Author Topic: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]  (Read 17244 times)

Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2013, 12:41:02 PM »
ARCD 350: Mercury: Output:
Quote
The ambient temperature can never fall below -373 degrees Centigrade
-373 Centigrade is 100 degrees BELOW absolute zero... Absolute Zero is ~(-273.15) degrees C.
Was this the intention, or a typo?

KALD 379: Black:
Quote
Even deities attempting to pierce the veil with a salient divine ability must make a Will save against the key skill check roll of the filter in order to perceive beyond it
Couldn't you replace "key skill check roll of the filter" with "Spot check"? Or can that check be changed?

Just caught my eye as I was reading...

Offline Epsilon Rose

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2013, 12:02:04 AM »
Hey, this is a really cool system! If you don't mind, I have some questions about using it.
  • Could you make a cheaper two-part engine by combining a gravity flux oriented to a rotatable object and an orthogonal engine positioned inside it's bubble?
  • What's a good way to power stuff (especially engines) without specializing alchemistry, particularly at low to mid levels?
  • Actually, I'm not entirely sure what this class can do at low levels. With the exception of Imachination everything seems really limited, and even that can't do too much. Do you have any tips on playing a low level gramarist?

Offline Omnicrat

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2013, 11:51:35 AM »
Hey, this is a really cool system! If you don't mind, I have some questions about using it.
  • Could you make a cheaper two-part engine by combining a gravity flux oriented to a rotatable object and an orthogonal engine positioned inside it's bubble?
  • What's a good way to power stuff (especially engines) without specializing alchemistry, particularly at low to mid levels?
  • Actually, I'm not entirely sure what this class can do at low levels. With the exception of Imachination everything seems really limited, and even that can't do too much. Do you have any tips on playing a low level gramarist?

  • Yes, but why not just build a gravity powered ship, in that case?
       
  • I'm not sure how alchemistry powers stuff, but eldrich blasts, pretty much.
       
  • Well, low level gramarists get:  Infinite 2x2 chuncks of extradimantional space. "Living" buildings, armor, and weapons.  Gas masks.  Mithril-like (or better) steal.  Eventually 1100 man hours of labor in half an hour.  Basic terra forming.  And a bunch of stuff like that.

Offline Amechra

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »
Eh, ships are less impressive when you have permanent portals which, if I remember correctly, are not restricted to intraplanar travel.

So you could literally design a footpath that runs through several different planes if you can get someone to get you there first.

As a side note, it looks like the minimum dimension for a yggdratecture space is 1/8th of an inch, due to the size restrictions on portals to get into the spaces themselves.

Which means that, with YGGD 241, you can make a portal large enough to allow an entire platoon of soldiers through (hey, you can make doorways that are 32' by 24', with a fourth of an inch of transfer space.)

Really, you have 768 square feet of prime doorway space.
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Offline Omnicrat

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2013, 11:03:26 PM »
Amechra, you forget portal ships.  A small, fast, well-protected portal ship that at hire levels also include a planeshift engine.

Offline pieman2945

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2013, 01:22:35 PM »
So, correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume this works:  Make a barrel, with room for at least one cubic foot of sunmetal (more will make it more powerful), with a few inches of extra space and room for an equal amount in front.  Put green (for radiation), red and orange (for explosion) kaleidoscopic filters in the loose space.  Set up a circuit from behind that enters into the sunmetal.  Load the cannon with sunmetal behind and a projectile in front (I'm partial to Phlogiston,) and blow the sunmetal.  The filters should stop all negative effects, and the projectile should be shot at about 1000 miles/second (I think, could be much more.)

Would this work?

Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »
The problem with that is that there are no rules for the force output by an explosion...

Also! Amechra, your Phlogiston / gravity into a Ruby Red filter to absorb the heat energy for thousands of Ebbs doesn't work; a Ruby Red filter maxes out at 1000 Ebbs, the excess is wasted.

Offline Amechra

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2013, 05:12:26 PM »
That was actually added as a direct response to my Ruby Red Filter nuke.

Though there is a simple solution; have a device set up that swaps the filters each round. Then you can stack a bunch of the filters together.

Bam.

Batteries.

P.S. Am I the only one who's annoyed that the thread over on GITP decayed rapidly into "lets use actual physical laws for this", even though Kellus is on record as saying that the assumptions he were making are that the rules are the only extant laws of physics (or something to that effect)?

I mean, most of the stuff that's being developed is cool; its just when people are making an Orion drive that, by RAW (or RAI, I think), doesn't actually work...
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"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2013, 05:34:09 PM »
That was actually added as a direct response to my Ruby Red Filter nuke.

Though there is a simple solution; have a device set up that swaps the filters each round. Then you can stack a bunch of the filters together.

Bam.

Batteries.

P.S. Am I the only one who's annoyed that the thread over on GITP decayed rapidly into "lets use actual physical laws for this", even though Kellus is on record as saying that the assumptions he were making are that the rules are the only extant laws of physics (or something to that effect)?

I mean, most of the stuff that's being developed is cool; its just when people are making an Orion drive that, by RAW (or RAI, I think), doesn't actually work...
Oh, ahaha, sorry. Didn't know that.

Yeah, that bugs me... physical laws don't matter, only the stated ones.
You can't make any assumptions with this...

I now propose my creation! It's only in beta right now, but I'm hoping it'll work... it'll be in a new post, so I can edit it easier...

Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2013, 06:07:40 PM »
Proposal: Waste Breakdown and Reclamation System... sadly, as I see it, it requires two characters, unless someone found a way to get into both Contractor and Shadowright with one character.

Blueprint: Waste Breakdown and Reclamation System
Principles Necessary: KALD 101, KALD 207, ALCH 364, YGGD 212
Prestige Class: Contractor 2 (Amazing Alkahest), Shadowright 2 (Xanthous Xception)
Explanation: The WBRS (I really need a cooler name for this...) takes an input of any object, and breaks it down (as per Amazing Alkahest), in order to pick out the pure components of the object placed inside of it.

The WRBS requires a container (likely a square prism, but that's simply my preference), with four layers (from top to bottom, 1 through 4):
-The container, first, is made of yellow, orange, blue, and red filters, creating a square prism with dimensions of your choice (but certainly much taller than it is wide or long, and with a maximum height the maximum diameter of your YGGD 212 bubble, and a minimum height of 19'). The width and length are decided by the size of your Phlogiston cube. On one tall face (side), you must leave a small window in Layer 2, and you must leave a small window on Layer 1 (the top face), though having a way to close those windows is a necessity (using a smaller preparation of those four Filters on some sort of hinged apparatus is preferable).
-On the bottom of Layer 4is a cube of Phlogiston (of a maximum size of Medium (from what I can tell, 4'-8' to an edge, I recommend 4' wide by 4' long by 8' tall), and this layer is just as deep as your cube; it needs no spare space around it. It is separated from Layer 3 by yellow, blue, and orange filters, so that only the heat from the Phlogiston may pass through.
-Layer 3 is initially empty. This layer is only a few inches deep, and serves to catch the Alkahest. It is separated from Layer 2 with a yellow filter prepared with Xanthous Xception - Alkahest.
-Layer 2 is also initially empty, though it is 5 feet tall, at a minimum, and 5' taller for each size category above medium your Phlogiston is. It is separated from Layer 1 with a Red filter. You must have a way to seal off Layer 1 from Layer 2 with relation to an Alkahest Solution, which I would use a mobile Blue filter for (you can slide it in and out of the WBRS by attaching it to a rod and having a slit in the tall face with which to move it; as a Wall of Force, it is approximately 1/16" thick.
-Layer 1 is the same size as Layer 2, though it begins filled with a solution of Alkahest in Layer 1 (add the water and Alkahest through the hole in the top face).

To use the WBRS, add your object through the hole in the top face, and close it. When it is done dissolving, remove the blue filter, allowing the solution (which is now Alkahest + your object of choice) to fall into Layer 2. Add the Blue filter once more. The Phlogiston boils off the water from the solution, which returns your object (now in nice, easy-to-handle, dissolved and separated chemical components) to solid state along with the Alkahest. The Alkahest falls into Layer 3, while the water vapor rises back into Layer 1. The water vapor condenses as it cools (isolated from the Phlogiston by the Red Filter), returning to liquid state in Layer 1, and refilling that chamber. Once all of the water has boiled off, feel free to reach into Layer 2 (with your heat protection of choice) to retrieve your object's components, and place them wherever you need them. Next, reach back into Layer 2, then through the Yellow filter into Layer 3, to remove your Alkahest. Return your Alkahest into Layer 1 (with the top opening), allow it to dissolve, and you may begin breaking down more.

At your disposal, you can use the aforementioned YGGD principle to simply reverse gravity and cause the Alkahest to "fall" into the water (make sure the top opening is sealed!), because your Phlogiston is sealed in with the Yellow filters. You just need to return gravity to normal before you run the WBRS again.

Offline Amechra

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2013, 06:14:30 PM »
That is... brilliant.

Seriously, the mechanics of that thing... gorgeous.
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2013, 06:25:51 PM »
That is... brilliant.

Seriously, the mechanics of that thing... gorgeous.
Thank you! I'm glad that my first Blueprint seems to have gone over well...

Offline Nanshork

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2013, 12:21:36 AM »
Kellus needs to come  back and work on Xenoalchemy some more.   :p

Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2013, 02:38:31 AM »
Heh, I need to make more Blueprints... >w< but I just don't have free time...

Offline Geigan

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2013, 09:25:34 AM »
Quote from: Geigan
Hello, one of my groups recently started a gestalt gramarie campaign and I expect it to devolve unto utter insanity be a lot of fun once we get started. As one can imagine I ran into a bit of confusion since I'm just trying this out for the first time, so I hope no one minds if I deposit some questions here to work out my understanding.

I was reading the ELDK principles and got a bit confused over some inconsistency with the engine specifications once I sat down to start mathing out push, speed, and bulk possibilities. The target listing for the 101 principle's engine specifies 1 cubic foot of material, which presumably creates the engine from my reading of the first sentence. Later on though when specifying an example for the bulk chart, a single simple orthogonal engine(which this principle presumably creates) is comes in at 8 cubic feet. This understandably leaves me stumped as to what the correct bulk calculations for the engine are, since the target listing and the example are different. Is this a typo or did I miss something that explained the difference? Is the construction of a simple orthogonal engine more time intensive than it appears at first, meaning instead of 1 preparation one must make eight at a time before they can complete it? Judging from the rest of the principles the example actually seems rather out of place if it was meant to be an exception, since the other engines don't actually have listed bulks or dimensions beyond the target listings.

Another question stems from looking at those other principles as well. Each one has the line, "This principle works like ELDK 101, but you can also build the following engines:" I was curious if this meant that by preparing those later engines you could also build simple orthogonal engines with them. If so it raises questions about the exact mechanics of the preparations, as the target listings in those principles can often be higher in volume than the original ELDK 101 principle. Would such volume changes essentially work as if you had prepared ELDK 101 multiple times to fill such a volume, thereby increasing the amount of push you can get out of it(assuming you fuel it correctly of course)? Admittedly the actual benefit of using higher principles to prepare engines this way is only to save time, but it'd be nice to know if it's a possible trick for later.

Speaking of higher ELDK principles, is the target listing of material for these higher principle engines the minimum amount of material required to get the engines listed running? I assume the answer is yes, but didn't want to assume.

I wanted to be extra sure of this in case I'd missed some problem with the control mechanism, but one can control the activation or motion of an eldrikinetic engine with Logical Decision(s) right? For example, assuming I have a ballistic engine prepared and charged, can I activate it, aim it, and fire it at a target entirely through a logical decision or do I actually have to wield it for part of that? Can one do the same for a simple orthogonal engine, deciding its direction and just letting it go without having to worry about someone having to steer? In the opposite vein, can one activate a ballistic engine without a heuristical circuit involved as a normal ranged weapon? Can you hand your friend a prepped engine and have them fire it at targets without needing the ability to make logical decisions in its circuit, or is the line about them being weapons only meant to apply to their enchant/enhance-ability?

My last question involves transformers, and though specifically wondering about the iron transformer I suppose it might apply to other types as well. Particularly do things(creatures, objects, and otherwise contiguous items or events) need to be fully or mostly(50%+?) in an input's bubble to have ebbs converted from them? For instance, assume an object in an iron input's bubble that is bigger than the actual bubble itself. Does the entire thing get halted, just the momentum in the part affected by the bubble, or none of it? What happens if only a portion of the object is inside it? My guess would be that it has to be entirely inside it for it to work correctly, but hell if I know for sure.

Speaking of transformers, does anyone know any simple ways to create "batteries" for puissance generated from inputs that can be used to power other projects/machines later easily? A heuristical circuit hooking up the "battery" to what needs to be powered is simple enough for my needs, but I wasn't sure if there were easier/more efficient means of transfer.

Yggdratectural question relating to restrictions on engines' ability to propel themselves through a portal to a semi-space. I know an engine can only generate push on the dimension it has 50% of itself on at least, but presumably the push they generate on either side can move them the rest of the way through a portal right? Example, you have a simple orthogonal engine chugging along and suddenly it hits a portal. Does it just halt because it can't push itself on both sides of the portal or does it keep going, propelling itself through and presumably on the other side as well in relatively the same direction it was going before the dimension change? (Lets assume the object to which the thing's heuristical circuit was anchored was also propelled along with the engine)

Same question regarding a ballistics engine. Say you generate push on one side speeding up your projectile. Does the object slow down once leaving a dimension because the push doesn't carry over or does it just keep going since the push is done once it's sped the object up? I don't see much practical application for firing through a semi-space portal considering the concealment and such, but I thought it'd be interesting to know.

Aside from thanking whoever manages to answer all that ahead of time, I'd also like to thank Kellus for putting together such an interesting system. I think my group will have fun with it unless (or maybe even if) the madness claims us first. :smallwink:
Repost from GitP in case someone who can answer would be over here also.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2013, 06:00:27 PM »
Just letting you guys know that there's now #Gramarie on irc.rizon.net
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2014, 04:23:49 PM »
Just letting you guys know that there's now #Gramarie on irc.rizon.net
I should really spend more time on IRC.

Offline Agrippa

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2014, 06:13:06 PM »
I've read mentions of gramarie principal skill checks, but I haven't seen any preparation DCs at all. Why is this?

Offline Grek

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Re: WE're Discussing SCIENCE here, friends! [Discussion Thread]
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2015, 05:42:28 PM »
The new version no longer does preparation DCs. Your ranks sets your maximum number of principles known via a pointbuy system and the skill check itself just decides how fast you prepare the principle.