Author Topic: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes  (Read 40466 times)

Offline gabrion

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2014, 12:44:56 PM »
Quote from: Garryl
So like an aura of Lesser [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm
Entangle[/url]?

That could work, though I have to admit I don't even understand the mechanics of that spell.  The reflex save part makes sense, but "The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check" combined with "Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement," is sort of confusing to me.  I mean if you use a full round action to break free, what good did it do if you have to make the check again on your next round?  Maybe I just fail to understand.

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The problem with that wording is twofold. First that a character with only some sort of useless DR (such as DR 2/lethal) doesn't get any protection from anything that DR doesn't cover already since it won't add a new DR /-. Second, two instances of the aura would effectively stack on a character with no DR (the first gives DR 2*bonus/-, and the second would add 2*bonus to that).

Gotcha.

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The intent was not for the Divine Mind to be restricted in mantle choices. I wasn't even aware that the original Divine Mind was restricted at all, actually.

From CP pg. 10, "At 1st level, a divine mind chooses a deity to follow.  He then chooses from amonth that deity's assigned mantles (see Table 1-4, page 11)."

Later I guess it says, "At 6th level, you gain a second mantle; at 12th, you gain your third and final mantle," which could be interpreted to be less strict than the 1st chosen mantle.  Either way, ya there is at least some restriction with the CP version. 

I like that yours doesn't have that restriction, makes it much better than I was originally thinking.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2014, 01:23:54 PM »
Quote from: Garryl
So like an aura of Lesser Entangle?

That could work, though I have to admit I don't even understand the mechanics of that spell.  The reflex save part makes sense, but "The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check" combined with "Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement," is sort of confusing to me.  I mean if you use a full round action to break free, what good did it do if you have to make the check again on your next round?  Maybe I just fail to understand.

I always read it as forcing you to make a new Reflex save each round or be immobilized again. In any case, the revised Creation aura would be even simpler than that, no breaking free or anything, just a new save each round to avoid treating the aura as difficult terrain for that round.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2014, 05:48:05 PM »
I've been working on the Paladin a bit recently. I'd like to keep it similar in form to the original (daily smites, turning, weekly remove disease, etc.). The original Paladin (mostly) works from levels 1-5, so there's little need to change how it works at those levels. Along the lines of the Divine Mind, it will mostly be better (Bard-like) spellcasting, auras, and the removal of Divine Grace (+Cha to saves can be acquired with the correct minor auras, no need to double up). At higher levels, the improved spellcasting and fancier auras should be mostly enough, but I would like to throw in some minor extra features to make up for the weaker auras and lesser spell selection compared to a Divine Mind's powers (semi-narrow fixed list vs. all powers that can fit on any mantle w/ substitute powers). Remove Disease and Special Mount will remain as mostly flavorful abilities, largely so that existing ACFs don't break. A capstone is also needed, perhaps 1/day letting the effects of your divine auras extend to your full aura range, while also granting the personal benefits to allies within the normal lesser range.

One big thing that I'm working on is adding a suite of new spells that enhance smite attempts. The intent is to capitalize on the improved Paladin spellcasting to make Smite Evil into more than a 1-5/day medium boost to accuracy and damage on a single attack. These spells are all swift actions to cast and affect your next smite attempt within the round. Extend Spell and other duration boosters can let you precast multiple of these spells so that they all apply to a single smite attempt. I'm looking for more ideas of what effects are appropriate at various levels, especially for level 5-6 spells. On a side note, these spells will affect any smiting attempt, so many of them will also be on the Blackguard and Cleric spell lists.

Also, I'm leaving these link to some of my previous Paladin works as reminders of some of the features I can add. I also remember reading an interesting paladin rewrite a couple of days ago, but I can't remember where it was.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2014, 09:01:56 PM »
I'd suggest changing the smite to work the way it does in Pathfinder, daily uses but lasts for the encounter so it has a little more oomph.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2014, 11:21:07 PM »
Sounds like a good option for one of the spells. I'd rather change smite as little as possible internally so that everything I add that works with smite will also work with other existing smite abilities (such as the Destruction domain power and the Crusader smite). There are several abilities, feats, and items that are even designed around smites being a per day resource instead of a per encounter one, otherwise I'd probably change that as well. (I do intend to boost the baseline number of uses, though.) That doesn't leave much other than more external effects, but I kind of like thinking of smites as a carrier for spell special effects as much as a source of bonus damage. Here's my current list of smite spell ideas (and approximate spell levels).

Paladin Spells
Smite spells are a swift action to cast and affect your next smite attempt within 1 round. Extend metamagic doubles the duration as normal (so 1st attempt within 2 rounds) in case you want to stack multiple smite spells on a single smite attempt, albeit with some setup.
  • Extra Smite: Smite attempt does not count against daily limit. Paladin 1
  • Repeating Smite: If smite hits a valid target, your first attack against that target in the next round also counts as a smite. Paladin 1
  • Twin Smite: If smite is directed against a valid target, make a second attack against that target that also counts as a smite. Paladin 4
  • Extended Smite: Smite applies to all attacks on a full attack instead of only 1 attack. Paladin 3
  • Persistent Smite: Smite applies to all attacks against target for 24 hours instead of only 1 attack. Paladin 6
  • Empowered Smite: Smite grants an extra +2 on attack roll and +50% bonus damage. Paladin 2
  • Seeking Smite: If smite is directed against a valid target, true strike (as spell). Paladin 1
  • Piercing Smite: If smite hits a valid target, it ignores DR and hardness. Paladin 2
  • Shielding Smite: If smite is directed against a valid target, gain deflection bonus to AC vs. the subject for 1 round equal to the smite bonus to attack rolls, and DR /- vs. the subject for 1 round equal to the smite bonus to damage rolls. Paladin 3
  • Sweeping Smite: Smite attack is also made against all valid smite targets adjacent to target. Paladin 4
  • Energized Smite: Smite bonus damage is cold, electricity, or fire. Paladin 0
  • Admixtured Smite: Smite bonus damage is doubled; once as cold, electricity, or fire, once as another of those three energy types. Paladin 3
  • Elemental Smite: Smite bonus damage is tripled; once each as cold, electricity, and fire. Paladin 5
  • Disrupting Smite: If smite hits a valid undead, the undead must Will save or be destroyed. Paladin 4
  • Banishing Smite: If smite hits a valid extraplanar creature, the creature must Will save of return to its home plane. Paladin 5
  • Reckoning Smite: If smite hits a valid target, the target must Fort save or die/be destroyed. Paladin 6
  • Dispelling Smite: If smite hits a valid target, has a targeted Dispel Magic on the subject. Paladin 3
  • Impeding Smite: If smite hits a valid target, the target must Reflex save or be entangled. Paladin 1
  • Punishing Smite: If smite hits a valid target, the target must Fort save or be sickened. Paladin 1
  • Blinding Smite: If smite hits a valid target, the target must Will save or be blinded. Paladin 2

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2014, 10:42:46 AM »
There seems to be some misunderstanding, I take it you haven't give the PF Paladin a good look.  It is still a daily resource, but if I smite you then the smite bonuses last for the encounter/until you are dead instead of for just one attack.

You obviuosly don't have to go this route, but I'll leave this here for reference.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2014, 12:46:40 PM »
What I meant was that I do not want to go the PF route with the baseline smite ability. I want to keep the basic smite as it is now in 3.5, a one shot attack/damage bonus, not an effect that continues to provide bonuses for an extended period of time as it is in PF. I want the option to turn it into the PF smite, where the bonuses apply on every attack for the entire encounter and carries a couple extra goodies (ignoring DR, an AC bonus, increased damage on the first attack vs. certain foes, etc.), to be done through spells and abilities that modify what happens when you use a smite attempt.

For example, a Paladin who had cast Persistent Smite would get the smite bonus to attack rolls and damage against the target of her smite on every attack for the day. Add in Dispelling Smite (perhaps with a class feature that grants extra swift actions to cast Smite spells) and the Paladin would get a dispel attempt on each of those attacks throughout the day, or maybe Shielding Smite to get something similar to the PF smite's long-term AC bonus. (Side note, PF smite lasts until the target dies, not the Paladin, or until the Paladin rests to recover the daily smiting resource, not until end of encounter.)

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 12:48:09 PM »
Ahh, okay.  I was the one misunderstanding.   :p

Offline Amechra

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 04:48:55 PM »
Quick question:

If I make a Twin Persistent Smite (or a Twin Extended Smite), do I get the extra attack with every attack I make? Heck, in the case of the Twin Persistent Smite, don't I technically get infinite attacks?

1. I make a Smite attack!
2. I get an extra attack!
    a. Which is a Smite attack!
    b. I get an extra attack!
        i. Which is a Smite attack!
       ii. I get an extra attack!

And so on and so forth ad nauseum.

I'm aware this takes 2 spells, one 6th level and the other 4th level, but still.

Oh, and an idea for another Smite spell:

Quickened Smite: Make a Smite attack as part of casting this spell. Paladin 4.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2014, 05:11:57 PM »
The intent is no. The spells that give you extra smite attacks (Twin, Repeat, Extend, Persistent, etc.) aren't supposed to apply each other to your subsequent bonus smites, just the spells that give bonus effects to your smites (Entangling, Empowered, Energized, etc.). Although thinking about it again, even that might not be a great idea. You can just cast the spells before your bonus smites in the later rounds if you want more damage or extra effects. It'll be a lot simpler to write that way. No fancy interactions to worry about, just things that make later attacks also count as smites, and things that add effects to smites. Also no need to worry about unintended multiplication of power, such as a Persistent Reckoning Seeking Smite turning every attack into an auto-hit SoD. For example, you could smite someone with Repeating Smite on one round, and then cast Entangling Smite on the next round and it would apply to the bonus smite from last round's repeat.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 05:13:44 PM by Garryl »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2014, 05:21:40 PM »
Paladin spells are essentially complete (only a couple more that I'm not even sure I want to add). The Paladin itself is shaping up, with a class feature for multiple smite spells on a single smite and an ACF to replace the special mount with something more akin to a Druid's animal companion.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2014, 05:38:06 PM »
Looks good to me.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2014, 10:58:51 PM »
The Paladin is now complete. Big changes include Mettle (divided over two parts), sharing personal divine aura benefits, the capstone, and opening up the class to all good alignments.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2014, 09:53:38 AM »
That is a very good Paladin capstone!

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2014, 06:58:09 PM »
A draft of the Marshal is up. Still woefully incomplete, of course.

Edit: In addition to auras, the Marshal's secondary ability source is called commands. The Marshal has a presence score that goes down as he uses commands and up a bit each round or when he spends some actions to refill it. Higher level commands cost more presence to use. A Marshal can actually go into negative presence, which is fine except that he can't use more commands until it's above 0 again. Most commands have a greater effect when the Marshal has high presence, so there's a tradeoff between using them every round instead of finding something else to do or spending a round recovering every so often.

Commands usually have very short durations. However, buffing commands usually only take a move action, so you're not spending the better part of your turn just providing a small, short-lived bonus.

Edit Edit: I'd like to change the Divine Mind and Dragon Shaman capstones. Aura Mastery was great when the Divine Mind was the only aura class. I used it for the Dragon Shaman because I didn't have any better ideas and figured I could make a theme of it by giving it to all 4 aura classes. However, with the Paladin getting something legitimately cool while the Marshal, being even more aura focused than the rest, gets a souped up version, I'd like to find something more appealing for them both. Any ideas?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 10:52:30 PM by Garryl »

Offline Arz

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2014, 11:56:35 AM »
How about basing the capstone off the share mantle power feat or celestial/fiendish template?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2014, 09:23:30 PM »
How about basing the capstone off the share mantle power feat or celestial/fiendish template?

What do you mean? I'm not sure I follow.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2014, 03:55:00 PM »
Added a new capstone for the Dragon Shaman based on the dragonshape spell.

Offline Arz

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2014, 06:53:09 PM »
The feat you created; share mantle granted power. My woops. Seems like such an auto-take feat that would work great as an expanded class feature.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 08:05:21 PM »
How does this sound for the Divine Mind? Might need a little sprucing up.

Allied Victory (Su): Starting at 20th level, if any ally subject to your mantle auras has one of the following bonuses, all allies subject to your mantle auras gain them. Only competence, insight, luck, morale, sacred, and profane bonuses are shared this way.
  • Attack rolls, including critical confirmation rolls
  • Saving throws
  • Armor Class
  • Damage rolls
  • Caster and manifester level
  • Skill checks
  • Ability checks, including initiative checks
  • Level checks
  • Ability scores
The shared bonuses retain their type, magnitude, and any restrictions that they may have (such as bonuses to only melee attack rolls). Bonuses that apply only until they have been used a certain number of times (such as the attack roll bonus from a true strike spell) are not shared this way, nor are bonuses that must be applied to only a singular roll or event (such as the assignable bonus from the Fate mantle aura). Bonuses that apply to only a specific weapon or ability are shared, but since their restrictions are maintained, they only apply if the ally also uses the same weapon or ability.