Author Topic: Arcane Spellsurge toggling  (Read 3419 times)

Offline Solo

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Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« on: July 13, 2015, 01:35:22 AM »
This is a trick I hinted at in my guide to sorcerers, but did not make explicitly clear until today. I'm going to make it a separate thread so it gets some attention.

So let's say you cast Arcane Spellsurge, and bombarded your enemies with a mighty Maximized Fireball! Well, your full round action spell is now a standard action, which is great! But you have a swift action left, and nothing to do with it! If you don't need to save it for later, you can cast another Fireball on your enemies. Too bad you can't cast another Maximized Fireball, since you're out of standard actions and have no way to reduce the casting time of your metamagicked spells...

Unless you took the Metamagic Specialist ACF from the PHB2, you can apply metamagic to your spells without incurring additional casting time 3+Int mod times per day, which you can use to "toggle" your casting time with Arcane Spellsurge.

Arcane Preparation also works for this, since preparing a spell with it does not increase casting time.

Sadly, Rapid Metamagic does not mesh well with Arcane Spellsurge.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Snowbluff

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 06:18:10 PM »
Hey, this trick is mentioned in the Mailman handbook, isn't it? :o
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Offline Solo

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 06:21:02 PM »
Maybe?
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 11:20:45 AM »
Are you sure this works (without prepared spells) the way you say? The text says "without increasing the casting time" [PBHII61] so yes you can quicken a fireball (as the text mentions). But you can't quicken a maximized fireball because Arcane Spellsurge is still on.

I don't subscribe to the idea that you get to chose the order of your metamagic (that sort of 'how reality works' decision-making is up to the DM who will punish casters with the most suboptimal order).

Offline Solo

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 12:21:28 PM »
Are you sure this works (without prepared spells) the way you say? The text says "without increasing the casting time" [PBHII61] so yes you can quicken a fireball (a the text mentions). But you can't quicken a maximized fireball because Arcane Spellsurge is still on and it doesn't increase the casting times.
Either I do not understand what you are saying, or you misunderstand. Let me simplify.

Normlly Spellsurge allows you to cast a Maximized Fireball and a Fireball. Toggling allows you to cast two Maximized Fireballs.
Quote
I don't subscribe to the idea that you get to chose the order of your metamagic (that sort of 'how reality works' decision-making is up to the DM who will punish casters with the most suboptimal order).

From the 3.5 FAQ:
Quote
As a general guideline, whenever the rules don't stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that's most beneficial to the creature. In the case of damage, this typically means applying any damage-reducing effects first, before applying any effects that would increase damage.

This is just a guideline, but it's the only guidance I have on the subject. (And forcing characters to apply feat benefits in the most suboptiml manner certainly sounds strange.)

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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 11:51:46 AM »
Oh. You are assuming that you can gain the benefits of two uses of metamagic specialist in one turn (one to quicken the spell, one to maximize it). I thought there was a 1 use/turn clause. My bad.

whenever the rules don't stipulate an order of operations for special effects
Ah, but they do state it for metamagic. It is simultaneous. When that isn't logical, the DM decides. DMs don't want powerful casters. I understand that I have a minority opinion, but suddenly all the mailman builds aren't broken. Easy.

Offline Solo

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Re: Arcane Spellsurge toggling
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 11:57:58 AM »
Ah, but they do state it for metamagic. It is simultaneous. When that isn't logical, the DM decides. DMs don't want powerful casters. I understand that I have a minority opinion, but suddenly all the mailman builds aren't broken. Easy.
Where do they state it?
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