plant (which is generally less curable than death.)

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!

Didn't you hear? D&D characters never die of starvation, they just fall asleep forever and ever.

But seriously, though, you've got 3 days before anything happens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst), then it's a ~50% chance of 1d6 nonlethal (unhealable) per day. The Dex drain will get you before you notice the lack of food.

I know that it will barely do anything, it's just a dick move.

(Note to self: homebrew stuff that makes starvation worse.)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on March 01, 2013, 04:40:13 AM
Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!
Note that once you reach the levels that this spell would be seen in game, it takes a LOOOOONG time to starve to death (and you can only die from starvation if you use Rules Compendium; you can't die from it in Core).

I have a 10th level barbarian NPC that will be getting rescued from the Faerie Realm.  When he is rescued and returned to the Material Plane, he will instantly age 2 months, and effectively will not have eaten for two months.  Just yesterday I ran the Con checks and the nonlethal damage (and eventual lethal damage) for this 118 hp barbarian, and after two months of not eating, he had taken 118 points of nonlethal, then taken about 40 points of lethal damage.  He's still got a good 20 days before he would likely die (with average rolls).
Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst), forcing checks 1/hour.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Arz on March 01, 2013, 04:05:13 PM
Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!
Note that once you reach the levels that this spell would be seen in game, it takes a LOOOOONG time to starve to death (and you can only die from starvation if you use Rules Compendium; you can't die from it in Core).

I have a 10th level barbarian NPC that will be getting rescued from the Faerie Realm.  When he is rescued and returned to the Material Plane, he will instantly age 2 months, and effectively will not have eaten for two months.  Just yesterday I ran the Con checks and the nonlethal damage (and eventual lethal damage) for this 118 hp barbarian, and after two months of not eating, he had taken 118 points of nonlethal, then taken about 40 points of lethal damage.  He's still got a good 20 days before he would likely die (with average rolls).
Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst), forcing checks 1/hour.
Ouch, must drink 720 gallons of water or die! That's about 5,760# of water. Actually about a full grid square full of water. Total water bloat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 01, 2013, 05:08:24 PM
so like  :drunk

Water Elementals chugging Decanters Of Endless Water.
The one say to the other:  Do I look fat or pregnant now?
The other says with slurred speech:  You look like a Ss-olid Fff-fog !!

Bartender goes:   :rolleyes ... and pockets the extra dough from
conning the Water Elementals into buying 2 endless decanters.


Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 01, 2013, 06:05:44 PM
Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst), forcing checks 1/hour.
That would be a little too sadistic.  The flowing time trait for the Faerie Realm only mentions food, and dying of old age, not dying of thirst.
Quote
Flowing Time: For every day spent on the Plane of Faerie, a week passes on the Material Plane*. But unlike most planes with the flowing time trait, time lost on the Plane of Faerie catches up with the traveler. Non-natives who spend time on the Plane of Faerie and then return to a plane with the normal time trait instantly "catch up." Those affected may be ravenous if they have not eaten in weeks as measured by Material Plane time. A visitor who stays a long time on the Plane of Faerie may die if "catching up" with Material Plane time takes her beyond her normal life span. The natives of Faerie are unaffected by this phenomenon, and only the most astute natives mention it to visitors from the Material Plane.

If thirst were added to the equation, then the NPC described above would be dead after spending a mere four hours in the Faerie Realm (4.9 days)*.  Don't want to make it that punitive, though they will be described as EXTREMELY thirsty when they return.

*Note, I use a rate of one day in Faerie equals one lunar month on the material plane.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 01, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
Good as a true dragon though
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 01, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
Good as a true dragon though
:???

If you are referring to my cursed coin dragons, they could grow quickly on Midgard relative to the Faerie Realm, but they would grow and age very slowly relative to Midgard if they were in the Faerie Realm.  Now, that could be useful to some extremely long-term plots on the dragon's part, as he wouldn't need to sit and twiddle his claws, and could zip through the wait time, but it would otherwise age the dragon just the same.

He would also have the Con and HP's to outlast thirst and starvation.

Interestingly, according to the Rules Compendium, a Heal spell can cure someone of dehydration and thirst (but doesn't heal lost HP's when doing so), but cannot heal someone of starvation.

Quote
...[given water and under care for 24 or 48 hours with a Heal check, blah, blah]...Once a Heal check of this sort has succeeded, the damage taken by the creature can be restored through the normal means.

A heal spell can be used to rehydrate a creature in place of the recovery time, water, and a Heal check.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 01, 2013, 09:00:37 PM
Dehydration rules are clarified and expanded in Sandstorm, and the spell Hydrate (2nd lv) removes dehydration and heals all subdual damage caused by it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on March 01, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
Light mithral shields have 0% ASF, as does a mithral shirt or heavy mithral shield enchanted with Twilight.  And they have no ACP, too, so no non-proficiency penalties.

Twilight mithral feycraft Chain Shirt
Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on March 01, 2013, 10:06:23 PM
Doesn't Thistledown padding raise the ACP by 1? Meaning, lacking proficiency in light armor, you'd have a -1 to attack rolls?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 01, 2013, 10:12:23 PM
Twilight mithral feycraft Chain Shirt

feycraft is kinda pointless other than the weight reduction at that point...

Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.

The thistledown suit increases the ACP to -1, which is not good for anyone not proficient.  Granted, it is a different alternative, for those who don't mind the penalty and want the extra bit of coin.

Also for consideration: Feycraft or mithral dastana and chahar-aina.  Both work well in combination with the chain shirt for even more AC, and if you wanted, you could enchant one of them up to the the +5 enhancement to save on the Twilight cost for the mithral shirt.

Edit: Instead of Twilight for a mithral heavy shield, feycraft would be a cheaper option.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on March 01, 2013, 10:21:09 PM
Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.

The thistledown suit increases the ACP to -1, which is not good for anyone not proficient.  Granted, it is a different alternative, for those who don't mind the penalty and want the extra bit of coin.

Also for consideration: Feycraft or mithral dastana and chahar-aina.  Both work well in combination with the chain shirt for even more AC, and if you wanted, you could enchant one of them up to the the +5 enhancement to save on the Twilight cost for the mithral shirt.
Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 01, 2013, 10:25:37 PM
Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.

Not quite.  -2 ACP, lowered by 3 from mithral to a minimum of 0, thistledown increases by 1.  Total -1 ACP.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nanshork on March 01, 2013, 10:28:33 PM
Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.

Not quite.  -2 ACP, lowered by 3 from mithral to a minimum of 0, thistledown increases by 1.  Total -1 ACP.

You do realize that there is nothing saying that you can't apply them in the order most beneficial to you right?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 01, 2013, 10:39:35 PM
Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Halinn on March 01, 2013, 11:03:50 PM
Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.
We're talking D&D, right? When did logic enter the equation? Anyways, even if it does have 1 ACP (I remain of the opinion that beneficial ordering applies, though), it's great for arcane casters (alongside mithral charar-aina and mithral dastana, of course)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 02, 2013, 05:00:57 AM
Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.

Judging by the fluff of RotW and the fact that you can't buy just a Thistledown Suit (you can buy Thistledown Padded Armor, but that's different), it seems like you make a Mithral Thistledown Chain Shirt all at once.  If that's the case, it seems like the ACP would also all be applied at once, in the most beneficial order.

You're correct that feycraft is largely unnecessary (I was thinking Twilight only reduced ASF by 5%), but you could instead save yourself a chunk of change and do Mithral Feycraft Thistledown'd Chain Shirt instead.  Those 3 are all static costs, as opposed to the +1 bonus from Twilight.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 02, 2013, 05:12:13 AM
Judging by the fluff of RotW and the fact that you can't buy just a Thistledown Suit (you can buy Thistledown Padded Armor, but that's different), it seems like you make a Mithral Thistledown Chain Shirt all at once.  If that's the case, it seems like the ACP would also all be applied at once, in the most beneficial order.

You can't buy just the thistledown suit?  From what I can see, it costs 250gp, is made with a separate craft skill, and weighs the same as standard underpadding for metal armour, which it can substitute.  That pretty much suggests that you can swap it out at any time, not just when the armour is first made.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 02, 2013, 12:20:20 PM
I parsed that sentence as "when you create a Thistledown suit, it costs you 250gp with a successful craft check," implying that you can't just buy one.  I can see how it could be read differently, though.  Not that it's evidence in its own right, but Forestwarden Shroud and Armor Spikes (and Netcutter spikes by extension) all have language that explicitly allows adding them to pre-existing armor.  Thistledown doesn't. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 03, 2013, 01:08:40 AM
Just had the oddest realization, and a re-reading of the feats does not contradict it...  It may still be a TO reading, but technically it works by RAW...

Empower Spell and Maximize Spell would affect any requisite attack rolls for the spells!  They are variable, numeric effects, and are not opposed rolls or saving throws!

Edit:  This makes Maximize Spell worth its level adjustment.  All spells with attack rolls are auto crits!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2013, 02:49:33 AM
*grins*
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on March 03, 2013, 05:27:35 AM
The attack roll is not an effect of the spell, it's a requirement to get certain spells to hit in the first place. The spell's effect (which can be modified with Empower and Maximized if it's numeric and variable) is what happens when and if you hit, not before.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 03, 2013, 06:22:18 AM
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on March 03, 2013, 11:15:23 AM
If that's the case, empower is pretty much a 100% auto-hit, because the way it stacks increases all your modifiers by 50%, including BAB and Dexterity.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on March 03, 2013, 11:44:09 AM
/jranger
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on March 03, 2013, 11:51:53 AM
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.

This way lies madness.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2013, 12:52:41 PM
Never said it didn't, but its RAW... Since most touch spells mention the touch attack in their description
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 03, 2013, 02:20:19 PM
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on March 03, 2013, 02:33:11 PM
More than that - there's finally a way to make combining mecha. :love
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 03, 2013, 02:39:33 PM
More than that - there's finally a way to make combining mecha. :love

Like stacking one on top of another or something?  You have me somewhat curious.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on March 03, 2013, 02:43:44 PM
I was thinking more "flying construct attaches as a winged jetpack" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vRrM2_KhXU); handling a tower of five guys with Mounted Combat could get confusing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 03, 2013, 02:51:30 PM
Dragonlance seems to be full of good ones.  These are from Races of Ansalon.

Demolition Strike [General]
You are skilled in seeking out and exploiting weaknesses in
constructed objects.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Improved Sunder, Wis 13
Benefits: You may ignore the hardness of an object when
making a sunder attempt by an amount equal to half your
character level. In addition, you may ignore a construct’s
immunity to sneak attacks and critical hits.

Kinda wish they had said "immunity to precision damage and critical hits" but it's still a nice feat.

Earth Presence [General]
You have a strong connection to the earth and can use it to
feel slight movements around you.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, base Fortitude save +5, Dex 13
Benefit: As long as you are touching the earth you gain a
+2 bonus to Reflex saves and cannot be caught flat-footed by
creatures within 30 feet of you.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Arz on March 03, 2013, 03:37:49 PM
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?

Kobold with slight build can also ride critter of his size.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on March 03, 2013, 03:42:03 PM
From Knightly Orders of Ansalon (Dragonlance) :

Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.

Could be fun for mounted characters to have more interesting steeds.  Medium druid riding a fleshraker, anyone?

Kobold with slight build can also ride critter of his size.

So with this feat he could ride a tiny mount?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on March 03, 2013, 04:52:51 PM
Sure it is.  You must first pick the target(s) of such spells, and if the number of targets is an effect that can be modified (which must occur before any attack rolls can take place), then any subsequent rolls to see exactly what happens to said target(s) must therefore be effects of that choice.  The feats even call out saving throws and opposed rolls as not being allowed to be modified, with no indication that they are not effects, and instead merely exemptions to the benefits of the feats.  Take Ray of Enfeeblement, for instance.  The attack roll is stated right in the "effects" portion of the spell.  It is the first numeric, variable effect of the spell.  The penalty to any hit target's strength is the second.  Yes, one effect is reliant on the other to first succeed, but that does not change the fact that the first is still an effect of the spell.

Your argument is correct with regards to things like spell failure and concentration checks, because they are not governed by the spell itself, but rather the act of casting a spell, regardless of what its effects might be, including choosing targets or the location of the area or such.

Show me a DM who'd be willing to consider this with a straight face for even one second, and I'll concede the point. This isn't even RAWyering, it's strictly bad parsing of what the words "effects of a spell" mean.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 03, 2013, 05:19:50 PM
This isn't even RAWyering, it's strictly bad parsing of what the words "effects of a spell" mean.
Quote from: Caelic
"Really, this seems like it's based on willfully forgetting how the chart works; I don't see how it can be justified.  There's RAI, and then there's RAW, and then there's "Hey, if I deliberately misread this look how powerful it is!"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 03, 2013, 06:17:13 PM
The master class (War of the Lance) has an ability called faithful aide that grants a cohort.  It's available at the 1st level of master, but it requires 7 ranks in a profession skill.  So, you can get it at 4th level if that's when you take your 1st level of master. 

It also has an ability called complementary scholarship that lets you use half your ranks in one knowledge skill in place of your ranks in other knowledge skills.  That's also available at 1st level and has no prerequisites. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2013, 07:42:43 PM
That means the kobold could ride a swarm, which would be... strange

@maat mons
I'm afb, does it stack with leadership?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on March 03, 2013, 10:09:59 PM
I'm afb, does it stack with leadership?
I don't see anything that suggests it wouldn't.

(I know I'm not maat mons, but I'm familiar with the class :p)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2013, 09:49:59 AM
*chimes in too*
Empower doesn't work like that. Also, it notes Empower doesn't apply to opposed rolls but it's not talking about a Bullrush Check kthx. It uses Dispel Magic as it's example, and rolling a 1d20 vs a semi-static number is literately what Dispel Magic is meant for and does without including any other rules (such as rules on attacking). Also per RAW, the FAQ is absolutely is a part of the game's rules and we know it doesn't agree with you.

And Kethrian thinking 1d20+50% means "All spells with attack rolls are auto crits!" is right beside it in the same level of assinnine claims. Even with Improved Critical[touch attacks] and "omfg Empower Applies to that non-variable number as well!" the Critical Range  is only 18~20. There again applying Empower to the Attack Roll then in total it comes out to a 45% chance of success to threaten. Because you still need an 11 or higher on the die for it to work.

I'm just saying, someone before posting their wild claims they didn't think things through. At. All.
So the entire post rings with an false sense of purpose.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 04, 2013, 11:10:18 AM
*chimes in too*
Empower doesn't work like that. Also, it notes Empower doesn't apply to opposed rolls but it's not talking about a Bullrush Check kthx. It uses Dispel Magic as it's example, and rolling a 1d20 vs a semi-static number is literately what Dispel Magic is meant for and does without including any other rules (such as rules on attacking). Also per RAW, the FAQ is absolutely is a part of the game's rules and we know it doesn't agree with you.

And Kethrian thinking 1d20+50% means "All spells with attack rolls are auto crits!" is right beside it in the same level of assinnine claims. Even with Improved Critical[touch attacks] and "omfg Empower Applies to that non-variable number as well!" the Critical Range  is only 18~20. There again applying Empower to the Attack Roll then in total it comes out to a 45% chance of success to threaten. Because you still need an 11 or higher on the die for it to work.

I'm just saying, someone before posting their wild claims they didn't think things through. At. All.
So the entire post rings with an false sense of purpose.

Umm, I think you need your eyes checked.  I never said Empower Spell would get all auto crits.  That was for Maximize Spell, where the attack roll would automatically be a 20 every time.  I also declared the whole concept a TO reading of the feats.  Of course no DM would ever allow it.  No DM would ever allow anything from TO.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 04, 2013, 11:57:45 AM
Yeah the FAQ clearly says it doesn't work like that. d20 rolls required to adjudicate a spell's success or failure are not considered to be a "variable numeric effect"
Which kind of begs the question, what IS considered a "variable numeric effect?" It can't be things found in the "effect" line of the spell, cuz then it wouldn't work with Fireball and the like.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on March 04, 2013, 12:09:15 PM
Yeah the FAQ clearly says it doesn't work like that. d20 rolls required to adjudicate a spell's success or failure are not considered to be a "variable numeric effect"
Which kind of begs the question, what IS considered a "variable numeric effect?" It can't be things found in the "effect" line of the spell, cuz then it wouldn't work with Fireball and the like.

I thought the consensus was that the FAQ should be ignored since it sometimes contradicts itself?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 04, 2013, 12:15:24 PM
I thought the consensus was that the FAQ should be ignored since it sometimes contradicts itself?

The consensus is that there is no consensus.
Some view it as RAW, others don't. Some only use it for clarification of RAW, picking and choosing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 04, 2013, 01:57:38 PM
I am of the opinion that the FAQ is an authority only in the areas that the rules are unclear in. If the rules say one thing and the FAQ contradicts that, then the rules trump. In this particular case, the rules obviously contradict the designers' intent, and the FAQ attempts to clarify the intent. So either maximize makes rays auto-crit or it maximizes damage for Fireball, depending on whether you think the FAQ or the PHB trumps.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 04, 2013, 03:56:02 PM
I thought the consensus was that the FAQ should be ignored since it sometimes contradicts itself?
Errata & Books contradicts them selves so that's not a very good counter point.

People just pick and choose what they like. And since more often that not, people half read stuff and tend to be ignorant little pricks about how their interpretation is the only and only true one. When the FAQ disagrees with their little trick they say and do whatever they can to insult it. It's a combination sweeping and appeal fallacy. eg. Convince the masses the FAQ is incorrect because of [don't insert a reason here] and it must be wrong in all cases, so believe my words and not its'.

The important part to remember here, and this goes beyond D&D rules, is a language is used to convey thoughts and ideas. You encode your thoughts into words in an attempt to pass your message which is in turn read and interpreted by the other guy. Perhaps the sender has poor communication skills and needs to explain things multiple times, or perhaps the other guy just doesn't listen obviously. But those excuses aside, it doesn't change the fact that "RAW" arguments are often based on disregarding the intended message in exchange for your own making it in every possible way incorrect and wrong. The "FAQ" is just another tool in the box to tell people to stfu, and being quite often the easier to directly quote and it's nature of being the frequently asked, it statistically finds it's way into all sorts of discussions.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on March 04, 2013, 11:38:35 PM
Who writes the FAQ? Playtesters? Game Designers? The people who actually wrote the rules? No? Then it's just another "opinion". FAQ is not Word of God in any sense. It's not supposed to be an errata. it was never it's intended purpose.

when errata contradicts the book, the errata is the "right" way of seeing it, because of seniority, and it's explicitly said like so in the Rules Compendium. Where in the Rules Compendium does it mention the FAQ? Plus, it states in the FAQ's entry(https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) that it does not cover Errata.


The FAQ is an opinion. It's like asking your DM. It's not word of god. It was never intended as such.

My personal opinion? Ignore FAQ/Sage/CustServ. They're more often than not, answers given by people who have absolutely no awareness of the system.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 12:25:04 AM
In the Book of Vile Darkness FAQ, the 4-5th one down is retarded!

they say that for a spell, a focus is a material component that is not consumed with the spell.

what?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 05, 2013, 12:39:35 AM
Other than the fact that they lack a properly-defined is-a relationship, focuses pretty much are material components that aren't consumed. That's pretty much how they're described in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components). Not quite, though, since, as I said above, they lack an is-a relationship.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 12:46:22 AM
But there are quite a few things that call one out over the other, the way the FAQ puts it, they're the same
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 05, 2013, 01:06:01 AM
Yeah. I'm just saying that it's not as far-fetched as "retarded" would imply.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 01:10:32 AM
Lol k... Dumb then? Incompetent?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 05, 2013, 07:45:37 AM
But there are quite a few things that call one out over the other, the way the FAQ puts it, they're the same
Oh thank Pelor for Zook.

Please reread this section everyone.
People just pick and choose what they like. And since more often that not, people half read stuff and tend to be ignorant little pricks about how their interpretation is the only and only true one. When the FAQ SRD disagrees with their little trick they say and do whatever they can to insult it.
Now look at those Focus rules. It's a Component (like somatic/verbal/xp/etc), but not a Material Component rule wise and Focus alone even says as much.

Finally, look at Zook's behavior. He is wrong on the FAQ entry (which btw is a ruling on the contradiction between Corrupt having no material components and AftS having one, or base rules suck) and when pointed out that he has no idea what a Focus is. Guess what he throws under the bus.

I believe my point is proven.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on March 05, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
So... what you're saying is that when you feel like the SRD should trump, it does (Material component != focus), but when you feel like the FAQ should trump, then it does (AftS has a focus, not a material component)? 

Either the FAQ is wrong, or the SRD got stealth-errata'd.   
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 05, 2013, 12:44:10 PM
I thought the consensus was that the FAQ should be ignored since it sometimes contradicts itself?

The consensus is that there is no consensus.
Some view it as RAW, others don't. Some only use it for clarification of RAW, picking and choosing.

I thought we should ignore this argument, since its continued existence contradicts itself.
Especially since I, at least, have read every last argument made here at least 7 times now.

Agree that there is no one true right answer.
Agree that the different people here are going to use this resource differently than you, and have reasons for it.
Agree that this is, inherently, because WotC is made of multiple people, and they don't always agree with each other either.

And then STFU.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 05, 2013, 12:56:48 PM
You're completely missing everything.

First of all, get off this Material as an English word. Spells have a verity of Components, including and not limited to Verbal, Somatic, Focus, Material, and XP. So while you can hold a Focus and it is indeed a material object, it isn't a Material Component.

Secondly, BoVD says Corrupt spells have no Material Components. It also goes on to print AftS, which does have a Material Component entry. This is a contradiction in rules. So while best handling of it is specific entry trumps (AtfS), it doesn't change the fact the rules are in need of a correction.

BoVD's FAQ entry changes AtfS's Material Component into a Focus Component. And as a Focus it isn't consumed in casting, which is a of course & no duh thing obviously.

The only "problem" is the total lack of understanding towards what a Material Component is and why a Focus Component isn't the same thing. Zook tossed the SRD under the bus the moment is disagreed with him. Citing Focus Components are Material Components and consumed in spellcasting (poor poor clerics) despite being separate entries and Focus flat out saying it is unlike a Material Component.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 01:04:22 PM
But there are quite a few things that call one out over the other, the way the FAQ puts it, they're the same
Oh thank Pelor for Zook.

Please reread this section everyone.
People just pick and choose what they like. And since more often that not, people half read stuff and tend to be ignorant little pricks about how their interpretation is the only and only true one. When the FAQ SRD disagrees with their little trick they say and do whatever they can to insult it.
Now look at those Focus rules. It's a Component (like somatic/verbal/xp/etc), but not a Material Component rule wise and Focus alone even says as much.

Finally, look at Zook's behavior. He is wrong on the FAQ entry (which btw is a ruling on the contradiction between Corrupt having no material components and AftS having one, or base rules suck) and when pointed out that he has no idea what a Focus is. Guess what he throws under the bus.

I believe my point is proven.

did you even read the link that i was referring to? well here it is

(click to show/hide)

this says EXACTLY that a focus IS a material component. not just a generic 'spell component'

how is that a wrong interpretation. its written exactly as i argued.

maybe they just had poor editing... its not like this is the first time that's happened ;)

but please next time, do your own research before telling me i'm wrong or call out my 'behavior'

P.S.- no, i could not find out with my brief google/wizards search on what date the d20 SRD was set up, so i can't tell which came first.

(click to show/hide)

we can assume that a focus is not a material component, since it gives the impression that its not. but assume is the key word, thats the difference between RAI and RAW

Secondly, BoVD says Corrupt spells have no Material Components. It also goes on to print AftS, which does have a Material Component entry. This is a contradiction in rules. So while best handling of it is specific entry trumps (AtfS), it doesn't change the fact the rules are in need of a correction.

as i said before, Wizards has had some problems with editing elsewhere.

also as i mentioned, i could not find out which came first. but that doesn't matter since the SRD doesn't say that a focus is no longer a material component, which has been 'ruled'
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 05, 2013, 01:24:09 PM
this says EXACTLY that a focus IS a material component. not just a generic 'spell component'
Please return to elementary school.

When it said "A focus is a material component (just not a material component that is consumed in the casting of the spell)." in the introduction, it wasn't meaning a Material Component, merely material. As observed seconds later when it flat out says it's a Focus.
"the artifact needed for the apocalypse from the sky spell is a focus and is not consumed when the spell is cast."

And honestly. That is all there is to it. Book rules are self contradicting, FAQ updates things, you can't read. And somewhere in that I'm supposed to believe you that the FAQ is so terrible written I should disregard it entirely because f*ck the official rule documents. Yeah, I'm going with no on that one.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 05, 2013, 01:30:51 PM
A mod needs to split this crap.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 01:57:00 PM
well i said my piece and whatever
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 05, 2013, 01:59:36 PM
Same.

So in other news... What cool thing did you find today?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agita on March 05, 2013, 01:59:42 PM
A mod needs to split this crap.
I don't even know where to start. Suggestions are welcome.

Or maybe SorO just needs to stop barking at pet peeves and accept that nobody else cares as much as he does.

EDIT: If everyone agrees to let it rest, I'm fine with leaving it as is or splitting it off for purposes of reading flow, whichever.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 05, 2013, 02:03:34 PM
A mod needs to split this crap.
I don't even know where to start. Suggestions are welcome.

Or maybe SorO just needs to stop barking at pet peeves and accept that nobody else cares as much as he does.
Ninja'ed you.

And I didn't bring up the FAQ discussion, it was mentioned in passing almost as a foot note towards Kethran's post. Someone else refuted it's legitimacy, just like someone else decided thought they needed to provide an example otherwise. *shrugs* It's hard to walk up hill in sludge right?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 05, 2013, 02:22:42 PM
Besides the fact that Improved Trip triggers off of the Throw maneuvers from Setting Sun?

Not much.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2013, 07:48:32 PM
Aptitude gets to be lots of fun on both attacks and AoOs

feats-
Boomerang Daze dazes your foe, must save per weapon
Double Hit gives you an off-hand simultaneous AoO
Lightning Maces gives you a free attack with a crit threat
Robilar’s Gambit gives you an AoO whenever a foe attacks you
Roundabout Kick gives you a free attack with a successful crit
Shield Charge gives you a free trip per weapon with a charge
Shield Slam dazes your foe with a charge or full attack, must save per weapon
Spinning Halberd gives you an extra attack per weapon with a full attack

extra enhancements-
Doomstrike gives you a free attack with the enhanced weapon when you sunder a foe's weapon.
Fleshgrinding on the weapon makes things very interesting

(click to show/hide)

P.S.- The Warbringer's Rod in Complete Mage is a pseudo-Aptitude weapon if your DM disallows Aptitude ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 06, 2013, 02:23:31 AM
Here is an interesting clause from Stone Body:
Quote
A transmute mud to rock heals you of all your lost hit points.
Granted it takes two spells of 6th and 5th levels, but it is basically an arcane self-heal, except it heals ALL your hit point damage, plus nonlethal, and is not limited to 10 hp's per caster level.
TBH that deserves a dirty trick entry. Care to submit?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on March 06, 2013, 02:20:09 PM
Here is an interesting clause from Stone Body:
Quote
A transmute mud to rock heals you of all your lost hit points.
Granted it takes two spells of 6th and 5th levels, but it is basically an arcane self-heal, except it heals ALL your hit point damage, plus nonlethal, and is not limited to 10 hp's per caster level.
TBH that deserves a dirty trick entry. Care to submit?
Where is that?  In the handbooks section?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 07, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Living Spell can be applied to Blockade (Complete Mage)  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bastian on March 09, 2013, 01:59:43 AM
Living Spell can be applied to Blockade (Complete Mage)  :twitch
That's pretty awesome.

On a side note, Blockade is actually from Complete Scoundrel.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 09, 2013, 05:47:02 AM
Whatever :P

but an ooze block of wood? O_O
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 13, 2013, 12:33:52 PM
Whatever :P

but an ooze block of wood? O_O

now apply the half-celestial or half-fiendish template to it, for the auto-int boost to 3, then give it monk levels for boosted movement rate, and bureaucrat (aristocrat?) levels for just being in your way all the time... really really fast. call it red.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on March 13, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
Wouldn't it be an ooze that makes blocks of wood whenever it hits something?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 13, 2013, 05:40:24 PM
The Question is:  what my wood oozes after the blockade ... for 1000 uhh Wink ?

(I have no idea where that came from)


**


Ardent 10 / Erudite 1 / Metamind 1 (ya rilly)
Metamind lets you fest any level 1 power
you know for free 3 times a day.
Erudite lets you learn all 1st level powers.
Ardent 10 ability + Linked is juicy by itself.
Metapower reduces the Linked cost by 2.

Result:  Fest all the level 1s for free Linked to the
power you normally want, at a -2 ppoint discount.

Commentary:  Lags recharge by a large margin,
but is within the R.A.I. unintended spillovers.
And is a somewhat reasonable build.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 13, 2013, 09:27:52 PM
Living Blockade is just a gelatinous cube's little cousin
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 13, 2013, 11:58:32 PM
I hardcore read it, and White Dragon Lineage (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=White_Dragon_Lineage) would trigger any effect that triggered on you raging, even though it doesn't share much else with Rage (the first sentence explicitly states "rage similar to that of a Barbarian's rage", implying this fact, and it specifies that " Unlike rage, this state doesn't restrict you from casting spells or performing any other actions", which it wouldn't have to state if it didn't behave like rage.)

I think that on a Cha 10 character (maybe a Duskblade with Dragontouched), that 1 round duration would give fun times for some of the less used feats (Mad Foam Rager would give you the 1/round ability to delay any effect that targets you for 1 round. Fun. Times.), though you would have to dip Barbarian to grab actual rage to meet prerequisites.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 14, 2013, 12:11:30 AM
Intimidating rage too
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 14, 2013, 10:11:41 AM
I hardcore read it, and ...though you would have to dip Barbarian to grab actual rage to meet prerequisites.
 (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=White_Dragon_Lineage)

or half orc paragon, among others.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 14, 2013, 03:32:57 PM
Proto-creature from Bestiary of Krynn gets a rage for +0 LA and no class levels.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 14, 2013, 09:23:08 PM
Here is an interesting clause from Stone Body:
Quote
A transmute mud to rock heals you of all your lost hit points.
Granted it takes two spells of 6th and 5th levels, but it is basically an arcane self-heal, except it heals ALL your hit point damage, plus nonlethal, and is not limited to 10 hp's per caster level.
TBH that deserves a dirty trick entry. Care to submit?
Where is that?  In the handbooks section?
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8909 Oddly it took a sec for me to find too. :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 16, 2013, 03:16:32 PM
Who loves action points? Everyone? Thought so.

How about another reason to love them?

Quote from: Fortress of the Yuan-Ti
Power Attack: You can spend 1 action point to double the bonus on damage rolls granted by the feat. For example, if you take a penalty of -3 on your attack roll, you add 6 to your damage roll.

So even Fighters have a reason to want infinite action points.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 03:25:32 PM
You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/raging-luck--2351/). It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.

Seriously, with White Dragon Heritage, you can dump cantrips to get a round of Rage. That is a seriously nice boost right there.

Especially since, if you take into account the fact that a Wizard with Arcane Manipulation could drop an Xth level spell for 2X Cantrips... That is a massive amount of "free" rage.

Sure, it takes your Swift action, but if that is too much of a problem, you can bump your Charisma up until it lasts, say, 3 rounds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 16, 2013, 03:43:25 PM
As said before, mad foam rager is pretty powerful with that combo!

plus get reckless rage and ettercap berserker? for extra rage stats


if only Frenzied Berserker' frenzy was based on the rage duration, not its own duration
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 16, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
Someone needs to do a progressed build for this.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 04:09:45 PM
Hmm...

I'm thinking that if you combo'd it with a Berserking sword (perma-rage in battle), it would allow you to every other round spend a swift to get Rage up, allowing you to be pretty well covered.

Sadly, the new round version of White Dragon Heritage doesn't work that well with Mad Foam Rager unless you aren't planning on raging the next round; WDH takes a Swift, while MFR takes an Immediate.

Does anyone else think it would be useful if there was an Action Point handbook? I want to see what neat things we could get up to...

Wait.

If we stack it on another rage (say from the Berserking Sword or maybe the Rage spell), we could use Raging Luck to get two action points, thus allowing us to use Action Surge.

That comes out to (if you are stacking, say, Berserking Sword with actual rage and WDHing it up every few rounds) around two extra Standard/Move actions an encounter.

That sounds pretty nice, actually. White Dragon Heritage might actually make Rage Mage a bit more useable, thanks to the fact that you could use to essentially swap a Swift action for a Standard later that encounter...

You know what, I think I might try to build this. Thinking of a pithy name...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 16, 2013, 04:12:30 PM
Were-wolverine half-troll tauric anthropomorphic badger/dire badger

gives you 3 more rages

@name... Fuzzy Wuzzy? :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 04:19:29 PM
I was actually thinking of something a bit more basic, that could be worked up from...

If it works well enough, I kinda foresee a handbook.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 16, 2013, 04:37:48 PM
Lol k... Was just trying to throw out ideas ;)

Ragey McRagerson?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 16, 2013, 04:55:51 PM
You know what? Barbarians want that even more.

Take a look at Raging Luck (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/raging-luck--2351/). It gives you a temporary Action Point whenever you rage.

I'm thinking that a Rage Mage with Raging Luck, Power Attack, and White Dragon Heritage would be a sight to behold, thanks to (if you, you know, played an Int based caster and dumped Cha) 1 round "at-Will" rages.
There for a minute I was like, oh sweet.

Then I was like, wait, why not use Unfettering HeroismEB:RoE for free AP every round since you're a spellcaster?

And then I was like White Dragon Heritage? Never heard of it. And it grants Rage? Oh sweet.
Gotta find it.

But apparently you meant White Dragon Linage from Dragon Magic, and it doesn't give you Rage to begin with.
("similar to" != "is" && it's nothing like Rage)

Thanks for getting my hopes up and crushing them, it's like High-school all over again :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 05:08:07 PM
If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 16, 2013, 05:11:08 PM
If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.

If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 16, 2013, 06:02:44 PM
Spectres of Sorrow p169 Nail of Iteration. Cast where magic was recently cast (must have an aura around). Sending to original caster AND re-proc the originally cast spell, up to 5th level spells or SLA. 4k, 1 use.

There's got to be someway to use that...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 08:57:17 PM
Speaking of sharp objects...

Spirit Needle (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/spirit-needle--566/) is a 6th-level Wu-Jen Metal spell with a very particular use.

You make a normal ranged attack against a "spirit creature"; if you hit, they are forced Corporeal, and are literally pinned in place.

They can't move from that spot by any means unless the needle is removed, and can't even change their state (no activating Gaseous Form or Ethereal Jaunt for you, mister!) until someone else removes the needle from their body.

Now, in OA, a spirit creature is a really specific term; it only applies to creatures of the [Spirit] subtype.

However, the only place that a "spirit" is defined in 3.5 is in the sidebar connected to the Spirit Shaman, where it expands the designation to cover:

All incorporeal undead
All fey
All elementals
Creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not a creature physically present on the Astral Plane)
All creatures of the spirit subtype
Spirit folk and telthors
Spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose

Yes, that is a large list. And, hey, I'm pretty sure there is at least one spell somewhere that turns you into a fey or elemental; and, failing that, it's at least good at locking down incorporeal undead.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 16, 2013, 10:16:59 PM
If he can't be bothered to read back to when you said that the first time, going so far as to whine about having to look up what you're talking about when you linked to it, then maybe it would be better to ignore him. Since he obviously ignored half the conversation about this when he typed up his little quip.
Funny story.
Amechra posted White Dragon Heritage gives Rage.
zook1shoe says Mad Foam Rager.
ariasderros says nothing useful.
Amechra talks about White Dragon Heritage has Action problems with Mad Foam Rager. Still no Source mentioned.
zook1shoe breaks out Badgers.
Amechra is thinking Handbook.
zook1shoe comments.
SorO posts about there is no such thing as White Dragon Heritage, wishes source was mentioned, finds out it's not granting Rage.
Amechra's rebuttal on it not being Rage.
ariasderros shows off his talent for not reading and eats his own foot.

Brilliantly played ariasderros. :clap

If you look at the wording, it strongly implies that it is Rage-like enough to trigger stuff that works off Rage. It wouldn't even have mentioned it if that wasn't the case.
Did you catch the shrunken text? If not, in detail;
1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
Powerful Build makes you large!
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.
Frenzy Berskerker's Frenzy is similar to Rage, Whirling Frenzy is similar to Rage, Battlewine is similar to Rage. Heck a Sorcerer is similar to a Wizard. similar to doesn't mean it is.
3. Other than the binary nature of on or off it is not similar to Rage at all.
Rage grants Str/Con/Will bonuses, penalizes AC, prevents mental activities,  fatigues the user when it ends, duration is based on Con, and the Barbarian can trigger a limited times per day. White Dragon Linage on the other hand grants 0~9 Temp HP, Cold Resistance 0~45, carries no limitations or negative effects, duration based off Cha, and the Sorcerer can trigger it using Spell Slots. A Haste Spell is just as comparable to Rage as this thing.

No it's not Rage and it doesn't strongly imply anything of the sort. 2 alone is one hell of a counter point, 1 & 3 are just some RAI gravy. You would have been better off claiming Rage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rage.htm) is similar to Rage than White Dragon "Heritage".

I suggest using Unfettered Heroism instead. Page 190 in Races of Eberron.
Or Poly into a Badger.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on March 16, 2013, 10:21:34 PM
1. Introduction over-empathized over actual rules.
2. Over-Empathized section doesn't support the claim.

You mean emphasised. Empathy is completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 16, 2013, 10:40:40 PM
I never said it gave you rage for qualifications, only that it triggered rage-like effects; and, by the way, Battlewine actually doesn't say it is similar to rage. And the other things you mentioned? While they don't count towards prereqs as rage, they do trigger any effect that triggers on rage.

So I don't see how 2 refutes what I'm saying?

Also, if you actually look at the feat, the references to "ways this doesn't work like other rages" are throughout the entire feat, not just in the intro.

Also, the Haste spell doesn't mention Rage at all, does it?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 16, 2013, 10:53:17 PM
Okay, I don't know what the hell you've been on the last couple of days, SorO. Starting fights with everyone, more than usual, seriously. And now you are getting petulant. To say nothing of your strawmans there.

Since linking to what logical fallacies are has not previously worked with you: A Strawman is when you intentionally misrepresent another persons argument in order to more easily defeat it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 17, 2013, 12:55:27 AM
The deadly feint feat (Ultimate Feats, p37) has the following effect:
Quote
If you successfully feint in combat and attack your opponent while he is denied his Dexterity bonus to armor class, that attack is automatically a critical threat.

The greater feint (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-feint-combat---final) feat could allow multiple attacks to benefit from a single feint. 

As an aside, I don't think surprising riposte could substitute for greater feint.  The loss of dexterity bonus on the later attacks with surprising riposte would be from being flat-footed, not from the feint itself. 

It's possible to either gain an extra move action or feint as a swift action. 

Unfortunately, according to the basic rules, “Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.”  So, lightning mace doesn't give you infinite attacks.  I suppose you could try to argue that the text in deadly feint trumps the general rule.  But, if we're getting nitpicky, you could also argue that automatically threatening a critical doesn't fulfill the “roll a threat” part of lightning mace. 

Anyway, using a weapon with a *4 critical multiplier could make threatening a critical on every attack fairly potent.  Alternately, enervating (Magic Item Compendium, p34) and consumptive burst (Planar Handbook, p79) each bestow a negative level on a critical hit. 

All the things I can think of to auto-confirm a critical have limitations.  Well, weapon mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Mastery-Ex-) could work, but it requires 20 level in fighter. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on March 17, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
...

There's also a spell in CC that gives you a luck bonus to rolls, or can be discharged to get an auto-20. It does work on save and attack rolls, too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2013, 02:20:02 AM
That book has some ridiculously good feats, some horrendously bad ones, and everything in between
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 17, 2013, 03:47:30 AM
If the source book is a problem, Rokugan has an identical feat.  I didn't reference that one because “the pincers hold, the tail strikes” is a cumbersome name. 

When I say they're identical, I mean literally word-for-word, except changing the name of the feat and the name of a prerequisite feat.  That prerequisite feat was also copied word-for-word by Ultimate Feats.  Again, except for the name. 

Hmm, my opinion of Mongoose Publishing is growing lower as I write this post. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2013, 12:04:17 PM
That's hilarious, they stole at least one feat, and you caught em
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on March 17, 2013, 12:09:45 PM
Regarding White Dragon Lineage, I'm gonna have to side with SorO. "Similar to" doesn't mean "as if using" or any other language that sets up a rules dependency. Since its actual mechanics are actually not very similar at all, what it tells me is that the authors had this fluff idea in mind and had to insert that text to ensure the readers understood what they were trying to do. That they pointed out ways in which it is different from rage is reminder text, essentially. "Remember, this isn't an actual rage, so this particular thing we remember about rage isn't applicable", rather than a complete list of all things that differ from rage.

Best case scenario for the trick, it's similar to that Mind Blast feat that tells you you can channel power points into it and then gives you no rules for doing anything of the sort. They tell you it's similar, and then completely fail to tell you how. Then "it acts like rage" becomes a plausible interpretation of RAI. On the other hand, I can't in good conscience insist that rules that make a Rage Mage better are entirely unbalanced, although this interpretation still seems like it heavily favors full casters who dip a level of barbarian. Rage Mage is still terrible due to lost CLs.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 17, 2013, 12:48:01 PM
What's your thoughts on the badger and wolverine rage abilities, counting for rage feats, etc?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 17, 2013, 06:13:16 PM
I've always sorta counted it as the same thing.

And that is based off the idea that a Wolverine has an Extraordinary Ability called "Rage" (opposed to left fielding for the spell), and most Rage Feats don't specify the Barbarian's Rage but merely a Rage Ability. Of course, if they wanted the Barbarian's version...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Gazzien on March 18, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
Really quick, could I get a book title and page number for the Deadly Feint / its Rokugan original?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 18, 2013, 10:27:54 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a

Notice one of the ACFs for Psion (Eogist):
Change Shape

You gain the minor change shape ability, like that of a changeling.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: The bonus feat at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain the minor change shape ability that is possessed by changelings.

Makes an awesome dip for a Warshaper build.  Or most anyone who likes their Disguise checks.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 19, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
Now, the real question is whether that would let you qualify for Racial Emulation...

I just checked, and it doesn't. Damn it.

I'm pretty sure all of the nice Changeling feats require you to be a Changeling.

EDIT: Warforged, for Robots in Disguise? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQwrO-LJWE4)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on March 19, 2013, 01:22:02 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a

Notice one of the ACFs for Psion (Eogist):
Change Shape

You gain the minor change shape ability, like that of a changeling.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: The bonus feat at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain the minor change shape ability that is possessed by changelings.

Makes an awesome dip for a Warshaper build.  Or most anyone who likes their Disguise checks.

Well, the thing is...  Does the "Minor" portion of Minor Change Shape disqualify it from Warshaper?  YMMV.
Regardless, Minor change shape is a cool ability especially for a one level dip.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on March 19, 2013, 01:27:46 AM
The Acheron Flurry feat from the Planar Handbook is not something I see discussed much.
Unless I'm missing something, the ability to limit an enemy to a Standard or Move action seems quite powerful.
Standard action to use, plus it requires you have damaged your target (with your Unarmed Strike) at some point in the encounter and be adjacent to the foe.
However, it does not require a hit or allow a save!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 19, 2013, 01:40:21 AM
Well, the thing is...  Does the "Minor" portion of Minor Change Shape disqualify it from Warshaper?  YMMV.
Regardless, Minor change shape is a cool ability especially for a one level dip.

If you're referring to the Egoist version, then I agree it's a bit iffy.  It doesn't give the character the shapechanger subtype, so it's all on a change shape supernatural ability.  Bit of a shame they didn't add the shapechanger potential, but of course it's likely thought of as too much for a single level dip.  Perhaps 5 levels into Egoist would have worked.

As for Acheron Flurry (http://dndtools.eu/feats/planar-handbook--79/acheron-flurry--23/), it is fairly nice.  Bit more reliable than Slow since it doesn't have a save, but it's also less effective since it's trading multiple uses of a standard action to constantly negate a standard or move versus Slow's single standard to affect the enemy for several rounds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 19, 2013, 02:39:54 AM
It's what you use your Monk for. I mean, what were they going to use their Standard for, anyway?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 19, 2013, 03:27:57 AM
It stops free and swift actions though
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 19, 2013, 03:30:10 AM
It's what you use your Monk for. I mean, what were they going to use their Standard for, anyway?

But monks still have to hit and damage them first before they can use the feat!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on March 19, 2013, 04:08:34 AM
True 'nuff; still, you can probably optimize for a single really accurate attack that could even be at a range (thank you Ring the Golden Bell), and then just come up to people and practice punches near them.

They are so embarassed and ashamed to be near you that they either will try to kill you or will try to run away.

And the Monk can catch up... unless they full-up teleport away, in which case the Monk won! BWAHAHA!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 19, 2013, 04:32:46 AM
Really quick, could I get a book title and page number for the Deadly Feint / its Rokugan original?

The Pincers Hold, the Tail Strikes: Rokugan, page 53
Deadly Feint: Ultimate Feats, page 37

Edit: Oh, and congratulations to Amechra for snagging reply #666. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 19, 2013, 11:25:06 AM
Be a monk/knight, with a whip. Then they can't move very far at all. Then just move up and whack em again.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on March 19, 2013, 12:37:09 PM
Whips don't threaten areas within their reach.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 19, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
i guess thats true... what about a plain old spiked chain?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 19, 2013, 05:42:20 PM
Archeron Flurry ... feels like an Ardent + Monk w/ Tash gets
to early stages of action abuse, and uses it as a Lock-lite.
Maybe Psion or Erudite are better because of feat support.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 19, 2013, 11:32:48 PM
It's what you use your Monk for. I mean, what were they going to use their Standard for, anyway?

dealing 40+ dice of damage in a single strike?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 20, 2013, 09:43:21 AM
It's what you use your Monk for. I mean, what were they going to use their Standard for, anyway?

dealing 40+ dice of damage in a single strike?
That sounds like a Challenge to me.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on March 21, 2013, 09:56:29 PM
From the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure (Eberron setting) comes the Altar of the Dragon's Eye location.

It grants additional uses to Dragonmark bearers.
PC's that are of the dragonmarked races that do not currently have a dragonmark gain either an Aberrant Dragonmark or Least Dragonmark (player's choice) as a bonus feat.
PC's that are of the non-dragonmarked races gain the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy ability only) as a bonus feat!

Notable since this allows non-dragonmarked races legitimate access to some feats/classes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 22, 2013, 02:38:15 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 23, 2013, 04:14:48 PM
Servant of the Heavens (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/servant-of-the-heavens--2553/) gives you +1 to any roll 1/day.
Hit Dice on level up are rolls.
Suddenly this crappy feat isn't quite as crappy. It's like a non-retroactive Improved Toughness with a minor little +1 to various things floating around.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 23, 2013, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Bananaphone


" ... Suffers from Anatidaephobia ... "

hmm ... (googles) ... ahh Fun Find.

To fuel your paranoia  :tongue check this out:
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/howard-the-duck-vs-superman-prime/403998/
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 23, 2013, 10:38:35 PM
From the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure (Eberron setting) comes the Altar of the Dragon's Eye location.

It grants additional uses to Dragonmark bearers.
PC's that are of the dragonmarked races that do not currently have a dragonmark gain either an Aberrant Dragonmark or Least Dragonmark (player's choice) as a bonus feat.
PC's that are of the non-dragonmarked races gain the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy ability only) as a bonus feat!

Notable since this allows non-dragonmarked races legitimate access to some feats/classes.
I pointed this out in the handbook. I also pointed out it isn't rated for cost, but that 4k is more than fair.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 24, 2013, 02:14:30 PM
I got to watching some perpetual machines on Youtube today and it got me thinking. So I checked and sure enough, This Thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=972.0) doesn't mention the perpetual combo.

So tossing it out in case no one is aware of it. If you use Arcane Thesis (and others) to mitigate Repeat Spell's cost to +0, then by using a Rod of Absorption you can create a perpetual spell engine. It's simple, cast a Repeated Spell on your self while holding the Rod. Say 6th level, by next round the Rod gained 12 Spell levels allowing you to recast from the Rod, expending six to gain twelve. Repeat NI times through out the day as needed for a couple freebie Spells at each Encounter and infinite Spells out of combat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on March 24, 2013, 03:52:00 PM
I got to watching some perpetual machines on Youtube today and it got me thinking. So I checked and sure enough, This Thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=972.0) doesn't mention the perpetual combo.

So tossing it out in case no one is aware of it. If you use Arcane Thesis (and others) to mitigate Repeat Spell's cost to +0, then by using a Rod of Absorption you can create a perpetual spell engine. It's simple, cast a Repeated Spell on your self while holding the Rod. Say 6th level, by next round the Rod gained 12 Spell levels allowing you to recast from the Rod, expending six to gain twelve. Repeat NI times through out the day as needed for a couple freebie Spells at each Encounter and infinite Spells out of combat.

Rods of Absorption can only ever gain 50 spell levels, and can't be recharged. The combo you're thinking of is sanctum spell with repeat spell on mage's lucubration. And of course, rary's arcane conversion.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on March 24, 2013, 04:08:33 PM
Per Dragon 336 clerics who worship Kyuss can get demons through the Planar Ally line of spells that have the Favoured Spawn of Kyuss template applied to them! Even better, they can give the template to other beings through their Foul Embrace ability. Free minion boosts!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 24, 2013, 04:31:56 PM
Rods of Absorption can only ever gain 50 spell levels, and can't be recharged. The combo you're thinking of is sanctum spell with repeat spell on mage's lucubration. And of course, rary's arcane conversion.
Not really, nice combo, but I was thinking of an absorption based trick.

Google turns up Empowered Absorption. 1d4+6 per PHB's example is 7~10+50% for an average 12 points of storage. You need 9 to recast and guaranteed 10 points of storage so if you have an At-Will to recharge it, it's 3 floating Spell Levels to expend however you wish. Not as drastic as infinite 9th level spells, but effectively infinite 3rd level spells isn't so bad. Best of all Empower costs less, you can run this off two Feats.

Still works out through. Have a reminder on two ways to perpetually cast spells all day :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on March 24, 2013, 07:18:07 PM
If you use Arcane Thesis (and others) to mitigate Repeat Spell's cost to +0, then by using a Rod of Absorption you can create a perpetual spell engine. It's simple, cast a Repeated Spell on your self while holding the Rod. Say 6th level, by next round the Rod gained 12 Spell levels allowing you to recast from the Rod, expending six to gain twelve. Repeat NI times through out the day as needed for a couple freebie Spells at each Encounter and infinite Spells out of combat.
might as well tack on Spellfire Wielder while you're at it.  :joystick
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 25, 2013, 05:39:06 PM
From the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure (Eberron setting) comes the Altar of the Dragon's Eye location.

It grants additional uses to Dragonmark bearers.
PC's that are of the dragonmarked races that do not currently have a dragonmark gain either an Aberrant Dragonmark or Least Dragonmark (player's choice) as a bonus feat.
PC's that are of the non-dragonmarked races gain the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy ability only) as a bonus feat!

Notable since this allows non-dragonmarked races legitimate access to some feats/classes.

cataclysm mage allows any qualifying character of any race to have any dragonmark you want, and switch it out every so often, too.

... assuming that you can survive the fluff text.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 25, 2013, 07:24:51 PM
Q about that ... how difficult is it to find + utilize that Altar Of The Dragon's Eye ??

I ask because the Otyugh's Hole location pops up all
of the time, and this one could be somewhat as useful.


I could imagine fluff like:  this is just the way her "worshipping"
happens, and/or basic proselytizing.  Here's an evil cookie (sucker).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 25, 2013, 08:37:26 PM
Just about anything is a Greater Teleport away...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on March 26, 2013, 12:54:49 AM
From the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure (Eberron setting) comes the Altar of the Dragon's Eye location.

It grants additional uses to Dragonmark bearers.
PC's that are of the dragonmarked races that do not currently have a dragonmark gain either an Aberrant Dragonmark or Least Dragonmark (player's choice) as a bonus feat.
PC's that are of the non-dragonmarked races gain the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy ability only) as a bonus feat!

Notable since this allows non-dragonmarked races legitimate access to some feats/classes.

cataclysm mage allows any qualifying character of any race to have any dragonmark you want, and switch it out every so often, too.

... assuming that you can survive the fluff text.
Yeah, the part where the world's most powerful dragons actively want you dead suggests that no character finishes that prestige class and lives for more than a day.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 26, 2013, 01:18:35 AM
From the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure (Eberron setting) comes the Altar of the Dragon's Eye location.

It grants additional uses to Dragonmark bearers.
PC's that are of the dragonmarked races that do not currently have a dragonmark gain either an Aberrant Dragonmark or Least Dragonmark (player's choice) as a bonus feat.
PC's that are of the non-dragonmarked races gain the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy ability only) as a bonus feat!

Notable since this allows non-dragonmarked races legitimate access to some feats/classes.

cataclysm mage allows any qualifying character of any race to have any dragonmark you want, and switch it out every so often, too.

... assuming that you can survive the fluff text.
Yeah, the part where the world's most powerful dragons actively want you dead suggests that no character finishes that prestige class and lives for more than a day.

just a wee bit.

of course, they did mention sending assassins, so you may make it a few days. and i suppose that it depends on how advertised your actions have been, and whether you flaunt what you have or not.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cagemarrow on March 26, 2013, 04:50:47 PM
You just want to gain the Vecna Blooded template sometime before then, immunity to divination and knowing exactly who and where someone is trying to gain info on you from goes a long way to keeping you prepared for any assassination attempts.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on March 26, 2013, 09:07:47 PM
From the Book of Vile Darkness, there's the somewhat interesting spell imprison possessor, which would normally be pretty boring, but if you've got a fiend of possession in you, it gives you a bunch of leverage for always getting that bonus. Plus it's a cheap way to make magic jar permanent with a 5th level spell.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on March 26, 2013, 09:56:14 PM
You just want to gain the Vecna Blooded template sometime before then, immunity to divination and knowing exactly who and where someone is trying to gain info on you from goes a long way to keeping you prepared for any assassination attempts.

Vecna... in Eberron...  How?  Unless the DM has altered the Eberron cosmology, I don't think it's possible...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on March 26, 2013, 10:08:18 PM
Far realms link both dimensions together.  :)

What? Far fetched, but still possible!  :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 26, 2013, 10:30:47 PM
Doesn't the Astral Plane or Ethereal Plane link 'all' cosmologies?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 26, 2013, 10:49:19 PM
Far realms link both dimensions together.  :)

What? Far fetched, but still possible!  :P

Tangent: Xoriat is the Far Realms of Eberron. I'm thoroughly convinced that the Daelkyr are just epic-level adventurers from other realms, and that the travel through the Far Realms has turned them into what Eberron-natives perceive as the Daelkyr.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 27, 2013, 01:11:16 AM
concurrent infusions (MoE) seems to bypass the casting time and material cost of the three subsequent infusions.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on March 27, 2013, 11:56:23 AM
Tangent: Xoriat is the Far Realms of Eberron. I'm thoroughly convinced that the Daelkyr are just epic-level adventurers from other realms, and that the travel through the Far Realms has turned them into what Eberron-natives perceive as the Daelkyr.
That would be an awesome campaign to play in!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 27, 2013, 12:32:19 PM
a great picture for someone's character :-p

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bISQ_taZ4LE/Teu1ZQRsq9I/AAAAAAAACIk/bEKTI_kl_u4/s1600/HalflingBarbarian.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Arz on March 27, 2013, 02:52:20 PM
concurrent infusions (MoE) seems to bypass the casting time and material cost of the three subsequent infusions.

Nope, reread that. Has same material and xp costs. Casting this is the mark of the poorly prepared, since there are many better infusions at that level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on March 27, 2013, 05:02:58 PM
concurrent infusions (MoE) seems to bypass the casting time and material cost of the three subsequent infusions.

Nope, reread that. Has same material and xp costs. Casting this is the mark of the poorly prepared, since there are many better infusions at that level.

i see what you mean. the english could go either way. thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Agnostic Paladin on March 27, 2013, 08:14:09 PM
That means the kobold could ride a swarm, which would be... strange

Zook, you say strange, I saw awesome. Kobold druid, gliding up to the party, held aloft by his bee swarm. That's all sorts of panache.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 27, 2013, 08:19:15 PM
That means the kobold could ride a swarm, which would be... strange

Ride a swarm?

(click to show/hide)

Hopefully I haven't killed the awesomeness of riding a swarm with that.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on March 27, 2013, 08:47:13 PM
Hopefully I haven't killed the awesomeness of riding a swarm with that.

You did.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 28, 2013, 01:41:58 AM
Hopefully I haven't killed the awesomeness of riding a swarm with that.
I have a crazy idea to look into. One moment please.


EDIT: Slight build survives Alter self/Polymorph, and wildshape. so does powerful build. Might be fun find worthy.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 28, 2013, 02:03:48 AM
Hopefully I haven't killed the awesomeness of riding a swarm with that.
I have a crazy idea to look into. One moment please.


EDIT: Slight build survives Alter self/Polymorph, and wildshape. so does powerful build. Might be fun find worthy.

It's a bit iffy actually.  Keep in mind the feat Powerful Wild Shape (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/powerful-wild-shape--2226/) exists, so chances are the designers certainly didn't intend for it to carry over into alternate forms even if the rules might technically allow.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 28, 2013, 02:11:31 AM
Were-toad slight build kobold could ride a swarm of undead mosquitoes in alternate form.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 28, 2013, 02:40:15 AM
It's a bit iffy actually.  Keep in mind the feat Powerful Wild Shape (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/powerful-wild-shape--2226/) exists, so chances are the designers certainly didn't intend for it to carry over into alternate forms even if the rules might technically allow.
Alternate form (and thus wildshape), Polymorph, and alter self all let you keep the special qualities of your old form. All of them. You can polymorph away your nose and still have the scent special quality. Polymorph away your eyes and keep your low light vision.
Polymorphed/wildshaped Sahuagin still have water dependency. Polymorphing into and aquatic elf doesn't let you breath underwater. Heck, not even wildshaping into a shark will let you breath underwater.

Wow. Polymorph and its ilk are weird.

EDIT:powerful wildshape also gives you a size up for the purpose of natural attack damage while it's in use, so at least it still does something.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 28, 2013, 02:55:47 AM
Reading up on this caused me to notice something.  Mulhorandi divine minions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) can wild shape unlimited times per day as a free action.  Wild shape heals a few hit points each time you use it.  There is no limit to the number of free actions you can take each round.  So you get infinite healing on your turn for +1 LA. 

Heck, not even wildshaping into a shark will let you breath underwater.

That one they actually did cover by allowing alternate form to grant the aquatic subtype. 

Edit: Oh, hey, this is my 666th post. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 28, 2013, 02:56:08 AM
 Oops, quoted instead of modified. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on March 28, 2013, 03:04:42 AM
Quote
So you get infinite healing on your turn for +1 LA.

frenzied berserker helps with not dying from damage before your next turn, which you then heal up to full hp
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on March 28, 2013, 05:30:28 AM
Ugh... I'm dying... better... change... shapes...

*Druid rapidly and near instantly changes shape cycling through hundreds of different animals, seemingly all at once*

*As the blob of shapes, sizes and colors before your very eyes change, you feel a certain noxious feeling, like you would if you were to travel to the Far Realms and suddenly you remembered the tales told of the Pseudonatural creatures at the wizard's school*

*As soon as it had begun, and yet seemingly an eternity afterwards, the druid is back, now unscathed, and speaks*

Phew... This never gets old. What? Never seen fast shape changing before? Noob. Anyway, it's your turn now, go on, try and do sumthin', next turn if you don't kill me in one hit i'll just keep doing this.

Over.
And over.
And over.
And over and over and over and over and over.
And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overAnd over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

AGAIN!

*Wizard faints*
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 28, 2013, 09:50:56 AM
Polymorph-like effects are weird because they are a mess to begin with.
Alternate Form -> Wild Shape.
Polymorph Subschool -> Alter Self -> Polymorph -> Shapechange.

So you've got two sets of rules to play with. And they can be contradictory into them selves, like the Poly Subschool wipes all Racial & Class Features and was applied retroactively to Alter Self as an update, but the Alter Self line trumps this as Racial only and Poly notes it has priority so that was almost a giant waste of time. Alternate Form doesn't grant Supernatural Abilities and neither does Wild Shape, unless you are using Wild shape to turn into an Elemental. And so on and so on. Since some of these books are being written as another is being edited and printed anyone mentioning they are fixing X to Y screws up the already twisted rule set to an unfathomable state it's no surprise someone would end up getting confused over what Wild Shape grants or takes away.

They should have used a single rule set for both abilities and they ruined the chance to correct things with the RC too. Through I don't think they have an excuse there, just dumb monkeys turning a wrench.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 28, 2013, 11:50:53 AM
Heck, not even wildshaping into a shark will let you breath underwater.
That one they actually did cover by allowing alternate form to grant the aquatic subtype.
Might I ask where? MM and RC mention none of it.


Also, bonus fun find.
Strand of Prayer Beads, 25800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Smiting, 9000.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Healing, 16,800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads missing all but the Bead of Karma (the good one), 0 gp.
Seriously. it Costs 25800-16800(no smiting)-9000(no healing).
Remove the Bead of Karma instead of the bead of healing and get 1/day cure serious at the cost of -11000 gp.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 28, 2013, 01:04:51 PM
Also, bonus fun find.
Strand of Prayer Beads, 25800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Smiting, 9000.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Healing, 16,800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads missing all but the Bead of Karma (the good one), 0 gp.
Seriously. it Costs 25800-16800(no smiting)-9000(no healing).
Remove the Bead of Karma instead of the bead of healing and get 1/day cure serious at the cost of -11000 gp.

Standard Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) are 45800, not 25800.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 28, 2013, 02:06:26 PM
Also, bonus fun find.
Strand of Prayer Beads, 25800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Smiting, 9000.
Strand of Prayer Beads without Bead of Healing, 16,800 gp.
Strand of Prayer Beads missing all but the Bead of Karma (the good one), 0 gp.
Seriously. it Costs 25800-16800(no smiting)-9000(no healing).
Remove the Bead of Karma instead of the bead of healing and get 1/day cure serious at the cost of -11000 gp.

Standard Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) are 45800, not 25800.
My DMG says 25800 gp... So does a friends...
Errata says nothing.
SRD says the same but costs an extra 20000.
Misprinted books?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 28, 2013, 02:28:21 PM
I don't think so its misprint per say. More like a clerical error.

It's supposed to add up to 45,800gp, whom ever added it up was an idiot. MiC updates the total value correctly.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 28, 2013, 02:55:44 PM
I don't think so its misprint per say. More like a clerical error.

It's supposed to add up to 45,800gp, whom ever added it up was an idiot. MiC updates the total value correctly.

Obviously wasn't a cloistered cleric that did the math, otherwise it would have worked!  Probably a cleric of Gruumush or something.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cagemarrow on March 28, 2013, 03:37:49 PM
For Vecna Blooded in Eberron go with #1 of the Things You Need to Know (pg 8 of ECS) - "If it exists in D&D, then it has a place in Eberron." Just refluff it to be one of the Dark Six instead, I suggest the Shadow or the Traveler.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 28, 2013, 04:27:36 PM
Heck, not even wildshaping into a shark will let you breath underwater.
That one they actually did cover by allowing alternate form to grant the aquatic subtype.
Might I ask where? MM and RC mention none of it.

It's in the errata for Monster Manual.  I hadn't noticed it was left out of Rules Compendium. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 28, 2013, 04:37:28 PM
It's in the errata for Monster Manual.  I hadn't noticed it was left out of Rules Compendium.
And then RC was published after the MM errata. How does the rules priority work if errata is one of the sources, but the other could be seen as primary (Rules Compendium says it includes errata and updates the rules, so in theory it trumps any errata printed before it.)
 :twitch Damn it Wizards.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on March 28, 2013, 06:22:33 PM
Dragon #317 has an article on exotic PC races. Of note are the gruwaar (LA +0 Small Fey with claws, +2 Dex/Cha, -2 Str/Wis, +2 Hide/Move Silently/Sleight of Hand, disguise self 1/day; 20ft speed, or 30ft in light armor with both hands free) and the t'kels (LA +0 Monstrous Humanoid with claws and a swim speed, +2 Dex/-2 Int). There's also the adu'jas (LA +2 Plants with +4 bonuses to some skills) and golmoids (LA +1, ignore speed reduction from armor while still having 30ft speed), which could work with LA buyoff.

From the same issue, the Autonomous Harp is a Medium animated object (that can also grant a +2 circumstance bonus to Perform checks) with a sale price of 6,250gp; I don't think I've ever seen a price for one of those before.

The lv4 spell circle of cold is basically a half-range coldball centred on the caster... except that targets who fail their Reflex saves are also paralysed for 1 round. Icy sphere is another evocation at lv5, affecting a line out to Close range and upgrading the paralysis to 1d4 rounds.

The Lady's Gambit feat lets you inflict damage on yourself (capped at your level) to gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls for 1 round equal to half the damage dealt. :love

Finally, there's a campaign option for the entire party to start with Ancestral Weapons which grant fast healing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Scottzar on March 28, 2013, 07:11:31 PM
It's in the errata for Monster Manual.  I hadn't noticed it was left out of Rules Compendium.
And then RC was published after the MM errata. How does the rules priority work if errata is one of the sources, but the other could be seen as primary (Rules Compendium says it includes errata and updates the rules, so in theory it trumps any errata printed before it.)
 :twitch Damn it Wizards.
Monster Manual was reprinted with errata (?) very recently. It gets priority over any non-reprinted book, like the RC.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 28, 2013, 08:29:46 PM
That means the kobold could ride a swarm, which would be... strange

Zook, you say strange, I saw awesome. Kobold druid, gliding up to the party, held aloft by his bee swarm. That's all sorts of panache.

Claudia Black gets carried aloft by a swarm
just after this happens (and a grizzly touch).
(http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Pitch_Orange.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 28, 2013, 08:35:14 PM
Reading up on this caused me to notice something.  Mulhorandi divine minions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) can wild shape unlimited times per day as a free action.  Wild shape heals a few hit points each time you use it.  There is no limit to the number of free actions you can take each round.  So you get infinite healing on your turn for +1 LA. 

Edit: Oh, hey, this is my 666th post.
:evillaugh


Wait ... so a certain Sorc 1 / Divine Minion +1
doesn't bother with that whole MoMF 3 and
cantankerous trickination ?!
 :D
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 29, 2013, 09:36:15 PM
Let me guess, you have never actually read the Pun-Pun post have you?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 29, 2013, 10:20:01 PM
Wild shape heals a few hit points each time you use it.
No. Polymorph restores hp on use. Wildshape is based on alternate form, which doesn't restore hp. MM specifically points out alternate form not restoring hp as being main point of difference between it and polymorph.
Sorry, fun idea, but doesn't work.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 29, 2013, 10:59:37 PM
Wildshape is based on alternate form, which doesn't restore hp.

Yes, but wild shape overrides that with the line “Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.”  (It's in the errata.) 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on March 30, 2013, 02:41:21 AM
Wildshape is based on alternate form, which doesn't restore hp.

Yes, but wild shape overrides that with the line “Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.”  (It's in the errata.)
I need to just spend some time reading through the errata like I spend reading the books...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on March 30, 2013, 04:50:58 AM
Volley commander (Dragon 348, p93), a new commander aura (Heroes of Battle, p75) gives a volley of arrows (Heroes of Battle, p68) +1 damage per archer.  As a rough estimate, just going by area, you can fit 113 archers in the 30-foot radius of the aura.  Dealing 100+ damage to everything in a massive area every round is really impressive for a bunch of conscripts and one sergeant.  Unfortunately, it's ref negates, not ref half. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on March 30, 2013, 02:38:49 PM
On the upside, Ref negates means Improved Evasion does nothing, so you can do slightly better against familiars and high level Monks and Rogues.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 30, 2013, 02:52:14 PM
lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 30, 2013, 02:54:21 PM
Let me guess, you have never actually read the Pun-Pun post have you?
(click to show/hide)

 :huh ... you mean you'd risk Infinite Healing for
being passed out 2d4 rounds time and time again?

yes I've read the pun-pun thread ... (sigh)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 30, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
What?

Also. Per Realmshelp A&E has a +3 Huge Longspear named Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan that deals +1d8 Fire damage. It costs 18,810gp.
That's 18,000 for +3 and 300 for Masterwork. Not sure on a Huge Longspear's cost, but it's 5gp for Medium and calling it 10gp.
It means for around 500gp you can augment +1d8 damage on to your weapon. It's cheaper and better than adding Flaming.

Go for broke and ask your DM for elemental variance, then buy them all. Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and 2,000gp means +4d8 damage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 30, 2013, 04:28:48 PM
A&E is 3.0, so weapon sizes are different.  A longspear, being a 2h weapon, would technically be a Large weapon if made for a Medium creature.  If it was made to be a 2h weapon for a LArge creature, it would thus become Huge.

Since it's one size category larger, it's double the price, so 10 gp is perfectly correct.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on March 31, 2013, 12:21:43 AM
What?

Also. Per Realmshelp A&E has a +3 Huge Longspear named Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan that deals +1d8 Fire damage. It costs 18,810gp.
That's 18,000 for +3 and 300 for Masterwork. Not sure on a Huge Longspear's cost, but it's 5gp for Medium and calling it 10gp.
It means for around 500gp you can augment +1d8 damage on to your weapon. It's cheaper and better than adding Flaming.

Go for broke and ask your DM for elemental variance, then buy them all. Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and 2,000gp means +4d8 damage.

A really fun find would be the actually location it says you can steal abilities like that. I've looked high and low without avail.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 31, 2013, 01:14:52 AM
What?

Also. Per Realmshelp A&E has a +3 Huge Longspear named Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan that deals +1d8 Fire damage. It costs 18,810gp.
That's 18,000 for +3 and 300 for Masterwork. Not sure on a Huge Longspear's cost, but it's 5gp for Medium and calling it 10gp.
It means for around 500gp you can augment +1d8 damage on to your weapon. It's cheaper and better than adding Flaming.

Go for broke and ask your DM for elemental variance, then buy them all. Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and 2,000gp means +4d8 damage.

A really fun find would be the actually location it says you can steal abilities like that. I've looked high and low without avail.

I believe it's a "continuation" of some MiC rules where you can simply take the price difference between a couple stages for an item and use that in other instances.  Upgrading a +2 armor to a +3 is 5,000 gold for example.  So if you can determine the base cost of something before a specific enhancement is factored in, you can use the price difference to add it to other items.

It's not official though, but the reasoning is fairly reasonable.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on March 31, 2013, 01:18:54 AM
What?

Also. Per Realmshelp A&E has a +3 Huge Longspear named Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan that deals +1d8 Fire damage. It costs 18,810gp.
That's 18,000 for +3 and 300 for Masterwork. Not sure on a Huge Longspear's cost, but it's 5gp for Medium and calling it 10gp.
It means for around 500gp you can augment +1d8 damage on to your weapon. It's cheaper and better than adding Flaming.

Go for broke and ask your DM for elemental variance, then buy them all. Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire and 2,000gp means +4d8 damage.

A really fun find would be the actually location it says you can steal abilities like that. I've looked high and low without avail.
To my knowledge, such a thing does not exist. However, it's generally assumed that your DM will allow you to do this, because ordinarily it doesn't break the game and allows you to fit many mechanics into character archetypes other than the one specific one that wields that kind of weapon or wears that kind of armor. It's a reasonable assumption that you can reverse engineer what it ought to cost from the item's price (although there's occasionally a bit of ambiguity as to whether something's a flat bonus or an effective enhancement if the numbers line up right). In almost all cases, if there's a problem, it's that the ability exists at all, not that you can port it onto other things.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on March 31, 2013, 08:31:53 AM
Magic item pricing is a really unworthy topic for this thread IMHO. It has been stated many times that the pricing guidelines are just that: guidelines. There ARE no fixed rules for magic item pricing, barring a very few (compared to the infinite variety that would be possible to create) exceptions for much-used items.
So reverse-engineering one obscure item's unique function does nothing for you, as long as you can't come up with a statement along the lines of "this ability of the Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan can be used as a regular enchantment with a base price of 500 gp".

If that doesn't convince you, remember that many specific and unique magic weapons and armors exist, a lot of which have hard-to-justify price tags, where their abilities generally available.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 31, 2013, 10:41:51 AM
MiC flat out states you can increase and add special properties to Specific Weapons with virtually no restrictions. In order to do this it also states you minus the existing known variables and pay the difference as it says I am to do. Because of this I can flat out state the unique ability of Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan is 500gp. DMGII also presents Item Templates, Affinities include Specific items and a templeted item can usually be crafted from any material, such as adamantine. So I can have a +5 Flaming Flaming Surge Kaorti Resin Firecraft Longspear of Kath Kadan, which costs around 60k, and it is fully supported in the rules.

So while maybe ability ripping isn't exactly in the rules, but the whole point of the MiC (and DMGII?)'s upgrade section was so I didn't have to toss one Magical Item to the side for another to upgrade. In fully intended context I can upgrade a +3 Longspear to a Piercing Tongue of Kath Kadan. For 500gp. And that is exactly what I was pointing out. Since I don't care what your weapon's name is or what type it is exactly, +500gp for +1d8 damage was the point to take away.

Also, fyi merging items allowed as a recommendation, you don't hit the "guideline" area until you start discussion Spell based items. So I could sit here talking about combining a Halberd of Vaulting and Manyfanged Dagger and Empirate still wouldn't have anything on it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on April 01, 2013, 04:33:03 AM
Yeah, well, in the sidebar about five lines down from what you quoted, the MIC goes on about how you should always compare to existing effects that are commonly used. So in the case of +1d8 fire damage, I'd be comparing to the flaming enchantment? And add a little bit for the bigger damage die? 500 gold for that much extra damage, let alone for the other energy types as well, lies outside the realm of the probable. If your group would be OK with that, sure, run with it. I'm just not sure magic item pricing makes any sense at all, regardless of what kind of "rules" you prefer to use.

Halberd of Vaulting and Manyfang Dagger is a nice idea, if any DM ever would let that fly. But even just taking the Manyfang option away and applying it to anything but a dagger (for example, a big two-hander) is already kind of broken. That's why you don't just cut and paste abilities from specific/unique items. Never works out well.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Shadowhunter on April 01, 2013, 02:21:04 PM
Memory Smith, a bard PrC from Dragon Magazine 311.
It's 5 levels long, with good Fort and Will saves, full BAB, full spellcasting, normal bardic music progression.
It gives proficiency in all martial axes, hammers and picks, as well as all armor and shield proficiencies (including Tower Shields).
It also adds the following spells to your spells known:
1: Endure Elements, Magic Weapon
2: Align Weapon, Make Whole
3: Keen Edge, Magic Vestment
4: Divine Power, Greater Magic Weapon
5: Disrupting Weapon, Fabricate

Soo... no loss of spellcasting, no loss of bardic music, better BAB, a boost to the normally weakest save you have, gives some neat proficiencies and just straight out adds 10 spells to your spell list. The only thing you need to sacrifice is a few skill points over your career (5 ranks weapon/armorsmithing, 3 ranks knowledge (religion), preform 8 ranks (oh noes..), 5 ranks in UMD (Utterly useless, but what'ca gonna do :eh ) and manage with only getting 4+int each level from a smaller pool of skills.
Also, you need to venerate Moradin over any other good.


There's also Battle Howler from the same one, the prudent point there is that it grants Rage and two other things.
One is that your Inspire Courage now has a range of 60 feet and provides another +1 to the Morale bonus and that you can use Inspire Courage, Greatness and Heroics while raging. Requires you to be any chaotic, dig Gruumsh, have Power Attack and Cleave, 8 ranks in Preform and 2 ranks in K(religion). Also full spellcasting and normal music progression.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 01, 2013, 06:28:25 PM
rapid shot feat and the arrow swarm special ability feat of the targetteer (alternate fighter class from a dragon mag: p.38-9, august 2003 issue) stack with each other, if i'm reading it right.

rapid shot grants +1 ranged attack at highest bonus for a -2, arrow swarm grants +2 attacks at highest bonus for a -5; totaling +3 attacks for a -7.

take improved rapid shot to remove the -2 from rapid shot, and you have +3 attacks at highest bonus for the -5 to hit.

taking the sniper special ability feat of the targetteer allows you to sacrifice up to all but one of your attacks on a full attack action for a +1 threat range increase per attack sacrificed.

if one has a +16 base attack bonus, that's a total of 7 attacks per round (at a -5) or one attack (at a -5) with a +6 threat range. which stacks with keen or improved critical for a +7 to the threat range. and it should also stack with the various weapon master and similar prestige for further increases to threat range.



(see also here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9495.msg153513#msg153513).)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 01, 2013, 07:56:36 PM
Ghostly Tail (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/ghostly-tail--3095/) is a pretty nice 1st level spell for Sorcerers; it lasts an hour at 1st level, after all, and allows you take AoOs without actually carrying any weapons.

It feels like it is begging for Karmic Strike.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bozwevial on April 01, 2013, 09:24:01 PM
Ghostly Tail (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/ghostly-tail--3095/) is a pretty nice 1st level spell for Sorcerers; it lasts an hour at 1st level, after all, and allows you take AoOs without actually carrying any weapons.

It feels like it is begging for Karmic Strike.
Since it's not actually an AoO (and doesn't eat into them), you could stack it, too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on April 02, 2013, 10:26:00 AM
rapid shot feat and the arrow swarm special ability feat of the targetteer (alternate fighter class from a dragon mag: p.38-9, august 2003 issue) stack with each other, if i'm reading it right.

rapid shot grants +1 ranged attack at highest bonus for a -2, arrow swarm grants +2 attacks at highest bonus for a -5; totaling +3 attacks for a -7.

take improved rapid shot to remove the -2 from rapid shot, and you have +3 attacks at highest bonus for the -5 to hit.

taking the sniper special ability feat of the targetteer allows you to sacrifice up to all but one of your attacks on a full attack action for a +1 threat range increase per attack sacrificed.

if one has a +16 base attack bonus, that's a total of 7 attacks per round (at a -5) or one attack (at a -5) with a +6 threat range. which stacks with keen or improved critical for a +7 to the threat range. and it should also stack with the various weapon master and similar prestige for further increases to threat range.



(see also here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9495.msg153513#msg153513).)

Isn't that a trap? Unless you have a weapon/ability/etc. that does something massive on a successful crit, all you get out of a crit with a bow is the equivalent of another two hits. I haven't done the math, but unless you sacrifice attacks with a really low chance of hitting (those with the lowest BAB), you wouldn't come out ahead, would you?

Also, Hunter's Mercy (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/hunters-mercy--1389/).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 02, 2013, 10:49:54 AM
Yes, dropping your iteratives for crit bonuses could still leave you with 4 attacks at +3 crit range, all at your highest bonus -5.  Then just add Prismatic Burst and the like to the bow, and you're laughing.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on April 02, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
That sounds more like it! One would have to do the actual math, though.

There's a bunch of weapon enchantments that only function on a successful crit, btw. Enfeebling weapons deal a bunch of Str damage. Coup de Grace weapons force a save vs. paralysis (even on crit-immune creatures!). Etc.

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 02, 2013, 06:15:04 PM
Dragondoom is great with a large threat range. Kaorti Resin means that your bows have a x7 multiplier. Which isn't that bad.

And, I seem to remember someone noting that, by RAW, the wording of Dragondoom means that the multiplier increase is permanent. Which is silly, but that's RAW for you.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 02, 2013, 06:22:08 PM
That sounds more like it! One would have to do the actual math, though.

There's a bunch of weapon enchantments that only function on a successful crit, btw. Enfeebling weapons deal a bunch of Str damage. Coup de Grace weapons force a save vs. paralysis (even on crit-immune creatures!). Etc.

The math could be done via spreadsheet stuff as long as the formulas were correct and all.

I have a spreadsheet set up to output average weapon damage including crit chances and such, but I don't yet think I have a way to model on-crit effects beyond the normal extra weapon damage.  I'll be starting a python programming class soon though, so I might be able to pull up something out of that.

If I really wanted I suppose I could even pull out my dad's C++ books and dive right in to figure out stuff, but I'm iffy on that.  I tend to get monstrous headaches with those kinds of books, but that likely just means I need to get used to reading them.  Come to think of it I used to get headaches while reading D&D material, but now I don't... So I just convinced myself to dive right into C++.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on April 02, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
That sounds more like it! One would have to do the actual math, though.

There's a bunch of weapon enchantments that only function on a successful crit, btw. Enfeebling weapons deal a bunch of Str damage. Coup de Grace weapons force a save vs. paralysis (even on crit-immune creatures!). Etc.

The math could be done via spreadsheet stuff as long as the formulas were correct and all.

I have a spreadsheet set up to output average weapon damage including crit chances and such, but I don't yet think I have a way to model on-crit effects beyond the normal extra weapon damage.  I'll be starting a python programming class soon though, so I might be able to pull up something out of that.

If I really wanted I suppose I could even pull out my dad's C++ books and dive right in to figure out stuff, but I'm iffy on that.  I tend to get monstrous headaches with those kinds of books, but that likely just means I need to get used to reading them.  Come to think of it I used to get headaches while reading D&D material, but now I don't... So I just convinced myself to dive right into C++.

Good, learn C++, most modern languages borrow from it, and the tech field keeps blooming as the rest of the economy collapses.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 02, 2013, 07:09:32 PM
rapid shot feat and the arrow swarm special ability feat of the targetteer (alternate fighter class from a dragon mag: p.38-9, august 2003 issue) stack with each other, if i'm reading it right.

rapid shot grants +1 ranged attack at highest bonus for a -2, arrow swarm grants +2 attacks at highest bonus for a -5; totaling +3 attacks for a -7.

take improved rapid shot to remove the -2 from rapid shot, and you have +3 attacks at highest bonus for the -5 to hit.

taking the sniper special ability feat of the targetteer allows you to sacrifice up to all but one of your attacks on a full attack action for a +1 threat range increase per attack sacrificed.

if one has a +16 base attack bonus, that's a total of 7 attacks per round (at a -5) or one attack (at a -5) with a +6 threat range. which stacks with keen or improved critical for a +7 to the threat range. and it should also stack with the various weapon master and similar prestige for further increases to threat range.



(see also here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9495.msg153513#msg153513).)

Isn't that a trap? Unless you have a weapon/ability/etc. that does something massive on a successful crit, all you get out of a crit with a bow is the equivalent of another two hits. I haven't done the math, but unless you sacrifice attacks with a really low chance of hitting (those with the lowest BAB), you wouldn't come out ahead, would you?

Also, Hunter's Mercy (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/hunters-mercy--1389/).

all the extra attacks are at your highest bonus (-5), so you would only be losing the 5. plus, most bow type weapons are x3 or x4 to begin with.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on April 03, 2013, 12:42:29 AM
Dragondoom is great with a large threat range. Kaorti Resin means that your bows have a x7 multiplier. Which isn't that bad.

And, I seem to remember someone noting that, by RAW, the wording of Dragondoom means that the multiplier increase is permanent. Which is silly, but that's RAW for you.
I'm fairly sure that was in an earlier version of this thread. It was based on the fact that Dragondoom doesn't give you bonus crit multiplier while attacking Dragons, but rather attacking a Dragon causes your weapons crit range to increase (permanently). Even funnier because the Special rules note implies that it stacks with itself (because it doesn't stack with any other ability or effect that effects crit multiplier). (you could argue it doesn't stack with itself because nothing does, but then you have one side arguing the special doesn't matter in case of itself, and the other side arguing the special is specific and trumps general)
Possibly the least RAI reading ever to occur. I put it about on par with the PrC that grants immunity to (magic) and (non-magic sleep effects).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 03, 2013, 07:31:47 AM
Oh no, that's not the worst RAI reading I've ever seen. Stick around, I'm sure we'll get one worse in a month or two.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on April 03, 2013, 10:18:33 AM
Oh no, that's not the worst RAI reading I've ever seen. Stick around, I'm sure we'll get one worse in a month or two.

Not only do I agree with SorO here, I think that is incredibly optimistic for the time frame.

I've got two blue chips on 3 weeks. Any takers?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Karlton on April 03, 2013, 05:39:25 PM
Inspired by this thread, I set out to create a ninja/wu-jen, but when I checked DragMag#357 page 86, all I could find was a feat that stacked ninja and shugenja levels for ki.

Bummer.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on April 04, 2013, 04:42:22 PM
Snowsong (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030124a) is a 6th-level bard spell with a bunch of nice effects and a long-ish duration. The debuff is rather tame and the other effects are all available in other spells of lower level, but usually as single-target effects and not for as long a duration. Good for Archivists (via Divine Bard) and Chameleons who want a replacement for DMM Mass Lesser Vigor.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on April 04, 2013, 10:55:59 PM
Dragon #325, page 61 has an interesting feat.

Diversified Casting [General]
You can cast spells from one of your prohibited schools.
Prerequisites: A prohibited school.
Benefit: Choose a prohibited school. You may add up to three spells from that school to your spell list.  Note that this also allows you to use spell-completion and spell-trigger items using the spells you add to your spell list.
Special: You can gain this feat a number of times equal to the number of prohibited schools you possess.  Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different prohibited school.

There is the obvious benefit of accessing 3 spells from a prohibited school, but it seems that it would also allow you to access spells from any spell list provided it is from that school.


Seems that my conjurer can pick up Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry now quite easily.   :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 04, 2013, 11:50:26 PM
Dragon #325, page 61 has an interesting feat.

Diversified Casting [General]
You can cast spells from one of your prohibited schools.
Prerequisites: A prohibited school.
Benefit: Choose a prohibited school. You may add up to three spells from that school to your spell list.  Note that this also allows you to use spell-completion and spell-trigger items using the spells you add to your spell list.
Special: You can gain this feat a number of times equal to the number of prohibited schools you possess.  Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different prohibited school.

There is the obvious benefit of accessing 3 spells from a prohibited school, but it seems that it would also allow you to access spells from any spell list provided it is from that school.


Seems that my conjurer can pick up Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry now quite easily.   :)
fyi, don't expect any DM with access to Lost Emipres of Faerun to allow that feat, as the bolded part alone is the equivalent of taking the Spell Reprieve feat three times.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on April 05, 2013, 02:00:26 AM
I wouldn't allow this spell in any of my games. Specializing is meant to be a trade-off, and there's no trade-off if you can ban a school that only has 3 really useful spells and then get em all back with a single feat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SolEiji on April 05, 2013, 03:10:20 AM
I wouldn't allow this spell in any of my games. Specializing is meant to be a trade-off, and there's no trade-off if you can ban a school that only has 3 really useful spells and then get em all back with a single feat.

Spell?  Did you mean feat?

The trade off is the loss of a precious feat slot.  Up to you if it's "worth it" or "too good".
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Cagemarrow on April 05, 2013, 02:06:03 PM
Well after much searching I found a Bag of Holding type item that can be made in E6. The Dragonskin Bag of Grendel is from Dragon 329 pg 26 and allows a character to fill the bag with up to 1500 lbs while only weighing 8 lbs itself. It uses shrink item as the base spell so items are reduced in size and weight and not actually stored in an extra dimensional space. 18k is pretty expensive, especially with the clause that a successful dispel check on it causes the contents to return to normal size and destroy the bag but based on the guidelines for a continuous use magic item of "Shrink Item" it only costs 3 grand extra. Although the spell item version would allow you to carry much more weight with the cloth like item version since it reduces item size by 16 and weight by 4000 times. So you could carry 4000 lbs for every 1 lbs of material in the bag with the spell version.

When making your own with proper engineering I think it could be made to open and dump out the contents rather than ripping itself apart. I picture it as a canvas sheet that items are placed on then it gets folded up into a bag/backpack form with wooden buckles to hold it shut. If it gets dispelled the items would expand and cause the buckles to break before the bag itself, spilling the contents out over the ground. The buckles would have to be replaced before it could be used as a bag again, but it would allow for the bag to be repaired and used again after the encounter is finished.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on April 05, 2013, 05:38:27 PM
Dragon #325, page 61 has an interesting feat.

Diversified Casting [General]
You can cast spells from one of your prohibited schools.
Prerequisites: A prohibited school.
Benefit: Choose a prohibited school. You may add up to three spells from that school to your spell list.  Note that this also allows you to use spell-completion and spell-trigger items using the spells you add to your spell list.
Special: You can gain this feat a number of times equal to the number of prohibited schools you possess.  Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different prohibited school.

There is the obvious benefit of accessing 3 spells from a prohibited school, but it seems that it would also allow you to access spells from any spell list provided it is from that school.


Seems that my conjurer can pick up Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry now quite easily.   :)
fyi, don't expect any DM with access to Lost Emipres of Faerun to allow that feat, as the bolded part alone is the equivalent of taking the Spell Reprieve feat three times.
I would agree about not expecting a DM to grant access with LEoF available, but I disagree about taking Spell Reprieve 3 times as being equal.  Between the two feats, the wording is different.  Diversified Casting specifically says to add prohibited spells to your spell list.  Spell Reprieve does not mention adding spells to your list.  Also, if one wanted access to an entire school again they would get Spell Reprieve, Item Reprieve, and Arcane Transfiguration, which is better than Spell Reprieve x 3.

I wouldn't allow this spell in any of my games. Specializing is meant to be a trade-off, and there's no trade-off if you can ban a school that only has 3 really useful spells and then get em all back with a single feat.
The trade-off is your feat slot.  With all the spells that are available via the SC and supplements, there are definitely more than 3 useful spells in any school.  It's just a matter of what you value the most to pick.



I thought the feat notable because of the wording of adding to "your spell list".  Recaster and Wyrm Wizard can do it, but they have restrictions, or require too much investment. 
Yes, a DM can disallow it... as he can anything.  Shouldn't that go without saying?  *shrug*
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on April 05, 2013, 10:04:26 PM
I wouldn't allow this spell in any of my games. Specializing is meant to be a trade-off, and there's no trade-off if you can ban a school that only has 3 really useful spells and then get em all back with a single feat.

Spell?  Did you mean feat?

The trade off is the loss of a precious feat slot.  Up to you if it's "worth it" or "too good".

yes, i meant feat... Silly me. I think it's too good. Wizards are already T1, they don't need any extra boost, and prohibited schools are a balancing point, not meant to be sidestepped.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 05, 2013, 10:07:04 PM
How would the drow wizard specialist work w this?

does he choose a prohibited spell type?

edit: seems like Chain Spell can apply to potions. Just throw it on a permanent spell and one potion affects 1+CL targets.
To get higher spell levels in a potion, use the Magic of Faerun's Master Alchemist for up to 9th level spells. These then chain to 17-18 extra targets. A 9th level potion costs 7650gp.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on April 07, 2013, 02:49:34 AM
An embedded holy symbol (Dragon 359, p117) makes it impossible for a cleric to be without a divine focus.  It costs 100 gp for the symbol, and implanting it requires a DC 15 heal check and magically healing the resulting damage.  None of that should be a problem for a cleric. 

Combat mod, from earlier in the same article, appears to allow you to get hand crossbows built into your wrists, which should leave your hands free to reload them. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 07, 2013, 01:13:28 PM
Hey, you want to heal your allies without wasting precious actions on it?

Be a Warlock and go into Eldritch Disciple, selecting Healing Blast.  You can be a Hellfire Warlock, hey why not.  Make sure you have the Eldritch Glaive blast shape.  Now, if anyone on your team needs healing, simply declare them your enemy and have them walk through your threatened area, provoking a Healing AoO.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 07, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
So, found a few nifty magic items while I was perusing my books yesterday.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

And then there's this:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 07, 2013, 08:44:08 PM
<snip>
Unfortunately, there isn't one for Aberrant marks.[/spoiler]
<snip>

I seem to remember a Dragon magazine issue that said there were aberrant versions of all the dragonmark items...

Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on April 07, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
One spell that makes an entire class obsolete... wow...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bananaphone on April 07, 2013, 09:30:44 PM
So, found a few nifty magic items while I was perusing my books yesterday.
And then there's this:

(click to show/hide)

I've got to be missing something.  Wouldn't Uncanny Forethought be better?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 07, 2013, 09:55:03 PM
Use them all (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=474.0).

It's actually so bad Sorcerer-like (dragonspawn & TD aging) is superior to the actual Sorcerer Class.
But the product is sold Wizards of the Coast...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 07, 2013, 11:47:31 PM
So, found a few nifty magic items while I was perusing my books yesterday.
And then there's this:

(click to show/hide)

I've got to be missing something.  Wouldn't Uncanny Forethought be better?

Yeah, but this gets every spell on your list. And you can Uncanny Forethought it!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 08, 2013, 12:18:14 AM
Fun find, the Sage's identity.

Sort of like the FAQ it never sat well with me that Customer Service's answers were kicked out. Oh don't get me wrong I can understand why. Some poster in the middle of a hot debate says his 1 in 5,000 email was answered the day of being sent supports his exact view of total bullshit? Seems legit to me. Totally. But the disregard is carried over to Sage Online, an article that indisputably happened, and I've seen it referenced that because the FAQ has been answered by "the Sage" then fallacy of association dictates both are piles of skunk manure.

Well, "The Sage" as of at least the Sage Online article's starting point (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20061110a) until at least 4th Edition (since he worked on the PHB) was none other than Andy Collins. He worked on (http://web.archive.org/web/20050215003811/http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&creatorid=403) both planar books (MotP/PlH), both item books (A&E/MiC), a couple completes (CAd/CD/CW), some misc ones (Draco, MMIII, FF, FR:MoF), in fact without him who knows. We may not have had Flaws (UA), Shadowcraft Mages (RoS) or Necropolitons (LM). At the very least the guy has back ground credit for making screwed up rulebooks.

Goes to show, that nameless entity you dislike may have been the same guy you've loved all these years.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 08, 2013, 12:38:31 AM
I knew that!

Of course, I'm also over on the Fatal and Friends thread on SA, which has a lot on different developers.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on April 08, 2013, 06:27:02 PM
I've always trusted the Sage more than the FAQ/Customer Service due to the Sage being far more consistent with both himself and the rules.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 08, 2013, 09:09:19 PM
Alright, here's one:

Taunt Dragon, from Dragonmarked, is a 4th level spell that's on the Paladin and Bard lists.

Its effect? If the dragon you're targeting performs any action that isn't attacking you/moving towards you to attack you, they take a penalty to their attack rolls, skill checks, and saves according to what level of Dragonmark you have.

Least is a -5 penalty.
Lesser is a -10 penalty.
Greater/Siberys? -20.

Too bad giving other people the Dragonblooded type is so damn hard...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 08, 2013, 09:40:58 PM
The feat Rout from Dragon #304 (pg 85, requires Windup from the same page) turns all your attacks with thrown weapons weighing at least 2 lbs into bull rushes, with a max push distance of 5 feet.  So, you can be a flying dungeoncrasher throwing javelins at people and bull rushing them into the ground.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Tohron on April 08, 2013, 11:53:57 PM
Alright, here's one:

Taunt Dragon, from Dragonmarked, is a 4th level spell that's on the Paladin and Bard lists.

Its effect? If the dragon you're targeting performs any action that isn't attacking you/moving towards you to attack you, they take a penalty to their attack rolls, skill checks, and saves according to what level of Dragonmark you have.

Least is a -5 penalty.
Lesser is a -10 penalty.
Greater/Siberys? -20.

Too bad giving other people the Dragonblooded type is so damn hard...

So does that stack if different people are using it?  The thought of giving a dragon -80 to all rolls when the whole party uses it... opens up new humiliation potential.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2013, 12:53:36 AM
Or with Doomspeak for -30?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 09, 2013, 01:58:56 AM
Alright, here's one:

Taunt Dragon, from Dragonmarked, is a 4th level spell that's on the Paladin and Bard lists.

Its effect? If the dragon you're targeting performs any action that isn't attacking you/moving towards you to attack you, they take a penalty to their attack rolls, skill checks, and saves according to what level of Dragonmark you have.

Least is a -5 penalty.
Lesser is a -10 penalty.
Greater/Siberys? -20.

Too bad giving other people the Dragonblooded type is so damn hard...

So does that stack if different people are using it?  The thought of giving a dragon -80 to all rolls when the whole party uses it... opens up new humiliation potential.

Nope, only highest bonus.

What you do is then cast Antipathy (or some other effect that makes them move away from you.)

It hurts them. A lot. Because a -20 to saves is horrifying.

It would stack with Doomspeak, though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2013, 02:04:12 AM
This spell has probably been mentioned before Planar Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a)

it says you need a 'companion', but not that spell has to target said companion. You can cast it on yourself  :D
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 09, 2013, 03:58:09 AM
This spell has probably been mentioned before Planar Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a)

it says you need a 'companion', but not that spell has to target said companion. You can cast it on yourself  :D

I have a feeling some DMs would strike that down, especially if they think it's a dirty euphemism.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 09, 2013, 11:37:40 AM
It's not just a typo in target either.
Quote
If the target creature is your familiar, it gains energy resistance, fast healing, damage reduction, and additional damage for its smite attack as though its Hit Dice were equal to your character level. Otherwise, use its actual Hit Dice to determine these qualities. If the target creature becomes axiomatic, its linked minds ability applies to you (and only to you).
You really are supposed to cast it on all kinds of creatures.

Could be rather interesting to cast as a Lawful Neutral character with Ordered Chaos because
Quote
(or your alignment, if you have no patron deity). If your patron deity is good, the creature becomes celestial. If your patron deity is evil, the creature becomes fiendish. If your patron deity is lawful neutral, the creature becomes axiomatic, and if your patron deity is chaotic neutral, the creature becomes anarchic.
Those are not else if statements.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2013, 12:13:32 PM
Yeah, *grins* and doesn't the Hellbred count towards spells (AFB)

so you could get all 4? :P


what happen when a TN cleric of a TN god casts this on a TN creature? I assume they get nothing
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 09, 2013, 12:20:40 PM
Yeah, *grins* and doesn't the Hellbred count towards spells (AFB)

Hellbred allows you to cast spells with the Evil descriptor without being evil yourself, it does not allow you to treat yourself as Evil the way Ordered Chaos allows you to treat yourself as Chaotic.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Damn ;)

what if you change alignment afterwards, then you could have all 4
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on April 09, 2013, 01:31:40 PM
I never noticed it before, but if you want to be a thrower without Quick Draw, shuriken are drawn as ammunition and thus can be drawn as a free action.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on April 09, 2013, 01:45:20 PM
If you don't like shuriken, strap your real ammunition to shuriken. Profit?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 09, 2013, 02:06:18 PM
Psionic powers "Anchor plane" and "Intensify manifest zone, Psionic" allow you to pick one trait of the plane from which you are connecting the anchor to on the prime material and then intensify it. only works on the prime.

flowing time, anyone?



as a side note, the psionic power 'anchor plane' is the only way in the entire game that i'm aware of that allows you to pick and choose a planar trait to stick somewhere else. from faiths of eberron, btw.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 09, 2013, 02:48:42 PM
No spell equivalent?  That's sad.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 09, 2013, 04:04:16 PM
Sort of yes. Planar Bubble (http://dndtools.eu/spells/planar-handbook--79/planar-bubble--2140/) calls forth the Planar effects of target creature's home. The effect is centered on the creature making it mobile but it's effect has a duration (10mins/cl). It also comes into play two levels sooner.

Animate a Spork build on Mechanis. Anywhere the Spork goes (material, fire, the bathroom) has a Fast Time trait.
Single handled replaces the entire Planar Shepherd Class and honestly I'd prefer it over Anchor Plane. Because the zone moves with your pocketed silverware rather than staying in one spot. So DDoor'ing out of a Grapple won't grant someone else ten turns to your one, but ensure that you have it and they don't.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TravelLog on April 09, 2013, 08:10:41 PM
The Mosslord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040828a)

In particular:
Quote
Mossy Transformation (Su): A nonplant, living creature grappled by a mosslord must make a successful DC 29 Fortitude saving throw each round or suffer 1d6 points of Dexterity drain; the victim must make a separate saving throw for each tentacle currently grappling it. A victim drained to 0 Dexterity collapses inward on itself, turning into an inert heap of dark green moss. Over the course of the next 1d4 rounds, the victim's mossy carcass swells and transforms into a shambling mound. The shambling mound is free-willed, yet regards the mosslord that created it as an ally and does what it can to serve its creator. A victim transformed in this manner is not dead, but it retains no memories, abilities, or skills from its past life. A wish or miracle can restore the victim to its prior form (restoring all drained Dexterity in the process). A break enchantment against DC 30 can also revert the victim to its true form (but its Dexterity score remains at 0 until other magic restores it). The saving throw DC is Constitution-based.

Mental Reflection (Su): A mosslord is a plant, and therefore it is immune to mind-affecting attacks. Worse, its powerful mind can usurp control over mind-affecting attacks that are initiated within the range of its telepathy (a 100-foot radius), no matter where they are aimed. Any creature that uses a mind-affecting attack while in this area has a 50% chance that the attack is reflected back upon him, as if the mosslord itself used the attack against him. If an attack is reflected, the original target of the attack is not affected by the attack. A mosslord always reflects mind-affecting attacks that target it specifically. This power has no effect on the brainlance power of other mosslords. This power also doesn't work against mind-affecting attacks delivered by touch or against effect and area mind-affecting attacks.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 09, 2013, 08:17:10 PM
Do Planar Shepherds get access to Plant Wildshape?

Because that is crazy nice.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 09, 2013, 09:22:55 PM
Sort of yes. Planar Bubble (http://dndtools.eu/spells/planar-handbook--79/planar-bubble--2140/) calls forth the Planar effects of target creature's home. The effect is centered on the creature making it mobile but it's effect has a duration (10mins/cl). It also comes into play two levels sooner.

Animate a Spork build on Mechanis. Anywhere the Spork goes (material, fire, the bathroom) has a Fast Time trait.
Single handled replaces the entire Planar Shepherd Class and honestly I'd prefer it over Anchor Plane. Because the zone moves with your pocketed silverware rather than staying in one spot. So DDoor'ing out of a Grapple won't grant someone else ten turns to your one, but ensure that you have it and they don't.

that is quite useful for personal actions, but i find that the anchor plane can also be made mobile fairly easily, plus it is useful for crafting purposes, unlike planar bubble. though i imagine with the lower level of spell one might manage persisting which would also solve that issue.

if one places the anchor in a stronghold, and makes the stronghold mobile, you can take your planar trait along with you anywhere. plant a tree in that space, acorn of far travel it, the usual sanctum tricks, and you can benefit personally and still craft at a accelerated rate. so long as the stronghold remains somewhere on the prime.... then... profit.


my preferred stronghold is a folding boat. it counts as a pinnace (stormwrack) and is the equivalent of 1 "stronghold space". the stronghold builders guidebook is 3.0, but if the anchor is incorporated into the structure of the boat in a permanent, non-removable fashion, it will only cost PL*ML*500 gp, per the architecture crafting rules given therein. (which might qualify for an interesting find, all in itself.) plus it can fold down to a rowboat, or a box and you can walk off with it, or toss it in a bag of holding or portable hole when you want to shut down the fast time trait. ^^

hmmmm, come to think of it, if the area of affect of the anchor plane is greater than the volume of the boat... what would the end result travel rate be? if the entire boat is enclosed in a mobile fast time trait, then would it travel that much the faster?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on April 09, 2013, 11:04:42 PM
Pity you don't get to choose whether it gets reflected, but that just means you don't have Telepath sidekicks.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Scottzar on April 10, 2013, 12:29:32 AM
Acorn of Far Travel has always been and always will be the superior cross-plane trait method. It means only you get the benefits, so no-one can try and steal your amazing power.


Also from that mosslord:
Quote
Once a round, a mosslord can emit a powerful lance of focused psionic energy as a free action. It can target any creature with an Intelligence within 60 feet with this brainlance. The creature targeted must make a successful DC 24 Will saving throw or be stunned for 1d4 rounds and take 1d6 points of Intelligence damage. A successful Will save indicates that the target is dazed for 1 round, after which it can act normally; it is also immune to that particular mosslord's brainlance power for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
That's pretty damn good, I must say.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: brujon on April 10, 2013, 01:42:16 AM
Acorn of Far Travel has always been and always will be the superior cross-plane trait method. It means only you get the benefits, so no-one can try and steal your amazing power.


Also from that mosslord:
Quote
Once a round, a mosslord can emit a powerful lance of focused psionic energy as a free action. It can target any creature with an Intelligence within 60 feet with this brainlance. The creature targeted must make a successful DC 24 Will saving throw or be stunned for 1d4 rounds and take 1d6 points of Intelligence damage. A successful Will save indicates that the target is dazed for 1 round, after which it can act normally; it is also immune to that particular mosslord's brainlance power for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
That's pretty damn good, I must say.

Once per day "You don't get to act next turn" is pretty good, yeah. Especially as a free action. Are there any really cool abilities that only trigger off of Daze? :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 10, 2013, 02:53:08 AM
The main one can think of is.... Beat the crap out of them, repeat ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 10, 2013, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: nijineko link=topic=418.msg155515#msg155515 date=136555697501.
1. plant a tree in that space, acorn of far travel it, the usual sanctum tricks, and you can benefit personally and still craft at a accelerated rate. so long as the stronghold remains somewhere on the prime.... then... profit.

2. hmmmm, come to think of it, if the area of affect of the anchor plane is greater than the volume of the boat... what would the end result travel rate be? if the entire boat is enclosed in a mobile fast time trait, then would it travel that much the faster?
1. So you used a 7th level Power to create a 5ft area, a 5th to enlarge it to 4th, retrained Psion out for Wizard, plant a tree, take some Feats, and god knows what else to mimic the effect of a 7th level Spell cast on some robot you stole. I get you're trying to validate it, and it is useful, I just think you're trying a little too hard now.

2. Travel rate would be the same but take ten times longer.
Unlike a car or spaceship propelled by it's own energies. A sailing ship is dependent on wind. While the wind crossing the time boundary would accelerate 10 times faster compared to the wind on the outside, it's still technically moving at say 20mph on both sides and hits the sails accordingly. And since the boat speed remains the same but the passengers experience time faster to them the trip takes ten times longer.

You'll need something like a Cloud Kneel (A&E I think) to propel the ship along by giving it a fly speed or just get a bunch of zombie slaves to row it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 12:57:26 PM
The poster Phelix-mu on Gitp pointed out something very interesting in the DnD rules that I hadn't noticed before:

Quote
For purposes of spells and other special effects, all slimes, molds, and fungi are treated as plants.
(DMG page 76)

Can we abuse this?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 12:57:46 PM
The poster Phelix-Mu on Gitp pointed out something very interesting in the DnD rules that I hadn't noticed before:

Quote
For purposes of spells and other special effects, all slimes, molds, and fungi are treated as plants.
(DMG page 76)

Can we abuse this?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 12:58:17 PM
The poster Phelix-Mu on Gitp pointed out something very interesting in the DnD rules that I hadn't noticed before:

Quote
For purposes of spells and other special effects, all slimes, molds, and fungi are treated as plants.
(DMG page 76)

Can we abuse this?

EDIT: Oops  :blush
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on April 11, 2013, 02:17:12 PM
Rebuke plants would let you get a small army of them.  And they'd be all but impossible to wrest from your control, being mindless.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on April 11, 2013, 02:44:44 PM
Could a druid wild shape into a slime or mold then?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on April 11, 2013, 03:08:39 PM
Provided it has hit dice. They may have the proper type, but most of the rules don't work if they aren't also made creatures. Remember, no hit dice != 0 hit dice. Just like no Con score != 0 Con.

However, you can cast spells like Entangle or anything else that works on plant objects to some pretty hilarious effect.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 11, 2013, 03:16:34 PM
Rebuke plants would let you get a small army of them.  And they'd be all but impossible to wrest from your control, being mindless.
Hmmm.... could you use that on Green Slime?  It doesn't have HD...  It would be nasty!

Quote
Plant Domain
Granted Powers
Rebuke or command plant creatures as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. ...
I think that right there would disallow it...

The interesting text in question:
Quote
... While some plants and fungi are monsters and other slime, mold, and fungus is just normal, innocuous stuff, a few varieties are dangerous dungeon encounters. For purposes of spells and other special effects, all slimes, molds, and fungi are treated as plants. ...
So, they are just treated like normal plants, not plant creatures.  You could, for example, exclude them from damage with a Firestorm spell.  Since you can't use Rebuke Plants to control a normal tree, it appears you can't Rebuke green slime either, because it is just treated as a plant, not a plant creature.


Edit:  Oooooo.... entangling green slime... that's just NASTY!

What would happen if a Druid cast the Slime Wave spell (creating patches of Green Slime), then cast Entangle?  Oh, this is just dirty!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TiaC on April 11, 2013, 06:08:18 PM
Awaken anyone?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 11, 2013, 06:17:43 PM
My kitty avatar says: Yes ?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 11, 2013, 06:33:21 PM
Awaken anyone?

Potion of Chain Awaken ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Doesn't work unfortunately. Awaken specifies animal or tree touched.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 11, 2013, 07:43:19 PM
Mushrooms are fungal trees :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on April 11, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
Mushrooms are fungal trees :P
I thought that was Broccoli :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 11, 2013, 08:21:59 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 11, 2013, 08:41:59 PM
For a second I thought Plant Growth was going to allow awesome things with green slime and yellow mold, but alas, it specifies "normal vegetation," not plants.

Quote
Overgrowth
This effect causes normal vegetation (grasses, briars, bushes, creepers, thistles, trees, vines) ... to become thick and overgrown.

Hell, Antiplant Shell doesn't even do anything, due to its wording:
Quote
The antiplant shell spell creates an invisible, mobile barrier that keeps all creatures within the shell protected from attacks by plant creatures or animated plants.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 09:17:33 PM
Quote
Animate Plants
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 199)

Transmutation
Level: Druid 7, Plant 7,
Components: V,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One Large plant per three caster levels or all plants within range; see text
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You imbue inanimate plants with mobility and a semblance of life. Each animated plant then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate as though it were an animated object of the appropriate size category. You may animate one Large or smaller plant (such as a tree), or an equivalent number of larger plants, per three caster levels. A Huge plant counts as two Large or smaller plants, a Gargantuan plant as four, and a Colossal plant as eight. You can change the designated target or targets as a move action, as if directing an active spell.

Use the statistics for animated objects found in the Monster Manual, except that plants smaller than Large don't have hardness unless the DM rules otherwise for a given case.

Animate plants cannot affect plant creatures (such as treants), nor does it affect nonliving vegetable material (such as a cotton tunic or hempen rope).

Entangle: Alternatively, you may imbue all plants within range with a degree of mobility, which allows them to entwine around creatures in the area. This usage of the spell duplicates the effect of an entangle spell. Spell resistance does not keep creatures from being entangled. This effect lasts 1 hour per caster level.

Not sure how this would work with green slime...

Oh and the Slime, Thirst, and Ooze domains all give you the ability to rebuke oozes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 11, 2013, 11:42:11 PM
Seems like it's work... It mentions 'plants' vs 'plant creatures'. So animate away

get the one that rapidly expands with energy damage
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 11, 2013, 11:53:26 PM
Seems like it's work... It mentions 'plants' vs 'plant creatures'. So animate away

get the one that rapidly expands with energy damage

The spell says the plant becomes an animated object of the appropriate size category. Things like green slime and brown mold don't have size categories though... :???
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 12, 2013, 12:00:57 AM
Sure they do.  A patch of green slime is listed as 5', so therefore it's medium size.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 14, 2013, 04:57:55 PM
If you ever find yourself trapped in the body of a Shrieker, get yourself some Solid Fog, as it will allow you to move at a speed of 5 feet.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 14, 2013, 04:59:48 PM
Sure they do.  A patch of green slime is listed as 5', so therefore it's medium size.

This is certainly a reasonable assumption but is it mentioned in the rules anywhere?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 14, 2013, 05:26:43 PM
Sure they do.  A patch of green slime is listed as 5', so therefore it's medium size.

This is certainly a reasonable assumption but is it mentioned in the rules anywhere?

DMG pg 76, first sentence of the second paragraph under Green Slime. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 14, 2013, 09:26:34 PM
Sure they do.  A patch of green slime is listed as 5', so therefore it's medium size.

This is certainly a reasonable assumption but is it mentioned in the rules anywhere?

DMG pg 76, first sentence of the second paragraph under Green Slime.

I mean that it being 5' means it's medium in size. As far as I can tell, by RAW it doesn't have a size.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 14, 2013, 09:33:30 PM
MM pg 314, the table's Dimension column shows what category a creature falls in, based on its longest measurement.  4'-8' is medium.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 14, 2013, 10:17:25 PM
MM pg 314, the table's Dimension column shows what category a creature falls in, based on its longest measurement.  4'-8' is medium.

To me it seems like the other way around actually. It's showing what attributes apply to each size category (see the last two sentences of the "size" paragraph).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 14, 2013, 10:40:22 PM
Well since its animating as an animated object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm) you have to use the size table as Kethrian suggested, because (at least in SRD) there's no mention of what is one's size category.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on April 15, 2013, 08:59:22 AM
Anchoring Blow (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Anchoring_Blow) and Renowned Courtesan (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Renowned_Courtesan) are interesting feats. You can still deliver Anchoring Blow through martial strikes at least.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 16, 2013, 07:24:45 PM
If you ever find yourself trapped in the body of a Shrieker, get yourself some Solid Fog, as it will allow you to move at a speed of 5 feet.

This one time, at band camp, I censored ...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on April 18, 2013, 05:43:54 PM
Psiologist from Dark Sun. Just a really solid Psion PrC that actually doesn't drop any caster levels.

Dark Sun gets ignored a lot, save for some discussion on Shadow Templar

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on April 18, 2013, 07:44:46 PM
Look at fusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fusion.htm). Now back to me. Now look at when two become one (http://dndtools.eu/spells/oriental-adventures--96/when-two-become-one--2096/). Now back to me.

I'm on a horse.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on April 18, 2013, 08:04:25 PM
What if you were a horse? A psionic horse who also knew fission?

EDIT: So that turns out to be pretty boring since only things you divide with fission are added, and everything else is higher-of or not combined at all. If you could finagle a permanent duration and some retraining, though...

You may also need to know compression to ride yourself, what with the size rules for mounts.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 18, 2013, 11:28:42 PM
What if you were a horse? A psionic horse who also knew fission?

EDIT: So that turns out to be pretty boring since only things you divide with fission are added, and everything else is higher-of or not combined at all. If you could finagle a permanent duration and some retraining, though...

You may also need to know compression to ride yourself, what with the size rules for mounts.

with a maximized empowered awaken on the horse before it took psion levels. ^^
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 19, 2013, 12:14:57 AM
Why not Sudden Maximize and Sudden Empower? The awaken would stay at a level 5 slot, and you only need them once.

Spell Thematics could be interesting, your animal body, when awakened, could look like a demon or human or even something crazy, like lightning. But 'underneath' would be normal
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 19, 2013, 10:52:18 PM
Sorcerers can cast from the Wu Jen spell list!

check out pg30 of the Oriental Adventures


yeah yeah double post, whatever :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on April 20, 2013, 08:52:49 AM
Sorcerers can cast from the Wu Jen spell list!

check out pg30 of the Oriental Adventures


yeah yeah double post, whatever :P

Can you be a bit more specific... Im looking at page 30, and i am not seeing it. then again i am a bit tired.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: kitep on April 20, 2013, 10:10:52 AM
It's actually the second last paragraph under the sorcerer section on page 30 (right before the Wu Jen section)

Quote
Game Rule Information: As described in the Player's
Handbook . Sorcerers can use either the wizard/sorcerer spell list
from the Player's Handbook or the wu jen spell list in Chapter 7.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: snakeman830 on April 20, 2013, 10:23:27 AM
That is actually a really nice find.  Too bad it's an either/or, but still a great find.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Bauglir on April 20, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
Hmmm... How would retraining interact with that? Would you have to change your spells known if you retrain which spell list you use?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 20, 2013, 02:17:37 PM
@snakeman.... Yeah, if only


build a sorcerer with the Wu Jen list, and surprise everyone with the weird spells.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 20, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
Hmm, even more access.

True Dragons rejoice.
They get Sorcerer/Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric (if good aligned), Bard (via prestige), Druid (via archtype), and now Wu Jen (via oa).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 20, 2013, 04:08:33 PM
Look at fusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fusion.htm). Now back to me. Now look at when two become one (http://dndtools.eu/spells/oriental-adventures--96/when-two-become-one--2096/). Now back to me.

I'm on a horse.
What if you were a horse? A psionic horse who also knew fission?

EDIT: So that turns out to be pretty boring since only things you divide with fission are added, and everything else is higher-of or not combined at all. If you could finagle a permanent duration and some retraining, though...

You may also need to know compression to ride yourself, what with the size rules for mounts.

with a maximized empowered awaken on the horse before it took psion levels. ^^

What kind of ~hacked Supermount can also get a
Shugenja 3 (Water) spell and an Egoist 8 power ?!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Empirate on April 20, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Not so useful, but a really "fun" find nonetheless:

The Shadow Asp from Fiend Folio has an interesting Create Spawn ability. The text says any creature slain by the Shadow Asp's poison rises as an uncontrolled Shadow bound to the location some time later. The Shadow Asp's poison though? Does Str damage... which can't kill anything.

I think it'd be fun to collate all the monsters that don't work the way they were intended in a different thread (and I'll probably start such a thread at some point, once I find a few more). Just throwing that out there.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on April 21, 2013, 12:06:04 AM
I just read the variant curses from Dragon 348. 

You can cast bestow curse to make a target appear to be a selected alignment for all divinations.  They seem to have meant it for undermining an enemy, but it seems much more promising to use on yourself and allies for subterfuge.  As a curse, it's permanent and can't be dispelled, handy. 

You can cast bestow curse to make a target infect anyone he touches with either blinding sickness or cackle fever, and he gains immunity to the selected disease.  A sociopath could cast this on himself and have a blast.  Is there any way around the incubation period so this could be useful in combat? 

You can cast greater bestow curse to remove one of the target's class features.  It specifically lists “spellcasting” as an example of what you can strip, which is a nice offensive option.  But, in keeping with the theme I've got going, you could cast it on a friendly wilder to remove his psychic enervation class feature. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 21, 2013, 11:43:32 AM
Fighter's bonus feats?
soulmelds?

 :plotting


edit: out for #321 is the Archdragon. For +4 LA you can get a variety of things.

you gain 3 extra domains if you already have 1 and any innate casting.

you get a 20ft aura and breath weapon changes, based on alignment.

chaotic gets a non-chaotic damaging for 1d6, plus all attacks within the aura, besides yours, take a miss chance (20% for melee, 50% for ranged)
your breath weapon has a glitterdust effect added to whatever old one (will negates)

evil gets an aura that deals 1 Con and Wis/round to non-evils (fort negates) and -4 spot/search to everyone else
your breath also delivers demon fever disease automatically to damaged creatures.

good aura heals good and damages evil and everyone else takes -1 attack/damage
breath also  disintegrates undead (Fort negates)

law gets a non-law Doom and all other energy attacks in the aura deal min damage
your breath is antimagic field for 1d4 rounds to anyone damaged by the breath with no extra save!!


I think law is the best followed by evil
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Childe on April 21, 2013, 02:07:19 PM
It's already been mentioned for other reasons, but let me reintroduce

Corrupt Summoning [Vile] (Dragon 347)

Why?

Contrast these portions: "Each creature you conjure ... creatures that are not already evil ..."

You'll notice that second group isn't only creatures you conjure that (also) are not already evil. As a result, taking this feat causes every creature to become evil. Taking this feat causes Paladins to lose class features; deities all become Outsiders with the (Evil) subtype, for what that's worth. Oddly, because both Clerics and their deities change alignments, Clerics remain within one step of their deities and thus do not lose features as a result, except they will be unable to cast Good spells. Certain Incarnates lose features, as do certain Soulborn. Any previously good-aligned person who thought it was smart to carry a Holy weapon suffers 1 negative level until they realize what happened and throw away their weapon (or if they have another way to ignore negative levels).

Entire Prestige Classes are negated, as are many feats. Really, it's just a fun time for everyone.

EDIT: I've been advised people may think I'm taking this seriously. It's clearly absurd and silly. For instance, this destroys entire cosmologies and settings and can be taken at level 2 (3 practically, perhaps 1 via cheese). I'm not dense enough to think that's in any way 1) intended or 2) reasonable. But I will stand by my case that it's the RAW. Thank you, killjoys.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 21, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that isn't actually a valid reading of the feat's wording in context. After all, it establishes what group of creatures it is talking about at the beginning of the feat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Childe on April 21, 2013, 02:32:16 PM
They are separate independent clauses, and it does not use a demonstrative pronoun linking it to the first clause; nor is there any other reference besides "creatures that are not already evil" in that second clause. (It obviously also doesn't use a relative pronouns since it's a new independent clause.)

It's blatantly against the RAI, but I'm not squinting at the RAW to get it. It's a silly grammatical error that results in a ridiculous effect.

EDIT: I've been advised people may think I'm taking this seriously. It's clearly absurd and silly. For instance, this destroys entire cosmologies and settings and can be taken at level 2 (3 practically, perhaps 1 via cheese). I'm not dense enough to think that's in any way 1) intended or 2) reasonable. But I will stand by my case that it's the RAW.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on April 21, 2013, 03:03:55 PM
   :twitch  I have an urge to Bestow Greater Curse a Barbarian into literacy.   Read it and weep, foul heathen!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 21, 2013, 03:04:19 PM
Its a vile feat too... So you have to be evil to begin with

bestow curse a forsaker's inability to use magic
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 21, 2013, 03:59:37 PM
I just read the variant curses from Dragon 348. 

You can cast greater bestow curse to remove one of the target's class features. 
... you could cast it on a friendly wilder to remove his psychic enervation class feature.

Very nice ... Bard 6*16*10 = 960 gp spellcasting service.
Easily affordable at level 4 ; now just have to find a Bard 16+.
Cleric 7*13*10 = 910 gp and more likely available.
Wilder takes Mercantile feat for doing this at level 3.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on April 21, 2013, 04:30:00 PM
You can still deliver Anchoring Blow through martial strikes at least.
"An attack made with this feat cannot also be enhanced with any other special unarmed attack feat or class feature"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PsyBomb on April 21, 2013, 10:45:53 PM
Not so useful, but a really "fun" find nonetheless:

The Shadow Asp from Fiend Folio has an interesting Create Spawn ability. The text says any creature slain by the Shadow Asp's poison rises as an uncontrolled Shadow bound to the location some time later. The Shadow Asp's poison though? Does Str damage... which can't kill anything.

Any ability damage to a score already at 0 goes to Con.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on April 21, 2013, 10:49:51 PM
Not so useful, but a really "fun" find nonetheless:

The Shadow Asp from Fiend Folio has an interesting Create Spawn ability. The text says any creature slain by the Shadow Asp's poison rises as an uncontrolled Shadow bound to the location some time later. The Shadow Asp's poison though? Does Str damage... which can't kill anything.

Any ability damage to a score already at 0 goes to Con.

Can you quote the location in the rules where this is stated?  I can't find any corroborating evidence.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: jojolagger on April 22, 2013, 03:12:41 AM
Corrupt Summoning [Vile] (Dragon 347)

 :huh  :devil
You sir, have made my day. Less than three weeks for an even less RAI reading than dragondoom stacking.

Any ability damage to a score already at 0 goes to Con.
Now that would be a fun find.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: DavidWL on April 22, 2013, 03:30:52 AM
Things I rarely see mentioned:

Undead Battery   
Age of Mortals   
p210   
Sorcery or Mysticism;  HD+Casting stat Metamagic Adjustment saved.  Use up to Casting Stat at once

Alternate Form
Dragon's of Eberron
p15
pick: Legendary Ape, Legendary Eagle, Legendary Wolf, etc.  Dragonwrought Loredrake Kobold at 3rd

Yak Folk
MMII
p200
5/+2
possess humanoid or giant creature and gain all abilities but spell and supernatural, Use staff at will

Keeper
Fiend Folio
p111
4/+3
Outsider type, as if Construct w/ Constitution, blindsight 200'

Kender Night Stalker
Dragonlance - Age of Mortals
2 Ghost Cohorts w/ Character Level - 3 HD and +2 HD Generic Undead

Best,
David
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Childe on April 22, 2013, 07:04:42 PM
Corrupt Summoning [Vile] (Dragon 347)

 :huh  :devil
You sir, have made my day. Less than three weeks for an even less RAI reading than dragondoom stacking.

Three weeks? It's been two years (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7173.msg396927#msg396927).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 22, 2013, 07:57:59 PM
I brought it up recently, though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kasz on April 23, 2013, 06:18:13 AM


Any ability damage to a score already at 0 goes to Con.
Now that would be a fun find.

My google-fu is rusty but... in this unofficial source it is like this. Now... to see if this is a reprint of some official 3.5 material...
Quote
Any additional ability score damage reduces one's constitution score. If the constitution drops to 0 or lower, she immediately dies.
Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hnI9f1u3gqcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false - page 20

Everything else I find just states: An ability score cannot be reduced below 0, but doesn't say what happens instead. These two things don't conflict... but neither implies the other and the damage being redirected to con is not official 3.5 material... Solid houserule though.

Ability damage being redirected to con is implied in creatures like Shadow Asps or Allips... otherwise these creatures could only ever knock you out and thus they'll be unable to use abilities like spawn...even though they have them.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: wotmaniac on April 23, 2013, 06:48:02 AM
Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hnI9f1u3gqcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false - page 20
from a simple cursory skim through, it seem to be a solid product.  Besides the fact that I really like the artwork, the technical writing seems quite a bit better than WotC (a lot of the rules retread that I read was much more clear and concise than the original).  Also, I like the layout and design.

Looks like I may be looking for some coin (http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=2345).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 23, 2013, 11:47:15 AM

Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hnI9f1u3gqcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false - page 20
Holy Shit.  I've played with that guy (John Lopez).  He was cool.  The game nights were just too conflicting with my schedule (and went 'til midnight or 1 on work nights...), and they basically run a completely homebrewed version of d20 D&D.

You're a druid?  Okay, prepare all your spells, filling all your slots.  Don't double up on a spell.  Your prepared spells are effectively your spells known for today, and you can cast the same number of spell slots as you would normally have.  Your first level spells are Entangle, Cure Light Wounds, and Shillelagh.  You can cast each once, or Entangle three times, or CLW twice and Shillelagh once.

Basically everyone casts like a  Spirit Shaman, but your number of spells retrieved and your number of spell slots per day were the same.

Sorcerers were just like 3.5 D&D sorcerers, but they also got an Eldritch Blast ability, and over the levels some ability to alter it (deal acid damage, etc).  They might have also been a d6 HD.

All the druid class abilities (wildshape and everything else) was ala carte, and I was like a 5th level druid who already had the ability to wildshape into a huge elemental.  It was all confusing, because they'd also worked up that all monsters were built like classed characters, but I didn't have a copy of those to build my wildshapes off of.  That was the only real failing I saw in the way they played.  It just wasn't complete enough on that one front.

It was different, but the same.  Nothing against it aside from not being able to use the 3.5 PrC's to try something else I've wanted to play for a long time (thus why I defaulted to druid).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on April 23, 2013, 04:36:25 PM

Source: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hnI9f1u3gqcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false - page 20
Holy Shit.  I've played with that guy (John Lopez).  He was cool.  The game nights were just too conflicting with my schedule (and went 'til midnight or 1 on work nights...), and they basically run a completely homebrewed version of d20 D&D.

You're a druid?  Okay, prepare all your spells, filling all your slots.  Don't double up on a spell.  Your prepared spells are effectively your spells known for today, and you can cast the same number of spell slots as you would normally have.  Your first level spells are Entangle, Cure Light Wounds, and Shillelagh.  You can cast each once, or Entangle three times, or CLW twice and Shillelagh once.

Basically everyone casts like a  Spirit Shaman, but your number of spells retrieved and your number of spell slots per day were the same.

Sorcerers were just like 3.5 D&D sorcerers, but they also got an Eldritch Blast ability, and over the levels some ability to alter it (deal acid damage, etc).  They might have also been a d6 HD.

All the druid class abilities (wildshape and everything else) was ala carte, and I was like a 5th level druid who already had the ability to wildshape into a huge elemental.  It was all confusing, because they'd also worked up that all monsters were built like classed characters, but I didn't have a copy of those to build my wildshapes off of.  That was the only real failing I saw in the way they played.  It just wasn't complete enough on that one front.

It was different, but the same.  Nothing against it aside from not being able to use the 3.5 PrC's to try something else I've wanted to play for a long time (thus why I defaulted to druid).

Sounds like a lot of the stuff they're trying to implement in D&D Next.  Or at least, D&D Next as it appeared 3 playtest packets ago.  I kind of stopped paying attention.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 25, 2013, 07:44:08 PM
Yak Folk
MMII
p200
5/+2
possess humanoid or giant creature and gain all abilities but spell and supernatural, Use staff at will

Yak Folk are rather juicy, also have a weird Genie summoning.
You know if I say something's weird, it's weird weird.
 :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 25, 2013, 08:04:27 PM
Played one one time... Was fun
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on April 26, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Yak folk make good cohorts as they can summon a genie and command him to spam wishes for the rest of the party.  Everyone basically gets +3 inherent bonus to all of their stats, if they're humanoid.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 26, 2013, 02:01:44 PM
Yak folk make good cohorts as they can summon a genie and command him to spam wishes for the rest of the party.  Everyone basically gets +3 inherent bonus to all of their stats, if they're humanoid.

you seem to be under a misapprehension. they cannot summon a genie that can grant wishes.

if you look under the summon genie entry, you will find that they are limited to summoning janni specifically, which cannot grant wishes.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 26, 2013, 02:08:30 PM
Yak folk make good cohorts as they can summon a genie and command him to spam wishes for the rest of the party.  Everyone basically gets +3 inherent bonus to all of their stats, if they're humanoid.
The ability only allows them to summon an evil Janni.

Quote
Spell-Like Abilities

3/day—invisibility (self only), speak with animals. Caster level 12th. Once per day a janni can create food and water (caster level 7th) and can use ethereal jaunt (caster level 12th) for 1 hour. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Nowhere do Janni get the ability to grant wishes.

Edit: Niji'd  :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 26, 2013, 02:16:52 PM
Edit: Niji'd  :p

niyau. (http://www.elfwood.com/members/gfx/nijineko.gif?4475)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Ithamar on April 26, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
Yak folk make good cohorts as they can summon a genie and command him to spam wishes for the rest of the party.  Everyone basically gets +3 inherent bonus to all of their stats, if they're humanoid.

you seem to be under a misapprehension. they cannot summon a genie that can grant wishes.

if you look under the summon genie entry, you will find that they are limited to summoning janni specifically, which cannot grant wishes.
That's what I get for posting from memory without double checking the book.  I would've sworn I've seen that trick used elsewhere though...  :shakefist
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 26, 2013, 02:31:50 PM
Yak folk make good cohorts as they can summon a genie and command him to spam wishes for the rest of the party.  Everyone basically gets +3 inherent bonus to all of their stats, if they're humanoid.

you seem to be under a misapprehension. they cannot summon a genie that can grant wishes.

if you look under the summon genie entry, you will find that they are limited to summoning janni specifically, which cannot grant wishes.
That's what I get for posting from memory without double checking the book.  I would've sworn I've seen that trick used elsewhere though...  :shakefist

probably a player of loose morals running questionable shams upon a hapless or lazy dm. or just ignoring the rules in favor of what is more fun (for someone).


not that i can say much: i post from memory lots and get lambasted for it all the time on these forums. *^^*
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 26, 2013, 04:12:03 PM
My memory holes are bigger than yours ...
(wait-a-minute , that doesn't sound quite right)


Plus that Genie Janni is a little grumpy, too.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 27, 2013, 12:55:54 AM
From Planewalker.org

Lord of the dead... Use undead creatures' CR instead of ECL!
Static Spell... Non-chaotic spells gain lawful subtype automatically have average rolls (1d20 =10.5) for +0 lvl
Descend the Chain... Unlimited duration Shapechange at 12+ lvl
Imbue Equipment... Nonspellcasters can craft magic items with just a wand
Grab Magic... Steal spell effect w a Will save only
Intrinsic Value... Replace 'expensive' material components with similar items worth 25% (diamond with a crap-ton of dirt)
Natural Alpha... Str added to all intimidate checks, Str added to Diplomacy vs. Same faction
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 27, 2013, 08:57:12 AM
From Planewalker.org

Lord of the dead... Use undead creatures' CR instead of ECL!
Static Spell... Non-chaotic spells gain lawful subtype automatically have average rolls (1d20 =10.5) for +0 lvl
Descend the Chain... Unlimited duration Shapechange at 12+ lvl
Imbue Equipment... Nonspellcasters can craft magic items with just a wand
Grab Magic... Steal spell effect w a Will save only
Intrinsic Value... Replace 'expensive' material components with similar items worth 25% (diamond with a crap-ton of dirt)
Natural Alpha... Str added to all intimidate checks, Str added to Diplomacy vs. Same faction

Your link is off, it's www.planewalker.com (http://www.planewalker.com), not .org.
Lord of the dead takes two qualification feats and basically means that with your leadership you can replace your level one commoners with zombie troglodytes. And you get to have some rather useful undead take up you cohort slot. It's pretty great in E6 though.
Descend the chain is actually not that great (which makes me a bit sick to say considering it's shapechange). It takes 15 ranks in a skill that's not super useful, membership in a faction, 19 wisdom, 3 other feats, and either being a binder or a fourth feat to use indefinitely. And your cap is still only half your level.
Imbue Equipment uses scroll, takes a useless feat and only works for arms and armor.
Grab Magic is indeed great.
Intrinsic value is crazy brokenly good. Awesome find.

The rest are rather middle of the road.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 27, 2013, 09:56:35 AM
Ehh, I thought they were cool ;)

check out Metafeats in the Homebrew, that's an easy way to get those prereqs

there's actually quite a few CR ~1 undead that are cool (one example - ghoul)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 27, 2013, 11:17:24 AM
Ehh, I thought they were cool ;)

check out Metafeats in the Homebrew, that's an easy way to get those prereqs

there's actually quite a few CR ~1 undead that are cool (one example - ghoul)

They are pretty cool, got some nice stuff. I do try to avoid judging (at least semi) official things based on how homebrew effects it, preferring the other way around myself.
You did inspire me to download the whole Campaign Setting finally, so that fun. It also has some more interesting stuff.
Look into the Races Section of Chapter 2. There you'll find the Shad. Nothing super special about them normally besides being able to live in kobold warrens just fine. But they are rather uniquely suited to an Ur-Priest based Fochlucan Lyrist build. Although they have a penalty to wisdom, that's not an issue if you stick to buffs. But they get Druidic as a bonus language and a bonus to constitution. Plus, in a rare case where I care, the fluff fits perfectly. They've got bard as a favored class, a destroyed homeland, a knack for taking the quick path, and everyone already hates them.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 27, 2013, 11:41:38 AM
The bendy limb guys? Yeah they were cool

I only mentioned that homebrew to make the feat easier to get early
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Lo77o on April 27, 2013, 12:50:04 PM
From Planewalker.org

Lord of the dead... Use undead creatures' CR instead of ECL!
Static Spell... Non-chaotic spells gain lawful subtype automatically have average rolls (1d20 =10.5) for +0 lvl
Descend the Chain... Unlimited duration Shapechange at 12+ lvl
Imbue Equipment... Nonspellcasters can craft magic items with just a wand
Grab Magic... Steal spell effect w a Will save only
Intrinsic Value... Replace 'expensive' material components with similar items worth 25% (diamond with a crap-ton of dirt)
Natural Alpha... Str added to all intimidate checks, Str added to Diplomacy vs. Same faction

Your link is off, it's www.planewalker.com (http://www.planewalker.com), not .org.
Lord of the dead takes two qualification feats and basically means that with your leadership you can replace your level one commoners with zombie troglodytes. And you get to have some rather useful undead take up you cohort slot. It's pretty great in E6 though.
Descend the chain is actually not that great (which makes me a bit sick to say considering it's shapechange). It takes 15 ranks in a skill that's not super useful, membership in a faction, 19 wisdom, 3 other feats, and either being a binder or a fourth feat to use indefinitely. And your cap is still only half your level.
Imbue Equipment uses scroll, takes a useless feat and only works for arms and armor.
Grab Magic is indeed great.
Intrinsic value is crazy brokenly good. Awesome find.

The rest are rather middle of the road.

Iv been looking at the website. Is this homebrew or official like wotc's own website stuff?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 27, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
From Planewalker.org

Lord of the dead... Use undead creatures' CR instead of ECL!
Static Spell... Non-chaotic spells gain lawful subtype automatically have average rolls (1d20 =10.5) for +0 lvl
Descend the Chain... Unlimited duration Shapechange at 12+ lvl
Imbue Equipment... Nonspellcasters can craft magic items with just a wand
Grab Magic... Steal spell effect w a Will save only
Intrinsic Value... Replace 'expensive' material components with similar items worth 25% (diamond with a crap-ton of dirt)
Natural Alpha... Str added to all intimidate checks, Str added to Diplomacy vs. Same faction

Your link is off, it's www.planewalker.com (http://www.planewalker.com), not .org.
Lord of the dead takes two qualification feats and basically means that with your leadership you can replace your level one commoners with zombie troglodytes. And you get to have some rather useful undead take up you cohort slot. It's pretty great in E6 though.
Descend the chain is actually not that great (which makes me a bit sick to say considering it's shapechange). It takes 15 ranks in a skill that's not super useful, membership in a faction, 19 wisdom, 3 other feats, and either being a binder or a fourth feat to use indefinitely. And your cap is still only half your level.
Imbue Equipment uses scroll, takes a useless feat and only works for arms and armor.
Grab Magic is indeed great.
Intrinsic value is crazy brokenly good. Awesome find.

The rest are rather middle of the road.

Iv been looking at the website. Is this homebrew or official like wotc's own website stuff?

It's a sort of neutral ground. It's officially endorsed, but not technically official. Rather like Dragon Mags and The Rest of Dragonlance.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 27, 2013, 03:18:58 PM
Basically its 2nd party, just between 1st and 3rd ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 27, 2013, 03:30:25 PM
Oh my. Illusion Perception, a general feat with no prerequisites besides membership in the Mind's Eye.

Quote
Illusion Perception [General, Faction-Dependent]
Your belief that reality is merely a backdrop for life‟s tests allows you to easily look beyond what your
senses perceive.
Prerequisite: Membership in the Mind‟s Eye.
Benefit: You automatically get a Will save against illusions, whether you interact with them or not,
even if there is not normally a save granted. Also receive a +4 bonus against illusions.
Normal:  Many  illusionary  effects  require  you  to  interact  with  the  illusion  or  purposely  attempt  to
disbelieve the effect before receiving a save.

Any illusion. Just a single will save to ignore it. Even if it doesn't allow a save normally. You know what's an illusion like that?
Displacement. And Mirror Image.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 27, 2013, 04:05:12 PM
Oh my. Illusion Perception, a general feat with no prerequisites besides membership in the Mind's Eye.

Quote
Illusion Perception [General, Faction-Dependent]
Your belief that reality is merely a backdrop for life‟s tests allows you to easily look beyond what your
senses perceive.
Prerequisite: Membership in the Mind‟s Eye.
Benefit: You automatically get a Will save against illusions, whether you interact with them or not,
even if there is not normally a save granted. Also receive a +4 bonus against illusions.
Normal:  Many  illusionary  effects  require  you  to  interact  with  the  illusion  or  purposely  attempt  to
disbelieve the effect before receiving a save.

Any illusion. Just a single will save to ignore it. Even if it doesn't allow a save normally. You know what's an illusion like that?
Displacement. And Mirror Image.
Where's that from?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 27, 2013, 04:16:28 PM
According to google, Planewalker.com

RTF file: www.planewalker.com/sites/www.planewalker.com/files/chapter4.rtf
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 27, 2013, 04:29:26 PM
Holy black on a popo, I thought DandDwiki was full of crap.  :banghead

Powers of the Imagination
Prerequisite: Membership, lol.
Make a 1d20 + Wis Mod + 1/2 lvl check vs DC 20 + 5 per usage in the last 24 hours. Success means you can cast any 4th level Spell. If you roll a Natural 1 you become a 2/5s scale shadow of your self, a successful check or Remove Curse cures.

Greater Powers of the Imagination
Prerequisite: Above feat & +8 Base Will Save.
As above, but up to 9th level Spells and Natural 1s when casting something greater than 5th level it'll kill you and delete your body.

Who wants 9th level Spells by level 4? Bonus points if you take the Luck Domain to prevent a Natural 1.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TravelLog on April 27, 2013, 04:37:41 PM
Actually you need to be at least at least 12th level because of the Will Save. It's Base Will, so not modified by your stats or anything.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 27, 2013, 04:42:13 PM
Actually you need to be at least at least 12th level because of the Will Save. It's Base Will, so not modified by your stats or anything.
Not so - take 1 level in 4 different base classes with good Will saves.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 27, 2013, 05:14:11 PM
Holy black on a popo, I thought DandDwiki was full of crap.  :banghead

Powers of the Imagination
Prerequisite: Membership, lol.
Make a 1d20 + Wis Mod + 1/2 lvl check vs DC 20 + 5 per usage in the last 24 hours. Success means you can cast any 4th level Spell. If you roll a Natural 1 you become a 2/5s scale shadow of your self, a successful check or Remove Curse cures.

Greater Powers of the Imagination
Prerequisite: Above feat & +8 Base Will Save.
As above, but up to 9th level Spells and Natural 1s when casting something greater than 5th level it'll kill you and delete your body.

Who wants 9th level Spells by level 4? Bonus points if you take the Luck Domain to prevent a Natural 1.

To be fair, only about half the mechanics are crap. Most of the fluff and half the mechanics aren't bad. That's far better than DanDwiki.

Also, you conveniently failed to mention you're capped at what a character of your level can cast. It's still crazy good, but not quite that broken.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SolEiji on April 27, 2013, 06:16:20 PM
....delete... your body?  Wat?

My brain....  :???
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: bruceleeroy on April 27, 2013, 09:05:30 PM
Oooh...I'm thinking about giving that feat to a character in a game that I'm running soon.

But with a small tweak. Instead of the negative effect only on a Nat 1, I'm going to expand it to 1 + (the level of the spell you cast)  or lower. And instead of 2/5's shadow (wtf), the spell rolls on a custom mishap table.

Powerful, yes. Random as fuck? Of course. Entertaining? Absolutely.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on April 27, 2013, 09:36:21 PM
....delete... your body?  Wat?

My brain....  :???
He means when you die you don't leave a corpse, so no cheap Raise Dead.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TravelLog on April 28, 2013, 12:49:44 AM
Actually you need to be at least at least 12th level because of the Will Save. It's Base Will, so not modified by your stats or anything.
Not so - take 1 level in 4 different base classes with good Will saves.

Well yes if we're not using fractional saves. :eh

Touché.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on April 28, 2013, 01:06:07 AM
Actually you need to be at least at least 12th level because of the Will Save. It's Base Will, so not modified by your stats or anything.
Not so - take 1 level in 4 different base classes with good Will saves.

Well yes if we're not using fractional saves. :eh

Touché.

Depends on the variant of fractionals.  Some of them are 2 + 1/2 for each class with the Good progression, and others are just 2 + 1/2 for the first class and anything added on is simply +1/2.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: littha on April 28, 2013, 01:11:07 AM
Actually you need to be at least at least 12th level because of the Will Save. It's Base Will, so not modified by your stats or anything.
Not so - take 1 level in 4 different base classes with good Will saves.

Well yes if we're not using fractional saves. :eh

Touché.

Actually there is nothing to suggest that fractional saves don't stack the (+2) level 1 bonuses.  It is however a common misconception/house rule
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: TravelLog on April 28, 2013, 02:32:10 AM
Ah, is it Embarrass TravelLog Day again? Man, the year really does roll around fast.  :plot
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 28, 2013, 07:25:42 AM
Ah, is it Embarrass TravelLog Day again? Man, the year really does roll around fast.  :plot
Lol. You'll be happy to know that that is indeed another variant from UA, in a sidebar nearby (don't have that book at the moment, so I can't quote page numbers).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on April 28, 2013, 09:57:48 AM
Cycle of Testing (better) / Complete the Cycle are both rather interesting in E6, where Raise Dead is difficult to come across, one can simply reincarnate.

Calculating Vigilance: Int as Damage modifier

Self Reliance: +1 skill point / level (without the goody goody reqs of Nymph's Kiss)

Annihilation Spell: spell level con damage, +2. Not bad on a metamagic stacker.


In any case, lots of interesting feats, but most with sanity caps on them. Prestige classes didn't look particularly interesting.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 28, 2013, 10:39:53 AM
Also, you conveniently failed to mention you're capped at what a character of your level can cast. It's still crazy good, but not quite that broken.
Is that what it's supposed to mean? God, it's worded so shitty when I first read it I thought it meant a 9th level Spell & 9th level Wizard, because it never once references your level or makes it clear that after using the word "level" for Spell Level twice it's now using "level" to refer to your Character Level.

All well, I can have those lame reading moments too ya know :p
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on April 28, 2013, 12:26:02 PM
Also, you conveniently failed to mention you're capped at what a character of your level can cast. It's still crazy good, but not quite that broken.
Is that what it's supposed to mean? God, it's worded so shitty when I first read it I thought it meant a 9th level Spell & 9th level Wizard, because it never once references your level or makes it clear that after using the word "level" for Spell Level twice it's now using "level" to refer to your Character Level.

All well, I can have those lame reading moments too ya know :p

Fair enough, just making sure it wasn't one of those "Look at what I can do when I purposely misinterpret things" moments. Those are much worse.

The PrCs aren't that great, there's a few decent ones, if you're looking for a mounted but not ubermount build or just wanting some natural weapons. And of course there's always a full caster with a few features PrC or two.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 28, 2013, 02:26:07 PM
Oh, here is a fun one.

Insidious Magic is a feat requiring Shadow Weave Magic that renders the effects of any of your non-Evocation or Transmutation undetectable to Divination unless the caster succeeds on a caster level check against your Caster Level + 11.

Why is this fun? Minor/Major/True Creation come to mind, as well as using their byproducts with Fabricate and the like.

On another note, anyone else amused that the Luminous Assassin line summons a humanoid? And is persistable? If you are in an E6 game, a disposable, easily enhanced (anything that works on humanoids, plus anything that enhances summoned monsters) assassin is pretty damn nice.

Might want to Dominate it, though, so you can give it instructions other than "kill that guy over there"; they do have an Intelligence of 14, so they can be Baby's First Summoned Intelligent Helper if you know what you are doing.

The first one is the only spell that's even semi-decent out of the line, though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 28, 2013, 03:00:15 PM
Awesome Amechra, I posted about this on the Pun-pun thread.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on April 28, 2013, 03:16:20 PM
Awesome Amechra, I posted about this on the Pun-pun thread.

I don't read that thread, so I wouldn't have known.

Still, the more people who know about it, the better.

EDIT: I thought you were telling me you already knew about it. Whoops.

Second statement holds true, though.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 28, 2013, 03:48:53 PM
Red Wizard of High Sorcery 3 gets the same, but affects all schools.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 8wGremlin on April 28, 2013, 04:20:45 PM
I like the 1st level spell SUMMON MARKED HOMUNCULUS, which lasts LVL/Hours! (dragonmarked)

This spell allows a caster with the Mark of Making to summon a special homunculus. If you possess a least Mark of Making, you can summon a dedicated wright, expeditious messenger, or furtive filcher homunculus (ECS 284–286), or an arbalester homunculus (Magic of Eberron 152). If you possess a more powerful Mark of Making, you can instead summon a true homunculus (MM154), an iron defender (ECS 287), a packmate (MoE 153), or a persistent harrier (MoE 153). A small glyph resembling your dragonmark appears somewhere on the homunculus’s body. If the homunculus is reduced to 0 hit points, it explodes in a burst of blue, green, and purple light that deals 1d6 points of damage to all adjacent creatures except you.
Material Component: A pinch of dragonshard dust. Dragonmark: Any Mark of Making.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on April 28, 2013, 04:26:53 PM
I like the 1st level spell SUMMON MARKED HOMUNCULUS, which lasts LVL/Hours! (dragonmarked)

This spell allows a caster with the Mark of Making to summon a special homunculus. If you possess a least Mark of Making, you can summon a dedicated wright, expeditious messenger, or furtive filcher homunculus (ECS 284–286), or an arbalester homunculus (Magic of Eberron 152). If you possess a more powerful Mark of Making, you can instead summon a true homunculus (MM154), an iron defender (ECS 287), a packmate (MoE 153), or a persistent harrier (MoE 153). A small glyph resembling your dragonmark appears somewhere on the homunculus’s body. If the homunculus is reduced to 0 hit points, it explodes in a burst of blue, green, and purple light that deals 1d6 points of damage to all adjacent creatures except you.
Material Component: A pinch of dragonshard dust. Dragonmark: Any Mark of Making.
Is this by any chance a Conjuration (summoning) spell? My Shadowcraft Mage would really like to know. :P
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on April 28, 2013, 04:52:32 PM
I like the 1st level spell SUMMON MARKED HOMUNCULUS, which lasts LVL/Hours! (dragonmarked)

This spell allows a caster with the Mark of Making to summon a special homunculus. If you possess a least Mark of Making, you can summon a dedicated wright...  <snip>
Nice, crafting on the run for only investing in an otherwise useful feat and a first level spell.  The low hit die on the rest of the homonculi makes them less useful, especially the ones you need more mark feats for.  But the arbalester could be quite nifty at extremely low levels.

And it is indeed Conjuration (Summoning).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 28, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
Yes it is, but you still need the Dragonmark.

Also ninja'ed by 35 seconds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on April 28, 2013, 05:39:11 PM
Yes it is, but you still need the Dragonmark.

Also ninja'ed by 35 seconds.

I remember that spell from working on the SCM handbook. The dragonmark component is ignored by SCM if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 29, 2013, 02:38:27 AM
I remember that spell from working on the SCM handbook. The dragonmark component is ignored by SCM if I remember correctly.
A. There is no rule precedence to claim SCM ignores Components, just forum theory.
B. Snippet of text: "If you possess a Least Mark of Making, you can summon a dedicated wight..." No mark, no choice(s).

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on April 29, 2013, 07:47:35 AM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 29, 2013, 07:57:23 AM
I remember that spell from working on the SCM handbook. The dragonmark component is ignored by SCM if I remember correctly.
A. There is no rule precedence to claim SCM ignores Components, just forum theory.
B. Snippet of text: "If you possess a Least Mark of Making, you can summon a dedicated wight..." No mark, no choice(s).

Huh?

Quote from: SRD
Shadow Conjuration
Illusion (Shadow)
Level:   Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components:   V, S
Casting Time:   1 standard action
Range:   See text
Effect:   See text
Duration:   See text
Saving Throw:   Will disbelief (if interacted with); varies; see text
Spell Resistance:   Yes; see text
You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.
The components of the spell are the components. If it transferred components, it would say "see text" just like it does for Range, Effect, Duration, Save, and Spell Resistance. It doesn't actually cast the other spell, it only mimics the effects of casting it.

Do you have an argument for keeping the components of the mimicked spell, SorO? Why would you need components to generate a disbelievable illusion of a spell effect?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on April 29, 2013, 11:08:24 AM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?

apocalypse mage 10 can gain any true mark they want, and change it once per day. the fluff text might kill you though, especially if the dm takes it seriously. (the class name recalled from memory, i might be off on the exact title....)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on April 29, 2013, 11:58:18 AM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?

apocalypse mage 10 can gain any true mark they want, and change it once per day. the fluff text might kill you though, especially if the dm takes it seriously. (the class name recalled from memory, i might be off on the exact title....)

I absolutely love that fluff text. It basically says "Whatever story arc we are on, add dragons who hate us"
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on April 29, 2013, 12:34:22 PM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?

apocalypse mage 10 can gain any true mark they want, and change it once per day. the fluff text might kill you though, especially if the dm takes it seriously. (the class name recalled from memory, i might be off on the exact title....)
FYI, I think the name is Cataclysm Mage (Explorer's Handbook?)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 29, 2013, 02:22:53 PM
Do you have an argument for keeping the components of the mimicked spell, SorO?
Not really, rules are silent on the issue. The best for comment is the Spell that triggers the mimic it's self has certain components and not others. *shrugs*

It is undeniable that specially brought up and referenced Components can not bypassed, nor does Shadow Illusion invoke any special choice in causality. In the case of Summon Marked Homunculus, the Spell Effect's it's self is a if (true) add [] to choices, if (true) add [] to choices. So irregardless if SMH was turned into an SLA (which do directly state no components) it cannot get around the fact it still requires the noted Component. There are a few other such Spells that directly state costs, requirements, or criterias as part of their effect.

I guess the moral of the story is don't count your chickens before they hatch. Case by case instances always have oddities.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on April 29, 2013, 03:26:45 PM
Do you have an argument for keeping the components of the mimicked spell, SorO?
Not really, rules are silent on the issue. The best for comment is the Spell that triggers the mimic it's self has certain components and not others. *shrugs*

It is undeniable that specially brought up and referenced Components can not bypassed, nor does Shadow Illusion invoke any special choice in causality. In the case of Summon Marked Homunculus, the Spell Effect's it's self is a if (true) add [] to choices, if (true) add [] to choices. So irregardless if SMH was turned into an SLA (which do directly state no components) it cannot get around the fact it still requires the noted Component. There are a few other such Spells that directly state costs, requirements, or criterias as part of their effect.

I guess the moral of the story is don't count your chickens before they hatch. Case by case instances always have oddities.
Basically the way it works is that you're free to mimic Summon Marked Homunculus without a dragonmark, as you can bypass the component.  However, if you don't have any sort of Mark of Making, then it has no effect and you've wasted a spell slot.

Compare to Summon Living Dragonmark, the previous spell in that book.  If you emulate that, and don't have a dragonmark, you still get a Living Dragonmark, but its slam deals no damage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 29, 2013, 05:41:03 PM
Awesome Amechra, I posted about this on the Pun-pun thread.

I don't read that thread, so I wouldn't have known.

Still, the more people who know about it, the better.

EDIT: I thought you were telling me you already knew about it. Whoops.

Second statement holds true, though.

Confusing language is my kitty avatar's specialty, and not mine.
 :)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on April 29, 2013, 06:08:45 PM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?

There's a magical location that gives you a Dragonmark for a year. If your race doesn't normally qualify for one, you get an Aberrant one instead.

So a Human SCM (doable via the adaptation section) could get this effect without spending a feat.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 29, 2013, 07:37:02 PM
You know that i the second time I've heard of that location. Book/Page? I'd like to add it to my Location list.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: kitep on April 29, 2013, 08:02:05 PM
It's in the Eyes of the Lich Queen Adventure.  Page unknown.

More details in this thread:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2642.0

It seems to be missing from the magical locations and affiliations handbook  http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6624

Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Slaughterhouserock on April 29, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
It's in the Eyes of the Lich Queen Adventure.  Page unknown.

More details in this thread:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2642.0

It seems to be missing from the magical locations and affiliations handbook  http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6624

It's The Altar of the Dragon's Eye on page 10.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on April 29, 2013, 11:52:19 PM
There is always Chameleon's Floating Feat if you want a Human Least Mark for the day.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on April 30, 2013, 12:20:38 PM
It is undeniable that specially brought up and referenced Components can not bypassed, nor does Shadow Illusion invoke any special choice in causality. In the case of Summon Marked Homunculus, the Spell Effect's it's self is a if (true) add [] to choices, if (true) add [] to choices. So irregardless if SMH was turned into an SLA (which do directly state no components) it cannot get around the fact it still requires the noted Component. There are a few other such Spells that directly state costs, requirements, or criterias as part of their effect.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on April 30, 2013, 02:07:42 PM
+1
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on May 01, 2013, 10:44:42 AM
Isn't there a way to gain a temporary non-aberrant mark? Or gain an aberrant mark temporarily and convert it to a true mark?

apocalypse mage 10 can gain any true mark they want, and change it once per day. the fluff text might kill you though, especially if the dm takes it seriously. (the class name recalled from memory, i might be off on the exact title....)
FYI, I think the name is Cataclysm Mage (Explorer's Handbook?)

yup, that's the one, i keep misremembering the name.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 02, 2013, 05:33:45 PM
Quote
Rockburst
(Shining South)

Evocation
Level: Druid 2, Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No

You cause a stone object, with volume of at least 8 cubic feet, to explode.
Rock shards fly outward from the detonation, and all creatures within the area of the spell take 1d4 points of damage plus 1 point per caster level (maximum +15).
A successful Reflex save halves this damage.
A magic stone object, or a nonmagic stone object in the possession of another creature, gets a Fortitude save to negate the effect.
Creatures cannot be affected by rockburst.

Goodbye moon  :evillaugh
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Amechra on May 02, 2013, 06:43:45 PM
It took me a moment before I saw the "at least"...

Dear LORD, who wrote that? We need to shake their hand.

And figure out how to get to the moon at 2nd level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on May 02, 2013, 08:36:30 PM
How about if you used it on the mountain the BBEG's fortess is in/on?  No need for a dungeon crawl!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 02, 2013, 08:40:13 PM
Why not earth?  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 02, 2013, 08:41:14 PM
Why not earth?  :smirk

The earth isn't fully rock though so it wouldn't work  :(
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 02, 2013, 08:47:57 PM
It took me a moment before I saw the "at least"...

Dear LORD, who wrote that? We need to shake their hand.

And figure out how to get to the moon at 2nd level.
Er... save up all your money, take the Mercantile feat, and hire a spellcaster / buy a 1-charge wand / buy a scroll of X Teleport?

Be a Warforged, in case you're not in range when it starts...

Take two flaws so you can get Aberration Blood, one other [Aberration] feat, and Starspawn (so you can fly closer if errors occur).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Maat Mons on May 02, 2013, 09:47:03 PM
How about if you used it on the mountain the BBEG's fortess is in/on?

Wouldn't the mountain be just part a larger stone object comprising most of the continental plate you happen to be on? 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: sirpercival on May 02, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
Too bad it only detonates a 20-foot radius piece of the object...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on May 02, 2013, 09:57:23 PM
Technically, Rockburst does no damage.
1) The damage-dealing part of the spell only specifies creatures.
2) The spell says that it can't affect creatures.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on May 02, 2013, 10:02:27 PM
Too bad it only detonates a 20-foot radius piece of the object...

No, that's just the area the shards fragment into.  So, if your rock is bigger than the area, you start super-compressing it ...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on May 02, 2013, 11:16:48 PM
Why not earth?  :smirk
It gets a save.  Probably with a huge bonus.  "You can't destroy Earth!  That's where I keep all my stuff!"
The Moon on the other hand is an unattended object.   ;)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 03, 2013, 12:00:30 AM
Too bad it only detonates a 20-foot radius piece of the object...

actually, it breaks the whole object, but the damage is limited to 20ft
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Garryl on May 03, 2013, 12:23:01 AM
Breaking the object is part of the spell's effect, but the object is neither a direct target nor a component of the spell, so the rules about effects not extending past the spell's range should apply and only 100 ft. + 10 ft./level should break at best.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on May 03, 2013, 12:33:29 AM
No, it would be all of the stone object that gets affected, so long as at least part of it is within the spell area.  Just like if you fireball an ogre, and part of the ogre is outside of the range/area, it still takes full damage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on May 03, 2013, 01:25:23 AM
Durzagon, Half-fiend [MMII 124]. It seems to have a scaled down version of the Savage progression. At 5RHD at LA+3 (stupid update!) we can do better via some back-tracking and level-draining.

Remove the duerger and half-fiend LA levels and you've got 8 stat point bonuses and 3 subtypes. Woohoo!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: JaronK on May 03, 2013, 07:21:30 AM
Just a silly little combo:  Raging Luck + Orc Warlord + Horizon Walker.  One free action point per round, endlessly, and Horizon Walker 1 means you don't get fatigued.  Note that if the rest of your party is a bunch of Warforged, they only need Raging Luck and they get that swam of action points too.  Now just find fun uses for Action Points.

http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/raging-luck--2351/
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 03, 2013, 04:03:39 PM
Quote
Rockburst
(Shining South)

Evocation
Level: Druid 2, Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No

You cause a stone object, with volume of at least 8 cubic feet, to explode.
Rock shards fly outward from the detonation, and all creatures within the area of the spell take 1d4 points of damage plus 1 point per caster level (maximum +15).
A successful Reflex save halves this damage.
A magic stone object, or a nonmagic stone object in the possession of another creature, gets a Fortitude save to negate the effect.
Creatures cannot be affected by rockburst.

Goodbye moon  :evillaugh

HA !!

So ... this is a fast enough exp gathering
to qualify at level 21 for that Epic Destiny -like
thing from very late 3.99e that gives DvR 1
and at round 1 of level 1.  Round 2 anybody?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: JaronK on May 03, 2013, 06:01:54 PM
New amazing find:  A Moment Ago (Player's Guide to Sovereign Lands).  Lets you recast the most recent spell from last round (not your last spell!) with no material component or exp costs, but the choices of the spell must be the same.  Amazing for high cost spells like Wish, though note that you do need to make A Moment Ago a higher level spell to do this (Heighten + Earth Spell!).

Second amazing find: Holy Monk.  Lose your first level Monk feat for Turn Undead, Aura of Courage, and Smite Evil.  That's great for a Druid who wants to dip Monk... it opens up Divine Metamagic.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 04, 2013, 03:34:09 PM
Holy f-bomb Monk, batman !!
Monk 1 / Druid X ... just got better.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 04, 2013, 09:24:17 PM
Holy f-bomb, JaronK isn't dead.
I guess he got sick of Monkdays over at GitP.

Anyway, Player's Guide to Sovereign Lands is a 3rd party supplement for a 3rd party campaign world called Kingdoms of Kalamar. I'm not even sure the Dragon Mag fun-finds is an appropriate location for it. Which is where Holy Monk should go. And speaking of, it's really nice if you take the moment to list the issue number and page number for Dragon content. Which is #310 and page 40ish, right next to Martial Monk if you've ever had the chance to looked that up.

Holy f-bomb Monk, batman !! Monk 1 / Druid X ... just got better.
Actually, per Dragon 324 (page unknown) Monk can obtain Wild Shape anyway...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 04, 2013, 09:32:01 PM
I don't think a Holy Monk gets Turn Undead at level 1, since it's "as paladin."  You'd have to be a Monk 4. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: JaronK on May 04, 2013, 10:06:54 PM
Ah, the list I had showed them getting Turn Undead at level 1.  Oh well... not so great then. 

And yes, I'm back here as well... didn't show up here for a bit due to forgetting my password!

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 04, 2013, 11:02:49 PM
Painless Death (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/painless-death--1375/)

Sleeping creatures are always considered willing, right?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ariasderros on May 04, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
That spell has been discussed in-depth here before: Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3033.0).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Keldar on May 05, 2013, 02:00:52 AM


Holy f-bomb Monk, batman !! Monk 1 / Druid X ... just got better.
Actually, per Dragon 324 (page unknown) Monk can obtain Wild Shape anyway...
Page 97.
Sadly, Holy Monk and Wild Monk are both variant classes and not ACFs.   :-\
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on May 05, 2013, 02:16:31 AM
Just want to remind people about Minor Servitor from Savage Species. It's animate objects, awaken construct, and permanency all rolled into one 5th level (for wizards, 7th for clerics.) spell. The only issue is it's somewhat annoying 250 XP per cubic foot price tag, but any method of ignoring costs gives you a very useful spell. Dweomerkeeper comes to mind, and it's another thing shadowcraft miracles can do.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 05, 2013, 02:46:19 AM
Halfling Wizard 3rd lvl in Drag337 has the ability to cast one 1st level spell from ANY list as a 2nd level spell, repeats for a 5th at 12th

there are lots ofgreat spell lists that drop spell levels by significant amounts


graft weapon power + improvised weapons = 100ft rope hand, beer barrel fists, etc

what about the potential of a hulking hurler getting graft weapon'd?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 05, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
Sentinel (NG paladin from Dragon 310) can use any Medium or smaller Animal with the celestial template as their special mount (and it doesn't have to be a creature that can serve as a mount). This includes stuff like fleshrakers or even legendary apes.

EDIT: Sentinel not Incarnate. Incarnates get Medium elementals.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on May 05, 2013, 01:12:39 PM
Incarnate (N paladin from Dragon 310) can use any Medium or smaller Animal with the celestial template as their special mount (and it doesn't have to be a creature that can serve as a mount). This includes stuff like fleshrakers or even legendary apes.

That right there reminds me of some classic Zhentarum Skymage builds.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 05, 2013, 02:34:21 PM
Ahh... One of my favs :)

I had a DWK riding a grey linnorm in an old gladiator game
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 05, 2013, 03:08:14 PM

I don't think a Holy Monk gets Turn Undead at level 1, since it's "as paladin."  You'd have to be a Monk 4.

Aww ... well that still makes Monk 4 rather useful.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 05, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
Just want to remind people about Minor Servitor from Savage Species. It's animate objects, awaken construct, and permanency all rolled into one 5th level (for wizards, 7th for clerics.) spell. The only issue is it's somewhat annoying 250 XP per cubic foot price tag, but any method of ignoring costs gives you a very useful spell. Dweomerkeeper comes to mind, and it's another thing shadowcraft miracles can do.
Oooo... Nice!  An automatic draw-bridge!  A self-closing secret door.

They would detect as magical, however...

Make a bridge that attacks anyone who crosses it without first answering a riddle, etc.

So many uses for this.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 05, 2013, 03:51:05 PM

I don't think a Holy Monk gets Turn Undead at level 1, since it's "as paladin."  You'd have to be a Monk 4.

Aww ... well that still makes Monk 4 rather useful.
You still pick up Smite Evil at level one, and you reasonably can take From Smite to Song (http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-valor--28/from-smite-to-song--1195/) using your Monk-to-Paladin Smite Evil level.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kethrian on May 05, 2013, 08:08:31 PM
Just want to remind people about Minor Servitor from Savage Species. It's animate objects, awaken construct, and permanency all rolled into one 5th level (for wizards, 7th for clerics.) spell. The only issue is it's somewhat annoying 250 XP per cubic foot price tag, but any method of ignoring costs gives you a very useful spell. Dweomerkeeper comes to mind, and it's another thing shadowcraft miracles can do.
Oooo... Nice!  An automatic draw-bridge!  A self-closing secret door.

They would detect as magical, however...

Make a bridge that attacks anyone who crosses it without first answering a riddle, etc.

So many uses for this.

You could make the doors and elevators from Hitchhiker's Guide with those ...
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on May 06, 2013, 07:32:42 PM
Today I found an urban druid. His wild shape variant allows him to transform into objects among other things.
At higher levels, he can change into large and huge animated objects.
That means he can...

 :cool

...transform and roll out.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 06, 2013, 07:53:28 PM
 :D
Bard (of Chaos) sings:  Transformers ... Druids in disguise



EDIT --- my kitty avatar just told me I am not a Druid.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 07, 2013, 04:13:59 AM
You can totally play a Krenshar. It has an LA of 2 (don't check d20srd.org-it lies- the official srd and MM don't have that "cohort" in brackets next to the LA).

I found this out by reading the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII a long time ago. Go read Iron Chef: it's great.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 07, 2013, 02:07:30 PM
...how exactly does the Ex version of their Scare work anyway?
Quote
As a standard action, a krenshar can pull the skin back from its head, revealing the musculature and bony structures of its skull. This alone is usually sufficient to scare away foes (treat as a Bluff check with a +3 bonus).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 07, 2013, 02:31:27 PM
...how exactly does the Ex version of their Scare work anyway?
Quote
As a standard action, a krenshar can pull the skin back from its head, revealing the musculature and bony structures of its skull. This alone is usually sufficient to scare away foes (treat as a Bluff check with a +3 bonus).
I would assume it is a Bluff vs. Sense Motive.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 07, 2013, 03:42:02 PM
But what does "scaring them away" do? Panic them? Is there a maximum range or number of targets?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 07, 2013, 04:21:13 PM
But what does "scaring them away" do? Panic them? Is there a maximum range or number of targets?

As it's not a defined use in the normal rules, I suspect it's just being treated as an deterrent from an RP perspective. Crazy threatening creature = Do not engage.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 07, 2013, 09:13:04 PM
Ring of Fire (Exemplars of Evil) + Sculpt Spell + Energy Substitution = growing sphere of molten ice
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on May 08, 2013, 12:08:01 AM
Just want to remind people about Minor Servitor from Savage Species. It's animate objects, awaken construct, and permanency all rolled into one 5th level (for wizards, 7th for clerics.) spell. The only issue is it's somewhat annoying 250 XP per cubic foot price tag, but any method of ignoring costs gives you a very useful spell. Dweomerkeeper comes to mind, and it's another thing shadowcraft miracles can do.
Oooo... Nice!  An automatic draw-bridge!  A self-closing secret door.

They would detect as magical, however...

Make a bridge that attacks anyone who crosses it without first answering a riddle, etc.

So many uses for this.

You could make the doors and elevators from Hitchhiker's Guide with those ...

use it on a box before you subsequently enchant it to be a folding boat?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 08, 2013, 01:48:43 AM
There's some interesting things in the Rokugan Campaign Setting.

Craft (poison making) got the ability to increase a poison's save DC by up to 4 (2 for +5 craft check, 4 for +10)

there are some interesting feats...
-Ratling Ally gives you a nezumi cohort at 5th level
-Shinjo's Technique allows you to choose to replace you or your mount's Reflex save w a Ride check (negating Nat 1s doing so)
-Way of the Scorpion adds your Int mod to initiative
-Strike at the Tail gives you a free attack/round w a successful disarm
-Way of the Wasp gives you 2 extra ranged attacks w a full attack, doesn't stack with Rapid Shot only
-Master Researcher gives a whopping 20% discount on spell research... Did someone say Epic spells?
-Final Lesson allows you to undo a Power Attack penalty if you'd otherwise hit
-One Mind 1/rnd get an extra attack when you miss, at a -5 penalty to it and your remaining attacks (just do it after them all to negate the extra penalties)
-Pincers Hold, The Tail Strikes gives you an automatic crit threat vs. a feinted ff foe, without even rolling (this is implied, since it only asks you to attack, not hit) and any # of attacks vs. them
- another gives feint as a move action
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 09, 2013, 03:47:21 AM
In the second round of concentrating on Detect Evil, if you see an Overwhelming evil aura, and the HD or level of the aura’s source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round with no save.

An 11th level Cleric has an Overwhelming aura (interestingly, the alignment of their aura corresponds to the deity's alignment, not the clerics).  When you walk in to town, watch all the low level Paladins stand and drool in your presence!
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 09, 2013, 05:59:17 PM
So I realised that since the Leading the Attack and Vanguard Strike maneuvers provide allies with an Ex bonus to attack rolls, and the Bolstering Voice stance provides an Ex bonus to saves, you can use them to qualify for Mythic Exemplar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070504a&page=3)CC at lv4; Reikhardt's path can then advance your maneuver progression by 4 levels (not just your IL, you actually get more maneuvers/stances).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 10, 2013, 07:58:44 AM
I don't think it works like that, IL is based on Class Levels and not your effective maneuver progression in anything.

It's to say advancing the Warblade's Maneuver progression by it's self only gives you more Known/Ready/Stances. But without a Class Increase the IL would never change.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on May 10, 2013, 09:14:34 AM
Actually, the IL would advance at 1/2 level rate, at worst, like it does for any non-initiator class.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 10, 2013, 11:02:34 AM
It depends on how you interpret "gain +1 level of a class-based extraordinary ability to grant bonuses to allies (such as a marshal’s auras)."  If "Maneuvers" is the class-based extraordinary ability, then it advances your entire maneuver progression, likely including IL.  It would not, however, advance Maneuvers Readied, since that's a different ability. 
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 11, 2013, 08:28:22 PM
Praesidium Luminata is a 24k gp suit of +1 full plate in Dragon Compendium which radiates an aura out to 30ft when worn by a paladin. This aura acts as a combination of bless, bane, daylight and invisibility purge, and also reveals the true forms of shapeshifters. In addition, a paladin wearing the helmet can teleport the rest of the armor directly on to their body as long as it's within 10ft. (arranging the armor sections into the shape of a pegasus while you're not wearing them = optional)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Braininthejar on May 12, 2013, 08:03:01 AM
Not as much a fun as a wtf find. I've been reading Age of Mortals spells.

The first interesting find is Ensnare the Heart, which makes the target permanently helpful.

The second is Call Undead, a line of "summon monster" spells which at Call Undead IX allows you to summon a nightwalker.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on May 12, 2013, 10:31:33 AM
Just an observation that it's possible to do early entry on an Eldritch Knight.

Prepared caster 1 with the following feats: Militia (or Otherworldly or naturally having outsider type), Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Sanctum Spell, Heighten Spell.

For spontaneous casters, you can swap out Sanctum Spell for Versatile Spellcaster.

The issue is having 5 feats at level 1.  Even humans with two flaws fall short and I don't know any outsiders with a bonus feat.

As I recall Wu-Gen get a bonus metamagic feat at level 1, so they can work with two flaws.

Alternatively, does worshipping elder evils give you ANY feat?  :smirk

edit: Illumians can save a feat by picking up Improved Sigil [Krau], but it's debatable how this would work with versatile spellcaster.  Can be ruled to not stack.

edit2: Ignoring the FAQ that Precocious Spellcaster can't be used for early qualification, Illumians can do this with just one flaw..
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 12, 2013, 11:09:40 AM
edit2: Ignoring the FAQ that Precocious Spellcaster can't be used for early qualification, Illumians can do this with just one flaw..
Except Precocious Apprentice contains it's own Spellcasting requirement, should you obtain the ability to Cast 2nd level Spells you lose the exception that allows you to cast the Spell.

The FAQ has their own way of explaining it, chance of != real ability.
PA has it's self reference, the internal requirement means it doesn't meet the requirement as part of it's 1st effect.
And RAW it's a Schrodinger's Cat, even if you claimed it did meet requirements using it's 1st effect it instantly loses it. It's never in the desired position when observed.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 12, 2013, 01:31:22 PM
Yeah, PA has a pretty strong line about losing the feat when you can cast 2nd level spells.

The FAQ just explains that the feat disqualifies early entry without going into loops.

Because, say you advance to 4th level of your build (Wu 1/eld 3) you then gain the ability to cast 2nd spells normally. This triggers the feats clause, meaning you now lose the reqs for eldritch knight and thus lose your spells. This un-triggers the clause, regaining your spells.

This basically will give you NOTHING for 1 feat and 3 levels (except a 2nd level spell, wo a way to cast it)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on May 12, 2013, 02:18:27 PM
Not really. When you would lose the feat, you automatically self-qualify.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 13, 2013, 01:41:54 AM
McPoyo, are you saying that since the character has access to 2nd level spells through the prestige class, that the character still qualifies?

If so, note the rules in Complete Warrior:

(click to show/hide)

The character still need to meet the prerequisites to stay in the class, and losing them such that the character could no longer qualify except through the class's features means the character doesn't meet the prerequisites.

It's not like a Diablo 2 item that has a strength requirement and grants enough strength to keep itself up.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: McPoyo on May 13, 2013, 07:14:34 AM
I fail to see why not, since if you have 2nd level spells from the PrC, you lose them from the feat, which means you don't qualify anymore, which means you no longer have second level spells from the class, and therefore your feat kicks back in, which means you no longer etc.

It's either an infinite loop of quantum qualification, like Dragon Disciple 10, or it works. Which one makes your game not grind to a halt? You don't lose the feat, you lose the benefit of acting like you have a second level spell from the feat.

"When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot,[/quote] Relevant part from the feat, italics mine.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on May 13, 2013, 08:20:42 AM
I fail to see why not, since if you have 2nd level spells from the PrC, you lose them from the feat, which means you don't qualify anymore, which means you no longer have second level spells from the class, and therefore your feat kicks back in, which means you no longer etc.

It's either an infinite loop of quantum qualification, like Dragon Disciple 10, or it works. Which one makes your game not grind to a halt? You don't lose the feat, you lose the benefit of acting like you have a second level spell from the feat.

"When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot,
Relevant part from the feat, italics mine.
[/quote]

Be careful with that. Creating paradoxes like that in 3.5 results in the character being turned into a Sphere of Annihilation.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 13, 2013, 10:17:53 AM
The best way to make this work is to be a precocious apprentice Focused Specialist.

The feat grants you a 2nd level spell slot.  The ACF immediately causes you to lose that slot, and gain two 2nd level spell slots of your specialization school.  You no longer have the spell slot to lose when the feat deactivates itself.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: JaronK on May 13, 2013, 04:08:52 PM
Random fun find: Rain of Terror, from Dragon 348, is a Cleric 3 spell that causes frogs or snakes (or other things, your choice) to rain from the sky in a 100 foot emanation range around you for 1 minute per level.  It also gives bonuses to intimidate and such, but that's not what's important right now.

Half the creatures dropped by the spell survive.  That gives you huge numbers of small critters.  Combine with Persistent Consumptive Field and you can easily get your strength into the thousands... in addition to maxing out your caster level.  Yehaw!  Feel the froggy power!

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on May 13, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
Random fun find: Rain of Terror, from Dragon 348, is a Cleric 3 spell that causes frogs or snakes (or other things, your choice) to rain from the sky in a 100 foot emanation range around you for 1 minute per level.  It also gives bonuses to intimidate and such, but that's not what's important right now.

Half the creatures dropped by the spell survive.  That gives you huge numbers of small critters.  Combine with Persistent Consumptive Field and you can easily get your strength into the thousands... in addition to maxing out your caster level.  Yehaw!  Feel the froggy power!

JaronK

i wonder if moses combined that with that strength to intimidate feat on his skill check with the pharaoh....



as a side note, skin of ectoplasmic armor as an universal (wondrous) item require no proficiency to use - though since it applies a max dex, acp to skills and asf to spells, it may be of more use to a psionic type, but in a pinch it's +8 armor bonus for whomever; and only 3k gp.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 13, 2013, 04:59:30 PM
Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on May 13, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
comp psi has a different listing.

regardless of which one you decide to use, proficiency is not needed, which was the main thrust of my point. i guess the comp psi version gets around the movement and class ability clause, which can be nice in some situations.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 13, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
As previously mentioned, the War Hulk has some crazy abilities.

large gestalt drunken master 4 w a 100ft rope + War Hulk 10 + Crusader's Castigating Strike

affect all targets within 105ft for +8d6 and then 30ft burst for 5d6 around EVERY successful attack!

just have Steadfast Determination for no auto fails on your Fort, since you are affected by the blasts.

edit: Tornado Throw can get pretty ridiculous too, esp w Improved Trip (trip every foe within 105ft, per successful trip attack all foes within 105ft)
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on May 14, 2013, 12:02:30 PM
Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: nijineko on May 14, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 14, 2013, 01:40:15 PM
Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.
I don't think anything in the description says that it only works for Medium creatures, does it?

Not a bad deal for Bards or Duskblades, either, or Beguilers/Dread Necros/Warmages.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 14, 2013, 06:28:27 PM
... note the rules in Complete Warrior:

Meeting Class Requirements: It’s possible for a character
to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position
where the character no longer qualifi es to be a member of the
class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character
death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important
ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible
to advance farther in a prestige class.
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a
prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features
or other special abilities granted by the class.

!! The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as
any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses
that the class provided.

Oh yeah, similar arguments along these lines for PHB2 ReBuilding + cheese.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Kasz on May 15, 2013, 06:21:33 AM
Huh?

It costs 6k and is treated as Light Armor. MiC pg170.

Good for low-level Swordsages. Better if you can enchant it like actual armor. Best when refluffed as an Iron Man suit.

and for non-arcane caster types as well as any manifester.

as an added bonus, if it is not absorbed in wild shape or polymorph, then it can be used in the new form, presumably if that form is medium, as the armor shapes itself to the form of whomever uses it.

Ectoplasmic Armour, 6,000gp. +8 Armour. Max Dex +2. -6ACP. 25% Arcane failure. Light armour for purposes of Class Features & Movement. MiC pg170

Pretty good to be honest, that's easily +10 AC, it doesn't say it can be enchanted like armour though... so that comes down to DM fiat, probably no as it has other advantages... such as not having a set size so it basically has free Sizing... although sizing is weapons isn't it? Well you get a weapon enchant on your armour...that's pretty unique. So the "sizing" basically covers "Wild" or "wild clasps" which cost around 4000-5000 or a +3 bonus.
To get those stats on light armour you're looking at medium armour made from mithril, so that's like twice the price after you put on a wild clasp or Wild. Although these armours can then be further enchanted...

It's very good for early game druids. Later on they'll probably want Wild Dragonhide Mountainplate... or something.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 15, 2013, 10:57:29 AM
Proficiency is often a Class Feature...

Hmm.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on May 15, 2013, 11:18:46 AM
I think this works...

Base template abuse on Effigy Creature is already known, this is a somewhat different direction.


It is fairly straightforward to build a Sacred Guardian Effigy Creature with 21HD & intelligence, thus gaining access to epic feats.

0. Be a Cleric (Effigy Master as a bonus if you want adaptation it out to 10 levels, possibly use Duergar to early qualify), Know Religion, Craft (wood/stone/metal), Craft Construct, anything applicable from Cost Reduction Handbook
1. Boost CL to 21+
2. Acquire loots: base body cost(table) + (1000gp + 80xp)*HD
3. Create Effigy of 21HD
4. Acquire loots: Prepare or buy scrolls of animate objects, commune
5. Boost CL to 11+
6. Acquire loots: 500 stl/size, category + 10 XP/size category
7. Craft Effigy into a Sacred Guardian (Krynn)
8. Sacred Guardian Effigy w/ 21HD+ now has intelligence and gains epic feats. Example creature supports this, as it has feats.

Imbuing the Sacred Guardian with the domain granting Rebuke/Command (as cleric=HD) is a nice chain of command bonus.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 15, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
Ectoplasmic Armour, 6,000gp. +8 Armour. Max Dex +2. -6ACP. 25% Arcane failure. Light armour for purposes of Class Features & Movement. MiC pg170

Pretty good to be honest, that's easily +10 AC, it doesn't say it can be enchanted like armour though... so that comes down to DM fiat, probably no as it has other advantages... such as not having a set size so it basically has free Sizing... although sizing is weapons isn't it? Well you get a weapon enchant on your armour...that's pretty unique. So the "sizing" basically covers "Wild" or "wild clasps" which cost around 4000-5000 or a +3 bonus.
To get those stats on light armour you're looking at medium armour made from mithril, so that's like twice the price after you put on a wild clasp or Wild. Although these armours can then be further enchanted...

It's very good for early game druids. Later on they'll probably want Wild Dragonhide Mountainplate... or something.
Yeah, I'll definitely be getting this the next time I play a druid.  Realistically you won't be able to afford it until 7th or 8th level (you pretty typically see DM's restrict PC wealth to no one item more than 1/3 or 1/4 their total wealth), but still, that's when the Druid really starts to become the melee powerhouse anyway.

Then just pick up Dragon Wildshape and turn into a Shadow Dragon for +19 natural armor at 16th level.

Hell, dip a level of Swordsage to pick up armored Wis to AC, and with the Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor you are considered wearing armor, even while wildshaped... Delicious!

Easily AC 45 = 10 base +19 natural +5 enhancement (natural) +8 armor +3 deflection (ring).
Add in Swordsage for Wis to AC, and you can tack on another 5 or 6 (or more).
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on May 15, 2013, 11:34:40 AM
Shadow Wight (Krynn) a mere HD6/CR8 has Oblivion (Su)
Being Charisma drained erases the target from existence and memory, that not even Wish can restore.
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 15, 2013, 11:43:31 AM
That's...pretty awesome.

In other news: We just broke 51 pages. Don't we normally start a new one of these?
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2013, 11:49:43 AM
Done
Title: Re: Fun finds thread V3.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on May 15, 2013, 02:17:33 PM
New thread!