Author Topic: Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?  (Read 1929 times)

Offline geniussavant

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Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?
« on: October 12, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
Does the beguiler ability "At 20th level, you become able to automatically overcome the spell resistance of any affected target." Allow them to cast sr (yes) spells on a golem or does overcoming any amount of sr still fail to penetrate the golem's magic immunity?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 03:14:35 PM »
It fails.

So the common explanation of how a Golem's Magic Immunity works it is effectively has infinite SR, partly because no one actually understands infinite isn't a number, which allows them to ignore SR-checking Spells. And this explanation has a lot of problems with it because a creature with SR can choose to lower it's SR while a creature with Immunity to Magic cannot.

It also, as you point out, causes some confusion with the Beguiler. Magic Immunity is not Spell Resistance and the Golems do not have Spell Resistance. They do no have a number that can be overcome, not even if your Check is "infinite", because they do not have a number to begin with. The Beguiler's ability to overcome a creature's SR simply doesn't apply.

Now Immunity to Magic does render a creature immune to to Spells that check Spell Resistance. Things that bypass the check, such as a Supernatural Ability or a Spell doesn't check SR to begin with, work against a golem just fine. But these effects are not trying to overcome Spell Resistance, rather they because they do not allow Spell Resistance to apply in the first place so they are exempt from the Golem's Immunity. But as noted, the Beguiler's capstone does not alter a Spell's SR Check to yay or nay even through it functionally makes rolling the actual check a little redundant.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 04:39:33 PM »
3.0e Savage Species progression, had SR up to level 8, total immunity from level 9 onwards.
The 3.5e  version is technically a nerf, while still quite good.



Personally ... uhh ... a level 2  beguiler has cast spells on me.
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Offline geniussavant

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Re: Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 07:20:09 PM »
@soro_lost, that's what I thought,  just wanted to check
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Can a Level 20 beguiler casting spells on a golem?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2016, 11:53:43 AM »
Personally ... uhh ... a level 2  beguiler has cast spells on me.
lol. It would have been perfect if he said "my DM loves using golems, would this work on a DM golem?" instead of just "a golem".