Author Topic: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit  (Read 20244 times)

Offline Mister Lamp

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Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« on: November 22, 2011, 04:05:32 PM »
The Dragon Handbook
A guide for PCs and DMs to getting the most out of half the game.

Half the game is Dragons, but when considering characters the word "Dragon" rarely pops into your mind. They have just as much, if not more support as any other character, but not a ton of effort has been put into how to make them more effective. We've got some (bestow curse, etc...) but if all goes according to plan, this'll change that.

For Players:
    You guys get most of the space here, as DM's already have ways to use dragons. The first place to start on a Dragon PC is your DM. First, ask him if LA buyoff is allowed in this campaign. If not, you would probably be better of with a more traditional character. The next step is to ask your DM for some extra stuff for your character, as few dragons are worth their ECL. That isn't necessary, but an extra level or two, or some bonus magic items will really help you.

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For DM's:
     A lot of the info here will be pointed towards players. There will be a section devoted directly to DM use of dragons later, but feel free to pillage and plunder the more player geared resources. If you have a(some) Dragon PC(s) in your campaign, consider giving them bonus EXP or a lower LA or some other benefit, as Only a few Dragons are easily playable with their ECL as written.

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A note on sources: I will be including stuff from the core WotC books, as well as Dragon Magazine. Some DMs may not allow them, but I feel its important to give you all the options.

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Changelog:
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 01:52:09 AM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 04:05:41 PM »
A List O' Dragons
THIS LIST WAS DELETED, IF YOU WANT TO HELP RECREATE IT, GO TO THE DISCUSSION THREAD FOR THIS HANDBOOK
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 12:08:38 AM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 04:05:57 PM »
For the Players
or
Wings, Scales, and Draconic Tales

Whew, this is the fun part. Dragon PCs are awkward. The LAs are way too high, a lot of the breath weapons are underwhelming, and Steel Gish builds are about all you can find anywhere. Now, dragons are good. They have access to options no one else does. Draconic Polymorph has all the tricks polymorph does, with some stat increases thrown on. Aging Abuse increases your power significantly during combat.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 01:38:22 AM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 04:06:14 PM »
For DMs
or
Hoard n Board

On the Increase of HD and the Taking of Class Levels
Advancing the challenge of a Dragon usually involves either increasing hit die, or giving it class levels.
Increasing a Dragon's hit die will make it more challenging, but it won't be a very unique challenge.
Adding class levels increases the challenge faster, and also makes for a very unique fight.

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On using dragons in campaigns
I've found that most campaigns fall into one of two categories. Either, 1.) The DM basically never uses a dragon, relying instead on other creatures of comparable CRs, or 2.) Dragons are used early and often, sometimes multiple times in one session. Part of this is campaign settings (Dragonlance lends to more dragon encounters than Eberron), but I think the majority of it just comes down to style. Neither of these is *wrong* but I believe dragons should be used reasonably often, but in a unique way.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 01:23:09 AM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 04:06:37 PM »
Builds

Build 1
Mechatarrasque's Gish Build. (could use more details)
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Build 2
There is no build 2... yet.
Will YOURS go here?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 01:48:43 AM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 04:06:56 PM »
I need suggestions on what to fill this one with. Until then this is just reserved for any spill-over.
:plotting                                       :plotting                                                                             :plotting
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:12:34 PM by Mister Lamp »
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Offline Bastian

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 06:17:46 PM »
Since Soro helped you with this, I take it you will not be including Dragonwrought Kobolds.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 06:28:11 PM by Bastian »

Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 06:38:32 PM »
Since Soro helped you with this, I take it you will not be including Dragonwrought Kobolds.

I wouldn't've anyway. There's enough info, and conflict, elsewhere without it bogging down the true goal of this guide.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2011, 09:01:48 PM »
are you limiting the guide to true dragons, or are you including all of them? (except kobolds, of course)

Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 09:03:42 PM »
are you limiting the guide to true dragons, or are you including all of them? (except kobolds, of course)

not decided yet. I will start with just true dragons, but I may include others later.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 10:20:02 PM »
Please try to keep up the same level of detail. I think they all have LA since even the epic dragons have one iirc. Let me know if you are missing a book ;) Dragons you are forgetting, and their sources:

Adamantine   Dragon 321
Amethyst   Monster Manual 2
Arboreal   Dragon 322
Astral   Dragon 344
Axial   Dragon 323
Black   Monster Manual 1
Beast   Dragon 324
Brainstealer   Dragon 337
Elysian   Dragon 346
Chaos   Draconomicon
Chiang Lung   Oriental Adventures
Chole    Dragon 345
Chromium   Dragon 356
Cobalt   Dragon 357
Concordant   Dragon 325
Force   Epic Level Handbook
Gloom   Dragon 347
Greyhawk   Dragon 339
Hex   Dragon 343
Iron   Dragon 358
Nickel   Dragon 359
Orange   Dragon Compendium
Prismatic   Epic Level Handbook
Purple   Dragon Compendium
Sea   Dragonlance:The age of mortals
Spinewyrm   Dungeon 110
Time   Dragon 359
Tome   Dragon 343
Tungsten   Dragon 360
Yellow   Dragon Compendium

non-true dragons LA starting place is Drac144

Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 10:25:40 PM »
Please try to keep up the same level of detail. I think they all have LA since even the epic dragons have one iirc. Let me know if you are missing a book ;) Dragons you are forgetting, and their sources:

Adamantine   Dragon 321
Amethyst   Monster Manual 2
Arboreal   Dragon 322
Astral   Dragon 344
Axial   Dragon 323
Black   Monster Manual 1
Beast   Dragon 324
Brainstealer   Dragon 337
Elysian   Dragon 346
Chaos   Draconomicon
Chiang Lung   Oriental Adventures
Chole    Dragon 345
Chromium   Dragon 356
Cobalt   Dragon 357
Concordant   Dragon 325
Force   Epic Level Handbook
Gloom   Dragon 347
Greyhawk   Dragon 339
Hex   Dragon 343
Iron   Dragon 358
Nickel   Dragon 359
Orange   Dragon Compendium
Prismatic   Epic Level Handbook
Purple   Dragon Compendium
Sea   Dragonlance:The age of mortals
Spinewyrm   Dungeon 110
Time   Dragon 359
Tome   Dragon 343
Tungsten   Dragon 360
Yellow   Dragon Compendium

Thank you very much. I had borrowed this list from SorO, so I haven't double checked. /bow
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2011, 11:22:14 PM »
Adamantium is up, and its interesting. Damage as one size Larger, Adamantine Natural Attacks, Improved Sunder, and the most interesting breath weapon yet. A cone of Hold Monster.

I'm sure there is a build waiting in your mind for one of these Dragons, so go ahead and post. I'd be happy to add it. With credit of course.  :whistle
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Offline deuxhero

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2011, 12:55:36 AM »
This has some useful stuff for dragon PCs listed.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 12:14:04 AM »
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Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 08:55:56 PM »
Some new updates up. Need feedback or help.

Please feed the writer
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Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 03:32:47 PM »
To quote myself from the old boards

Quote
The best combo for a humanoid I found for True Dragon Alternative Form + Half-Dragon form feat is a Flind (gnoll, humanoid, MM3). 24 Str, 12 Dex, 16 Con, I believe it comes out to.

Strength of True Form I find to be a bit lacking in most practical applications. Base Str, Dex, Con, NA or DR seems like the true form is going to be inferior to whatever you're polymorphing into. After all, we're polymorphing to pick up superior stats in the first place, and as a caster who's going to persist this, mental scores are going to be a focus. I suppose there are some corner cases where you might stack extremities in each form.

derp, wrong thread to discuss in

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 06:38:36 AM »
Speaking of Polymorph stuff, Draconic Polymorph is Polymorph but +8 to Str & +2 Con. 5th level too, same spell slot as say a Stilled Polymorph. In most coses, this is going to be better than Strength of True Form, not to mention the 20HD cap works as a better fillar while you wait on Shapechange.

Hilariously you could use it to turn into your self, upgrading your dumped physical stats in favor of the average plus bonuses. Like Steel 4 / Sorcerer 9 can Draconic Poly into an Juvenile version of it's self, dumping it's 8 str for 25, or a +17 gain. But really you could do better than 25 str if you dug around so it's more of a novelty. We can rebuild you, faster, stronger...

Offline Mister Lamp

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Re: Dragon Handbook -or- Hoarding for Fun and Profit
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 01:51:33 AM »
Alright. Some updates, hopefully some more on the way. For some reason, I really like working on this at odd hours of the morning apparently. . .
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